nia 


UNIVERSITY  OF  CALIFORNIA 
AT  LOS  ANGELES 


Tth  Congress,  )  SENATE.  (  Document 

2d  Session.      \       ■  ,    "^  {     No.  36.- 


NEW  STATEHOOD  BILL. 


HEARINGS  BEFORE   THE   SUBCOMMITTEE  OF   THE  COMMITTEE 

TERRITORIES  ON  HOUSE  BILL  1254:],  TO  ENABLE  THE  PEOPLE 

OF  OKLAHOMA.  ARIZONA,  AND  NEW  MEXICO  TO  FORM 

CONSTITUTIONS  AND  STATE  GOVERN.MENTS  AND 

BE  ADMITTED  tNTO  THE  UNION  ON  AN 

EQUAL  FOOTING  WITH   THE 

ORIGINAL  STATES. 


December  10,  1902. — Submitted  by  Mr.  Beveiidge  and  ordered  to  be  printed. 


WASHINGTON: 

GOVERNMENT    PRINTING   OFFICE. 
1902. 


TERRITORY  OF  NEW  MEXICO. 


Pursuant  to  Senate  resolution  No.  282,  adopted  June  27,  1002.  a 
subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Territories  of  the  United  States 
Senate  assembled  at  Chicago  on  November  10,  1902,  and  proceeded 
to  New  Mexico  Territory,  Arizona  Territory,  Oklahoma  Territor}^, 
and  Indian  Territory  for  the  purpose  of  investigatino-  conditions 
relative  to  the  admission  of  said  Territories  to  statehood.  The  sub- 
committee was  composed  of  Senator  Beveridge  (chairman),  Senator 
Dillingham,  Senator  Burnham,  and  Senator  Heitfeld,  Senator  Heit- 
feld  joining  the  part}'  en  route  before  reaching  New  Mexico. 

Castaneda  Hotel,  East  Lasvegas,  N.  Mex.,  Wednesday,  November 
12,  1902,  2  o'clock  p.  m.  The  committee  began  the  hearing  of  testi- 
at  the  above-named  place  on  the  above  date. 

Albert  D.  Ogborn.  the  official  stenographer  for  the  subcommittee, 
was,  prior  to  the  hearing  of  testimonv,  duly  sworn  to  faithfully, 
accurately,  and  honestly  take  down  and  transcribe  the  hearings  of  the 
subcommittee. 

Judge  William  J.  Mills,  the  first  witness  called  bv  the  committee^ 
first  having  been  dul}'  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 
J  Q.  Please  state  your  name,  and  tell  the  committee  of  what  court  or 
^  courts  you  are  the  judge. — A.  My  name  is  William  J.  Mills.  I  am 
j  chief  justice  of  the  supreme  court  of  New  ^Mexico  and  judge  of  the 
^  fourth  judicial  district,  composed  of  the  counties  of  San  Miguel,  Mora, 
Colfax,  Union,  and  Guadalupe. 

Q.  Now,  in  these  counties  the  court  is  held  in  each  county,  is  it? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  and  also  the  United  States  court  is  held  in  this  district, 
in  Las  Vegas.  Each  county,  as  provided  under  the  law.  is  allowed  to 
hold  court  in  the  separate  counties,  and  the  law  of  the  Territory  pro- 
vides that  two  terms  of  court  shall  be  held  in  each  county  of  the  dis- 
trict everv  3'ear.  Under  the*  laws  of  the  Territory  two  terms  of  the 
court  are  supposed  to  be  held  in  each  count}'  each  year,  and  these  are 
paid  for  by  the  county.  Each  county  levies  a  tax  for  a  court  fund, 
and  the  expenses  of  the  courts  are  paicl  out  of  the  court  funds  collected 
in  the  several  counties.  There  has  always  been  money  enough  to  do 
this  in  the  four  years  that  I  have  been  judge,  except  in  Guadalupe 
County.  In  that  county  we  always  held  one  term,  until  the  Rock 
Island  Railroad  was  built  there;  and.  of  course,  fi-om  it  being  built 
through  the  county  and  the  ritfrafi'  naturally  brought  in  as  the  result 
of  its  being  l)uilt.  there  has  been  more  criminal  business,  and  the  new 
propertA'  in  the  county  has  not  been  taxed:  and  in  that  county  we  have- 
not  had  any  term  of  court  this  year.  Mv  predecessor  only  held  one 
term  during  the  four  years  that  he  was  here. 


2  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

MEANING    OF   TERMS    "  MEXICAN "    AND    "AMERICAN." 

Q.  Tiike  tlio  r()UMtio>;  county  by  county  and  tell  the  eonnnittee  the 
relative  diti'erenee  in  the  pe()i)le  down  here;  I  mean  by  that  the  diHer- 
ence  in  the  races,  the   relative  proportions  of  each. — A.  The  ten 
"'American"  includes  everybod}-  that  is  not  a  "Mexican;"  and  in  th- 
county,  San  Alio-uel — I  have  not  looked  at  the  census — the  largest  pai 
of  the  American  popuhition  is  in  the  towns — East  Lasvegas,  Las  Vegat 
and  the  other  towns.     Some  Americans  have  been  here  ever  since  tli   " 
American  occupation,  and  they  are  not  as  good  citizens,  I  think,  t 
the  native  Mexicans.     San  Miguel  County,  which  is  the  largest  count 
in  the  district,  1  should  say — of  course  this  is  not  accurate — I  believ< 
though,  that  there  are  about  6,000  that  might  be  called  Americai 
in  it. 

Q.  And  how  many  Mexicans  "^ — A.  And  I  think  there  must  be  aboi 
14.000  or  1.5,000. 

Q.  Now  i)lease  give  us  each  county  in  its  turn. — A.  Mora  County, 
I  do  not  remember  the  population,  but  that  very  largely  predominates 
of  Mexicans.  The  Americans  live  principally  at  Watrous  and  Shoe- 
maker, and  along  the  line  of  the  new  railroad  which  goes  through  the 
countv.  There  are  a  larger  percentage  of  the  Mexicans  than  in  this 
county.  And  in  Colfax  County  I  think  that  three-quarters  of  the  peo- 
ple there  are  Americans.  In  fact,  in  Colfax  Countj^  we  sometimes  hold 
a  term  of  court  there  without  a  Mexican  on  the  jury  at  all. 

Q.  How  about  Union  County? — A.  There  is  a  predominance  of 
Mexicans.  In  the  northern  part  of  that  county  I  think  the  Americans 
predominate.  In  Guadalupe  County,  previous  to  the  building  of  the 
Kock  Island  Kailroad,  there  were  some  American  storekeepers  and 
some  men  running  their  Hocks  and  herds.  Since  the  railroad  came  I 
think  that  it  has  brought  in  a  larger  number  of  Americans,  but  before 
that  I  think  perhaps  hve-sixths  of  them  were  ]Mexicans. 

INTERPRETER   IN    COURTS. 

Q.  Now.  about  your  court,  Judge.  Do  you  have  an  interpreter?^ 
A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  have  an  interpreter  in  each  count}'? — A.  No,  sir;  only 
the  one  in  the  district.     I  have  liad  him  for  three  years  and  a  half. 

Q.  Now.  the  work  of  the  interpreter  consists  of  interpreting  th 
testimony  of  witnesses  and  the  arguments  of  counsel? — A.  Yes,  sii 
the  arguments  of  counsel  and  instructions  of  the  court  to  the  jury.  ' 
Colfax  County  1  have  not  needed  him  .sometimes;  in  the  other  countie 
I  have  had  to  use  him  constantly.  The  Americans  are  busy,  and  the 
always  like  to  try  to  keep  off  the  juries. 

Q.  What  is  the  proportion  of  cases  in  which  the  interpreter  is  en 
ployed? — A.  I  seldom  have  an  interpreter  except  in  the  sessions  c 
the  court.  Under  the  laws  of  the  Territory  the  court  is  always  opei 
ajid  in  cases  heard  in  chambers,  and  where  a  juiT  is  waived,  there  is 
large  ])roporti()n  of  them  tried  without  an  interpreter. 

Q.  How  about  the  jury  cases?— A.  I  do  not  think  I  have  tried  a 
dozen  civil  cases  with  a  jury.  In  some  of  the  civil  cases  tried  before 
me  I  have  not  needed  him.  In  all  of  the  criminal  cases  I  have  had  to 
have  hiuL 

Q.  In  reference  to  a  jury  in  the  jur}'  room  in  making  up  their  ver- 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  3 

diets  after  cases  have  been  submitted  to  tliem,  are  tlie  services  of  an 
interpreter  required  in  the  jury  room!; — A.  No,  sir;  I  never  have  an 
interpreter  in  the  jur}^  room.  There  are  always  lots  of  men  on  juries 
that  speak  both  languages. 

Q,  And  do  they  interpret  it  between  themselves? — A,  I  presume  so; 
yes,  sir. 

Q.  When  you  try  civil  cases  that  require  the  testimony  of  witnesses, 
what  is  the  fact  about  the  use  of  an  interpreter  in  those  cases  ? — A.  Well, 
in  some  cases  we  have  them,  but  I  think  in  a  very  large  proportion  of 
cases  we  do  not  need  them.  Perhaps  it  is  because  the  Americans  liti- 
gate more,  or  have  more  proport}"  to  litigate  over. 

Q.  1  believe  you  said  you  did  not  have  more  than  a  dozen  civil  cases 
tried  before  a  jury  in  four  vears? — A.  Yes  sir.  I  have  disposed  of 
1,477  cases  in  this  district  in  the  first  two  years;  that  is,  dismissals 
and  trials. 

JURY   CASES   MOSTLY    CRIMINAL. 

Q.  What  is  the  nature  of  the  most  of  the  cases  you  have  before  a 
jury  ^ — A.  Well,  as  I  have  stated,  the  most  of  them  are  the  criminal 
cases.  There  are,  of  coui"se,  some  murder  cases.  We  have  never  had  a 
conviction  here  in  the  first  degree;  we  have  had  a  very  considerable 
number  of  second-degree  cases,  and  some  third-degree  cases.  We 
have  had  a  number  of  cattle-stealing  cases,  against  which  the  laws  are 
very  severe.  We  have  tried  one  man.  in  LTnion  County,  who  assaulted 
a  train,  and  on  the  trial  he  was  convicted  and  hung.  He  shot  a  mail 
clerk  through  the  mouth,  and  the  conductor,  and  was  captured  and 
hung. 

Q.  What  is  the  nature  of  a  majority  of  the  criminal  cases  ? — A.  There 
are  some  robberies,  but  very  few;  and  cattle-stealing  cases,  there  were 
a  great  many  of  those,  but  practically  that  industry  has  stopped  in 
the  Territor}',  at  least  in  this  district.  Nearly  all  the  guilt}'  parties  are 
either  in  the  penitentiary  or  afraid  to  go  ahead.  But  it  is  like  any- 
where— assaults  and  all  kinds  of  cases.  The  United  States  court  is  in 
session,  and  to-morrow  we  are  going  to  try  some  people  for  robbing  a 
post-oflice  in  the  southern  part  of  Guadalupe  County.  After  that 
trial  is  over  they  will  be  tried  for  murder,  for  it  is  alleged  the}'  killed 
a  boy  in  the  robbery. 

DUTIES   OF    INTERPRETER. 

Q.  1  understand  the  use  of  an  interpreter  is  to  interpret  the  testi- 
mony, to  interpret  the  charge  of  the  court  to  the  jury,  and  to  interpret 
the  argument  of  counsel  to  the  jury. — A.  Yes,  sir;  to  interpret 
everything  to  the  jury  that  it  is  necessary  for  them  to  know. 

Q.  How  many  counsel  have  you  here  in  your  court,  at  Las  Vegas? — 
A.  I  do  not  remember  exactly;  I  think  between  fifteen  and  twenty, 
somewhere. 

Q.  And  in  these  other  counties,  how  many? — A.  In  Colfax  County 
there  are  a  considerable  number,  perhaps  a  dozen;  in  Union  County 
there  are  four  or  five.  The  lawyers  here  go  to  these  other  counties. 
In  Mora  County  there  are  none;  in  Guadalupe  County  there  are  now 
three  or  four.  Before  the  Rock  Island  Railroad  went  there,  there 
were  no  lawyers  there. 

Q.  The  lawyers  are  mostly  Americans,  are  they  ? — A.  They  are  all 


4  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Americans,  with  perhaps  three  exceptions.  Of  course,  the  Mexican 
lawyers  talk  Enolisli  as  well  as  we  do.  We  have  no  Mexican  lawyers 
in  (/olfax  County. 

Q.  Would  it  be  inconvenient  for  the  connnittee  to  inspect  your 
dockets  this  afternoon^ — A.  No,  sir;  not  at  all.  The  clerk  is  down- 
stairs. We  can  brino-  the  dockets  and  court  records  both.  We  keep 
the  civil  records  and  criminal  records.  There  will  be  twelve  or  tit'teen 
books.  I  think.  There  is  at  the  present  time  but  very  little  crime  in  this 
district,  except  in  the  eastern  part  of  Guadalupe  County,  neartheTexas 
border,  where  the  Texas  Rangers  drive  the  people  over  here  and  wo 
have  to  drive  them  ])ack. 

William  J.  Mills. 

NEroMUCENO  Segura,  first  having  ])een  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  M}^  name  is 
Nepomuceno  Segura. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  the  Territoiy? — A.  I  have  lived  all 
my  life  in  the  Territory. 

Q.  How  old  are  you? — A.  I  was  born  in  1853,  at  Sante  Fe,  N.  Mex. 

Q.   And  you  are  the  court  interpreter  here? — A.  I  am;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  court  interpreter  is  appointed  by  the  judge  of  the  court? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

WHAT    COURT   INTERPRETER    DOES. 

Q.  Will  you  describe  to  the  committee  the  duties — the  nature  of 
3'our  duties  in  that  office ?^ — A.  Yes,  sir.  The  nature  of  ui}'  duties  are 
to  interpret  from  P^nglish  into  Spanish  all  evidence  given  before  the 
court.  There  are  very  manj^  Spanish-speaking  people  that  come 
before  the  court  as  defendants  and  witnesses,  and  I  have  to  interpret 
both  ways — from  the  Spanish  into  the  English  and  from  the  English 
into  the  Spanish;  also  the  arguments  of  counsel,  l)oth  into  English  and 
Spanish.     That  is  the  amount  of  the  duties  of  a  court  interpreter. 

Q.  That  is,  both  the  arguments  to  the  court  and  the  jury? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  both  to  the  court  and  the  jury. 

The  juries  are  made  up  of  Spanish-speaking  and  non-English-speak- 
ing people,  are  they? — A.  Oh,  mind  you,  here  in  this  county  here 
this  is  a  very  large  Spanish-speaking  people,  and  we  have  here  about 
two  to  one  Spanish-speaking  members  of  the  jury  to  the  English 
speaking. 

Q.  Do  the  Spanish-speaking  people  speak  English? — A.  Some  of 
them  do  ;ind  some  of  them  do  not. 

IN    JURY    ROOM. 

Q.  Now.  as  to  the  work  in  the  jury  room,  jonv  services  are  not 
required  in  the  juiy  room,  are  they^ — A.  No,  sir;  except  in  very 
strenuous  cases.  No,  sir;  except  in  very  exceptional  cases.  In  two 
cases  I  have  found  that  I  had  to  go  in  the  jury  room  and  interpret  for 
them.  This  was  necessary  when  there  was  a  portion  of  Spanish- 
speaking  members  and  a  portion  of  English-speaking  members  and 
neither  of  them  speaking  the  other  language,  and  the  courts  thought 


NEW    STATEKOOD    BILL.  0 

it  was  pvopor  for  the   intorpvoter  to  oo  into  the   room  so  that  tliey 
could  interpret,  and  the  nienihcu's  of  the  jury  know  what  waso'oino- on. 
Q.  There  is  g-enerall>'  on  each  jiny,  is  there,  some  member  who 
speaks  both  Uinguages? — A.  Oh,  3'es;  3'cs,  sir, 

NATURE    OF    CASES. 

Q.  But  in  the  majority  of  the  cases  in  which  your  services  are 
required — what  is  the  the  nature  of  the  majority  of  the  cases  in  which 
your  services  are  required? — A.  Well,  the  majority  of  them  are 
criminal  cases,  because  I  act  as  interpreter  both  for  the  Ihiited  States 
court  and  for  the  Territorial  courts;  you  understand  they  are  l)oth 
separate  courts,  of  course. 

Q,  From  your  observation  as  interpreter,  what  is  the  nature  of 
most  of  the  criminal  cases  in  which  your  services  are  required;  that  is 
to  say:  Here  are  a  number  of  criminal  cases,  some  are  for  one  crime, 
some  another,  and  some  another.  Will  you  give  the  committee  the 
proportions,  as  nearly  as  you  can,  of  the  various  crimes  from  which 
the  cases  spring? — A.  Well,  in  speaking  of  the  United  States  side  of 
the  court,  the  majorit}'  of  the  cases  of  late  years  have  been  under  the 
Edmunds  law;  that  has  been  the  majority  of  cases. 

Q.  That  is  the  Mormon  law,  the  anti-polygamy  law? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
and  then  there  is  the  cases  for  cutting  timber,  etc. 

Q.  The  majority  of  cases  under  the  Edmunds  law  has  been  due  to 
the  influx  of  the  Mormon  population? — A.  No;  I  do  not  believe  so.  I 
do  not  believe  tliat  the  cause  of  the  majorit}^  of  these  cases  being  pre- 
dominant in  court  is  on  that  account,  but  it  generally  takes  its  cause. 
Generally  it  comes  from  the  lower  strata  of  our  people  (and  when  I 
say  "our  people"  I  mean  the  Mexican  people)  that  are  brought  before 
the  court  under  that  law.  Those  are  the  people  that  come  under  that 
law,  generally. 

Q.  What  are  the  propoi'tions  for  larceny,  grand  and  petit? — A. 
Well,  that  would  be  under  the  Territorial  laws,  in  the  Territorial 
courts. 

CASES   UNDER   ANTI-MORMON    LAW. 

Q.  Well,  give  the  remainder  of  the  proportions  in  the  United  States 
court.  You  have  given  the  larger  pi'oportion  as  being  under  the  anti- 
]Mormon  law;  now,  then,  give  the  other  proportions. — A.  Well,  there 
is  very  little  to  say  in  that  case;  there  is  veiy  little  business  on  the 
Ignited  States  side  of  the  court. 

Q.  Going  to  the  Territorial  side,  then,  give  the  proportion  of  the 
crimes  which  causes  the  cases. — A.  Well,  larcen}'  comes  tirst;  that  is, 
I  think,  the  largest  proportion  of  cases  larceny  cases.  There  are 
some  murder  cases,  and  in  our  district  here  we  have  had  very  little, 
very  few  cases  of  that  nature — of  murder  cases. 

Q.  What  would  you  sav,  at  a  rough  estimate,  would  be  the  numl)er 
of  criminal  cases  you  have  had,  both  in  the  Territorial  and  the  United 
States  courts  within  the  last  four  years,  if  you  can  make  an  estimate, 
a  rough  one,  of  course? — A.  I  could  hardly  answer  that,  but  it  seems 
to  me  that  the  proportion  would  be  about  40  per  cent. 

Q.  About  40  per  cent  of  all  the  cases? — A.  Yes.  sir;  of  all  cases  is 
criminal  cases;  and  that  might  be  divided  among  all  classes  of  people. 

Q.  Now  take,  for  instance,  in  this  countj^,  what  is  the  proportion? — 


6  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

A.  Take,  for  instance — we  are,  in  this  county — we  are  an  extraordinary 
county,  so  far  as  members  is  concerned — the  Mexican  is.  1  may  say 
we  are  three  to  one,  more  than  that  even,  in  this  county,  and  generally 
in  this  district.  This  is  the  fourth  district.  We  have  live  counties 
in  this  district — San  Miguel,  Mora.  Guadalupe,  Union,  and  Colfax 
counties. 

PROPORTION    OF    CRIMES. 

Q.  Now,  will  3"ou  take  up  these  counties  in  their  turn  and  give  3'our 
estimate  as  to  the  propoitions  of  the  population,  native  and  foreign, 
and  kind  of  cases  that  predominate  in  each  county  i — A.  I  will  take 
San  Miguel,  which  is  the  largest,  I  think,  in  New  Mexico.  We  have 
that  proportion  of  y)eople  here.  Now.  having  that  proportion  of  peo- 
ple here — of  Mexican  people  here — foreign  element  you  would  call  it — 
the  Mexican  element,  so  called,  won't  come  up  to  half  of  the  criminal 
proportion  in  the  courts. 

Q.  Take  these  counties  that  you  have  named  and  give  the  propor- 
tion; lirst  the  proportion  of  native,  or  so-called  Mexican  population, 
and  the  proportion  of  foreign  and  so-called  American  population  in  the 
count3^ — A.  Well,  that  is  what  I  was  coming  to.  1  think  that  the 
proportion  would  ])e,  if  you  want  me  to  give  in  all  of  the  district,  it  is 
just  about  the  same:  just  about  the  same  throughout,  because  there  is 
only  one  county  in  this  district,  Avhich  is  Colfax  County,  wherein  we 
have,  1  believe,  a  predominance  of  so-called  American  population. 

Q.  That  is  the  count}"  in  which  Raton  is  situated? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  is  a  railroad  town? — A.  Yes,  sir.  That  would  be  about 
m}"  statement.  I  think  it  would  hardly  be  half  of  the  proportion  thrown 
on  to  us — against  the  Mexican  population,  the  native  population.  I 
say  we,  because  I  am  a  Mexican. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  In  other  words,  the  Americans  would  be  concerned  in  fully  half 
of  the  criminal  cases? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  think  so. 

William  E.  Gortner,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Please  >tate  your  name,  residence,  and  age. — A.  William  E. 
Gortner;  East  Lasvegas,  N.  Mex.;  I  am  40  years  old. 

Q.  How"  long  have  3"ou  been  the  court  reporter  here  ? — A.  Well,  oti' 
and  on.  for  about  ten  years. 

Q.  You  mean  the  stenographer  in  the  court  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  take  stenography  in  Spanish? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not. 

Q.  Do  you  take  the  testimony  of  witnesses  as  we  do  in  other 
courts? — A.  Yes,  sir;  just  the  same  as  in  other  courts. 

Q.  You  take  it,  then,  from  the  interpreter,  do  3'ou? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
where  the  testimony  has  to  be  interpreted. 

one    county   with    ENGLISH-SPEAKING    JURY. 

Q.  Do  \"ou  recollect  the  case  where  some  member  of  the  jury  was 
not  Spanish-speaking? — A.  Well.  I  take  down  and  have  in  the  five 
counties  in  the  fourth  judicial  district — there  is  not  but  one  county 
in  this  district  where  we  have  an  English-speaking  jury,  and  that  is 
Colfax  Count}'. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    KILL.  i 

Q.  In  all  of  the  others  they  arc  Spani.sh-.spcakino-  juries? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  So  that  in  all  the  cases  in  which  you  transcribe  the  testimony  of 
witnesses  it  has  been  from  an  interpreter? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  would  like 
to  explain;  under  the  law  here  there  is  a  o-reat  many  cases  that  can  be 
tried  in  chambers  before  the  judo-e. 

MIXED    JURIES. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  You  mean  to  say  that  you  have  mixed  juries  in  these  four  coun- 
ties?— A.  Well,  in  the  county  of  Mora,  which  is  about  3(»  miles  north 
of  here,  the  juries,  both  the  g-rand  and  the  petit  jury — they  have  24  men 
on  the  petit  jury,  so  that  when  one  jury  is  out  they  can  use  another — 
and  out  of  the  24  in  that  county,  proliably  two  Americans,  the  balance 
Mexicans.  In  this  county  sav  about,  out  of  the  24  petit  jurors,  six 
Americans.  The  Americans  always  try  to  get  oH'  the  jury,  and  the 
Mexicans  want  to  serve.    The}^  want  to  get  the  $2  a  da}^,  and  mileage. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Now  on  these  juries  there  are  men  of  all  ages  down  to  what,  on 
the  average? — A.  Well,  the  qualification  is  above  the  age  of  21  and 
under  the  age  of  60. 

Q.  Now,  the  Mexicans  from  21  up  to  35  require  an  interpreter? — 
A.  Yes,  sir,  they  do. 

Secundino  Romero,  first  having  been  dul}^  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q,  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
Secundino  Romero. 

Q.  What  official  position  have  you  held? — A.  I  am  clerk  of  the  dis- 
trict court  for  the  fourth  judicial  district  of  New  Mexico  Territory. 

Q.  What  counties  compose  that  district? — A.  The  counties  of 
Miguel,  Colfax,  Union,  Mora,  Guadalupe. 

Q.  Have  you  present  with  you  some  of  the  records,  dockets,  and 
order  books  of  that  court? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  kindly  furnish  to  the  committee  a  list  of  the  grand  and 
petit  juries  w^ho  served  in  the  counties  comprising  the  fourth  judicial 
district,  beginning  with  the  fall  terms  of  court,  1900,  and  ending  with 
the  fall  terms  of  lt)02,  and  also  a  list  of  indictments  returned  by  the 
grand  juries  in  said  counties  during  the  same  period,  and  make  the 
same  a  part  of  your  evidence? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  will  furnish  them  as 
soon  as  possible. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

The  list  of  juries  and  indictments  furnished  by  the  last-named  wit- 
ness, which  are  a  part  of  his  testimonv,  is  hereto  attached  as 
Plxhibit  "A." 

Miss  Georgia  Murray,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Please  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Miss  Georgia 
Murray. 


S  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  Arc  3'ou  a  native  of  New  Mexico? — A.  No,  sir;  1  am  not. 

Q.  Where  do  you  come  from? — A.  1  am  a  native  of  Wisconsin. 

Q.  How  long  nave  you  been  here? — A.  This  is  the  third  year. 

Q.  You  teach  in  the  schools  of  Las  Vegas? — A.  In  Las  Vegas;  yes, 
sir. 

Q.  How  many  children  do  you  have  in   that  school  there? — A.  I 

think  there  are  151  enrolled.     I  am  not  the  principal,  3'^ou  know. 

Q.  Who  is  the  principal? — A.  Mr.  Armijo. 

Q.  Of  what  department  do  you  have  charge? — A.  Of  the  higher 
grades — the  fourth,  tifth,  sixth,  and  so  on. 

Q.  How  many  pupils  have  you  under  you? — A.  I  have  27. 

Q.  Boys  and  girls  both? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  About  what  proportion  ? — A.  Eleven  girls  and  16  bo3\s. 

STUDIES   IN   HIGHER   GRADES. 

Q.  And  what  do  you  teach  in  those  higher  grades? — A.  Reading, 
writing,  arithmetic,  spelling,  language,  physical  culture,  and  geog- 
I'aphy. 

Q.  You  teach  English  in  those  higher  grades? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.   And  no  Spanish? — A.  No,  sir;  no  Spanish. 

Q.  And  how  old  are  the  pupils,  on  the  average? — A.  The  average 
age,  1  judge,  was  13  and  l-l. 

WHAT   THE   PUPILS   SPEAK. 

Q.  And  when  they  come  to  you  from  the  lower  grades,  do  the.y 
speak  perfect  English  or  only  broken  English? — A.  No,  sir;  they  do 
not;  they  speak  l^roken  English.  The  fourth  grade  is  the  lowest 
grade.     Some  of  them  speak  it  ver}^  poorlv,  but  they  understand  it. 

Q.  Do  the}' acquire  it  perfectly  before  they  get  out  ? — A.  Now,  that 
is  a  hard  question. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  teaching  here? — A.  Two  years;  that 
is,  this  is  my  second  year;  1  have  only  taught  two  months  of  my 
second  year. 

Q.  So  you  have  really  taught  but  one  year? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  did 
pi-actice  work  in  the  normal  one  year.  In  the  public  schools  onW  one 
3'ear,  and  onl}^  two  months  over. 

TENDENCY   TO   DROP   ENGLISH. 

Q.  So  that  you  can  hardly  say.  from  your  knowledge,  that  they 
have  perfect  English? — A.  No;  they  have  not  perfect  English. 

Q.  Have  you  had  an  opportunity  to  observe  them  when  the}'  get 
out  of  school,  whether  they  keep  up  the  English  or  not? — A.  Do  you 
mean  on  the  playground? 

Q.  Yes,  and  at  home  and  in  life  ? — A.  There  is  a  tendency  to  drop 
the  English. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  Please  tell  us  what  proportion  of  those  of  the  lower  grades  who 
were  Spanish-speaking  pupils  come  up  in  your  grades,  if  you  know. — 
A.  All  of  theuL 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  V 

By  Senator  Heitfelu. 
Q.  What  school  do   the  American   pupils  attend? — A.    East  Las 
Veg-a.s;  there  are  two  districts  in  the  old  town. 
And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Miss  Francesca  Zana,  tirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testilied  as 
follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Please  state  your  name  to  tTie  committee.— A.  Miss  Francesca 
Zana. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  of  this  Territory? — A.  Yes,  sir.  ^ 

Q.   Were  you  born  here  in  Las  Vegas? — A.  Yes,  sir;  in  Las  Vegas. 

Q.  Were  "you  born  in  East  or  W^est  Las  Vegas? — A.  In  West  Las 
Vegas. 

Q.  In  the  old  town  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.   And  vou  are  teaching  there  now? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Of  what  branches  do  you  have  charge?— A.  I  have  charge  of 
the  kindergarten. 

Q.  And  the  superintendent  has  the  intermediate  grades? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  the  principal. 

Q.  And  Miss  Murray  has  the  higher  grades? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  many  children  have  you  under  you? — A.  1  have  82. 

STUDIES   IN    LOWER    GRADES. 

Q.  What  do  you  teach  them — what  are  the  things  that  you  teach? — 
A.  I  teach  them  reading,  writing,  spelling,  and  arithmetic. 

Q.  Is  any  of  your  teaching  in  Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  teach  them 
in  English  and  Spanish;  I  teach  them  to  translate. 

SPANISH    AND   ENGLISH    TAUGHT. 

Q.   You  teach  both  English  and  Spanish  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  When  they  come  to  school,  what  do  they  speak? — A.  They 
generally  speak  Spanish. 

Q.  Are  there  any  of  them  who  speak  English  when  they  come  to 
school? — A.  Yes,  sir;  there  are  some. 

Q.  What  are  the  Spanish  text-books  which  you  teach  them,  if  any  i — 
A.   I  just  teach  the  lirst  reader  in  Spanish. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  the  name  of  it?^ — A.  It  is  Manella's. 

CHILDREN    AT   PLAY    USE    SPANISH. 

Q.  Have  you  noticed  the  children  at  play  ? — A.  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  What  language  do  they  use? — A.  They  generally  use  Spanish. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Enrique  Armijo,  first  having  been  first  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows : 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
Enrique  Armijo. 

Q.  How  old  are  3'ou? — A.  I  am  43  years  old. 


10  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q,  Have  you  lived  in  the  Territory  all  your  life?— A.  Yes,  sir;  I 
was  born  in  Las  Vet>"as. 

Q.  That  is  the  old  town?— A.  The  old  town;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  many  people  has  the  old  town?— A.  I  believe  there  are 
about  4.000. 

CHARACTER   OF   POPULATION. 

Q.  The  character  of  that  population  is  Spanish,  is  it  not— 1  mean 
Mexican,  as  we  term  it  ?— A.  Yes,  sir.  We  use  the  term  "Mexican ''  to 
distinguish  from  the  Ano-lo-Saxon. 

Q.  The  committee  noticed  in  driving  around  the  town  that  nearly 
all  the  signs  were  in  Spanish  where  they  have  groceries  and  meat  mar- 
kets; what  is  the  reason  for  that?— A.  The  majority  of  the  people 
talk  Spanish. 

Q.  You  are  the  superintendent  of  the  schools  there,  are  you '. — A. 
I  am  ])rincipal  of  one  of  the  schools;  j^es,  sir. 

Q.  You  teach  the  intermediate  grades,  Miss  Murray  the  higher,  and 
Miss  Zana  the  lower  grades? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  many  pupils  have  you  in  that  school?— A.   We  have  155. 

Q.  There  were  some  of  the  children  that  we  met  this  afternoon  when 
riding  about  town  who  did  not  seem  to  be  able  to  speak  English.  Do 
you  know  whether  or  not  they  were  from  your  school  ? — A.  They  were 
from  the  Christian  Brothers'  school;  they  were  not  from  my  school. 

ENGLISH   AND   SPANISH    READERS. 

Q.  What  do  vou  teach  in  your  schools?— A.  We  teach  them  both 
English  and  Spanish.  We  use  Baldwin's  readers  in  English  and 
Mantailla's  in  Spanish. 

Q.  How  high  up  do  those  grades  go  in  your  rooms? — A.  In  my 
room  thev  go  from  second  and  third  in  the  English. 

Q.  And  how  far  in  the  Spanish?— A.  In  the  Spanish,  lirst  and 
second.  The  Spanish  language,  when  they  know  it  fluently  in  the 
second  reader,  they  are  able  to  read  any  reader,  because  the  vowels 
never  change  in  Spanish. 

Q.  That  "is  the  reason  you  do  not  have  any  higher  than  that?— A. 
The  board  of  education  do  not  give  us  any  opportunity  to  teach  any- 
thing higher  than  that. 

Qr  Of  this  155  pupils  in  your  school,  are  they  Mexican  or  Ameri- 
can—that is.  in  these  two  terms  as  they  are  used  down  here  to  contra- 
distinguish the  foreign  population  from  the  native  population?  Are 
these  children  native  children,  from  the  natives  of  Las  Vegas?— A. 
Thev  are  Mexicans,  with  the  exception  of  one  Italian  girl  that  is  there, 
but  she  don't  know  any  other  language  but  a  little  English  and  Spanish. 

Q.  You  had  just  dismissed  school  this  afternoon  when  we  passed?— 
A.  Yes,  sir;  yes,  sir. 

LANGUAGE    USED   BY   CHILDREN. 

Q.  What  language  do  the  children  use  at  play?— A.  Most  of  the 
time  they  talk  Spanish,  but  some  of  the  time  they  talk  English.  They 
prefer  to  talk  in  their  mother  tongue. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  talked  English?  I  observe  that  you  talk  a 
little  bit  brokenlv;  how  long  have  vou  spoken  English? — A.  Since 
1871. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL,  11 

Q.  How  loiio-  hjive  you  been  superintendent  over  here? — A.  This  is 
the  third  year  in  this  school,  but  I  have  been  in  other  scliools. 

Q.  Where  have  .you  been  in  other  schools? — A.  In  the  lower  dis- 
trict, in  No.  1. 

Q.   Do  the  same  conditions  prevail  there? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Enrique  H.  Salasar,  first  having-  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Please  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
Enrique  H.  Salazar. 

Q.  How  old  are  you? — A.  I  was  born  in  1859;  I  am  al)out  43  years 
old. 

Q.  Are  vou  a  native  of  the  Territory  ? — A,  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  born  in  Las  Vegas? — A.   I  was  born  in  Santa  Fe. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  Las  Veg-as? — A.  For  the  last  twelve 
years. 

Q.  Y^ou  are  the  editor  of  El  Independiente? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  And  postmaster? — A,   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  your  paper  weekly  or  daily? — A.   Weekly. 

newspaper's  circulation. 

Q.  How  large  a  circulation  have  you? — A.  About  1,800,  audit  is 
published  in  Spanish. 

Q.  Is  there  any  English  paper  published  in  Las  Vegas? — A.  No, 
sir. 

Q.  What  is  the  comparati\^  circulation  in  Las  Vegas,  through  your 
post-oiBce,  of  American  and  Spanish  newspaper  publications? — A.  I 
have  been  a  newspaper  man  for  the  last*  24  years,  and  it  is  an  average 
of  10  per  cent  more  than  the  English  paper. 

Q.  In  Las  Vegas,  through  your  post-office?— A.  In  my  post-office- 
well,  I  have,  out  of  600  there,  I  have  150  of  English  paper— that  get 
the  paper. 

Q.  That  is,  your  paper? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Of  papers  published  in  English  and  papers  puldished  in  Spanish, 
what  is  the  proportion  of  those  papers  that  go  through  your  post- 
office?  You  say  you  have  a  circulation  of  1.80(>  of  yours? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  Now,  are  there  other  Spanish  papers  that  go  through  your  post- 
office? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Now,  then,  are  there  any  English  that  go  through  your  post- 
office? — A.  No,  sir;  none. 

LAS   VEGAS   EXCLUSIVELY    SPANISH. 

Q.  So  that  in  your  post-office  it  is  exclusively  Spanish? — A.  Y^es, 
sir;  as  far  as  the  newspaper  circulation  is  concerned. 

Q.  I  infer  from  that  that  the  population  of  Las  Vegas  is  practically 
a  Spanish-speaking  population?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  committee  observed,  in  driving  through  Las  Vegas,  that 
most  of  the  groceries,  meat  markets,  and  other  signs  were  Spanish 
signs;  is  that  from  the  same  reason? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 


12  NEW    STATEHOOD    KILL. 

KiciiAitD  R.  C.  Simon,  the  offic-itil  interpreter  of  the  committee,  was 
here  called,  and  took  the  following  oath,  which  was  administered  to 
him  l)y  the  chairman: 

You  do  faithfully  swear  that  you  will  faithfully  and  truly  interpret  into  English  the 
statements  of  the  witnesses  ealled  before  this  committee. 

Jesus  Maria  Tefoya,  a  Spanish-speaking  witness,  was  first  diil}^ 
sworn,  and  testified  as  follows:  (The  oath  was  administered  to  this  wit- 
ness and  his  testimony  taken  by  means  of  the  oflicial  interpreter  of 
the  connnittee.) 

B}'  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
Jesus  ^laria  Tefoya. 

Q.  How  old  are  you  ^— A.  Sixty -five  years  of  age. 

Q.  And  vou  are  a  native  of  New  Mexico^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  vou  born  in  Las  Vegas?— A.  No,  sir:  1  was  born  in 
Sante  Fe. 

Q.  How  long  have  vou  lived  in  Las  Vegas?— A.  Since  the  year 
1S4»). 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  a  justice  of  the  peace? — A.  I  have  been 
justice  of  the  peace  several  times;  in  187.5  and  1876,  and  four  years 
now. 

Q.  Your  oflice  is  in  Las  Vegas? -A.  In  West  Lasvegas:  yes,  sir, 

Q.  About  how  many  cases  have  you  had  this  year? — A.  I  do  not 
know  how  many  cases!     About  twenty,  twenty-five,  or  tliirty. 

Q.  In  this  year? — A.  Yes.  sir. 

CASES   in    justices"    COURTS. 

Q.  Can  vou  remember  the  nature  of  those  cases? — A.  Well,  my 
book  would  show:  l)ut.  more  or  less,  it  is  about  thirty  cases,  among 
]\lexican  and  American  people. 

Q.  The  cases  that  vou  have  before  you— what  language  is  used? — 
A.  The  Spanish. 

Q.  The  people  who  live  in  Las  Vegas  speak  Spanish?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  be  kind  enough  to  take  the  carriage,  or  any  other  con- 
veyance, and  go  over  and  get  your  docket  and  bring  it  back? — A. 
Y"es,  sir:  all  right. 

And  here  the  witness  left  the  committee  room,  and  returned  after 
some  time  with  his  dockets,  which  were  submitted  to  the  committee. 

Examination  resumed. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Do  you  keep  this  criminal  docket? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

DOCKET    IN    SPANISH. 

Q.  I  see  it  is  all  kept  in  Spanish?  — A.  Part  of  it;  most  of  it  is  in 
Spanish.     The  Spanish  is  kept  in  Spanish  and  the  English  in  English. 

Q.  The  last  case  was  November  7.  1902.  That  is  in  Spanish:  the 
next  case  is  in  Spanish.  Is  there  anything  in  this  criminid  docket 
that  is  in  English  ? — A.  Yes.  sir;  some  in  English,  down  there. 

Q.  Who  wl-ote  this  in  English  for  you?— A.  I  did  it  myself. 

Q.  I  observe  in  this  criminal  docket  of  yours  of  200  pages  that 
practicallv  all  are  written  in  Spanish— all  entries?— A.  Yes,  sir. 


NEW  statp:hood  kill.  13 

Q.  That  is  because  of  what? — A.  Because  the  Spanish  population 
is  in  the  majol■it^^ 

Q.  Because  the  cases  are  in  Spanish,  with  Spanish-speaking  defend- 
ants?— A.  Yes,  sir;  Spanish-speaking-  criminals. 

Q,  You  speak  Spanish  yourself  in  these  cases? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

NATURE    OF    CASES. 

Q.  It  will  be  impossible  for  the  committee  in  the  time  at  its  dis- 
posal to  examine  these  cases.  What  are  the  majority  of  these  cases 
a])out? — A.  The  majority  of  these  cases  are  assault  and  battery  with 
words. 

Q.  And  what  is  the  next  most  frequent  class  of  cases? — A.  The 
next  is  from  going  into  the  railroad  train — some  robberies  and  lar- 
cenies. 

Q,  Most  of  your  civil  docket  is  also  in  Spanish  ?^ — A.  Yes,  sir;  some 
in  English. 

Q.  I  notice  here  a  case  written  in  Spanish  where  the  names  are 
apparently  English — that  is,  a  civil  case  written  in  Spanish  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  You  say  where  the  case  is  written  in  Spanish  it  is  because  the 
parties  were  Spanish-speaking  persons  ?  You  sa}^  that  where  the  record 
is  written  in  Spanish  it  is  where  the  case  was  conducted  in  Spanish? — 
A.  Oh,  no;  it  is  not  in  every  case. 

REASON    FOR    SPANISH    DOCKET. 

Q.  Where  they  are  Spanish-speaking, you  put  it  down  in  Spanish? — 
A.  No,  sir;  the  law  don't  compel  me  to  do  so.  I  write  more  Spanish, 
because  that  is  my  mother  tongue. 

Q.  My  understanding  is  that  in  many  instances  where  the  names  are 
apparently  English  it  is  caused  by  the  fact  that  many  3"ears  ago 
Americans  came  down  here  and  married  Mexicans,  and  the  children  of 
those  marriages  speak  Spanish? — A.  I  only  use  the  English  in  cases — 
whether  the  case  is  in  English  or  Spanish,  I  prefer  to  write  the 
Spanish,  because  that  is  my  native  tongue. 

Q.  Well,  I  suppose  where  the  names  are  Spanish  and  it  is  written 
in  Spanish  there  is  no  doubt  but  what  it  was  a  Spanish  case? — A.  No, 
sir;  that  is  right.  In  cases  where  one  of  the  litigants  is  Spanish 
and  the  other  English  I  write  it  in  Spanish;  therefore  most  of  my 
cases  are  written  in  Spanish. 

Pablo  Ulibarri,  a  Spanish-speaking  witness,  first  having  been 
duly  sworn  (the  oath  being  administered  through  the  official  interpre- 
ter), testified  as  follows,  through  the  official  interpreter: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  please  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My 
name  is  Pablo  Ulibarri. 

Q.   You  were  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  was  your  census  enumerating  district? — A.  No.  7  dis- 
trict, I  think,  but  I  am  not  sure  about  it. 

Q.  What  part  of  this  country  did  that  embrace? — A.  Placientas,  the 
district  had  three  precincts. 


14  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  Does  that  include  Las  Vegas?— A.  No,  sir;  15  miles  north  of 
Las  Veg'as. 

Q.  Do  3^ou  renienil)er  how  many  people  there  were  in  your  dis- 
trict?— A.  I  do  not  know  just  exactly. 

Q.  Give  the  number  as  well  as  you  can. — A.  About  twenty-live 
hundred. 

LANGUAGE  USED  BY  COUNTRY  PEOPLE. 

Q.  What  language  is  spoken  Ijy  those  whose  census  3'ou  took? — A. 
Ninetv-five  per  cent  speak  Spanish. 

Q.  'Of  this  9.5  per  cent  can  any  speak  English?— A.  Sixty-live  per 
cent  of  this  95  per  cent  also  speak  English. 

Q.   How  do  you  know,  if  you  do  not  speak  English  yourself  ? — A.  I 
figure  that  that  percentage  speak  it.     Tliey  all  learn  it  in  the  schools. 
°Q.  How  do  you  know,  if  you  do  not  speak  it  yourself? — A.  I  asked 
these  young  people  if  they  went  to  school  and  if  they  spoke  English. 

Q.  You  know  that  from  those  who  went  to  school? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  did  you  take  the  census  of  the  5  per  cent  who  did  not  speak 
Spanish '. — A.  6f  that  5  per  cent  some  of  them  knew  English  and  Span- 
ish, and  the  rest  only  Spanish — no;  the  other  5  per  cent  knew  English, 
but  not  Spanish. 

Q.  How  could  you  take  the  census  of  those?— A.  I  could  speak  suffi- 
cient English  to"  make  myself  understood  in  English  to  take  their 
census. 

OCCUPATION    OF   PEOPLE. 

Q.  What  is  the  occupation  of  the  people  in  the  district  in  which  you 
took  the  census? — A.  The  greater  part  of  them  are  farmers. 

Q.  Did  you  take  the  census  according  to  your  oath  and  instructions, 
fully  and  faithfully,  or  not?— A.  I  took  it  to  the  best  of  the  knowl- 
edge 1  had  and  the  orders  I  received. 

CENSUS    CORRECT. 

Q.  Do  you  think  3^our  census  was  accurate? — A.  I  think  so,  accord- 
ing to  the  information  given  to  those  people. 

Q.  Have  vou  voted  here  in  New  Mexico  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  the  ballots  printed  in  Spanish?— A.  They  are  printed  in 
Spanish  and  also  in  English. 

Q.  Where  did  you  vote?— A.  I  vote  in  the  old  place,  in  Las  Vegas. 

BALLOTS   IN    SPANISH    AND    ENGLISH. 

Q.  What  ballot,  English  or  Spanish,  does  the  most  of  the  people 
use? — A.  They  vote  in  English  and  Spanish  l)oth. 

Q.  Have  you  ever  observed  any  voting  in  the  country  districts  15 
miles  north  of  here,  where  you  took  the  census? — A.  I  was  not  there 
at  the  time  of  the  voting. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

DiAMO  Deo  Sena,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

B}"  the  Chairman: 
Q.  You  may   please  state  your  name  to  the  committee.— A.  My 
name  is  Diamo  Deo  Sena. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  15 

Q.  How  old  are  you? — A.  1  am  47. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  of  the  Territory? — A.   Yes.  sir. 

Q.  Were  you  born  here? — A.  I  wa.s  l)orn  rig-ht  here  in  Vegas. 

Q.  You  are  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  your  census  enumerating-  district;  what  district  did 
you  have  to  enumerate? — A.  1  do  not  remember  what  was  the  num- 
ber; it  was  in  San  Miguel. 

Q.   How  far  from  here? — A.  Twenty-five  miles. 

Q.  In  what  direction? — A.  West  of  here. 

CENSUS   OF    COUNTRY    DISTRICT. 

Q.   Was  it  a  countiy  district? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is,  the  people  were  engaged  in  agriculture  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Sheep  raising,  or  what? — A.  Some  of  the  fellows  are  in  sheep 
raising. 

Q.  And  what  else? — A.   Agriculture. 

Q.  What  kind  of  agriculture  do  they  do  out  there? — A.  Corn  and 
wheat. 

Q.  Where  is  this  located;  what  stream  runs  there? — A.  The  Pecos 
River. 

Q.  Do  you  remember,  in  the  rough,  what  the  total  number  of  people 
was  ? 

(Here  the  official  interpreter  of  the  conmiittee  was  called  and  the 
remainder  of  the  examination  of  said  witness  was  conducted  througli 
the  said  interpreter.) 

A.  I  do  not  remember. 

Q.  What  was  the  proportion  of  languages  spoken  by  the  people 
there? — A.  Spanish. 

FEW    SPOKE    AMERICAN. 

Q.  How  many  spoke  American  ?  How  many  Americans  were  there 
in  there? — A,  Well,  very  few;  but  a  good  many  Mexicans  speak 
English,  I  think. 

Q.  Did  you  take  the  census  in  Spanish? — A.  No;  I  took  it  in 
English. 

Q.  Did  you  take  it  all  in  English?— A.  Oh,  not  all  English.  The 
names  had  to  go  in  Spanish. 

Q.  But  when  you  were  speaking  to  the  people? — A.  All  in  the 
S^janish. 

Q.  Did  you  find  anybody  who  could  not  speak  Spanish  over  there  ? — 
A.  Oh,  yes. 

Q.  How  many? — A.  Oh,  1  do  not  believe  there  will  be  over  twenty- 
tive,  or  forty,  maybe. 

Q.  And  in  that  district  how  many  hundreds  or  thousands  altogether — 
two  or  three  thousand  or  fifteen  hundred? — A.  1  can  not  tell  how 
many.     About  eight  hundred;  something  like  that. 

TWENTY-FIVE    SPOKE  "AMERICAN." 

Q.  About  eight  hundred  altogether,  out  of  which  twenty-tive  spoke 
American? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  was  Americans;  yes. 


1(3  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

By  Senator  ITeitfeld: 

Q.  What  pcrt'entage  of  the  Spanish  population  speak  English? — 
A.  Well,  I  guess — well,  the  ones  1  can  tell,  most  of  them,  they  speak 
English,  but  speak  good  English,  about  twentv-tive;  something  like 
that. 

Q.  But  all  of  them,  you  say,  speak  some  English? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
some  English. 

Q.  How  do  you  know — do  you  speak  any  English? — A.  Oh,  I  know 
those  people. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  sa\'  you  took  the  census  in  Spanish  ? — A,   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Then,  how  do  you  know  those  people  speak  English? — A.  I  have 
known  those  people  ever  since  I  was  born;  there  is  people  that  I  know 
veiy  well  there,  and  they  have  had  a  school. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  Did  you  make  a  correct  account  of  the  people  in  that  district  ? — 
A.  1  made  it  the  best  I  could. 

CENSUS   COKRECT. 

Q.   Was  it  sul)stantially  correct? — A.  It  was  substantially  correct. 
And  further  the  witness  saith  not, 

Jose  Lino  Rivera,  first  having  been  dul}^  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  M}-  name  is 
Jose  Lino  Rivera. 

Q.  Are  vou  a  native  of  the  Territory? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  old  are  you,  Mr.  Rivera? — A.  I  am  .56  now. 

Q.  What  was  your  census  enumerating  district? — A.  Well,  I  do 
not  rememljer  the  number  now. 

Q.  Where  was  it  located  ? — A.  At  old  Las  Vegas. 

Q.  In  the  town? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  5^ou  lived  there  all  your  life? — A.  JNot  all  my  life;  I  was 
born  at  another  place. 

census   in    las    VEGAS. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  about  the  number  of  people  in  your  dis- 
trict?— A.   Well,  about;  I  do  not  remember  exactly. 

Q.  Oh,  well,  just  make  a  rough  guess. — A.  Very  near  3,O()0  people. 

Q.  That  is  the  town  of  Las  Vegas  itself? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  There  are  more  people  there  than  that,  are  there  not,  or  are 
there? — A.  That  was  in  the  district  where  I  took  the  enumeration, 
3,0o0.     Those  were  just  two  precincts. 

Q.  What  was  the  language  used  in  the  precincts?  What  language 
did  }'ou  use  when  you  took  this  census,  Spanish  or  English  ? — A.  Span- 
ish, with  the  Spanish  people. 

Q.  With  how  many  out  of  that  number  did  you  use  English  in 
taking  the  enumeration? — A.  Well,  lean  not  tell  the  exact  numl)er. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  17 

NATIVE    LANGUAGE    SPANISH 

Q.  Well,  the  native  lang-uage  of  practically  all  the  people  in  Las 
Vegas  is  Spanish,  is  it  not^— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is  the  languag-e  that  they  use  themselves?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  ticket  that  thev  vote  is  printed  in  Spanish,  is  it  not,  when 
they  vote:'— A.  That  I  do  not  remember;  I  think  it  is  generally  in 
Spanish.  . 

Q.  Did  you  take  an  oath  when  you  were  appointed  an  enume- 
rator?— A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  To  take  this  census  truly?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.   Did  you  do  so?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

H.  S.  WoosTER,  tirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Will  you  please  state  your  name  to  the  committee?— A.  H.  S. 
Wooster  is  my  name. 

Q.  You  are  not  a  native  of  New  Mexico?— A.  No,  sir;  I  am  a  native 
of  New  York. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  down  here?— A.  I  have  been  here 
twenty  years. 

Q.  Have  you  been  here  in  Lasvegas  that  long? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  you  a  justice  of  the  peace  in  East  or  West  Lasvegas?— A. 
In  East  Lasvegas. 

EAST   lasvegas   AMERICAN. 

Q.  In  East  Lasvegas  a  majority  of  the  people  are  Americans? — A.- 
Yes,  sir;  they  are  English-speaking  people. 

Q.  And  your  cases  are  between  English-speaking  people,  are  they  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  mostl3^ 

Q.  I  see  here  on  your  docket  the  case  of  The  City  of  Las  Vegas  v. 
Achico? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  a  Mexican. 

Q.  When  you  get  a  man  like  Achico,  do  you  have  an  interpreter? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

INTERPRETER   WHEN    NECESSARY. 

Q.  Do  3'ou  speak  Spanish? — A.  I  do  not;  I  invite  in  an  interpreter, 
and  use  him  when  it  is  necessary. 

Q.  Are  you  familiar  with  old  Las  Vegas? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

MIXTURE  OF  PEOPLE. 

Q.  The  population  over  there  is,  as  we  all  understand,  principalh^ 
Spanish? — A.  Chiefly  Mexican.  By  that  we  distinguish  the  Spanish- 
speaking  people  from  the  others;  there  is  some  Spanish  and  some 
Indians,  and  a  mixture  of  people. 

Q.  Have  you  an  acquaintance  out  around  in  the  country  here, 
Judge? — A.  Yes,  sir;  somewhat. 

Q.  What  business  are  the  people  engaged  in  in  the  country  out 
from  town? — A.  There  is  a  little  class  of  farmers;  the}^  raise  some 
crops. 

H  s  B 2 


18  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

CULTIVABLE  LAND  ALONG  STEEAMS. 

Q.  Are  they  near  some  stream? — A.  MostlN^  the  cultivable  hind  is 
along  the  streams,  })ut  not  ver^^  extensive;  the}^  are  not  what  we  would 
call  in  the  East  farmers. 

Q.  The  chief  occupation  of  the  people  outside  of  town,  aside  from 
cultivating  along  the  streams,  is  what^ — A.  Some  of  them  have  a  few 
cattle,  a  few  sheep  and  a  few  goats;  and  the  manv  that  live  in  the  little 
plazas,  that  we  call  them,  the  male  portion  goes  out  and  herds  stock. 

HOW  COUNTRY  PEOPLE  LIVE. 

Q.  What  are  the  plazas? — A.  The}^  are  places  with  inhabitants,  in  a 
little  square.  The  original  town  is  a  little  square.  As  I  understand 
from  the  Mexicans,  the}'  were  built  that  way  so  that  they  could  pro- 
tect themselves  from  the  Indians,  and  when  old  Mexico  granted  strips 
of  land,  little  arroyas,  they  lived  in  those  plazas  and  went  out  to  cul- 
tivate, and  the  plazas  were  built  in  a  square. 

Q.  So  that  I  understand  that  these  people  who  live  outside  here  in 
the  countrv,  they  do  not  live  in  separate  houses,  but  out  in  bunches? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  and  all  the  order  there  is,  there  is  simply  a  square  built 
around,  and  there  is  little  avenues  built  around,  and  they  go  out  to  do 
their  herding,  and  they  have  little  corrals  that  they  bring  their  goats 
in  at  night.  They  take  them  out  on  the  plains  and  up  in  the  woods, 
and  in  the  evening  they  bring  them  in;  and  that  is  the  way  the  chil- 
dren get  their  education,  lots  of  them — herding  goats. 

MOSTLY    "MEXICAN." 

Q.  Are  the  most  of  these  people  who  live  out  in  the  country  away 
from  the  town  Mexicans,  as  that  term  is  used  down  here  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  they  speak  what  language?— A.  They  speak  the  Spanish 
language,  or  ivy  to:  l)ut  I  understand  that  it  is  not  the  pure  Castilian; 
it  is  a  sort  of  a  jargon  of  their  own. 

Q.  It  is  not  English,  is  it?— A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Could  any  of  us  understand  it  if  we  went  out  there  ? — A.  You 
could  not  understand  a  word. 

HOW    CAxMPAIGNS    ARE    CONDUCTED. 

Q.  And  how  are  the  political  campaigns  and  elections  conducted  out 
in  the  country? — A.  Weil,  they  conduct  them  the  same  way  that  the 
English  do. 

Q.  Do  they  have  speeches? — A.  Y"es,  sir;  it  is  all  in  Mexican,  and 
all  the  ticket's  are  printed  in  Mexican.  I  have  occupied  the  position 
of  justice  of  the  peace  and  police  judge  for  fourteen  vears. 

Q.  Have  you  observed  any  of  the  children  over  in  Old  Lasvegas 
after  they  take  tlieir  education  in  the  school  there — whether  they  keep 
on  speaking  English  or  go  back  to  speaking  Spanish^ — A.  Some  of 
them  feel  a  delicacy  about  speaking  English  after  they  learn  it.  and  in 
a  conversation  with  them  they  will  avoid  speaking  English  all  they  can, 

SCHOOL  CHILDREN  GO  BACK  TO  SPANISH. 

Q.  And  they  relapse  into  Spanish? — A.  They  go  right  back  to  the 
Mexican. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  19 

Eugenic  Rudolph,  tirst  having  been  duly  .sworn,  testilied  as  follows: 
By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  Please  state  your  name  to  the  committee? — A.  My  name  is 
Eugenio  Rudolph. 

Q.   Were  you  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  territory'  did  your  district  cover? — A.  1  think  my  district 
was  No.  4:6:  I  am  not  sure. 

Q.  Where  was  it  located  i — A.  It  was  outside  of  town,  nortliAvest 
from  here— north  south. 

CENSUS   OF    COUNTRY    DISTRICT. 

Q.  How  far? — A.  Oh,  well,  it  is  about  40  miles  from  here. 

Q.  Did  you  take  an  oath  to  do  the  work  correctly? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  do  it  so^" — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  What  was  the  nationality  of  the  people  in  that  district,  whether 
the}"  were  Mexican  or  American? — A.  Well,  they  were  Mexican,  a 
major  it}'  of  them. 

TWENTY   PER    CENT   AMERICANS. 

Q.  How  large  a  majority? — A.  Well,  the}"  might  be  about  20  per 
cent  Americans  among  them. 

LANGtTAGE    SPOKEN. 

Q,   What  was  the  language  spoken  there  ^ — A.  Mexican,  most  of  it. 

Q.  Were  there  schools  in  that  district  ( — A.  There  were  not  any  at 
the  time  I  was  there.     I  was  there  in  June. 

Q.  Ordinarily,  are  there  schools  in  that  district? — A.  Yes,  sir;  they 
told  me  they  had  schools  there:  that  is.  froni  November  on. 

Q.  Have  you  any  knowledge  about  the  number,  the  proportion  of 
the  children  who  attended  school? — A.  Well,  according  to  the  enu- 
merator numbers,  I  think  it  must  have  been — I  had  about  500  in- 
habitants altogether,  and  it  was  about — let  me  see,  it  might  be  about 
200  children  amongst  them  that  went  to  school. 

PROPORTION    OF   CHILDREN. 

Q.  Are  you  sure  that  you  mean  that;  out  of  500  inhabitants,  200 
school  children? — A.  More  or  less;  you  might  say  I  would  come  to 
some  houses  where  there  was  two  of  the  family,  and  about  three  or 
four  or  live  children  in  each  house. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  that  there  were  500  people,  grown  up,  adults,  in 
the  district? — A.  Yes.  sir;  in  my  district. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  How  many  people,  altogether,  young  and  old?— A.  I  do  not 
know;  seven  or  eight  hundred;  I  coukl  not  very  well  say;  I  could  not 
recollect  the  numbei-  there  was  very  well. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 


20  NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL. 

Pablo  Jaramillo,  tir^t  huving  been  duly  sworn,  testilied  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Burnham: 
Q.  You  may  state  3'our  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Pablo  Jara- 
millo. 

Q.   Were  you  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1890  and  1900. 

CENSUS  UPPER  LAS  VEGAS. 

Q.  What  did  your  district  include  in  1900? — A.  It  included  Upper 
Lasvegas,  that  was  precinct  9;  Las  Vigiles,  that  is  precinct  No.  33, 
and  Las  Vegas  Hot  Springs,  that  is  precinct  47. 

Q.  What  was  the  number  of  the  district? — A.  Well,  I  do  not 
remember  what  the  luimher  of  the  district  was. 

Q.  What  was  the  total  num))er  taken  in  your  districts — A.  Five 
hundred  and  something  was  the  total  number. 

PROPORTION    OF   MEXICANS. 

Q.   What  proportion  were  Mexicans? — A.  More  than  half  of  them. 

Q.  Do  you  know  about  the  niunber  of  scholars  in  the  schools? — 
A.  No,  sir;  1  can  not  tell  you  the  number  of  them,  because  eveiy  little 
house  you  w^ill  find  lots  of  them. 

SCHOOL   AGE. 

Q.  You  can  not  tell  the  number  of  school  age? — A.  Well,  school 
age  is  from  5  to  21  years. 

Q.  Can  3^ou  tell  how  many,  or  about  how  man}"? — A.  Well,  I  could 
not  tell  you  exactly.     It  might  be  over  1.50. 

Q.   Do  you  speak  Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  am  a  Spaniard. 

Q.  And  in  taking  the  census  you  used  both  languages,  did  you? — 
'A.  Yes,  sir;  where  there  were  Spanish  people  I  used  Spanish,  and 
where  they  were  American  people  I  used  the  English. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  of  the  Territory? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  always  lived  here? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  was  born  here;  I 
was  born  in  San  Miguel;  that  used  to  ])e  the  county  seat  of  San 
Miguel  County. 

CENSUS   ACCURATE. 

Q.  Do  you   think  you  took   the   census   accurately? — A.  Why,  I 
think  I  did — the  best  I  could — according  to  ni}"  oath. 
And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

F.  O.  Blood,  first  having  been  duh'  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Please  state  3'our  name  to  the  committee. — A.  F.  O.  Blood. 

Q.  And  where  are  you  from  originallv? — A.  From  P^ssex  County, 
N.  Y. 

Q.  How  long  have  3'ou  lived  here? — A.  Twenty-one  years  in  New 
Mexico. 

Q.  During  that  time  you  have  lived  where? — A.  In  White  Oaks^ 
Lincoln  Count}",  four  years. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  here? — A.  Seven  years  here. 

Q.  You  are  the  postmaster  at  East  Lasvegas? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  21 

NEWSPAPERS    IN    EAST    LAS  VEGAS. 

Q.  How  many  newspapers  are  published  in  East  Lasvegas? — A. 
Two  dailies  and  two  weeklies. 

Q.  Are  they  all  American? — A.  The  two  dailies  and  one  weekly 
American,  and  one  Spanish. 

Q.  The  predominance  of  the  inhabitants  here  are  Americans  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  the  name  of  the  Spanish  newspaper  here  i- — A.  La  V'oz 
del  Pueblo. 

Q.  This  Spanish  paper  here  is  printed  for  the  people  here? — A. 
No,  sir;  it  is  nearW  entirely  outside  of  town. 

SPANISH    paper's   CIRCULATION    IN   COUNTRY. 

Q.  And  the  Spanish  paper  in  Las  Vegas  is  for  the  people  there? — 
A.  Its  circulation  is  principally  in  the  country. 

Q.  Can  you  g-ive  a  rough  guess,  from  the  oljservation  in  your  post- 
office,  of  tde  circulation  of  that  Spanish  newspaper  in  the  country? — 
A.  Well,  I  could  not  tell  the  copies;  1  know  the  number  of  poiuids; 
it  is  practically  all. 

"AMERICAN"    PAPERS. 

Q.  How  many  American  papers  go  out  into  the  country? — A. 
Proljably  500. 

Q.  Into  the  whole  country  of  San  Miguel? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  the  rest  of  the  circulation  is  here  in  East  Lasvegas? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  people  who  inquire  for  mail  at  your  post-office  are  confined 
practically  to  East  Lasvegas? — A.  Entirely  so;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  do  the  people  out  in  the  countiy  get  their  mail? — A. 
There  are  little  post-offices  all  out  in  the  country. 

Q.  Do  3"ou  know  any  of  these  postmasters  out  in  the  country  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

POSTMASTERS    ' '  MEXICAN. " 

Q.  Are  they  usually  Mexicans? — A.  Yes,  sir;  nearly  all  of  them. 
Q.  Because  the  people  who  go  to  their  post-offices  are  Mexicans? — 
A.  I  suppose  so;  yes,  sir. 

B}^  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  How  many  papers  go  out  in  the  country  from  your  office  that 
are  printed  in  Spanish? — A.  Well,  I  could  not  tell;  there  is  140  pounds 
goes  out  of  our  office  every  week;  there  is  about  8  to  the  pound,  and 
we  send  140  pounds.  The  paper  printed  on  this  side,  there  is  140 
pounds  of  it. 

Q.  That  is  the  Spanish  paper? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Rafael  Gallegos,  tirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Dillingham  : 
Q.  Please  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.   Rafael  Gallegos. 
Q.  Do  you  speak  English? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.   Were  you  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.   Where  do  you  reside  ? — A.  At  Las  Vegas. 
Q.  And  you  are  a  native  of  the  Territory  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


22  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

MOSTLY    '"MEXICANS." 

Q.  When  you  were  appointed  a  cen,su.s  enumerator,  what  territoiy 
did  your  district  embrace? — A,  Precincts  7,  20,  and  61. 

Q.  Where  is  that  located? — A.  It  is  located  in  the  countj'^  of  San 
Mig'uel. 

Q.  How  far  from  here? — A.  It  is  on  the  Sapollo  River,  10  miles 
from  here. 

Q.  And  of  what  race  or  races  is  the  population  made  up? — A.  Mex- 
icans and  Americans. 

Q.  And  in  what  proportions? — A.  Most  of  them  are  Mexicans. 

Q.  And  what  is  the  language  spoken  ? — A.  Most  of  it  is  the  Mexican 
language — the  Spanish  language. 

CORRECT   ENUMERATION. 

Q.  Did  3"ou  make  a  correct  enumeration  of  the  people  in  that  dis- 
trict?— A.  To  the  V)est  of  m^-  knowledge. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  what  the  number  of  people  was?— A.  No,  sir; 
I  have  got  a  copy  of  it  at  home,  at  m}^  house,  but  I  do  not  remember 
now  how  many  there  were. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Could  you  make  a  rough  guess  ? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  W^here  was  this  district  of  yours  located  with  reference  to  Las 
Vegas? — A.  Ten  miles  out. 

Q.  What  is  the  occupation  of  the  people  there — herding? — A.  Yes, 
sir:  and  most  of  them  are  farmers. 

Q.  What  streams  How  through  there.  Is  that  the  Pecos  district? — 
A.  The  Sapollo  River. 

Q.  You  can  not  farm  away  from  the  stream? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.   Why  not? — A.  On  account  of  the  hills. 

NO    FARMS    AWAY    FROM    STREAMS. 

Q.  There  is  no  water  among-  them? — A.  They  can  irrigate  from 
these  streams,  but  there  are  no  farms  far  away  from  the  stream,  outside 
of  the  limits  which  were  given  by  the  Government  of  Mexico,  and  the 
people  were  not  allowed  to  take  away  the  water  from  the  stream  out- 
side of  the  natural  current. 

Q.  What  do  the  people  do  away  from  the  stream:  do  thev  herd? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  3"ou  been  in  any  of  the  schools  out  there? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  the  country  schools? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

SPANISH   AND    ENGLISH    TAUGHT. 

Q.  Is  Spanish  taught  in  those  schools? — A.  Spanish  and  English; 
yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  the  names  of  any  of  the  teachers  out  there? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Can  3"ou  give  some  of  the  names? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Give  some  of  the  names? — A.  Melecio  Losero. 

Q.  Is  that  a  lady? — A.  No,  sir;  that  is  a  gentleman.  The  names  of 
the  others  I  do  not  remember. 


np:w  statehood  bill.  23 

Q.  They  are  mostly  native  Mexicans? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.  Have  you  been  out  in  these  country  districts  in  an}-  political 
campaig-ns? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

POLITICAL    SPEECHES   MADE    IN    SPANISH. 

Q.   Are  speeches  made  to  the  people? — ^A,  Yes,  sir. 
Q.  In  what  language  were  those  speeches  made? — A.  Made  in  Span- 
ish. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Miss  Maggie  J.  Bucher,  tirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Please  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Miss  Maggie  J. 
Bucher. 

Q.  You  are  here  at  the  request  of  Mr.  Rodey,  are  you  not? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  I  take  it  that  j^ou  are  not  a  native  of  the  Territory  ? — A.  No,  sir— 
of  Virginia. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  down  here? — A.  Eight  years  in  East 
Lasvegas. 

Q.  You  are  the  superintendent  of  the  schools? — A.  Superintendent 
of  the  schools  of  the  city  of  Las  Vegas;  post-office  East  Lasvegas.  We 
have  nothing  to  do  with  the  schools  on  the  other  side. 

Q.  The  population  of  this  city  is  principally  American? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  And  the  attendants  in  your  schools  are  children  of  American 
parents:! — A.  Mostly;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  any  Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir;  we  have  715,  and  out  of 
that  about  100  Spanish. 

Q.  That  is,  in  East  Lasvegas? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  cit}-  of  Las  Vegas. 
Post-office,  East  Lasvegas. 

standard  of  schools. 

Q.  State  what  the  fact  is,  whether  English  is  taught  here.  — A.  Eng- 
lish only  here;  no  Spanish  is  taught  here.  The  schools  are  thoroughly 
up  to  grade,  and  they  can  go  in  any  of  the  States — they  are  just  as 
good  as  the}'  are  in  anv  of  the  States.  We  have  a  high  school  that 
has  a  four  years'  course  in  pi'eparation,  and  two  years  in  operation  now. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  How  long  is  the  course  before  they  enter  the  high  school? — 
A.   Eight  A^ears  in  the  grades. 

Q.   How  many  teachers  do  you  have  under  you '( — A.  Fifteen. 

Q.  They  are  all  American? — A.  Yes,  sir;  except  the  Spanish  teacher 
in  the  high  school.     We  have  a  Spanish  teacher  in  the  high  school. 

Q.  The  100  Spanish  never  get  to  the  high  school  ?— A.  No,  sir. 

WHEN    pupils   quit    SCHOOL. 

Q.  When  do  they  usually  quit? — A.  We  have  them  running  up,  and 
they  -usually  quit  about  the  tit'th  grade. 


24  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  When  the  Spanish  children  come  to  school  what  do  they  speak? — 
A.  The}'  speak  Spanish;  they  do  not  know  a  word  of  English  usually. 
We  have  no  Spanish  children  in  the  high  school. 

SPANISH    CHILDREN    DO    NOT    REACH    HIGH    SCHOOL. 

Q.  They  do  not  reach  the  high  school? — X.  Not  at  the  present 
time;  they  are  improving. 

Q.  Now,  then,  in  the  high  school  3'ou  have  a  Spanish  teacher? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

HIGH    SCHOOL   PUPILS   INSTRUCTED    IN    SPANISH. 

Q.  And  your  pupils  are  instructed  in  Spanish? — A,  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  is  that  course? — A.  Four  years,  with  two  in  operation 
now.  Our  high  school  has  been  in  the  Normal  University  here 
because  we  had  no  building,  and  we  have  just  taken  it  away  from 
there. 

PURPOSE    IN    TEACHING    SPANISH. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Your  purpose  in  the  Spanish  is  that  the  pupils  may  be  taught 
Spanish  so  that  thev  may  teach  Spanish  or  transact  the  business  of  life 
in  a  Spanish  population? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  the  idea  exactly. 

Q.  Have  you  had  time  to  observe  the  Spanish  children  who  come  up 
to  certain  grades  and  drop  out,  as  to  whether  or  not  they  go  home  to 
their  Spanish  surroundings  and  take  up  the  Spanish  language? — A. 
I  have  not  had  much  opportunity;  I  have  had  some.  There  are  some 
of  the  girls  that  have  finished  up  the  fifth  and  sixth  grades  that  hold 
very  good  positions  in  the  stores  here. 

Q.  Are  thej^  mostly  boys  or  girls? — A.   About  half  and  half. 

LANGUAGE    SPOKEN   AT    HOME. 

Q.  They  go  home  at  night  and  speak  the  Spanish,  do  they  not? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  question  is  whether  or  not  they  leave  school — after  they  leave 
school  their  tendency  as  a  whole  was  to  continue  the  English  or  to 
lapse  back  into  the  Spanish? — A.  They  are  very  anxious  not  to  give 
up  their  English,  but  to  answer  that  question  definitely,  I  could  not. 

Q.  Do  you  observe  whether  or  not  in  their  plays  the  1<»0  Spanish 
children  flock  together,  or  do  they  mingle? — A.  The}"  mingle. 

LANGUAGE    USED    AT   PLAY. 

Q.  What  language  do  they  use  in  their  plays? — A.  A  mixture  of 
Spanish  and  English.  If  they  can  use  the  Engli.^h,  they  do;  if  not, 
Spanish. 

B}'  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  How  far  have  they  carried  the  grades,  in  the  fifth  grade? — A. 
They  read  in  the  fifth  reader,  and  have  an  idea  of  fractions  and  lan- 
guage work  and  geography.  They  are  quite  apt  in  anything  mechan- 
ical. They  learn  to  write  and  learn  to  draw,  but  it  is  very  hard  to 
teach  them  English  well. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  25 

Felipe  Baca  y  Garcia,  a  Spanish -speaking  witness,  fii-st  having 
been  duly  sworn  through  the  medium  of  the  official  interpreter, 
testified  as  follows  through  said  interpreter: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  do  not  speak  English? — A.  I  speak  yery  little;  I  understand 
some. 

Q.  You  raa}^  state  your  name  to  the  conniiittee. — A.  My  name  is 
Felipe  Baca  y  Garcia. 

Q.  How  old  are  you? — A.  Forty-eight  years  old. 

Q.  You  are  a  justice  of  the  peace;  where  is  3'our  office? — A.  In  the 
Placa  Vegas,  and  precinct  64. 

Q.  Old  Las  Vegas? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  haye  you  lived  there.^ — A.  The  last  forty-eight  years. 

LANGUAGE    PRINCIPALLY    SPOKEN. 

Q.  What  is  the  language  principally  spoken  by  the  people  where 
youliye? — A.  Mexican. 

Q.  What  are  the  litigants  who  appear  before  you  in  your  court, 
Mexicans  or  Americans^  as  that  term  is  used? — A.  Mexicans  are  a 
majority. 

DOCKET    IN    SPANISH. 

Q.  I  see  that  all  of  your  docket  is  written  in  Spanish. — A.  All  is 
written  in  Spanish. 

INTERPRETER    WHEN    ENGLISH    IS   USED. 

Q.  The  witnesses  whom  you  hear  before  you  in  the  trial  of  cases, 
are  they  Spanish-speaking  or  English-speaking? — A.  When  they  are 
English  I  haye  an  interpreter  there. 

Q.  I  see  here  on  page  6  of  your  docket  what  appears  to  be  a  justice 
of  the  peace  jury.     Is  that  a  jury? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  are  the  names  of  those  jurors  ?— A.  They  are  Pedro  Triego, 
president;  Fabriar  Gallegos,  Antonio  Maria,  Pedro  Grego,  Jose  Uli- 
barri,  and  Luis  Pino. 

Q.  That  is  the  only  jury  on  your  docket,  is  it? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

NATURE    OF   CASES. 

Q.  Whatis  the  nature  of  your  cases  ? — A.  Some  for  robberies,  others 
for  carrying  arms,  and  cases  of  assault  and  battery. 

Q.  Haye  you  read  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States? — A.  Ko, 
sir;  I  haye  never  read  it. 

Q.  Haye  you  been  present  at  any  campaign  speeches  in  Las  Vegas  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  been  there  many  times. 

Q.  In  what  language  are  those  speeches  made? — A.  In  Spanish  and 
in  American  both. 

Q.  You  try  these  cases  of  course  under  your  statutes  here,  under 
the  laws  of  the  Territory  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


26  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

LAWS    PRINTED    IN    SFANISH. 

Q.  And  arc  these  laws  printed  in  Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.  And  also  in  Eno-lish? — A.  I  have  the  code  in  Spanish,  and  I  do 
not  have  it  in  Enolish. 
And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Cleofes  Romero,  first  having  l^eeu  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  please  state  your  name  to  the  committee? — A.  My 
name  is  Cleofes  Romero. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  of  New  Mexico? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  always  liv^ed  here  in  this  county? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  was 
born  rio-ht  here  in  this  town,  in  old  Las  Vegas. 

Q.  Where  did  you  get  your  education;  where  did  you  go  to  school  ? — 
A.  First  I  went  to  school  in  St.  Marys,  Kans.,  and  then  I  went  to  the 
business  college  in  Kansas  City. 

Q.  St.  Mary's  is  a  church  institution? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  Is  that — is  St.  Marys  in  Pottawatomie  County? — A.  1  do  not 
know  whether  it  is  or  not. 

By  the  Chairman. 

Q.  You  went  there  first,  and  then  to  Kansas  City,  to  the  business 
college? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  then  you  came  back  home? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  3'ou  are  now  the  sherili'  of  this  county  ? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Your  office  as  sherifl'  takes  you  pretty  well  over  the  county  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

herding,  the  chief  occupation  in  the  country. 

Q.  We  gather  from  what  we  have  learned  that  the  occupation  of 
the  people  out  through  the  country  is  chiefly  herding? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

herders  are  natives. 

Q.  And  they  are  what,  as  to  their  race,  Mexican  or  American,  as 
those  terms  are  used  down  here? — A.  The  herders  are  what  we  call 
natives. 

Q.  And  they  speak  what  language? — A.  They  speak  Spanish,  and 
you  will  find  a  good  many  that  will  speak  both  languages. 

Q.  Have  you  been  out  in  the  campaigns? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  there  any  speeches  made  out  in  the  country? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  what  languages  i — A.   Both  languages. 

Q.  Where  do  you  iind  the  English-speaking  men  out  in  the  coun- 
try i — A.  There  are  some  precincts  where  we  have  Americans,  and  we 
speak  there  in  English. 

SPANISH    CHIEFLY    USED   IN    CAMPAIGN    SPEECHES. 

Q.  The  majority  of  the  speeches  are  made  in  Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

And  here,  at  the  hour  of  li)  o'clock  p.  ul,  the  committee  adjourned 
further  hearings  until  Thursday  morning,  November  13,  1902,  at  10 
o'clock  a.  m.,  at  the  Palace  Hotel,  Sante  Fe,  N.  Mex. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  27 


Santa  Fe,  N.  Mex.,  NomiiiU,'  IS,  190'2. 

,].  Francisco  Chavez,  first  having  been  duly  .sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Mr.  Chavez,  state  to  the  committee  your  full  name. — A.  J. 
Francisco  Chavez. 

Q.  You  are  a  native  of  New  Mexico? — A.  I  am. 

Q.  Your  age? — A.  I  was  born  in  1838 — sixty-nine  years  ago. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  superintendent  of  public  instruction? — 
A.  About  a  year  and  a  half. 

Q.  During  that  time  what  schools  have  you  visited? — A.  I  have 
visited  the  schools  in  the  county  of  Taos,  Rio  Arriba,  Mora,  Colfax,^ 
Union,  Chaves,  Eddy.  Donna  Ana,  Socorro,  Valencia,  and  Bernalillo, 
and  this  county — Santa  Fe. 

Q.  Well,  do  you  mean  by  that  that  you  visited  all  of  the  schools  in 
these  counties,  or  have  you  visited  the  schools  in  the  principal  towns 
of  the  county  ? — A.  I  have  been  to  the  county  seat  of  each  county.  I 
have  looked  over  the  records  of  the  superintendents.  I  thought  it 
proper  to  visit  two  or  three  or  five  of  these  different  districts,  and  have 
gone  there  and  have  communicated  with  nearly  every  district  in  the 
Territory. 

Q.  Your  personal  visits  have  not  been  in  the  country  schools?— 
A.  Yes;  in  the  country  schools,  as  I  have  said,  in  all  of  these  counties 
that  I  have  mentioned. 

Q.  In  a  year  and  a  half? — A.  Yes;  I  have  visited  at  least  four  dis- 
tricts in  each  county  in  these  counties  mentioned.  The  law  requires 
me  to  make  an  annual  visit  to  each  one  of  these  counties,  but  the 
appropriation  was  so  small,  it  being  only  %b()()^  and  postage  alone  was. 
$25  a  month.  You  see,  I  have  to  communicate  with  Europe,  the  Phil- 
ippine Islands,  with  (.'aba,  with  Hawaii,  and  other  States  in  the  Union, 
and  with  a  large  number  of  agricultural  associations  in  the  Union. 

Q.  That  would  leave  you  just  $200  of  your  appropriation  to  make 
these  personal  trips  on? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  hav^e  put  my  hand  in  my 
pocket  to  pay  for  some  of  these  trips. 

STUDIES   TAUGHT    IN    THE    SCHOOLS. 

Q.  Mr.  Chaves,  in  the  common  schools  Avhat  are  the  studies  taught — 
in  the  common  schools,  not  the  high  schools? — A.  Grammar,  geog- 
raphy, arithmetic.  This  is  what  is  usually  taught,  but  language  is 
taught. 

Q.  Spanish? — A.  No;  not  all  of  them.  There  are  good  schools 
where  Spanish  is  not  taught  at  all. 

Q.  The  committee  understands  from  testimony'  already  begun  that 
in  a  high  school  in  an  American  settlement  at  East  Lasvegas,  Spanish 
is  not  taught  until  the  highest  grade  is  reached,  and  in  all  larger  schools- 
both  Spanish  and  English  is  taught. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

SOME    DISTRICTS   IN    WHICH    SPANISH    IS   TAUGHT    EXCLUSIVELY. 

Q.  What  is  the  case  about  Spanish  being  taught  exclusively  in  cer- 
tain counties  of  the  Territory? — A.  There  are  some  districts  in  which 


28  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Spanish  is  taught  exclusively.  The  reason  for  this  is  the  paucity  of 
teachers. 

Q.  Have  3-ou  g-ot  a  list  with  you  of  the  teachers  of  the  Territory? — 
A.  No,  sir.  ^ 

Q.  Is  your  office  here?— A.  They  ought  to  be  at  the  office. 

Q.  Can  you  procure  the  list? — A.  I  will  do  so  to-day. 

WHAT    SPANISH   TEXT-BOOKS   USED. 

Q.  What  Spanish  text-books  are  used  in  the  common  schools? — A. 
They  are  Velazquez's  grammar  and  reader. 

Q.    What  else  ^ — A.   I  forget  the  arithmetic  and  geography. 

Q.  But  some  Spanish  authority? — ^A.  Yes,  sir.  Probably  McGuffey, 
but  translated  from  the  English  to  the  Spanish. 

Q.  The  history  that  is  in  the  common  schools? — A.  American  his- 
torv.     Very  likely  McGutfey,  translated  from  English  into  Spanish. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

The  list  of  teachers  forwarded  bv  the  last-named  witness  appears  as 
Exhibit  B. 

John  R.  McFie,  associate  justice,  Territory  of  New  Mexico,  presid- 
ing judge,  first  judicial  district,  being  called  as  a  witness,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  in  the  Territorv,  Judge? — A.  More 
than  nineteen  years. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  judge? — A.  Nine  years. 

Q.  Your  first  appointment  was  under  President  Harrison?  Con- 
tinued since? — A.  I  dropped  out  under  Cleveland's  term.  Was  reap- 
pointed by  President  Roosevelt  last  jenr. 

Q.   What  State  were  you  originall}^  from? — A.   Illinois. 

Q.  What  are  the  counties  that  comprise  your  judicial  district? — A. 
Santa  Fe,  Taos,  Rio  Arriba,  and  San  Juan. 

proportion  of  native  population. 

Q.  In  the  counties,  taking  them  in  the  order  you  have  named,  what 
would  you  sa}^,  as  a  rough  estimate,  of  the  proportion  of  the  native  or 
Mexican  population,  or  what  we  call  down  here  Mexican  population? — 
A.  At  a  rough  estimate,  I  would  say  two-thirds  are  natives. 

Q.  That  would  apply  to  each  county  ? — A.  No.  San  Juan  is  largely 
American.     Rio  Arriba  and  Taos  are  largely  native. 

the  larger  per  cent  natives. 

Q.  And  Santa  Fe? — A.  Santa  Fe,  the  larger  per  cent  of  the  people 
are  native  people. 

Q.  That  is  the  count}^  in  which  the  city  of  Santa  Fe  is  located? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  hold  court  in  each  one  of  these  counties? — A.  The  United 
States  court  is  held  here  in  Santa  Fe  for  four  months,  and  then  court 
is  held  in  each  of  the  counties  twice  a  vear  for  Territorial  business. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  29 

Q.  Have  you  got  your  official  Territorial  list  for  the  last  one  or  two 
or  three  ^^earsi! — A.   Yes;  they  are  in  the  clerk's  office. 

Q.  The  committee  could  have  access  to  them  and  to  the  docket? — 
A.  Yes,  sir.     P]ver3'thing-  is  at  your  disposal. 

rKOVISION    FOR    INTERPRETER. 

Q.  In  the  trial  of  cases,  both  in  the  United  States  and  Territorial 
courts,  do  you  use  an  interpreter^ — an  official  interpreter? — A.  Yes, 
sir.  The  law  provides  for  an  interpreter  in  our  courts.  In  the  county 
of  San  Juan  we  rarely  use  an  interpreter.  In  other  counties  an  inter- 
preter is  necessary,  both  on  account  of  the  ]'ui\v  and  witnesses. 

interpreter's  work. 

Q.  The  work  of  an  interpreter  is  what? — A.  He  translates  English 
into  Spanish  and  Spanish  into  English. 

Q.  He  translates  the  testimony  of  witnesses  to  court  and  jury  and 
translates  the  arguments  of  counseH — A.  Y"es,  sir;  and  the  charge  of 
the  court  to  the  jury.  The  law  requires  the  charge  of  the  court  to 
be  in  writing,  and  of  course  it  is  in  English,  and  it  is  then  read  in 
Spanish  to  the  native  juries,  if  the}^  are  native  juries;  also  interprets 
the  oath  of  office. 

METHODS    OF   JURY   ROOM. 

Q.  When  the  jury  retires  to  the  jury  room  what  is  the  nature  of  the 
work  of  an  interpreter  being' re(|uired  in  the  jury  room  to  translate  for 
those  who  speak  English  and  no  Spanish  and  others  who  speak  Spanish 
and  no  English? — A.  It  is  very  rarely  that  an  interpreter  is  sent  unless 
requested  by  the  juiy.  The  reason  for  this  is  there  are  many  of  the 
natives  who  speak  English  and  they  are  required  to  interpret. 

Q.  There  is  alwaj's  somebod}^  in  the  jury  room  that  speaks  both 
tongues,  but  not  everyone? — A.  I  never  allow  an  interpreter  in  a  jury 
room  unless  there  is  some  one  in  the  jury  room  that  can  not  speak 
English.  This  rarely  occurs,  but  then  the  official  interpreter  is  required. 

THE    COMMISSION    OF    CRIME. 

Q.  Now%  as  to  the  taking  up  of  criminal  side  of  the  court,  what  are 
the  proportion  of  American  to  Mexican  classes;  can  you  give  a  rough 
sort  of  estimate  as  to  the  proportion  of  the  greater  crimes  of  the 
criminal  court? — A.  Speaking  as  to  this  district,  I  would  estimate  two- 
thirds  of  the  crimes  as  committed  by  the  native  population  to  one- 
third  by  the  Americans. 

Q.  Y^our  rough  estimate  as  to  the  proportion  of  the  crimes  of  the 
Americans? — A.  It  is  very  difficult  to  get  at  that  because  it  differs 
very  greatly  here.  Eor  instance,  there  is  no  preponderance  of  one 
class  of  crimes.  I  think  the  matter  of  larceny  would  predominate 
when  it  comes  to  the  stealing  of  stock.  And  then  the  crime  of  arson 
and  assault  and  battery  would  probably  come  next. 

Q.  Judge,  outside  of  the  countv  of  San  eluan,  have  3'ou  had  a  single 
case  in  all  of  your  service  as  judge  in  a  jur}"  case  where  the  services  of 
an  interpreter  was  not  required? — A.   Well,  I  think  not.     I  do  not 


30  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

rectill  a  case  now  for  the  reason  that  natives  predomhiate  in  our  terri- 
tories. 

Q.  Your  juries  run  in  age  from  21  to  60  years? — A,  T^'enty-one  to 
60  years.     This  is  the  age  limit. 

COMPOSITIOX   OF   JURIES. 

Q.  You  tind  that  the  young-  native  members  of  the  jury  speak  Span- 
ish^— A.  Yes;  a  great  many  of  them;  but  there  are  a  very  large  num- 
ber of  them  speak  English  with  the  Spanish  people  that  speak  English. 

Q.  Do  they  speak  English  as  fluently  as  we  ourselves  this  day,  here 
this  morning? — A.  No;  not  as  fluently  as  we  do;  but  I  think  there 
are  more  than  one-half  of  them  speak  it  so  as  to  be  conversive. 

Q.  ^Vhat  is  the  language  they  use  among  themselves  ? — A.  The}"  speak 
the  native  tongue.  I  notice  a  tendency  to  speak  the  language  among 
themselves  after  they  have  acquired  it. 

Q.  Have  you  in  your  long  residence  down  here — I  take  it  you  have 
traveled  more  or  less  among  the  country  districts? — A.  I  have  held 
court  in  all  of  these  counties. 

HERDING   AND    SHEEP    RAISING. 

Q.  The  people  outside  of  the  towns  and  out  in  the  country  are 
engaged,  as  I  am  informed,  chiefly  in  herding  and  sheep  raising.  Espe- 
cially along  the  water  courses? — A.  Yes;  along  the  water  courses  the}^ 
are  farmers. 

Q.  Have  you  visited  the  schools  out  in  the  couaitry? — A.  No,  not 
man}'  of  them. 

Q.  You  are  not  prepared  to  testify,  from  personal  examination,  con- 
cerning the  schools  of  the  countr}"? — A.   No. 

Q.  Have  j^ou  ever  participated  in  political  campaigns  out  in  the 
countrv  districts? — A.  No,  sir:  1  have  never  since  I  have  been  in  the 
Territory. 

Q.  Your  jury  lists  are  kept  in  books,  are  the}*  not  ^ — A.  Yes. 

HOW    JURIES   ARE    MADE    UP. 

Q.  They  are  drawn,  are  they  not^ — A.  The  commission  selects  the 
juries  and  sends  in  the  list,  and  then  the  juiy  is  made  from  these 
names  that  are  sent  in  b}'  the  committee. 

Q.  So  this  jury  list  is  selected  by  the  commission? — A.  Yes. 

And  furthermore  witness  saith  not. 

The  committee  resumed  hearings  at  2.30  o'clock  p.  m. 

Miss  Barbara  Ferea  y  Risarri,  first  having  been  duly  smorn,  tes- 
tified as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Will  you  please  state  your  name  to  the  committee? — A.  My 
name  is  Barl)ara  Perea  }'  Kisarri. 

Q.  You  were  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  what  was  your  census  district? — A.  Cerrillos  and  Madrid. 
1  think  the  number  of  the  district  was  21,  if  I  am  not  mistaken. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  31 

Q.  Was  it  in  this  county  ? — A.   Yes,  sir;  in  this  county  of  Santa  Fe. 

Q.  Was  it  in  this  city  or  outside? — A.  Outside  of  the  city. 

Q.  How  far  away  ? — A.  1  thinlv  Cerrillos  is  a))out  28  or  30  miles  from 
Santa  Fe. 

Q.  Were  the  people  in  the  district  which  you  enumerated  town  or 
countiy  peopled — A.  Mostly  all  country  people;  3'es,  sir. 

MOSTLY    LAliOKERS. 

Q.  Their  occupations  were  what'^ — A.  Well,  mostly  all  of  them  were 
laborers. 

Q.  Laborers  at  what? — A.  Some  of  them  used  to  work  for  the  rail- 
road and  some  of  them  at  the  coke  ovens. 

Q.  Can  3"ou  remember,  at  a  rough  g-uoss,  of  what  the  total  number 
was  that  you  enumerated? — A.  I  am  afraid  I  can  not  remember  now. 

Q.  What  proportion,  what  number  of  the  number  you  took  were 
natives,  or  Mexicans,  as  contradistinguished  from  Americans? — A. 
Well,  the  greater  part  of  them  were  Mexicans.  In  Cerrillos  and 
Madrid  I  took  in  a  few  Americans  and  other  nationalities — that  is,  in 
Madrid  more  than  in  Cerrillos. 

Q.  Out  of  the  total  number  that  you  took  what  was  the  proportion 
that  were  Americans  as  compared  with  the  Spaniards?  Were  there 
many  Americans? — A.  Not  very  many,  just  a  few. 

CENSUS   TAKEN    IN    SPANISH. 

Q.  In  taking  the  census  of  the  native  population  did  you  use  the 
Spanish  language  in  taking  them? — A.   Yes,  sir;  I  did. 

Q.  They  spoke  Spanish? — A.  They  spoke  Spanish;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Before  you  entered  upon  the  duties  of  j'our  office  3^ou  took  an 
oath,  did  you? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  did. 

Q.  To  faithfully  enumerate  the  people,  and  so  forth? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

CENSUS   ACCURATE    AND   CORRECT. 

Q.  Did  you   faithfull_y,   accurately,   and   correctly  enumerate   the 
people  in  your  district? — A.   Yes,  sir. 
And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Jose  D.  Sena,  iirst  having  been  duly  sw^orn,  testified  as  follows: 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee? — A.  My  name  is 
Jose  D.  Sena. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  of  New  Mexico? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.   How  old  are  you? — A.   I  am  35  3'ears  old. 

Q.  Have  vou  lived  here  all  your  life? — A.  Except  the  years  1  have 
attended  school. 

Q.  Where  did  you  attend  school? — A.  In  Las  Vegas,  and  two  j^ears 
in  St.  Louis. 

Q.  You  are  the  assistant  interpreter? — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  You  interpret  for  the  court  when  the  official  interpreter,  who 
has  been  elected  sheriff,  can  not  act? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  do  ,you  interpret  for  him? — A.  The  only  term  I  attend 
regularl}^  is  the  Rio  Arriba  County,  where  he  has  been  elected  sheriff'. 

Q.  Have  you  attended  the  conventions  iiere:  did  you  attend  the  last 
liepublican  convention  here? — A.  No.  sir. 


32  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

INTERPRETER    FOll   CONVENTION    NOMINATING    PRESENT    DELEGATE. 

Q.  Did  you  attend  the  TeiTitorial  convention  which  nominated 
Mr.  Rodey? — A.  I  attended  the  Republican  Territorial  convention 
this  year. 

Q.  Did  you  interpret  there? — A.  I  did.  Mr.  Maortez  was  appointed 
interpreter  on  the  floor,  but  I  interpreted. 

Q.  This  was  the  Territorial  convention  which  nominated  Mr. 
Rodey? — A.  Yes,  sir.  Mr.  Maortez  was  appointed  interpreter  on 
the  floor,  and  his  voice  gave  out,  and  I  did  it  for  him. 

Q.  What  did  you  do  in  that  convention? — A.  I  interpreted  the 
speeches  seconding-  the  nomination  of  Mr.  Rodey.  The  nomination 
w^as  made  by  a  gentleman  in  English,  and  I  interpreted  it  in  Spanish, 
and  I  interpreted  for  Mr.  Romero,  of  Las  Vegas. 

Q.   Where  was  that  convention  held? — A.   In  Raton. 

Q.   When  was  it  held  i — A.   Octol)er  10,  this  year. 

Q.  And  an}^  speech  made  in  English  you  interpreted  into  Spanish, 
and  any  speech  made  in  Spanish  you  interpreted  into  English  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

METHOD    OF    INTERPRETATION. 

Q.  And  1  understand  that  the  method  is  for  a  speaker  to  speak  a  sen- 
tence and  then  he  stops  and  you  translate  it,  and  then  he  speaks  another 
sentence  and  you  translate  that? — A.  Yes,  sir;  although  most  of  them 
when  I  am  interpreting  keep  right  on  and  I  keep  up  with  them. 

Q.  That  is  on  account  of  your  proflciency  as  an  interpreter? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

TRANSLATION    IN    THE    COURTS. 

Q.  Just  describe  briefly  your  translations  in  the  courts:  what  it  is 
that  you  translate.  Do  you  translate  the  testimony  of  witnesses? — 
A.  Yes,  sir,  and  the  questions  of  counsel,  and  the  arguments  of  coun- 
sel to  the  jurv,  and  the  instructions  of  the  court  to  the  juiy. 

IN   JURY    ROOMS. 

Q.  You  have  been  called  into  jury  rooms? — A.  Yes,  sir;  this  term 
of  court  I  attended  I  was  directed  to  go  into  two  jury  rooms  with  the 
jury  themselves.  There  was  one  man  on  the  panel  that  could  not  speak 
English  at  all,  and  he  was  the  only  one  on  the  panel  that  could  not 
speak  English  and  Spanish  both, 

Q.  And  3'Ou  have  had  two  such  cases  in  court  this  term? — A.   Yes, 


sir. 


IN    THE   LEGISLATURE. 


Q.  Are  you  the  interpreter  in  the  legislature?  Who  is  the  inter- 
preter in  the  legislature ? — A.  The}^  generally  select  a  diflerent  one 
ever}"  term. 


IN    THE  COUNCIL. 


Q.  Who  was  the  last  one  ?— A.  The  last  one  was  Mr.  Reed;  he  was 
the  interpreter  for  the  council. 


NEW    STATKHOOD    HILL.  38 

IX    TUi:    HOUSE    or    KKI'KKSENTATIVES. 

Q.  The  council- timt  is  in  the  plui;e  of  the  senate;!— A.  Yes.  sir. 
And  in  the  house  of  representatives  tlwy  had  Mr.  Nestor  Montoya, 
and  also  they  had  Modesto  Ortiz. 

Q.  Where  are  they  from  ( — A.  They  l)oth  live,  in  All)U(|uer(|ue.  Mr. 
Montoya,  he  is  the  court  ii>terpreter  there.  Mr.  Reed  was  the  inter- 
preter'of  the  council,  but  really  in  the  council  he  had  nothing  to  do. 

TENDENCY    TO    USE    OE    ENGLISH,     • 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  What  is  the  tendency  to  the  use  of  the  English  language  on  the 
part  of  the  Mexican  population;  is  it  growing^ — A.  It  is  growing, 
and  1  can  notice  it  every  day.  For  instance,  the  children  on  the 
streets  play  with  young  American  children  sometimes,  and  the  Ameri- 
can boys  will  try  to  speak  the  Spanish,  and  try  to  learn  it.  and  the 
little  boys  won't  let  them.  And  in  my  own  people  th(}  custom  is.  when 
tlK\v  get  to  talking  English,  they  talk  it  entirely.  For  instance,  in 
my'own  family  we  talk  in  English  entirely,  except  when  mother  is 
present,  and  then  we  talk  Spanish,  because  she  don't  talk  English  at  all. 

Q.  Is  that  the  case  in  the  outlying  districts? — A.  Yes.  sir;  the 
poorer  peo^^le  are  very  anxious  to  learn  the  English.  They  learn  it 
as  fast  as  they  can.  Sometimes  the  people  who  live  in  my  neighbor- 
hood, they  go  out  to  work  in  families  that  speak  English,  and  I  meet 
them  and'speak  to  them  in  Spanish  and  tliey  vrill  answer  me  in  English. 

By  Senator  Dilltngha:m: 

Q.  That  is  especially  true  of  the  l)etter  educated  class? — A.  Yes, 
sij";  and  a  majority  of  the  }>eople  doing  business  here  speak  English. 

Bv  the  Chaik:\l\n: 

Q.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Las  Vegas? — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  Would  you  say  that  that  was  the  case  there? — A.  No, sir:  not  so 
much. 

Q.  In  one  carriage  there  yesterday  members  of  the  committee  met 
a  great  many  children,  and  tried  to  speak  English  with  them,  and  they 
could  not  do  it. — A.   Well,  that  is  not  the  case  so  much  over  there. 

A    RACE    PREJUDICE. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  In  Las  V.egas,  as  I  understand  it,  the  two  elements  are  divided 
by  two  towns? — A.  Yes.  sir;  and  there  seems  to  be  a  race  prejudice 
there  more  than  in  any  other  part  of  the  world. 

Q.  Is  that  the  case  here;' — A.  No,  sir:  I  have  not  seen  it  so  pro- 
nounced any  place  else  as  there.  That  was  dying  out,  I  thought,  the 
last  time  I  was  there. 

Q.  Have  you  any  other  towns  like  that  ?  —A.  We  have  .Vlbu([uer(iue: 
there  is  the  old  town,  which  is  Mexican,  and  the  new  town  is  almost 
entirely  American. 

Q.  \Vhat  language  do  rhey  use  in  the  1)usiness  houses  here'? — 
A.  English,  chiefly. 

H  s  B 3 


34  NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL. 

BOOKS   EOUCrllT. 

Q.  ll'AVQ  ycni  tiny  Spanish  schools  in  this  town  ? — A.  ISo,  sir:  we  have 
no  Spanisii  in  the  schools  in  the  Territory.  As  I  understand  it.  the 
hoard  of  education,  in  buyino-  ))()oks,  they  are  all  Enolish  hooks.  Of 
course  there  are  places,  for  instance,  in  the  country  districts  where 
the  teacher  has  to  have  a  knowledge  of  both  Eno-H.sh  and  Spanish. 

By  the  Chairiman: 

Q.  Are  you  speaking  from  knowledge  r  ]  suggest  that  you  ought  to 
be  certain  about  that  statement. — A.  I  mean  by  that  that  it  is  not 
taught  exclusively  to  any  other  language. 

Q.  P)ut  you  do  not  mean  to  say  tliat  Spanish  is  not  taught  in  an}'  of 
the  schools^ — A.  I  do  not  think  it  is  taught  in  any  of  the  schools  here 
in  town.  All  the  information  1  have  as  to  that  is  that  last  year  the}' 
had  a  Spanish  class  in  the  high  schools  here.  1  think  Mr.  Woods,  the 
superintendent,  could  give  you  more  information  in  that  regard. 

And  furtlier  the  witness  saith  not. 

Facundo  Ortiz,  tirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  DiLLiNGiL\M: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee^ — A.  My  name  is 
Facundo  Ortiz. 

Q.  You  speak  English  ^ — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  do. 

Q.  Y"ou  were  one  of  the  census  enumerators  at  the  last  census? — A. 
Y'^es,  sir;  1  was;  in  the  enumeration  district  No.  20. 

Q.  Where  was  that  territory  located? — A.  In  the  Territory  of  New 
Mexico. 

Q.  In  what  particular  part? — A.  It  was  at  a  place  called  Sante  Fe, 
Agua  Frifra,  and  CMenaga.  outside  the  city. 

Q.  How  far  away  from  the  city? — A.  It  starts  about  a  mile  out  of 
town. 

Q.  And  goes  how  far? — A.  About  10  or  12  miles:  if  1  ;im  not  mis- 
taken, as  far  as  16  miles. 

Q.  How  long  were  you  employed  in  taking  the  census  ? — A.  Exactly, 
I  can  not  tell  you. 

Q.    Well,  about  how  long:! — A.  Abouta  month. 

NATIONALITY   OF   INHABITANTS. 

Q.  What  was  the  nationality  of  the  iidiabitants  of  that  district:  that 
is,  to  what  race  did  they  belong? — A.   Most  of  them  are  natives. 

Q.   Mexicans ; — A.  Y"es.  sir:  ^Mexicans. 

Q.  How  large  a  proportion  of  them  were  Mexicans? — A.  '\>'ell, 
most  all  jMexicans,  they  wert\ 

MEXICAN    LANGUAGE    USED. 

Q.  What  language  did  you  find  was  used  connnonly  among  them? — 
A.   Mexican:  they  all  spoke  Mexican. 

Q.  What  language  did  you  use  in  taking  the  census^— A.  The  same 
as  tliey  did. 

Q.  Do  you  recollect  about  what  the  population  of  that  district  was 
in  numl)er? — A.  No,  sir;  1  have  not  got  it  in  my  mind  noAV.  I  could 
not  tell  vou  exactlv.     1  do  not  remember  exactlv. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HJLL.  35 

A    CAREFUL    ENUMEKATIOX. 

Q.  Did  you  make  a  careful  enumeration,  so  as  to  be  sure  that  they 
all  g-ot  onto  your  record^- A.  Yes,  sir;  I  went  house  by  house  in 
taking-  the  enumeration. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Clementa  p.  Ortiz,  first  having-  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  Senator  Dillinciham: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  eonunittee.— A.  My  name  is 
Clementa  P.  Ortiz. 

Q.    What  is  your  age  ^ — A.  Seventy -one  years. 

Q.  And  how  long-' have  you  lived  in  the  Territory  ?— A.  All  my 
life,  with  few  exceptions,  when  1  went  to  school,  and  in  the  States 
two  or  three  years. 

Q.  You  we're  one  of  the  census  enumerators  in  1900^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  where  was  your  work  done  in  1900^ — A.  It  was  in  Espanol 
and  San  Ildefonso. 

Q.  And  where  are  those  places  located  ^— A.  It  is— San  Ildefonso  is 
northwest  of  here. 

Q.  How  far? — A.  About  20  miles  from  here:  and  Espanol  is  about 
26  miles. 

Q.  Are  those  villages;  or  was  the  territory  sparsely  inhabited? — 
A.  There  were  not  many  villages;  scattered  houses. 

Q.  How  many  inhai^itants  in  the  district  that  you  enumerated,  as 
nearly  as  you  can  recollect? — A.  I  ])elieve  it  was  over  a  thousand,  if  I 
remebemr  well;  1  do  not  exactly  remember. 

RACE    OF   THOSE    ENUMERATED. 

Q.  And  to  what  race  did  those  inhabitants  mainly  belong,  Mexican 
or  American?— A.  Spanish;  that  is,  not  any  Indians;  I  did  not  go 
to  the  pueblos  of  the  Indians,  and  some  Americans  and  Germans,  and 
so  forth. 

Q.  ^Vell,  what  j^roportion— how  large  a  proportion  of  the  entire 
population  of  the  district  were  of  Spanish  extraction  ? — A.  It  was  a 
majoritv;  majoritv  Spanish.     It  was  about  three-fourths  of  it. 

Q.  And  what  language  did  they  employ  ?— A.  Well,  some  of  tliem 
spoke  Spanish,  and  the  young  boys  anil  girls  beg-in  to  speak  English. 

Q.  Wliat  language  did  you  employ  in  taking  the  census? — A.  Eng- 
lish and  Spanish  both. 

Q.  English  with  the  English-speaking  people  and  Spanish  with  the 
Spanish-speaking  people? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

A    FULL   AND    COMPLETE    ENUMERATION. 

Q.  Did  you  make  a  full  and  complete  enumeration  of  tlie  people  in 
your  district?— A.  I  did,  sir:  I  did  all  I  could.  If  anyone  were  absent 
"it  was  not  my  fault.  I  went  to  every  house  and  inquired  of  every 
village.  I  did  not  take  any  of  the  Indians  on  the  pueblos.  They  had 
a  special  enumeration  for  them. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 


30  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Ambrosio  Ortiz,  first  having"  l)een  duly  sworn,  testiliod  as  follows: 
By  Senator  Dillinmiham: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  coniniittee. — A.  M}^  name  is 
Am))rosio  Ortiz. 

Q.   You  speak  P^noHsh  ^  -  A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  old  are  you^ — A.  1  will  be  63  next  December. 

Q.  And  you  reside  here? — A.  Yes, sir;  I  was  born  here  in  Santa Fe. 

Q.  Have  vou  always  resided  in  the  Territory? — A.  Always  in  the 
town  of  Santa  Fe. 

Q.  And  you  assisted  in  taking  the  census  of  1900? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  AVhereabouts? — A.  In  precincts  4  and  It),  here  in  the  city,  in  the 
limits  of  the  corporation. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  about  the  number  of  inhabitants  of  those 
precincts  ? — A.  There  were  thirty-one  hundred  and  some  odd. 

PROPORTION    OF    MEXICANS   AND    AMERICANS. 

Q.  What  proportion  of  them  were  of  that  class  known  as  Mexicans 
and  what  proportion  were  of  that  class  knowMi  as  Americans? — A. 
About  one-third  Americans. 

Q.  And  two-thirds  Mexicans? — A.  Yes,  sir;  two-thirds  Mexicans. 

LANGUAGE    USED. 

Q.  What  language  is  used  by  the  Mexicans? — A.  We  always  use 
the  Spanish  language. 

Q.  That  is  usual  andcustomar}-  when  they  are  associating  together? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  there  any  effort  on  their  part  to  master  the  English  and  use 
that!' — A.  Sometimes  they  did.  Sometimes  when  I  went  to  a  house 
and  I  did  not  find  the  men  there,  and  I  spoke  to  the  lady  in  the  Spanish 
language. 

Q.  What  language  did  you  employ  in  taking  the  census? — A.  The 
Spanish  and  English.  There  were  some  Germans,  and  the}^  all  spoke 
English.  I  used  English  among  the  English  people  and  German  peo- 
ple, and  Spanish  among  the  Mexican  people. 

CENSUS   ACCURATE. 

Q.  Did  you  take  pains  to  make  a  full  and  accurate  enumeration  of 
the  people? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  did,  sometimes. 

Q.   Well,  how  well  do  you  think  you  succeeded? — A.  First  rate. 

Q.  How  man}' schools  are  there  in  those  precincts? — A.  There  is 
one  Indian  school  and  4  schools  of  the  city. 

Q.  Do  3'ou  know  the  number  of  pupils  in  that  district? — A.  I  do 
not  recollect. 

Q.  Well,  did  I  understand  you  to  say  that  there  were  4  schools  in 
that  district  where  you  took  the  enumeration? — A.  Yes,  sir:  4  schools. 
The  precinct  No.  IT,  those  are  the  government,  and  the  precinct  No.  4, 
it  belongs  to  the  city. 

Q.  Do  you  know  whether  Spanish  is  taught  in  those  schools  or 
not? — A.  They  teach  English, 

Q.  Do  they  teach  Spanish,  too? — A.  I  do  not  know  exactl}',  1  think 
very  few;  they  teach  the  young  children,  maybe. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 


NEW  statp:hood  bill.  37 

Joseph  P.  Conklin,  lirst  luivino-  ])eon  duly  sworn,  testitied  as 
follows: 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Joseph  P. 
Conklin. 

Q.  How  old  are  you? — A.  I  am  S-t. 

Q.   Do  you  i-e.side  in  the  city  c — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long-  have  you  been  a  resident  here? — A.  T  was  l)orn  and 
raised  here.     1  took  the  census  in  the  southern  portion  of  this  count}'. 

Q.  How  far  out  from  the  city? — A.  Why,  1  started  from  here  34 
miles,  and  from  that  on  ^0  miles,  along  the  district  1  had. 

Q.  About  how  many  inhabitants  were  there  in  that  territory;' — A. 
About  900. 

OCCUPATION    OF    INHABITANTS. 

Q.  And,  in  genoral.  what  was  their  occupation? — A.  Well,  most  of 
them  were  mining-. 

Q.  And  those  not  engaged  in  mining  were  engaged  in  what  ^ — A. 
Well,  sheep  raising  and  farming. 

Q.  Is  there  an}'  farming  except  right  along  in  the  bed  of  the 
streams? — A.  That  is  all — right  along  the  streams. 

Q.  And  how  was  the  population  there  divided  up  as  between  these 
900  people,  as  to  Americans,  as  that  term  is  known  here,  and  Mexi- 
cans?— A.  Well.  I  suppose  about  two-thirds  were  Mexicans,  and  the 
other  third  were  Americans;  but  then  most  of  them  Mexicans  in  the 
mines,  however,  talk  English  as  well  as  Spanish.  Of  course  those 
that  were  engaged  in  farming,  they  have  a  school  about  three  months 
out  of  the  year,  and  the  young  ones  they  are  learning  it,  but  the  old 
folks  do  not  know  it. 

OLDER   INHABITANTS    CLING    TO    SPANISH. 

Q.  The  older  ones  cling  to  the  Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir;  they  never 
learned  it,  and  they  are  too  old  now. 

Q.  How  large  a  territory  was  that — that  is,  in  area? — A.  Why,  it  is 
about  20  miles  long,  and  1  do  not  know  how  wide  it  is;  about  10  or  15 
miles. 

Q.  It  was  a  sparsely  settled  district? — A.  Yes,  sir;  only  right  where 
the  mining  was  done. 

MINES   OWNED   BY    AMERICANS. 

Q.  Those  engaged  in  mining  came  in  contact  with  the  Americans  all 
the  time? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  mines  are  owned  by  Americans. 

Q.  Did  you  take  pains  in  making  this  enumeration  to  make  it  as  per- 
fect as  possible? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  made  as  good  a  record  as  anybody. 

Q.  You  are  satisfied  that  it  was  perfect? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  am. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

James  D.  Hughes,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  connnittee. — A.    eTames  D. 
Hughes. 


38  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL, 

Q.  And  what  is  your  ag-e,  Mr.  Hughes? — A.  I  am  41, 
Q.   How  long-   have   you  ))een  a  resident   here^ — A.   Since    1881 — 
twenty-one  y(>ars. 

Q.  You  are  a  ])ul)lish('r^  A.  I  ha\-e  charge  of  the  business  part  of 
the  phint,  Senator.  I  have  nothing  whatever  to  do  with  the  publica- 
tion or  editorials. 

AN   ENGLISH    AND    SPANISH    PUBLICATION. 

Q.  State  what  the  publication  is  that  you  are  connected  with. — A. 
It  is  a  daily  publication;  we  have  a  daily  in  English,  a  weekly  in 
English,  and  a  weekly  in  Spanish. 

Q.  What  are  the  names  ^ — A.  The  Santa  Ee  New  Mexican  is  the 
daily.  The  New  Mexican  Review  is  the  English  weeklv,  and  El  Neuva 
Mexicana  is  the  Spanish  edition  of  the  weekly. 

RELATIVE    CIRCULATION. 

Q.  What  is  the  circulation  of  these  various  publications? — A.  The 
daily  had  a  circulation  last  year  of  a  thousand  and  twenty,  the  English 
weekly  of  TOO,  and  the  Spanish  weekly  1,!)00. 

Q.  And  where  is  the  weekly  mostly  circulated? — A.  That  is  out  in 
the  outside  districts — out  through  the  ranching  districts. 

WHERE    CIRCULATED. 

Q.  That  is  true  of  both  of  these  publications? — A.  Very  largeh^; 
3'es,  sir.  Of  course  we  have  quite  a  sales  circulation  in  the  town  with 
the  English  weekly..  We  have  practically  no  subscribers  at  all  for  the 
English  weekly  in  town;  it  is  almost  altogether  out  of  town. 

Q.  And  are  these  substantially  the  same  paper,  one  being  in  English 
and  the  other  in  Spanish  i — A.  Our  English  daily  and  weekly  are  sub- 
stantially the  same.  The  weekly  is  made  up  from  the  daily,  but  the 
Spanish  weekly  is  only  partially  what  the  dailv  is.  We  have  a  sepa- 
rate editor  for  that  and  translator.  It  is  very  largely  the  same.  We 
take  extracts  from  the  daily. 

Q.  Is  there  any  other  newspaper  published  in  Sante  Fe? — A.  There 
is  a  Spanish  weekly.  El  Boliten  Popular,  and  another  English  weekly, 
the  Capital. 

Q.  You  have  no  knowledge  of  the  circulation  of  them  ( — A.  None 
whatever;  not  the  slightest. 

OUTSIDE    PUBLICATIONS. 

Q.  I  suppose  outside  publications  come  in  here  freely  ;' — A.  Oh,  3'es. 
You  see,  Senator,  we  get  Denver  papers  at  night  of  the  day  of  their 
publication,  and  it  curtails  the  circulation  in  the  Territory  of  the  local 
papers.  The  Denver  papers  are  the  papers  that  are  mostly  taken  here. 
I  suppose  ther(^  are  more  Denver  Republicans  and  Denver  Times — 
more  than  all  others  combined — although  the  St.  Louis  Glol»e-Democrat 
and  the  St.  Louis  Republic  have  a  large  circulation  in  the  Territory. 

And  further  the  witness  saitli  not. 


NEW    S1\NTEH()()D    BILL,  89 

A.  M.  Bekgeke,  iirst  huvinn'  hcciii  duly  swoni,  tcstiried  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  3'oui'  muue  to  the  conmiittee. — A.  My  iianic  is 
A.  M.  Beroerc. 

Q.  What  official  position  do  you  hold? — A.  I  am  clerk  of  the  district 
court  of  th(^  tirst  judicial  district  of  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico. 

Q.  What  counties  coni})ose  that  district? — A.  The  counties  of  Santa 
Fe,  Rio  Arriba,  Taos,  and  San  Juan. 

Q.  Have  you  present  before  the  coniuiittee  some  of  the  records, 
dockets,  of  that  court? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  please  furnish  to  the  committee  a  list  of  juries  who 
served  in  Santa  Fe  County,  1902;  Rio  Arriba  County,  1002;  Taos 
County,  10O2;  San  Juan  County.  lOoo,  and  make  the  same  a  part  of 
3'our  testimony? — A.  Yes.  sir;  1  will  do  so  as  soon  as  possible. 

And  further  the  witni^ss  saith  not. 

Said  jury  list  furnished  ]>v  the  last-named  witness,  and  duly  certified 
to  I)v  him,  is  ann(\\ed  as  Exhil)it  ''C." 

Francisco  Anaya,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testitied  as  follows: 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  What  is  your  name? — A.  Francisco  Anaya. 

Q.  Do  you  speak  English? — A.  Not  very  well,  but  1  can  understand 
some. 

Q.  You  are  a  native  of  New  Mexico? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long-  have  you  been  a  justice  of  the  peaces  —  A.  I  have  been 
a  justice  of  the  peace  for  prett^y  nearly  two  years;  two  years  next 
Januar}'. 

SPANISH    DOCKET. 

Q.  I  see  this  docket  is  practically  all  written  in  Spanish. — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Why  is  it  you  make  it  in  Spanish  instead  of  English  ? — A.  Because 
we  keep  the  dockets  in  Spanish. 

Q.  I  see  here  that  nearly  all  the  names  of  the  parties  in  running- 
through  the  docket  are  Spanish  names. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  most  of  your  cases  with  the  Spanish  population? — A.  The 
majority  of  them  are  Mexicans  in  my  precinct. 

Q.  In  the  trial  of  these  cases  the  witnesses  are  examined  in  Spanish. 
Are  the  cases  conducted  in  Si)anish? — A.  Yes,  sir;  sometimes  in 
Spanish,  sometimes  in  English.  There  are  so  many  cases  that  have  to 
be  tried  there  that  we  have  to  try  them  in  English. 

INTERPRETER    E^OR   JUSTICE    OF   THE    PEACE. 

Q.  Where  the}^  are  tried  in  English,  do  you  have  to  have  an  inter- 
l)reter? — A.  Sometimes,  because  some  of  the  witnesses  are  Americans 
and  some  are  Mexicans;  but  1  do  not  understand  the  language,  and 
have  to  have  an  interpreter  on  the  floor. 

Q.  Do  you  have  juries !; — A.  Yes,  sir;  sometimes. 

Q.  Is  there  any  jury  list  in  this  docket  of  yours ?^ — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  have  lawj-ers  in  your  court? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


40  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

LAWYERS    SPEAK    SPANISH. 

Q.  I)c>  the  lawyers  speuk  to  the  juries  in  Spanish^ — A.  Yes.  sir; 
sometimes. 

Q.  \\'ell,  do  they  very  often  sp(>ak  to  the  juries  in  English  ? — A. 
Yes.  sir. 

Q,   When  they  do,  do  you  have  an  interpreter^ — A.   Yes.  sir:  we  do. 

Q.  Do  you  ever  have  a  jury  in  whieh  English  is  spoken  in  which 
you  do  not  have  to  have  an  interpreter^ — A.  No,  sir.  There  are 
many  times  that  the  jury  is  composed  of  Americans  and  Mexicans. 
The  Americans  understand  the  Mexican  language  and  do  not  have  to 
have  an  interpreter. 

JURY   LISTS. 

Q.   You  have  a  list  of  the  jury  in  your  justice  court? — A.   Yes.  sir. 

Q.  They  are  in  Spanish  ? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  vou  read  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  I  have  read  part,  not  all. 

Q.  AVhat  do  understand  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States  to 
be  ? — A.   I  understand  the  Constitution  to  be — the  statutes  of  the  Terri- 
tory of  New  Mexico  were  made  in  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States  of  America. 
.  Q.   \Yhat  parts  have  you  read  ? — A.  1  have  read  parts  of  it  in  Spanish. 

Q.  You  have  not  read  all  of  the  Constitution? — A.  Not  all. 

Q.  Can  you  remember  any  ])art  or  any  portion  of  the  Constitution  i — 
A.  The  Constitution  is  under  what  the  laws  of  New  Mexico  are  made. 
And  the  laws  of  New  Mexico  have  to  be  made  under  the  Constitution 
of  America. 

Q.  Do  you  know  how  the  Constitution  of  the  Ignited  States  l>egins  i — 
A.  No,  sir. 

A    .iriiV    SEXTEXCE. 

[Ciiiiy  tnkcn  from  docket.    Jury  sentence.] 

Saxta  Fe,  N.  M.,  Abril  7  de  1892. 
Nosotros  los  del  juit\do  liayaiiios  al  acusad*)  con  culpa  y  le  imponemos  So. 00  de 
imilta  y  cinco  dias  de  carsel. 

Marcos  Castillo,  Presldcnte  del  Jurado. 

Charles  M.  Conklin,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  U'ill  you  give  the  committee  your  full  name? — A.  Charles  M. 
Conklin. 

Q.   How  long  have  vou  li\ed  here? — A.   1  was  born  here. 

Q.  1  judge  from  your  name  that  you  are  what  is  known  as  Amer- 
ican, as  distinguished  from  Mexican? — A.  My  father  is  American; 
mother  is  Mexican. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  l)een  a  justice  of  the  peace? — A.  About  a 
year. 

Q.  About  a  year? — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  I  notice,  in  running  over  your  docket  here,  that  it  is  all  written 
in  Spanish. — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  Why  is  that? — A.  Because  it  was  the  custom  of  the  justice  of 
the  peace  that  was  before  me.     He  always  kept  the  record  in  Spanish. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  41 

Q.  I  iilso  notii'O  that  the  record  kept  is  not  your  hunchvritiiio-. — A. 
The  handwriting-  is  by  my  son,  who  helps  me, 

Q,  Your  son  ^  This  is  your  name  sio-ned  to  the  bottom,  is  it  not? — 
A.   Yes,  sir:  some  written  by  m}'  son  and  some  b}' Jose  Maria  Garcia. 

Q.  Your  son  writes  Eng-lish? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  write  English  ( — A.  Yes,  sir, 

Q,   Yet  your  docket  is  kept  in  Spanish? — A,   Yes,  sir, 

Q,  In  the  trial  of  causes  tried  in  your  court  are  the  trials  conducted 
in  Spanish? — A,  In  Spanish,  mostly.  Of  course  most  of  the  lawyers 
that  practice  in  the  justices'  courts  speak  Spanish  ? 

Q,  And  where  there  is  a  lawyer  that  speaks  only  P^ng-lish,  then  you 
have  to  have  an  interpreter^ — A,  Sometimes:  because  I  speak  English 
myself, 

Q,  You  interjn-et,  then? — A,  If  there  is  a  jury,  then  I  have  to  have 
an  interpreter,  but  otherwise  not,  because  1  speak  English  myself. 

INTERPRETER    USED    IN    JURY    CASES, 

Q,  In  the  case  of  a  jury  the  service  of  an  interpreter  is  always 
used? — A,  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  I  see  3^our  several  dockets  are  also  kept  in  Spanish, — A,  Yes, 
sir:  for  the  same  reason, 

Q.  They  are  kept  in  Spanish^ — A,  Yes,  sir:  they  are  kept  in  Span- 
ish— record  and  all.     Yes,  sir, 

Jose  Maria  Garcia,  tirst  ha\ing  been  duly  sworn,  testilied  as  fol- 
lows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q,  Will  you  give  your  full  name^ — A,  Jose  Maria  Garcia, 

Q.  Are  3'ou  a  justice  of  the  peace  now? — A,  Ko,  sir, 

Q,  You  preceded  Mr,  Conklin  ( — A,  Yes,  sir, 

Q,  How  are  justices  of  the  peace  appointed  in  the  Territory  ? — A. 
By  election. 

Q,  They  are  elected  by  the  people? — A,  Yes,  sir, 

Q,  How  long  were  you  a  justice  of  the  peace? — A,  I  have  been  a 
justice  of  the  peace  eight  years:  that  is,  now  eight  years  next  January, 

Q,  Did  you  turn  over  your  records  to  Mr,  Conklin? — A.  Yes.  sir, 

reason    for    KEEPING    RECORDS   IN    SPANISH, 

Q,  In  what  language  were  those  records  kept!* — A,  Usually  in 
Spanish,  because  the  people  here  are  Spanish,  and  the  American  peo- 
ple are  less  than  the  Mexican  people  and  most  all  talk  Spanish,  you 
know,  and  of  course  I  like  my  own  language  better  than  any  other, 
the  same  as  I  like  the  Tnited  States  lu^tter  than  any  other  country  in 
the  world. 

Q.  Sometimes  you  have  English-speaking  counsel  in  the  court. 
In  that  event,  did  you  use  an  interpreter? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  could  understand  English  Avhen  it  is  spoken? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  But  when  you  have  juries  'what  is  spoken? — A.  We  speak 
Spanish. 

Q.  If  you  had  American  witnesses  or  Eng'lish-speaking  counsel,  did 
it  require  the  services  of  an  interpreter? — A.  Yes,  sir;  because  the 


42  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

witnesses  and  lawyer  of  defendant  are  unable  to  understand  what  the\'^ 
are  talking  about. 

Q.  You  were  born  in  the  Territory'? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  was  born  here 
in  New  Mexico.  I  was  raised  up  here  and  lived  here  until  the  civil 
war,  when  1  enlisted,  in  18(U.     You  see  I  am  crippled. 

Q.  Outside  of  that,  you  have  lived  here  all  the  tinie^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Camilo  Padilla,  tirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Will  vou  please  state  vour  name  to  the  committee? — A.  Camilo 
Padilla. 

Q.  You  were  a  census  enumerator!! — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  the  district  you  were  to  enumerated — A.  Part  of  the 
city  of  Santa  Fe. 

Q.  In  this  enumeration  do  you  rememl)er,  in  a  rough  way,  about  the 
number  you  enumerated? — A.  Maybe  about  fifteen  or  seventeen  hun- 
dred people. 

Q.  In  taking  those  1,T<>0  people  how  many  would  you  say  used  the 
Spanish  language? — A.  Mayl^e  almost  all,  because  there  are  very  few 
Americans  living  in  that  part  of  the  city.  There  are  a  few  Germans 
and  Italians.     Mostly  all  are  Spanish  people. 

Q.  Bt^fore  3'ou  began  your  work  did  you  take  an  oath  to  faithfully 
and  correctly  enumerate  all  the  people  in  your  district  t — A.  Yes,  sir. 

ENUMERATION    CORRECTLY    MADE. 

Q.  Did  you  faithfully  and  correctly  enum(n-ate  all  the  people  in 
your  district? — A.   Yes,  sir. 
And  further  witness  saith  not. 

JirvENCio  QuiNTANA,  fir.st  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  fol- 
lows : 

By  the  Chairman  (answers  through  the  official  interpreter  of 
the  conmiittee) : 

Q.  Will  you  give  your  name  to  the  committee  f — A.  Juvencio 
Quintana. 

Q.  You  are  a  justice  of  the  peace? — A.   He  saj^s  he  is. 

Q.  How  long? — A.  Since  last  year;  February. 

Q.  Where  have  vou  resided?  You  area  native  of  this  place?— A 
Yes;  I  am  a  native  of  this  Territory. 

Q.  Always  resided  here? — A.  Lived  in  Santa  Fe  all  my  life. 

Q.  In  your  court  do  you  have  occasion  for  an  interpreter  ? — A.  One 
time  in  the  whole  of  his  court. 

INTEKl'KETER    USED   IN    ENGLISH    CASES. 

Q.  What  language  is  used  in  your  court? — A.  In  Spanish  only,  but 
sometimes,  when  it  is  an  English  case,  he  speaks  English. 

Q.  Only  once  had  occasion  for  an  interpreter? — A.  Onlv  one  time. 

Q.  What  occasion  then  ? — A.   Does  not  remember. 

Q.   In  what  language  is  your  record  kept? — A.  In  Spanish. 

Q.   Entirely? — A.   Yes. sir. 

Q.  Do  you  have  a  jury  ? — A.  No. 

Q.  Have  you  had  occasion  for  a  jury? — A.  No. 

And  further  witness  saith  not. 


NEW    STATKHOOI)    HILL,  43 

Leonardo  Dukan,  first  haviiijj'  been  duly  .sworn,  testiticd  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman  (answers  through  the  official  interpreter  of 
the  committee): 

Q.   Will  you  please  state  your  name^ — A.   Leonardo  Duran. 

Q.  How  long-  have  you  been  a  justice  of  the  peace? — A.  Two  years. 

(}.   What  language  is  used  in  your  court  iJ — A.   Spanish. 

Q.  And  for  what  district  are  you  a  justice  of  the  peace? — A.  The 
eighteenth. 

Q.   In  Saute  Fe?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  Avliat  language  are  the  records  of  your  court  kept  ? — A.  In 
Spanish. 

Q.  Do  you  require  the  services  of  an  interpreter  at  any  time? — 
A.  Yes;  sometimes. 

Q.  On  what  occasions? — A.  When  it  is  a  case  where  the  man  can 
not  speak  in  Spanish.  ' 

Q.  Have  you  read  the  Constitution  of  the  United  States? — A.  A" 
little  of  it. 

statutes   printed    in    SPANISH. 

Q.  Are  the  statutes  or  laws  that  you  have  in  your  justice's  court 
})rinted  in  Spanish? — A.  In  Spanish. 
And  further  witness  saith  not. 

Paul  A.  F.  Walters,  first  htiving  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

B}^  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Will  you  give  to  the  committee  vour  f ull  name? — A.  Paul  A.  F. 
^Valters. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  here? — A.  Three  and  one-half  years. 

Q.  What  State  did  you  come  from? — A.   Eastern  Pennsylvania. 

Q.  Did  you  come  down  here  about  the  same  time  Mr.  Andrews 
did? — A.  No;  I  came  here  after  he  had  1)een  interested  in  the  Terri- 
tory, but  he  has  lived  here  onh'  in  the  last  year.     I  was  in  Santa  Fe. 

Q.  You  were  a  neighbor  of  his  in  Pennsylvania? — A.  He  lived  in 
Pittsburg  and  1  came  from  the  eastern  pail  of  Pennsylvania.  I  knew 
him  in  Harrisburg. 

Q.  You  are  the  postmaster  here  now? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  postmaster? — A.  Three  months. 

circulation    of    SPANISH    NEWSPAPERS. 

Q.  What  would  you  say  of  the  Spanish-printed  newspapers  that  go 
through  your  office  here? — A.  I  should  judge  about  85  per  cent. 

Q.  Of  those  that  go  through  the  mails  here  only  what  would  the 
per  cent  be? — A.  Almost  50  per  cent. 

Q.  Almost  one-half? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

NATIVES    AS    LETTER-AVRITERS. 

Q.  The  mail  that  is  put  into  tlic  office  and  received,  what  is  the  per 
cent  of  that? — A.  That  is  a  matter  of  guesswork,  but  the  natives  are 
great  letter- writers.     Most  of  their  mail  is  in  the  S^janish  handwriting. 

Q.  Are  the  newspapers  going  out  of  this  office  all  printed  here  in 


44  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

the  cit_y? — A.  Yes.  They  would  pvat'ticuUy  have  to  be  to  entitle  them 
to  second-class  postage. 

Q.  You  have  no  accounts — A.  That  is  my  opinion.  I  have  made 
no  account.     Merely  guesswork. 

Q.  Do  3'()U  speak  Spanish;! — A.  A  little;  not  much.  I  can  under- 
stand it,  but  do  not  s])eak  it. 

Q.  Have  you  any  difficulty  in  making  these  men  understand — 
patrons  of  your  office^ — A.  Once  in  a  while.  Patrons  from  the 
country  districts  can  not  understand  me,  but  the  average  man  in  the 
city  can  understand  English. 

Q,  You  have  some  one  in  the  office  that  can  speak  Spanish,  1  sup- 
pose?— A.  Yes;  my  assistants  speak  Spanish  and  English. 

Q.  Your  communications  with  the  patrons  of  3'our  office  would  l)e 
very  simple? — A.  Very  i)lain.     Yes. 

And  further  witness  saith  not. 

Pedro  Sanchez,  tirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows; 

By  the  Chairman  (submitted  through  and  answers  by  the  official 
interpreter  of  the  committee): 
Q.  State  your  full  name. — A.  Pedro  Sanchez. 

Q.  You  were  the  census  supervisor  of  New  Mexico? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.  How  old  are  you? — A.  Seventy  3'ears.' 
Q.  Seventy  years  ? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  appointed  the  enumerators  under  you? — A.  Yes. 
Q.  You  remember  altogether  how  many  enumerators  there  were? — 
A.   About  78. 

majority  of  census  enumerators  were  natives. 

Q.  Were  nearly  all  of  these  natives — Mexicans,  as  they  use  the  term 
Mexican  down  here? — A.  The  majority  were  natives. 

Q.   Did  most  of  these  natives  speak  Spanish  ? — A.  All  spoke  Spanish. 

Q.  How  many  of  them  spoke  Spanish  and  nothing  else? — A.  Not 
sure;  but  think  they  all  spoke  English  and  Spanish.  I  am  not  quite 
sure. 

Q.  You  do  not  speak  English  yourself.  How  do  you  know  they  all 
spoke  English  ? — A.  They  wrote  to  me  that  they  all  spoke  English. 
They  made  their  applications,  and  in  these  applications  they  stated  they 
spoke  English  and  Spanish. 

Q.  You  did  not  see  theui  in  person? — A.  Not  all. 

Q.  We  had  at  Las  Vegas  before  us  yesterday  some  of  the  enumera- 
tors who  could  not  speak  English. — A.  In  that  case  they  lied  to  me, 
because  they  represented  to  me  the  other  way. 

Q.  Of  the  enumerators  named  by  you  some  were  Americans,  were 
they  not? — A.   vSome  were  Americans. 

Q.  Very  few,  however? — A.  In  some  cases  the  population  were  more 
Americans,  and  in  those  the  enumerators  were  Americans. 

enumerators    asked    for    SPANISH    INTERPRETERS. 

Q.  There  w^ere  thirteen  Spanish  interpreters  to  assist  the  enumerators 
in  taking  the  census.  What  were  these  interpreters  for? — A.  Because 
the  enumerators  asked  for  them.     Because  some  of  these  gentlemen 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  45 

speak  Ensi'lish,  and  Spanish,  and  Grornian,  and  for  that  reason  they 
asked  for  these  interpreters. 

Q.  His  explanation  does  not  lit  the  following-  facts:  He  had  1 
German  interpreter,  17  Indian  interpreters,  1  Italian  interpreter,  18 
Spanish  interpreters.  Ask  him  if  it  is  not  the  fact  that  the  ]  :>  Si)anish 
interpreters  were  not  recjuired  ])y  American  enumerators  who  found 
out  that  they  could  not  take  the  census  in  their  precincts  without  a 
Spanish  interpreter^ — A.  He  does  not  know  the  reason  why  it  was. 
They  simply  made  ai)plication  for  these  interpreters  and  he  g-ranted 
them. 

Q.  Is  it  not  his  opinion  that  these  13  Spanish  interpreters  that  were 
requested  from  him  were  requested  by  American  enumerators  who 
could  not  take  the  census  without  them? 

REASON    FOR   REQUESTING    SPANISH    INTERPRETERS. 

A.  That  is  the  reason  why  they  asked  for  them.  They  could  not 
make  themselves  understood. 

Q.  Has  he  traveled  out  in  the  coiuitry  in  the  outl3"ino-  districts? — 
A.  No. 

Q.  Any  place  out  in  the  Territory? — A.  He  has  traveled  a  little — 
not  much. 

Q.   When? — A.  During- the  last  two  years. 

Q.  Where? — A.  In  Albuquerque,  Dona  Ana.  Rio  Arril)a,  and  Taos. 

Q.  Now  he  savs  he  has  traveled  a  little  in  the  country  districts? — 
A.   Yes. 

Q.  If  he  has  lived  here  all  his  life,  he  has  lived  here  before  the  rail- 
roads came.  Has  he  traveled  out  in  the  country? — A.  Yes;  before 
the  railroads  came. 

POPULATION    OF   COUNTRY    DISTRICTS    MEXICAN. 

Q.  Out  in  the  country  districts,  what  is  the  character  of  the  popu- 
lation— is  it  Mexican  or  American? — A.  The  greater  part  Mexican; 
the  majority  of  the  people  are  Spanish. 

Q.  What  language  did  the  majority  of  the  people  in  the  country 
districts  speak? — A.  Spanish  language. 

Q.  Before  he  took  his  office  he  took  an  oath  to  administer  the  duties 
of  supervisor  of  census  and  that  the  census  would  be  correctly  taken. 
Was  the  census  correctly  taken? — A.  He  says  he  carried  it  out  to  the 
very  best  of  his  knowledge,  and  that  he  took  the  oath. 

Q.  Was  the  census  taken  correctly  and  accurately  ? — A.  He  says  he 
thinks  it  was  taken  entirely  correct;  but  there  are  some  who  say  it 
was  not  taken  correctl3^ 

Q.  Quite  correctly?   -A.  Quite  correctly. 

And  further  witness  saith  not. 


Albuquerque,  N.  Mex.,  JVovejiiher  llf.,  1902. 

The  committee  resumed  its  hearings  at  the  above  place  at  the  above 
date  and  hour. 

fFudge  Benjamin  S.  Baker,  called  as  a  witness  before  the  com- 
mittee, testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Please  state  to  the  committee  3'our  name  and  official  position. — 


4()  NEW    STATEHOOD    KILL. 

A.  Beiijiuuiii  S.  Baker;  associate  justice  of  the  supreme  court  of 
New  Mexico. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  associate  justice^ — A.  I  entered  upon 
the  duties  of  this  office  the  :^!>th  day  of  flanuary  of  this  year. 

Q.  Have  you  been  continuously  on  those  duties  ever  since  ^ — A.  Ever 
since;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  liow  many  times  do  you  have  courts — A.  I  held  one  term  of 
court  here  in  this  county,  and  two — well,  since  the  17th  of  September 
of  this  term  of  court  now  in  proo-ress;  and  one  term  in  Valencia 
County,  and  one  term  in  McKinley  County. 

Q,    What  county  is  this^ — A.  Bernalillo  County. 

Q.  What  counties  constitute  your  district!; — A.  These  three  coun- 
ties that  I  have  named — Bernalillo,  Valencia,  and  McKinle}'  counties. 

PROPORTION  OF  POPULATION. 

Q.  What  are  the  proportions,  as  you  have  observed,  of  the  Mexican 
and  American  population  in  these  counties,  using  those  terms  as  they 
are  used  down  here? — A.   Do  you  mean  of  jurors  or  cases? 

Q.  No,  no;  of  the  population. — A.  Well,  in  J^ernalillo  County  I  come 
in  contact  with  a  great  many  more  Republicans,  I  should  say  Ameri- 
cans, for  the  reason  that  this  city  is  practically  all  Americans.  At  the 
court  I  would  thirdv  at)out  60  per  cent  would  be  Mexicans;  that  is,  in 
this  county. 

Q.  Now.  in  the  other  counties,  how  is  it? — A.  In  Valencia  Count}', 
those  with  whom  I  come  in  contact,  I  would  think  three-fourths,  maybe 
80  per  cent,  are  ^Mexicans. 

Q.  In  McKinley  County,  how  is  that? — A.  Valencia  County,  that  is 
one  of  the  strongest  Mexican  counties  in  the  Territoiy.  McKinley 
County  is  about,  I  would  think,  80  per  cent  Americans. 

Q.  Where  is  that  located? — A.  That  is  west;  Gallup  is  the  county 
seat. 

Q.  What  river  runs  through  that  county? — A.  I  do  not  think  they 
have  got  any  river. 

MEANING    OF    TER:M    "'AMERICAN.'- 

Q.  Is  that  a  mining  county? — A.  Yes,  sir;  very  heavy  coal  mines. 
Now,  when  I  use  the  term  "American"  I  mean  all  other  nationalities 
except  Mexicans. 

Q.  The  preponderance  of  Americans  in  McKinley  County  is  explained 
bj'  the  coal  mines  there,  is  it? — A.  No,  sir;  among  the  merchants  and 
among  the  ranchmen,  and  there  is  a  very  great  many  engaged  there 
in  the  Indian  business,  as  they  term  it—  the  blankets,  and  curios,  and 
evei\ything  of  that  kind. 

Q.  In  your  courts,  Judge,  in  the  trial  of  cases  ])efore  a  jury,  do  you 
hav^c  an  official  interpreter? — A.  All  the  time. 

Q.  You  have  him  here  now? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

DUTIES   OF   AN    INTERPRETER. 

Q.  The  duties  of  that  interpreter  are  what? — A.  Well,  he  interprets 
all  of  the  witnesses  that  can  not  talk  the  English,  and  if  he  does  talk 
English  and  there  are  Mexicans  on  the  jury  that  do  not  understand  the 
English  he  interprets  that. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    lULL.  47 

Q.  And  the  arQuinents  of  counsel? — A.  And  the  arouniciits  of 
counsel:  yes,  sii-.  Sometimes  we  have  a  jury  that  understands  the 
Eng-lish. 

ONE  CASE  TKIEl)  WITHOUT  INTEKTRETEK. 

Q.  Do  you  have  that  in  this  county? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  had,  I 
think,  one  of  the  twenty-four  that  did  not  understand  the  Enu'lish; 
and  if  you  get  thcnn  mixed  properly  once  in  a  while  you  have  a  jury 
that  is  all  right,  and  if  not  if  there  is  one  on  the  jury  that  does  not 
understand  the  English  we  have  to  use  the  interpreter. 

Q.  And  in  Valencia  County?— A.  I  would  thiidv  e\  erv  case. 

Q.   And  in  McKinley  County  how  is  it^ — A.   I  think  in  McKinley  ■ 
County  the  only  term  I  have  had  there  was  only  two  that  required  the 
interpreter  out  of  the  twenty-four. 

Q.  Have  j^ou  had  any  case  since  you  have  l)een  on  the  1)ench  when 
the  interpreter  was  not  used? — A.  I  think  in  McKinle}"  County.  That 
is  a  new  county  and  they  haven't  much  business. 

Q.  Altogether  in  the  three  counties,  since  you  began  your  official 
duties,  how  many  cases  have  you  tried  before  a  jury  without  an  inter- 
preter?— A.  I  declare  I  do  not  think  there  is  more  than  one. 

PROPORTION    OF   CRIMES. 

Q.  Taking  up  the  criminal  side  of  the  docket.  Judge,  what  would 
be  your  estimate  as  to  the  proportion  of  crimes,  not  as  distributed 
among  the  natives  and  Americans,  but  as  to  the  nature  of  the  cases, 
whether  larceny,  or  murder,  or  what;  what  percentage  constituted 
those  crimes,  if  you  know?  Give  a  rough  estimate. — A.  Well,  the 
criminal  business  is  very  light.  I  think  we  have  had  about — I  think 
only  four  murder  cases. 

Q.  That  is,  in  the  United  States  court? — A.  No,  sir;  in  both.  There 
was  one  in  the  United  States  court,  and  1  think — my  recollection  now 
is — three  in  the  others. 

CRIMINAL    DOCKET    HEAVIER    IN    TERRITORIAL   COL'RT. 

Q.  The  criminal  docket,  of  course,  is  necessarily  heaver  in  the  Ter- 
ritorial courts  than  in  the  Federal  courts^ — A.  About  the  same. 

LIQUOR   CASES. 

Q.  The  reason  1  have  stated  it  in  that  form  was  that  in  the  other 
two  districts  where  we  have  been  it  was  stated  to  be  that  way. — A.  It 
was  al)out  the  same,  on  account  of  indictments  for  selling  liquor  to 
the  Indians.  In  this  count}"  what  I  have  stated  is  true.  They  have  run 
up  in  num])ers  on  account  of  the  indictments  for  selling  liquor  to  the 
Indians;  they  have  run  up.  Well,  I  guess  may1)e  the  Territorial  is  a 
little  heavier;  but  we  will  do  all  the  criminal  business  in  this  county 
in  eight  days. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Nestor  Montc^ya,  first  having  been  dulv  sworn,  testitied  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman:  * 

Q.  You  may  state  to  the  committee  your  full  name  and  age. — A.  My 
name  is  Nestor  Montoya;  35  years  old. 


48  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  of  the  Territory  ? — A.  I  am. 

Q.  How  long-  have  you  acted  as  official  interpreter  of  the  courts?  - 
A.  For  a1)out  twenty  years. 

Q.  You  just  succeeded  from  one  judo-e  to  another  I' — A.  No,  sir:  I 
have  been  interpreter  in  different  districts. 

Q.   In  different  districts  of  the  Territory? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Your  duties  as  interpreter  consist,  as  the  committee  understand 
it.  of  interpreting-  the  testimon}'  of  witnesses  to  the  jury  and  the  court, 
and  the  arguments  of  counsel  to  the  jury  and  court? — A.  Arguments 
of  counsel  at  times  to  the  jury,  not  to  the  court. 

Q.  And  the  charg-e  of  the  court  to  the  jury? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

"COURT    INTERPRETER,''    A    REGULARLY    ESTABLISHED   OFFICE. 

Q,  That  is  a  regularly  established  office  \ — A.  It  is.  by  Territorial 
enactment. 

Q.  You  occasionally,  or  if  oftener  say  so.  gx)  into  the  jury  room, 
and  it  is  when  the  jury  consists  of  ^Mexicans,  so  called,  and  Americans, 
so  called,  in  order  to  interpret  between  them? — A.  Well,  on  veiy  rare 
exceptions;  generally  there  is  always  either  a  Mexican,  what  we  call 
Mexicans  here,  or  Americans,  what  we  call  Americans  here,  on  the 
jury  that  understand  both  languages.  But  1  think,  in  my  whole  expe- 
rience of  nearly  twenty  years,  I  have  l)een  in  the  jury  room  to  explain 
matters  between  the  Spanish-speaking  and  English-speaking  juries 
twice:  once  in  Colfax  County,  at  Springer,  and  the  other  time  at 
Sante  Fe. 

Q.  Colfax  (bounty  is  one  of  the  heaviest  American  comities,  is  it 
not? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

COMPOSITION    OF   JURIES. 

Q.  In  your  twenty  years'  experience  there  have  been  a  large  num- 
ber of  instances  where  the  jury  was  entirely  Mexican,  or  spoke  Span- 
ish?— A.  I  do  not  remember  of  but  one  jury — of  anv  jury,  except 
in  one  county  where  the  whole  jury — two  counties,  where  the  whole 
jury  was  Mexican.  That  was  in  Valenica  County,  the  next  county  to 
this,  and  in  Taos  County,  up  abo\"e. 

Q.  Where  has  your  experience  been  in  the  twenty  years? — A.  It 
has  been  in  the  first  judicial  district,  of  which  Sante  Fe  is  the  seat, 
and  in  the  fourth  judicial  district,  of  which  Las  Vegas  is  the  seat,  and 
in  this  district. 

Q.  When  did  you  go  into  the  jury  room  in  Colfax  County  ? — A.  I 
went  there  on  one  occasion;  that  was  about  1S8H.  I  believe. 

Q.  Y'ou  have  not  been  interpreter  in  that  district  within  recent 
years? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  A  gentleman  who  lives  in  Las  Vegas  is  interpreter  there  now? — 
A.  Y"es.  sir. 

Q.  The  Americans  are  more  numerous  there  now  than  formerly  ? — 
A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  So  that  there  would  be  more  Americans  on  a  jury  there  now 
than  during  the  long  period  you  speak  of? — A.  Y^es,  sir;  that  is  right. 

Q.  During  the  long  period  you  speak  of,  before  the  Americans  came 
down  here,  was  it  the  case  or  not  that  the  juries  were  nearly  all 
Mexicans? — A.   Not  in  that  countv. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  49 

Q.  Well,  1  am  speakino-  of  all  over  the  Territory. — A.  Well,  the 
majorities  of  the  jury  were  Spanish  speaking. 

WHEN    AN    INTERPRETER    IS    NEEDED    IN    THE    JURY    ROOM. 

Q.  In  other  words,  1  understand  that  where  an  interpreter  is  needed 
in  the  jury  room  it  is  where  some  member  of  the  jury  speaks  English 
and  can  not  speak  Spanish^ — A.  That  is  right.  And  therefore  they 
have  to  interpret  back  and  forth. 

Q.  Where  were  you  born? — A.  In  the  old  town  of  Albuquerque. 

Q.  That  is  largely  Mexican,  is  it  not? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  large  is  this  county  of  Bernalillo? — A.  Why,  the  extent  of 
the  county  nuist  be  about — from  Bernalillo  down  to  Isleta — about  70 
miles  north  and  south,  and  it  must  be  about  200  miles  east  to  west. 

Q.  Have  3^ou  been  pretty  well  over  the  count}^,  in*  the  country  dis- 
tricts?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  "^rhe  people  of  the  countrj-  districts  are  of  what  character  as  con- 
tradistinguished between  Mexican  and  American  ^ — A.  They  are 
mostly  Spanish-Americans.  What  we  call  Mexicans  are  scattered  Mexi- 
can ranches,  and  sheep  raising. 

Q.  The  business  of  these  people  out  in  the  country  districts  is 
chiefly  herding,  is  it  not!' — A.  It  is  chiefly  cattle  raising  and  sheep 
raising  and  farming. 

FARMING    ALONG    STREAMS. 

Q.  The  farming  is  done  mostly  along  the  streams? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.  Along  what  streams? — A.  In  the  valle^^  here,  and  also  they  have 
some  small  streams  in  the  east  part  of  the  county  and  in  the  west  part. 

THE    SANTA    FE    RIVER. 

Q.  We  saw  the  Santa  Fe  River  yesterday  at  Santa  Fe;  it  was  a 
little  stream  not  3  feet  wide.  Farming  is  mostly  along  the  streams,  and 
is  impossible  in  districts  away  from  these  streams,  is  it  not? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  it  is;  but  they  simply  farm  enough  to  raise  for  their  own  consump- 
tion, for  fodder  and  forage. 

HOW    OUT-DISTRICT   COUNTRY   PEOPLE    LIVE. 

Q.  The  committee  understands  that  in  the  country  districts  out 
away  from  the  towns  the  people,  instead  of  living  in  separate  houses, 
as  is  the  custom  up  in  other  States,  live  in  little  clumps  of  houses,  called 
villages? — A,   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Surrounded  by  a  wall? — A.  Oh,  no. 

Q.  They  live  together,  in  other  words '. — A.  Yes,  sir;  in  the  villages, 
although  some  of  the  villages  are  scattered:  a  man  has  a  ranch  here 
and  a  ranch  there,  and  a  village  2  or  3  miles  ofl'.  and  it  has  a  name. 

Q.  What  language  do  they  use  among  themselves? — A.  Well,  the 
Spanish  language;  yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

At  2  o'clock  p.  m.  the  committee  resumed  hearings  at  the  above- 
named  place. 

H   s   B 1: 


50  NEW    STATEHOOD    151 LL. 

G.  \V.  Metzoar,  tirst  hjivino-  |)eon  dul}^  .sworii,  testitied  as  follows 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  iiiiiy  state  to  the  committee  your  name  and  age. — A.  My 
name  is  G.  W.  Metzgar,  age  40. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  the  Territory? — A.  All  my  life. 

Q.  You  were  born  in  the  Territory? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  been  living  right  here? — A.  Half  the  time,  and  half 
the  time  6  miles  from  here. 

Q.  You  were  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  yours  a  country  district  or  a  town  district? — A.  It  was  a 
town  district,  I  think. 

Q.  Was  it  in  New  Albu([uer(|ue  or  the  old  town  ^— A.  It  was  in 
the  countr}'  jibout  8  miles. 

Q.  Eight  miles  in  what  direction?—  A.  North,  precinct  No.  2, 

CHARACTER   OF    POPULATION. 

Q.  At  a  rough  guess,  about  how  many  people  were  in  your  dis- 
trict?— A.  It  was  a  little  over  8(l(),  if  I  remember  right. 

Q.  What  was  the  character  of  that  population,  Mexican  or  Ameri- 
can, as  those  terms  are  used  down  here? — A.  About  medium. 

Q.  Do  30U  speak  Spanish? — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  What  language  did  vou  use  in  taking  the  census? — A.  I  used 
both. 

Q.  When  it  was  Spanish,  you  used  Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  the  occupation  of  the  people  in  your  census  district? — 
A.  Oh,  most  of  them  farmers. 

Q.  Is  that  along  the  Rio  Grande? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

FARMING    BY    IRRIGATION. 

Q.  They  farm  from  irrigation  along  the  rivei'? — A,   Yes.  sir. 

Q.  Are  the}'  small  or  large  farms :' — A.  Large  farms,  I  think. 

Q.  How  many  acres  in  a  farm  that  3'ou  call  a  large  farm? — A.  I 
call  a  farm  that  has  160  acres  a  l)ig  farm  for  this  countiy. 

Q.  When  3^ou  use  the  word  American  out  here  you  mean  all  other 
foreigners  except  the  Mexicans,  do  you? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  say  they  were  about  half  and  half  ?  — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Were  these  Americans — these  foreigners,  Americans  from  the 
States,  or  Germans,  or  what  were  they? — A.  Oh,  they  were  mostly 
native  Mexicans. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  Do  \'ou  mean  from  that  Americans  or  mostly  Mexicans? — A. 
Most  of  the  people  there  are  Mexicans. 

B,v  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Did  the  people  mostly  use  the  Spanish  language? — A.  No;  lots 
of  them  use  English. 

Q.  What  did  you  use  in  making  the  census? — A.  Most  of  them 
Spanish  and  English. 

Q.  Did  you  use  any  English  in  making  the  census  of  the  Mexicans  ? — 
A.  No,  sir;  alwaj's  Spanish. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  51 

Q.  Whiit  liuioiuigo  do  they  talk  among-  theni.selve.s ? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
Spanish, 

Q.  You  took  an  oath  before  3011  entered  upon  your  duties  to  hon- 
estly and  accurately  take  this  census,  did  you  not? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  take  the  census  according  to  your  oath,  truh'  and  hon- 
estly^— A.  Yes,  sir. 

CENSUS   COKKECT. 

Q.   Is  your  census  correct^ — A.   Yes.  sir;  I  tliink  so. 

A.  In  this  census  district  of  yours  are  there  any  country  schools? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  renieniher  the  names  of  any  of  the  teachers  out  there? — 
A.   I  do  not  remember  them  now. 

Q.   Were  3'ou  in  any  of  the  schoolhouses? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Ha\'e  you  been  in  any  of  the  schoolhouses  out  in  the  country  i  — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  from  personal  observation  what  is  taught  out 
in  the  country  schools? — A.  No,  sir.  When  I  learned  to  read  and 
write  m}^  father  had  a  school-teacher  of  his  own.  There  was  no 
schools  in  the  country  hardly  then. 

C.  When  was  that?— A.  That  was  in  ISTO.  I  was  ahout  S  or  9 
years  of  age. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Seferino  Ckollott,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

Bv  Senator  Dillixgham: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee, — A.  My  name  is 
Seferino  Crollott;  that  is  a  French  name. 

Q.  Where  do  vou  live? — A.  I  live  in  New  Albuquerque,  Bernalillo 
County. 

Q.  Were  you  a  census  enumerator? — A.  I  was  appointed  by  the 
general  superintendent  in  districts  3  and  4 — by  Mr.  Sanchez,  in 
July,  1900. 

Q.  Your  territory  covers  what  districts? — A.  Districts  3  and  4,  in 
Alameda  and  Sandia. 

Q.  Did  you  make  a  careful  and  full  enumeration  of  those  districts  ? — 
A.   I  did;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  made  a  correct  report  ? — A,  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  the  num})er  of  the  population  ? — A.  It  must 
have  been  about  fourteen  to  tiftecn  hundred. 

HALF  '•'American'"  and  half  ""Mexican." 

Q.  And,  in  point  of  race,  what  were  the  proportions? — A.  Well, 
some  of  them,  they  were  half  American  and  half  Mexican;  that  is  to 
say,  their  father  was  American  and  he  was  married  to  a  Mexican  lad3\ 

Q.  Can  3'ou  tell  us  about  what  proportion? — A.  Well,  the  average 
on  that  must  have  been,  in  1113"  two  districts,  between  110  and  115 
families. 

Q.  All  of  the  balance  of  the  population  was  Mexican  ? — A.  Well, 
most  all  of  the  balance. 


52  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  And  what  language  is  used  among  the  people  of  your  district? — 
A.  Well,  the  average  in  the  English  people  must  have  been  about 
45  per  cent. 

Q.  I  do  not  think  I  understand  you. — A.  About  45  per  cent  of  the 
of  the  population  there  speaks  the  P^nglish  language. 

OLDER   RESIDENTS   CAN    NOT   SPEAK   ENGLISH. 

Q.  And  the  balance  the  Spanish  language?  — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  old, 
old  Spanish  people  can  not  speak  it  at  all.  It  is  only  those  from 
18  down,  say,  from  21  down  to  0  or  7.  speaks  pretty  fair  English.  I 
found  a  good  many  there  from  45  to  50  that  could  speak  the  English 
pretty  well,  but  those  from  65  up  could  not  speak  it  at  all. 

Q.  Do  3"ou  know  anything  about  the  schools  there? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
1  visited  the  schools  there. 

ENGLISH    AND   SPANISH    TAUGHT. 

Q.  What  is  taught  there? — A.  They  are  taught  in  the  English  and 
Spanish  both. 

Q.  In  reading  and  writing? — A.  Yes,  sir;  both  in  the  same  way. 

Q.  When  they  take  up  grammar  and  history  and  geograph3%  what 
text-books  do  they  use? — A.  When  they  take  up  grammar  and  history 
and  geography  and  higher  mathematics  and  history- 

Q.  Are  they  in  English  or  Spanish? — A.  The  teaching  was  in  both 
languages,  English  and  Spanish. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Is  this  your  justice  of  the  peace  docket  ^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  are  you  justice  of  the  peace? — A.  In  the  old  town  of 
Albuquerque. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  a  justice  of  the  peace? — A.  I  have  been 
a  justice  of  the  peace  two  j'ears. 

Q.  Is  this  your  docket  [indicating  book]  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

DOCKET   MOSTLY    IN    SPANISH. 

Q.  I  see,  in  running  through  from  page  to  page,  that  there  is  qcca- 
sionalh'  the  record  of  a  case  kept  in  English  and  mostly  the  records 
are  in  Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir;  sometimes  I  make  it  in  Spanish  and 
English. 

Q.  Most  of  the  cases  are  written  in  Spanish. — A.  I  make  the  record 
of  a  case  in  English  or  Spanish.  Most  of  my  population  there  in  that 
precinct  are  Spanish,  ^^ou  see.  and  most  of  the  cases  are  in  Spanish. 

WHEN    TRANSCRIPTS    IN    ENGLISH. 

Q.  So  that  when  j'ou  have  a  case  in  Spanish  3'ou  keep  a  Spanish 
record? — A.  Yes,  sir;  although  the  transcript  into  this  court  I  make 
in  English. 

Q.  You  do  not  make  the  transcript  in  Spanish? — A.   No,  sir. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  53 


FEW    ENGLLSII    CASES. 


Q,  There  are  comparatively  few  Eiio-Hsh  cases  here? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
they  are  very  few, 

Q.   In  the  cases  that  you  try  before  a  jury A.  There  are  very 

few  tried  before  a  jury. 

Q.  Mostly  before  you?— A.  Yes,  sir. ^ 

Q.  You  speak  both  languages? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  do  not  need  an  interpreter?— A.  No,  sir;  unless  the 
parties  that  come  before  me  can  not  speak  both  languages. 

Q.  That  does  not  occur  very  often? — A.  No,  sir. 

CASES   OF   ASSAULT    PREDOMINATE. 

Q.  What  are  most  of  your  cases  for? — A.  Well,  the  most  of  them 
is  for  assault.     1  hardly  get  a  case  for  larceny. 

Q.  Have  you  schools  out  there  in  your  district? — A.  Yes,  sir;  we 
have. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  the  names  of  any  of  the  teachers  out  there? — 
A.   Well,  the  school  is  under  the  management  of  the  Sisters. 

Q.  Both  English  and  Spanish  are  taught,  ars  they?— A.  Yes,  sir; 
both  Spanish  and  English. 

Q.  The  people  in  their  homes  speak  Spanish? — A.  Well,  my  chil- 
dren I  have  in  their  schools — I  have  seven  children,  and  they  speak 
the  Spanish  language,  ))ut  they  read  and  write  in  English.  My  wife 
is  Spanish,  of  course. 

Q.  Do  the  people  before  you  speak  Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Modesto  C.  Ortiz,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  and  age  to  the  committee. — A.  My 
name  is  Modesto  C.  Ortiz,  40  years  of  age. 

Q.  You  were  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.   You  are  a  native  New  Mexican? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  was  your  census  district? — A.  It  was  the  upper  town,  in 
the  old  town  of  Albuquerque. 

Q.  How  many  people  were  there  in  your  census  district  ? — A.  Eleven 
hundred  and  twent3"-tive. 

ENGLISH    USED. 

Q.  What  language  did  j^ou  use  in  taking  the  census? — A.  The  Eng- 
lish language. 

Q.  Altogether  in  the  old  town  of  Albucpierque?  Do  you  speak 
Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  do. 

Q.  What  did  most  of  the  people  speak  in  the  district  where  you 
took  the  census? — A.  English. 

Q.  The  most  of  the  people? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  their  own  homes? — A.  Well,  in  their  own  homes  they  used 
their  own  language. 

Q.  And  the  Spanish  is  your  own  language  ( — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  yet,  although  that  was  their  language  and  your  language 
too,  you  took  the  census  in  English? — A.  I  took  it  in  English  in  some 
instances,  of  course.     My  question  was  in  my  own  language  also. 

Q.  You  did  not,  in  api)roaching  the  Mexican  population  there,  you 


54  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

(lid  not  use  th(>  laii<;-UiiuT  that  they  used  and  that  you  used,  you  used 
English:: — ^A.  When  I  approached  my  own  pi^ople,  1  used  the  native 
language. 

NATIVK    TOXdUE    USED    IN    MAJORITY    OE   CASES. 

Q.  So  that  in  a  majority  of  cases  you  used  the  native  language?  — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  took  an  oath  to  faithfully  and  honestly  and  correctly  take 
the  census? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  so  take  the  census? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

EsLAVio  Vigil,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Y'ou  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
Eslavio  Vigil. 

Q.   Wei-e  you  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  How  old  are  you? — A.  Thirty-eight  years. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  New  Mexican  ? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  Where  was  your  census  district  located? — A.  In  district  No.  5, 
in  Barillas,  in  Bernalillo  County. 

Q.  Where  is  that  from  here? — A.  AI)out  half  a  uiile  from  here, 
joining  the  city  limits. 

Q.  Is  it  in  what  is  known  as  the  Mexican  town? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  many  people  were  in  your  district? — A.  About  1,500. 

Q.  That  is  in  the  Mexican  town^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  taking  your  census  of  this  population  you  used,  in  your 
questions,  what  language? — A.  In  some  cases,  English.  Most  of  the 
people  there  they  are  taught  in  the  English  a  good  many  years,  and 
lots  of  that  people  don't. 

Q.   Spanish  is  your  ow^n  language? — A.  Y^es.  sir. 

SPANISH    THE    LAxXGUAGE    OF   THE   MASSES. 

Q.  And  Spanish  is  the  language  of  the  masses  of  the  people  out 
there?— A.  Yes,  sir:  yes,  sir. 

Q.  Now,  that  being  the  case,  when  you  went  to  question  these  people 
who  use  the  Spanish  language,  and  that  being  your  own  tongTie.  do 
you  mean  to  tell  the  committee  that  you  used  the  English  instead  of 
the  Spanish  in  taking  that  census? — A.  No,  sir;  no.  sir. 

Q.  You  used  the  Spanish? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  live  out  there? — A.  Y"es,  sir;  I  live  right  there. 

Q-  Y^ou  took  an  oath  to  take  this  census  correctly^ — A.  Y''es,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  do  so? — A.  Y^es.  sir. 

CENSUS   CORRECT. 

Q.  Your  census  is  correct? — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  The  language  which  the  people  use  in  their  homes  out  there  is 
what? — A.  The  most  of  it  is  in  Mexican. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.   Do  3'ou   fill   anv  official   position    now^ — A.   No;    1   am   on  the 
school  board,  I  am  the  clerk  of  the  school  board,  and  I  am  elected  at 
this  last  election  school  superintendent  of  the  county. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  55 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  are  the  newly  elected  .school  superiTitendent  of  this  county  ? — 
A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  you  familiar  with  the  countr}'  districts  of  this  county,  the 
districts  outside  of  the  town^ — A.  Yes,  sir;  yes.  sir. 

OCCUPATIOX    OF   THE    PEOPLE. 

Q.  Along-  the  river  the  committee  understands  that  the  people  are 
engaged  in  small  farming  by  irrig-ation? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  But  away  from  the  river  the  people  are  engaged  in  herding  of 
one  kind  and  another;  is  that  correct? — A.  Yes,  sir;  some  in  herds  and 
some  in  farming. 

Q.  How  can  they  be  engaged  in  farming  away  from  the  water 
courses? — A.  Well,  sometimes  we  have  the  water  until  June  and  July, 
and  we  raise  a  crop  of  wheat. 

Q.  Out  on  the  mesa  what  do  thev  do? — A.  They  generally  have  it 
witliout  any  irrigation. 

Q.  Do  they  raise  wheat  without  irrigation  on  the  mesa  and  on  the 
mountains? — A.  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  The  people  in  the  country  districts  outside  are  of  what  nature  as 
to  their  race,  Mexican  or  American,  as  we  use  those  terms  down 
here? — A.  They  are  Mexicans. 

Q.  They  live,  as  the  committee  understand  it,  not  in  separate  houses 
.some  miles  apart,  but  in  little  clumps  of  houses;  is  that  correct? — A. 
Ko;  they  have  adobe  houses. 

LIAE    IN    NEIGHBORHOODS. 

Q.  But  those  are  in  a  little  neighborhood  together? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  language  by  the  country  people  out  in  the  country  is  wdiat? — 
A.  1  will  explain  myself  a  little  further  about  that.  Some  of  them 
have  them  close  together  and  some  of  them  do  not;  the}"  have  their 
houses  on  their  own  farms,  separated. 

Q.  What  is  the  majority  of  cases? — A.  The  majority  of  cases,  out- 
side on  the  mountains,  outside  of  the  Rio  Grande,  the}'  have  them  on 
their  OW'U  farms. 

Q.  But  along  the  Rio  Grade  they  are  in  clumps? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  the  language  that  the  people  use  among  themselves? — 
A.  The  Mexican  language. 

Q.  Are  there  schools  out  in  the  country? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Can  you  remember  any  of  the  names  of  the  teachers  out  in  the 
country  schools  ? — A.  Yes.  sir;  lean  tell  you  some  of  the  names  of 
tliem. 

Q.  Have  you  got  a  list  of  all  the  country  teachers? — A.  1  have  not 
got  it  with  me. 

Q.  It  can  be  procured? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

WHAT   IS    TAUGHT   IN    THE    SCHOOLS. 

Q.  The  studies  taught  to  the  children  in  those  country  schools  are 
what? — A.  English. 

Q.  You  have  arithmetic? — A.  They  taught  English  in  their  school. 
Q.  Do  they  also  teach  geography? — A.  Yes,  sir;  and  grannnar. 


5(5  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.   And  do  tli(\v  tc:u'h  English? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  thov  toiicli  Spaiiisli  ?  — A.  No,  sir;  they  are  prevented  from 
teacliino"  Spanish  in  all  the  schools  here.  We  do  not  get  Mexican 
hooks  to  teach  the;  language.  They  request  that  they  want  to  learn 
the  language.  We  have  our  own  children  that  learn  the  English  lan- 
guage. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  in  th(>  country  districts  of  this  county? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  in  this  county.  We  have  not  had — for  four  years  I  have  been  on 
the  school  board,  and  we  have  not  got  a  single  book;  we  have  Spanish 
and  English. 

And  fui'ther  the  witness  saith  not. 

WiLLL\M  BoKOHERT,  tirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  Senator  Dillincjiiam: 

Q.  You  may  state  to  the  committee  your  name,  age,  and  residence. — 
A.  Aly  name  is  William  Borchert;  Albuquerque;  age,  62. 

Q.  And  30U  are  a  justice  of  the  peace? — A.  I  am,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  a  justice  of  the  peace? — A.  Since  last 
July. 

Q.  You  reside  in  what  they  call  the  American  city — the  new  city  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  Albuquerque. 

Q.  Have  you  your  dockets  with  you? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have  brought 
my  own  record  that  1  have  kept.  My  office  is  appointive.  1  was 
appointed  in  July  to  till  out  the  term  of  my  predecessor,  last  July. 

Q.  Now,  what  is  your  jurisdiction ;  over  what  territory  ? — A.  Simply 
precinct  20,  here  in  Albuquerque. 

Q.  Your  jurisdiction  is  confined  to  that? — A.  Well,  it  is  anything 
in  the  county.  1  was  appointed  in  precinct  26,  but  my  jurisdiction 
extends  all  over  the  coiuity. 

Q.  The  cases  coming  before  you  are  from  that  precinct? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  generally.  Sometimes  they  come  to  us  on  change  of  venue,  or  in 
the  al)sence  of  the  justices  in  the  other  precincts. 

Q.  The  large  majority  of  the  people  in  that  precinct  are  Mexicans? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  we  have  a  very  few  Americans. 

HIS   OWN    INTERPRETER. 

Q.  Do  you  speak  both  languages? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  am  my  own 
interpreter. 

Q.  Have  you  always  lived  in  the  Territor}'? — A.  I  have  lived  here 
for  thirty-five  years. 

Q.  What  class  of  criminal  offenses  predominates? — A.  V/ell,  sir,  I 
have  had  but  very  few  criminal  cases,  and  those  are  simply  assault  and 
battery,  or  something  of  that  kind;  petty  criminal  offenses.  I  have 
committed  one  or  two  men  to  jail,  but  that  is  about  the  amount  of  it. 

Q.  In  certain  classes  of  cases  you  have  a  right' to  determine  the 
puiiishment  for  criminal  offenses,  and  in  others  to  bind  them  over  to 
a  higher  court? — A.  Yes,  sir;  to  l)ind  them  over  to  the  grand  jury  of 
the  district. 

Q.  Of  what  class  of  cases  do  you  have  final  jurisdiction? — A.  Well, 
simply  misdemeanors,  or  something  of  that  kind.  In  all  cases  of 
felonies  we  bind  them  over  to  the  grand  jury.     In  civil  cases  our  juris- 


NEW  statp:h()()D  bill.  57 

diction  goes  in  all  eases  to  one  hundred  dollars — a  little  less  than  one 
hundred  dollars. 

Q.  The  records  in  this  docket  of  yours  are  all  kept  in  EnoH.sh,  are 
they  noti* — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q,  Do  you  have  authority  to  commit  persons  to  jail  who  are  con- 
victed of  misdemeanors^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  the  limit  of  a  jail  sentence  which  you  may  imposed— 
A.  About  six  months,  I  think,  is  the  limit  of  my  jurisdiction^ — impris- 
onment of  six  months  in  the  county  jail. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

A.  J.  Crawford,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 
By  Senator  Dillingham. 

Q.  You  may  state  3^our  name  to  the  connnittee. — A.  My  name  is 
A.  J.  Crawford. 

Q.  You  live  in  this  city,  of  course? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  police  judge  here? — A.  I  have  hekl 
this  office  for  eight  years. 

Q.  Have  you  your  record  here? — A.  Yes,. sir.  There  is  the  record 
there  which'  will  show  every  case  tried  in  the  police  court  for  live 
years. 

PREVALENCE    OF    CRIMES. 

Q.  Have  you  sufficient  familiarity  with  your  record  so  that  you  can 
state  to  us  the  various  crimes  that  are  charged  and  the  proportion  in 
which  each  one  prevails? — A.  Well,  sir,  we  have  had — there  is  court 
here  twice  a  year,  and  we  have  about  fifteen  to  seventeen  felonies 
bound  over  to  the  grand  jury  each  term,  and  perhaps  two-thirds  of 
them  are  convicted. 

Q.  And  of  those  cases  which  are  felonies,  Avhat  are  the  cases? — A. 
Well,  larcenies  from  stores  and  shops,  and  a  few  cases  of  assault  to 
kill,  and  some  few  burglaries.  These  l)urglaries  and  larcenies  are 
entirely  from  the  foreign  population — the  wandering  population  going- 
through  to  the  coast  and  going  back.  Burglaries  by  natiAC  people,  or 
people  residing  here,  are  very  rare.  We  have  a  few  assault  to  kill 
cases  among  our  people  here.  Carrying  concealed  weapons  is  almost 
entirely  unknown. 

FEW  ARRESTS. 

Q.  Are  assaults  the  most  frequent  class  of  cases? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
With  five  or  six  thousand  people  here  during  the  whole  of  the  fair 
week  I  do  not  think  we  had  l)ut  a  few  arrests. 

Q.  Al)out  what  is  the  number  of  cases  determined  by  you  in  the 
course  of  a  year? — A.  Well,  they  average  about  one  hundred  and 
twenty-live,  or  fifty  a  month — that  is,  everything.  There  are  a  great 
man}^  of  these — that  is,  these  tramps — that  come  through,  and  we  pick 
them  up  to  rush  them  through, 

Q.  Y^ou  have  jurisdiction  of  civil  cases,  too? — A.  Yes,  sir;  up  to 
$100. 

Q.  And  how  many  civil  cases? — A.  We  get  very  few  in  our  court. 
There  is  a  case  of  "murder  there;  the  district  attorney  drew  up  an 
indictment  of  murder  in  the  third  degree.  It  was  really  an  accident  — 
a  little  bov  ran  under  a  vehicle  during  the  fair. 


58  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  Do  you  koop  your  records  entirely  in  Eng'li.sh? — A.  Oh,  yes; 
yes.  sii\ 

Q.  What  aie  these  nuisance  cases  here? — A.  Those  people  were  up 
for  ui'inatino'  in  the  alleys  and  streets. 

Q.  There  is  one  here  for  keeping"  a  public  nuisance. — A.  He  had 
ids  premises  in  an  unsanitary  condition. 

NO   CASE    FOR   CARKYINO    CONCEALED   WEAl'ONS. 

Q.  You  have  an  orderly  community,  1  believe? — A.  I  have  not  had 
a  case  before  me  for  carrying-  concealed  weapons,  I  do  not  think,  for  a 
3^ear.     We  have  a  very  orderly  conmiunitv. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

William  J.  Oliver,  iirst  having-  been  duly  sworn,  testitied  as 
follows: 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  You  mav  state  vour  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Mv  name  is 
William  J.  Ol'iver. 

Q.  You  reside  in  this  city  !■ — A.  At  the  Indian  school,  two  miles  and 
a  half  north  of  the  city. 

Q.  Are  you  connected  wdth  the  school!^ — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  am  clerk  of 
the  school. 

Q.  Well,  tell  us  alwut  it;  whom  you  have  there,  and  how  many, 
juid  so  forth, — A.   We  usually  have  about  from  3U()  to  3:^5. 

Q.  And  of  what  tribe  ^— A.'  Mostly  Puel)lo  and  Navaho. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  What  percentage  of  the  Pueblo  children  have  you,  probabl}-?  — 
A.   Eighty-five  per  cent  of  them  are  Pueblo. 

Q.  Well,  what  percentage  of  the  entire  Pueblo  tribe  have  you  of 
the  children  of  school  age? — A.   I  could  not  answer  that. 

extent  of  the  pueblo. 

Q.  You  do  not  know  what  the  extent  of  the  tribe  is? — ^A.  Well, 
thev  include  so  many — there  are  so  many — they  have  branches  of  the 
Pueblo  that  are  scattered  all  over  the  Territory.  The  Indians  that 
live  collectively  in  villages  are  styled  Pueblo,  and  there  so  many  of 
them  in  the  Territory. 

Q.  Have  you  any  idea  how  many  there  are  of  those? — A.   No,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  any  idea  of  how  many  Navaho  you  have  in  this 
Territory? — A.  Well,  they  are  on  the  reservation  and  I  could  not 
tell  3'ou. 

Q.  And  you  have  some  of  the  Navaho  children  there? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  there  any  Indian  schools  in  the  Territor}",  outside  of  this 
school? — A.  Yes,  sir;  we  have  one  at  Santa  Fe  and  one  at  Dolce;  it  is 
a  ))()arding-  school;  both  are  ])oarding-  schools. 

what  the  INDIANS  ARE  TAUGHT. 

Q.  Wliat  do  you  teach  the  children  at  school? — A.  We  teach  them 
English,  and  take  them  through  the  school  to  about  the  eighth  grade 
of   this  school,   and  we   teach   them   industries — carpentering,  black- 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  59 

.smithino-,  .shoemaking,  tailorino-,  and  harness  making,  and  for  the  girls 
the  domestic  sciences. 

Q.  How  long  since  this  school  was  established  here^--A.  About 
.sixteen  3'ears. 

(^.  Have  you  some  idea  of  what  these  Indians  do  after  they  leave 
schools — A.  Yes,  sir;  we  keep  track  of  some  of  tliem,  and  a  number 
of  them  are  doing  very  well.  Some  of  them  are  there  as  employees, 
and  are  doing  nicel}\ 

SOME  GO  BACK  TO  THE  BLANKET. 

Q.  Do  they  go  back  to  the  ])lanket  in  great  numbers? — A.  Some  of 
them  do;  ves,  sir. 

Q.  What  kind  of  citizens  do  they  make? — A.  Very  good,  some  of 
them,  while  some  of  those  who  have  gone  back  to  the  blanket  have  not 
turned  out  very  well. 

Q.  What  do  they  follow  after  they  leave  the  school — the  Puel)los? — 
A.  Pretty  largely  agriculture  and  stock  raising. 

Q.  And  the  Navajo? — A.  They  roam  about  over  the  re.-^ervation 
with  their  sheep,  and  when  they  can  get  any  water  thev  raise  a  little 
corn. 

INDIAN  CHILDREN  APT  SCHOLARS 

Q.  Are  these  Indian  children  apt  scholars? — A.  Many  of  them  are, 
among  the  Navaho. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  Did  you  do  anything  for  the  census? — A.   Yes,  sir;  I  enumerated 
for  the  school. 

Q.  For  the  school,  simply? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

C.  F.  Myers,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testitied  as  follows: 
By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  You  mav  state  vour  ntmie  to  the  committee. — A.  Mv  name  is 
C.  F.  Myers.  '  ' 

Q.  And  your  official  position  is  what? — A.  Mayor  of  Albuquerque. 

Q.  Since' when? — A.  Since  the  term  of  office  commenced,  in  April 
this  year. 

Q.  And  how  long  have  vou  been  a  citizen  here? — A.  Since  May, 
1SS9;  the  18th  day  of  May. " 

ALBUQUERQUE    AS    A   CITY. 

Q.  We  would  like  to  have  you,  in  3'our  own  way,  make  a  statement 
about  your  city — its  character  and  growth,  and  anything  that  suggests 
itself  to  you  as  l)eing  important. — A.  It  is  what  you  might  call  strictly 
an  American  city,  as  it  is.  We  have  eight  aldermen,  two  from  each 
ward.  We  have  a  city  clerk,  as  a  matter  of  course,  and  treasurer, 
and  so  on. 

Q.  And  a  population  of  what? — A.  It  is.  I  judge,  between  seven 
and  eight  thousand.  I  think  the  ballot  was  al)out  thirteen  hundred 
votes  this  last  election. 


(30  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q,  And  the  proportion  of  Americans? — A.  In  the  city  here  there 
are  very  few  Mexicans;  very  few,  indeed. 

Q.   Is  the  old  town  part  of  the  cit}'? — A.  It  is  not;  no,  sir. 

(^.  How  laro-e  is  the  old  town? — A.  Well,  1  can  hardly  say;  it  is  a 
.small  place,  thouo'h.  Senator.  I  should  say  that  there  may  be  a  thou- 
sand inhabitants  over  there,  but  they  are  almost  entirely  Mexicans. 
There  are  more  Mexicans  there;  a  few  German  gardeners,  and  a  few 
French  people,  but  the  majority  of  them  are  Mexicans. 

MUNICIPAL   AFFAIRS. 

Q.  (lO  along-  with  your  statement  as  to  your  city.  -A.  We  conduct 
our  aliairs  here  very  much  on  the  order  that  they  do  back  East.  We 
have  waterworks  here,  owned  by  a  corporation.  We  have  our  light 
plant,  both  electric  and  gas,  owned  by  a  corporation.  We  have 
granted  a  franchise  foi'  an  electric  street  railway.  They  have  put  up 
a  thousand  dollars  for  the  franchise  granted  by  the  city  council.  We 
have  our  city  physician.  We  have  four  ward  schools  here,  with  two 
additional  for  the  overflow  pupils  in  two  wards.  We  have  a  central 
high  school  and  we  have  a  university.  We  have,  I  think,  1,250  pupils 
enrolled  at  the  beginning  of  the  school  year,  in  September.  We  have 
a  bonded  indebtedness  in  the  city  of  1^168, (>()0.  Sixty-live  thousand 
dollars  of  that  indebtedness,  if  I  remember  right,  was  bonded  in  1889 
at  5  per  cent. 

BONDED    INDEBTEDNESS. 

Q.  What  was  that  money  used  for? — A.  It  was  used  to  take  up  old 
indebtedness,  our  old  scrip  and  outstanding  debts,  and  the  same  year 
there  was  another  issue  of  bonds  made  at  4  per  cent  for  |33,0()0.  Last 
3'ear  we  refunded  some  ^.50,0UO  for  building  a  sewer  s^^stem  in  the  city. 
The  original  bonds  that  were  issued  for  the  building  of  the  sewer — I 
think  it  was  in  1891 — they  were  6  per  cent  bonds,  and  we  replaced 
them  last  yqhv  at  4  per  cent.  Last  year  we  also  issued  $15,000  worth 
of  bonds  at  5  per  cent  for  defraying  our  portion  of  the  expense  of 
building  our  portion  of  this  viaduct  acrosss  the  tracks.  The  Santa  Fe 
bore  the  other  half. 

Q.  What  is  your  assessed  valuation?— A.  $2,100,000. 

Q.  And  what  per  cent  of  that  would  vour  entire  indebtedness  amount 
to?— A.  Our  indebtedness  is  $ltJ3,000  as  compared  to  $2,100,000, 

TAX    RATE, 

(^.  How  is  your  property  assessed  here;  at  full  value? — A.  No,  sir; 
it  is  not  assessed  at  full  value.  The  rate  of  taxation  in  the  city  here — 
I  am  not  postive,  but  I  think  it  is  $0.1415  for  city  purposes.  Of  course 
there  is  a  portion  of  that  goes  for  the  support  of  our  public-school 
system. 

Q.  What  is  the  entire  rate  of  taxation  ? — A.  Territorial,  county,  and 
municipal,  $5,815,  I  have  given  these  matters  consideral)lc  study 
since  I  have  been  in  there. 

Q.  Do  3'ou  have  a  lire  department? — A.  Yes,  sir;  we  have.  We 
have  a  very  well  e(|uipped  department.  We  have  no  steam  engines; 
we  have  sufficient  pressure  from  the  plugs. 

Q.  Do  \'ou  have  a  chemical  engine? — A.   Yes,  sir;  sve  have  a  chem- 


NEW  stat?:hood  bill.  61 

icsil  eii*>ino.  We  have  a  captain  of  the  fire  department  and  two 
assistants;  and  tlie  chairman  of  the  tire  committee  of  the  council  acts 
as  chief. 

INDUSTRIES. 

Q.  What  are  the  industries  of  tlie  city  ( — A.  The  big-  bulk  is  the 
Santa  Fe  shops;  they  employ  a  great  number  of  men.  We  have  a 
planing  mill  here,  a  small  one,  of  small  capacity;  we  have  two  flour- 
ing mills;  we  have  a  large  brewery  here;  an  ice  factory.  Of  course 
we  have  our  light  from  our  gas  works  and  our  waterworks,  and  we 
are  now  buikling  a  large  woolen  mill;  they  are  putting  it  up  at  the 
present  time. 

Q.  I  notice  you  have  good  stores  in  the  city.  Where  does  the  trade 
come  from? — A.  From  all  about  the  country.  I  am  in  the  hardware 
business  m^'self,  and  do  a  jobbing  business.  We  send  goods  west  of 
here  as  far  as  ^^'illiams,  Ariz.;  we  ship  stuff  south  of  here  as  far  as 
Silver  City.  That  is  just  about  275  or  280  miles  south  of  here,  and  of 
course  there  are  all  these  towns  along  the  road  between  these  points. 
I  do  business,  and,  in  fact,  all  the  jobbers  here  do  business  up  as  far  as 
Colorado — just  across  the  line  into  Colorado  on  the  north. 

ELEMENTS    FOR   FUTURE    GROWTH. 

Q.  If  you  have  in  mind  any  elements  which  you  think  will  make  for 
the  future  growth  of  the  city  you  may  state  those. — A.  A^'ell.  they 
are  now  building  a  line  of  railroad,  called  the  Santa  Fe  Central — in 
fact,  the  road,  as  I  understand,  the  road  is  all  graded  that  will  connect 
the  Denver  and  Rio  Grande  at  Santa  Fe  with  the  Rock  Island  at  Tor- 
rence,  N.  Mex.,  and  it  is  the  intention  to  connect  with  it  about  32 
miles  east  of  here,  which  will  put  us  in  connection  with  the  Rock 
Island.  The  Santa  Fe  is  going  to  build  a  cut-off  from  the  line  at 
Roswell  to  connect  with  a  point  on  the  Atlantic  and  Pacific,  and  that 
will  materially  aid  the  growth  of  this  town.  This  railroad  building 
will  require  a  great  deal  of  money,  and  much  of  that  will  find  its  way 
to  this  cit}'. 

THE    SURROUNDING    COUNTRY. 

Q.  Tell  us  about  the  surrounding  countrv  for  20  or  30  miles;  what 
is  the  occupation  of  the  inhabitants? — A.  It  is  almost  entirely  wool, 
outside  of  mining.  They  bring  their  wool  in  from  points  east  00  miles, 
and  northwest  of  us  here  from  towns  as  far  as  75  or  80  miles,  by 
wagons.  I  have  seen  one  wagon-train  load  of  17<>,000  pounds  from 
one  producer.     It  is  veiy  largely  a  grazing  country,  mostly  for  sheep. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  What  is  the  extent  of  the  farming,  grain  and  grass  raising,  and 
so  on? — A.  It  is  limited.  It  is  almost  entirely  on  this  Rio  Grande 
Valley,  and  it  is  only  limited  owing  to  the  fact  that  there  is  so  few 
engaged  in  it.  I  know  of  several  French  and  German  people  engaged 
in  that  line  that  do  well. 

Q.  Was  there  anv  wheat  raised  in  this  coiuitrv^ — A.  Yes.  sir;  lots 
of  it. 

Q.  With  or  without  irrigation? — A.  With  irrigation;  our  wheat 
raised  here  at  a  point  32  luiles  south,  at  a  point  called  Belin,  took  the 
first  prize  at  the  World's  Fair  in  1893. 


62  NKW    STATKIIOOD    KILL. 

Q.  Do  you  i-iiise  any  without  irrioation  at  all? — A.  1  do  not  know; 
I  have  an  idea  that  they  do  in  the  mountains,  where  they  have  these 
little  streams,  and  the  soil  is  more  or  less  dani])  all  the  time. 

My  ideas  al>out  statehood  are  that  if  we  ac(|uii'e  statehood  it  will 
hrino-  us  an  influx  of  American  people.  It  will  hrino-  lots  of  capital 
lu'i-e  to  open  U))  our  min(>s.  We  have  lots  of  oood  minino-  property 
her(>.  and  capital  will  not  conn^  in  since  we  are  ii  Territory. 

AMKKICAX    POPULATION. 

Q.  What  is  the  extent  of  the  American  population,  or  all  of  the 
population  outside  of  Mexican,  in  this  Territory^ — A.  I  could  not  tell 
you  how  many;  the  census  will  show.  You  take  the  town  of  Silver 
City,  below  here,  it  is  entirely  American;  you  may  take  our  city  here, 
it  is  entirely  American;  you  take  the  city  of  Las  Vet>-as,  it  is  entirely 
American,  while  the  old  town  is  almost  exclusively  Mexican.  You 
take  the  city  of  Las  Cruc(\s,  only  a  great  many  Mexicans  there. 
Demino-  is  almost  entirely  American;  Gallup  is  almost  entirely 
American. 

Q.   Do  you  have  nuich  of  a  transient  population? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  But  the  country  people  are  mostl}'  Mexicans? — A.  Yes,  sir;  a 
great  deal  more.  There  are  very  few  Americans  engaged  in  sheep 
raising  has  been  asked;  there  are  lots  of  theuL  You  take  east  of 
here,  in  that  Chilili  country,  and  it  is  entirely  Scotch  and  Americans 
in  the  sheep  business. 

DEVELOPMENT   OF   COUNTRY. 

By  Senator  Dillinghan: 
_Q.  But  the  thing  that  you  have  in  mind  is  the  opening  of  the 
mines  ^— A.  Yes,  sir;  and  the  opening  and  development  of  the  country. 
You  take  this  Rio  Grande  lliver,  they  can  go  up  to  a  point  up  here 
some  8H  or  4(1  miles,  and  where  they  come  to  bed  rock,  the  bottom  of 
the  river,  and  they  put  in  a  large  dam  and  catch  the  water.  You  take 
it  ])elow  that  dam  wh(Mi  it  liows  through  this  sandy  soil,  this  sandy 
country,  the  water  goes  through  and  is  below  the  surface.  And  the 
company  that  started  that  figured  that  they  could  dam  the  river  up 
there,  at  what  they  call  the  Rocky  Canyon,  they  could  bring  the  water 
down  over  this  mesa  here,  and  irrigate  the  whole  valley  here.  We 
think  that  we  can  only  get  the  capital  to  do  that  hy  statehood.  You 
take  our  gardeners  over  in  the  old  town,  when  the  river  is  dry  they 
have  their  pumps  and  engines.  They  have  a  square  well  down"  to  the 
river— down  to  the  level  of  the  water",  and  they  ha\e  always  got  a  crop, 
while  the  Mexicans  who  do  not  do  that  have  lio  crops.  The  Mexicans 
here,  of  course,  the  big  majority  of  them,  are  illiterate;  that  is,  the 
older  class  of  them.  We  have  some  of  them  among  the  better  class 
of  peo])le  that  are  as  bright  and  well  educated  as  the  average  citizen. 
The  trouble  with  old  timers  is  that  they  had  no  school  facilities.  Up 
to  1880,  when  the  Sante  Fe  road  came  up  here,  they  were  cut  off  from 
the  world,  and  they  had  no  chance  at  the  schools"  until  we  got  the 
railroad  here.  And  the  young  peoi)le  in  the  Mexican  families  grow- 
ing up.  we  have  the  schools  in  all  the  little  hamlets,  and  the  church, 
and  1  am  satisfied  it  is  only  a  few  years  luitil  you  will  find  the  young 
Mexicans  growing  up  here,  they  will  l)e  all  ri"ght.     We  have  as  good 


NEW    STATEHOOD    151 LL.  63 

srhools  here  in  the  eity  as  we  have  anywliere.  I  was  raised  in  St. 
Louis  myself,  and  1  have  a  boy  in  the  middle  of  the  high  sehool  here 
who  is  14:  years  old,  and  I  went  baek  there  last  year  \yith  him  to  visit, 
and  some  of  his  eousins  there  was  talking-  a])out  being  in  the  ninth 
grade,  and  they  were  not  as  far  advanced  as  he  was,  and  he  was  ''josh- 
ing" them  al)out  it. 

"the    MEXICAN.'' 

Q.  Are  these  Mexicans  slow  a))oiit  paying  th(Mr  taxes?  Do  they 
object  to  that^ — A.  I  do  not  know  about  that.  I  know  the  county  is 
on  a  cash  basis.  They  did  not  think  of  taxing  themselves  for  school 
purposes  until  the  Americans  came  in.  I  do  not  know  about  that,  but 
I  suppose  that  is  about  right.  They  catch  on  to  the  Americans'  ways 
and  they  pattern  after  them.  When  I  Hyst  came  here  in  1889— since 
that  time  there  has  been  a  wonderful  improvement  in  the  Mexicans. 

Q.   Do  you  do  any  credit  business? — A.  Yes.  .sir;  lots  of  it. 

" '  MEXICANS ''    TRUSTWORTHY. 

Q.  Do  you  tind  the  Mexicans  trustw^orthy  ?— A.  Yes,  sii-.  There  is 
one  thingabout  the  Mexican,  as  a  rale;  he  will,  as  a  rule,  pay  his  bills. 
Of  course  you  will  find  lilack  sheep  among  them,  but  most  of  the  mer- 
chants here  would  rather  trust  a  Mexican  than  an  American.  Men 
will  get  jobs  here  in  these  shops,  and  they  will  be  here  for  a  month,  or 
six  weeks,  or  six  months,  or  a  .vear,  and  they  go  away,  and  they  will 
have  l)ills  here,  and,  as  the  l)oys  say,  somebody  is  holding  the  sack.  I 
have  sold  them  thousands  of  dollars  worth  of  goods,  and  they  have 
never  yet  made  an  objection  to  making  a  bill  of  sale  for  whatever  they 
got,  a  wagon  or  a  farming  imi)lement  of  some  kind,  for  what  they  get, 
making  a  cash  payment  and  giving  a  bill  of  sale  for  the  balance.  They 
come  up  and  pay,  and  the  majority  of  them  will  take  an  American's 
word  for  most  anything.  I  have  got  peojile  on  my  books  that  pay 
their  accounts  every  six  months,  or  once  a  year,  and  they  never  ask 
for  a  I)ill  for  anything.  They  will  come  in  when  they  sell  their  wool 
or  anything  and  say,  "What  is  my  bill?"  and  I  will  tell  them,  and 
they  "will  say,  "Here  is  a  check,"  or  "Here  is  the  gold  for  it." 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

STATEMENT    OF   THOMAS    HUGHES,  OF    ALBUQUERQUE,  N.  MEX. 

Thomas  Hughes,  one  of  the  persons  selected  by  Delegate  Rodey  to 
make  a  statement  before  the  committee  on  behalf  of  the  Territory  of 
New  Mexico,  appeared  before  the  committee  and  made  the  following 
statement: 

I  will  only  take  up  your  time  for  a  few^  minutes.  I  am  not  a  public 
speaker.  1  am  a  newspaper  man.  I  came  down  here  in  1881  at  the 
request  of  Governor  Wallace  and  Governor  Fremont,  of  Arizona,  for 
the  purpose  of  making  a  State.  I  had  published  a  newspaper  in  Kansas 
for  a  number  of  years,  and  was  prominent  in  politics  in  that  State.  I 
was  Presidential  elector  in  1876  in  the  lirst  district  of  that  State.  I 
came  here  in  1881,  and  have  published  a  newspaper  ever  since.  1  am 
well  acquainted  with  every  county  in  the  Territory.  1  have  been  in 
every  Republican  convention  in  this  Territor}^  since  1881.  We  have 
some  good  men  and  some  bad  men;  some  intelligent  and  some  igno- 
rant. We  have  built  up  here  in  this  city — we  have  built  up  a  dozen 
towns  in  the  Territories  that  compare  with  the  towns  of  any  other 
State  in  the  Union.  1  think  that  this  city  will  compare  with  any  town 
of  its  size  in  the  United  States. 


64  NKVV    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

TEKKITORIAL   EXHIBITIONS. 

In  1S81  1  ostablishod  the  Territorial  fair  here.  1  promoted  it  and 
have  been  with  it  ever  since.  I  liave  held  successful  exhibitions  every 
year  and  have  cultivated  a  friendly  feeling-  and  a  State  pride  in  the 
jx'oph^  until  we  have  exhibitions  now  that  will  compare  with  any  in 
the  West.  In  fact,  we  have  larger  exhibitions  here  than  they  have 
in  Denver.  In  the  matter  of  railroads,  of  course,  not  having  state- 
hood, w(^  can  not  get  capital  here,  and  until  we  had  this  movement  for 
statehood  we  could  not  get  any  railroads.  Senator  Andrews  and 
others,  of  Pennsylvania,  feeling  that  the  prospects  for  statehood  were 
good,  kept  in  on  the  railroads.  We  have  English  papers  and  Spanish 
papers  in  every  county  in  the  Territory,  both  Democratic  and  Repub- 
lican. In  this  county  we  have  pu])lic  schools  in  every  voting  precinct. 
English  is  taught  just  the  same  as  in  any  of  the  States.  Spanish  is 
taught  as  a  side  issue,  as  German  would  be  in  any  State  in  the  Union. 
AVe  had  German  in  the  i)ul)lic  schools  of  Kansas  as  a  study  there. 
Al)out  the  native  people  here,  I  wish  to  say  that  1  iiave  never  met  in 
my  life  a  more  conservative  people.  There  is  no  corruption  among 
the  people  of  this  Territory,  or  native  people,  unless  a  corrupt  poli- 
tician gets  into  them  and  corrupts  them. 

TERRITORIAL   POLITICS. 

1  was  in  the  Pomeroy  campaign  in  Kansas,  and  1  know  what  political 
corruption  is.  I  have  been  a  member  of  the  legislature  since  1887.  I 
never  knew  a  member  to  receive  money  for  anything.  If  a  native  of 
this  Territory  likes  you,  and  if  they  have  confidence  in  you,  you  can 
get  almost  everything  with  them,  and  1  will  say  this  about  them  in 
politics,  that  in  my  twenty-two  years  experience  I  have  never  had  one 
of  them  to  lie  to  me  in  politics.  If  the  leaders  say  in  a  precinct  here 
that  it  is  going  to  come  out  so  and  so,  it  is  going  to  come  out  that  vfay. 
I  have  been  the  chairman  of  this  committee  here  for  years,  and  I  never 
paid  a  Mexican  a  cent  for  his  vote  in  this  Territory.  They  are  a  quiet, 
peaceable  people.  You  must  remember  that  up  to  1865  the  peons  of 
this  Territory,  which  was  possibly  two-thirds  of  the  population,  ^vere 
practically  slaves.  Lincoln's  emancipation  proclamation  emancipated 
them.  We  have  two  or  three  hundred  of  them  here  working  in  the 
railroad  shops.  They  are  faithful  workers.  Forty  or  tifty  of  them 
are  working  in  the  woolen  mills.  They  are  not  energetic.  They  do 
not  (-are  about  getting  rich  like  Americans.  They  are  perfectly  will- 
ing to  let  things  go  easy.  They  never  suggest  anything  in  the"  legis- 
lative assembly:  they  are  perfectly  willing  to  let  anything  go  through. 
If  you  g(>t  a  bill  through  and  the  next  session  you  want  to  amend  it, 
they  say  nothing,  but  go  ahead  and  vote  for  the'  amendment. 

THE    FIIJST   PUBLIC  SCHOOL   BILL. 

In  1887  I  had  the  honor  of  introducing  into  the  legislature  the  lirst 
public-school  ))ill.  It  was  beaten,  but  the  next  session  it  was  passed. 
We  have  in  this  town  as  good  a  school  svstem  as  any  American  town 
in  the  country.  The  school  system  is  tirst  class.  The  only  trouble  is 
we  are  growing  so  rapidly  that  we  have  not  enough  buildings. 

Q.  You  made  the  teaching  of  English  compulsory,  did  you  not?— 
A.   Yes,  sir:  and  the  attendance.     This  last  campaign  we  went  through 


NEW    STATP^HOOD    lULL.  6 

the  couiitiy  and  wo  seldom  had  to  use  an  interpreter.  This  younger 
generation  understands  English  as  well  as  I  do.  We  ought  to  have 
statehood.  We  feel  to  make  a  State  is  a  laudable  ambition  and  pride. 
I  was  living  in  Kansas  when  it  was  made  a  State,  and  t-ame  down  here 
with  the  sole  puri)()se  of  building  a  State.  The  building  of  a  State  is 
one  of  the  greatest  works  that  any  man  can  do,  and  we  fail  to  see  why 
any  Senator  of  the  United  States  should  op})ose  us  in  the  least.  We 
ask  you  to  help  us,  and  we  will  help  ourselves.  We  are  helping  our- 
selves. We  have  never  asked  a  cent  from  anyone  in  all  the  misfor- 
tunes of  the  West.  When  the  wars  came  up.  we  have  done  our  duty. 
I  sent  my  oldest  boy  to  Cuba  as  a  sergeant  in  Koosevelt's  regiment, 
and  at  the  time  I  thought  alxnit  it,  and  thought  J  am  only  half  an 
American  citizen.  Why  should  1  send  my  boy  ^  Hut  that  spirit  of 
pride  and  loyalty  to  country  made  us  do  that.  We  are  trying  to  build 
these  people  up.  We  Irivc  schools,  universities,  and  public  libniries. 
We  have  everything  they  have  in  any  city  of  the  Union.  As  far  as 
straight,  downright  interest  is  concerned,  1  think  we  Avill  compare 
with  the  rest  of  creation. 

FOUR   PER   CENT   BONUS. 

Our  bonds  are  at  4  per  cent — the  Ijor.ds  of  the  city  and  county — all 
4  per  cent  bonds.  We  had  to  issue  bonds  in  building  this  town  to 
build  sewers,  and  court-houses,  and  jails,  and  everything  of  that  kind. 
Our  rate  of  taxation  is  very  low  in  comparison  to  the  assessment. 
Ever3^body  ligures  their  assessment  as  low  as  possible.  We  have  a 
defective  system,  which  we  have  not  improved.  I  drew  up  a  bill  four 
years  ago  and  passed  it  and  afterwards  found  it  was  very  defective. 

Now.  gentlemen,  1  have  nothing  to  say  further  than  this:  1  have 
lived  here  and  dealt  with  these  people.  1  have  run  a  newspaper — 
Republican — but  I  have  not  a  Democratic  enemy  in  this  town.  I  can 
carry  this  county  on  any  proposition  by  3,6(»(»  majority,  and  1  appeal 
to  you  to  give  us  statehood,  and  we  will  give  you  a  State  that  will  be 
one  of  the  very  best  in  the  Union.  We  have  no  heavy  debt — Terri- 
torial, county, Or  city.  We  are  self-supporting  in  everyway.  We 
think  the  valley  here'  is  as  fertile  as  the  Nile,  and  it  will  support  as 
large  a  population.  All  we  need  is  capital,  and  that  will  bring  us 
schoolhouses  and  churches  and, every  other  element  of  civilization. 

1  do  not  know  wliat  further  I  can  say.  1  am  willing  to  answer  any 
(luestion  that  you  may  care  to  put  to  me.  We  want  to  be  a  self- 
governing  people.  We  want  the  privilege  of  representation  in  Wash- 
ington to  help  develop  our  resources,  and  we  have  liere  that  American 
pride  that  we  want  to  do  business  for  ourselves  just  like  all  the  people 
from  the  thirteen  colonies  up.  I  presume  that  statehood  will  cost  more 
for  the  tirst  four  or  five  years,  looking  at  it  from  a  selfish  standpoint, 
])ecause  my  taxes  will  be  increased.  But  this  question  is  above  taxa- 
tion; the  question  of  statehood  is  wdth  us.  It  is  above  all  financial 
considerations.  Some  ]^eople  have  feared  that  we  would  be  a  Mexican 
State.  They  thought  Colorado  w^ould  l)e  a  Mexican  State  when  it  was 
admitted,  aiid  now  tliere  are  but  a  few  only  in  the  southern  part  of  the 
State,  and  all  they  do  is  to  elect  my  friend  Borillo  to  the  State  senate. 
They  are  a  good,  quiet  people,  and  that  is  about  all  they  do. 

H  s  B 5 


66  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

STATEMENT   OF    WILLIAM   B.    CHILDERS,    OF   ALBUQUERQUE,   N.   MEX. 

Hon.  William  K.  Childers,  one  of  the  persons  selected  by  Delegate 
Rode}'  to  appear  before  the  committee  and  make  a  statement  on  behalf 
of  the  Territoiy  relative  to  the  admission  of  the  Teri'itory  to  statehood, 
appeared  before  the  committee  and  made  the  following  statement: 

The  Chairman.  You  may  proceed  before  the  committee  in  j^our 
own  way. 

Mr.  Childers.  Mr.  Rodey  did  me  the  honor  of  selecting  me  as  one 
of  the  people  to  appear  before  the  committee.  We  have  our  ideas 
about  the  question  of  statehood  as  any  Senator  may  have  upon  any 
question.  1  have  lived  in  New  Mexico  for  twenty-two  years.  I  am 
now  48  years  of  age,  and  I  have  cast  one  vote  for  an  elector  for  Presi- 
dent in  my  life  and  helped  to  count  the  ballots  in  one  precinct.  I  did 
not  think  at  that  time  and  I  do  not  think  noW  that  that  vote  was  a  mis- 
take. That  vote  was  cast  in  the  city  of  St.  Louis  for  ]\lr.  Tilden.  I 
am  a  native  of  Tennessee.  I  came  to  New  Mexico  with  all  my  predi- 
lections in  favor  of  the  Democratic  party.  My  preceptor  and  teacher 
was  John  Randolph  Tucker,  of  Virginia,  and  of  course  you  can  under- 
stand that  early  prejudices  might  have  made  a  Democrat  out  of  me  and 
probably  did.  I  came  to  New  Mexico  and  was  quite  active  in  politics 
and  have  been  ever  since.  That  I  have  been  active  I  do  not  think  it  is 
necessary  to  apologize  for.  I  was  at  one  time  exceedingly  active  in 
behalf  of  the  Democratic  party.  I  was  chairman  of  the  Democratic 
Territorial  committee  and  in  1890  made  a  tight  against  statehood  in 
New  Mexico.  In  1889  the  tight  was  made,  as  1  remember  now,  as  Mr. 
Harrison's  Administration  was  just  coming  into  power. 

legisi>ature  passed  bill  for  statehood. 

Immediately  before  Mr.  Harrison  w'as  inaugurated  the  legislature 
had  met.  It  was  overwhelmingly  Repu])lican.  with  a  Democratic  gov- 
ernor. There  were  a  great  man}-  contests  and  finally  the  Republicans 
got  a  majority  of  two-thirds  and  they  passed  a  bill  for  statehood  before 
the  constitutional  convention. 

There  was  a  bitter  contest  between  them  and  the  Democrats  offered 
to  concede  to  the  Republicans  one  majority,  but  they  would  not  agree 
on  that  apportionment  for  delegates  .to  the  constitutional  convention. 
The  result  was  that  the  Democrats  did  not  participate  in  the  convention. 

STATEHOOD    CONSTITUTION    REJECTED    BY    8.O00. 

The  constitution  was  adopted  by  the  convention,  which  was  rejected 
at  the  polls  by  8,000  majority.  Not  until  189(i  were  my  relations  with 
the  Democratic  party  particularly  changed.  In  189f;  I  was  a  delegate 
to  the  Indianapolis  convention  and  voted  at  that  nomination  for  Palmer 
and  Buckner.  Of  course  we  did  not  know  "where  we  were  at."  At 
that  time  1  Avas  encumbered  with  the  office  of  United  States  district 
attorney.  I  was  appointed  in  June,  189(),  by  Mr.  Cleveland  to  the 
office  which  ought  to  have  been  given  me  in  1893.  I  know  that  more 
or  less  this  matter  is  a  political  question  and  I  make  this  statement  for 
that  reason. 

Whatever  compliments  may  have  been  paid  me  by  ]Mr.  Rodey — and 
in  connection  with  that  I  refer  you  to  the  fact  that  a  commission  as 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  67 

United  Sttites  attorney  was  issued  me  by  Mr.  Cleveland  and  another 
one  by  Mr.  McKinley.  Since  1808  I  have  been  United  States  district 
attorney  for  New  Mexico.  Prior  to  that  time  I  had  been  actively 
eno-ag-ecl  in  the  practice  of  law.  1  think  that  1  am  pretty  well  known 
and  have  had  experience^  in  most  of  the  counties  of  the  Territory 
except  in  some  of  the  remote  counties.  Though  1  have  never  had  any 
business  in  them,  I  think  I  know  something-  about  the  general  condi- 
tions of  the  Tei-ritorv. 

FORMERLY    OPPOSED   STATEHOOD. 

Now,  having  made  that  statement,  I  may  say  that  for  a  long  time 
I  thought  that  it  was  a  hazardous  thing  for  us  to  have  statehood,  on 
account  of  the  peculiar  conditions  of  our  population;  but  I  have  come 
to  this  conclusion  after,  as  I  think,  years  of  consideration,  and  after 
having  been  on  the  other  side  of  the  question — in  ISilO  the  platform 
was  not  in  favor  of  statehood,  and  I  was  on  that  platform.  Of  course 
the  Congressional  history  of  it  is  not  at  all  necessary  for  me  to  refer 
to.  So  that  while  I  stood  in  that  convention,  it  has  very  often  been 
presented  to  me  that  that  was  the  best  thing  for  us  to  do.  Now  it 
strikes  me  in  two  ways.  Of  course  you  can  understand  that  a  man  who 
has  been  as  actively  engaged  in  the  practice  of  hiw.  as  I  have,  under- 
stands all  about  the  ditferent  things  regarding  the  jury  system,  and 
having  as  wide  a  personal  acquaintance  as  I  have  had  in  that  way  and 
in  a  professional  and  a  personal  and  social  way,  that  1  have  souie 
knowledge  of  the  conditions  in  New  Mexico.  It  strikes  me  that  the 
statehood  question  presents  itself  in  two  ways.  One  proposition  is. 
What  would  be  the  effect  upon  ourselves  here  in  New  Mexico?  The 
second  proposition  is.  What  eflect  wall  it  have  upon  the  relations  of 
New  Mexico  with  the  other  States  of  the  Union  ? 

TAXES    HIGH. 

It  is  said  our  taxes  are  high.  They  are;  there  is  no  question  about 
that.  I  think  a  complete  answer  to  that  is  that  the  new  countries,  or 
countries  undergoing  anything  like  rapid  development,  where  you  have 
ambitious  comnuniities,  they  are  always  apt  to  discount  the  future  and 
the  result  is  higher  taxation.  They  may  say  our  system  is  not  what 
it  should  be.  I  am  perfecth'  willing  to  say  that  the  burdens  of  sus- 
taining State  government,  if  we  ever  have  one,  must  rest  upon  the 
new  blood  that  is  coming  to  this  Territory  and  invested  interests  in 
the  Territory  and  upon  the  people  who  are  in  the  habit  of  paying- 
taxes.  The  history  of  the  Mexican  people  is  that  they  are  not  in  the 
habit  of  paying  direct  taxes. 

MEXICAN    TAX    SYSTEM. 

Not  until  187(3  was  there  any  taxes  directly  upon  the  real  estate  in 
New  Mexico,  and  in  old  Mexico  to-day  they  do  not  do  it.  It  requires 
somewhat  of  an  education  of  these  people  and  somewhat  of  an  enforce- 
ment to  get  them  to  understand  why  they  should  pay.  I  would  not 
claim  that  our  tax  laws  are  ideal  by  any  means.  They  are  not  even 
ideal  anywhere,  in  fact.  It  is  one  of  the  most  difficult  problems  that 
anybod}^  has  to  deal  with.     But  I  think  we  are  making  a  great  deal  of 


68  NEW    STATEH(M1D    BILL, 

headway  in  that  respect.  I  can  not  say  that  we  are  (overtaxed  in  the 
city  of  All)ii([uer((ue.  The  rate  of  taxation  seems  iii<>li,  unquestion- 
iihW.  When  you  ask  about  4  per  cent  and  a  fraction  or  5  per  cent 
taxation  upon  real  estate,  it  unquestionably  seems  hig-h;  but  when  you 
come  to  look  at  the  actual  transactions  between  the  owners  of  prop- 
erty as  to  what  it  should  be  set  out,  you  have  to  take  oli'  about  two- 
thirds  of  the  rate  in  order  to  put  it  down  where  it  should  be. 

MEXICAN    POPULATION    AND   JURIES. 

Now,  how  will  we  govern  ourselves^  As  we  exist  to-day  and  as  we 
have  existed  for  forty  or  fifty  yeai's,  if  anybody  has  a  fear  of  the  domi- 
nation of  the  Mexican  people  in  the  Mexican  counties  where  the  Mexi- 
can population  dominates,  I  uuist  say  that  they  make  a  very  fair 
concession — more,  in  fact,  than  the  American  population  is  entitled 
to  in  the  county  offices  and  members  of  the  legislature.  And  still  they 
have  had  an  opportunity  to  pass  repressive  laws  if  they  wanted  to,  but 
which  they  have  never  done.  They  assess  taxes  when  they  happen  to 
1)6  in  the  majority,  and  collect  them  and  spend  the  money.  What 
more  they  can  do  I  do  not  know.  And  then  Ave  come  to  our  courts. 
It  is  impossil^le  not  to  hold  court  with  Mexican  juries.  It  is  absolutely 
impossible  in  some  counties  of  this  Territory  not  to  hold  court  with 
Mexican  jurors — jurors  who  can  not  speak  the  English  language.  It 
has  been  so.  It  is  not  worth  while  for  you  and  me  or  anybod}'  else  to 
ask  the  question  as  to  who  is  to  blame  for  that — as  to  why  that  con- 
dition of  affairs  should  have  continued  ever  since  the  cession  of  this 
country  to  the  United  States  by  Mexico. 

THE    COURTS. 

Nevertheless  that  is  a  fact,  that  where  there  is  a  voting  population  of 
l,oUO  or  2,000  people  in  the  county  they  are  almost  cxclusivelv  Mexi- 
can. There  were  originally  three  judges  and  three  courts.  Subse- 
quently Congress  enacted  a  law  authorizing  the  Territorial  legislature 
to  establish  courts  in  counties — district  courts  for  the  counties.  The 
United  States  courts,  as  we  call  them  here — they  are  not  United  States 
courts,  strictly  speaking,  but  for  convenience  out  here  we  call  them 
that.  Originally  there  were  three  courts  held  in  the  three  places,  and 
everything  was  tried  there.  Sul)sequently,  after  this  law  was  passed, 
the  legislature  authorized  the  holding  of  courts  in  each  of  the  counties. 
Whenever  a  county  was  organized,  the  legislature  authorized  the  hold- 
ing of  courts  to  try  cases  involving  the  laws  of  the  Territory  and  the 
criminal  laws  of  the  Territory,  and  the  subject-matter  of  which  was 
under  the  laws  of  the  Territory.  I  think  it  has  been  the  same  thing 
practically  as  the  development  of  the  courts  in  the  last  twenty  years. 
Now  the  jurors  of  the  United  States  court  are  drawn  from  the  district. 
We  now  have  five  judges  and  live  districts. 

THE   .lURORS. 

The  jurors  are  not  drawn  from  any  particular  county.  In  the  dis- 
trict courts  in  the  counties  the  jurors  are  drawn  from  the  counties. 
If  we  were  made  a  State  we  might  have  Federal  courts  held  in  prob- 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  69 

ably  not  more  than  two  places  and  possibly  not  more  than  one  in  the 
State.  Now,  that  rehit(\s  moi-e  to  the  cpiestion  of  the  ett'eet  upon  the 
safety  of  property  as  investments  than  anything  else.  The  eti'eet  of 
that  would  be  in  a  rapidly  developing  country,  more  than  in  any  of  the 
P^astern  countries,  that  "litigation  involving  civil  rights  would  natu- 
rally go  to  the  Federal  courts  and  the  jury  w^ould  be  drawn  there, 
the 'suits  having  been  brought  there  in  the  first  place,  or  transferred 
there  under  the  laws  authorizing  the  removal  of  cases  from  the  State 
courts  to  the  Federal  courts.  So  that  the  jurors  in  the  Federal  courts 
could  be  drawn  from  the  whole  State  or  from  the  whole  district.  They 
would  be  drawn  under  the  United  States  statutes  just  as  they  are 
drawn  in  any  State  in  the  country.  That  statute  would  provide  that 
the  judge  or  the  clerk  of  the  court  and  one  other  person  of  an  oppo- 
site political  affiliation  to  his  own  should  select  a  certain  number  of 
names  and  put  them  in  the  box  without  regard  to  their  political  affili- 
ations, and  they  would  serve  as  jurors,  and  in  that  way  I  think  we 
will  have  as  good  jurors  as  any  State  in  the  Union.  My  experience 
justifies  me  in  saying  that.  The  judge  who  selects  his  clerk  would  be 
appointed  by  the  President  of  the  United  States,  and  as  the  clerk 
would  be  selected  by  him,  there  would  be  eliminated  from  that  an}^ 
consideration  of  a  political  nature. 

It  seems  to  me,  and  I  think  any  of  you  gentlemen  who  are,  as  all  of 
you  probably  are,  engaged  in  the  practice  of  laww^ould  readily  under- 
stand, that  any  case  involved  in  the  matter  of  investment  in  the  coun- 
try would  go  to  the  Federal  courts  and  would  be  absolutely  free  from 
prejudice.  I  do  not  want  to  draw  any  comparisons  between  our  Terri- 
tory and  Texas,  but  I  know-  it  to  be  a  fact  that  persons  desiring  to 
bring  a  damage  suit — for  instance,  a  personal  injury  suit — against  a 
railroad  will  move  from  this  Territory  to  Texas  and  bring  his  suit  in 
El  Paso,  for  instance. 

MEXICAN    .JURIES    FAIR. 

Now,  the  fairest  juiy  1  have  ever  known  in  these  cases  is  a  Mexican. 
I  refer  to  that  because  some  persons  say  a  fair  verdict  will  not  be 
returned  because  a  corporation  is  interested.  Now,  my  own  experi- 
ence has  been  that  they — and  of  course  they  are  people  that  are  sus- 
ceptible to  influence,  much  more  so  than  the  sturdy  Anglo-Saxon  would 
be.  A  man's  citizenship  does  not  depend  upon  his  ability  to  write 
and  1  do  not  believe  a  better  class  of  jurors  could  l)e  found  than  the 
Mexican  jury. 

My  experience  in  the  pnu-tice  of  law  had  been  somewhat  limited 
l)efore  I  came  to  New  Mexico.  1  spent  a  few  years  in  the  city  of  St. 
Louis,  and  have  tried  cases  outside  of  New  Mexico  very  frequentl3% 
and  1  find  that  they  are  fair  jurors,  and  even  when  they  do  not  under- 
stand a  word  of  English;  but  the  consideration  they  would  bring  to 
bear  upon  a  verdict  would  surprise  a  person  who  is  not  acquainted 
with  them  and  has  not  had  experience  with  them.  Of  course  in  this 
western  country  a  man  who  has  anything  to  do  with  the  courts  runs 
up  against  a  hard  proposition,  Init  the  hardest  propositions  I  have  had 
have  been  in  the  American  counties.  I  have  run  up  against  them  once 
or  twice  since  I  have  been  United  States  district  attorney. 

And  so,  I  think,  I  have  spoken  very  briefly,  and  if  I  have  been  able 


70  NEW  statp:hood  bill. 

to  conve}'  to  vou  in  iii.v  way  what  the  i-onditions  of  the  courts  wovild 
be  Avith  this  addition  if  we  could  get  the  United  States  courts  in  the 
Territory— if  we  had  one  now,  if  it  were  po.s.sible  under  our  Territorial 
system— it  would  be  an  immense  advantage  to  us. 

TENDENCY    IX    JUDICIAL   APPOINTMENTS. 

■  Now.  if  VOU  will  pardon  me  a  minute.  You  take  our  judicial  system, 
from  a  standpoint  of  the  judges  that  we  have,  if  you  will  permit  me 
to  say  it.  after  twenty  years'  experience,  the  best  judges  we  have  had 
in  New  Mexico,  the  niost  satisfactory  judges,  the  most  satisfactory 
not  only  to  the  people  of  New  Mexico  but  to  the  Department  of 
Justice  in  Washington,  have  been  people  appointed  from  the  people 
of  New  Mexico,  There  had  not  been  a  judge  appointed  in  New 
Mexico  from  the  people  of  New  Mexico  until  Cleveland's  tirst  adndnis- 
tration.  The  tendency  now  is  to  appoint  all  officers  for  the  Tei-ritory 
from  the  Territory. 

I  think  that  since  1884  both  Democratic  and  Republican  platforms 
have  declared  in  favor  of  appointing  officers  from  the  Territory.  We 
have  been  able  to  etiect  that,  and  I  think  it  has  been  recognized  as  a 
rule  of  justice.  I  think  it  is  lit  and  proper  to  appoint  a  man  from  the 
comnumity  in  which  he  was  to  serve  to  any  kind  of  a  position,  and  I 
think  it  has  been  a  benefit  all  the  time.  1  do  not  mean  by  what  I  have 
said  about  that  to  reflect  upon  some  of  the  \ery  excellent  men  who 
have  been  appointed  from  the  outside  and  Avho  have  come  here. 
While  they  had  not  been  residents  of  the  Territory  before  they  were 
appointed^  some  of  them  stayed  and  some  of  them  did  not.  They  were 
free  from  any  prejudice  in  the  wa}^  thev  discharged  the  duties  of  their 
offices,  but  the  aV)solute  viciousness  of  the  system  is  something  I  can 
not  get  over. 

SUPREME    COURT. 

When  1  tirst  came  here  w^e  had  three  judges  who  held  district  courts. 
We  have  five  now.  They  do  the  business  of  the  district  courts.  They 
try  all  the  cases  that  are  tried  in  the  district  courts.  From  them  an 
appeal  lies  to  the  supreme  court  of  the  Territory,  and  they  are  mem- 
bers of  that  court.  I  do  not  care  how  good  judges  may  be  that  may 
be  selected,  I  do  not  think  it  is  right  to  make  a  judge  the  judge  of  his 
own  case  on  appeal. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Does  the  judge  who  tries  the  case  as  a  district  court  sit  in  the  hear- 
ing in  the  supreme  court  on  appeal? — A.  No,  sir;  he  is  not  allowed  to 
do  it  under  the  law  of  the  Territory,  but  I  can  show  you  in  the  printed 
records  of  the  Territorial  courts  where  it  has  been  done.  It  is  not 
done  now.  Now%  for  instance.  I  will  refer  you  to  the  State  of  New 
York.  1  remember  of  having  a  conversation,  in  discussing  this  veiy 
question,  with  a  United  States  Senator  from  New  York  in  discussing 
a  bill  which  we  think  would  give  us  appeal  from  the  courts  of  the  Ter- 
ritory to  the  United  States  court  of  ai)peals.  In  several  cases  involv- 
ing ^^5,000  or  over  appeal  lies  directly  to  the  United  States  Supreme 
Court.  The  system  is  what  I  am  talking  aliout.  I  do  not  think  there 
is  any  scandal  connected  with  the  present  judges  on  the  bench,  but  I 
do  say  that  it  is  inevitable  that  this  proposition  of  '-you  tickle  me  and 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL,  7l 

I'll  tickle  you"  can  not  be  helped.  As  far  as  the  nisi  prius  courts  are 
concerned,  I  think  that  justice  is  administered  fairh^  and  honestly  by 
the  present  judiciary  of  New  Mexico. 

ADMINISTRATION    OF   JUSTICE    HONEST. 

1  think  it  would  compare  fairly  with  the  administration  of  justice 
and  the  conduct  of  the  courts  in  most  of  the  States  in  the  country 
under  State  government,  but  I  think  no  system  would  be  perfect 
unless  3^ou  had  a  district  appellate  tribunal.  I  do  not  want  to  be 
understood  as  making-  any  kind  of  an  insinuation  against  the  personal^ 
integrity  or  abilit}^  of  the  present  gentlemen  on  the  bench. 

I  think  we  are  perfectly  capat)le  of  sustaining  government,  so  far  as 
an}'^  tax  upon  our  resources  are  concerned.  I  have  never  seen  the  time 
since  I  have  been  here  where  it  seemed  to  me  that  the  Territory  was 
more  upon  the  upgrade  and  that  it  had  more  of  a  prospect  of  innnediate 
prosperity  before  it.  I  do  not  claim  the  same  amount  of  population 
that  some  of  my  friends  in  the  Territory  do.  I  like  to  be  more  accu- 
rate in  the  statement  of  facts.  I  think  we  have  enough  to  entitle  us 
to  statehood.  I  do  not  think  it  is  necessary  to  claim  more  than  we 
have. 

OPINION   ON    CENSUS. 

I  will  take  the  census  for  it  and  stand  upon  the  census.  I  think 
possi])ly  that  we  may  have  a  little  more  than  the  census  gives  us.  I 
have  a  little  doubt,  too,  that  we  have  a  little  more.  I  know  that  it  is 
somewhat  difficult  to  get  the  population  in  a  sparsely-settled  country 
like  this.  We  have  a  railroad  system  just  beginning.  The  Rock 
Island  was  here  last  year.  We  have  the  Santa  Fe  proposing  to  build 
through  now  from  Roswell  east.  I  have  not  been  to  Roswell  for  a 
good  many  years,  but  I  understand  from  reliable  people  that  they 
have  a  population  of  three  or  four  or  live  thousand  people.  1  have 
that  from  the  people  of  Pecos  Valley.  That  was  in  the  last  few  months. 
1  understand  that  within  the  last  year  that  country  has  undergone  a 
veiy  considerable  development,  and  there  is  a  great  deal  of  population 
tioocling  into  a  section  of  country  like  that,  although  the  development 
may  be  prospective,  if  it  is  immediate  prospective,  and  that  I  think 
is  really  the  cause  of  the  influx  of  population  in  that  country. 

IRRIGATION    AT    ROSWELL. 

The  only  time  1  was  ever  there  in  my  life  was  eight  or  ten  3'ears 
ago.  They  have  a  line  irrigation  system.  As  tine  as  you  can  tind  in 
the  country — in  Phoenix  or  anywhere  in  California.  It  was  very 
slow  for  them  to  put  in  that  immense  investment  of  capital  and  the 
actual  opening  up  of  the  country  was  ver}'  slow.  The  irrigation  com- 
pany went  into  the  hands  of  a  receiver  and  the  railroad  built  in  connec- 
tion with  it  went  into  the  hands  of  a  receiver.  I  think  that  is  the 
actual  condition  of  things  there  at  this  time.  There  are  other  rail- 
roads l)eing  built  in  the  Territory,  and  we  have  immediate  prospect  of 
one  being  built  from  Bisbee  up.  The  western  part  of  the  Territorv 
has  great  resources,  but  it  is  absolutely  undeveloped.  I  know  of 
mines  over  there  where  the  people  have  leased  them  and  the  operators 


72  NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL. 

havo  htiulcfl  their  oiv  T<»  or  80  milos  ))y  wtigoii.  Anybody  who  was 
contestino-  stutohood  miu'lit  say  we  had  better  wait  until  these  railroads 
are  t)uilt  and  th'^  population  hiis  increased,  but  I  think  statehood  will 
accelerate  thes(>  tliinos.  My  own  experience  is  that  it  will  accelerate 
the  brino-ing-  of  capital  into  New  Mexico. 

(3nly  the  other  day  1  was  talking  to  a  man  who  said  he  had  erected 
in  Raton  a  block  of*  buildings  at  a  cost  of  $25,000  or  $80,000,  and  he 
said  he  wanted  to  ])orrow  $10,000  on  it,  and  he  had  it  all  paid  for  and 
he  had  the  arranoenients  made  to  get  the  money  of  a  Jewish  friend  in 
the  East  (I  think  he  l)elonged  to  that  rac(^  himself),  and  they  wrote  to 
him  and  said  they  had  forgotten  it  was  a  Territory,  and  they  did  not 
want  to  invest  any  money  in  a  Territory.  That  man  was  a  man  back 
East  from  whom  this  man  bought  goods. 

INVESTMENT    IN    TERRITORIES. 

I  think  that  has  a  great  etiect  upon  the  growth  and  prosperity  of 
the  Territory.  I  know  that  from  that  standpoint  some  people  would 
not  consider"  that  for  a  moment.  I  know  I  have  been  East  man}'  times 
and  I  would  give  people  my  card  and  they  would  say,  ''  Oh,  yes;  you 
live  in  old  Mexico.  ^V\vdi  kind  of  a  government  do  you  have  down 
there  in  Mexico T'  Now,  I  have  had  that  thing  happen  to  me  many 
hundreds  of  times.  I  have  gone  into  the  stores  in  the  cities  of  Chicago 
and  New  York — great  department  stores — and  ha\-e  ordered  goods  to 
be  sent  to  me  here  and  they  did  not  know  the  difference  })etween  old 
and  New  Mexico.  I  think  that  anybody  who  has  had  experience  in 
the  Territories  north  of  us  will  know  about  the  investment  of  money 
in  these  Territories  when  they  have  been  admitted  as  States.  I  do  not 
think  that  anv  Representative  in  either  of  the  Houses  of  CougTess,  if 
his  opinion  was  asked,  but  would  say  so.  In  1889,  when  these  States 
were  admitted  under  the  omnibus  bill,  some  of  them  were  undergoing 
a  state  of  depression.  1  went  up  there  in  the  Northwest  several  times 
in  connection  with  a  bank  receivership,  and  they  were  undergoing  a 
very  great  state  of  depression.  They  had  it  in  Denver,  too,  but  when 
the  country  began  to  improve  they  went  forward  and  we  did  not. 

MININ(t    and    RAIEROADS   in    TERRITORY. 

I  do  not  think  there  is  any  reason  why  a  man  with  a  shaft  10  feet 
on  one  side  of  a  line  and  a  thousand  feet  on  the  other  could  not  get 
money  to  sink  the  1,000-foot  shaft  10  feet  as  easily  as  to  sink  a  10-foot 
shaft ^on  the  other  side.  But  we  can  not  do  that  because  we  are  a 
Territory,  an«1  on  the  other  side  of  the  line  there  is  a  State.  If  the 
Rock  Island  is  going  to  build  a  road  to  El  Paso  to  gt>t  to  ^Mexico  or  to 
the  Pacific  coast.  I  do  not  think  we  would  have  anything  to  do  With 
that.  They  would  be  like  the  company  that  is  building  IIH  miles  of 
railroad  from  Santa  Fe  down  to  the  Rock  Island.  No  great  railroad 
company  is  behind  them.  Senator  Andrews  and  some  people  in  Pitts- 
))urg  who  have  faith  in  this  country  are  building  it.  They  have  not 
issued  a  l)ond  and  have  not  sold  one.  Of  course  I  do  not  want  to  talk 
about  anybody's  prixate  business  in  a  case  of  this  kind.  I  understand 
that  the  investment  has  ])een  largely  due  to  the  personal  eft'ort  of  Sen 
ator  Andrews.  The  gentlemen  who  are  interested  in  it  are  substantia' 
and  responsible. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL,  73 

The  road  from  Bisl)oo  to  El  Paso  was  not  Ituilt  by  any  trunk  line  of 
railroad.  I  •understand  that  the  oentlonien  who  are  behind  it  are  of 
anii)le  means.  They  are  Thelps,  Dodge  &  Co.,  of  New  Vork.  ^Ve 
accomplish  local  thino-s  that  have  been  started  that  way.  This  rail- 
road from  El  Paso,  the  El  Paso  and  Northeastern,  was  ))uilt  in  the 
same  way.  i  think  that  has  a  very  vital  l)earino-  on  the  question  of 
statehood.  It  would  not  to  you  or  me.  ))ut  there  is  a  sort  of  a  feeling 
that  when  the  popuhition  is  large  we  nmst  be  (-onsidered  to  have  been — 
occupied  the  possessions  which  we  have,  which  is  not  an  equivocal  one 
and  the  very  statement  that  we  are  untit  for  statehood  must  have 
some  etiect  upon  our  credit  abroad,  and  we  all  feel  the  eli'ect  of  that. 
We  believe  that  we  have  had  opportunities  for  observing  it  which 
people  outside  of  the  Territory  who  would  take  a  more  reasonable  view 
of  it  would  not  have  thought  of. 

RELATIONS   TO   THE    UNION. 

Coming  to  the  other  proposition — that  is,  our  relations  to  the  Union. 
What  kind  of  people  are  we  going  to  send  for  Representatives;  and 
ai-e  we  capable,  and  will  the  people  of  New  ^Mexico  exercise  the  right 
of  self-government  and  send  to  the  Senate  of  the  United  States  the 
right  kind  of  peopled  Are  we  a  conservative  people ?  1  understand 
we  are.  I  understand  that  the  people  of  New  Mexico  are  as  conserva- 
tive as  any  people  of  any  group  or  Territory  in  the  United  States  have 
shown  themselves  to  be.  They  have  their  own  interests  at  heart,  and 
that  is  one  of  the  things  that  lias  made  them  largely  Republican — thej' 
believe  in  protection.  The  condition  is  an  argument  to  them.  You 
get  out  and  talk  to  them  and  see  w  hat  wool  was  worth  and  what  it  is 
worth  now.  Now.  1  believe  that  these  are  considerations  that  swerve 
every  connnunity  on  the  face  of  the  earth — whether  you  find  them  in 
New' Mexico.  Pennsylvania,  or  South  Carolina;  that  these  considera- 
tions have  more  to  do  with  political  results  in  the  country  than  any- 
thing else  that  could  be  suggested;  and  I  say  that  on  the  question  of 
any  of  the  propositions  that  might  come  up  the  people  of  New  Mexico 
are  a  conservative  people  and  not  easily  led  otf  on  any  proposition. 

The  Spanish-speaking  people  are  naturally  conservative.  They  are 
born  that  way.  They  are  not  in  a  hurry  to  follow  after  any  new  light 
or  false  leads  that  niay  be  given  to  theuL  They  stand  generally  for 
law  and  order  and  good  government.  They  are  peaceable  people,  and 
always  have  been,  as  a  general  proposition,  the  people  who  stand  by 
law  and  order  when  any  question  of  that  kind  arises.  Part  of  what  I 
have  said  suggests  that  reference  to  our  relations  outside  of  New  Mex- 
ico is  the  matter  of  Federal  relations,  with  reference  in  particular  to 
the  courts.  The  other  part,  as  1  said,  would  be  our  representation  in 
Congress. 

REPRESENTATION    IN    CONGRESS. 

Now,  it  might  not  be.  but  I  think  we  could  select  conservative  men. 
I  am  satisfied  of  it  in  my  own  mind.  1  have  heard  two  or  three  or 
four  names  mentioned  in  connection  with  the  United  States  Senator- 
ship.  Mr.  Rodey  has  ])een  mentioned,  and  Senator  Andrews,  and  of 
course  Mr.  T.  B.'  Catlin  has  always  been  considered  a  standing  candi- 
date for  the  United  States  Senate  whenever  the  question  of  election 
arises.     I  think  it  would  be  premature  to  mention  anj^  bod}'  as  a  can- 


74  NEW    STATEHOOJ3    BILL. 

didate.  Of  course  Ave  have  heard  the  names  of  a  great  many  gentle- 
men canvassed  as  candidates  for  that  position.  Senator  Andrews  has 
lived  here  about  eight  years.  I  have  known  him  as  being  in  New 
Mexico  six  years.  The  first  time  I  ever  met  the  genth^man  was  in 
Hiils1)oro.  and  hv  was  engaged  in  mining,  and  that  was  six  years  ago. 
I  do  not  know  whether  he  had  his  voting  residence  here  or  not.  I 
have  not  l)een  intimately  acquainted  with  him  more  than  two  or  three 
years,  but  at  least  six  years  ago  he  was  engaged  in  mining  down  there, 
^low,  as  I  say,  I  think  our  representation  in  Congress  would  be  very 
respectable,  and  I  believe  it  would  be  conservative,  and  I  think  the 
result  of  the  election  of  United  States  Senators  from  New  Mexico 
would  not  be  a  disappointment  to  the  country.  I  think  it  would  com- 
pare favorably  with  an}^  of  the  new  States.     That  is  my  opinion  of  it. 


Albuquerque,  N.  Mex.,  November  15,  1902. 
The  committee  resumed  hearings  at  the  above-named  place  and  time. 

C.  M.  Foraker,  called  as  a  witness  before  the  committee,  testified 
as  follows: 

By  the  Chair3IAn: 

Q.  Please  state  your  name  and  age  to  the  committee. — A.  C.  M. 
Foraker;  41  years  old. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  in  the  I'erritory  "t — A.  It  will  be  twent}^ 
years  next  month. 

Q.  AVhat  otticial  position  do  you  now  hold  i — A.  United  States  mar- 
shal for  the  district  of  New  Mexico. 

Q.  And  during  your  residence  in  the  Territory  have  you  been  pretty 
well  over  the  Territory^ — A.  Yes,  sir;  ever}'  county  in  it  except  one. 

COUNTRY    POPULATION    PRINCIPALLY    MEXICAN. 

Q.  In  the  country  districts  what  is  the  nature  of  the  population  with 
respect  to  what  language  is  used  and  as  to  what  is  called  down  here 
Mexican  and  American^ — A.  Well,  the  country  population  is  princi- 
pally Mexican. 

Q.  What  language  do  they  speak? — A.  Principally  the  Spanish 
language. 

Q.  Have  you  been  out  in  the  course  of  the  political  campaigns  down 
here  and  observed  the  political  campaigns  in  the  country  districts? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  a  great  deal. 

Q.  What  is  the  fact  as  to  the  use  of  an  interpreter  at  the  meetings, 
or  how  are  those  conducted? — A.  They  always  have  a  Spanish  inter- 
preter. 

Q.  Have  3'ou  ])een  in  the  conventions? — A.  Y'^es,  sir. 

INTERPRETER   ALWAYS   USED   IN    CONVENTIONS. 

Q.  What  is  the  fact  as  to  the  use  of  an  interpreter  in  the  political 
conventions? — A.  They  always  use  an  interpreter. 
Q.  Is  that  true  here  in  Al]ni{|uerque(^ — A.  Y"es,  sir. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    «ILL.  75 

JURY    PAY   ROLLS. 

Q.  I  asked  you,  Mv.  Foniker,  to  submit  to  the  coinmittec  jury  pa}' 
rolls  and  jury  receipts  of  the  Territor}-.  We  have  them  here  before 
us  now. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  be  kind  cnoug-h  to  take  a  sample  jury  pay  roll,  with 
jury  receipts  for  each  district,  and  make  a  transcript  of  them  for  the 
committee? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  can  do  that. 

Q.  1  notice,  for  example,  in  examining-  those  jury  pay  rolls,  that  it 
shows  the  names  of  the  jurors,  and  the  names  themselves  show  the 
nativity  or  the  character  of  the  jurors,  and  also,  in  a  number  of 
instances,  that  they  have  receipted  by  the  making  of  their  marks. — 
A.  Yes,  sir.  There  are  five  districts  in  the  Territory  where  we  hold 
the  United  States  court,  and  we  hold  them  twice  a  year.  These  jur}^ 
fees  are  not  to  each  county;  they  are  by  districts.  In  this  district  there 
are  two  counties — this  county  and  Valencia. 

EMPLOYMENT   OF    THE    PEOPLE. 

Q.  In  what  capacity  are  the  people  out  in  the  countrj^  employed? — 
A.  Why,  principally,  raising  sheep — herders,  stock  growers — but  their 
stock  only  consists  of  goats  and  sheep,  principally. 

EXPENSES    OF   JURIES. 

Q.  Returning  to  the  question  of  the  jurors,  which  your  official 
duties  call  particularly  to  jouv  attention,  I  will  ask  you  as  to  the 
comparative  heaviness  of  the  jury  expenses.  What  is  the  fact  about 
that? — A.  Well,  it  is  with  reference  to  what  they  do;  the  expense  is 
very  heavy  for  the  work  they  perform,  the  duties  they  perform. 
They  come  in  and  hold  a  two  weeks' -session,  and  have  held  as  high  as 
fort3^-three  days,  and  returned  no  indictments. 

Q.  The  Department  at  Washington  has  its  attention  called,  or  directs 
its  attention  to,  this  whole  judicial  situation? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  the  fact  as  to  the  Department  having  had  this  under 
consideration,  and  that  fact  having  been  called  to  your  attention  in 
certain  correspondence  with  the  Department?  Was  not  a  letter  writ- 
ten by  Attorney-General  Griggs  to  Mr.  Hay,  of  the  Territorial  Com- 
mittee in  the  House,  a  copy  of  which  was  sent  to  your  office? — ^A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  This  is  the  letter,  is  it  not  [exhil)iting  letter]? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

"'AMERICAN'"'    COUNTRIES. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  I  would  like  to  inquire  about  the  nature  of  the  country  in  the 
eastern  part  of  the  Territory;  take  it,  for  instance,  in  the  neighborhood 
of  Roswell,  and  north  and  south  of  there. — A.  There  are  two  or  three 
counties  in  this  Territory  which  are  principally  Americans,  and  that 
is  around  Rosw^ell,  in  Chaves  County,  and  the  country  just  south,  in 
Eddy  County.  The}^  are  principally  Americans  over  there,  stock 
raisers. 

Q.  What  is  the  character  of  the  soil  and  industries? — A.  It  is  very 
good  in  the  valley;  along  the  Pecos  Valley  there  thej^  raise  a  great 
deal  of  alfalfa  and  of  fine  quality. 


7G  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q,  That  is  in  the  river  bottom'^ — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  When  you  <><^t  away  from  it,  how  does  it  compare  with  the 
country  throi*i.o-h  which  we  have  come'^ — A.   It  is  very  simihir. 

NOTHING   RAISED   AWAY    FROM    WATER. 

Q.  So  that,  o-enerally  speaking,  the  country  is  o-iven  up  to  o-razing' 
except  in  the  river  ])ottom? — A.  Oh,  yes,  entirely:  you  can  not  raise 
anything  awav  from  the  water.  Down  in  Grant  County  there  is 
principally  a  stock  country  down  there.  1  lived  there  sixteen  years, 
in  the  cattle  business,  and  the  country  is  settled  up  with  cattle  men; 
that  is,  very  sparsely  settled,  though. 

Q.  Where  is  that  county  located? — A.  In  the  southwestern  part  of 
the  Territory;  the  southwestern  corner. 

SIGNING    BY    MARK. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  I  note,  in  hastily  looking  over  the  lists,  that  some  of  the  jurors 
signed  receipts  for  their  fees  with  their  marks.  What  has  been  your 
experience  in  this? — A.  Some  sign  1)y  their  mark  and  some  do  not. 
I  recollect  in  one  case,  where  there  was  a  grand  jury  of  21,  that  19  of 
them  signed  by  mark,  and  in  another  case  a  petit  jury  of  21:  where  21 
of  them  signed  by  their  mark. 

The  letter  identified  by  the  witness,  and  which  was  read  in  evidence 
before  the  committee,  was  as  follows: 

Department  of  Jcstice, 
WasJdngton,  D.  C,  December  15,  1900. 
Hon.  George  W.  Ray, 

Chairman:  Coiinnitlee  on  the  Judiciary, 

House  of  Ilejrresentativen. 

Sir:  In  compliance  with  the  suggestion  made  in  your  letter  of  April  23,  1900,  I 
have  the  honor  to  inclose  herewith  a  draft  of  a  bill  prepared  by  my  direction,  having 
for  its  purpose  the  correction  of  the  evils  of  the  jury  system  in  New  Mexico.  I  also 
inclose  a  copy  of  a  letter  addressed  to  me  on  November  28,  1900,  by  the  United  States 
attorney  for  "New  Mexico,  explanatory  of  the  proposed  bill.  The  provision  that 
jurors  shall  imderstand  the  English  language  is  very  important.  Although  New 
Mexico  has  been  a  Territory  for  fully  lifty  years,  it  is  the  ext'eption  to  find  among 
the  jurors  selected  for  service  in  the  United  States  courts  any  who  can  understand  the 
English  language.  Consequently  the  (Tovernment  is  under  heavy  expense  annually 
in  the  employment  of  interpreters. 

The  population  of  the  Territory  is  largely  of  Mexican  descent,  and  they  are  anxious 
to  serve  as  jurors,  while  the  (so-called)  American  element  endeavor  to  escape  jury 
duty.  Reference  to  the  pay  rolls  of  jurors  in  the  first  and  second  districts,  composed 
largely  of  Mexicans  shows  that  many  of  them  arc  unable  to  write  their  own  names. 
The  United  States  attorney  is  convinced  that  under  the  present  law  (the  act  of  the 
Territorial  legislature  of  March  16,  1899)  there  is  much  delay  in  completing  the 
juries,  and  that  the  Mexican  grand  and  petit  juries  willfully  and  often  without  cause 
prolong  the  term  of  service  for  which  they  are  drawn. 

At  the  .January  and  September,  1899,  terms  at  Santa  Fe,  the  grand  jury  was  in 
session  twelve  days  each,  and  a  total  of  eight  indictments  were  returned,  at  a  cost  to 
the  government  of  $1,42:3.05.  The  grand  jury  was  in  session  two  days  at  the  April 
term,  1899,  and  four  days  at  the  November,  1899,  term  at  Socorro,  at  a  cost  of 
^1,100.80  to  the  govenunent,  and  no  indictments  were  found. 

Other  illustrations  can  be  given  of  the  heavy  expense  to  which  the  United  States 
is  put  in  the  direction  indicated.  This  expense  will  be  greatly  reduced  if,  as  con- 
templated in  the  inclosed  draft,  sutticient  names  are  included  in  the  venires  as  sub- 
stitutes for  those  who  may  be  disqualitied  or  excused. 

I  urgently  recommend  that  the  bill  suggested  be  submitted  to  Congress,  and  that 
its  passage  be  secured  at  the  present  session. 

Very  respectfully,  John  W.  Griggs, 

Attorney-General. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    KILL.  77 

And  further  tho  witness  saith  not.  Jury  pay  rolls  and  receipts 
referred  to  by  United  States  Marshal  Foraker  attached  as  Exibit  D. 

At  2  o'clock  [).  in.  the  connnittee  resumed  the  hearing-  of  testimony 
at  the  last  above-named  place  and  date. 

Abran  Abeyta.  first  having-  ))eeii  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  maj^  state  your  name  to  the  coumiittee. — A.  Mv  name  is 
A})ran  Al)eyta. 

Q.  You  are  a  native  New  Mexican^ — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  was  born  right 
here. 

Q.  How  old  are  you? — A.  Forty-one  years  old. 

Q.  What  is  your  official  position? — A.  I  am  treasurer  and  colh^-tor 
of  kSocorro  Coimty. 

Q.  In  issuing  notices  and  posting  notices  out  through  the  count}^ — 
do  you  do  that? — A.   1  send  notices  to  every  person  in  the  county. 

Q.  Do  vou  send  those  notices  in  Spanish  or  English? — A.  In  Eng- 
lish. 

Q.   Do  vou  post  any  notices? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  do  you  post  them? — A.  VYe  give  the  notice  in  the  news- 
papers and  post  a  notice. 

Q,  Do  you  do  that  both  in  Spanish  and  English? — A.  JNo,  sir;  in 
English,     We  used  to  have  some  in  Spanish,  but  we  have  quit  that. 

Q.   What  is  the  population  of  Socorro  County  ? — A.  It  is  10,000. 

Q.  And  how  many  of  those  are  Mexican'?— A.  I  think  it  is  about 
two-thirds. 

BOYS   ARE    LEARNING    ENGLISH. 

Q.  Do  the}"  use  the  Spanish? — A.  The  old  settlers  use  the  Spanish, 
but  the  boys  are  learning  English. 

Q.  Do  you  say  that  the  notices  of  the  tax  collections  are  made  in 
English  ? — Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  what  al)out  the  legal  notices  for  the  probate  of  wills? — A. 
They  are  given  in  English. 

Q.  Is  that  under  your  jurisdiction? — A.  No,  sir;  that  is  under  the 
})robate  judge. 

Q.  What  is  the  nature  of  the  country  in  Socorro  County,  as  to  the 
occupation  of  the  people? — A.   Well,  it  is  farming  and  mining. 

Q.  The  farming  is  along  the  Rio  Grande? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.   By  irrigation  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Away  from  the  Rio  Grande,  up  on  the  mesas,  the  occupation  is 
herding,  is  it? — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  is  the  largest  sheep-raising  county  in 
the  Territory,  I  think. 

Q.  What  mines  have  you  down  there? — A.  Gold  and  silver  and 
lead. 

Q.  Can  you  name  some  of  the  mines? — A.  We  have  the  Hardscrab- 
ble  at  Magdalena.  and  the  Kelly  mine  at  Magdalena,  and  we  have  a 
good  many  mines  in -the  Morgoaaon  district. 

Q.  AVhat  is  the  nature  of  those  mines? — -A.  They  are  copper  and 
gold. 

Q.  Have  3'ou  any  newspapers  published  in  Socorro? 


78  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

NEWSPAPERS. 

A.  Yes,  sir;  wo  have  the  Soeorro  Chieftain:  we  have  the  San  Mar- 
eiel.  and  we  have  El  llepuhlieana,  an  English  and  Spanish  newspaper. 
And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

James  A.  Summers,  first  having  been  duh'  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Mv  name  is 
James  A.  Summers. 

Q.   What  is  your  position? — A.  I  am  prol)ate  clerk  and  recorder. 

Q.  With  regard  to  the  printing  of  legal  notices  posted  up  in  the 
court-house  and  other  places,  what  is  the  fact  as  to  their  being  printed 
in  Spanish  and  English? — A.   Well,  the  law  requires 

LEGAL   NOTICES   MUST   BE    PRINTED    IN    SPANISH    AND    ENGLISH. 

Q.  That  they  ])e  printed  in  both  languages? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  they  are  so  printed? — A.  Yes,  sir:  1  have  a  copy  here. 
These  are  filed  also  with  the  papers. 

Q.  Are  these  the  same  [indicating  copies  of  notice]  i — A.  Yes,  sir; 
just  the  same  thing. 

Q.  Can  you  let  the  committee  have  these? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  These  are  the  notices  that  were  posted  up,  one  in  English  and 
the  other  in  Spanish  ? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

And  here  the  said  notices,  identified  by  the  witness  and  given  to 
the  committee  as  evidence,  were  read  in  evidence  and  are  attached 
as  Exhibit  PI 

W.  E.  Dame,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  State  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  W.  E.  Dame,  clerk  of  the 
district  court  for  the  second  judicial  district  of  New  Mexico  Territory. 

Q.  Have  3^ou  some  of  the  dockets  and  records  of  that  court  here 
with  you? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  have. 

Q.  Will  you  please  furnish  to  the  committee  a  certified  copy  of  the 
final  judgment,  and  order  amending  the  same,  in  this  case  [pointing  to 
entry  in  order  book],  wherein  A])eline  A.  Aguirre  et  al.  are  plaintiffs 
and  Francisco  A.  Sarracio  et  al.  are  defendants,  and  make  the  same  a 
part  of  your  testimony? — A.   Yes,  sir;  I  will  furnish  it  at  once. 

Further  the  witness  saith  not. 

And  here  said  certified  copy  of  said  judgment  and  order  furnished 
bv  the  last-named  witness  and  made  a  part  of  his  testimonv  is  attached, 
marked  ''  Exhibit  F." 

Anastasio  C.  Torres,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
Anastacio  C.  Torres. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  79 

Q.  You  are  a  native  New  Mexican  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  old  are  you? — A.  1  was  born  in  the  town  of  Socorro, 
Socorro  County,  N.  Mex. 

Q.  How  old 'are  you? — A.  I  am  83  years  old,  to  the  best  of  my 
recollection. 

Q.  You  are  the  county  superintendent  of  schools  in  Socorro 
County? — A.  1  am  the  ex-county  superintendent  and  the  newly  elected 
county  superintendent.  1  had  a  majority  at  the  last  election,  but  the 
certificate  has  not  been  issued  yet. 

Q.  How  large  is  Socorro — I  mean  the  town  { — A.  The  town  of  Socorro 
contains  about  twenty -five  hundred  people,  to  the  best  of  my  knowledoe. 

Q.  And  the  county? — A.  And  the  county— there  is  a  little  over — 
between  eighteen  and  twenty  thousand  people  in  the  county. 

Q.  How  many  schools  in  the  county,  outside  of  Socorro? — A.  There 
was  during  my  incumbency  in  office,  if  I  am  not  mistaken,  44  school 
districts,  including  the  one  in  the  city  of  Socorro  itself,  all  included 
in  one  district. 

TWO-THIRDS    SPANISH-SPEAKING    PEOPLE. 

Q.  The  population  in  the  country  districts  is  very  largely  Mexican, 
as  the  committee  understands  it,  as  that  term  is  used  down  here? — A. 
In  the  rural  districts  perhaps  two-thirds  of  tlie  districts  are  possibly  of 
Spanish -speaking  people  and  one-third  of  English-speaking  people — 
somewhere  in  that  neighborhood. 

Q.  And  the  language  which  these  two  classes  use  among  themselves 
is  their  own  native  tongue? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  schools  taught  out  in  the  country  teach  what  branches  ?--A. 
They  teach  English,  or  both  ?]nglish  and  Spanish;  that  is  the  Territo- 
rial rule. 

Q.  That  is  your  statutory  requirement?— A.  Yes,  sir;  both  English 
and  Spanish, "and  English;  and  those  where  they  begin— where  they 
can  not  have  taken  the  English  alone — they  have  to  teach  both  P]ng- 
lish  and  Spanish. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

H.  G.  Baca,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  vour  name  to  the  coinmittee. — A.  M}^  name  is 
H.  G.  Baca. 

Q.  You  live  in  Socorro?— A.  Yes,  sir;  1  live  in  Socorro. 

Q.  You  are  a  native  New  Mexican? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  was  born  right 
there  in  Socorro. 

Q.  You  are  a  merchant  there? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  the  nature  of  your  merchandising  establishment? — A. 
Well,  I  am  out  of  the  business  now,  and  have  been  for  the  last  two 
years,  and  1  have  been  probate  clerk  of  Socorro  County. 

Q.  Are  you  probate  clerk  now? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  issuing  notices,  legal  notices,  from  your  office,  in  what  lan- 
guage are  they  issued? — A.  In  English. 

Q.  Is  it  the"  same  in  Socorro  County  under  the  law  as  it  is  under  the 
law  in  this  county? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


80  NEW    ST.\.TEHO()D    lULL. 

NOTICES   ISSUED   IN    TWO   LANGUAGES. 

Q,  Thoi!  it  is  issued  in  botli  lano-uaoes,  and  thoy  aro  posted  up  in 
both  lanouao-es^ — A.  Yes.  sir;  they  are  issued  and  posted  up  in  both 
laiiti'uaj^es. 

Q.  You  have  been  in  Socorro  C4)unty  tdl  your  life^  A,  I  have  been 
in  Texas. 

Q.  How  lono- have  you  been  in  Socorro  County  ^ — A.  Ail  my  life, 
except  two  years. 

Q.  Have  you  been  out  over  the  country,  in  the  country  districts  in 
that  county? — A.  Never  out  more  than  two  3'ears;  I  have  been  in 
Texas. 

Q.  1  mean  out  in  the  country. — A.  Oh,  yes;  yes,  sir;  1  have  been 
out  in  the  country. 

Q.  Tlie  people  who  live  out  in  the  country  are  of  what  character,  of 
what  racial  character.  Mexican  or  American? — A.  They  are  both. 

Q.  What  is  the  proportion? — A.  The  bio-uest  proportion  is  natives; 
Mexicans. 

Q.  What  lang'uag'e  do  they  use  among-  themselves? — A.  Well,  among- 
themselves  the  Spanish  language. 

Q.  And  when  these  people  come  into  town  to  your  office  to  see  you, 
what  language  do  they  use  in  talking  to  you? — A.  The  bigg^est  part 
the  English  language. 

Q.  The  Spanish  language  is  your  original  native  language? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Y'^ou  learned  the  English  ?  -  A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  Y^ou  speak  the  P^nglish  with  an  accent  now? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  When  these  peo})le  come  into  your  office  to  see  you,  what  lan- 
guage do  they  use  in  talking  to  .you? — A.  We  use  the  English  language 
among  ourselves,  we  Mexicans,  but  generall.y  all  the  business  1  have 
transacted  in  the  English  language;  sometimes  when  the}"  do  not  talk 
the  English  we  talk  Spanish  to  them. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

A.  A.  Sedillo,  iirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Y'ou  mav  state  vour  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Mv  name  is 
A.  A.  Sedillol^ 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  New  ^Mexican? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  How  old  are  you? — A.  Twenty-seven, 

Q.  Are  you  the  court  interpreter? — A.   Well,  1  have  ])een. 

Q.  When  ? — A.  This  last  term  of  court, 

Q.  The  Territorial  or  Federal  court? — A.  Well,  we  have  only  one 
kind  of  court  here. 

Q.  Well,  you  have  one  court  with  two  sides  to  it? — A.  Well,  on 
both  sides. 

Q.  Y'our  duties  consist  of  translating  the  testimony  of  witnesses  to 
the  jury  and  the  court?     A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q,  The  argjjnients  of  counsel  to  the  jurj' ? — A,   Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  And  the  charg<>  of  the  court  to  the  jury? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  In  what  n-v  tanc(\s  have  you  been  required  to  be  in  the  jurv  room 
to  interpret  amo  g  the  jurois? — A.  None  whatever,  except  the  grand 
jury. 


NEW    r^TATEHOOB    BILL.  81 

INTERPRETEU    IX    THE    GKAM)   JURY. 

Q.  That  was  each  timo  (in  the  o-rund  jurv,  I  supjjose? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.   And  what  district  is  this^ — A.  The  Fifth  judicial  district. 
Q.  Is  that  Jud|^e  McMillan's  court? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  Senator  Dillinciiam: 

Q.  Where  were  you  educated^ — A.  Ki^ht  here  in  the  Territory;  in 
fact,  I  have  had  no  education:  I  just  picked  it  up. 

Q.  You  use  good  English. — A.  ^^'ell,  1  do  not  know;  I  think  1  use 
better  Spanish  than  English;  I  use  the  Spanish  most  of  the  time.  By 
the  last  term  of  court  I  meant  the  court  before  the  present  session. 
Court  is  in  session  now. 

Q.   Is  Judge  McMillan  holding  that  court  now^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Charles  P.  Neavhall,  called  as  a  witness  before  the  committee, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Please  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Charles  P. 
Newhall. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  here,  Mr.  Newhall  i — A.  Seven  years. 

Q.  You  are  tax  collector  'i — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  also  assistant  cashier  of  the  First  Nationrd  Bank  of  Albu- 
querque?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

tax    notices    IX    SPANISH. 

Q.  The  conmiittee,  in  driving  through  the  country  yesterda3%  noticed 
posted  up,  l)earing  your  name,  some  notices;  what  notices  were  they? — 
A.  Well,  the}'  were  the  notices  for  the  collection  or  payment  of  taxes; 
taxes  are  now  due. 

Q.  Those  are  printed  and  posted  up  through  the  country  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  Is  that  in  accordance  w^ith  the  law? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  it  is. 

Q.  The  committee  observed  that  tliose  were  printed  in  Spanish. — 
A.   Well,  most  of  them  would  lie  Spanish  in  the  outlying  precincts, 

Q.  Of  course  the  committee  takes  it  that  where  the  population  is 
both  so-called  American  and  Mexican  that  they  are  in  both  lan- 
guages?— A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  leave  a  copv  of  your  bank  statement  with  the  com- 
mittee to  go  with  your  testimony? — A.  Yes,  sir;  here  is  one. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

(The  bank  statement  left  by  the  last  witness  is  attached  as  Exhibit  G.) 

Prof.  William  George  Tight,  called  as  a  witness  by  the  commit- 
tee, testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairmax: 

Q.  Please  state  vour  name  to  the  committee. — A.  AVilliam  George 
Tight. 

Q.   Where  are  you  from  i — A.   From  Ohio. 

Q.  You  are  president  of  the  Universit}'  of  New  Mexico  ? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

H  s  B 6 


82  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  What  school  did  you  roino  from '. — A.  1  cunie  from  Denison  Uni- 
versity, Ohio. 

Q.  W(MV  you  president  of  that? — A.  No,  sir;  I  was  professor  of 
geology  there. 

Q.  What  parts  of  New  Mexico  had  you  gone  through  before  you 
came  here  to  the  university!; — A.  I  was  in  Albuquerque,  Socorro, 
Magdalena,  and  after  that  1  made  a  trip  into  the  mountains  on  a 
geological  expedition. 

Q.  Did  you  ever  go  over  the  country  districts? — A.  Except  on  that 
trip,  and  a  little  I  have  been  around  the  last  year  in  the  Territor3\ 

Q.  AMiat  time  did  you  make  these  geological  trips? — A.  We  were 
out  three  weeks — out  in  the  mountains. 

CLASSES   MET. 

Q.  Did  you  observe  the  people  through  the  country  districts? — ^A. 
Wh}",  some;  ves,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  their  racial  character  as  distinguished  by  the  terms 
Mexican  and  American,  as  they  are  used  down  here?— A.  Well,  1  met 
both  classes,  of  course;  of  course  we  did  not  meet  verj-  many  out  in 
the  mountains. 

Q.  Did  you  meet  some  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  some  native  people. 

MOSTLY    SPANISH    SPOKEN. 

Q.  \\\  these  geological  expeditions  of  yours,  what  language  did  you 
find  the  native  people  speaking  among  themselves? — A.  Most  of  them 
speak  Spanish.  Perhaps,  however,  I  should  say  as  a  rule  1  could 
make  myself  understood.     I  never  had  an}^  trouble  to  get  along. 

Q.  What  language  do  they  use  among  themselves? — A.  I  think  the}" 
speak  Spanish,  mostly. 

Q.  Did  you  observe  anything  on  these  geological  trips  of  the  coun- 
try schools? — A.  No,  sir;  I  did  not. 

Q.  Did  you  observe  the  speech  of  the  children  in  these  country 
hamlets — among  themselves? — A.  Not  ver}"  much,  because  1  did  not 
stop  very  much  in  the  hamlets,  because  we  were  on  camping  trips. 
We  had  our  own  camping  outfit  with  us.  I  did  not  see  a  great  deal 
of  them. 

Q.  In  the  country  districts  the  language  used  among  the  nati\"e 
population  between  parents  and  children  was  what? — A.  As  near  as  I 
am  acquainted  with  it,  it  was  Spanish. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  president  of  the  university? — A.  A 
year,  and  thus  far  into  this  year.     Last  3'ear  was  xwx  first  3'ear. 

Q.  What  time  did  you  come  here  last  j^ear? — A.  I  came  here  the 
11th  of  August  last  year. 

Q.  The  seat  of  the  university  is  here  at  Albuquerque? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  about  a  mile  east,  I  think. 

NUIVIBER   OF   STUDENTS   IN   UNIVERSITY. 

Q.  How  man}"  students  have  you  now? — A.  About  one  hundred  and 
ten  here. 

Q.  Are  they  from  all  portions  of  the  Territory  ? — A.  Y"es,  sir;  fairly 
well  distributed;  the  larger  per  cent  are  from  Albuquerque.     We  have 


NEvr  r;TATp:H()!)i)  hill.  88 

one  pupil  witli  a  150 mile  drive  to  get  to  the  railroad  to  come  here  to 
school,  from  the  western  part  of  the  country. 

Q.  What  are  the  studies  tauu-ht ' — A.  We  have  the  regular  college 
instruction.  Qui-  standinu'  is  ecjual  to  the  standing  of  any  of  the  I'^ast- 
ern  schools,  as  far  as  scholarships  are  concerned.  Our  four-years' 
academic  course  admits  directly  to  Berkeley,  Harvard,  and  Chicago, 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Chaeles  E.  Hodgin,  called  as  a  witness  by  the  connnittee,  testiiied 
as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Please  state  your  name  to  th(^  committee. — A.  Charles  E. 
Hodgin. 

Q.   Where  arc  you  from? — A.  From  Indiana. 

Q.  What  part  of  Indiana? — A.  Well.  Terre  Haute.  Kichmond.  and 
Indianapolis. 

Q.  How  long  have  3'ou  been  out  here  ^ — A.  About  eighteen  years. 

Q.  How  old  are  3'ou? — A.  I  am  past  40. 

Q.  Where  have  you  lived  in  the  Tei'ritory  ? — A.  I  have  been  in 
Allniquerque  all  the  time:  1  came  direct!}-  from  Eichmond  here. 

Q.  Did  you  teach  school  back  in  Indiana? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  you  came  out  here  and  taught  school  i — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  You  are  now  professor  of  pedagogy  in  the  university? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  How  lorig  have  you  held  that  position? — A.  Fi\'e  years;  this  is 
the  sixth  year. 

Q.  How  long  has  the  university  l)een  in  operation^ — About  ten 
years,  I  think,  since  it  began  operation. 

STUDENTS    IN    NORMAL    DEPARTMENT. 

Q.  How  man}^  students  have  you  under  you  in  your  department? — 
A.  Only  eight  or  ten  in  the  normal  de]>artment;  that  is  just  simply  a 
department  of  the  university. 

Q.  Where  are  the}'  from? — A.  They  are  from  the  different  pans  of 
the  Territory. 

Q.  Where  are  the  most  of  them  from? — A.  Most  of  them  are  from 
All>uquerque. 

Q.  Hov\'  many  of  them  are  from  Albuquerque? — A.  I  think  of  the 
present  number  about  four.  There  are  some  of  them,  of  course,  who 
are  transient;  they  have  moved  in  here  from  other  places,  and  we  call 
them  from  Albuquerque.  A  great  many  come  in  from  other  places  on 
account  of  the  health  of  some  member  of  the  family. 

Q.  Do  they  come  from  the  Territory  ? — A.  ^^^ell,  from  the  Territory 
and  other  States. 

Q.  These  twelve  that  you  have  under  you,  some  of  them  are  from 
Albuquerque? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  instruction  that  you  give  these  students  is  in  the  art  of  teach- 
ing?— A.  i'es,  sir;  psychology  and  the  scier.ce  of  teaching.  I  just 
brought  the  Indiana  State  Normal  along,  as  near  as  I  could. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 


84  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Atanasio  Montoya,  tirst  htivin.o-  boon  duly  swoni,  testilied  as 
follows: 

By  the  Cii airman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  eonunittee. — A.  My  name  is 
Atanasio  Montoya. 

Q.   You  are  a  native  New  Mexican?— A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.   How  old  are  YOU?— A.  1  am  26  years  old. 

Q.  Where  do  you  live,  or  where  have  you  lived  in  the  Territory?— 
A.    1  live  in  a  little  town  3  or  4  miles  above  this  town. 

Q.  Do  you  live  there  now?— A.  Yes,  sir.  Excuse  me,  I  was  not 
))orn  there.     I  was  born  in  a  little  villag-e  farther  down^ 

Q.  You  are  a  i)rivate  teacher  of  Spanish  now? — A.  Yes,  sir, 

PKIYATE    teaching    IN    SPANISH. 

Q.  How  lon_a-  have  you  t)een  a  private  teacher  of  Spanish? — A.  1 
have  ))een  gi\ino'  private  lessons  for  seYeral  years;  in  fact,  1  gave  pri- 
vate instruction  before  I  was  appointed  teacher  of  Spanish  in  the  uni- 
Yersity.     1  have  had  no  class  for  a  year. 

Q.  Last  year,  when  you  had  a  class  last,  how  many  did  you  have? — 
A.  I  do  not  remember'quite  ^vell  whether  1  had  two  classes  or  one.  I 
had  one,  which  was  the  largest,  composed  of  teachers  at  the  Indian 
school,  10  or  12  of  them,  and'then  I  had  several  private  pupils  in  town. 

Q.  Are  you  going  to  organize  private  schools  here  in  this  city  this 
fall?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  furthei-  the  witness  saith  not. 

Hon.  B.  S.  Eodey  appeared  before  the  committee  and  made  the 
following  statement: 

1  assume,  Senators,  that  the  statement  th:it  I  made  in  Washington 
before  the  committee,  being  in  print,  is  to  be  used  by  the  committee 
in  its  delil)erations,  and  that  you  have  a  copy.  To  that  I  have  not 
much  to  add  save  that  in  the  recent  campaign,  when  I  went  around 
the  Territory,  I  noticed  such  a  vast  improvement  in  things  as  that  I 
would  like  to  have  known  it— to  have  testiiicni  a))out  it  at  that  time  in 
Washington. 

The  building  of  the  Rock  Island  road  in  the  southeastern  part  of 
the  Territorv  has  tilled  up  that  territory  until  instead  of  l)eing  some- 
what dull,  a.s  it  was  for  three  or  four  hundred  miles  some  two  years 
ago.  it  is  quite  prosperous  now.  Many  mining  companies  have  come 
in  there  and  tilled  up  the  whole  section  of  the  country  along  the  line. 
I  assume  that  if  vou  are  taken  bv  Mr.  Hawkins  up  to  Alamagordo 
you  will  see  a  part  of  this  country.  I  Avish  to  say  that  in  the  neigh- 
borhood of  Silver  City  and  that  connnunity,  on  account  of  the  mines 
belonging  to  the  Hearst  society  l)eing  developed,  that  the  territory 
lias  inlproved  vastly.  In  the  northwest,  too.  there  has  been  a  large 
influx  of  inmiigration  there,  and  the  territory  is  vastly  improved  also. 

The  conunittee's  tour  so  far  has  been  along  this  line  of  railway,  and 
thev  have  come  in  contact  with  the  counties  which  are  more  than  half- 
and-half  Spanish  speaking  in  the  ordinary  sense.  No  county  is  Spanish 
.speaking  in  the  usual  sense,  because  while  lots  of  people  speak  Spanish 
thev  also  speak  English,  and  while  their  language  in  their  own  hamlets 
would  ])e  Spanish  thev  also  speak  English.'    There  are  many  counties 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  85 

in  the  Territory  which  you  have  not  visited,  and  whii-h  you  will  not  on 
account  of  time,  which  are  ahnost  exclusively  Enodish:  some  of  thi^m 
not  so  larg-e  as  the  Spanish  speaking-,  so  called,  some  of  tlunn  (|uite  as 
large.  In  some  of  these  comities  they  never  have  an  interpreter 
except  once  in-  a  while  when  a  witness  who  speaks  Spanish  oidy  is 
brought  in,  and  then  they  have  an  interpreter. 

ENGLISH-SrEAKINt;    COUNTIES. 

To  name  these  counties.  Edd^y  County  in  the  southeast  corner,  Chaves, 
next  county  north  of  it.  are  as  English  speaking  as  any  county  in  New 
England.  Guadaloupe.  north  of  that,  is  going-  to  be  largely  English 
speaking,  because  of  the  intiiix  of  new  population  caused  f)y  the  build- 
ing of  the  railroad.  Colfax  and  Union  counties  are  largely  English 
speaking,  and  they  never  have  interpreters  or  any  i>ut  English-speak- 
ing juries.  Perhaps  I  had  better  modify  that  by  saying-  that  in  Colfax* 
County  there  will  be  times  when  an  interpreter  is  needed,  but  Colfax 
is  in  fact  and  is  considered  so  overwhelmingly  English  speaking  that 
we  have  classed  it  that  way.  Take  the  city  of  Raton.  It  has  forty- 
five  hundred  people  and  only  four  or  live  hundred  natives,  and  many 
of  them  are  H)ng-lish  speaking-.  The  county  in  the  southeastern  corner 
has  a  number  of  Mexicans  in  it.  They  are  not  natives  in  this  country. 
They  are  not  citizens  of  the  I'nited  States.  They  are  peons  that  came 
there  from  old  Mexico.  They  do  not  have  any  interpreters  down 
there.  Luna,  east  of  that,  has  not  twenty-Mve  Mexican  residents  in 
the  county  at  all.  Otero  has  about — I  don't  know  how  many  Mexicans, 
and  it  is  slrictly  an  American  county  in  every  sense.  This  county  is 
about  half-and-half,  with  the  American  element  increasing-.  Santa  Fe 
County  is  contended  to  be  about  three-fourths  Mexican,  but  some  of 
the  citizens  of  that  county  contest  that,  and  say  only  half. 

Rio  Arriba  and  Taos  are  three-tifths  Spanish.  I  have  made  a  calcu- 
lation from  well-informed  people — the  census  gives  us  no  information 
on  the  subject,  but  I  am  satislied  the  population  of  New  Mexico  to-day, 
counting  every  race  w  hich  is  not  strictly  native  Mexicans,  is  about 
three-lifths  Mexican  and  two-tifths  Spanish.  Taking-  the  increase,  my 
calculation  is  that  of  all  the  population  of  New  Mexico,  three-fourths 
of  them  and  perhaps  a  little  better  can  speak  English.  I  have  lived 
here  in  New  Mexico  twenty-two  years.  1  have  been  through  several 
campaigns  l)ef ore  I  was  elected  to  Cong-ress,  and  of  course  in  these  cam- 
paigns 1  went  in  nearly  every  county  of  the  district.  In  my  two  cam- 
paigns that  I  have  gone  through  in  my  election  to  Congress  I  have 
been  all  through  the  Territory.  I  know  the  Territory's  history  as 
well  as  the  person  who  makes  it  his  business  can  learn  it  in  the  time  I 
have  been  here.  I  know  the  people  thoroughly.  They  are  a  good 
people.     They  are  not  a  people  at  all  inclined  to  violate  the  law. 

THE    TAX   QUESTION. 

One  of  the  things  that  [X'ople  may  look  at  with  disfavor  is  the  tax 
question.  We  return  ??3U.OUO,00<)  "of  property  for  taxjition  when  we 
have  easily  three  hundred  millions  of  proi)erty  in  the  Territory.  Three- 
fourths  of  the  property  is  easily  owned  by  Americans,  so  i-alled.  There- 
fore it  must  be  the  Aniericanswho  are  the  tax  dodgers.  Our  railroads 
alone  are  worth  more  than  our  entire  tax  returns.     Our  land  grants 


86  NEW    S'i'ATKH(*<)])    HILL. 

hold  hv  private  ownership  iire  worth  tilraost  as  much  as  our  entire  tax 
returns.  Our  houses  and  lots  in  the  cities  and  towns  are  worth  as 
nmch  as  our  tax  returns:  and  several  other  items,  especially  cattle  and 
wool  together,  are  worth  about  as  much.  We  figure  that  when  we 
come  into  a  State  of  the  Union  that  it  will  give  us  an  opportunity  to 
remedy  this  crying  evil.  Then  with  a  levy  of  1  per  cent,  limited  to 
that  in  our  constitution,  will  give  us  more  than  we  need. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  The  laws  under  which  your  tax  returns  are  made  are  Territorial 
laws,  are  thev  not? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  same  laws  under  which  the  returns  would  be  made  under 
statehood  would  be  passed  by  the  legislature? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  United  States  would  have  nothing  to  do  with  that? — A. 
^'o,  sir. 

Q.  And  if  you  were  a  State  your  tax  returns  would  idso  be  laws 
passed  by  the  State  legislature? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  So,  with  the  fact  of  statehood,  the  Territorial  government  would 
have  nothing  to  do  with  that  particular  point — the  laws  under  wdiich 
the  tax  returns  are  made? — A.  In  the  sense  in  which  you  ask  the  ques- 
tion, that  is  true.  We  have  ti-ied  to  correct  this  at  times.  We  tried 
to  get  our  assessors  together  and  have  them  i"ate  property  at  its  true 
market  value.  They  can  not  do  that  very  well  because  if  they  did 
they  would  get  a  lot  of  money  into  the  treasury  which  was  not  needed. 
One  county  "don't  like  to  return  its  taxes  at  ^»0  per  cent  of  its  value  and 
lia^e  another  county  rc^turn  its  at  '20  per  cent,  because  it  would  be  pay- 
ing an  undue  proportion  of  the  Territorial  taxes.  A  lot  of  the  people 
who  have  the  interests  of  the  Territory  at  heart  have  talked  this  thing- 
over  in  the  last  five  \'ears,  and  they  figure  it  out  that  a  plan  will  be 
adopted  under  the  State  constitution  that  will  ena))le  the  levy  to  be 
laid  within  1  per  cent. 

A   PROPOSED   SYSTEM. 

There  is  a  system  talked  of  of  leaving  to  the  executive  of  the  new 
State  the  power  of  appointing  assessors  for  a  time  at  least.  It  has 
been  talked  even  to  appoint  assessors  from  counties  remote  from  the 
counties  in  which  the  taxes  are  to  be  fixed.  Colorado  had  such  a 
trouble,  and  they  sent  a  committee  over  to  New  Zealand  or  Australia, 
liaving  heard  that  their  system  w^as  better  than  the  American  system, 
and  Senator  Teller  had  their  report  printed  as  a  Senate  document, 
and  the  edition  has  been  exhausted  two  or  three  times. 

The  omnilnis  statehood  l)ill  Ix^fore  your  committee  will  bring  a 
l)ounty  of  land  equal  to  that  which  ]Mr.  Ferguson  secured  for  the  Ter- 
ritory, and  it  is  figured  that  that  will  luring  to  us  more  than  we  have 
had  apportioned  to  us,  and  that  the  new  quatitity  of  land  that  will 
come,  put  with  those  Mr,  Ferguson  got  in  lb98,  will  practically  sup- 
port our  schools.     We  will  get  eight  or  nine  million  acres. 

B}'  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  Are  you  now  getting  sixteen  and  thirty-six  sections  in  each  town- 
ship?— A.  Yes,  sir:  and  we  are  getting  two  million  in  the  statehood 
bill.  Franchise  taxes  will  support  the  State  government,  and  we  will 
have  no  government  to  sustain  except  the  county  and  municipal  gov- 
ernment, and  we  figure  that  the  limit  of  1  per  cent  will  bring  us  more 


NEW  stat?:hood  bill.  87 

than  twice  as  much  as  we  will  need.  1  state  to  this  committee  in  the 
best  of  faith  that  1  have  no  more  doubt  about  the  people  of  New  Mex- 
ico sustaining-  a  State  o-overnment  as  patriotic  citizens,  and  sustaining 
a  National  (lovernment,  than  I  have  of  the  peoph^  of  any  other  State 
in  the  Union  doing  it.  At  the  close  of  the  hist  session  of  Congress  I 
took  my  wife  and  cliildren  down  to  Rockaway  Beach,  and  I  saAv  there 
in  that  neighborhood  in  the  time  that  we  stayed  there  a  million  per- 
sons, and  1  compared  them  mentally,  and  I  have  no  doubt  of  the  com- 
parison being  favorably  made  between  those  people  and  our  people. 
Our  people  in  this  Territory — our  American  people  in  this  Territory — 
are  among  the  brightest  and  best  people  in  the  world. 

NATIVES    HAVE    PASSED    LAWS    FOR   FIFTY   YEARS. 

The  natives  have  been  here  tifty  years  and  have  been  passing  their 
own  law^s  and  Congress  never  annulled  but  one  law,  and  that  was  w^hen 
the  legislature  many  years  ago  chartered  a  denominational  school  and 
Congress  promptly  annulled  the  act.  When  w^e  look  at  the  aldermen 
in  St.  Louis,  and  the  mixtures  in  politics  that  we  have  in  Colorado, 
and  the  political  conditions  we  have  in  New  York,  where  the  people 
rise  up  and  try  to  throw  off  the  most  corrupt  oligarchy  ever  seen  in  a 
city.  1  think  we  will  come  along  all  right.  We  realize  that  capital 
does  not  invest  itself  in  the  Territory  with  the  ease  or  in  the  amounts 
that  it  would  in  a  State,  and  for  that  reason  the  people  are  clamorous 
for  statehood  and  Ave  believe  that  we  will  progress  n  great  deal  faster 
under  a  State  government  than  under  a  Territorial  form.  Above  and 
behind  all  that,  since  the  insular  decisions  of  the  Supreme  Court,  we 
hate  to  live  under  a  condition  where  we  could  be  ceded  awa}^  in  time 
of  war,  and  where  Congress  could  pass  a  tariff  act  shutting  out  our 
members  from  the  State. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Is  it  your  interpretation  of  the  law  that  that  could  be  done  under 
the  law? — A.  I  state  it  to  be  my  opinion  as  a  lawyer  that  I  believe 
that  the  same  Congress  which  extended  the  Constitution  over  us  can 
take  it  away.  1  l^dieve  that  the  same  Congress  which  passed  that  law 
can  revoke  it  and  take  the  Constitution  away. 

Q.  And  take  the  Constitution  away  ? — A.  1  think  so.  I  think  as  a 
matter  of  law  that  that  can  be  done.  It  is  doubtful  in  my  mind  if  a 
child  born  in  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico  is  eligible  to  the  JPresidency. 
The  courts  said  in  the  insular  decisions  that  the  provisions  of  the  Con- 
stitution that  takes  an  excise  should  be  equal  and  uniform  in  all  of  the 
States  don't  extend  to  all  the  Territories.  It  may  be  that  the  same 
rule  that  a  person  born  in  a  Territory  is  never  in  a  constitutional  sense 
a  natural-born  citizen  of  the  United  States.  Lewis  Cass  went  into  the 
Cabinet  from  the  Territory  of  Michigan  and  was  afterwards  a  Senator 
from  the  State  of  Michigan.  John  Hay  went  into  the  Cabinet  from 
the  District  of  Columbia.  Those  are  two  notable  instances.  Congress 
has  returned  to  the  Territory  $80,U0()  a  year  in  off'  years  and  ^60,000 
a  year  in  legislative  years.  It  has  taken  the  I'evenues  from  the  Terri- 
tory under  the  law^s,'and  allowed  the  Indians  to  conmiit  depredations 
on  our  people;  and  the  progress  we  have  made  is  only  twenty  years 
old  in  New  Mexico.  If  the  conmiittee  will  take  the  time  to  look  at  the 
report  sent  in  this  morning  by  Colonel  Chaves,  Territorial  superinten- 


88  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

dent  of  schoolts,  thev  will  see  that  we  have  about  1,000  .school-teachers 
in  the  Territoiy  and  that  our  school  property  is  worth  ^2,50(»,O0O. 
We  have  crude  schools  in  some  instances,  and  in  some  there  are  good 
ones.  Our  city  schools  compare  favorably  with  any  of  those  of  the 
Eastern  and  Central  States.  With  reference  to  the  testimony'  that  the 
committee  has  taken,  I  have  watched  its  course.  You  have  got  some 
evidence  as  to  country  justices  of  the  peace  and  some  in  the  towns. 
You  find  some  of  them  crude  and  some  intelligent  justices  of  the  peace, 
even  more  than  you  expected  to  find. 

COURT  AND  COUNTY  RECORDS. 

You  will  find  that  our  court  records  compare  favorably  with  an}^ 
State  in  the  Union.  You  will  find  that  our  county  records  are  in  good 
shape.  You  must  have  become  satisfied  from  your  investigation  that 
notwithstanding  the  difficulties  under  which  the  people  have  labored, 
that  the  overwhelming  language  is  English.  Personally,  1  can  tell 
you  that  the  native  people  here  are  very  anxious  for  the  education  of 
their  children.  I  have  been  approached  time  and  again  by  people  who 
wanted  me  to  try  to  get  their  children  into  the  Indian  schools  when 
they  had  enough  Indian  blood  to  swear  that  they  were  part  Indian  to 
get  them  in  there.  It  is  proposed  to  adopt  one  of  the  best  constitu- 
tions for  the  State  of  New  Mexico  that  it  is  possible  for  them  to 
frame,  and  to  get  along  to  their  destination  as  fast  as  they  can.  It 
has  been  discussed  as  no  other  subject  has  been  discussed  in  the  Terri- 
tory. We  expected  to  be  admitted  as  a  State.  We  sincerely  hope  w^e 
will.  We  will  be  the  most  disappointed  people  in  the  United  States  if 
we  are  not.  We  regret  that  we  are  not  being  as  well  treated  as  the 
Philippines  and  Porto  Rico,  while  it  might  be  said  by  Congress  to  us 
now.  We  will  do  the  same  with  you  and  let  you  go  on.  We  will 
return  to  you  the  revenues  collected  from  the  Territory  as  we  are 
doing  in  the  Philippines  and  Porto  Rico.  We  believe  that  w^e  have 
advanced  to  where  statehood  is  the  remedy  for  us  now.  We  would 
like  to  have  a  voice  in  Congress. 

The  Territory  has  fifty  things  to  ask  Corigiess  where  the  State  has 
one  thing  to  ask  of  it.  Representation  in  Congress  is  so  helpless  that 
we  need  four  Delegates.  A  good  portion  of  my  time  in  the  last  session 
was  taken  up  l)y  the  Committee  on  Foreign  Relations  and  before  the 
Secretary  of  State  in  preventing  the  passage  of  laws  detrimental  to 
the  interests  of  the  Territory  in  regard  to  the  building  of  the  big 
international  dam  at  El  Paso. 

' '  INTERN ATIOXAL-DAM  ''    LA W\ 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  In  whose  interest  is  that  international-dam  law^ — A.  It  is  in  the 
interest  of  Texas,  but  more  largely  in  the  interest  of  the  Republic  of 
Mexico.  It  provides  that  a  mile  of  our  Territory  be  ceded  to  Mexico 
and  that  nobody  take  a  gallon  of  that  water  from  above  until  the  dam 
is  filled,  and  Mexico  waives  her  right  to  the  dam  against  the  United 
States  of  about  !^5O,O(>o,000. 

Q.  What  is  the  interest  of  Texas? — A.  The  interest  of  Texas  in  it 
is  to  tiy  to  get  more  water  for  El  Paso  and  the  territoiy  below  it» 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  89 

We  have  no  objection  to  that,  but  we  ha\e  objection  to  the  section  of 
the  bill  which  is  always  in  it  preventing-  us  from  taking  a  gallon  away 
from  it  north  of  it.  We  do  not  consent  that  there  is  any  such  thing 
as  an  international  appropriation  of  water,  and  that  therefore  we  are 
under  no  duty  to  Mexico  to  let  the  water  run  by  our  doors  to  our  own 
detriment  for  their  benefit.  Colorado  has  taken  so  much  of  the  water 
north  of  us  that  the  v'lvov  is  dry  many  months  of  the  year  right  o])po- 
site  the  room  in  which  you  sit.  The  irrigation  bill  is  the  greatest  law 
that  was  ever  passed  for  the  West  since  the  homestead  law  was  passed, 

"inadequate  representation." 

I  was  speaking  of  the  inadequac}^  of  the  representation  of  the  Ter- 
ritory to  Congress.  A  Territor}^  would  need  one  Delegate  on  the 
Hoor  of  the  House  eveiy  moment  from  the  time  the  session  opens 
until  it  closes,  because  all  the  Congressmen,  instead  of  acting  as  a 
board  of  aldermen  for  the  Territory,  as  they  ought  to,  actually  attack 
it  as  in  the  case  1  have  cited.  New^  Mexico  is  peculiarly  open  to  these 
attacks.  Then,  again,  we  would  need  another  one  before  the  commit- 
tee to  press  our  matters  before  the  connuittee.  Then  when  theN'  are 
all  done  we  need  another  one  before  the  Departments  and  another  one 
on  the  floor  of  the  Senate.  We  are  virtually  lobbyists  on  the  floor  of 
the  Senate  unless  we  can  get  some  good,  kind  Senator  to  act  as  our 
representative.  In  the  first  place  the  States  in  the  East  have  no  land 
matters.  There  are  many  land  matters  here. 
B}^  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Mr.  Rode}-,  the  committee  reported  every  one  of  your  bills 
except  the  statehood  bill,  did  they  not? — A.  Yes,  sir,  you  did:  but  in 
a  new-  Territory  like  New  Mexico  one  Delegate  is  wholly  inadequate. 

Q.  Do  you  think  all  the  time  that  the  connuittee  required  of  you 
last  session  on  all  the  l)ills  outside  of  the  statehood  bill,  was  there 
three  hours  all  told? — A.  It  might  not  have  been  more  than  three  hours 
actually  before  the  conmiittees,  but  the  time  I  spent  in  trying  to  get 
the  connnittees  to  meet,  and  trotting  around  and  getting  information 
would  be  many  days.  Take,  for  instance,  the  State  of  Wyoming,  about 
one-third  that  of  New  Mexico.  When  a  Representative  gets  through 
with  a  bill  in  the  House  he  promptly  passes  it  on  to  the  Senators  and 
they  take  care  of  it.  But  it  is  not  so  with  a  lone  Delegate,  who  has 
everything  to  attend  to  himself.  The  Territorv  asks  everything  it  has 
to  have  done  in  connection  with  their  schools  and  things.  They  have 
to  ask  the  consent  of  Congress  under  the  so-called  Harrison  law.  We 
have  to  ask  Congress,  while  if  we  were  a  State  and  had  these  lands 
absolutely  deeded  to  us  we  could  mortgage  them  and  put  up  our  build- 
ings; but  while  these  strings  are  tied  to  them,  now  we  can  not  do 
that.  When  a  State  is  an  ap])licant  for  a  thing  that  a  Territory  wants, 
the  State  always  has  the  preference;  whether  it  is  previously  stated 
that  it  shall  have  it  or  not,  it  is, the  case.  For  that  reason  and  many 
others  a  Territorial  government  over  a  vast  territor\'  like  we  have  here 
is  whollv  inadequate. 

O.  N.  Marron,  one  of  the  persons  selected  by  Delegate  Rodey  to 
appear  before  the  committee  on  behalf  of  the  Territory,  testified  as 
follows: 


90  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

By  Senator  Burniiam: 

Q.  State  your  name  to  the  couimittee. — A.  M3'  name  is  O.  N.  Marron. 

Q.  Where  do  you  reside  ? — A.  I  live  in  Albuquerque.  I  have  resided 
in  Albuquerque  "since  September,  1891.  Have  practiced  law  and  am  a 
practicing  attorney.  For  four  years,  from  November,  1803,  to  Decem- 
ber, 1S9T,  I  was  clerk  of  the  district  court  of  the  second  judicial  dis- 
trict of  this  Territory.  I  was  mayor  of  the  city  of  All)U([uerque  for 
three  terms. 

Q.  Now,  you  will  make  such  statements  as  you  may  wish  to  make  to 
the  committee. — A.  I  have  visited  every  town  of  any  importance  in 
the  Territory.  1  am  familiar  with  the  native  population,  and  my  expe- 
rience with  "them  has  been  to  prove  that  they  are  good  citizens,  good 
friends,  and  good  neighbors.     They  are  honest  and  intelligent. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  Mr.  Marron,  what  do  you  think  is  the  proportion  throughout 
the  Territory  of  the  Mexican  population  as  against  the  American,  by 
which  I  mean  all  others  than  Mexican  '( — A.  I  believe  that  the  Mexican 
population  predominates  in  New  Mexico.  The  proportion  of  Ameri- 
cans to  ]Mexicans  l)eing  pro])aljly  OO  and  1()(). 

Q.  Sixty  as  against  100^ — A."  Yes,  sir. 

AMERICAN    POPULATION    STABLE. 

Q.  Is  the  American  population  a  stable  one  i — A.  Yes,  sir.  There 
is  one  peculiarity  that  I  have  noticed  about  the  American  population, 
they  come  here  and  they  stay;  they  don't  go  away.  There  is  some- 
thing remarkable  about  the  climate,  about  the  country,  and  about  the 
people  that  strikes  them  and  they  stay  here. 

Senator  Burnham.  Now,  what  1  had  in  mind  was  any  statements 
that  you  cared  to  make  we  would  be  glad  to  hear.  That  is,  any  par- 
ticular thing  you  desired  to  say. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  Is  there  any  tendency  on  the  part  of  the  Mexican  population  to 
copv  after  the  Americans  and  to  use  the  English  language  and  Ameri- 
can" methods? — A.  There  is.  They  like  the  American  methods  and 
thej^  are  very  rapidly  adopting  the  American  methods.  They  have 
the"  American  agricultural  nuichinery.  They  are  very  largely  agri- 
culturists and  stock  raisers. 

SPANISH    THE    LANGUAGE    IN    THE    MEXICAN    HOMES. 

By  Senator  Burnham: 
Q.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  the  Mexicans,  as  a  rule,  in  their  own  homes 
verv  largely  use  the  Spanish  language^— A.  That,  I  think,  is  the  fact, 
Semitor.  There  is  no  question  about  that.  There^  is  no  information 
that  I  can  give  you  that  would  not  be  cumulative  evidence.  Of  course, 
we  Americans  and  the  Mexican  population,  as  the  last  election  shows, 
are  very  anxious  for  statehood.  We  believe  that  if  we  had  statehood 
the  great  undeveloped  resources  of  our  Territory  would  be  developed. 
That  we  would  have  a  great  intlux  of  population  here  that  would 
develop  our  country.  That  we  would  get  capital  here,  and  I  believe 
that  it  would  be  very  few,  but  a  very  few  years  until  the  American 
population  would  largely  dominate. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  91 

Q.   V^liat  State  do  you  come   from' — A.  1  came  from  New  York 
State,  up  on  Lake  Champlain;  from  Essex  Count}'. 
And  further  witness  saith  not. 

WiLLAK!)  S.  Hopewell,  lirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  Senator  Burnham: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  M}'  name  is 
Willard  S.  Hopewell. 

Q.  Tell  where  you  reside  and  what  is  your  occupation. — A.  Well, 
sir,  at  the  present  time  1  am  building  railroads,  although  I  am  inter- 
ested in  the  cattle  business,  in  raising  cattle.  I  reside  in  Sierra  County, 
N.  Mex. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  ))een  in  New  Mexico!' — A.  Twenty -three 
years  next  month,  sir. 

Q.  And  your  business  in  particular  has  been  what'^ — A.  Cattle  rais- 
ing and  mining,  and  for  the  last  two  years  I  have  been  interested  in 
railroad  building. 

Q.  Through  your  work  in  cattle  raising  and  mining  what  part  of 
the  Territory  have  you  been  familiar  with  i* — A.  With  all  the  southern 
part  of  the  Territory',  but  more  p-.n-ticularly  the  southwestern. 

HISTORY    OF    MINING    CAMl'S. 

Q.  In.  that  part  of  the  Territory  what  have  you  found  as  to 
race  division?— A.  Why,  when  I  lirst  went  in  there,  which  was 
twentv-two  or  twentj^-three  years  ago,  it  was  principally  Mexican  in 
the  section  I  was  in,  west  of  the  Kio  Grande.  Another  time,  in  the 
early  eighties — eighty-three,  eighty-four,  eighty-tive,  eighty-six,  or 
eighty-seven — the  great  mining  camps  at  Lake  Valley  and  Kingston 
opened  up.  and  the  Platte  raiich  district,  and  then  a  very  large  American 
poi)ulation  came  in;  but  after  the  silver  depreciated  in  value  the  camps 
closed  down,  and  the  American  population  decreased  to  a  very  large 
extent,  and  left  it  up  in  that  county.  Sierra,  about  evenly  divided. 
To-day  the  Mexican  population  in  that  county  predominates,  proba])ly 
60  per  cent  Mexican  to  -fO  per  cent  American. 

Q.  How  are  the  Mexican  people  occupied  in  the  section  that  you  are 
familiar  with? — A.  In  farming.  Agricultural  purposes  principally. 
Of  course,  when  the  mines  were  working  they  did  a  great  deal  of 
freighting  and  working  in  the  mines. 

Q.  ^^  ere  their  farming  operations  contined  to  the  river  borders? — 
A.  To  the  valleys:  yes,  sir. 

A.  At  farming  small  farms? — A.  Small  farms,  sir. 

MEXICANS   CONTINUE    SPANISH    LANGUAGE. 

Q.  Is  it  the  habit  of  the  Mexican  people  to  continue  the  use  of  the 
Spanish  language  in  their  own  homes? — A.  Yes,  sir;  to  a  very  large 
extent.     In  fact,  I  would  state  it  was  almost  universal. 

Q.  Of  course,  they  have  to  use  the  English  language  to  do  business 
with  the  English-speaking  people,  but  after  all  they  like  their  own 
language  and  talk  it? — A.  Yes,  sir.     Oh,  yes. 

Q.  And  they  talk  it,  then,  only  when  it  is  necessary  for  them  to  talk 
English? — A.  Yes,  sir.     But  I  will  say  this,  that  as  soon  as  I  went 


92  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

into  tliat  section  of  the  country,  tliat  wiiat  is  now  Sierra  County,  1  do 
not  supi)()s(^  there  was  over  one  hundred  Enoli.sh-speaking  people  at 
the  outside.  Now,  I  would  say  tliat  75  per  cent  of  the  Mexican  people 
talk  English,  but  they  will  not  talk  it  unless  they  have  to. 

ENGLISH    CONFINED   TO   THE    YOUNGER    ELEMENT. 

Q.  Then  English  is  practically  contined  to  the  younger  element?— 
A.  Oh.  yes;  that  is  very  true.  "  And  that  being  a  far^ning  country  in 
that  particular  section,  and  the  Mexicans  working  in  the  mines  and 
mixing  up  with  the  American  miners,  developed  the  Mexican  popula- 
tion into  speaking  English  much  more  so  than  in  many  of  the  other 
counties  in  the  Territory,  until  to-day  in  Sierra  County  you  can  not  go 
to  any  town  or  village  but  what  a  large  num1)er  speak  the  English 
language. 

Q.  But  the  prevalent  language  is  the  Spanish  language? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  in  the  Mexican  districts  they  talR  the  Spanish. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  Being  acquainted  with  the  outlying  districts,  have  you  noticed 
their  schools  throughout  the  country  pretty  generally? — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  is  taught  in  these  schools;  whether  they  use 
the  English  or  the  Spanish  language? — A.  Why,  in  that  section  of  the 
country  I  have  been  a  school  director  for  a  great  numlier  of  years. 
They  always  employ  in  the  Spanish  districts  a  teacher  that  can  speak 
both  the  English  and  Spanish,  which  was  very  necessary;  Vnit  the 
educational  progress  amongst  the  people  of  the  southern  portion  of 
the  Territory  has  been  very  great  in  the  last  ten  years.  The  school- 
house  facilities  and  the  employment  of  teachers  has  been  gone  into 
very  carefully,  not  only  in  Sierra  County  but  in  Socorro  ('ounty.  Of 
course,  if  vou  go  over  into  Grant  County,  tlie  extreme  southwest 
county  of  the  Territory,  that  is  what  we  call  an  American  county,  and 
the  English,  of  course,  predominates.  In  the  valley  of  the  Minvus, 
which  is  a  nice  farming  region,  with  a  large  Mexican  population,  there 
is  no  trouble  in  going-  up'  and  down  there  to  talk  with  any  of_  them 
there  now  in  the  English  language,  because  they  have  had  to  mix  and 
associate  so  nmch  with  the  Americans  that  they  have  acquired  the 
English  language,  ])oth  the  old  and  the  new  language.  They  have  had 
to  do  their  business  in  English,  because  the  Americans  would  not  learn 
the  Spanish,  and  when  necessity  comes  in  they  seem  to  acquire  and 
learn  the  English  language  very  readily. 

ENGLISH    AND    SPANISH    BOOKS    USED. 

By  Senator  Burnham: 
Q.  Do  you  know  whether  in  the  schools  books  in  the  Spanish  are 
used? — A.  Books  in  English  and  Spanish  are  used;  yes,  sir.     I  bought 
some  for  the  sixth  year  in  the  Mexican  precincts  in  Sierra  County  for 
Spanish  and  for  English  for  use  in  the  schools. 

SCHOOL    attendance    REGULAR. 

By  Senator  TIeitfeld: 
Q.   Do  the  children  atticnd  school   pretty  regularly  ^— A.   Yes,  sir; 
the  attendance  is  verv  remarkable  in  the  Mexican   precincts  of  our 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  93 

districts.  Tliey  have  a  larger  attendance  than  in  the  American  pre- 
cincts. Although  we  have  a  compulsory  school  law  compelling- attend- 
ance, they  seem  to  be  very  desirous  in  that  part  of  the  Territory  to 
acquire  an  education. 

Q.  Is  there  any  sort  of  race  feeling,  or  a  disposition  on  the  i)art  of 
the  Mexicans  to  get  awa}'  from  the  Americans  and  to  isolate  them- 
selves'^— A.  Not  half  as  much  as  among  the  Americans,  and  that  has 
been  proven  in  the  elections.  For  instance,  I  am  a  Democrat  and  Mr. 
»Toseph,  who  was  the  Delegate  to  Congress  several  times,  when  an  Ameri- 
can was  running  against  him  in  the  election  two  3'ears  ago,  when  Mr. 
Rodey  ran,  he  had  2,700  majority.  In  our  county  we  have  always 
counted  on  the  Mexican  element  to  vote  the  Democratic  ticket,  while 
the  natural  tendenc}'  of  the  Mexican  element  in  the  Territory"  is  to 
vote  the  Kepul)lican  ticket;  but  we  will  find  that  the  Mexicans  are 
more  loyal  to  their  part}"  thaii  what  the  Americans  are,  because  the 
Americans  will  scratch  and  flop  around  and  often  run  into  Populists 
and  independents.  Now,  I  have  never  seen  the  race  issue  developed 
among  the  Mexicans.  I  understand  that  it  did  once  or  twice  in  San 
Miguel  Count v,  but  my  impression  is  that  the  American  race  issued 
more  than  the  Mexicans  did.  I  have  worked  a  great  many  Mexicans 
and  a  great  many  Americans,  and  while  there  are  some  things  about 
them  that  1  do  not  like  and  I  am  a  little  bit  prejudiced — cattle  men  get 
a  little  prejudiced  against  them;  1  am  prejudiced  against  them  on 
account  of  their  cruelty  to  animal — still.  1  must  say  1  found  them  to 
be  a  very  decen.t  sort  of  people,  except  where  they  became  too  much 
contaminated  with  some  of  the  worthless  American  element  that  came 
in  along  with  the  building  of  American  railroads. 

And  fin-thei'  witness  saith  not. 

At  7  p.  m.  the  committee  resumed  its  hearings  at  the  above-named 
place. 

N.  E.  HiCKEY,  called  by  the  committee  as  a  witness,  and  tirst  having 
been  duly  sworn,  testilied  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  State  your  name.^ — A.  My  name  is  N.  E.  Hickey. 

Q.  How  long  ha^'e  you  been  out  hei'e:! — A.  Just  a  little  over  four 
years. 

Q.  Where  did  you  come  from? — A.  I  came  from  Colorado  here.  I 
was  born  in  Indiana,  moved  to  Kansas,  from  there  to  Colorado,  and 
from  Colorado  here. 

Q.  You  are  the  superintendent  of  the  schools  here? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  If  3'ou  can  make  any  statement  that  will  enlighten  the  committee 
we  will  be  pleased  to  have  you  do  so. — A.  My  statement  would  be 
along  the  line  of  school  work.  I  came  hei'e  four  years  ago,  as  I  have 
stated,  and  took  charge  of  the  city  schools  here.  At  that  time  we  had 
an  enrollment  of  about  700.  Our  school  has  increased  in  numljer  each 
year  about  150,  until  last  year  it  was  over  1,200;  that  is,  in  round 
numbers;  I  can  not  give  the  exact  numbers.  During  that  time  we 
also  increased  the  strength  of  our  course.  For  instance,  when  I  came 
here  we  had  only  eleven  years  in  the  public  schools — eight  ^^ears  below 
the  high  school  and  three  in  the  high  school.  We  have  increased  the 
strength  of  that  course  until  now"  we  have  eight  years  in  the  course 


94  NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL. 

and  four  years  in  the  lii^-h  s(^'h(K)i,s,  so  tliat  our  pupils  graduating  from 
our  high  schools  are  admitted  in  colleges  East  and  West,  and  have  i>een 
without  examination  admitted  to  the  freshman  year. 

STANDARD    OF    GEADP:    WORK    IN    THE    SCHOOLS, 

The  grade  work — 1  can  say  this,  having  taught  in  Kansas  and  Colo- 
rado— the  grade  work  is  as  strong  in  Albuquerque  as  it  was  in  the 
towns  in  which  1  taught  in  Kansas,  two  towns,  and  as  it  was  in  one 
town  in  Colorado,  towns  of  just  about  the  same  size  of  this.  I  think 
it  is  just  about  as  strong  as  the  average  school  work  East  or  West,  hav- 
ing couipared  our  work  with  the  catalogues  of  schools  East  and  West. 
Our  object  was  to  get  our  schools  up  to  the  standard  of  East  and  West, 
so  that  when  pupils  came  here  they  could  enter  our  course  without  loss 
of  time,  and  we  have  succeeded,  I  think,  in  getting  a  course  to  com- 
pare very  favorably  with  courses  East  or  West. 

Speaking  of  teachers,  we  have  since  I  have  been  connected  with  our 
school  work — we  have  been  trying  to  get  teachers  here  that  are  strong, 
and  to-day  I  was  going  over  in  my  mind,  before  1  came  up  here,  and 
there  are  26  teachers  in  the  city,  and  the  superintendent,  and  1  think 
17  are  graduates  ot  normals  and  colleges.  Some  of  these  are  graduates 
of  high  schools.  I  did  not  take  that  into  consideration,  but  of  course 
others  have  not  had  more  than  a  good  common-school  education. 

SCHOOLS    CROWDED. 

We  have  the  schools  so  crowded  that  our  school  laws  allow  us  the 
sliding  scale,  if  1  may  use  that  expression.  The  law  states  that  a 
pupil  may  enter  the  schools  at  5  years  of  age.  In  cities,  if  they  are 
crowded,  the  board  has  the  right  to  raise  that  to  7,  and  tlie  fact  is 
that  we  were  so  crowded  we  raised  it  to  6  in  order  to  keep  a  great 
many  of  the  younger  pupils  out.  Another  thing  that  I  noticed  in  the 
school  work:  We  charge  tuition  for  nonresident  pupils,  and  the  last 
two  years — last  yenv  particularly;  I  do  not  know  in  regard  to  this 
3^ear,  because  I  am  not  connected  with  the  schools  this  year — but  last 
year  we  had  a  great  many  applications  from  the  surrounding  country" 
and  the  surrounding  Mexican  towns  for  positions  and  places  in  our 
schools  for  the  Mexican  children  and  paying  tuition  for  them.  We 
had  two  or  three  cases  where  they  came  from  surrounding  counties, 
the  parents  desiring  their  children  to  learn  the  English  language,  and 
that  tendency  was  nmch  greater  during  the  last  two  years  than  during 
the  first  two  years.  1  have  taught  or  helped  in  county  institute  work 
in  this  county  and  in  Socorro  County,  two  years  in  this  count\^  and 
one  in  Socorro  County,  and  the  work  was  all  done  in  Englisli  language. 

SOME    TEACHERS   COULD   NOT   SPEAK    ENGLISH    FLUENTLY. 

It  is  true  that  some  of  the  teachers  there  could  not  speak  the  English 
language  tluently,  but  I  think  all  understood  the  work  we  did  in  Eng- 
lish, although  we  had  to  make  some  of  it  very  simple  for  them  to  get 
it,  but  on  talking  with  these  teachers  we  found  all  of  them  were  doing- 
some  work  in  English.  It  was  not  necessarily  the  Ijest  work  that  a 
teacher  could  do,  l)ut  they  were  doing  their  very  best,  and  doing  some 
work  in  the  Eno-lish  lano-uao-e.     J  visited  the  schools  when  in  Santa 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  95 

Fe,  with  Professor  Woods — 1  do  not  know  whether  he  appeared  Ijefore 
the  committee  or  not.  He  is  workino-  at  a  great  disadvantage  in  the 
way  of  school  buildings,  and  for  the  time  that  he  has  been  there  and 
the  means  in  his  hands  and  the  encouragement  that  he  has  received 
from  the  people — a  good  majoritv  of  the  people  there  are  native  peo- 
ple— he  is  doing  w^eTl.  His  grading  is  not  cpiite  as  good  as  ours,  or 
was  not  last  y«'ar.  The  teachers  of  this  Territory  have  a  so-called 
teachers'  association.  They  meet  once  a  year,  as  they  do  in  most  of 
the  States,  at  holiday  time.  We  of  course  talk  about  thc^  work  in 
different  places  and  try  to  explain  so  that  we  can  be  helpful  to  each 
other,  so  that  we  can  strengthen  the  course  and  strengthen  as  many  of 
the  teachers  as  possible,  feeling  that  there  is  where  the  work  needs  to 
be  done.  Of  course,  our  distances  are  great  here,  but  last  year  we 
had  an  attendance  at  Santa  Fe,  I  think  it  was  seventy-live,  and  we 
have  native  teachers  at  that  place,  and  on  the  whole  1  think  I  can  say 
that  the  question  of  education  is  a  live  question  with  the  people.  1 
know  it  is  with  the  city.  I  am  quite  positive  it  is  by  talking  with  the 
teachers;  that  it  is  witli  the  people  of  the  county  or  country  I  am  not. 
Now,  we  ha^'e  in.  our  corps  of  teachers  a  lady  who  taught  several 
years  among  the  native  element,  and  in  talking  with  her  she  tells  me 
that  the  Mexicans  show  a  great  desire,  at  least  in  her  work,  to  have 
their  children  learn  the  English  language. 

Q.   Who  is  she  ^— A.  Mrs.  Roberts. 

Q.  Where  does  she  live^ — A.  She  lives  here  in  the  city.  She 
teaches  Spanish  and  English  in  the  school. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  Do  the  teachers  in  the  country  here  hold  certificates? — A.  I  am 
not  positive,  but  1  think  so.  I  am  not  connected  with  the  county 
schools. 

Q.  Who  conducts  the  teachers'  institutes  that  you  hold? — A.  In 
some  cases— the  case  at  Socorro  County — the  county  superintendent 
conducts  it.  In  this  county  the  count}^  superintendent  employed  some 
one — I  have  forgotten  the  name — a  man  who  lived  up  at  Santa  Fe. 

Q.  A  practical  teacher? — A.  Yes,  sir.  And  I  would  say  that  the 
county  superintendent  of  Socorro  County  had  been  teaching  several 
3'ears  before  he  was  elected  supei-intendent  down  there. 

I\v  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  The  teachers  in  some  of  the  places  where  Ave  have  been  have  told 
us  that  the  children  of  Mexican  parents  seemed  rather  anxious;  that 
the  parents  seemed  anxious  to  have  their  children  in  school  and  have 
them  taught  English,  and  when  they  got  u])  to  the  sixth  grade  it  was 
almost  impossible  to  keep  them. — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  To  what  do  you  attriljute  that? — A.  I  think  it  is  because  they 
have  got  to  get  out  and  work  on  the  ranch  and  herd  sheep  and  goats. 
We  have  a  few,  but  man}-  of  them  have  to  do  that. 

SMALL  PER  CENT  GET  TO  HIGH  SCHOOL. 

I  think,  however,  there  is  a  small  per  cent  of  those  who  enter  the 
primary  grades  that  ever  get  to  the  high  school,  and  having  eight 
grades  "to  pass  through,  they  do  that.  There  was  a  boy  in  our  school 
17  years  old.  I  said  to  him*,  'Mohn,  you  are  going  to  continue  in  the 
high  school  and  graduate?"  and  he  said,  "Why,  I  am  17  years  old." 


96  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

1  .siiid,  "'  Well,  I  cloii't  care  if  you  are;  go  on  throuo-h  college  and  you 
will  come  out  at  23.  and  that  is  young  enough  to  begin."  He  said. 
"  Gee  whiz,  ]Mr.  Hickey,  I  have  got  to  get  out  and  hustle  before  that."' 
In  talking  with  the  native  teachers  the}'  tell  uie  that  the  Mexicans  as 
a  whole  wish  to  have  their  cliildren  learn  the  P^nglish  language  and 
are  very  anxious  for  it.  I  think  that  you  take  the  people  over  45 
they  will  never  try  to  sp;>ak  the  English,  ])ut  at  the  same  tin)e  these 
people  are  anxious  for  their  children  to  learn  the  English  language. 
And  further  witness  saith  not. 

And  here  further  hearing  of  testimony  in  the  Territory  of   New 
Mexico  was  adjourned  until  Thursday,  November  20,  1902. 


Las  Cruces,  N.  Mex.,  Xovemher  W,  1903— 1 2).  m. 
At  the  above-named  place  and  date  the  committee  resumed  the  hear- 
ing of  testimony  relative  to  the  question  of  the  admission  of  the  Ter- 
ritory of  New  Mexico  as  a  State  in  the  Union. 

Judge  Frank  W.  Parker,  called  as  a  witness  by  the  committee, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Judge,  will  you  please  state  your  name  and  age  to  the  com- 
mittee^— A.  Frank  W.  Parker,  age  42. 

Q.  How  long  have  3'ou  lived  here^ — A.  Twenty-one  j'ears. 

Q.  How  long  have  vou  been  Federal  judge  here? — A.  Since  Feb- 
ruary, 1.898. 

Q.  You  are  judge  of  both  the  district  and  Territorial  courts? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.   What  is  your  district?— A.  The  third. 

Q.  What  counties  does  that  included — A.  Grant,  Luna,  Sierra, 
Dona  Ana,  and  Otero. 

Q.  In  Grant  County  the  American  population  is  considerable? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  it  predominates. 

POPULATION    IN    DIFFERENT   COUNTIES. 

Q.  How  is  it  in  the  other  counties? — A.  In  Luna  County  the  popu- 
lation is  practically  all  American;  Deming  is  the  county  seat.  Sierra 
County  is  al)out  equally  divided.  In  Dona  Ana  County  I  should  say 
the  population  is  two-thirds  Mexican  and  one-third  American.  In 
Otei'o  County  there  is  quite  a  large  Mexican  population:  close  up  to  a 
third  at  least  of  the  population  is  Mexican. 

Q.  What  count}'  is  this? — A.  Dona  Ana. 

Q.  In  the  trial  of  causes,  have  you  a  regular  court  interpreter? — 
A.  We  have. 

Q.  The  committee  judges  from  other  testimony  already  before  it 
that  the  duties  of  the  interpreter  consist  of  interpreting  the  testimony 
of  witnesses  to  the  jury  and  to  the  court,  in  interpreting  the  arguments 
of  counsel  to  the  jury,  and  the  charges  of  the  court  to  the  jury. — A. 
That  is  correct. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  97 

Q.  And  the  interpretation  in  some  ca«es  between  the  jurors  them- 
.selves  in  the  jurj'  room? — A.  That  is  the  case  where  there  happens  to 
be  an  American  on  the  jury  who  does  not  understand  the  Mexican  hm- 
guage  or  a  Mexican  that  does  not  understand  the  English. 

KIND   OF    LITIGATION    THAT    PREDOMINATES. 

B}"  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  On  the  civil  side  of  the  docket,  Judge,  what  class  of  cases  pre- 
dominate?— A.  Why.  the  litigation  covers  a  very  broad  field;  it 
covers — almost  all  of  the  important  civil  litigation  arises  out  of  min- 
ing property.  It  extends  over  all  kinds  of  litigation.  For  instance, 
controversies  between  railroads.  I  happen  to  think  of  one  as  to  rights 
of  way,  and  matters  of  that  kind.  The  civil  litigation  since  I  have 
been  on  the  bench  has  been  much  less  important  since  I  have  been  on 
the  bench  than  it  was  before.  I  spend  the  most  of  my  time  trying 
the  criminal  business. 

Q.  What  are  the  crimes  most  frequently  charged  i! — A.  Well,  the 
most  frequent  crime  is  the  larceny  of  animals.  We  have  quite  a  num- 
ber of  homicides,  but  no  more  than  would  be  expected,  I  suppose,  in 
a  frontier  country,  as  this  is.  Those  two  crimes  are  the  most  promi- 
nent. With  the  incoming-  of  new  population,  the  building  of  rail- 
roads, etc.,  we  have  coming  in  another  kind  of  crime,  such  as  burglary 
and  larcen}"  in  dwellings,  buildings,  etc.,  which  is  not  common  among 
people  who  have  been  long  residents  here. 

CATTLE    STEALING. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  But  they  will  not  respect  the  other  man's  live  stock? — A.  No; 
there  seems  to  be  quite  an  inclination  to  seize  upon  the  other  man's 
cattle. 

Q.  Is  this  cattle  stealing  more  among  the  American  than  among  the 
Mexican  population? — A.  1  do  not  think  so. 

MEXICANS   AS  JURORS. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Do  you  think  of  any  other  statement  that  is  suggested  by  the 
questions  asked  you  that  3'^ou  would  like  to  make? — A.  Well,  it  has 
occurred  to  me  that  this  committee,  representing  the  people,  the  Con- 
gress, have  an  idea  that  Mexicans  do  not  make  good  jurors.  Now,  ray 
experience  has  led  me  to  believe  that  that  is  a  mistake.  Of  course, 
education  has  some — has  many — advantages  and  some  disadvantages. 
These  people  who  are  picked  up  as  jurors  are  not  educated  people  as  a 
rule,  but  they  have  wonderfully  good  memories.  They  remember  the 
testimony;  that  is,  they  are  not  going  to  be  what  we  sometimes  call 
"  smart  Alecks,"  and  think  they  know  more  about  what  the  law  is  than 
the  court  does.  The}^  take  the  instructions  of  the  court  and  obey  them, 
and  they  have  intelligence  enough  to  apply  the  facts  and  4-each  a  cor- 
rect determination.  Now,  I  have  gone  through  entire  terms  of  court 
right  in  this  town  at  which  the  jury  was  practically  entirely  Mexican, 

H  s  B 7 


98  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

and  tliov  hit  the  nail  on  the  head  every  single  time,  and  never  made  a 
miss.  I  want  to  say  that  for  the  Mexican  people.  I  l)elievc  that  is  all 
I  have  to  say. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Manuel  Lopez,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been  duly 
sworn  through  the  official  interpreter  of  the  committee,  testified  as 
follows,  the  questions  being  propounded  and  the  answers  thereto  given 
through  the  medium  of  the  interpreter  of  the  coumiittee: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  to  the  coumiittee  your  name,  your  age,  and  your 
business.^ — A.  My  name  is  Manuel  Lopez,  52  years  of  age,  justice  of 
the  peace. 

Q.  Are  you  a  justice  of  the  peace  in  this  town  of  Lasci'uces^ — A. 
Yes,  sir;  in  the  'rwentieth  precinct. 

Q.  In  your  docket  here  I  find  a  printed  form  of  record.  What  is 
that^ — A.  That  is  a  criminal  complaint. 

Q.  Is  this  the  form  used  in  3"our  court? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Always  in  Spanish? — A.  Yes;  well,  sometimes  in  English. 

Q.  Will  you  let  the  committee  have  this,  and  make  it  a  part  of  your 
testimony? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.   What  is  this  paper,  an  order  of  arrest? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Can  the  conunittee  have  that  as  a  part  of  your  testimony  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  one  I  hold  in  my  hand  is  American? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  I  see  it  is  in  typewriting. — A.  Yes,  sir;  they  are  mostly  type- 
written in  P^nglish. 

Q.  Can  the  committee  have  that,  also,  as  part  of  3'our  testimony? — 
A.   Yes,  sir;  I  can  read  English,  but  I  can  not  write  it. 

Q.  I  notice  that  all  of  3'our  docket  is  in  Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir;  noth- 
ing in  English. 

TERRITORIAL     STATUTES     IN     JUSTICE     OF     PEACE     OFFICE     PRINTED     IN 

SPANISH. 

Q.  The  statutes  of  the  Territory  that  yon  keep  in  your  office  are 
printed  in  Spanish,  are  the}"? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

The  blanks  and  forms  identified  by  the  witness  and  made  a  part  of 
his  testimony  V)y  him  are  attached  as  Exhibit  H. 

JosE  Gonzales,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been  duly  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  to  the  committee  your  nauie  and  age. — A.  My 
name  is  Jose  Gonzales,  and  I  am  35  3-ears  old. 

Q.  Are  3'ou  a  native  New  Mexican? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  your  business  is  what  ^— A.  I  am  editor  of  a  Spanish  paper 
in  this  town. 

Q.  What  is  3^our  circulation? — A.  I  have  900  now. 

Q.   What  is  the  name  of  3'our  paper? — A.  El  Labrador. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  99 

Samuel  A.  Steele,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  havino-  been  duly 
sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  DiLLixciiiAM: 

Q.  You  may  state  to  the  committee  your  name.— A.  Samuel  A. 
Steele. 

Q.  You  live  in  Lascruces^ — A.  Y'^es,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  living*  in  Lascruces'^ — A.  Fifteen  or 
sixteen  years. 

Q.  You  were  one  of  the  census  enumerators? — A.  Yes,  sir;  in  the 
last  census. 

Q.  And  where  was  your  district? — A.  Commencing  about  here,  and 
coming  up  to  the  northern  part  of  the  city. 

Q.  TVas  it  in  the  city  ?— A.  It  took  in  all  of  the  town  and  part  of  the 
country  outside;  3  or  -i  miles  out. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  about  the  number  of  inhabitants  that  you 
enumerated? — A.  Somewhere  in  the  neighborhood  of  3,000.  It  took 
in  all  of  this  whole  district,  running  up  as  far  as  Sampson's  Ranch, 
and  went  almost  to  the  river. 

Q.  Did  you  take  a  full  and  complete  census  of  the  people? — 
A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Y^ou  obeved  the  oath  that  you  took,  did  you? — A.  I  obeyed  the 
oath  exactly. 

ONE-THIRD   AMERICANS — TWO-THIRDS    SPANISH. 

Q.  What  was  the  relative  number  of  each  class  of  the  population; 
that  is,  of  those  that  are  called  Americans  and  of  those  called  Mexi- 
cans^— A.  Oh,  in  my  district  there  was  al)out  one-third  Americans. 
I  think  there  nuist  be  two-thirds  Spanish. 

Q.  Do  you  speak  Spanish^ — A.   Vevy  little. 

Q.  How  did  you  take  the  census!' — A.  1  had  an  interpreter  with  me 
a  part  of  the  time.  During  the  first  ten  da3's  I  was  in  town  here,  and 
during  that  time  the  Mexicans  and  I  were  able  to  get  along  without 
an  interpreter,  and  when  I  got  out  in  the  country — the  most  of  them 
there  come  in  from  Mexico — the  children,  lots  of  them,  could  speak 
English;  but  with  many  of  them  we  had  to  have  an  interpreter.  I 
found  them  all  very  intelligent  people.  They  were  all  far  ahead  in 
this  Tei-ritory. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Maj.  Eugene  Van  Patten,  called  as  a  witness,  first  having  been  duly 
sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Burnham: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  conmiittee. — A.  Eugene  Van 
Patten. 

Q.  How  lop.g  have  you  been  a  resident  here? — A.  Of  this  country 
forty-five  years,  in  the  Territorj-  of  New  Mexico;  from  Germany. 

Q.  Did  you  assist  in  taking  the  last  census? — A.  I  did,  sir. 

Q.  What  territory  did  your  district  embrace? — A.  The  third 
precinct. 

Q.  That  included  part  of  the  town  and  outlying  district? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 


100  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  How  far  out?— A.  I  went  down  below  the  colleg-e,  and  along  the 
main  street  here.  I  took  the  lower  end,  from  about  the  middle  of  the 
town,  from  the  church,  the  south  side  of  the  church,  down  below  the 
college. 

Q.  About  how  far?— A.  Well,  I  think  it  is  about  3  miles;  probably 
a  little  more  or  a  little  less. 

Q.  How  many  people  did  you  enumerate  ?— A.  I  do  not  remember;  I 
can  not  remember  how  many  1  did  enumerate. 

PRINCIPALLY   MEXICANS. 

Q.  Do  you  know  how  they  were  divided  as  between  the  Americans 
and  the  Mexicans?— A.  Yes,'  sir;  the  principal  portion  were  Mexicans. 

Q.  You  took  an  oath  to  enumerate  fully  and  accurately  ?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  comply  with  the  oath?— A.  Yes,  sir;  to  the  best  of  my 
ability. 

Q.  Do  you  speak  Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  did  not  need  an  interpreter  ?— A.  No,  sir;  I  am  an  interpre- 
ter myself;  I  am  an  interpreter  for  the  United  States  district  court  here. 

Q.  \lnd  do  you  think  you  got  the  full  number  of  the  population?— 
A.  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  And  you  made  your  returns  on  that  basis,  did  you? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

IsiDOR  Armi.jo,  called  as  a  witness,  lirst  having  been  duly  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

B}^  the  Chairman: 
Q.  You  may  state  to  the  committee  your  name,  age,  and  official 
position. — A.  My  name  is  Isidor  Armijo:  probate  clerk  and  ex  officio 
recorder  within  and  for  the  county  of  Dona  Ana,  Territory  of  New 
Mexico;  age  31.     I  was  a  census  enumerator,  too. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  And  where  was  your  census  district? — A.  My  district  was  the 
southern  precincts,  11  and  18. 

Q.  In  this  city? — A.  No,  sir;  outside  of  the  city. 
Q.  And  about  what  was  the  number  of  population  in  those  pre- 
cincts?— A.  As  near  as  1  can  remember  now,  I  believe  about  800;  750 
or  800. 

proportions  of  races. 

Q.  And  about  what  were  the  proportions  of  the  difierent  races  there  ? — 
A.   ^Vell,  the  majorit}'  native. 

Q.  By  that  you  mean  Mexican? — A.  I  mean  American  citizens,  not 
Mexicans;  born  in  the  United  States. 

Q.  Of  what  blood  were  they,  of  American  or  Mexican  descent?— A. 
Of  Spanish  extraction.  I  ani^of  Spanish  extraction  myself,  but  I  was 
born  in  the  United  States  and  I  am  an  American. 

The  Chairman.  But  you  understand  down  here,  and  the  committee 
know  that  themselves,  \hat  the  words  "  Mexican  "  and  "  American " 
down  here  are  used  as  they  are  not  used  anywhere  else  in  the  United 
States.     We  are  just  getting  at  the  racial  blood;  that  is  all. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  What  is  the  language  that  prevails  in  the  district?— A.  Well, 
both  languages;  English  and  Spanish.     The  Americans  speak  Spanish, 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  101 

nearly  all  of  them,  and  the  Mexicans,  as  you  see,  they  speak  Eng-li.sh 
a  little.  The  younger  element  speaks  it  more  than  the  older  elenjent. 
Of  the  3'ounger  element,  I  can  say  that  about  80  per  cent  of  the  rising- 
generation  speak  and  write  the  P^nglish  language. 

LANGUAGE    OF   SCHOOL   CHILDREN. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  The  committee  observed,  on  passing  the  schools  this  morning, 
that  the  children  in  the  scliool  yards  at  play  were  using  the  Spanish 
language  among  themselves  at  play.  Have  you  observed  that  also? — 
A.  Well,  I  have  not  seen  it  just  as  the}'  were  playing,  but  I  have  visited 
nearly  all  of  the  schools  of  this  county  and  I  made  addresses  to  the 
children.     They  always  spoke  in  English  when  I  addressed  them. 

Q.  Have  you  observed  them  at  play  at  recess? — A.  No,  sir;  Ihavenot. 

Q.  When  they  go  home  at  night  from  their  schools,  what  language 
do  they  use  in  their  homes  between  themselves  and  their  parents? — 
A.  Well,  it  depends  a  great  deal.  The  progressive  people  here  will 
insist  upon  them  speaking  English,  and  they  all  speak  English  when 
3"ou  address  them  in  English. 

Q.  Well,  when  they  go  home  at  night  from  their  schools,  what  lan- 
guage do  they  use  in  their  own  homes  between  themselves  and  their 
parents? — A.  It  would  be  difficult  to  say  wdiether  they  spoke  Spanish 
or  English  at  any  particular  time;  they  use  both  languages. 

DEEDS  RECORDED  IN  LANGUAGE  IN  WHICH  THEY  ARE  MADE  OUT. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  I  see  part  of  this  record  which  you  have  brought  before  the  com- 
mittee is  in  English  and  part  of  it  is  in  Spanish. — A.  No,  sir;  the  deeds 
are  recorded  in  the  original  language  that  they  are  sent  in  in.  If  we 
have  a  deed  sent  in  in  French,  it  will  be  recorded  in  French.  There 
are  some  deeds  written  in  1853,  and  they  are  not  yet  recorded. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Now,  here  is  one  on  page  141.    What  is  that? — A.  That  is  a  bond. 
Q.   What  is  the  date  of  that?     That  is  1901,  is  it  not?— A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.  What  language  is  that  in? — A.  It  is  in  Spanish. 
Q.  And  this  gentleman  signs  by  his  mark  ? — A.  One  of  them;  yes,  sir. 
Q.  This  record  here  is  a  mortgage-deed  record^— A.  Yes,  sir. 
Q.  And  what  record  is  this  [indicating  another  record]? — A.  That 
is  the  mining  deeds  of  the  same  county. 

farming  by  irrigation. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  here  ? — A.  I  have  lived  here  all  my  life. 

Q.  Are  3"ou  acquainted  with  the  countiy  districts  around  here? — 
A.  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  What  is  the  occupation  of  the  people? — A.  Farming,  cattle  rais- 
ing and  sheep  raising,  and  mining. 

Q.  Farming  is  conducted  by  means  of  irrigation? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is,  only  in  the  neighborhood  of  the  river? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
Some  of  them  are  putting  pumps  now  in  the  vallev,  and  securing  water 
for  irrigation  in  that  way.  As  long  as  these  streams  prove  to  be  what 
they  expect  them  to  be,  there  will  be  hundreds  of  pumps  put  on  the 
farms  in  the  valley. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 


102  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

F.  D.  Hunt,  called  as  a  witness  and,  tirst  having  been  duly  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman:  , 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Mv  name  is 
F.  D.  Hunt. 

Q.  And  how  old  are  you,  Mr,  Hunt^ — A.  I  am  27  years  old. 

Q.  How  lono-  have  you  lived  here  at  Las  Crucesi! — A.  One  year. 

Q.   Where  did  you  come  herefrom? — A.  From  southern  California, 

Q.  You  are  the  editor  of  the  American  paper  here? — A,  Yes,  sir. 

Q,  What  is  the  name  of  it? — A.  The  Las  Cruces  Progress. 

Q.  What  is  your  circulation  ? — A.  It  is  about  300, 

NEWSPAPERS    IN    LAS   CRUCES. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q,  How  many  papers  are  there  here? — A.  Five  published  here, 

Q,  What  are  the  names  of  them? — A.  The  Las  Cruces  Progress, 
my  paper;  The  Rio  Grande  Republican;  they  are  entirely  American; 
The  Las  Cruces  Citizen,  half  English  and  half  Spanish,  and  El  Tiempo, 
Spanish,  and  El  Labrador,  Spanish. 

Q,  Can  you  give  the  circulation  of  each  of  them? — A.  No,  sir;  I 
can  not. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Marcel  Valdez,  called  as  a  witness  and.  lirst  having  been  duly 
sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

B}^  the  Chairman: 

Q,  You  may  state  3'our  name  to  the  committee. — A,  My  name  is 
Marcel  Valdez, 

Q.  And  your  age? — A.  Fifty-three." 

Q,  Are  you  a  native  New  Mexican  ? — A.   No,  sir, 

Q.  Where  were  you  born  ? — A,  J  was  born  in  the  State  of  Chihuahua. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  here? — A,  About  thirty-two  or  thirty- 
three  years. 

Q.   What  is  your  business? — A,  Editor  of  a  paper, 

Q.   What  is  the  name  of  it? — A.  El  Tiempo,  sir;  21  years  old. 

Q.  [Holding  up  a  newspaper.]  Is  this  the  paper? — A,  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  It  is  published  in  Spanish? — A.   Yes,  sir, 

Q,  What  is  the  circulation  of  your  paper? — A,  About  nine  hundred. 

Q.  I  see  printed  here,  among  other  things,  the  official  vote  of  Donna 
Ana  County;  that  is  in  Spanish,  too? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Francis  E,  Lester,  called  as  a  witness,  and,  having  duly  affirmed 
to  testify  to  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth 
relating  to  the  matters  and  things  in  hearing  before  the  committee, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee, — A.  My  name  is 
Francis  E,  Lester, 

Q.  And  your  age  is  what? — A,  M}'  age  is  32, 

Q.  And  what  is  your  business? — A,  Registrar  of  the  college,  and  in 
charge  of  the  work  in  English-Spanish  stenography, 

Q,  How  long  have  you  lived  down  here? — A,  Twelve  years. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  103 

ENGLISH-SPANISH    STENOGRAPHY. 

Q.  Do  you  teach  Euolish-Spanish  stenog-raphy  at  the  college'^ — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  many  .students  have  you  taking  stenography? — A.  We  have 
now  18. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Allen  J.  Papen,  called  as  a  witness,  and,  lirst  having  been  duly 
sworn,  testitied  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
Allen  J.  Papen. 

Q.   How  old  are  you  I — A.  1  am  32. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  here? — A.  Twenty-two  years  in  New 
Mexico;  nine  years  in  Las  Cruces. 

Q.  The  committee  ol)serves  that  this  is  a  heavily  Mexican  country, 
so  called? — A.  It  is  a  majority  Mexicans;  yes,  sir. 

circulation  of  newspapers. 

Q.  What  is  the  proportion  of  Spanish  and  American  newspapers 
going  through  your  office — you  are  the  postmaster  here? — _A.  Yes,  sir; 
T  am  the  postniaster.  There  ai'e  two  English,  two  Spanish,  and  one 
half  Spanish  and  half  English. 

Q.  What  is  the  proportion  in  which  they  go  through  your  office? — 
A.  I  think  they  are  about  equally  divided;  I  do  not  know  that  there 
is  very  much  difference  in  pound  weight. 

Q.  "Have  you  examined  that  question? — A.  No,  sir;  I  have  not.  I 
am  the  editor  of  one  of  the  newspapers  here  myself. 

Q.  What  is  your  paper? — A.  The  Republican. 

Q.   What  is  your  circulation?  -A.  My  circulation  is  650. 
By  Senator  Dillingham: 

LANGUAGE  OF  COUNTRY  PEOPLE. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  postmaster? — A.  About  five  months. 

Q.  Do  you  speak  Spanish? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  people  who  come  to  your  office,  j^ou  can  sj^eak  to  them  in 
English  or  Spanish  either? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  people  come  to  your  office  from  the  countr}^  districts? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  for  four  or  live  or  six  miles. 

Q.  The  people  from  the  country  districts  speak  what  language  when 
they  come  for  their  mail? — A.   Why,  usually  Spanish. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Elias  E.  Day,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been  duly  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  mav  state  vour  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Mv  name  is 
Elias  E.  Day."^ 

Q.  And  your  age  and  occupation? — A.  Age,  39;  occupation,  mer- 
chant; also,  superintendejit  of  schools  of  Donna  Ana  County. 

Q.  When  were  you  elected? — A.  In  November,  two  years  ago. 

Q.  How  many  schools  have  you  in  the  county? — A.  Nineteen  dis- 
tricts, 20  schools. 


lUi  NEW    STATEHOOD    KILL. 

Q.   HoAv  inaiiy  schools  in  this  town'^ — A.  Two  schools. 

Q.  The  rest  arc  out  in  the  country  districts? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.   Have  you  a  list  of  the  teachers? — A.  No;  1  have  not. 

Q.  Can  you  give  them,  hurriedly? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  so.  M.  A. 
Molina.  Mrs.  L.  C.  Woodson,  Mrs.  L.  L.  Brown,  Miss  Lottie  Sweet, 
Miss  Nora  Newberry,  Miss  Lillie  Costales,  Mrs.  J.  C.  Chaves,  Mr. 
Adrian  Conzales,  Miss  Sophia  Gilchrist,  Miss  Eulalie  Ogoz,  Miss  Eliz- 
abeth Foster. 

Q.  Are  those  the  teachers  in  town,  now? — A.  No,  sir,  1  am  going 
around  over  the  country;  there  are  only  four  or  live  teachers  here. 
Sister  Mary  of  Mercy,  at  the  Mesilla  school;  Miss  Alma  Sweet,  Mrs. 
Sarah  Edwards,  Mrs.  Lily  Robinson,  Miss  Blanche  Bailey,  Miss 
Vivette  Davis.     1  think  that  is  all  I  remember. 

ENUMERATION    OF   PUPILS. 

Q.  How  many  pupils  are  there  in  town  here?^ — A.  Do  you  mean  the 
enumeration  ? 

Q.  No,  sir;  actually  in  school. — il.  lean  not  tell  you  exactly;! 
think  in  the  neighborhood  of  350  in  the  town,  now  in  the  public 
schools. 

Q.  How  many  in  the  county  in  the  public  schools  ( — A.  In  the  whole 
county,  something  like  1,650. 

Q.  In  the  lower  branches  both  Spanish  and  English  are  taught  up  to 
the  second  reader,  are  they  ? — A.  In  some  of  the  schools. 

And  further  witness  saith  not. 

Martinez  Amador  voluntarily  appeared  as  a  witness,  and  tii'st  hav- 
ing been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Martinez  Ama- 
dor is  my  name. 

Q.  Where  do  you  live? — A.  I  live  here  in  Las  Cruces. 

Q.  Are  you  a  "native  of  this  Territory  ?— A.  No,  sir;  I  am  a  native 
of  the  Republic  of  Mexico. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  here? — A.  Well,  I  am  64  years  old;  I 
come  here  when  I  was  9  years  old. 

Q.  Where  do  you  live;  in  this  county^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  vou  a  farmer? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Your  farm  is  near  what  water  stream  ^— A.  Near  the  Rio  Grande. 

Q.  Do  you  farm  by  irrigation? — A.  By  irrigation  entirely. 

SUFFER   FROM    WANT    OF   WATER. 

Q.  Is  your  farm  all  watered  regularly?— A.  No,  sir;  we  have  been 
suffering'  a  great  deal  for  water.  Since  the  railroad  came  here  there 
is  so  nuich  population  above,  it  cuts  all  our  water  here.  We  have  been 
suti'ering,  and  we  lose  our  farms,  and  we  lose  a  good  many  thousand 
dollars  on  that  account.  I  have  a  good  deal  of  a  farm  here  myself.  I 
got  here  300  acres  of  land  and  I  can  not  raise  nothing  on  account  of 
water.     I  lose  my  orchard,  and  lose  nearh^  the  whole  thing. 

Q.  How  far  do  you  live  from  town? — A.  I  live  here  in  this  city. 
That  place  where  you  eaten  your  dinner  to-day,  that  is  my  residence, 
right  on  this  side. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BTLL.  105 

CAN    NOT    DEPEND    ON    RAIN. 

Q,  The  committee  understands  that  farmino-  can  not  be  done  away 
from  the  streams  i' — A.  Well,  in  this  country  it  is  very  dry.  They 
won't  raise  nothing  if  there  is  no  water  from  the  river,  you  know:  we 
can  not  depend  on  rains  at  all;  it  don't  rain  here  enough. 

Q.  And  the  committee  understands  from  other  witnesses  that  stock 
raising  i.s  possible  5  miles  from  the  water  hole  or  water  stream;  is  that 
correct? — A.  Yes,  sir.  Well,  they  all  get  the  water  up  there  in  the 
mountains  in  the  springs,  but  it  ain't  been  enough  water  to  water  a 
big  stock  of  cattle. 

NATIVES  NOT  READY  FOR  STATEHOOD. 

Q.  Is  there  any  statement  which  you  want  to  make  to  the  com- 
mittee?— A.  Well,  I  want,  if  you  will  allow^  me,  to  make  a  statement 
about  our  population.  My  people  all  belong  to  the  Mexican  race. 
The}"  come  from  old  Mexico,  and  I  think  our  people  is  not  able  now 
to  support  statehood,  because  most  of  the  people  here  is  ignorant;  and 
I  do  not  think  we  are  ready  to  support  statehood  yet  for  about  ten 
years,  until  our  children  grow  up.  We  got  good  schools  now,  and 
we  send  our  children  to  school,  and  they  doing  well;  but  the  old  resi- 
dents are  mosth"  Mexicans,  you  know.  You  take  them  in  the  election 
time,  and  you  take  thein  what  you  call  the  emblem;  the}"  go  b}"  that, 
and  they  do  not  know  who  they  vote  for.  The}^  do  not  know  who  is 
on  the  ticket — the  majority  of  that  kind  of  people.  As  a  consequence^ 
I  think  there  is  one  great  fault  of  our  people — they  have  not  got 
education,  the  old  timers;  the  old  timers,  like  me.  1  never  been  in 
the  schools,  except  the  primary  schools,  you  know,  but  1  been  picking 
up  here  and  there  to  know  just  the  little  I  know  now,  and  that  is 
about  all;  l)ut  1  never  l)een  in  the  schools.  My  children  are  all  well 
educated.  They  have  Ijeen  to  school  in  St.  Louis  and  they  have  been 
in  the  schools  here.  My  children,  they  are  able  to  support  statehood 
and  compete  with  the  majority  as  far  as  people,  3'ou  know,  but  the 
others.  1  am  ver}-  sorry  to  say  it,  they  are  not  able  to  do  that. 

The  remainder  of  the  questions  propounded  to  the  witness,  and  the 
answers  thereto,  were  made  through  the  medium  of  the  official  inter- 
preter of  the  committee. 

'•MANY   DO    NOT   KNOW   WHAT   STATEHOOD   IS." 

Q.  What  is  the  feeling  of  the  people,  the  native  Mexicans  out  in  the 
country,  like  yourself,  about  this  subject? — A.  There  are  a  good  man}" 
that  do  not  know  what  statehood  is.  They  do  not  know  the  difference 
between  a  State  and  a  Territory.  The  greater  part  of  them  do  not 
know  how  to  write  or  read. 

Q.  You  live  out  in  the  country;  now  in  the  campaigns  are  there 
speeches  made  out  there  to  j^our  people? — A.  Yes;  they  have  some 
speeches,  but  it  is  always  in  Spanish  when  they  have  campaign  speeches. 
Sometimes  they  speak  in  English,  and  then  they  have  an  interpreter 
to  interpret  it  to  them. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 


106  NEW  statp:h<)od  bill. 

John  J.  Vkknon,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been  duly 
sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

B}'  the  Chairmak: 

Q.  You  may  state  to  the  connnittee  your  name,  3^our  age,  and  your 
occupation. — A.  My  name  is  John  J.  Vernon;  33  years  old;  professor 
of  agriculture  in  the  New  Mexico  Agricultural  CoUeg-e. 

Q.  You  have  a  well  running  out  there? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  the  purpose  of  sinking  an  artesian  well  when  you  are 
so  near  the  Rio  Grande? — A.  It  is  not  an  artesian  well;  the  purpose 
is  to  supplement  the  river  when  it  dries. 

RIVER   DRIES    UP. 

Q.  Does  the  river  dry  up? — A.  It  does. 

Q.  How  many  of  tliose  wells  are  there? — A.  1  know  of  four  in  this 
vicinity. 

Q.  Are  they  all  running  like  yours? — A.  There  are  none  of  them 
pumping  as  much  water  as  ours. 

Q.  Have  you  reported  it  to  the  Department  of  Agriculture? — A. 
No,  sir. 

Q.  Wliat  time  in  the  year  does  the  rivei-  dry  ?— A.  It  generally  dries 
in  the  middle  or  hitter  part  of  June,  and  then  w^e  may  have  a  short 
drought  or  a  long  one. 

FLOW   OF    RIVER   DEPENDS   ON    RAIN    AND    SNOW    FALL, 

Q.  The  committee  understands  that  the  fiow  of  the  river  depends 
upon  the  rainfall  or  snowfall  in  the  mountains? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is 
right. 

Q.  And  there  are  ^^ears  when  the  insuthciency  of  that  rain  and  snow 
fall  makes  the  river  go  dry?— A.  Yes,  sir.  There  are  years  when  the 
river  does  not  go  dry. 

Q.  In  those  years  the  irrigation  can  be  conducted? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  This  well  out  here  is  what  is  called  an  experiment? — A.  It  is; 
yes,  sir. 

SPANISH    AND   ENGLISH    TAUGHT. 

Q.  The  committee  noticed  down  there  in  the  bulletins  put  up  at  the 

college — bulletins  of  examination — that  examinations  were  made  in 

English  and  examinations  in  Spanish.     You  teach  Spanish  out  there, 

as  well  as  English,  do  you? — A.  Yes,  sir;  we  have  a  course  in  Spanish. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  How  deep  is  that  well?— A.  Forty-eight  feet  from  the  surface 
of  the  ground. 

Q.  How  large  a  pipe  did  vou  sink? — A.  A  6-inch  pipe. 

Q.  What  did  you  find  at  the  depth  of  48  feet?— A.  After  al)out 
7  feet  of  soil  it  is  a  sand  until  we  strike  the  gravel  and  sand  stratum, 
and  that  is  12  feet  thick;  and  we  have  a  12-foot  perforated  strainer. 
It  is  not  the  ordinary  strainer;  it  is  an  open  hole  a  quarter  of  an  inch 
wide  and  an  inch  and  a  half  long,  and  it  lets  all  the  sand  in  and  leaves 
the  gravel  out. 

By  the  Chairivian: 
Q.  How  many  students  have  you? — A.  About  200. 
Q.  How  many  in  attendance  now? — A.  About  200  now. 


NEW    STATEH()()D    BILL.  107 

ONE    THOUSAND   (GALLONS   A    MINUTK. 

By  Senator  Heitfelu: 

Q.  Wiisit  is  the  capacit^^  of  your  pumps?— A.  We  have  tested  a 
number  of  pumps:  a  thousand  gallons  per  minute  is  our  capacity. 

Q.  Is  tiie  supply  of  water  sufficient  for  that?— A.  I  believe  it  is. 
We  have  pumped  thirty  hours,  and  the  vacuum  gauge  showed  the 
same  as  at  the  beginning. 

Q.  How  much  will  that  supply?— A.  We  believe  that  we  can  cover 
from  this  well  loC  acres,  without  the  use  of  the  river. 

Q.  Is  that  a  sort  of  a  subterranean  stream?— A.  I  think  it  is  in  the 
sand  and  gravel  altogether. 

DRY    SEASON    AFFECTS   THE    WELL. 

Q.  Have  you  any  idea  of  whether  a  dry  season  would  affect  the  well 
materially?— A.  Yes,  sir;  it  makes  a  difference.  When  the  river  is 
running  and  when  it  is  not  it  makes  a  difference  of  nearly  2  feet. 
When  the  water  was  in  the  river  the  water  stood  within  6  inches  of 
the  pipe  that  you  saw.  and  now  it  stands  within  about  2  feet  of  it. 

Q.  Have  yoii  experienced  any  great  droughts  since  you  sank  that 
-^ell? — A.  It  was  sunk  this  year,  and  this  is  considered  a  dry  year. 
Last  year  we  had  no  drought. 

By  the  Chairtvian: 
Q.  What  is  the  largest  crop  you  raise  here? — A.  Alfalfa. 
And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Martin  Lohman,  first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

Bv  the  Chairman: 
Q.  You  may  state  to  the  committee  your  name,  your  age,  and  what 
your  businesses. — A.  My  name  is  Martin  Lohman;  my  age  is  48;  busi- 
ness  almost   everything- — general  merchandising,  tiouring   mill,  and 
cattle. 

Q.  You  getyour  wheat  for  your  mill  from  what  section? — A.  Right 
here. 

(tREAt  advancement. 

Q.   How  long  have  you  been  here? — A.  Twenty-six  years. 

Q.  The  committee  would  be  glad  to  hear  any  statement  that  you 
have  to  make  concerning  affairs  here. — A.  I  do  not  know  exactly  on 
what  lines  you  want  my  statement.  During  the  time  I  have  been  here 
there  has  been  great  ad\ancement.  There  was  no  school  here  when  I 
came  here  except  the  Catholic  convent.  To-day  there  is  T<»0  scholars 
right  in  this  town.  The  schools  have  advanced  a  great  deal.  We  have 
done  it  ourselves  without  any  aid  from  the  National  Government.  I 
venture  to  say  that  the  Government  has  done  more  for  the  Porto  Kicans 
in  the  last  two  years  than  they  have  for  the  New  Mexicans  in  the  past 
fifty  years.  I  "believe  our  people  are  as  law  abiding  as  they  are  any 
place. 

Q.  What  is  the  extent  of  your  business?— A.  Probably  $150,000  a 
3"ear. 

Q.  Do  you  sell  to  people  who  live  around  in  the  country  here  ( — A. 
Ri^ht  here  in  this  vicinity. 

Q.  How  many  clerks  have  you? — A.  I  have  seven  in  the  store. 


108  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  Do  they  s])Oiik  both  Spiinish  and  English? — A.  All  of  them  but 
one. 

Q,   And  ho  speaks  what? — A.   Onl}^  Spanish. 

Q.  Do  YOU  speak  Spanish  also? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Among-  the  customers  who  come  into  your  store  what  proportion 
of  the  lang-uage  i,s  used? — A,  Well,  this  is  a  Mexican  country.  I 
should  judge  two-thirds. 

Q.  Are  you  familiar  with  the  family  life  of  the  people  here? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  conmiittee  observed  to-day  in  driving  past  the  schools  that 
the  children  at  play  in  the  schoolyards  were  using  the  Spanish  lan- 
guage. What  is  the  language  used  by  the  people  in  their  own  homes 
when  the  children  go  home  at  night? — A.  Well,  3"0u  might  say  the 
Mexicans  would  use  the  Spanish  language  and  the  Americans  the 
English.  It  is  a  surprise  even  to  me  the  amount  of  English  used  bj' 
the  Mexicans  here. 

AGRICULTURE    DP^PENDS    ON    IRRIGATION. 

Q.  With  reference  to  your  business  people  here,  this  is  an  agricul- 
tural, stock-raising,  and  mining  county,  the  committee  understands? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  but  agricultural  principally. 

Q.  That  depends  upon  the  irrigation?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

WHEN   THE    RIO    GRANDE    RUNS    DRY. 

Q.  What  season  of  the  year  does  the  Rio  (Irande  run  dry  ? — A.  Well, 
it  generally  runs  dry  about  July,  I  believe. 

Q.  The  committee  was  told  by  one  of  the  witnesses  that  it  went  diy 
in  June. — A.  Well,  that  may  be.     I  am  not  much  of  a  farmer. 

Q.  The  agriculture  depends  entirely  upon  irrigation,  does  it  not? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  entirely. 

Q.  Not  upon  rainfall? — A.  Yes,  sir;  although  there  has  never  been 
a  failure  of  our  wheat  crop  on  account  of  the  shortage  of  water  in  all 
of  the  twentj^-six  years  1  have  been  here. 

A(iRICULTURE    SUPPORTS    COMMUNITY. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  What  supports  this  city  or  village?  What  are  the  industries  that 
go  to  support  this  comnumit}"? — A.  Agriculture  principally.  There 
are  four  or  five  smaller  towns  above  and  four  or  hve  below  that  sup- 
port this  town.  We  have  raised  last  year,  I  should  think,  20,000 
tons  of  alfalfa. 

Q.  That  is  the  chief  agricultural  product? — A.  Yes,  sir;  valued  at 
$10  a  ton. 

Q.  It  is  feed  for  live  stock,  is  it  not? — A.  Yes  sir. 

Q.  Alfalfa  is  the  most  easily  raised  crop,  is  it  not^ — A.  Yes,  sir; 
and  three  or  four  to  five  cuttings. 

Q.  The  committee  understands  that  there  may  be  a  number  of  cut- 
tings for  each  year  and  not  exhaust  the  land? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Now%  the  committee  would  be  pleased  to  have  3'^ou  make  anj'' 
statement  that  you  would  like  to  make. — A.   Well,  J  am  heartily  in 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  109 

favor  of  statehood,  and  I  think  that  95  per  cent  of  our  people  here 
are — Mexicans  and  Americans  alike. 

And  further  the  Avitness  saith  not. 

And  here,  at  the  hour  of  3  oV-lock  p.  ni.,  the  further  hearing  of  testi- 
mony was  adjourned  to  ])e  resumed  at  El  Paso,  Tex. 


Sheldon  Hotel, 

/;/  ]*<ixo^  Te.r.,  Tliur^daij,  XoveinhevW.  190^—7 p.  m. 
The  committee  resumed  the  hearing  of  testimony  upon  the  question 
of  the  admission  of  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico  to  statehood  at  the 
above-named  place  and  date. 

Judge  Daniel  H.  McMillan,  called  as  a  witness,  testified  as  follows: 
B}'  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  Please  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Daniel  H. 
McMillan. 

Q.   What  is  your  districts — A.  The  fifth  judicial  district. 

Q.  And  that  covers  what  counties^ — A.  That  covers  Lincoln, 
Socorro,  Chaves,  and  Eddy  counties,  and  extends  clear  across  the  Ter- 
ritory from  east  to  west.  '  About  the  northerly  line  of  my  district  is 
about  the  center  of  the  Territory,  and  then  it  extends  easterly  to  the 
Texas  line  and  on  the  south  to  the  Texas  line. 

Q.  And  how  long  have  you  had  this  district? — A.  Two  years  the 
2-ith  of  December. 

Q.  I  assume  that  you  have  held  court  in  all  the  counties? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  twice  a  year  in  all  of  the  counties  except  two,  where  they  ran 
short  of  fun(is.  I  will  have  no  Territorial  court  in  Socorro  County 
this  fall. 

racial  characteristics. 

Q.  I  wish  you  would  tell  us  about  the  character  of  the  population; 
give  the  racial  characteristics. — A.  Well,  take  Eddy  County;  that  is 
the  southerly  county — in  the  Pecos  Valley — that  is  substantially  all 
American.  A  very  small  percentage — I  would  say  not  exceeding  15  per 
cent — of  that  county  would  be  regarded  as  Mexican.  That  county  is 
filled  up  largely  by  "people  who  have  come  from  the  South  Missouri, 
Kansas,  Arkansas,  and  Texas,  into  that  valley. 

industries  of  the  people. 

Q.  And  what  are  the  industries  of  the  people  in  that  county? — 
A.  In  the  southern  part  of  it  largely  grazing.  There  is  a  good  deal 
of  sagebrush  and  sand  in  the  southern  part  of  it.  In  the  north  part 
of  it  they  have  got  a  very  fine  system  of  irrigation.  They  have 
impounded  the  Pecos  River  at  Carlsbad. 

Q.  What  part  of  the  county,  taking  it  as  a  whole,  is  under  irriga- 
tion?— A.  Well,  it  would  be  difficult  for  me  to  make  an  estimate  about 
that;  I  have  onl}^  observed  it  as  I  have  come  through  on  the  train.  It 
would  be  a  mere  guess.  I  would  say  not  to  exceed — I  would  not  want 
to  put  it  above  10  per  cent,  and  I  do  not  know  but  what  that  is  too 
high. 


110  NEW    STATEHOOD    IJILL. 

Q.  And  the  Inihmce  is  given  up  to  gvnzmgi — A.  Yes,  sir.  Oh, 
there  can  not  he  10  per  cent  under  irrigation;  1  do  not  think  I  would, 
have  it  too  high  at  5  per  cent. 

IRRIGATION. 

By  the  C'hairman: 
Q.  I  call  your  attention  to  the  fact  that  over  in  the  district  surround- 
ing Ph  jenix  that  one  of  their  canals  alone  is  50  miles  in  length,  and 
only  about  185, (JOO  acres  at  the  outside,  at  the  highest  count,  is  under 
actual  irrigation,  A  great  deal  more  than  that  is  under  canals,  l)ut  no 
water. — A.  Well,  they  have  unlimited  water  there.  It  is  limited  some 
by  the  area  that  they  can  reach  by  the  ditch.  But  I  never  have  driven 
out  through  the  Carlsbad  system  be^^ond  1-2  or  14  miles.  That  is  as 
far  as  I  have  ever  driven. 

By  Senator  Dillingha^i: 

Q.  They  can  not  reach  it  on  account  of  the -graded — A.  Yes,  sir; 
and  the  soil  in  some  places  is  so  thoroughly  impregnated  with  alkali 
that  they  can  not  use  it. 

Q.  Well,  take  the  next  county. — A.  Chaves  is  the  next  county;  a 
large,  thrifty  count}"  and  they  have  250  wells,  perhaps,  in  that 
vicinity;  and  they  have  what  is  known  as  the  north  and  south  springs, 
and  that  irrigates  a  large  territory  about  Roswell,  probabl}'  12  or  15 
miles  around  the  town. 

Q.  Well,  taking  the  whole  county  together,  what  percentage  of  it? — 
A.  Well,  that  is  a  large  county,  and  I  would  not  think  to  exceed,  per- 
haps, 3  per  cent  of  that  county. 

Q.  And  what  about  the  population^ — A.  Well,  that  count3%  this 
town  of  Roswell,  is  a  good,  thrift v  town  of  8,000  or  1,000  people, 
and  that  is  a  thoroughgoing  American  town.  In  all  of  the  courts  that 
I  have  held  in  these  counties  I  have  never  had  a  Mexican  on  the  jury. 

Q.  Outside  of  the  small  section  irrigated  the  Territory  is  given  up  to 
herding? — A.  Yes,  sir;  almost  entirely,  either  to  cattle  or  sheep. 

VERT   FEW   JURORS   UNDERSTAND   ENGLISH. 

Q.  Take  the  other  counties.  What  is  the  proportion  of  American 
and  Mexican  population  in  Chaves  County^ — A.  I  do  not  know  what 
the  census  shows;  it  is  only  what  I  see  about  my  courts  and  about  the 
town.  The  percentage  is  veiy,  ver}'  small  there;  very  small  indeed; 
as  far  as  1  have  been  able  to  o>)serve,  scarceh'  noticeable.  Lincoln 
County  is  almost  entirely  a  grazing  and  mining  county,  and  is  largely 
a  Mexican  county.  The  Mexican  element  predominates  there.  My 
juries  in  Lincoln  County  will  run  aV)out  from — well,  I  do  not  think  I 
ever  have  less  than  eight  out  of  twelve  that  are  *"  Mexicans,"  and  so7ue- 
times  more  than  that. 

Q.  In  that  county  you  have  an  interpreter? — A.  Yes.  sir;  all  the 
work  is  done  through  an  interpreter.  The  juries  in  that  county — very 
few  of  the  Mexican  jurors  understand  the  English  language  at  all.  and 
all  the  work  is  done  through  the  interpreter;  the  taking  of  testimony, 
the  charging  of  the  court,  and  the  sununing  up  of  counsel. 


NEW    STATEHOOD     HILL.  Ill 

Q.  When  the  juiy  take  the  ease  for  consideration  does  it  become 
necessary  to  have  an  interpreter  in  the  jury  room? — A.  Ver}^  fre- 
quently, yes,  sir.  The  interpreter,  the  clerk,  the  stenoo-rapher.  and 
the  marshal  are  all  sworn,  and  they  all  go  around  with  me  in  all  of 
the  courts. 

SOCORRO    COUNTY. 

Q.  Well,  you  may  pass  on  to  the  next  county. — A.  Socorro  is  ver}" 
much  the  same  as  Lincoln  County.  It  has  between  nine  and  ten  mil- 
lions of  acres.  It  is  about  one-third  of  the  size  of  New  York  State. 
It  extends  east  and  west  175  miles,  and  north  and  south  50  or  60  miles. 
It  is  almost  given  up  to  sheep  raising.  The  American  Valley  has  a 
valley  there  of  more  than  a  million  acres,  and  they  have  cattle  in  there. 
In  Lincoln  County  their  grazing  is  owned  by  four  large  cattle  com- 
panies, chieliy  the  Block  Ranch  and  three  others.  The  Block  Ranch 
own  a  territorv  that  is  probablv  4<»  l)v  6()  miles.  Thev  run  i)erhaps 
30,000  head  ofcattle. 

Q.  In  the  county  last  named,  what  about  the  population  there? — 
A.  The  ratio? 

.MEXICAN    ELEMENT    PREDOMINATES. 

Q.  Yes,  sir;  the  ratio. — A.  Oh.  the  Mexican  element  very  largely 
predominates.     The  ratio  on  juries  is  about  the  same  as  in  Lincoln. 

Q.  And  there  is  the  same  need  of  an  interpreter  i — A.  Yes,  sir.  In 
cases,  however,  not  before  the  court  they  are  held  in  ])usiness  to  be 
tried  before  a  jury. 

Q.  And  you  iind  very  few  of  that  class  that  understand  the  English 
language? — A.  Very  few  of  those  that  are  of  mature  years  who  can 
sit  on  a  juiy.  Once  in  a  while  yon  can  tind  a  l)right,  capable  man 
among  them  that  understands  the  English  very  well;  but  even  then 
they  prefer  to  have  an  interpreter,  l)ecause  the}'  think  and  act  from  a 
Latin  standpoint  entirely. 

HOLD    STRICTLY    TO   THEIR   LANGUAGE. 

They  have  been  educated  and  taught  in  that  manner,  and  they  hold 
very  strictly  to  their  language.  There  have  been  very  little  educa- 
tional advantages.  The  Federal  Government  has  done  comparatively 
nothing  for  the  people  of  this  Territory  in  their  schools,  and  they  have 
put  no  limitation  upon  them  as  to  the  right  to  hold  office  or  serve  on 
juries;  and  that  can  not  be  done  by  the  Federal  (xoxernment  now. 
There  was  a  little  attempt  to  have  that  apply  to  the  Federal  jurorr3. 

PROTEST    AGAINST    KNOWLED(}E    OF    EXGLISH    AS    A     REQUIREMENT    FOR 
JURORS   IN    UNITED    STATES   COURTS. 

The  bar,  it  seemed,  here  took  up  that  matter,  and  through  the  influ- 
ence of  their  leaders  they  passed  a  resolution  and  sent  it  to  Congress 
protesting  against  the  requirement  of  the  Englisli  language  as  a  quali- 
fication for  jurors  in  the  United  States  courts. 


112  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  What  about  the  schools  in  thase  counties '^— A.  Well,  that  I  am 
not  very  well  posted  on;  it  is  only  in  the  most  general  way.  This 
term  of  court  at  Lincoln  the  teacher  boarded  at  the  same  hotel  where 
I  was,  and  sat  at  the  same  table,  and  I  talked  with  her  quite  a  little. 
She  has  about  00  scholars;  she  told  me  that  very  few^  of  them  could 
speak  the  English  language. 

PUPILS    SPEAK    SPANISH    IX    VACATION. 

They  will  learn  a  little  through  the  school  year,  and  through  the 
vacation  they  intermingle  among  themselves,  and  they  speak  the 
Spanish  language;  and  their  people  hold  to  it. 

Q.  Have  you  spoken  of  all  the  counties  in  your  district  t — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

CRIMINAL    CASES. 

Q.  What  is  the  general  class  or  classes  of  litigation  that  come  into 
your  courts  :< — A.  On  the  criminal  side  of  the  docket,  probably  50  per 
cent  of  the  criminal  cases  are  the  larceny  of  stock,  cattle,  horses,  sheep, 
mules,  and  goats.  For  all  of  which  the  penalty  is  very  heavy.  The 
punishment  is  up  to  what  would  be  equivalent  to  about  fifteen  years; 
that  is,  a  line  of  $.5,000  and  imprisonment  in  the  penitentiary  for  five 
years,  and  the  minimum  is  one  year  in  the  penitentiary  and  |500  fine, 
which  is  equivalent  to  about  five  years  and  a  half. 

THE    CARRYING    OF    DEADLY   W^EAPONS. 

■Q.  What  crime  comes  next? — A.  The  carrying  of  deadly  weapons. 
That  is  a  misdemeanor  here,  and  there  are  quite  a  good  many  indicted. 
They  are  seeking  to  do  away  with  the  carrying  of  deadly  weapons. 
There  is  a  statute  here  that  allows  a  traveler  to  carry  a  revolver,  but 
he  must  unmount  his  gun,  as  they  sa}^  here,  when  he  comes  into  an 
inhabited  village,  or  a  settlement. 

Q.  What  do  they  consider  a  settlement? — A.  The  statute  that  covers 
that  question  has  declared  that  what  is  meant  by  a  settlement  is  a 
single  house,  or  more. 

Q.  He  must  take  his  gun  off  when  he  reaches  a  settlement? — A. 
Yes,  sir, 

CIVIL   CASES. 

Q.  Now,  as  to  the  civil  side  of  your  docket,  Judge;  how  do  the 
cases  on  that  side  run? — A.  Well,  the  civil  side  of  the  docket,  that  is 
very  much  as  it  is  in  the  Eastern  States — it  covers  all  classes  of  litiga- 
tion. There  is  not  a  great  deal  of  mining  law;  there  is  not  a  great 
deal  of  irrigation  law,  but  some;  I  have  had  but  very  little  mining 
and  irrigation  litigation  before  me,  but  I  have  had  some.  1  have  had 
some  chancery  proceduie  before  me,  in  regard  to  the  division  of  prop- 
erty and  estates,  and  the  settlement  of  estates;  and  I  have  had  a  good 
many  actions  upon  contract,  and  the  ordinary  commercial  business. 
There  is  also  a  great  deal  of  divorce  in  the  Territory. 

EASY   TO   OBTAIN    A    DIVORCE. 

There  is  probably  no  place  in  the  world  where  a  divorce  is  so  easily 
obtained  as  it  is  in  the  T'erritorv  of  New  Mexico.     The  moment  that  a 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  113 

inair.s  wife  puts  her  shawl  on  her  head  and  says  to  him  "I  am  tired  of 
livin^>-  with  you:  I  am  o'oiiig-  home  to  my  mother,""  he  is  entitled  to  and 
may  secure  a  divorce  under  the  laws  of  this  Territory.  He  can  get  a 
divorce  from  her  in  twenty-tive  days  after  that  kind  of  an  adandon- 
ment.  and  the  divorced  wife  may  be  carrying  the  offspring  of  her  late 
husband  to  a  second  husband  within  thirty  days  after  she  has  left  the 
tirst  one. 

ABANDONMENT   THE    PRINCIPAL   GROUNDS. 

Of  all  of  the  divorce  cases  which  have  come  before  me  since  I  have 
been  on  the  bench  all.  with  one  or  two  exceptions  only,  have  been 
based  upon  a))andonment. 

Q.  And  there  is  no  time  required  that  the  abandonment  shall  have 
continued  to  entitle  the  applicant  to  a  divorce  on  that  ground,  then  i — 
A.  No,  sir;  any  abandonment  proven  by  the  words  spoken,  and  because 
she  has  left  his  bed  and  board  is  sufficient  cause.  For  people  not  resi- 
dents of  the  Territory  one  year's  residence  in  the  Territory  is  required. 

B3"  the  Chairman: 

Q.  How  long  does  it  take  them  to  become  citizens  of  the  Terri- 
tory; to  vote? — A.  Six  months. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

And  here,  at  the  hour  of  8  o'clock  p.  m.,  the  committee  arose,  to 
resume  hearings  at  some  point  in  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico,  to  be 
later  determined. 


On  Train  near  Carlsbad,  N.  Mex., 

Fridaii,  Xoreinhtr  ^21^  1902 — 9  j)-  m. 
After  leaving  the  above-named  town  the  committee  resumed  hearing 
of  testimony  relative  to  the  question  of  the  admission  of  the  Territory 
of  New  Mexico  as  a  State,  and  heard  the  testimony  of  the  following- 
citizens  of  Carlsbad: 

Francis  Gallatin  Tracy,  called  as  a  witness,  and  tirst  having  been 
dul}'  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  to  the  committee  your  name  and  your  business. — 
A.  My  name  is  Francis  Gallatin  Tracy;  I  am  president  and  manager 
of  the  Pecos  Irrigation  Company. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  held  that  position? — A.  I  have  been  for 
two  years  in  that  position. 

Q."  What  is  the  Pecos  Valley  Irrigation  Company? — A.  That  is  a 
company  organized  to  impound  the  waters  out  of  running  streams  and 
to  sell  them  in  the  way  of  water  rights  and  for  rentals:  and  to  buy 
and  sell  land,  Iniild  reservoirs,  and  build  canals. 

Q.  How  long  has  the  company  been  in  operation? — A.  The  present 
company  will  be  two  years  next  February,  but  the  plant,  through 
various  reorganizations,  has  been  in  operation  since  1891. 

Q.  What  is  the  mileage  of  your  main  canal  now  actually  carrying 
water? — A.  Now  actually  in  use? 

Q.  Yes,  sir;  actually  in  use  to-day. — A.  It  is  between  25  and  30 
miles;  I  can  not  tell  you  exactl}^,  because  it  has  a  channel  that  meanders. 

H  s  B 8 


114  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  You  have  a  channel  that  i.s  longer  than  that^ — A.  Yes,  sir;  4u 
miles. 

Q.  How  many  acres  have  you  under  cultivation  f — A.  We  have 
12,500  acres  that  almost  every  acre  got  crops  this  year. 

KINDS   OF   CROPS    RAISED. 

Q.  What  is  the  nature  of  the  crops  raised  on  that  land'^ — A.  Chiefly 
alfalfa  and  Kaffir  corn.  There  is  some  cotton  and  fruit  of  various 
kinds,  and  various  kinds  of  vegetables;  but  the  main  crops  are  the 
fodder  crops. 

Q.  The  alfalfa  being  the  chief  fodder  crop^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  object  of  the  agriculture  is  to  supplement  the  grazing 
qualities  of  the  country? — ^A.  Yes,  sir;  to  aid  it,  to  supplement  it. 

Q.  This  valley,  then,  is  essentially  a  stock-raising  valley? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  in  the  first  instance.  We  raise,  though,  a  very  fine  quality  of 
fruit,  and,  eventually,  I  believe  that  the  valley  will  rank  very  high  on 
that  product.  We  have  been  in  competition  with  California  and  other 
districts,  both  in  apples  and  peaches,  and  we  have  never  been  surpassed 
in  the  prices  that  we  get  in  the  market. 

Q.  Is  your  water  drawn  from  the  Pecos  River? — A.  Yes,  sir;  w^e 
have  two  dams  across  that  river. 

Q.  The  Pecos  River  is  the  river  we  have  been  traveling  along. all 
afternoon,  is  it? — A.  Yes,  sir.  It  has  a  watershed  of  250  miles  long 
above  here,  and  about  60  miles  wide. 

WHAT    SUPPORTS   CARLSBAD. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  What  supports  this  town? — A.  The  main  support  of  the  town, 
sir.  is  the  live-stock  interests  of  the  surrounding  country;  the  farming 
interests,  of  course,  also  support  it,  but  the  main  support  is  the  live- 
stock interests,  sir.  We  shipped  10,000  cattle  here  last  year,  and  a 
million  pounds  of  wool.     We  have  a  wool-scouring  plant. 

Q.  What  is  the  nearest  town? — A.  The  nearest  town  is  Roswell,  75 
miles  away. 

Q.  You  have  the  trade  of  the  surrounding  territory? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
we  secure  a  trade  in  all  directions  for  -lO  or  50  miles. 

Q.  What  is  your  water  supply  for  this  town  ? — A.  It  is  from  wells 
3  miles  south  of  town;  it  is  a  pure  lime  water. 

Q.  Are  those  what  are  known  as  the  springs? — A.  No,  sir;  that  is 
an  underground  flow. 

Q.  Have  you  springs  in  addition ;;—  A.  Yes,  sir;  we  have  the  springs 
springs  on  the  banks  of  the  Pecos.     That  is  how  it  gets  its  name. 

Q.  What  is  the  population  of  your  tow^n? — A.  The  town  has  a 
population  of  about  1.500.     We  have  not  had  a  census  very  lately. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  What  did  the  census  of  li>00  show? — A.  I  can  not  tell  you  the 
exact  figures;  the  Census  Commissioner  is  on  here. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  Have  you  a  sufficient  amount  of  water  to  make  irrigation  reliable 
from  year  to  year  over  this  territorj'^  of  which  you  have  spoken  ? — A. 
Yes,  sir:  I  think  the  water  supply  here  is  almost  uidimited  if  you  could 
store  sufficient.     The  floods  here  are  enormous. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  115 


WATER   STORAGE. 

Q.  Can  you  store  sufficient,  or  are  you  .storing-  sufficients — A.  We 
are  storino-  sufficient  for  double  the  acreage  which  we  have  under 
cultivation.     But  that  can  be  indefinitely  extended  by  other  reservoirs. 

Q.  What  is  the  cost  of  the  irrigation  to  a  farm,  say,  of  160  acres  S — 
A.  Do  you  mean  the  value  of  the  water? 

COST   OF   IRRIGATION. 

Q.  Yes,  sir;  what  is  the  annual  charge  for  water? — A.  We  charge 
them  $1.25  an  acre. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  What  is  the  source  of  the  water  for  your  irrigation  here? — A. 
We  have  two  dams  across  the  Pecos  River,  one  11  miles  north  and  the 
other  6  miles. 

Q.  What  are  they  ? — A.  One  is  the  storage  reservoir,  the  upper  one, 
and  the  other  one  is  just  the  one  from  which  the  canal  is  headed  and 
the  water  diverted.  The  combined  capacit}^  is  80,000  acre-feet.  They 
are  arrived  at  by  two  dams  of  about  the  same  length,  1,100  feet  long 
and  about  15  feet  high  each.  They  are  rock-filled  dams,  and  have 
ample  spillway  to  spill  the  fiood.  We  have  floods  that  run  to  20,000 
acre-feet  in  this  valley. 

Q.  What  is  your  investment  in  this  plant!'-  A.  The  construction 
account  alone  was  nearlv  $2,000,000,  and  the  companv  was  originally 
incorporated  for  $1,750,000  and  bonded  for  $900,000. ' 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Is  there  anything  else  that  3'ou  think  of  that  you  would  like  to 
say  to  this  committee? — A.  No,  sir;  I  think  not,  sir. 
And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

L.  O.  Fullen,  called  as  a  witness,  first  having  been  duly  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Please  state  to  the  committee  your  name,  age,  and  business. — A. 
L.  O.  Fullen;  age,  30;  postmaster,  and  editor  of  the  Argus,  and  engaged 
in  sheep  raising. 

Q.  How  long  have  3'ou  been  down  here? — A.  In  the  Pecos  Valley 
twelve  years. 

Q.  Where  did  you  come  here  from? — A.  From  western  Kansas. 

Q.   What  is  the  circulation  of  your  paper  ? — A.  About  eight  hundred. 

Q.  It  is  an  English  paper,  is  it  not? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  population  of  Carlsbad  is  practically  all  American,  is  it  not  ? — 
A  Yes.  sir;  you  might  say  it  is  wholly;  there  are  15  Mexican  voters  in 
the  county. 

Q.  What  was  the  population  by  the  census  of  1000? — A.  Less  than 
a  thousand. 

Q.  You  sa}'  you  are  engaged  in  sheep  raising? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

sheep  raising. 

Q.  Does  the  raising  of  sheep  successfully  require  the  raising  of 
alfalfa  for  them? — A.  No,  sir. 


116  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  They  use  .simply  the  g-rass  off  the  open  country? — A.  Yes.  sir. 
Q.   How  many  sheep  are  o-razed  in  this  county? — A.   In  the  adjoin- 
ing country  then'  is  probably  150,0(»0  head  of  sheep. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.   We  understand  that  this  town  is  supported  by  its  agriculture 
and  herding-  stock? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  Do  you  use  the  alfalfa  for  winter  feed  or  fo  rfattening  cattle? — 
A.  For  fattening  cattle. 

Q.  How  many  cattle  have  j^ou  here? — A.  I  do  not  know  that  I  can 
answer  that;  I  do  not  know.  The  cattle  interests  and  the  sheep  inter- 
ests are  verj-  equalh'  divided  in  this  county. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Have  you  any  statement  in  addition  to  the  answers  you  have 
given  to  this  connuittee,  which  you  desire  to  make  I — A.  We  would 
like  to  have  some  voice  in  the  selection  of  the  men  who  rule  over  this 
Territory.     As  it  is  now  we  are  absolutelv  voiceless. 

Q.  You  do  not  entirely  mean  that,  now,  do  you?  You  vote  for 
members  of  the  legislature,  and  so  on. — A.  Yes,  sir;  Init  I  mean  our 
judiciary  and  our  governor.  These  men  come  here  and  do  man}-  things 
wrong,  and  they  have  to  answer  to  nobody.  If  they  have  sufficient 
influence  to  secure  their  appointment,  thev  have  sufficient  influence  to 
hold  their  places  in  spite  of  everything. 

Q.  Now,  upon  that  subject,  what  have  you  to  say  about  the  present 
judiciary  of  the  Territory? — A.  I  think  it  is  good  except  the  flfth 
judicial  district.  We  have  charges  against  the  judge  of  this  district 
on  file  in  Washington.  They  were  filed  by  a  committee,  of  which  Mr. 
Tracy  and  I  are  members,  and  we  think  we  could  substantiate  them 
if  we  could  get  a  hearing,  but  we  can  not  get  it.  That  is  one  reason 
for  our  grievance.  Now,  if  that  man  was  elected  by  the  people  he 
would  have  to  answer  to  the  people.  He  could  not  go  on  and  make 
himself  obnoxious  and  not  be  in  danger  of  losing  his  position.  Now, 
that  is  the  principal  fault  that  we  find. 

SCHOOLS. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  What  about  the  schools  here  ? — A.   We  have  good  schools. 

Q.  How  many  pupils  in  your  village? — A.  In  the  city  schools  we 
have  a  school  population — it  is  about  four  or  five  hundred. 

Q.  How"  many  teachers  have  you? — A.  Six  teachers,  I  think,  in  the 
cit}"  school  building.     Ever}-  district  in  the  county  has  schools. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  How  often  do  you  have  rains  here? — A.  Our  rainy  season  is 
June,  Jul}-,  and  August. 

DO    NOT    DEPEND    ON    RAIN. 

Q.  You  do  not  depend  upon  the  rain  for  vour  agriculture  at  all,  do 
you?— A.  Not  at  all. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  117 

James  O.  Cameron,  called  as  a  witness,  first  having  been  duly  sworn, 
testitied  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Burnham: 

Q.  You  ma}'  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  James  O. 
Cameron. 

Q.  You  are  an  attorney? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  you  a  sheep  raiser,  too? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  raise  some  sheep 
and  some  cattle. 

Q.  What  do  you  want  to  tell  us? — A.  1  just  simply  want  to  register 
the  fact  that  the  people  1  represent  want  statehood. 

Q.  Have  3'ou  reasons  for  that?  Can  you  give  this  committee  any 
information? — A.  Yes,  sir.  My  idea  is  that  this  country  is  in  a  fair 
way;  it  is  beginning  to  develop.  I  have  lived  in  the  valley  here 
thirteen  years,  and  I  have  lived  here  during  the  whole  of  the  develop- 
ment of  the  country. 

IMMIGRATION. 

There  is  now  starting  in  a  good  immigration  and  a  good  develop- 
ment in  the  country. 

Q.  Where  is  that  from? — A.  All  over  the  United  States.  I  believe 
that  the  fact  is  that  the  immigration  here  now  most  of  it  comes  from 
the  Middle  States.  The  immigration  heretofore  has  been  largely  from 
Texas  and  Missouri,  and  some  from  the  Southern  States. 

Q.  Where  are  you  from?  What  other  fact  have  you  to  give  us? — 
A.  1  think  if  we  could  get  statehood  it  would  encourage  the  immigra- 
tion here  and  aid  the  development  of  this  countrv  here. 

Q.  Why  do  you  think  that!'—  A.  For  this  reason:  That  there  is  a 
great  many  people  throughout  the  country  that  do  npt  have  a  proper 
idea  of  a  Territorial  government. 

B3'  the  Chairman: 
Q.  I  think  jon  might  help  the  committee  more  if  you  would  give  us 
some  facts  and  information. — A.  Of  course  1  am  all  the  time  here  up 
and  down  this  railroad  in  my  business,  and  1  am  seeing  the  people  that 
are  coming  in  and  looking  into  affairs  w4th  a  view  to  coming  in  here 
to  settle,  and  of  course  I  talk  with  them. 

INQUIRIES   AS    TO    TERRITORY. 

And  the}'  naturally  begin  to  inquire  about  things.  One  thing  they 
always  inquire  about  is  how  our  officers  are  here,  how  we  select  them. 
Well,  of  course,  now.  our  officers  here  are  appointed  and  sent  here. 

Q.  What  local  officers  have  you  appointed  and  sent  here?^ — A.  No 
local  officers  are  appointed.  They  ask  about  our  judiciary,  and  of 
course  our  judges  are  all  appointed. 

Q.  How  many  people  have  you  had  to  ask  you?  Who  asked  you  if 
3'our  judiciary  was  appointed? — A.  Well,  I  would  say  half  of  them 
who  inquired  about  the  country;  knowing  that  I  am  a  lawyer,  they 
generally  drifted  into  that  subject. 

Q.  They  all  learn  that  you  are  a  lawyer,  do  they  ? — A.  That  nat- 
uralh'  comes  up,  because  they  want  to  know  what  a  man's  business  is. 
1  do  not  know  that  1  have  anv  facts  further  than  this. 

Q.  Do  you  raise  anything  outside  of  alfalfa  and  fodder  and  fruit  J — 
A.   No.  sir. 

Q.  There  is  no  mining  in  this  district? — A.  No,  sir. 


118  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

AGRICULTURE   AND   GRAZING. 

Q.   It  is  purely  agriculture  and  g-razing  :■ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Within  your  personal  knowledge,  what  has  been  3'our  increase 
in  immigration  within  the  last  two  j^ears? — A.  Well,  sir,  where  my 
ranch  is  located,  within  the  last  two  years,  quite  a  large  number — 
what  I  mean  by  a  large  number — 1  would  sa}^  that  the  population  has 
increased  25  per  cent  by  immigration  coming  in. 

Q.  Do  you  remeniljer  what  your  school  registration  or  enumeration 
was  in  Carlsbad  two  years  ngoi — A.  No;  I  do  not. 

Q.   Do  you  know  what  it  is  now? — A.  No.  sir, 

Q.  What  do  j^ou  mean  by  in  the  neighborhood  of  your  ranch? — A. 
Well,  that  is  in  the  northwestern  corner  of  this  counh^  50  miles  from 
Carlsbad.  Before,  there  were  perhaps,  I  should  say,  4:0  little  farms 
along  on  a  little  stream  there,  and  to-day  that  has  increased  to  per- 
haps 50  or  60..  The  farms  haye  been  increased,  not  bj^  those  farms 
being  diyided  up,  but  b}^  new  settlers  coming  in. 

Q.  How  large  are  those  fai-ms? — A.  Well,  sir,  those  farms  will 
range  from  100  acres  in  cultiyation  on  down  to  5. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

William  C.  Reiff,  first  haying  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as 
follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
William  C.  Reifl'. 

Q.  And  your  age  is  w^hat? — A.  Fifty-seyen  jeavs  old  last  week. 

By  Senator  Burnham: 

Q.  Were  you  a  census  enumerator  at  the  last  census? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  your  district  included  what? — A.  The  southern  half  of  this 
county. 

Q.  How  many  people  were  included  in  your  enumeration? — A.  I 
can  not  tell  you;  in  the  south  half  of  Carlsbad  Ave  haye  745,  and  400 
or  500  around  there. 

Q.  Did  you  take  an  oath  to  make  a  complete  and  accurate  enumera- 
tion of  the  people  in  your  district? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  comply  with  it;! — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  did. 

CENSUS    enumeration    PERFECT. 

Q.  And  your  return  of  the  number  of  persons  in  your  district  was 
perfect,  was  it? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

R.  W.  Tansill,  first  haying  !)een  duh'  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 
B}'  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
R.  W.  Tansill. 

Q.  And  you  may  state  your  age,  and  your  occupation,  and  how  long 
you  haye  been  here  at  Carlsl)ad. — A.   1  came  here  in  September,  1888. 

Q.  Did  you  come  here  for  your  health? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  came  here 
for  my  health.     1  was  44  years  of  age.     I  was  born  in  1844,  in  Virginia. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  1]9 

Q.   What  is  your  business^— A.  My  business  was  the cig-ar  business. 

Q.  Wliat  is  "your  business  here? — A.  I  have  no  business  here.  I 
came  here  andl  became  interested  in  thing's,  and  I  took  some  interest 
in  the  irrigation  company,  and  1  have  some  interest  in  some  patches 
of  land. 

Q.  The  committee  has  heard  from  the  president  of  tlie  irrigation 
company  concerning  that.  We  understand,  also,  that  the  population 
of  this  county  is  practically  all  American'^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  the  occupation  of  the  people  here  is  chiefly  agriculture 
and  grazing  ^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  the  agriculture  is  supplemental  to  the  cattle-raising 
and  sheep-raising  industries? — A.   Yes,  sir;  that  is  right. 

Q.  Now,  sir,  if  there  is  anything  which  you  can  state  to  the  com- 
mittee in  addition  to  that  we  would  like  to  have  you  do  so. — A.  I 
receive  a  great  deal  of  correspondence.  My  name  has  gone  out — has 
appeared  on  a  great  deal  of  the  literature  that  has  gone  out  from  this 
county,  and  the}^  have  written  me  about  it.  It  is  true  the  country 
is  developing  very  rapidly  now.  You  take  Roswell.  When  I  came 
here  in  1888  it  was  a  town  of  900  inhabitants;  it  has  now  4,000  or 
•±,200.  This  town,  I  have  said  a  good  many  times,  there  was  nothing 
here  but  jack  rabbits  and  prairie  dogs.  My  wife  has  named  the  town 
both  times. 

EXTENT    OF   LAND   UNDER    IRRIGATION. 

Q.  I  believe  you  stated  that  there  was  about  12,500  acres  under 
irrigation  here?— A.  Yes.  sir;  that  is  right  at  Carlsbad. 

Q.  How  many  schools  have  you  in  Carlsbad? — A.  I  think  there  are 
three. 

Q.  Have  you  any  high  school  in  Carlsbad? — A.  I  won't  be  certain 
for  that. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  how  many  teachers  you  have  in  Carlsbad? — 
A.  I  do  not  know  exactly.  It  has  been  stated  to  you,  of  course,  that 
we  are  law-abiding  citizens  down  here.  I  leave  my  doors  all  open  at 
night  and  all  those  things,  and  we  feel  perfectly  safe  in  this  county. 
We  have  good  officers  here,  so  far  as  our  sheriti's  and  so  on  are  con- 
cerned; in  fact,  I  feel  much  more  comfortable  here,  so  far  as  safety  is 
concerned,  than  I  would  in  Chicago. 

MANY    COME    FOR   THEIR   HEALTH. 

Q.  Do  many  people  come  here  for  their  health? — A.  Yes,  sir;  a  veiy 
large  per  cent  of  the  people  come  here  for  their  health.  They  come 
here  for  their  health,  and  they  have  been  greatly  l)enetited,  and  they 
stay  here,  and  make  our  Ix'st  citizens.  Did  I  tell  you  that  a  man  came 
direct  from  Paris,  France,  with  his  family,  for  their  healthj  And 
another  ladv  came  directly  from  New  York  City  last  night.  She  is  a 
splendid  lady,  by  the  way,  and  highly  connected.  And  the  healthful- 
ness  of  our  climate  brings  a  great  many  tine  people. 

CLIMATE. 

Q.  Is  the  trouble  that  people  come  here  for  mainly  trouble  with  the 
lungs!'— A.  Yes,  sir;  mainly  for  that.  This  is  a  splendid  climate  for 
nervous  trouble,  too. 

Q.  What  is  your  altitude?— -A.  Thirty-one  hundred  and  fifty  feet. 


120  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  If  there  are  aii}^  other  facts  you  desire  to  la,y  before  the  commit- 
tee, or  any  information  other  than  what  you  know  has  been  given  us, 
you  may  give  them. — A.  I  am  not  going  to  dwell  upon  this  statehood 
proposition,  and  I  really  do  not  know  anything  that  1  can  add  to  what 
has  been  said.  If  you  can  lead  out  on  any  questions,  I  will  ])e  glad  to 
answer  them. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

efAMES  O.  Cameron,  recalled,  testified  as  follows: 

PROPERTY  VALUES  INCREASED. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Have  you  any  further  facts  to  present?  — A.  There  is  one  fact 
that  occurs  lo  me.  ^  1  can  not  tell  what  the  increase  in  population  has 
been  in  the  last  two  years  in  Eddy  County,  but  I  know  that  values  of 
property  have  increased  in  the  county  in  the  last  two  years  38^  per 
cent.  That  is  due  to  the  more  competent  and  high  class  of  immigrants, 
and  more  immigration  than  we  have  had  before.  A  property  which 
sold  in  the  town  of  (Jarlsbad  for  $800  two  years  ago,  ^S,50o  was  refused 
for  it  last  month. 

Q.   What  property  was  that? — A.  A  town  lot  there  in  town. 

Q.  How  large  was  that  lot? — A.  Twenty-five  feet  front. 

Q.  Do  you  think  of  any  other  fact?— A"^.  The  assessed  valuation  of 
the  county  has  increased  in  the  last  three  years,  according  to  our 
assessment  rolls,  in  the  neighborhood  of  $500,000.  Now,  you  asked 
me  about  the  schools.  I,  of  course,  have  some  children  going  to 
school,  and  in  a  general  way  I  pay  attention  to  those  schools.  I  think  I 
am  correct  in  stating  our  population — that  is,  our  ordinary  attendance 
in  the  public  schools' at  Cftrlsl)ad— is  400  now,  of  which  schools,  all  over 
the  county  the  schools  have  increased.  I  am  very  well  acquainted 
with  the  school  superintendent. 

AN   AMERICAN    COUNTY. 

Q.  This  is  one  of  the  counties  known  as  an  American  county,  is  it? — 
A.  Yes,  sir.  I  do  not  think  we  have  over  six  Mexican  taxpayers  4n  the 
county.  I  practice  law.  and  there  has  been  only  one  term  of  court  in 
twelve  years  where  there  has  been  a  Mexican  sat  on  the  jury.  There 
was  one  term  of  court  when  there  was  two  Mexicans  on  the  jury.  I 
think  95  per  cent  of  the  population  of  Eddy  County  is  white  people. 

Q.  Do  you  have  an  interpreter  in  your  court? — A.  No,  sir;  we  do 
not  need  an  interpreter  for  our  juiy  only  when  there  is  a  Spanish- 
speaking  witness.  I  believe  that  a  larger  per  cent  than  that  of  the 
voting  population  are  Americans,  and  most  all  are  native-born  Ameri- 
cans; very  few  of  them  are  foreign-born  people. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  had  this  railroad  here?— A.  This  railroad 
was  })uilt  into  Carlsbad  in  1S1>1,  and  went  on  through  to  Roswell  in 
1894.  The  increase  in  Chaves  County  would  be  much  more  than  in 
this  county. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

And  here  further  hearing  of  testimony  was  adjourned  to  Oklahoma 
Territory. 


TERRITORY  OF  ARIZONA. 


Prescott,  Ariz.,  Monday,  JSfoi'emher  17^  1902. 
At  the  Burke  Hotel,  at  the  above-named  place  and  date,  the  com- 
mittee began  the  hearing  of  testimony  in   Arizona  Territory  at  the 
hour  of  9  o'clock  a.  m. 

Henry  Hartin  called,  and  first  having-  ])oen  duly  sworn,  testified 
as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Henry  Hartin. 

Q.   How  old  are  you,  Mr.  Hartin^ — A.  Twenty-three  years  old. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  of  this  Territory?— A.  Yes,  Sir;  I  have  always 
lived  at  Prescott. 

Q.  What  was  your  census  district? — A.  Why,  1  do  not  remember 
the  number  of  it  now. 

Q.  Was  it  in  town  here? — A.   No,  sir;  it  was  in  the  country. 

Q.  How  far  from  here? — A.  It  run  from  here  down  to  Agua  Fria; 
down  through  the  Black  Hills. 

Q.  Can  you  remember,  in  a  rough  way,  what  the  total  area  and 
population  of  your  district  was? — A.   No,  sir;  I  can  not. 

Q.  You  took  an  oath,  did  you,  before  entering  upon  your  duties  as 
census  enumerator,  to  faithfully  and  honestly  enumerate  the  people  of 
your  district? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  do  that?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

CENSUS   ACCURATE. 

Q.   Your  census  was  accurate,  was  it? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

OCCUPATION    OF    PEOPLE. 

Q.  What  was  the  nature  of  the  occupation  of  the  people  out  in  the 
country  districts  which  you  enumerated^ — A.  Why,  mining  and  stock 
raising,  and  a  little  agriculture. 

Q.  Where  was  the  agriculture  carried  on? — A.  Down  on  the  Verde, 
about  the  head  of  the  Verde  Valley,  along  the  river. 

Q.  They  worked  the  valley  along  the  river? — X.  Yes,  sir, 

Q.  Have  you  Ijcen  pretty  well  over  the  Territory? — A.  No,  sir;  I 
have  been  pretty  well  over  Yavapai  County,  but  not  over  the  Terri- 
toiy. 

Q,  How  far  was  the  irrigation  taken  from  the  river  in  the  Verde 
Valley,  of  which  you  spoke? — A.  Not  at  all;  it  was  just  along  the  bed 
of  the  river. 

Bv  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  How  wide  is  the  valley? — A.  It  was  not  quite  a  quarter  of  a 
mile;  it  was  not,  at  the  widest  place,  a  quarter  of  a  mile  wide. 

121 


122  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  What  is  the  stock  business  principalh^,  cattle  or  sheep? — 
A.  Cattle,  and  quite  a  few  sheep. 

NATURE   OF    POPULATION. 

Q.  Wliat  is  the  nature  of  the  population,  American  or  Mexican? — 
A.   Mostly  Americans. 

Q.  Any  Mexicans? — A.  There  are  a  few  Mexicans,  and  some  Basque 
French. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

J.  J.  Sanders,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been  duly  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairj\l\n: 

Q.  You  may  state  3"our  name  to  the  committee. — A.  J.  J.  Sanders. 

Q.  And  3"our  age? — A.  Forty-two  years. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  of  this  Territoiy? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  here? — A.  I  have  been  here  about  six 
years  and  a  half. 

Q.  What  was  your  census  district;  that  is,  were  was  it  located? — 
A.  It' was  in  the  southeastern  part  of  Yavapai  County. 

Q.  I  suppose  you  do  not  remember,  in  the  rough,  the  number  of 
people  in  your  district? — A.  It  was  somewhere  in  the  neighborhood  of 
1,100. 

Q.  Before  3'ou  entered  upon  j^our  duties  as  enumerator  you  took  an 
oath  to  honestly,  faithfully,  and  accurately  enumerate  the  people  in 
3"our  district? — A.  Yes, sir. 

census  accurate. 

Q.  Did  3^ou  do  so? — A.  As  far  as  I  was  able. 

Q.  Of  course,  3^ou  did  it  as  far  as  3"ou  were  able.  Your  census 
report  was  accurate,  to  the  best  of  3'our  ability,  was  it? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  the  occupation  of  the  people  in  3^our  district? — A. 
Miners,  prospectors,  and  stock  raisers. 

Q.  What  was  the  character  of  the  population — as  to  whether  it  was 
American  or  Mexican,  as  the3"  are  called  down  here? — A.  Largel3" 
American.     I  had  very  few  Mexicans. 

Q.  Was  there  anv  other  nationality? — A.  There  were  a  few  Indians; 
about  20  Indians. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q,  Do  3"ou  think  that  the  census  is  complete?     There  are  some  state- 
ments around  that  the  census  does  not  do  the  Territor3^  justice.     Do 
3^ou  think  the  census  is  complete? — A.  No, sir;  I  do  not. 

difficulty  in  taking  census. 

Q.  As  far  as  3'our  district  is  concerned? — A.  As  to  my  district  and 
others,  we  could  not  get  over  the  whole  county.  I  worked  twenty- 
eight  days  of  the  thirty  days  in  June  from  ten  to  eighteen  hours, 
and  1  was  played  out,  and  1  could  not  reach  all  the  points.  There  was 
some  few  that  I  could  not  reach  in  the  mountains — prospectors  out  in 
the  hills. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  Did  you  so  report  to  the  Government? — A.   Well,  I  reported  to 
the  supervisor,  verbalh'. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  123 

By  the  Chairman: 
(^.  Take  your  own  district. — A.   It  was  aliout  40  miles  long-  and 
about  10  miles  wide,  in  the  mountain  country,  and  it  was  rough. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  Did  the  enumerators  get  in  an^'  extra  time?  Were  the  enumera- 
tors in  this  Territory  given  any  extra  time? — A.  Well,  I  believe  they 
did  give  them  thirty  days  extra  time  down  in  Graham  County.  We 
were  allowed  overtime  for  all  we  worked  over  ten  hours  a  day.  but  we 
w^ere  not  allowed  any  extra  time.  Graham  County  had  to  get  extra 
time  to  get  over  the  county. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  I  understand  that  those  few  whom  you  missed  were  prospectors  'i — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Judge  Richard  E.  Sloan,  called  by  the  committee  as  a  witness, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Judge,  please  state  vour  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Richard  E. 
Sloan. 

Q.  And  your  official  position  is  what? — A.  Associate  justice  of  the 
supreme  court  of  Arizona  and  judge  of  the  fourth  judicial  district. 

Q.  How"  long  have  you  lived  in  the  Territory? — A.  I  have  lived  in 
the  Territory  since  ISSl.  and  in  this  district  since  189-4. 

Q.  Have  3"0u  been  in  the  Territory  outside  of  the  cities  very  much  ? — 
A.  I  have  been  all  over  the  Territory,  in  every  part  of  it,  and  have 
held  court  in  nearly  every  county  in  the  Territor}. 

mining,  a(jriculture.  and  stock  raising. 

Q.  What  w^ould  you  state  to  the  committee  of  the  character  of  the 
industries  of  the  Territory,  from  your  observation  ? — A.  The  indus- 
tries may  be  divided  into  three,  practically — the  mining,  the  agricul- 
tural, and  the  stock  raising.  The  mining  industry  is  the  prominent 
one,  and  especially  in  this  district.  The  cattle  and  sheep  industry  is 
improving,  l)ut  much  less  so  than  the  mining-,  except  in  the  counties 
of  Apache,  Navajo,  and  Coconino.  These  counties  are  sheep  growing, 
except  in  Coconino  County,  where  the  lumber  industry  amounts  to 
considerable.  Practically  the  whole  county  is  covered  by  the  two 
forest  reservations,  however,  and  in  the  future  the  lumber  industry 
will  be  confined  to  rather  narrow  limits.  The  county  of  Yavapai  is 
largely  dependent  upon  the  mines  for  its  industries.  By  mining,  or 
the  industries  connected  with  the  mines,  I  mean  the  extraction  of  ores 
and  the  treatment  of  ores,  millii^g  and  smelting.  In  the  country 
south  of  us,  in  Maricopa  County,  that  is  largely  agricultural.  That 
is  the  count}'  of  which  Phoenix  is  the  (.-ounty  seat,  and  the  capital  of 
the  Territory.  You  will  perhaps  acquaint  yourselves  with  the  condi- 
tions there  when  you  are  there. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  I  think  you  had  better  state  them,  if  you  please. — A.  The  Salt 
River  Valley  is  a  magnificent  empire  in  possibility.     As  j^ou  will  note 


124  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

as  you  ^'o  throug-h  it,  nature  laid  it  out  for  irrigation.  It  does  not 
require  any  preparation  in  order  that  the  water  may  he  distributed 
econoniieally  over  the  land. 

WATER    SUPPLY. 

We  have  had  for  a  series  of  years  a  remarkable  shortage  of  water, 
and  for  that  reason  the  farmers  have  not  prospered  as  they  did  in 
former  years.  The  amount  of  land  that  can  be  utilized  is  practically 
unlimited.  The  water  necessarily  is  limited.  The  rainfall  is  not  such 
as  to  atiord  sufficient  water  for  all  the  land  in  the  Salt  Kiver  Valley. 
However,  there  are  possibilities  for  the  storage  of  water  which  will  be 
completed.  If  those  works  which  are  now  contemplated  are  completed, 
that  will  add  many  thousands  of  acres  to  cultivation. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  That  has  reference  to  the  bill  before  Congress  with  reference  to 
an  irrigation  S3^stem  ( — A.  Yes,  sir.  Howeyer.  there  are  some  private 
enterprises  contemplated,  and  one  or  two  of  them  are  partially  com- 
pleted that  will  add  practically  to  the  water  supply.  I  have  reference 
more  particularly  to  what  is  called  the  Agua  Fria  dam  and  the  water- 
storage  proposition  there.  But  the  great  proposition  is  the  one  which 
the  Government  may  construct,  or  I  trust  will  conr-truct,  at  the  point 
known  as  the  Tonto  Basin.     That  is  on  the  Tpper  Salt  River. 

Q.  That  is  the  one  in  which  Mr.  Heard  is  the  engineering  expert 
down  there,  and  is  interested  in  his  official  capacity,  is  it  not? — A.  Yes, 
sir.  I  do  not  know  whether  he  has  any  official  capacity,  except  that 
he  is  water  commissioner.  The  examination  of  this  site  and  the 
report  was  made  by  Mr.  Davis,  who  is  in  the  Government  service. 

Q.  In  the  Geological  Survey  'i — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  proceed  witj  your  statement? — A.  He  has  reported, 
as  I  understand  it.  favorable,  and  has  given  an  estimate  of  the  probable 
co.st,  which  shows  it  to  be  a  reasonable  proposition  from  an  economical 
standpoint,  and  so  that  the  Government  of  the  United  States  may  con- 
struct the  reservoir  within  the  terms  of  the  bill,  and  so  that  the  con- 
sumers of  water  may  utilize  the  water.  There  is  some  mining  in 
Maricopa  County,  and  some  properties  that  are  valuable,  but  the 
development  is  practically  in  its  infancy.  To  the  south  and  east  of 
Maricopa  is  Penal  County,  which  has  most  of  the  same  features  as 
Maricopa  County.  It  has  an  abundance  of  very  fine  land,  some  of 
which  has  been  put  under  cultivation,  but  they  have  no  water  storage 
there.  There  is  an  available  water  storage  site  on  the  Gila  some 
distance  above  the  town  of  Florence.  That  has  been  .surveyed,  and 
estimates  made  of  the  probable  cost  of  that  by  the  Government,  and 
the  people  there  are  hoping  that  the  Government  will  construct  a 
reservoir  in  the  Gila,  so  as  to  bring  in  cultivation  the  land  in  that 
county,  particularly  in  the  hope  of  providing  Avater  for  the  Pima 
Indians,  whose  reservation  is  along  the  Gila  River. 

Q.  Their  reservation,  the  committee  understands,  depends  almost 
on  that? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

water    and    PIMA    INDIANS. 

Q.  They  are  in  a  process  of  extinction  without  it? — A.  Ye:?,  .sir; 
they  are  almost  in  a  destitute  condition.  I  understand.     I  was  at  one 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  125 

time  familiar  with  tho.se  Intlians.  I  lived  in  that  eountv  at  one  time. 
They  were  then  in  a  fairly  prosperous  condition,  for  there  was  water 
for  "their  lands.  Tliey  grew  wheat  and  the  ordinary  vegetables,  such 
as  pumpkins  and  corn  "unci  sciuashes;  but  wheat  was  their  principal 
product.  That  is  not  possi1)le  now.  inasnuich  as  practically  ail  of  the 
surface  water  Howing  in  the  (lila  has  been  diverted  in  (rraham  Countv, 
so  that  the  (iila,  for  muc-h  of  the  year,  is  dry.  Our  water  storage  is 
absolutelv  essential,  not  only  for  the  preservation  of  the  farming 
interests  in  Pinal  County,  but  for  the  preservation  of  the  Indians. 
There  is  some  mining  in  Pinal  County.  The  famous  Silver  King 
mine,  which  was  operated  in  an  early  day,  and  from  which  there  was 
extracted  in  the  neighborhood  of  $!:),«JO0,600,  is  situated  in  that  county. 
It  is  not  now^  worked  on  account  of  the  low  price  of  silver  and  the  fact 
that  the  rich  ores  have  been  taken  from  the  mine. 

Q.  Who  are  the  owners  of  that  mine  ^  — A.  It  is  a  company,  and  I 
am  not  able  to  tell  you  who  the  leading  stockholders  now  are.  The 
principal  office  of  the  company  is  in  San  Francisco, 

Q.  Take  the  mines  of  the  Territory,  without  reference  to  their  value 
on  account  of  their  metal,  liut  with  reference  to  their  possible  output, 
what  is  the  proportion  of  gold,  silver,  and  copper  mines  ^— A.  The 
value  in  dollars  I  presume  is  what  you  mean? 

Q.  No,  sir;  that  is  not  what  I  mean.  I  mean  in  bulk  output;  that 
is  to  say,  are  the  larger  proportion  of  the  mines  in  output  gold,  or 
silver,  or  copper?  What  is  the  proportion — I  mean  to  say,  what  is  the 
proportion  of  the  mineral  w^ealth  of  the  Territory,  not  in  dollars,  as  it 
might  fluctuate  from  time  to  time,  ))ut  in  the  product  of  the  metal? — 
A.  Of  course  copper  is  the  principal  product  of  our  mines. 

PRODUCTION    OF    COPPER. 

We  rank,  as  I  remember  it,  next  to  Michigan  no^v  in  production  of 
copper.     Montana  is  first,  Michigan  second,  and  Arizona  third. 

Q.  What  is  the  greatest  of  the  copper  mines  down  here? — A.  I 
think  the  Copper  Queen,  at  Bisbee.  is  the  largest.  The  production  of 
copper  is  increasing  in  Arizona  more  than  in  Michigan  or  Montana. 

Q.  Is  the  Copper  Queen  Senator  Clark's  mine? — A.  No,  sir;  it  is 
not;  that  is  the  Phelps,  Dodge  &  Co.  mine.  The  next  is  the  United 
Verde,  which  is  in  this  county,  and  which  is  the  Clark  property.  The 
United  Verde  mine  is  perhaps  the  most  proiitable  mine  in  the  Terri- 
tory, inasmuch  as  the  percentage  of  preci(nis  metals  exceeds  that  of 
anv  other  copper  mine  in  the  Territory. 

Q.  As  a  by-product?— A.  Yes,  sir;  "it  carries  gold  and  silver.  Its 
production,  as  I  remember  it,  was  something  in  the  neighborhood  of 
4:(»,U(»U,0()0  pounds  of  copper  last  year.  The  ranking,  after  the  United 
Verde— I  should  say  that  the  Arizona  Copper  Company's  mines  at 
Bisbee  rank  next. 

Q.  Who  are  the  chief  owners  of  that  ^— A.  It  is  owned  by  a  Scotch 
company.  Mr.  Colquohoun  is  the  general  manager.  Phelps.  Dodge 
&  Co.  have  properties  at  Bis1)ee  which  are.  very  productive.  There  is 
another  company,  the  Shannon  Copper  Company  mines,  a  new  com- 
pany which  promises  to  be  a  large  producer.  In  addition  to  these 
mines,  we  have  the  Old  Dominion,  at  CTlo])e.  and  the  Black  Warrior, 
and  some  other  properties  which  produce  much  property. 


126  NEW    STATEBOOD    BILL. 

Q.  Without  going  into  the  details  of  the  mines,  can  you  pass,  in  a 
general  way,  to  the  silver  and  gold? — A.  Now.  copper  is  the  principal 
product,  both  in  (juantity  and  value,  of  course. 

PRODUCTION    OF    GOLD. 

Q.  Next  give  us  the  production  of  the  gold  mines.— A.  The  pro- 
duction of  the  gold  mines  in  the  last  year  practically,  as  near  as  can 
be  ascertained,  was  between  S3,000,o6()  and  §i,00<),00(».  There  were 
but  one  or  two  silver  properties  that  were  worked  for  their  silver  alone. 
Silver  was  a  by-product,  and  so  gold  and  coppei  are  the  metals  which 
are  mined  bv  the  properties  operated.  The  silver  is  a  by-product  except 
in  one  or  two  properties  in  Mojave  County.  That  is  the  county  which 
lies  to  the  northwest  of  this  county,  over"  toward  the  Colorado  River, 
and  is  essentially  a  mountain  region.  There  are  very  valuable  gold 
discoveries  there^new  discoveries,  practically.  I  should  say  that  the 
value  of  copper  would  be  fifteen,  the  value  of  gold  would  be  four,  the 
value  of  silver  would  be  one  and  a  half. 

Q.  The  silver  mines  are  such,  where  the  silver  is  not  produced  as  a 
by-product  of  the  other  mines,  but  the  essentially  silver  mines  are  not 
worked  on  account  of  the  fact  that  its  low  price  makes  it  not  profit- 
able i — A.  Yes,  sir. 

PRODUCTION    OF    SILVER. 

Q.  What  is  your  judgment  as  to  the  silver-producing  area  in  the 
Territory  as  a  mining  proposition? — A.  It  is  comparatively  limited  as 
compared  to  copper  and  gold. 

Q.  Is  there  any  prospecting  for  silver  down  there  now? — A.  There 
is  little  or  none. 

Q.  The  prospecting  is  chiefly  for  gold?— A.   Yes,  sir;  and  copper. 

By  Senator  Dillinc4HAm: 
Q.  1  did  not  understand  your  statement  as  to  the  proportions.— A. 
I  mean  to  sav  this:  That  "in  proportion  of  15  to  4  would  be  the 
proportion  of  copper  to  gold.  In  other  words,  if  you  had  fifteen  mil- 
lions in  copper  you  would  have  four  millions  in  gold  and  one  and  a 
half  millions  in  silver.  I  did  not  mention  Yuma  County,  which  is  in 
the  southwestern  portion  of  the  Territory,  and  there  are  some  very 
valuable  gold  mines,  notably  the  Fortuna,  King  of  Arizona,  and  some 
others,  representing  a  large  production  of  gold.  About  Yuma  there 
is  considerable  irrigation.  The  water  is  taken  from  the  Colorado 
River  and  applied  to  the  land  lying  in  the  bottoms  and  adjacent  to  the 
river — on  both  sides  of  the  river,  the  California  side  and  the  Arizona 
side — and  very  large  irrigation  works  are  contemplated,  and  will  per- 
haps be  put  in  operation  in  a  comparatively  short  time.  The  land  is 
very  fertile.  The  climate  is  hot,  to  be  sure,  but  it  is  healthful,  and 
the" works  are  such  as  bring  in  a  good  class  of  people,  and  there  is  no 
reason  to  believe  that  farming  will  not  be  quite  an  industry  in  Yuma 
County.  In  Pima  County  the  stock  interest  is  quite  large  as  well  as 
the  mining,  and  in  Cochis'e  County,  w^hich  is  the  extreme  southeastern 
countv  of1:he  State,  that  is  perhaps  the  greatest  mining  section  of  the 
Southwest.  We  have  Tombstone,  Pierce,  Bisbee,  and  other  districts 
that  are  producing  very  largely  both  in  copper,  gold,  and  silver,  and 
on  the  ])order  new  tow'n-s  h^rve  sprung  up  as  the  result  of  the  develop- 


•NEW  statp:h()od  hill.  127 

ment  of  the  copper  mines  in  Cochise  County  and  Sonora.  We  have 
Doug-las  and  Nico.  The  town  of  Douglas  is  not  over  two  years  old, 
but  the  vote  was  six  or  seven  hundred  this  year.  That  is  the  smelting 
point  for  the  Bisbee  mines  and  some  of  the  mines  in  Sonora,  owned 
by  Phelps,  Dodge  &  Co. 

NO    COAL    MINED. 

B}^  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  Is  there  any  coal  mining-  in  this  Territory  ? — A.  There  is  no  coal 
mined  in  this  Territory.  There  is  said  to  be  some  coal  in  Graham 
County  that  has  not  been  developed.  There  is  said  to  be  a  great  deal 
of  coal  in  Apache  County,  in  the  Navajo  Reservation,  which  is  a  part 
of  the  Gallup  coal  fields.  That  is  not  available,  and  has  never  been 
opened.  Outside  of  those  two  places  I  know  of  no  coal  in  the  Terri- 
tory. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  In  vour  trial  of  causes  in  the  Territorial,  or  Federal  courts  either, 
throughout  the  Territory,  I  assume  that  you  have  not  had  occasion 
very  often  to  have  recourse  to  an  interpreter  in  your  courts? — A. 
Except  in  cases  where  we  have  had  Mexican  witnesses.  In  the  trial 
of  criminal  causes  we  frequently  have  need  for  a  Spanish  interpreter. 

Q.  To  interpret  the  testimony  of  witnesses  to  the  jury  and  to  the 
court? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

knowledge    of    ENGLISH    REQUIRED    OF   JURORS. 

Q.  And  the  arguments  of  counsel? — A.  Never,  sir;  never.  The 
statute  of  the  Territory  forbids  the  acceptance  of  any  man  as  a  juror 
who  does  not  understand  the  English  language. 

Q.  ^o  that  dispenses  with  an  interpreter  save  where  a  native  or 
Spanish-speaking  witness  testifies? — A.  Yes,  sir;  or  where  the  defend- 
ant who  is  put  upon  trial  who  is  incapable  of  understanding  or 
speaking  the  English  language. 

Q.  If  there  is  anything  you  would  like  to  speak  further  about,  we 
would  be  glad  to  liear  it,— A.  In  the  first  place,  our  statutes  make  it 
very  easy  for  the  best  citizens  to  get  excused  from  our  juries.  The 
exemption  statutes  are  very  liberal,  and  our  statutes  as  to  the  qualili- 
cations  of  jurors  are  liberal;  so  that  among  our  best  citizens  many 
avoid  jury  duty;  yet,  notwithstanding  that,  1  can  say  that  the  average 
of  our  juries  is  fully  up  to  what  you  would  find  in  the  Middle  States. 
I  am  not  familiar  with  juries  in  the  far  East,  Imt  in  Ohio  and  Indiana, 
and  in  that  section,  but  so  far  as  intelligence  is  concerned,  and  the 
disposition  to  do  what  is  right. 

THE    LIQUOR   BUSINESS   AND    CRIME. 

Q.  The  committee  observed  the  nature  of  the  anuisements  on  the 
streets  here.  Do  anv  crimes  come  before  your  courts  that  grow  out 
of  this  state  of  affairs?  -A.  Well,  of  course,  we  do  have  a  good  deal 
of  crime  that  grows,  necessarily,  out  of  what  is  ordinarily  termed  the 
liquor  business,  the  liquor  traffic;  as  you  will  find  it  in  the  States,  and 
wherever  there  is  free  access  to  whisky;  but  there  is  comparatively 


128  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.' 

little  crime  in  the  town — this  place  and  Jerome,  for  instance,  the 
larger  towns.  It  is  astonishing-  how  little  there  is  in  the  way  of  crime 
of  a  serious  nature.  Drunl\enness  is  not  as  frequent  as  you  would 
expect.  Nearly  every  man  drinlvs,  but  it  is  not,  as  a  rule,  drinking 
that  you  would  tind  in  many  s(>ctions  of  the  country  where  you  have 
habitual  drunkenness.  Men  seem  to  be  capable  of  drinking  more 
here,  and  liolding  their  own;  while  there  is  some  crime  that  is  con- 
nected with  drinking  and  drinking  results,  assaults  and  crimes  of  that 
nature.  There  are  no  crimes  against  property,  but  crimes  against  the 
person.  I  can  sa}^  however,  that  in  this  district  at  this  time  there  are 
no  pending  cases  of  murder,  which  is  unusual,  to  be  sure,  but  it  hap- 
pens to  be  the  case.  There  are  a  good  many  cases  which  have  been 
tried  during  the  last  two  or  three  months  of  assault  with  intent  to 
commit  mui'der,  assault  with  deadly  weapon,  and  aggravated  assault, 
but  no  murders. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

F.  A.  Tritle,  called  as  a  witness  by  the  committee,  first  having 
been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

B}^  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Please  state  your  name  and  age  to  the  committee. — A.  F.  A. 
Tritle;  I  will  be  TO  in  next  August. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  the  Territor}^? — A.  i  came  down 
here  in  ISSO. 

Q.  You  were  supervisor  of  the  census  for  the  Territory? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  about  how  many  enumerators  vou  had  under 
you?— A.   Well,  about  KM). 

.  Q.  You  appointed  those  enumerators,  did  you  not^ — A.  Yes,  sir; 
except  those  that  were  connected  with  the  Indian  Department;  they 
were  suggested  by  the  Commission. 

Q.  You  had  a  prettv  thorough  knowledge  of  the  Territory'? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  I  w^as  governor  here  prior  to  that  time,  and  knew  more  about 
it  in  that  w^ay  than  I  did  in  connection  with  the  census.  I  did  not  go 
about  the  Territory  any,  as  far  as  the  census  was  concerned. 

Q.  You  did  not  need  to;  you  knew  it? — A.  Well,  the  people  that 
were  appointed  did  that. 

Q.  So  that  you  were  peculiarly  qualified  by  I'eason  of  your  acquaint- 
ance with  the  Territory  to  select  the  enumerators? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You,  in  common  with  all  of  the  enumerators,  took  the  oath — the 
customary  oath  to  take  the  census  accurately  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  was  done,  was  it? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  to  the  extent  pos- 
sible. You  know,  as  a  matter  of  course,  tliat  Arizona  covers  a  great 
deal  of  ground,  and  the  area  is  great,  and  necessarily  some  v\  ere  missed 
that  we  would  not  come  in  contact  with;  but  they  were  supposed  to 
take  them  all.  and  the  presumption  is  that  they  did  it  as  successfullv 
as  it  could  be  done  in  a  country  like  this. 

THE    CENSUS    SUBSTANTIALLY    CORRECT. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  I  understand  you  to  say  that  the  result  of  the  census  was  sub- 
stautiallv  correct? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


NEW    STATEH<X)D    BILL.  129 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Of  course  the  census  records  will  show  at  Washington,  l)ut  how 
many  interpreters  did  you  use? — A.  I  could  not  tell  you  that  now. 
The  returns  were  made  that  I  made,  too.  and  that  shows;  the  data 
that  they  got  oives  everything-  of  that  sort. 

Q.  The  people  to  whom  you  refer  as  having  been  possibly  omitted 
were  prospectors,  and  the  like ^ — A.  Yes,  sir;  possibly  not  a  xevy  great 
many  here  now.  As  a  matter  of  course,  take  this  area,  a  country  that 
is  not  densely  populated,  and  you  would  miss  some  persons  that  were 
out  through  the  country,  but  substantially  the  census  would  be  pre- 
sumed to  be  correct.     It  was  done  in  the  summer. 

LEAVE  THE  TERRITORY  DURIXG  THE  HEATED  TERM. 

There  is  this  to  be  said  with  regard  to  the  heated  portion,  the 
extraordinarily  heated  portion  of  the  Territory,  that  a  good  many 
people  during  the  summer  were  absent,  and  during  the  time  that  the 
census  was  taken,  possibly;  so  that  there  might  be  a  few  more  people 
than  the  census  Avould  show. 

Q.  Absent  where? — A.  Well,  they  would  go  off  to  where  it  was 
cooler. 

Q.  You  mean  outside  of  the  Terr itor}^? — A.  Yes,  sir.  For  instance, 
you  take  this  country  when  vou  get  down  south  in  the  summer,  it 
would  l>e  extremely  warm. 

Q.  That  would  be  people  of  permanent  homes,  and  sufficient  means 
to  go  outside  of  the  Territoiy? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  your  enumerators  had  the  data  to  take  those? — A.  No,  sir; 
they  would  not  be  taken. 

Q.  If  a  man  was  absent  and  had  sufficient  means  and  substance  to 
go  away  from  his  home  in  the  heated  term,  and  had  his  home,  or  ranch, 
wouldn't  there  1)e  anybody  there? — A.  He  would  have  to  answer  for 
himself;  and  if  he  was  outside  of  the  Territory  at  the  time  the  enu- 
merator went  to  his  place,  he  would  not  be  on  the  roll. 

Q.  How  many  would  you  say  there  were  of  them? — A.  I  would  not 
have  an}'  idea  of  that. 

Q.  It  would  be  limited,  would  it? — A.  Yes,  sir;  although  some  of  the 
sections  claim  there  was  a  good  man}^  people  absent.  You  will  come 
in  contact  with  them  when  3^ou  get  to  Phoenix,  and  those  places  that 
were  hot,  and  they  claim  the}^  had  a  good  many  more  people  than  were 
returned. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Julius  N.  Rodenberg,  called  as  a  witness  b}^  the  committee  and 
first  having  been  dul}'  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Julius  N. 
Rodenberg. 

Q.  And  your  age? — A.  I  was  born  in  1849 — that  makes  53. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  the  Territory? — A.  Since  1870. 

Q.  You  were  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  was  your  district  located? — A.  From  Prospect  down  to 
the  line  of  the  county. 

H  s  B 9 


ISO  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  You  took  an  oath,  did  you  not,  to  take  your  enumeration  and  to 
take  it  accuratelv  and  faithfull}'  'i — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  do  so? — A.  I  tried  to  do  so,  as  near  as  I  could,  but  it 
was  such  a  large  district  and  mixed  population. 

POPULATION  SO  PER  CENT  WHITE. 

Q.  What  was  the  nature  of  the  population? — A.  Eig-hty  per  cent 
white,  and  the  others  natives  and  Indians. 

Q.  The  natives  came  under  you? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  use  an  interpreter  in  taking  their  enumeration  ? — A.  No, 
sir;  I  did  not  need  it.  I  talk  four  or  five  different  languages,  and 
among  them  Spanish. 

Q.  In  taking  the  census  of  the  natives  you  used  the  Spanish  lan- 
guage?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  the  nature  of  the  occupations  of  the  people  in  your 
district,  3"our  census  district? — A.  In  the  valleys  all  farming  and  stock 
raising,  and  in  the  mines,  such  as  Octave  and  Congress,  principally 
mining. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

William  S.  Marts,  called  as  a  witness  and  first  having  been  duly 
sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  You  mav  state  vour  name  to  the  committee. — A,  William  S. 
Marts. 

Q.   You  reside  here? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  were  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  territory  did  your  district  cover? — A.  I  took  everything 
south  of  this  street. 

Q.  In  this  city? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q,  Do  you  remember  about  the  number  of  people  in  your  district? — 
A.  Well,  about,  I  think — I  think  something  like  two  thousand  or 
more;  I  remember  my  pay  check  was  sixt3^-two  or  sixty-three  dollars, 
at  3  cents  a  head. 

Q.  Did  3'ou  make  an  accurate  report  and  a  thorough  enumeration? — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  I  never  skipped  a  man,  woman,  or  child  that  I  could  find. 

Q.  This  was  a  city  population? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  What  was  the  nature  of  the  population,  American  or  Mexican? — 
A.  Well,  I  ran  up  against  white  people,  Mexicans,  and  Chinamen,  and 
I  should  judge  that — well,  about  four-fifths  of  them  were  white  and 
the  balance  about  equalh"  divided  between  Mexicans  and  Chinese. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

E.  B.  MoDEN,  called  as  a  witness  and  first  having  been  duly  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

B}^  the  Chairman: 
Q.  You  may  state  j^our  name  to  the  committee.  — A.  E.  B.  Moden. 
Q.  You  are  the  city  clerk  here? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  131 

LICENSE    SYSTEM    FOR   DRINKING    HOUSES,    DANCE    HALLS,  AND   RESORTS. 

Q.  The  committee  wants  to  iiKiuire  of  you  as  to  the  license  system 
with  respect  to  the  drinking  houses  and  dance  halls  and  other  resorts 
here,  as  to  the  character  of  it  and  how  much  it  is  per  months — A.  Do 
yon  want  it  separate  'i 

Q.  Yes,  sir;  just  state  it  in  the  briefest  possible  form,  separately. — 
A.   Well,  we  have  other  licenses  besides  dance  halls  and  saloons. 

Q,  Well,  g-o  ahead  and  give  the  whole  thing. — A.  It  is  about  $6,000 
a  quarter. 

Q.  You  mean  for  the  whole  thing.  For  each  place,  say,  how  is  it? — 
A.  For  a  saloon  it  is  $20  a  quarter,  three  months.  The  total  license 
collected  in  the  city  for  one  quarter — the  licenses  are  collected  quar- 
terly^, and  that  is  about  the  amount,  $6,000. 

Q.  Now,  go  ahead  and  analyze  it  as  to  what  they  were  for. — A. 
Well,  saloons,  |20  a  quarter:  games  of  chance,  $15;  general  merchants, 
stores,  their  license  is  according  to  their  gross  receipts;  some  pa}"  $20 
a  quarter,  some  pay  $12,  some  $6;  $6  is  the  lowest.  The  dance  halls 
are  $10  a  night.  Kestaurants  are  $6  a  night;  hotels  and  restaurants, 
$10. 

Q.  What  do  you  mean  by  hotels  and  restaurants  ( — A.  That  is  where 
the  hotel  has  a  restaurant  with  the  hotel.  Refreshment  business,  such 
as  soda  water  fountains  and  ice  cream  parlors,  are  $6  a  quarter. 

Q,  Are  there  any  other  licenses  with  the  liquor  business? — A. 
Count}^  licenses. 

Q.  1  am  not  speaking  of  that,  but  the  occupations,  the  business. — 
A.  No,  sir. 

Q.   What  do  dance  halls  include!' — A.  Just  the  dancing  in  the  hall. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  I  was  told  last  evening  that  the  games  paid  a  dollar  a  day  for 
each  game. — A.  They  pay  a  dollar  and  a  half;  they  pay  a  dollar  to  the 
county  and  50  cents  to  the  city. 

NO    SUNDAY  CLOSING. 

By  the  Chairman; 

Q.  l^esterday  being  Sunday,  and  it  being  right  here  on  the  open 
street,  the  committee  could  not  help  but  observe  that  the  saloons, 
games  of  chance,  and  dance  halls  were  running.  Your  law  permits 
that  on  Sunday  as  well  as  any  other  day  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  there  any  other  form  of  license?  Is  nothing  else  licensed? — 
A.   Well,  in  fact,  all  businesses  are  licensed, 

Q.  What  is  the  fact  as  to  the  ordinance  here  concerning  any  other 
form  of  w^hat  is  known  as  vice  outside  of  drinking ;' — A.  In  regard  to 
the  women  particularly,  there  is  none  that  I  know  of.  There  is  a 
regulation  requiring  an  examination  by  phj^sicians.  They  are  exam- 
ined twice  a  week  by  the  city  physician — the  city  health  officer,  rather. 

Q.  And  in  case  of  failure  to  observe  that  regulation  they  are  fined, 
are  they? — A.  Y^es,  sir;  there  is  a  fine  attached  to  it. 

Q.  The  city  derives  its  revenue  from  that  business  in  that  way,  does 
it? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

And  here,  at  the  hour  of  11  o'clock  a.  m.,  the  committee  arose  to 
proceed  to  Phoenix  to  hear  further  testimony  at  that  city. 


132  .  new  statehood  bill. 

Adams  Hotel, 

Phoenix,  Ariz.,  Tuesday,  Noveinher  18,  1902—2  j^.  iii. 
Benjamin  A.  Fowler,  selected  as  one  of  the  persons  to  make  a 
statement  to  the  committee  on  behalf  of  the  admission  of  Arizona  Ter- 
ritory as  a  State,  appeared  before  the  committee  and  first  having  been 
duly  sworn  made  the  following-  statement: 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Please  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is  Ben- 
jamin A.  Fowler. 

The  Chairman.  The  committee  will  be  glad  to  hear  you  with  refer- 
ence to  this  Territory,  its  resources,  people,  etc.,  with  respect  to  this 
question  of  statehood. 

Mr.  Fowler.  At  a  very  late  hour  last  night  I  was  requested  to 
■appear  before  the  committee  to  represent  the  people  here  in  a  general 
way.  It  is  a  pleasure  as  well  as  an  honor.  In  thinking  the  matter 
'Over  I  have  thought  that  you  were  loaded  down  with  statistics  of  all 
kinds.  You  have  the  reports  of  the  governors  of  the  Territory,  the 
present  governor,  and  his  predecessor.  You  have  had  other  printed 
matter,  and  you  have  heard  Hon.  Mark  Smith  dilate  upon  Arizona 
and  its  greatness  and  resources,  and  I  have  thought  that  it  was  not 
as  much  statistics  as  other  things  that  you  want  to  hear  from  me. 

I  am  not  an  old  resident  here.  Judge  Kibbey  has  been  here  fifteen 
years.  He  has  been  on  the  United  States  bench  and  practicing  law 
here  for  that  length  of  time.  Now,  my  residence  here  has  covered  a 
period  of  four  years.  I  came,  originaUy,  from  New  England,  not  far 
from  our  friend  Senator  Burnham  and  our  friend  Senator  Dillingham, 
but  perhaps  1  would  look  at  the  question  here  a  little  different  from 
one  who  is  native  ])orn.  I  have  thought,  for  instance,  that  you  would 
not  care  to  have  us  go  into  the  area  of  the  Territory  very  much, 
although  it  is  an  intercj  ting  point  to  keep  in  mind  in  that  connection 
that  we  could  put  some  twelve  New  Hampshires  in  area,  or  Vermonts, 
or  one  hundred  Rhode  Islands  and  have  room  left. 

area  not  a  basis  for  statehood. 

It  is  not  the  area  that  should  ))e  the  basis  of  statehood.  I  might  tell 
you  that  we  have  the  largest  pine  forests  in  the  United  States,  as  was 
remarked  to  the  chairman  this  morning.  We  have  thought  and  we 
think  that  we  have  the  finest  granite  in  the  United  States. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Where  does  that  forest  track  lie  ? — A.  Over  to  the  northwest. 

Q.  What  railroad  does  it  touch? — A.  Neither  one. 

Q.  Where  is  it? — A.  It  is  between  the  Santa  Fe  on  the  north  and 
the  Southern  Pacilic  on  the  south.  There  is  a  little  branch  at  Williams 
that  runs  down  into  it. 

Q.  How  far  is  it  from  the  railroad?— A.  The  railroad  on  the  north 
is  very  near  the  edge  of  it.  The  railroad  on  the  south  I  should  say 
is  within  50  miles  or  100  miles — 50  miles  certainly.  The  statistics  I 
■did  not  think  worth  while  to  bring  with  me,  but  there  are  a  few  others 
that  I  think  it  would  ))e  well  to  bring  out.  For  instance,  the  fact  of 
the  development  of  this  Territory.  Now,  that  is  very  great.  The 
development  of  this  Territory  strikes  the  Eastern  man  as  simply 
wonderful. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  lo3 

CAPITAL    AND   IMMIGRATION    COMING. 

It  does  not  impress  a  strang-er  so  much  as  it  does  after  he  has  lived 
here  a  while.  The  amount  of  capital  that  is  coming-  in  here,  the  rail- 
roads being-  built,  the  development  of  the  mining-  country  is  the 
greatest  tlmt  has  ever  been  in  this  district.  And  the  immigration  in 
this  Territory  is  steady.  It  is  an  immigration  of  a  better  class  of 
people  than  originally  came  from  year  to  3'ear.  Perhaps  that  is 
because  the  people  in  the  East  are  getting-  better  and  better,  and  these 
people  that  are  coming  down  here  are  making-  a  class  of  citizens  that 
are  of  a  very  high  tj^pe. 

Now,  in  that  connection,  I  maj^  speak  of  another  thing  that  is  inter- 
esting-, and  that  is  as  370U  have  seen  here,  and  to  a  stranger  from  the 
East  I  have  heard  it  repeated  over  and  over  again — the  fact  of  having 
such  modern  conveniences,  electric  railroads  and  street  cars,  the  safety 
of  life  and  property  here.  It  is  beyond  the  ordinary  understanding-  of 
an  Easterner.  I  think  I  remarked  about  a  retired  manufacturer  from 
the  East  who  came  here  to  see  his  daughter,  and  I  think  his  wife  made 
him  promise  not  to  go  out  of  the  hotel  after  night  and  not  to  leave 
the  important  streets  in  the  daytime.  He  says,  ""'I  have  been  here 
two  months,  and  I  go  out  at  all  times,  dtiy  and  night,  and  I  have  not 
seen  a  single  brawl,  and  as  for  drunkenness,  it  is  very  rare,  of  course.'' 
And  the  fact  is  that  this  city  has  but  two  night  policemen,  at  a  time 
when  it  would  seem  that  they  needed  more,  in  view  of  the  fact  that 
the  saloons  are  open  all  the  time.  As  a  fact,  I  feel  that  I  am  safer  in 
the  suDur))s  of  this  cit}^  than  I  would  be  in  the  suburbs  of  New  York 
or  Boston,  and  I  lived  there  most  of  my  life.  People  have  lived 
here  for  years  and  never  locked  their  houses.  Now,  in  that  connec- 
tion, I  might  speak  of  the  number  of  churches  that  there  are  in  the 
Territory.  That  is  an  index  to  the  character  of  the  people  and  the 
number  of  church  memljers. 

CHURCH   MEMBERSHIP. 

Now,  about  one-half  of  the  entire  population  of  the  Territory  are 
church  members. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Can  you  give  the  denominations  roughly? — A.  Yes,  sir.  There 
are  about  70,000  altogether,  church  members,  and  about  -10,000  of 
these  are  Catholics,  and  about  7,000  are  Mormons,  and  the  rest  divided 
among  the  other  denominations.  Then  there  is  another  point  that 
interests  the  Easterner,  and  that  is  the  interest  of  the  citizens  here  in 
education.  Now,  you  have  had  an  opportunity  to-day  to  see,  for 
instance,  our  school  buildings  here  in  Phoenix.  I  have  been  a  mem- 
ber of  school  boards  in  the  East,  and  a  teacher  for  ([uite  a  number  of 
years  in  my  younger  years,  and  1  think  I  can  testify  honestly  as  to  the 
character  of  the  schools  here.  The  buildings  are  very  convenient;  our 
people  have  no  desire  to  save  in  expense  whatever  in  the  construction 
of  buildings  and  in  the  purchase  of  any  apparatus  needed  in  the  school 
work. 

ILLITERACY. 

In  that  respect  and  along  that  line  I  may  speak  of  the  percentage  of 
illiteracy  here  as  agreeably  low.  I  do  not  know  that  there  are  any 
reliable  statistics,  but  the  best  statistics  that  I  can  o-et  an  idea  at  was 


134  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

b}'  reliiible  authorities  as  low  as  2  per  cent  and  as  high  as  8  per  cent, 
and  I  think  4  per  cent  would  be  a  fair  per  cent  of  illiterac}'  in  Ari- 
zona. That  is  accoiuited  for  by  several  thing-s.  One  is  that  the  for- 
eign element  in  Arizona  is  small.  Another  is  that  the  influx  of  people 
from  the  East  are,  in  nearly  all  cases  that  have  come  down  under  my 
notice,  there  is  not  an  exception  but  that  the}'  are  educated  people  of 
more  than  average  education. 

You  would  be  surprised  to  g*o  out  in  the  country  here  and  into  the 
mining-  districts  and  see  the  number  of  college  men  and  university  men; 
the  people  scattered  over  here.  1  remember  particularly  I  was  out 
to  a  mining'  property  and  I  saw  a  young  man  reclining  under  the  shade 
near  the  windlass.  He  was  working  the  windlass  and  while  they  were 
tilling  the  bucket  at  the  Ijottom  of  the  shaft  he  was  reading,  and  1  said: 
''Young  man,  what  have  you  there?"  and  he  held  up  a  book  in  the 
original  Greek.  I  think  I  have  said  enough  on  that  subject.  I  might 
give  you  iUustration  and  illustration  on  that  line.  Our  teachers  are 
nearly  all  Easterners.  The  principal  of  our  schools,  the  superintend- 
ent of  our  schools  are  men  of  mental  life  from  the  East. 

CHARACTER   AND   INTELLIGENCE   OF   PEOPLE. 

Then  there  is  another  reason  for  the  high  grade  of  character  and 
intelligence  of  our  people  here,  and  that  is  the  climate.  It  brings  to 
our  country  a  great  many  people  who  have  either  come  out  here  for 
their  health  or  have  come  here  for  the  winter  and  enjoyed  the  climate 
and  they  located  here.  We  have  a  great  many  citizens  who  came  out 
here  as  invalids  and  have  recovei'ed  their  health  and  appear  among  the 
most  active  and  influential  of  our  business  men.  That  accounts  in  a 
large  degree  for  the  high  grade  of  intelligence  and  the  low  grade  of 
illiteracy.  Now,  as  to  the  population,  we  have  a  very  small  negro 
population.  We  have  a  very  small  Mexican  population.  In  this 
countv  there  are  25,000,  and  I  think  the  Mexican  popidation  is  about 
1,000." 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  In  what  portion  of  the  State  is  the  Mexican  population? — A.  It 
would  he  in  the  southern — the  nearer  you  get  to  Mexico  the  more 
Mexicans. 

Q.  T^he  committee  thought  the}^  saw  a  large  number  of  Mexicans  at 
the  Congress  Mines  yesterda3\ — A.  Yes,  sir.  Now  I  come  to  the 
question  of  population.  The  census,  as  you  know,  gives  us  about 
122,000,  and  we  feel  that  the  census  worked  against  us  in  two  differ- 
ent ways,  and  I  think  the  grounds  that  are  taken  by  the  people 
are  very  just.  I  stand  as  one  who  wants  to  give  this  committee 
absolutely  exact  facts.  I  think  if  Arizona  is  not  worthy  of  statehood 
she  ought  not  to  have  it,  and  if  she  has  not  the  men  and  women  here  she 
is  not  worth}'  of  statehood.  It  is  not  green  grass  and  fat  cattle  that 
make  a  State.  They  are  elements,  but  what  makes  a  State  are  men  of 
intelligence  and  ability  and  men  of  character.  That  is  what  made 
New  England;  that  is  what  made  the  United  States,  and  what  is  going 
to  make  it  here  in  Arizona. 

•'the    new    ENGLAND    TYPE." 

I  used  to  talk  in  addresses  of  what  we  called  the  New  England  t3'pe 
and  that  it  went  out  into  the  Middle  West.     And  it  is  here.     You 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL,  135 

have  seen  it  here  this  inorniiig-  in  the  school  children.  You  saw  a  few 
negro  children  and  a  few  Mexicans,  but  the  great  bulk  of  them  were 
of  American  parentage.  I  was  ver}^  glad  indeed  to  have  the  com- 
mittee arrange  the  ride  in  such  a  way  that  you  could  see  them,  and  1 
stated  to  the  chairman  in  my  judgment  90  per  cent  of  those  children 
were  from  parents  who  came  from  east  of  Kansas  City,  and  in  talking 
to  a  business  man  at  noon  he  said,  "'"You  might  have  gone  further 
and  said  that  90  per  cent  of  the  parents  came  from  east  of  the  JNlissis- 
sippi  River,"  and  it  is  that  current  of  New  England  blood  that  came 
down  into  the  Territory  and  made  it  what  it  is.  You  know  that  the 
governor  in  his  report  claims  that  the  population  is  over  140,000,  I 
have  stated  in  Washington  that  it  was  over  150,000,  It  has  been  said 
in  Washington  that  it  was  over  175,000. 

POPULATION  150,000. 

My  idea  is  that  the  population  to-day  is  very  close  to  150,000,  Y"ou 
may  ask.  Why  did  the  census  give  us  only  122,000?  and  I  may  say, 
Wh}'  did  Phoenix  only  show  5,500?  You  have  only  to  know  of  the 
2,200  school  children  and  the  voting  population  of  over  2,000  to  find 
out  for  yourselves  whether  there  is  a  question  of  the  population  of 
5,500,  The  hot  season  began  here  in  May  and  the  people  began  to 
migrate  to  their  summer  homes  in  the  moimtains,  at  the  seashore  in  the 
East,  and  the  census  being  begun  in  June,  many  of  our  families  were 
gone.  I  was  never  taken.  One  of  the  cashiers  of  the  banks  was  not 
enumerated.  We  were  both  here,  and  1  do  not  know  why  we  were 
missed. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q,  What  do  you  think  the  population  is  here? — A,  Ten  thousand, 
Q.  Do  you  think  there  were  5,000  people  away  from  home  that 
summer? — A.  No,  sir,  I  brought  the  matter  up  in  the  board  of  trade, 
of  which  I  was  a  director,  and  am  now,  and  we  took  the  matter  up  and 
wrote  to  the  Director  of  the  Census  and  he  wrote  that  it  was  too  late 
for  him  to  do  anything,  but  that  we  could  take  the  census  for  our- 
selves if  we  wanted  to  and  compare  it  with  theirs.  That  was  in  July 
or  August  and  it  would  be  too  late  to  make  any  census  that  would  be 
a  good  and  fair  l)asis  for  a  comparison,  and  so  we  gave  it  up.  We  all 
knew  that  the  statement  of  the  Census  Bureau  would  go  out  to  the 
public  and  Phoenix  would  get  her  5,500  and  that  we  could  not  follow 
that  statement  all  over  the  world,  and  so  we  let  it  go.  There  is 
another  explanation  of  the  small  population  of  Arizona,  and  that  is  the 
enumeration  was  at  so  much  per  head. 

POPULATION    IS   SCATTERED. 

In  this  country  the  population  is  scattered,  and  you  get  out  into  the 
mountains  and  while  there  is  a  large  population  as  a  whole,  they  are 
far  apart  and  many  a  time  it  would  cost  an  enumerator  75  cents  or  $1 
to  earn  4  or  5  cents,  and  it  stands  to  reason,  and  we  think  it  is  very 
reasona])le,  that  the  enumeration  of  that  rural  population  was  fixed  up 
by  the  enumerators. 

Q.  Would  it  not  be  natural,  Mr,  Fowler,  for  a  census  enumerator 
to  get  the  names  of  eveiybody  he  possibly  could,  whether  from  them 
or  somebody  that  knew  about  them,  and  return  them,  thus  not  onh" 
swelling  his  compensation,  but  giving  the  better  account  of  his  Terri- 
tory than  the  reverse?     Is  it  not  the  usual  and  almost  universal  tend- 


136  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

encv  to  swell  the  returns  rather  than  to  diminish  them? — A.  I  should 
think  it  would  be,  naturally,  yes,  sir;  but  our  conditions  are  such  that 
when  you  get  out  into  the  mountains,  the  cattle  regions,  it  is  difficult 
and  expensive  to  get  out  into  the  different  sections  and  report  them. 
There  are  other  reasons,  perhaps,  but  that  is  enough,  in  our  judgment, 
to  make  up  for  quite  a  little  difference.  In  the  meantime  the  Terri- 
tory has  been  growing  steadily.  Take  Phoenix,  even  in  the  drought 
which  we  have  had  in  the  last  two  years,  and  you  gentlemen  have  seen 
what  that  has  been. 

GROWTH    IN    SPITE    OF    WAXT    OF   WATER, 

If  we  could  have  gone  over  there  with  you  this  morning  we  could 
have  shown  you  orchard  after  orchard  and  ranch  after  ranch  that  is 
dying  for  want  of  water.  In  spite  of  that  our  country  around  here 
has  been  growing  in  population.  And  the  territory  to  the  east  of  us,^ 
and  the  territory  to  the  west  of  us,  and  the  territory  to  the  north  of 
us  has  been  steadil}^  growing  also,  which  would  make  up  for  the  other 
25,000,  which,  in  iny  judgment,  should  be  added  to  the  population  of 
the  Territoiy.  Xow,  there  are  one  or  two  other  items  that  I  had  in 
mind.  These  are  rather  desultory  remarks  I  am  making  to  you  to-day. 
In  speaking  of  the  American  and  foreign-))orn  population.  I  was  rather 
proud  of  what  you  saw  in  the  court  room,  because  that  was  the  regular 
inspection  that  we  have  there.  Now,  the  interpreters  salary  in  that 
court  is  less  than  $100  a  year,  and  there  is  not  one  case  in  ten  in  civil 
cases  where  witnesses  are  Mexican — there  is  not  one  case  in  ten  where 
the  interpreter  is  called  in.  It  is  upon  such  statements  as  this  quality 
of  manhood  and  womanhood  of  this  Territory  that  I  should  base  all 
the  hopes  that  I  might  have  of  you  granting  Statehood  to  our  people. 
I  think  that  the  strongest  basis— the  strongest  thing  that  I  can  bring- 
forward  for  your  consideration.  I  might  go  into  the  material  wealth, 
but  you  know  that  the  material  assessed  value  of  the  Territory  is 
$39,000,000  or  $40,000,000.  Little  facts  like  one  given  to  me  by  a 
railroad  man  a  little  while  ago  concerning  the  freight,  the  freight 
and  passenger  receipts  at  the  little  town  of  Benson  have  been  as  high 
as  $160,000  a  month.  Take  it  in  Bowie,  the  freight  and  passenger 
receipts  have  been  as  high  as  SIO.OOO  a  month.  Take  it  at  Lordsburgv 
they  have  usually  200  or  300  cars  there. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  What  is  the  traffic  that  yields  such  results  as  that?— A.  The  min- 
ing interests  have  been  developed  south  of  Benson.  We  have  a  large 
district  of  mining  interests  from  Bisbee,  being  the  center,  and  you 
have  Tombstone. 

HISTORY    OF   TOMBSTONE. 

Tombstone,  a  while  ago,  was  down  to  a  half  a  hundred  people,  and 
beyond  Tombstone  to-day  they  are  laying  the  rails  and  ]Mr.  Gage  and 
Mr.  Frank  Murphy  are  rehabilitating  Tombstone.  It  had  one  great 
fall,  but  it  was  practically  abandoned  for  fifteen  or  sixteen  years,  and 
now  it  is  a  long  stoly  of  how  Mr.  Gage  found  they  were  pumping  all 
the  water  from  the  mines,  and  he  tried  to  make  an  arrangement  with 
all  the  other  miners  to  go  in  with  him  and  pump  the  water  out,  but 
they  would  not  do  it.  and  then  came  a  great  fire  and  burned  his  out 
and"^  then  the  water  flooded  the  other  mines,  and  now  this  company  has 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  137 

bought  all  of  them  in  and  they  are  to  be  worked  in  one  interest.  I 
should  make  some  reference  as  to  the  business  at  the  other  points, 
althoug"h  at  Bowie  you  approach  the  Gila  River  country,  which  is  one 
of  the  finest  in  the  country.  Over  at  Yuma  they  have  another  system 
of  irrigation.  Some  of  the  linest  land  in  all  of  the  United  States  is  in 
Yuma  and  the  water  is  being-  taken  from  the  Colorado  River.  Per- 
haps you  are  acquainted  with  the  report  of  Mr.  Davis,  the  engineer  of 
the  geolog-ical  survey,  which  has  opened  up  a  view  for  that  country 
that  sounds  like  an  Arabian  Nights'  tale. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  What  is  the  present  actual  development  there  in  irrigation  ^ — A. 
Very  little  from  the  Needles  down  ahuost  to  Y'uma,  and  the  fact  is  it 
would  take  a  very  large  amount  of  money  to  make  that  developiuent 
to  divert  that  water.  Mr.  Davis  told  me  that  something  like  a  million 
acres  of  land  could  be  irrigated  over  in  that  section  and  would  be  as 
soon  as  the  works  were  put  in.  Now,  in  connection  with  irrigation,  1 
want  to  say  just  a  word  with  reference  to  the  irrigation  in  this  valley. 
This,  as  you  know,  was  supposed  to  be  occupied  by  a  prehistoric  race. 

A   PREHISTORIC    RACE. 

It  was  supposed  that  long  ago  there  was  300,000  or  400,000  people 
in  this  valley,  but  that  prehistoric  canals  were  laid  on  engineering-  lines 
is  a  fact,  and  some  of  the  canals  to  day  lie  along  the  h'nes  of  those  old 
prehistoric  canals.  We  have  in  this  valley  one  of  the  lai'gest  irriga- 
tion systems  in  the  United  States.  AVe  have  here  over  i^()()  uiiles  of 
canals.  One  of  the  canals  that  we  did  not  drive  up  to  is  50  miles  long. 
We  have  over  900  miles  of  laterals  here  and  thousands  of  miles  of 
ditches.  The  water  is  taken  from  the  head  of  the  Arizona  Canal  and 
then  runs  across  on  the  other  side  on  Dr.  Chendes  Canal,  on  the  other 
side  of  the  river,  and  the  balance  comes  down  into  the  Maricopa  Land 
Grant  River  Canal. 

Q.  Below  the  dam  the  river  is  now  dry,  is  it  not? — A.  No,  sir;  not 
below  the  dam.  There  is  usually  a  stream  trickling  down  and  then  it 
disappears  altogether. 

Q.  So  that  a  mile  below  it  becomes  dry  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir.  You  g'o  out 
here  and  follow  this  avenue  south  to  the  river  and  you  come  to  a  dry 
bed,  and  in  the  great  flood  of  1891  the  water  came  up  to  the  hotel  and 
was  several  miles  wide. 

PLAN    FOR   BUILDING    A    RESERVOIR, 

Now,  it  is  our  hope  and  plan  to  interest  the  United  States  to  the 
extent  of  constructing-  for  us  a  reservoir  about  HO  miles  north  of 
east  of  here,  a  reservoir  that  will  impound  six  times  as  much  water  as 
any  other  irrigation  dam  in  existence.  That  is  not  the  bill  which  a 
comuiittee  of  Congress  has  reported  favorably,  but  it  is  the  enabling- 
act  authorizing-  this  county  to  issue  two  and  a  quarter  million  bonds. 
This  daiu  is  only  200  feet  acres  bottom  and  700  feet  long,  ])ut  it  gives 
us  a  reservoir  pretty  near  25  miles  long.  The  great  Wachuset  dam 
only  holds  200,000  acre-feet  of  water.  The  Croton  system  has  cost 
six  millions  and  is  not  completed  and  it  impounds  only  800,000  acre- 
feet.  For  not  exceeding  three  millions  there  can  be  built  up  here  a 
reservoir  that  will  impound  eight  times  as  much.  These,  engineers  tell 
me,  can  be  put  into  foundation  walls  in  the  mountains  and  it  is  only  65 


138  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

feet  to  the  bed  rock,  but  I  did  not  intend  to  go  into  that.  I  was  drawn 
into  that  incidentally,  havino-  given  a  gi'eat  deal  of  m}^  time  to  that  in 
the  last  few  years  and  to  bringing  to  us  what  seems  near  at  hand. 

The  success  of  this  valley  depends  absolutely  upon  irrigation  with 
the  water  that  conies  from  the  mountains.  If  we  have  an  insufficiency 
of  rainfall  or  snowfall  in  the  mountains,  we  have  an  insufficiency  of 
water  down  here. 

We  have  sunshiny  days  like  this,  as  the  boys  say,  three  hundred 
and  eighty-tive  days  in  the  year,  but  it  is  surprising  the  number  of 
beautiful  days,  like  this,  we  have. 

There  is  no  other  section  that  I  have  ever  been  w^here  we  have  as 
many  beautiful  days  as  we  have  here.  We  have  over  three  hundred 
days  in  the  year  when  the  sun  shines  like  it  does  to-day. 

RAINFALL. 

Down  here  everybodv  is  happy  when  they  see  the  clouds  coming 
and  the  rain  comes,  because  we  go  along  here  for  months  and  not  a  drop 
of  rain  falls.  The  volume  of  water,  of  course,  depends  on  the  snow- 
fall. The  Salt  River  has  about  6,500  of  miles  of  watershed  and  the 
Verde,  which  is  the  principal  tributary  of  the  Salt  River,  has  about 
6,000  square  miles  of  rainfall. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  Have  you  any  means  of  knowledge  about  the  annual  influx  of 
people  into  the  Territory? — A.  I  do  not  know  of  any  statistics  that  I 
could  refer  to.  My  judgment  has  been  made  up  from  observation 
and  from  correspondence,  and  in  coming  in  contact  as  I  have  in  a  bus- 
iness way  and  a  political  way — well,  I  have  not  gone  into  politics  here 
at  all  aside  from  the  fact  that  I  was  in  the  legislature  two  years  ago 
and  had  a  somewhat  extended  acquaintance  throughout  the  Territory, 
and  I  made  it  a  special  point  to  inquire  about  the  increase  of  popula- 
tion in  the  difi'erent  sections  of  the  Territory,  and  have  done  so  by 
correspondence  since,  and  1  base  my  judgment  upon  that  data.  That 
would  not  be  what  you  would  call  strictly  mathematical  and  reliable 
data  like  the  census. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  The  number  of  acres  actually  under  irrigation  is  what? — A.  I 
want  lirst  to  emphasize  to  the  committee  the  fact  that  w^hen  3'ou  talk 
about  275,000  acres  of  land  on  the  canals,  that  all  of  that  land  prac- 
tically, there  may  be  a  little— there  may  be  250.000  acres— that  takes 
out  s^ome  blocks  that  have  been  abandoned,  but  all  of  that  250,000 
acres  has  been  operated.  The  water  has  been  over  it.  This  last  year 
we  did  not  irrigate  in  this  valle.y  exceeding  90,000  acres.  Over 
90,000,  I  told  you,  to  100,000  acre's.  In  fact,  Mr.  Heard  thinks  it 
was  even  less  than  that  on  account  of  the  drought.  I  have  280  acres 
of  land  1  did  not  put  anv  water  at  all  on,  because  I  did  not  have  it. 

I  have  avoided,  gentlemen,  a  number  of  things  that  I  would  have 
said  to  you  individually,  because  they  were  personal  references.  I  feel 
delicate  about  going  into  the  matter  of  making  personal  references. 

PROPORTION    OF   RANCH   ACTUALLY   IRRIGATED. 

In  the  case  in  which  I  was  talking  to  the  chairman  about  my  ranch 
of  310  acres,  there  are  280  acres  that  I  have  not  put  any  water  on  for 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  139 

three  years,  and  140  acres,  about  that,  out  of  which  1  have  had  water 
enougli  to  cultivate  about  10  acres,  although  1  have  spread  out  over 
more  territory  than  that.  I  had  quite  a  considerable  acreage  of 
oranges  and  grai)es,  ])ut  I  wanted  to  save  them,  but  I  lost  them  in 
spite  of  everything  1  could  do. 

Q.  1  understand  that  the  reason  you  did  not  put  more  than  this  40 
acres  under  water  was  because  of  lack  of  waters — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  did 
not  put  more  than  40  acres  under  water  because  1  lacked  the  water, 
but  1  was  paying  for  100  acres  of  water.  The  contracts  are  worded 
that  the  waters  are  to  be  furnished  provided  it  is  in  the  river.  1  have 
covered  the  ground  that  it  seems  to  me  wise  for  me  to  develop,  leav- 
ing a  number  of  other  sul)jects  for  Judge  Kibbey.  As  1  say,  I  have 
been  here  for  four  years,  nearly,  not  quite.  I  came  in  contact  in  a 
somewhat  extended  way  with  the  citizenship  of  this  Territory  and  it 
is  a  great  pleasure  to  me  to  testify  before  this  committee  to  the  high 
order  of  intelligence,  character,  and  ability  that  we  have  in  this  Ter- 
ritory, and  I  keep  emphasizing  that  point,  because  as  I  have  said  to 
my  associates  in  this  comnumity,  that  if  we  do  not  have  a  true  basis 
for  statehood  we  do  not  deserve  statehood. 

There  is  flowing  through  the  veins  of  the  people  here  the  same  blood 
that  Hows  through  the  veins  of  the  people  of  the  East.  There  is  the 
same  patriotic  impulses  here  that  j^ou  find  in  the  East.  1  believe  that 
the  first  blood  shed  in  Cuba  in  the  Spanish  war  was  that  of  an  Arizona 
boy,  and  Arizona,  if  I  remember  riglit.  had  a  larger  per  capita  repre- 
sentation in  the  Army  during  the  war  with  Spain  than  ariy  State  in  the 
Union.  You  will  never  call  on  Arizona  that  the  call  will  not  be  met 
with  a  response  that  will  carry  pride  to  the  heart  of  all  our  people  all 
over  the  country. 

PEOPLE    FROM    EVERY    STATE    IN    ARIZONA. 

We  have  people  here  from  every  State  in  the  Union.  The  presi- 
dent of  the  New  York  society  told  me  this  noon  they  had  100  members 
in  their  society  here,  and  the  societies  of  other  States  have  more  than 
that,  some  of  them.  We  feel  that  we  have  been  in  a  degree  disfran- 
chised. We  are  pretty  near  the  United  States.  We  had  the  right  of 
franchise  in  the  East."  We  were  born,  some  of  us,  in  the  shadow  of 
Bunker  Hill,  (^ur  ancestors  fought  there  for  their  rights,  for  the 
right  of  no  taxation  without  representation.  It  is  in  the  hands  of  this 
conmiittee  to  say  whether  we  are  qualified  to  have  that  right  or  not. 
For  one,  I  am  content  to  leave  it  in  your  hands,  having  made  a  personal 
examination  and  investigation  of  the  subject  down  here,  which  1  think 
was  as  wise  a  move  as  this  conunittee  could  have  decided  upon.  I  am 
sorry  that  I  did  not  have  a  little  more  notice  of  this  in  order  that  I 
might  have  made  a  little  preparation. 

CHARACTER   OF   JUDICIARY. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  The  committee  would  like  to  know  your  opinion  of  the  judiciaiy 
of  the  Territory,  as  to  their  capacity  and  purity. — A.  The  judiciary 
of  this  Territory  stands  high,  gentlemen.  President  Roosevelt  said  to 
me,  there  is  one  thing  we  are  very  sure  of.  , Judge  Kent,  as  you  all 
know,  was  a  Harvard  man  and  a  friend  of  the  President,  and  Mr. 


140  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Lodo-e  and  Mr.  Roosevelt  said  to  me,  there  is  one  thing  that  we  are 
very  sure  of  and  that  is  that  Mr.  Kent  will  make  an  absokitel^y  honest 
judge.  There  is  no  judge  that  has  ever  come  into  this  Territory  that 
has  created  a  better  impression  and  gained  the  absokite  confidence  of 
the  people  than  Judge  Kent  has.  He  first  came  in  when  there  was 
irrigation  litigation  of  a  complicated  nature,  and  I  said  to  Mr.  Roose- 
velt, "I  am  afraid  Mr.  Judge  Kent  will  tackle  this  irrigation  question 
before  he  has  been  there  very  long,  and  I  am  afraid  that  he  can  not 
decide  them  rightly.  He  has  got  to  be  there  a  long  time  liefore  he 
can  take  them  in  and  absorli  them,"  and  so  far  in  all  his  rulings  and 
decisions,  he  has  in  a  remarkal)le  manner  enjoyed  the  confidence  of 
the  litigants  and  the  people  who  have  had  no  confidence  in  the  judges 
for  the  Territory  for  the  last  twenty  vears.  1  am  very  glad  to  testify 
to  that. 

Q.  Is  that  generally  true  of  the  present  judiciary? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I 
think  so.  I  have  onl}^  met  Judge  Kent  casually.  I  had  reason  to  send 
in  my  letters  of  introduction  to  him  from  Senator  Lodge,  who  is  a 
friend  of  mine  and  gave  me  letters  to  him.  Judge  Sloan  is  another 
man  who  stands  well  in  this  community  and  is  a  very  upright  gentleman. 

THE    BENCH    ABOVE    SUSPICION. 

I  do  not  believe  there  is  a  member  of  the  liench  to-day  in  Arizona  of 
whom  anyone  would  breathe  a  word  of  suspicion.  That  is  my  judg- 
ment as  a  common  citizen,  and  they  are  regarded  as  excellent  lawyers; 
but  there  are  difierent  grades.  The}'  ai'e  not  all  of  the  same  grade.  1 
want  to  say  just  this  one  word  more  regarding  what  we  saw  this  morn- 
ing. That,  so  far  as  I  can  observe,  you  saw  the  every-day  routine  of 
the  cour  troom  there.  I  have  been  in  a  number  of  times  simply  to  judge 
for  myself  as  to  the  way  Judge  Kent  presided  and  the  way  court  mat- 
ters were  handled,  and  I  have  been  very  much  impressed  with  the  dig- 
nity of  the  court,  with  the  fairness  of  the  decisions  of  the  court,  and 
the  mastery  of  the  situation  by  the  court.  Judge  Kent  is  not  a  man 
who  will  permit  himself  to  ))e  trifled  with  in  any  way.  1  may  say  the 
same  of  the  other  judge  of  whom  you  speak. 

It  is  ni}^  aim  and  desire  to  help  this  committee  in  every  way  that  I 
can.  and  I  think  it  is  the  desire  of  the  best  element  of  citizens  here  in 
the  Territory  to  simply  present  the  facts  to  j^ou  as  near  as  we  can  do 
so. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Joseph  H.  Kibbey,  first  having  been  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman  : 

Q.  State  3'our  name,  age,  and  how  long  you  have  lived  here  in  the 
Territory.— A.  M}  name  is  Joseph  H.  Kil)bev;  1  am  a  lawyer,  and  I 
have  lived  here  since  Mav,  1888.  In  this  valley  since  1803.  In  Pinal 
County  from  1888  to  1893. 

Q.  You  may  make  your  statements  as  you  desire. — A.  I  am  toler- 
ably well  acquainted  with  the  conditions  in  nearly  everj^  county, 
having  visited  them  on  many  occasions.  During  my  earlier  period  in 
the  Territory  I  was  on  the  bench,  holding  court  in  nearlv  all  the 
counties  of  the  Territorv  and  have  attended  court  in  nearl}^  all  the 
counties  since  that  time.     I  came  from  Indiana.     I  came  here  as  the 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  141 

attorney  for  the  promoter  of  the  canal  enterprise.  I  became  tolerably 
well  .satisfied  with  the  conditions  here  and  have  remained  here  ever 
since,  and  I  am  here  for  good  I  suppose. 

I  am,  of  course,  anxious  for  statehood  for  a  o-reat  many  reasons. 
Too  many  reasons  to  state  here.  We  think  W(^  are  entitled  to  it 
because  we  thiidv  ourselves  to  be  citizens  of  the  United  States,  and 
although  we  can  not  say  what  State — and  there  is  a  sentiment  connected 
with  it  that  makes  it  desirable,  not  only  a  sentiment,  but  there  is  a 
sentiment  that  very  materially  affects  our  material  prog-ress.  There 
seems  to  be  a  prevalent  opinion  among  the  people  in  the  East  that  the 
very  name  of  Territory  is  associated  with  the  idea  of  crudity  of  all 
sorts.  The  courts,  the  schools,  and  the  people  themselves,  individually 
and  collectively,  think  it  is  unsafe  both  to  persons  and  property; 
that  it  is  not  a  good  place  to  invest,  or  to  rear  or  take  children,  and  I 
know  of  no  way  of  eradicating  that  idea  unless  we  can  bring  people 
here  and  see  it.  Unless  we  can  say  we  are  not  a  Territory  ])ut  a  State, 
and  the  notion  of  our  Territorial  conditions  goes  when  we  become  a 
State.  The  people  of  the  East  have  a  prett}''  correct  notion,  in  a  gen- 
eral way,  of  a  new  country. 

THE    PEOPLE    COSMOPOLITAN. 

The  people  here  are  C(»smopolitan.  They  come  from  the  States. 
Nearly  all  of  the  varied  interests  are  represented.  It  may  be  said, 
I  think,  generally,  that  the  energetic  people  come  West.  I  will  not 
say  that  they  are  the  best,  but  they  are  energetic  at  any  rate.  They 
bring  with  them  the  habits  and  notions  and  prejudices  i'rom  their  old 
homes  and  apply  them  with  their  conditions  in  their  new  homes.  It 
is  not  necessary  for  me  to  refer  to  the  theory  of  the  government  of 
Territories  under  our  organic  act.  It  is  practically  the  same  in  all  of 
the  Territories  and  has  been  practicallj^  the  same  for  over  a  hundred 
years. 

THE    JUDICIAL    SYSTEM. 

We  do  not  like  our  judicial  system.  When  it  comes  to  that,  we  like 
to  avoid  it  if  we  can.  We  have  no  particular  objection  to  the  person- 
nel of  the  courts  as  they  are  established.  The  judges  are  appointed 
by  the  President  of  the  United  States,  b}-  and  with  the  advice  and 
consent  of  the  Senate,  but  the  complaint  does  not  arise  from  that. 
They  are  from  those  appointed  locally  or  those  sent  in  from  the 
outside. 

But  the  appellate  jurisdiction  is  vested  in  the  supreme  court,  which 
is  composed  of  all  the  judges,  who  are  also  the  trial  judges.  A  case 
is  tried  in  the  lower  courts,  and  when  it  is  appealed  it  comes  for  con- 
sideration to  a  court  composed  of  judges  who  sit  in  the  trial  courts. 
Of  course,  not  the  same  judge  who  sits  in  the  trial  of  the  case  origi- 
nally sits  in  the  hearing  on  appeal.  In  a  court  as  small  as  ours,  com- 
posed of  so  few  judges,  we  find  it  unsatisfactory.  There  has  been  a  com- 
plaint made  by  most  of  the  members  of  the  bar  and  most  of  the  judges 
themselves.  Of  course,  it  can  be  said  that  a  man  ought  to  be  large 
enough  or  big  enough  to  go  on  the  bench  and  review  a  case  that  he 
had  tried  and  do  it  honestly. 

Q.  1  understood  you  to  sa}'  that  the  particular  judge  who  tried  the 


142  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

ca.se  in  the  court  below  did  not  take  part  in  the  case  on  appeal? — A. 
No.  sir;  he  does  not.  Up  to  ten  years  ago  we  had  only  three  judges 
in  the  Territory,  and  the  judge  sat  who  tried  the  case,  and  they  all  sat; 
but  the  provision  of  the  law  now  is  tiiat  the  judge  who  tried  the  case 
below  is  disqualified  from  sitting  on  the  court  on  appeal  when  he  tried 
the  case  below.  That  was  our  complaint  of  the  system  until  it  was 
modified. 

Q.  You  are  not  complainitig  of  the  system  after  it  has  been  modi- 
fied?— A.  No,  sir.  I  do  not  think  it'  has  been  greatly  improved, 
although  that  particular  feature  of  it  has  been  removed. 

COURT   PROCEEDINGS    UP   TO   THE    STANDARD, 

Now,  the  court  proceedings  are  up  to  the  standard.  1  have  had  con- 
siderable experience  in  communities  of  this  size  in  Indiana  up  to  1888. 
I  knew  the  judges.  1  knew  some  of  the  judges  of  the  supreme  court. 
The  law  has  not  come  to  that  state  of  certainty  here  that  it  has  back 
there.  AVe  are  not  governed  by  precedents  in  our  own  Territory  as 
the  States  are  in  the  older  States.  Court  changes  with  each  change  of 
Administration,  and  our  judges  come  from  different  places  and  come 
from  these  different  States  with  different  ideas. 

Q.  Is  it  not  the  case  that  the  judges  usually  change  with  each  elec- 
tion in  most  of  the  States:!— A.  No,  sir;  the  practice  has  been  to 
change.     Now.  of  course,  there  has  been  a  constant  change  here. 

Q.  You  talk  about  the  changes  here  being  with  the  changes  of 
Administration.  Is  not  that  true  of  the  States  of  the  central  West? — 
A.  No,  sir;  if  a  party  succeeds  at  one  election,  then  it  is  one  judge  go 
in  and  the  other  judge  go  out,  and  he  is  taken  from  your  State  and 
is  familiar  with  the  laws  of  your  own  State.  Our  judges  have  until 
very  recently  been  sent  in  from  the  outside.  They  would  come  in 
from  California,  or  Texas,  or  Ohio,  and  they  come  with  their  ideas  of 
their  laws  from  those  States. 

Q.  Judge  Sloan  has  been  here  as  long  as  you  have,  has  he  not? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  universal  tendency  now  is  to  appoint  judges  locally? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  there  is  an  exception  in  the  case  of  Judge  Kent. 

Q.  What  have  you  to  say  about  the  tendency  of  the  court  that  we 
visited  this  morning? — A.  I  have  been  very  well  pleased  with  Judge 
Kent,  ))ut  that  ol)jection  applies  to  Judge  Kent.  Judge  Kent  was 
from  Maine,  originally,  and  practiced  law  in  New  York  and  came  to 
Colorado,  and  that  would  not  be  bad  at  all  if  there  was  any  perma- 
nence about  it. 

NO   DISPOSITION   TO    FOLLOW    PRECEDENTS. 

It  seems  to  have  lieen  the  result,  whatever  the  reason  for  it,  there  is 
greater  uncertainty  and  no  disposition  to  establish  and  follow  prece- 
dents. It  is  very  unusual  to  cite  an  Arizona  decision.  SVe  would 
cite  a  Massachuse^tts  decision  with  as  much  certainty  and  a  New  York 
decision  with  more  certainty  than  we  would  cite  an  Arizona  decision. 
Some  of  our  judges  came  from  Massachusetts  and  other  States  that  have 
laws  radicallv  different  from  those  of  Ohio  and  Indiana.  The  Aveight 
of  this  is  that  because  of  the  unfamiliarity  of  the  judges  with  the 
statutes  of    the  Territorv,   that  he  would   decids  a  case  where  the 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  143 

statutes  of  the  Territory  were  involved  without  a  sufBoient  knowledcre 
of  them.     I  would  not  ([uite  mean  that. 

Q.  What  would  you  mean^ — A.  I  would  mean  that  wherever  a  per- 
son receives  his  education  in  a  certain  system,  that  he  w^ould  follow 
that  system. 

Q.  What  would  you  say  was  the  system  in  any  State?  Do  you  think 
there  is  any  such  great  dissimilarity^ — A.  Yes,  sir.  For  instance,  we 
take  our  code  from  the  code  of  Texas.  It  was  a  peculiar  code,  one  of 
the  briefest  that  any  State  has  had.  The  Texas  code  w  as  supplemented 
by  a  long-  statement  of  rules,  but  in  our  codification  of  1887  we  adopted 
that  code,  which  was  incomplete  in  itself,  l)ut  we  did  not  adopt  the 
rules,  and  we  w^ere  left  unsettled  as  to  what  we  should  do.  At  that 
time  our  judges  and  a  great  many  of  the  bar  came  from  California, 
and  they  came  with  Californian  notions  of  practice.  California,  it  is 
true,  is  supposed  to  be  modeled  after  New  York,  bat  there  is  a  very 
decided  difference  there. 

VAST   EXTENT    OF   PUBLIC    DOMAIN. 

We  have  irrigation  laws  and  mining  laws  and,  probably,  land  laws, 
and  we  have  a  vast  extent  of  public  domain  that  is  subject,  or  the  use 
of  it  is  subject,  to  appropriation  for  a  varietv  of  purposes,  and  all 
of  them  are  giving  rise  to  disputes  and  conflicts  and  questions  as  to 
origin  of  rights  and  questions  of  right  that  do  not  arise  in  the  eastern 
States. 

Q.  Is  it  not  true  that  the  decisions  of  Judge  Kent  have  given  extraor- 
dinary satisfaction  on  those  very  questions? — A.  He  has  not  passed 
.  on  them  very  much  yet.  I  have  talked  with  Judge  Kent  about  these 
things  myself.  He  has  pending  before  him  now  a  very  considerable 
litigation  about  our  water  rights  and  he  told  me  he  was  bothered  about 
these  new  conditions  because  of  his  lack  of  familiarity  with  these  laws. 
We  have  no  doubt  that  he  will  learn  them  and  decide  them  right.  If 
the  National  Administration  should  succeed  itself  and  he  succeeds  him- 
self, he  will  probably  be  satisfactory.  Now,  the  proceedings  in  court 
have  been  carried  on  with  as  much  decorum  as  in  the  cities  of  the  same 
size  in  the  middle  West.  The  juries  are  made  up  of  an  Arizona  popu- 
lation and  that  is  characteristic  of  a  new  countr}'.  They  average  as  to 
integrity,  frank,  and  outspoken.  They  have  pretty  just  ideas  of  what 
is  justice.  There  is  as  little  corruption  among  our  juries  and  our 
judges  as  there  is  among  the  communities  of  the  older  States.  Now, 
it  has  been  seldom  that  Congress  has  legislated  with  our  local  affairs, 
although  it  has  a  right  to  do  so.  I  can  only  recollect  a  few^  instances. 
One  with  reference  to  some  lionds.  One  set  issued  l)y  Yavapai  Courit}' 
and  one  set  by  Pima  County.  There  was.  some  dissatisfaction  about 
that,  but  it  was  probably  an  unjust  criticism.  It  is  as  a  matter  of 
sentiment  that  we  could  have  attended  to  this  matter  as  well  locally 
as  it  could  have  been  attended  to  by  a  body  who  did  not  have  any 
knowledge  of  them  whatever. 

Q.   What  w^as  that? — A.  Involving  the  legality  of  some  bonds. 

Q.  That  was  involving  an  issue  of  bonds  above  the  statutory  limit, 
was  it  not? — A.  No,  sir;  it  was  in  the  matter  of  some  railroad  bonds, 
l^avapai  County  and  Pima  County  issued  some  bonds  in  aid  of  the 
construction  of  the  railroad  from  Phoenix  to  Prescott.  The  road  in 
Yavapai  County  was  constructed,  but  the  road  in  Pima  County  was 


14-1  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

never  canstructed,  except  ten  miles  of  it.  A  train  never  ran  over  the 
track  at  all,  except  for  construction  purposes,  about  ten  miles  of  it 
being-  ])uilt.     Those  bonds  had  been  issued. 

PIMA    COUNTY   BONDS. 

It  is  said  in  Pima  County — the  bonds  there  were  issued,  and  it  was 
claimed  that  the,y  had  not  been  properly  issued,  and  that  Yavapai  County 
bonds  had  been  issued  properly  because  they  had  got  value  received. 
These  })onds  were  issued  before  or  about  the  time  by  reason  of  the  fact 
that  there  was  a  refunding  act  passed  b\^  the  Territorial  legislature. 
It  was  afterwards  reviewed  and  adopted  by  Congress  with  slight  amend- 
ment. It  was  held  under  this  act  that  we  could  have  these  bonds 
refunded  under  the  provisions  of  the  refunding  act,  and  it  was  objected 
to  by  both  of  the  counties.  In  the  meantime  the  courts  of  this  Ter- 
ritory had  passed  upon  the  question  of  the  right  of  a  county  to  issue 
bonds  in  aid  of  a  railroad,  and  the  Territorial  supreme  court  held  that 
they  had  been  given  the  right  to  do  it  under  the  provisions  of  the 
organic  act.  That  case  w^ent  to  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United 
States  and  was  affirmed.  In  the  meantime,  after  that  a  suit  was 
lirought  on  these  bonds,  and  complete  the  land  connnission  and  refund 
them,  and  in  that  case  it  was  claimec  that  these  bonds  had  been  held 
invalid  by  the  supreme  court  of  the  Territory,  and  they  went  there 
again,  and  they  were  again  held  invalid,  and  that  case  went  to  the 
Supreme  Court  of  the  United  States,  and  while  the  case  was  pending 
there  Congress  passed  a  law  holding  the  bonds  valid. 

Q.  Was  that  an  act  asked  for  l)v  the  Delegate  of  the  Territory  ? — 
A.  Yes,  sir.  But  we  claimed  in  this  Territor}^  that  the  consideration 
had  failed,  and  that  the  bonds  were  illegally  issued.  The  funding  act 
was  passed  in  the  Territory  in  1889  and  revised  bv  Congress,  I  think, 
in  the  same  year. 

Q.  The  act  of  Congress  sustaining  that  refunding  act  was  asked  for 
by  the  Delegate  in  Congress,  was  it  ( — A.  Y"es,  sir.  Now  these  are 
some  of  the  things  that  we  are  complaining  of.  They  are  largely 
matters  of  sentiment,  it  is  true,  but  we  think  these  things  could  have 
been  managed  as  well  locally  as  by  Congress. 

Q.  Well,  Congress  only  did  what  your  legislature  did  and  what  your 
representative  asked. — A.  Yes,  sir;  but  we  don't  think  Congress  should 
have  had  any  part  in  the  matter  at  all. 

CONSIDERABLE   PROPORTION    OF    CRIMINALS   ARE    MEXICANS. 

I  attended  courts  in  the  various  counties  and  we  have  had  before  us 
a  variety  of  criminals.  The  proportion  I  have  seen  are  above  the 
average  for  intelligence.  There  is  a  considerable  proportion  of  these 
taken  up  for  crimes  who  are  Mexicans,  and  their  ofl'enses  are  gener- 
ally of  a  minor  character — some  of  them  cutting  scrapes,  assaults  of 
various  kinds,  and  some  of  them  cattle  stealing.  There  are  a  great 
many  homicides.  They  are  not  confined  to  the  Mexicans.  Possibly 
there  are  more  of  them  among  the  mining  camps  among  the  whites 
than  there  are  among  the  Mexicans.  The  administration  of  justice 
and  the  enforcement  of  law  have  been,  I  feel,  very  fairly  administered. 

Now,  as  to  our  population,  of  course  the  statistics  show  what  the 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  145 

census  made  it.  This  county  is  practically  an  agricultural  county, 
depending  on  agriculture  for  "its  development.  Our  markets  for  it  are 
chietiv  local.  We  will  probably  raise  some  products  that  will  be  the 
subject  of  export.  Surrounding  us  are  mining-  counties.  They  are 
developing  and  will  constantly  develop.  They  are  not  oidy  increasing 
the  product,  but  the  products  of  the  Territory.  Pinal  County  is  also 
an  agricultural  county.  Navajo  County  is  a  grazing  county  and  so  is 
Gra'ham,  and  Coconino  is  a  mining  and  grazing  county.  Mohave 
County  is  almost  entirely  a  mining  county.  Yuma  is  a  mining  county, 
but  will  be  in  time  a  great  agricultural  county. 

WANT   OF   WATER    RETARDS    CULTIVATION    OF    LAND. 

There  are  already  propositions  there  to  convert  the  Colorado.  Pinal 
County  is  on  the  Ciila  and  so  is  Pima.  None  of  the  lands  have  been 
put  into  cultivation  yet  that  can  be,  simply  because  we  have  not  t)een 
able  to  put  all  the  hinds  in  cultivation  for  want  of  water. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

C.  T.  Walters,  called  as  a  witness,  and  tirst  having  been  duly 
sworn,  testilied  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  vour  name  to  the  committee. — A.  ]Mv  name  is 
C.  T.  Walters'. 

Q.  Was  your  census  district  inside  of  this  city  or  outside  of  it  i — A. 
In  the  city. 

Q.  You  took  an  oath  before  you  began  your  enumeration  to  enumer- 
ate faithfully  and  accurateiy,  did  you? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.   Did  you  do  so? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  3'ou  regard  your  report  as  accurate? — A.  As  near  so  as  pos- 
sibly it  could  be  made. 

CENSUS  — FOUR   OR   FIVE    PERSONS   OUT    OF    '2,000   OVERLOOKED. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.   What  reason  was  there  that  it  could  not  be  made  accurate? — A. 
Well,  the  fact  of  the  business  is  that  I  could  sweai'  that  it  was  accu 
rate,  but  after  the  work  was  done  I  discovered  four  or  live  people  that 
I  had  overlooked,  or  not  that  1  had  overlooked,  but  people  that  they 
had  failed  to  report  to  me  that  they  were  stopping  there. 

Q.  How  many  did  you  enumerate? — A.  It  was  very  nearl}^  2,000; 
it  lacked  very  little  of  2,000. 

Q,  How  many  enumerators  were  there  in  the  city? — A.  There  were 
four.  There  were  four  wards  in  the  city  at  that  time,  and  there  w^ere 
four  enumerators  appointed. 

Q.  It  has  been  claimed  that  the  enumeration  did  not  include  any- 
where near  what  the  population  was,  and  we  called  you  in  here  to  tind 
out  whether  that  was  so  and  if  there  was  any  considerable  falling  otf  of 
the  population  in  your  report  from  what  it  actually  was;  what  the 
reason  of  it  was. — A.  Well,  at  that  time  of  year  there  is  always  a 
falling  otf  of  our  population.  I  found  quite  a  number  of  vacant  houses; 
quite  a  number  that  it  was  impossible  for  me  to  get  any  information 
as  to  the  people  who  had  resided  there  from  the  simple  fact  that  there 
was  no  means  of  finding  out. 

H  s  B 10 


146  new  statehood  bill, 

enumerator's  omissions. 

Q.  It  was  people  who  had  removed,  was  it? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I 
expect  right  at  this  time,  if  you  would  g-o  over  the  same  district,  I  do 
not  think  you  would  tind  over  two  vacant  houses  to-day.  There  is  a 
time  of  year  that  everybody  who  are  in  any  kind  of  circumstances  at 
all.  they  manage  to  get  awaj'  for  a  few  months. 

Q.  Those  are  the  people  who  get  away  from  the  town  for  the  sum- 
mer to  the  mountains? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Did  you  enumerate  anybody  that  went  away? — A.  Yes,  sir.  I 
knew  I  was  going  to  enumerate  that  district,  and  when  I  knew  of  a 
family  that  was  going  away  1  went  to  them  and  got  them  before. 

Q.   Weren't  you  well  acquainted  in  the  city? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Didn't  you  know  what  families  had  removed  and  were  going 
away,  to  your  knowledge? — A.  Well,  I  could  not  say  that  I  could.  I 
have  lived  here  a  great  many  years. 

By  the  Chairman: 
■Q.  How  many  men  would  3"ou  say  you  missed  in  your  district? — A. 
I  do  not  think  I  missed  over  five  or  six. 
And  further  the  w  itness  saith  not. 

J.  E.  Stovall,  called  as  a  witness  and  first  having  been  duly  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

B\'  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  J.  E.  Stovall 
is  my  name. 

Q.   How  old  are  you? — A.  Twenty-six  years  old. 

Q.   How  long  have  you  lived  here? — A.  Six  years. 

Q.  You  were  a  census  enumerator? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  was  your  census  district,  in  town  or  outside? — A.  In 
town,  the  Fourth  Ward. 

Q.  Before  you  entered  upon  3^our  duties  as  enumerator  did  you  take 
an  oath  to  faithfully,  honestly,  and  accurateh^  enumerate  the  people 
in  your  district  ? — A.   I  did. 

Q.   Did  you  do  so': — A.  I  did. 

Q.  Did  you  regard  the  census,  as  you  returned  it.  as  accurate? — 
A.  1  did  at  that  time:  3^es,  sir. 

COMPLAINTS   AS   TO    CENSUS. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  Have  you  had  any  complaints  made  that  it  was  not  accurate? — 
A.  Well,  when  we  turned  in  our  reports  the  board  of  trade  took  up 
some  action  against  us — not  exactly  against  us,  but  saying  that  we 
had  not  enumerated — that  is,  that  we  had  not  turned  in  the  full  amount 
from  the  simple  reason  that  at  the  time  of  year,  in  flune,  everybody  that 
is  able  financially  goes  elsewhere  for  cooler  places;  and  I  know  to  my 
I'crtain  knowledge  that  in  the  Fourth  AVard  there  were  a  number  of 
the  prominent  families  that  were  not  in  town. 

Q.  Did  you  enumerate  them? — A.  No,  sir;  because  we  had  explicit 
instructions  to  enumerate  no  one  except  what  was  here. 

Q.  How  many  did  you  miss  on  account  of  that? — A.  That  would  be 
hard  to  say,  because  some  of  them  were  aw^a}'  and  some  of  them  were 
here,  perhaps.     Perhaps  they  were  here  in  Phoenix  and  we  did  not 


NEW    STATEHOOD    15ILL.  147 

get  hold  of  them,  and  the  family  was  away.  If  1  wa.s  to  give  you  an 
estimate  1  could  not  do  it  on  authority. 

Q.  What  do  you  mean  by  saying  that  the  family  was  away?  That 
the  hus))and  was  here  and  the  famih'  was  away  ^ — A.  No.  Now,  I 
know  of  one  family  especially,  that  he  was  here,  and  I  tried  to  catch 
him.  She  was  a  widow  lady,  and  she  and  her  daughter  were  out  of 
town;  they  were  over  to  California.  And  at  the  same  time  one  of  the 
boys  was  here,  and  1  tried  to  catch  him.  and  I  did  not  do  it:  and  what 
are  you  going  to  do  about  it? 

Q!  What  did  you  do  about  it^ — A.  Well,  I  could  not  catch  him. 

Q.  Well,  3'ou  made  no  return? — A.  No,  sir. 

PERSONS   MISSED    BY    AN    ENUMEEATOR. 

Q.  How  many  people  would  jon  say  you  missed  in  3'our  district,  if 
3'ou  can  give  a  guess  ? — A.  Well,  I  should  say  in  the  district  at  that 
tune,  I  should  say  there  was  at  least  1(»()  people  or  more. 

Q.  That  you  missed? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  were  out  of  here  at  that  time. 

Q.  What  was  the  total  number  that  you  took? — A.  1  do  not 
remember. 

Q.  What  is  a  rough  guess? — A.  I  do  not  know. 

Q.  How  are  3^ou  able  to  make  a  rough  guess  of  the  people  you 
missed  and  you  can  not  make  a  rough  guess  of  the  people  you  took? — 
A.  It  would  be  a  hard  matter  for  me  to  say.  I  have  forgotten  entirel}^ 
the  amount  of  people  1  took. 

Q.  You  can  make  a  rough  estimate  of  the  people  vou  missed,  but 
you  can  not  make  a  rough  guess  of  the  people  you  took.  Do  you 
recollect  what  pay  you  got^ — A.  Twenty-tive  dollai's. 

Q.  How  much  did  you  get^^^er  head? — A.  Well,  now,  I  do  not  think 
I  just  exactly  remember. 

Q.  What  action  did  the  board  of  trade  take  against  you  i — A.  They 
did  not  take  any  special  action,  only  when  they  reported  to  Washington 
that  the  amount  of  the  enumeration  turned  in  was  not  correct. 

Q.  They  are  not  satistied  with  your  work? — A.  Yes.  sir;  because 
they  knew  there  were  people  that  were  not  here  that  were  not  enu- 
merated, and  the  superintendent-general  of  the  census  wrote  to  each 
one  of  us,  and  he  asked  us  if  we  had  made  the  census  according  to 
instructions  sent  out,  and  we  signed  that  and  sent  it  liack,  and  that  was 
all  there  was  of  it. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

M.  H.  McCoRD,  called  as  a  witness,  testitied  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Please  state  your  name  to  the  committee.  —  A.  M.  H.  McCord. 

Q.  You  are  the  United  States  marshal  of  the  district  of  Arizona? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  some  jury  lists  with  you? — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  shows  the 
expenses  of  the  trial  juries  and  the  grand  juries  for  one  year.  It  runs 
into  two  years,  but  it  is  for  one  year  complete. 

Q.  1  see  here  that  the  i)ay  roll  for  trial  jurors  for  the  quarter  end- 
ing June  30  was  $381.05;  for  the  quarter  ending  March  31,  for  grand 
jury,  was  §i350;  and  again,  trial  jurors  for  the  quarter  ending  March 
31, '1902,  $i-160.     These'are  fair  samples,  are  they  ^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  the  Territory*?— A.  Pretty  near  ten 
3'ears. 


148  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q,  Awav  from  the  wiiter  courses,  aside  from  the  mountuin  comitry» 
the  mining-,  what  is  the  industry  of  the  people?— A.  Well,  stock 
raisino-,  herding^  sheep  and  goats;  that  is  all  the  industry  there  is. 

Q.  Where  is  the  so-called  native  or  Mexican  population? — A.  It  is 
mostly  in  Pima  County  and  Graham  County;  that  is  in  the  eastern  part 
of  the  Territory. 

Q.  How  many  natives— that  is,  Indians— would  you  say  you  have  in 
the  Territory?— A.  Well,  when  I  was  govei'nor  1  had  a  census  made 
and  we  figured  it  37,000. 

3IORMON    CHURCH    MEMBERSHIP. 

Q.  Where  is  the  seven  thousand  Mormon  Church  membership 
located?— A.  There  is  about  2,000  in  this  county  and  east  of  here,  and 
3,000  in  Graham  County,  and  2,000  in  Apache  County. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Pedro  Garcl\  de  la  Lama,  called  as  a  witness,  and  tirst  haying 
been  duly  sworn,  through  the  medium  of  the  official  interpreter  of  the 
committee,  testified  as  follows  through  the   medium  of   the  official 
interpreter  of  the  connnittee: 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
Pedro  Garcia  de  la  Lama. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  of  the  Territory?— A.  No,  sir;  Mexican. 

Q.  When  did  you  come  here?— A.  Six  years  ago. 

circulation    MEXICAN    RARER. 

Q.  You  are  the  editor  of  El  Progreso?— A.  Y^'es,  sir. 
Q.   What  is  the  circulation  of  your  paper?— A.  Fifteen  hundred; 
700  in  Arizona. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

J.  J.  Otero,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been  duly  sw^orn, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Y^ou  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
J.  J.  Otero. 

Q.  How  old  are  you? — A.  I  am  28. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  of  this  Territory  ? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  your  })usiness? — A.  The  cattle  Imsiness. 

Q.  Any  other  business? — A.  The  newspaper  business. 

Q.  In  connection  with  El  Progreso? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  paper  is  published  in  Phoenix?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  remember  what  the  circulation  is? — A.  It  is  about  2,300, 
I  believe. 

Q.  And  where  does  it  go— all  over  the- Territory?— A.  All  over  the 
Territory.  California,  and  New  Mexico. 

Q.  How  many  go  in  the  Territory  ^— A.  I  do  not  know  exactly;  we 
have  got  about  700,  I  guess. 

Q.  Do  you  say  you  are  a  cattleman? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Where  is  your  ranch?— A.  In  the  Tonto  Basin. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  149 

Q.  How  fur  from  here  is  that? — A.  Northeast  from  here;  it  is  about 
50  miles. 

Q.  Are  you  on  any  stream  of  water? — A.  On  the  Sycamore. 

PLENTY   OF   WATER   IN    KAINY    SEASON. 

Q.  Is  it  possi])le  to  have  a  ranch  away  from  a  water  stream? — A. 
Well,  when  it  is  the  rainy  season,  we  have  plenty  of  water  to  irri- 
gate and  raise  Ijarley. 

Q.  Periiianently  speaking,  can  you  have  a  ranch  away  from  a  water 
course? — A.  Why,  we  depend  upon  the  rain  there;  it  is  not  on  the 
hills.  As  far  as  water  for  the  cattle,  we  get  the  water  by  springs  and 
creeks — out  of  the  springs  and  creeks. 

Q.  You  are  on  a  water  course,  as  I  understand  it:  you  are  on  a 
stream?— A.  Yes,  sir;  part  of  the  time  it  is  running  and  part  of  the 
year  it  is  dry. 

Q.  You  speak  Spanish,  do  3  ou  ? — A.   1  do. 

Q.  Do  the  pepple  employed  by  you  speak  Spanish? — A.  Yes;  and 
English. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

DwiGHT  B.  Heard,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been  duly 
sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  D wight  B. 
Heard. 

Q.  And  your  age? — A.  Thirty -three. 

Q.  And  how  long  have  you  'lived  here? — A.  Eight  years  in  next 
March. 

Q.  You  are  one  of  the  water-storage  commissioners? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  are  familiar  with  how  much  of  this  Territory?— A.  Why,  I 
know  this  valley  very  thoroughly,  and  something  of  Prescott,  and 
something  of  Flagstaff,  and  something  of  Tucson. 

Q.  In  what  portions  of  the  Territory  which  you  have  named  are 
there  irrigation  works  actually  in  operation  ? — A.  The  principal  irriga- 
tion in  the  Territory  is  in  this  valley  and  in  the  Upper  Gila  Valley. 
And  there  is  also  quite  a  small  irrigated  section  just  south  of  Tucson; 
and  there  is  a  splendid  irrigated  section  in  the  Gila  \^illey,  about 
30,000  acres. 

Q.  How  much  would  you  say  at  the  present  time  is  actually  under 
irrigation? — A.  In  the  whole  of  the  Territory? 

ACTUAL   IRRIGATION. 

Q.  Yes,  sir,  in  the  whole  Territory. — A.  About  185.000  acres  under 
actual  cultivation. 

Q.  At  the  present  time? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  water  for  irrigation  purposes  comes  from  the  Salt  and  Gila, 
or  from  any  river  where  the  irrigation  is? — A.  Yes,  sir;  they  bring 
some  from  the  Colorado  River;  the  Salt,  the  Gila,  and  the  Colorado 
are  the  irrigating  streams;  and  the  Verde,  also. 

Q.  Will  you  state  to  the  committee  what  the  effect  is  when  there  is 
a  drought,  or  lack  of  rain  and  snow  fall? — A.  Well,  the  people  are  not 
able  to  raise  the  crops  that  they  otherwise  would. 

Q.  On  account  of  not  being  able  to  put  the  water  on  the  lields? — 
A.  There  is  plenty  of  water,  but  we  are  not  now  able  to  regulate  it. 


150  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  The  storage  and  utilization  of  the  waters  depend  upon  regulating 
the  stream,  and  a  part  of  that  is  the  l)ill  which  we  have  before  the 
committee? — A.  Yes,  sir,  and  under  the  general  irrigation  law. 

NATURAL    1  AINFALL   WILL    RAISE    NOTHING. 

Q.  When  there  is  no  water — when  you  have  water,  I  understand  the 
soil  to  be  extremely  fertile? — A.  Extremely  so.  The  natural  rainfall 
will  raise  nothing  in  this  country.  I  can  say  to  you  that  at  one  time 
I  was  a  little  skeptical  on  this  question  of  stat(diood,  but  now  I  sin- 
cerely believe  that  Arizona  is  worthy  of  statehood.  I  want  to  put 
myself  squarely  on  record  on  that  question. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Frank  Luke,  called  as  a  witness,  and  tirst  having  been  dul}'  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  vour  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Frank  Luke  is 
my  name. 

Q.  And  what  is  your  official  position  here;' — A.  City  assessor  and 
tax  collector. 

Q.  Do  you  collect  the  license  taxes  here? — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

LICENSES. 

Q.  Will  you  state  to  the  committee  what  the  license  taxes  here  are 
for? — A.  Well,  we  have  the  merchants'  tax,  the  merchants'  license, 
and  the  saloon  license. 

Q.  And  games  of  chance? — A.  Gambling  licenses  also. 

Q.  What  are  the  saloon  and  gambling  licenses? — A.  The  saloons  are 
$50  a  quarter,  and  the  gambling  license  P2()  a  month. 

Q.  Does  this  license  permit  them  to  keep  the  saloons  and  gambling 
places  open  on  Sunday^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  That  is  under  the  Territorial  statute? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  the  total  revenue  derived  from  this  source? — A.  The 
total  collection  of  last  j'ear  was  over  $125, (m>0 — between  S25,00O  and 
$26,000.  That  takes  in  the  merchants,  the  saloons,  the  gambling,  and 
everything.  I  am  also  the  tax  collector,  and  we  get  a  revenue  from 
that 'source  of  about  $33,000. 

Q.  That  is  from  what  taxes? — A.  The  property  taxes. 

Q.  Over  $25,<)00  of  revenue  from  the  licenses  and  over  $43,000  from 
the  property  taxes? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

F.  M.  Murphy  called  as  a  witness,  and  tirst  having  ])een  duly  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

B}^  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Please  state  3'our  name  to  the  committee. — A.    F.  M.  Murphy. 

Q.  The  committee  would  like  to  have  from  you  a  compact  state- 
ment, as  compact  as  you  can  give  to  the  committee,  of  the  railroad 
situation  in  the  Territory,  actual  and  prospective,  carefully  discrimi- 
nating between  what  is  actually  completed,  and  what  is  really  build- 
ing and  what  is  in  contemplation. — A.  It  would  be  better  for  me  tirst 
to  speak  of  what  1  am  intimately  associated  with,  and  have  control  of 


NEW    RTATEHOOD    BILL.  151 

to  a  large  extent.  1  am  at  this  time  extending  what  is  called  the 
Prescott  and  Southeastern  road  into  the  Bradshaw  Mountain  district. 
Q.  Where  does  that  road  come  from? — A.  That  leaves  the  Santa 
Fe,  Prescott  and  Phoenix  about  6  miles  north  of  Prescott,  and  runs 
east  and  south. 

THE    PRESCOTT   AND    SOUTHEASTERN    RAILWAY. 

Q.  How  far  does  it  run  east  and  south? — A.  From  the  point  that  it 
leaves  the  Santa  Fe,  Prescott  and  Phoenix  it  is  now  completed  about 
26  miles.  The  first  8  or  10  miles,  after  passing  through  that  point  of 
rocks  down  there,  it  opens  out  into  Lonesome  Valley;  and  then,  after 
traversing  the  valley  a  few  miles,  into  the  mountains;  the  mines  are 
being  developed  in  the  mountains  on  both  sides,  and  large  and  exten- 
sive operations  are  bfeing-  conducted  at  this  time.  And  then  after 
passing  through  this  valley  it  swing's  out  into  the  mountains,  and  the 
first  place  of  importance  that  we  encounter,  commercially  speaking,  is 
the  Valley  Verde  Smelting  Compan^^'s  plant. 

Q.  Is  it  completed  there? — A.  Yes,  sir;  that  is  there,  and  there  is  a 
custom  smelter  there  that  is  proving-  a  great  success  and  a  great  ele- 
ment of  assistance  in  the  development  of  that  section,  because  it  fur- 
nishes a  ready  market  for  the  local  ores  that  can  not  stand  the  trans- 
portation to  the  smelters  that  are  located  at  the  ditierent  points  in  the 
east — Denver  and  El  Paso,  if  you  please.  Prior  to  reaching  that  point, 
the  station  just  before  arriving-  there,  the  stage  leaves  for  the  Verde 
Valley,  which  is  quite  an  extensive  valley  of  a  considerable  irrigation; 
and  passing  through  the  Cherry  Creek  district,  a  district  of  consider- 
able importance,  there  are  a  number  of  mills  going  up  in  there.  Then, 
after  leaving-  that  point,  for  the  next  lU  miles  1  venture  to  say  that 
you  can  easily  see  from  the  railroad  where  a  dozen  difi'erent  mining 
companies  are  in  operation  to-day;  hoisting  plants  are  in  operation, 
and  putting  up  mills,  and  getting  into  that  condition  where  they^  are 
just  reaching-  a  producing  stage.  Some  of  them  are  producing  very 
satisfactorily,  and  are  on  a  dividend-parang  basis  to-day.  Then  at  the 
bend,  just  about  6  or  8  miles  from  the  smelter,  I  have  just  completed 
a  branch  road  into  what  is  known  as  the  Big  Bug  district.  It  cost  me. 
$25(),U00  to  complete  it. 

OTHER   LARGE    INDUSTRAL   OPERATIONS. 

At  that  point  the  company  that  I  am  president  of  has  erected  a 
20-stamp  mill,  and  we  are  putting-  a  tunnel  through  the  mountain 
8,000  feet  long,  which  will  connect  with  another  mining  district  on 
the  other  side  of  the  mountain.  The  mines  on  that  side  of  the  moun- 
tain, under  existing  conditions,  have  to  transport  their  stuti'  11  to  16 
miles  over  rough  roads  to  get  their  stuff  to  Prescott;  and  this  gets  it 
in  touch  with  the  railroad.  We  are  nearly  2,(»0(>  feet  on  either  side 
of  the  mountain,  and  working  with  air  compressors  and  machine  drills 
on  both  sides  of  the  mountain.  Then,  after  having  completed  that 
))ranch  road,  I  took  up  the  extension  of  the  Prescott  and  Eastern,  and 
they  will  have  it  completed  by  January  1, 16  miles  on  the  end  of  that, 
into  the  Bradsha^v  Mountain  district. 

FURTHER  EXTENSION  OF  ROAD. 

I  am  now  about  to  complete  contracts  for  the  extension  of  that  road 
for  another  11  miles  of  very  heavy  mining  work;  well,  we  will  have- 


152  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

two  or  three  switch  backs  in  it,  in  order  to  get  over  the  divide,  to  get 
into  another  rich  mining  district. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  How  much  is  now  actually  completed  and  in  operation,  and  how 
much  in  prospect? — A.  About  39  miles  will  have  been  completed  by 
the  1st  of  January,  and  the  other  11  miles  I  expect  to  contract  for 
right  away.  That  will  complete  that  to  the  heart  of  a  verj^  large 
mining  district. 

By  the  Chaikmax: 

Q.  Will  you  proceed,  Mr.  Murphy? — A.  Now.  I  have  authority 
from  the  Sante  Fe  to  put  on  engineers  now  any  time;  in  fact,  I  could 
have  done  that  any  time  for  the  last  two  months. 

another  line. 

I  have  a  sort  of  a  roaming  commission  to  put  them  on  wherever  I 
think  proper,  to  locate  a  line  from  a  point  on  our  lines  to  a  point  on 
the  Colorado  River,  90  miles.  We  have  had  our  mining  engineers  in 
there  and  examined  the  entire  country. 

Q.  Have  you  surveyed  it^ — A.  Only  by  reconnoissance.  I  have 
been  working  at  so  many  ditierent  places  that  I  have  not  had  time  to 
get  at  it.  I  wanted  to  make  use  of  some  of  the  people  that  I  have 
that  I  have  entire  contidence  in.  I  have  had  that  investigated  by  Prof. 
John  A.  Church,  one  of  the  l>est  mining  engineers  in  the  countrv. 
Now,  I  have  had  Mr.  Drake,  our  chief  engineer,  to  make  a  reconnois- 
sance of  it  preliminary  to  a  survey.  That  I'oad  is  going  to  be  com- 
pleted, and  I  will  have  the  engineers  in  there  very  soon.  I  have  had 
a  reconnoissance  made  for  a  line  running  22  miles  north  of  Hot 
Springs.  Two  or  3  miles  this  side  of  there  we  come  to  a  point  where 
we  go  into  the  Hot  Springs.  There  is  another  district  in  there, 
and  there  are  two  or  three  hundred  men  in  there.  And  it  is  Just  a 
question  of  a  little  more  extension  of  development  work  that  is  now 
going  on  to  put  the  men  in  there  and  construct  the  road  in  there.  ^  I 
have  a  sort  of  a  roaming  privilege  to  put  the  men  in  there  and  build 
the  roads  that  I  think  ought  to  be  l»uilt.  I  am  building  to  Pinal 
County  from  here,  via  Florence;  that  will  supply  all  that  country  that 
will  be  available  by  the  construction  of  the  San  Carlos  irrigation  canal. 
I  am  just  now  laying  the  rails  out  of  here  for  5  miles,  and  I  have  got 
two  sets  of  pile  drivers  at  work  laying  the  approaches.  We  are 
almost  up  to  them  now.  I  want  to  complete  the  tinal  location  of  the 
balance  of  the  line.  We  made  our  preliminary  survey.  That  took  us 
two  or  three  months,  and  then  it  took  us  six  months  to  fix  the  loca- 
tion of  the  line  tinally,  I  succeeded  in  getting  the  right  of  way  for 
25  miles  about  three  week  ago,  and  I  let  the  contract  for  25  miles  of 
this  road,  and  that  is  under  construction  now.  and  we  commenced 
grading  about  ten  days  ago. 

Q.  That  is  in  the  course  of  construction  ?— A.  Yes,  sir;  and  will  be 
completed  to  a  point — to  Benson — supplying  a  very  large  mountain 
mining  and  agricultural  country  east  of  this  point — east  of  Tempe  and 
Mesa.  The  railroad  construction  that  I  have  referred  to  now  is  some- 
thing that  is  directly  under  my  own  supervision  and  is  controlled  by 
me,  and  I  have  authoritv  to  go  ahead  with  it.     I  have  authority  to  let 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  158 

additional  contracts,  and  I  am  getting  up  additional  rights  of  way  at 
different  points,  and  when  I  get  it  ready  I  will  let  the  contracts.  At 
a  point  on  that  road  where  it  turns  to  go  south  this  same  Prof.  John 
A.  Church,  that  we  keep  in  the  held  to  make  reports  to  us  in  support 
of  numerous  examinations  that  I  have  had  made  ))y  different  i)eople, 
giving  us  the  detailed  information  of  the  districts  and  the  possible 
traffic  to  be  developed,  he  would  make  us  a  simplified  statement,  and 
he  makes  the  statement  to  me  that  at  some  point  on  that  road,  about 
100  miles  from  here,  there  will  be  the  largest  city  in  Arizona. 

PROSPECT    FOR   A    LARGE    CITY. 

That  is  his  prediction.  There  is  a  very  highly  mineralized  section 
of  country  there  that  will  be  supplied  l)v  this  railroad,  and  associated 
with  that  is  probal)ly  one  hundred  and  tifty  or  two  hundred  thousand 
acres  of  as  fine  land  as  ever  was  that  is  only  partially  supplied  with 
water. 

Q,  How  far  is  that  from  the  San  Carlos  Canal;  how  niuch  is  there 
irrigated  from  the  San  Carlos  Canal  i — A.  I  do  not  suppose  there  is 
over  5,000  or  6,000  acres  of  that  150,000  that  is  being  supplied  right 
now. 

Q.  The  rest  depends  upon  the  reservoir? — A.  Yes.  sir:  largel3^ 
That  was  one  of  those  enterprises  when  it  was  first  started  in  Arizona, 
was  like  many  other  enterprises  started  in  Arizona;  they  were  gotten 
together  and  bonded  and  capital  secured  on  the  basis  of  the  returns 
that  they  could  figure  out  on  the  land  before  it  was  occupied,  and  a 
large  part  of  those  enterprises  failed  out  there. 

LIVE    E^'TERPRISES. 

Now.  that  has  been  true  in  many  cases  in  Arizona;  but  the  changed 
conditions  and  the  few  years  that  have  intervened  have  brought  to  bear 
on  that  intelligence,  and  capital  sufficient  now.  and  they  are  taking  all 
these  things  up  and  proffting  by  the  mistakes  made  and  putting  them 
into  live  enterprises,  and  that  is  true  here  of  many  of  the  enterprises 
throughout  the  Territory.  Now,  speaking  of  the  railroad  situation, 
that  covers  pretty  much  what  I  have  direct  control  of,  so  to  speak. 
The  Santa  Fe  runs  through  the  north  part  of  the  Territory  from  where 
it  leaves  the  New  ^Mexican  line  to  the  Colorado  River,  which  is  the 
west  line  of  the  Territory.  There  is  a  railroad  which  leaves  the  Santa 
Fe  running  from  Kingman  up  to  Chloride.  The  development  in  there 
is  very  heavy  now. 

Q-  What  is  this  road  that  comes  down  from  Ash  Fork  \ — A.  That  is 
the  Santa  Fe,  Prescott  and  Phoenix.  That  is  controlled  by  the  Santa 
Fe.  and  1  operate  it  for  them. 

Q.  The  road  from  here  to  Benson  is  what  ^ — A.  That  is  where  I 
control  the  thing,  where  it  extends  to-day;  just  where  it  will  fall  later 
I  am  not  prepared  to  say.  The  Southern  Pacific  goes  through  the 
lower  or  southern  part  of  the  Territory.  Unfortunately  for  the  Ter- 
ritory, neither  of  the  transcontinental  roads  touch  the  rich  mineral  or 
agricultural  part  of  the  Territory.  In  the  extreme  southern  part  of 
the  Territory  the  El  Paso  and  Southwestern  has  developed  recently  a 
system  of  roads  there  that  covers  several  hundred  miles. 
'  Q.  Does  that  pass  through  Bisbee? — A.  Yes,  sir;  the  road  that  you 


154  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

go  over.  They  have  also  built  a  line  from  Douglas  to  Bisl)ee,  and  on 
down  into  Mexieo.  and  their  business  conies  out  and  Arizona  gets  the 
benefit  of  it.  They  have  a  line  from  Bisbee  to  Naco,  and  on  into 
Mexieo.  Their  traffic  comes  out  from  Mexico,  and  they  get  the 
benefit  of  it.  The  road  that  leaves  Benson,  paralleling  the  El  Paso 
and  Southwestern,  and  on  to  Nogales,  branching  ofi'  at  Fairbank,  at 
Nogales  it  goes  on  into  Mexico. 

NOGALES,  A  THRIVING    TOWN. 

At  Nogales  there  is  a  very  thriving  town;  that  will  be  a  prosperous 
place.  Eighteen  miles  out  from  Benson  they  have  completed  a  grade 
for  a  road  to  Tombstone.  They  are  probably  laying  rails  now.  That 
is  Phelps,  Dodge  &  Co.'s  property.  The  Southern  Pacific  have  just 
completed  a  survey  for  a  line  crossing  from  Cochise,  which  is  a  point 
in  the  neighborhood  of  SO  miles  east  from  Benson,  going  directly 
south,  passing  the  Commonwealth  mine,  which  is  the  Penrose  mine; 
that  is.  Senator  Penrose's  brother.  It  will  be  suggested  to  you  that 
all  of  these  roads  are  going  into  this  southern  country  that  I  am 
speaking  of. 

Q.  Is  that  in  course  of  construction? — A.  They  have  just  completed 
their  surveys. 

Q.  How  long  is  that  branch? — A.  Well,  in  the  United  States  I 
should  suppose  it  would  be  about  loo  miles  long. 

Q.  And  how  long  in  Mexico? — A.  Oh.  three  or  four  hundred  miles, 
proba])ly;  but  it  brings  traffic  into  the  United  States,  you  know,  and 
enriches  that  tier  of  counties  all  along  the  border. 

OTHEK   NEW    RAILROADS. 

Then,  the  Arizona  and  New  Mexican  road,  that  runs  from  Lords- 
burg,  on  the  Southern  Pacific,  to  Clifton  and  Morenci;  they  have 
carried  that  down  to  connect  with  the  El  Paso,  and  that  lets  them  into 
Deming. 

Q,  Is  that  completed  i' — A.  Yes.  sir,  and  in  operation. 

Q.  How  long  is  it  from  Morenci  to  Deming? — A.  I  should  judge 
about  1<H)  miles;  the  map  would  show  accurately,  and  1  am  not  quite 
clear  on  the  distances  over  in  there.  Then  the  El  Paso  and  South- 
western system  is  also  building  its  own  line  into  El  Paso,  connecting- 
up  with  all  their  lines  at  Bisbee  and  Douglass,  and  their  line  into 
Mexico,  and  their  line  into  Naco.  • 

Q.  Their  gathering  in  would  beat  El  Paso? — A.  Yes.  sir;  although 
this  line  comes  down  and  crosses  the  Southern  Pacific  and  transfers  its 
business  at  present  at  Deming.  There  are  a  number  of  other  com- 
panies organized,  but  whether  they  are  in  the  hands  of  people  that 
are  financially  strong  enough  to  put  them  through  or  not  I  do  not 
know.  They  make  a  good  deal  of  talk.  There  has  been  a  compan}^ 
organized  to  build  a  road  from  here  to  San  Diego,  Cal.,  and  I  have 
not  the  slightest  doubt  but  that  thac  will  be  constructed  very  soon 
after  our  road  is  constructed  here. 

Q.  Would  that  parallel  the  Southern  Pacific  and  Santa  Fe? — A.  No, 
sir;  neither  one.  This  would  go  in  through  the  middle  of  the  Terri- 
tory, and  cross  the  Southern  and  go  down  to  San  Diego.  It  would 
give  San  Diego  direct  east  and  west  connection,  and  this  road  that  I 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  155 

am  talking-  about  would  reach  a  very  large  development  in  a])out  that 
time;  and  there  is  a  large  pait  of  this  valley  30  or  40  miles  south  of 
here  that  this  would  go  through,  and  it  would  provide  some  of  the 
miners  that  live  right  on  it  with  an  outlet.  There  are  some  mines 
there  now.  There  is  a  very  strong  element  associated  with  the  con- 
struction of  that  prospective  San  Diego  road,  and  1  think  it  will  bring 
results,  and  at  no  distant  day,  but  not  probably  until  after  we  get 
this  system  here. 

Q.  Is  there  any  other  road'^ — A.  Well,  there  is  a  road  from  the 
Santa  Fe,  from  Williams  to  the  Grand  Canj^on.  And  then  there  is 
the  Clark  road,  from  Jerome,  and  it  supplies  a  great  number  of  mines, 
and  also  brings  oat  the  products  from  the  Verde  Valley,  so  that  it  is 
a  healthy  enterprise  and  a  paying  road.  I  do  not  know  of  any  rail- 
road construction  that  is  in  serious  contemplation  other  than  that 
right  now. 

And  farther  the  witness  saith  not. 

Governor  Alexander  O.  Brodie  appeared  before  the  committee 
and  testitied  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Governor  Brodie,  how  long  have  j'ou  been  acquainted  with  the 
Territory  ? — A.  Thirty-two  3'ears. 

Q.  You  have  been  all  over  it? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  Territory  divides  itself  industrially  into  the  mining  regions^ 
the  agricultural  regions,  and  the  grazing  regions'^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

AGRICULTURAL   REGIONS   ALONG    WATER   COURSES. 

Q.  The  agricultural  regions  are  along  the  river  courses'^ — A.  Yes, 
sir;  where  they  have  water  for  irrigation. 

Q.  Agriculture  away  from  the  rivers  is  impossible,  is  it? — A.  It  is 
only  in  the  high  mountains,  where  they  get  summer  rains,  in  a))out 
Flagstaff  and  Williams,  and  in  those  high  mountains. 

Q.  Now,  where  are  the  grazing  districts? — A.  The  main  grazing  dis- 
tricts are  Cochise,  Graham,  and  Pima  counties. 

Q.  Where  does  the  stock  get  water  there? — A.  Out  of  the  difiei'ent 
springs  and  water  holes,  streams,  and  wells. 

CATTLE   WILL   GRAZE    WITHIN    FIVE    MILES   OF   W^ATER. 

Q.  Is  grazing  possible  where  there  is  no  stream  or  water  holes? — 
A.  Cattle  will  graze  and  you  can  succes«fully  raise  them  where  there 
is  water  within  5  miles. 

Q.  So  that  the  area  of  stock  raising  is  confined  to  within  a  distance 
of  .5  miles  of  w^ater? — A.  Yes,  sir.  So  that  if  there  is  water  within  10 
miles  the  cattle  can  graze  within  the  territory  between.  The  northern 
pol'tion  of  the  Territory  is  a  grazing  district  for  sheep — Apache,  Coco- 
nino, and  down  to  Yavapai  County;  but  in  Yavapai  County  they  have 
a  good  deal  of  cattle  grazing,  too.  If  you  wish  me  to  I  can  give  a^ou 
a  general  description  of  the  Territory. 

The  Chairman.  We  should  be  very  pleased  to  have  3^ou  do  so.  Gov- 
ernor. 

Governor  Brodie.  It  is  a  very  large  Territorv,  and  the  resources 
are  diversified  bv  reason  of  the  extent  and  the  character  of  the  country. 


156  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

In  the  high  rano-c  of  mountains  extending  through  we  have  the  largest 
single  )>elt  of  pine  tinibcn-  in  the  United  States,  in  this  Territory,  that 
extends  from  the  Grand  Canyon  into  New  Mexico,  in  the  southeastern 
portion,  about  ♦!<>  to  SO  miles  in  width  and  300  miles  in  length.  The 
greater  ])ortions  of  it  have  been  included  in  the  forest  reservations  and 
in  the  Indian  reservations.  That  country  must  depend  entirely  upon 
grazing  for  its  success  in  the  portions  outside  of  the  timber  land. 
There  is  very  little  mining  up  that  way;  some  little  up  aljout  the  Grand 
Canyon. 

YAVAPAI   COUXTY  A    GRAZING,  MINING.  AND    AGRICULTURAL    REGION. 

Yavapai  County  is  a  grazing,  mining,  and  agricultural  region.  You 
saw  the  Congress,  and  the  ()ctave  is  11  miles  from  there,  and  the 
Glach  near  that,  and  some  in  operation  and  some  not.  The  mineral 
belt  comes  into  that  county  from  Mohave,  in  the  northwest.  There  are 
verv  rich  ores  there  to-day,  and  some  have  been  worked  out,  but 
others  have  taken  their  places.  This  county  is  an  agricultural  county, 
although  there  are  some  mines  in  it  about  Wickenberg,  The  old  Vul- 
ture mine  back  of  Wickenberg — some  nine  millions  have  been  taken 
out  of  that.  They  have  about  135,000  acres  actually  under  irrigation 
here  at  the  present  time.  The  main  crop  is  alfalfa,  to  feed  stock 
brought  down  from  the  north  or  from  the  ranges.  Yuma  County,  to 
the  west  of  us,  is  a  mining  and  agricultural  county.  The  water  for 
irrigation  there  comes  from  the  Colorado  River.  About  50.000  acres 
inunediately  below  the  city  of  Yuma  is  in  irrigation  at  the  present 
time;  some  from  pumping  water  and  some  from  the  river.  They 
pump,  in  some  instances,  in  order  to  get  rid  of  the  silt  that  flows  down 
this  stream.  That  silt  is  very  heavy,  and,  while  it  enriches  the  soil, 
it  cakes  upon  it  and  makes  it  hard'  for  cultivation.  Pima  County, 
next  east  of  here,  is  agricultural,  mining,  and  stock  raising,  mainl3^ 
That  is  one  of  the  old  original  three  counties  cut  up.  It  is  very  rich. 
Tucson  is  a  prosperous  town  about  the  size  of  this,  perhaps  larger, 
and  is  perhaps  the  third  oldest  town  in  the  United  States.  They  irri- 
gate there  from  the  waters  in  the  Santa  Cruz. 

ABANDONED   MINES. 

Very  few  of  their  mines  are  now  in  operation,  the  reason  being  the 
fall  of  the  price  of  copper  and  the  cost  of  freight.  Cochise  County  is 
the  richest  county,  probably,  and  has  been  developed  in  the  last  two 
or  three  years  in  railroad  l)uilding.  mining,  and  cattle  ranging.  They 
have  built  there  the  El  Paso  and  Southwestern  Railroad  ])ack  in  these 
mining  camps,  giving  them  an  outlet,  and  intend  building  other 
branches  to  that.  These  lines  parallel  the  Southern  Pacitic,  and 
gradually  run  away  from  it  and  go  through  the  diflerent  mining 
camps  of  the  county.  They  have  the  large  Bisbee  mines,  which  you 
will  see.  and  the  Pierce  mine,  the  largest  gold-producing  mine  in  the 
Territory;  the  Commonwealth,  and  the  smaller  mines  being  opened 
up  in  the  diflferent  parts  of  the  county,  alreadv  producers.  At  Bisbee 
they  have  drilled  and  have  found  their  copper  ore  bodv  for  a  distance 
of  V)  miles  from  the  original  discovery  at  the  Copper  Queen,  show- 
ino-  that  the  ore  Itody  follows  the  vein  for  that  distance;  they  have 
a  distance  of  from  two  to  three  hundred  feet  at  one  end  to  eleven  hun- 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  157 

dred  feet  at  the  other  end.  That  is  a  very  valual)le  ore  deposit.  In 
Santa  Cruz  County,  throuo-h  this  county  and  section  they  have  the 
San  Pedro  River  and  branches,  and  they  have  found  artesian  water 
along-  that,  and  are  developing  it.  That  county  is  cut  oti'  from  Pima 
County,  and  is  on  the  ^Mexican  border,  south  of  Pima  C'ounty.  That 
is  a  smaller  county,  and  on  account  of  the  town  of  Nogales,  which  is 
the  main  town,  and  as  a  mining-  and  agricultural  section,  has  more 
industries  than  they  have  in  Cochise  and  Pima. 

Graham  County  is  a  mining  and  agricultural  county.  In  the  moun- 
tains thev  have  the  Clifton  and  Morenci  mines  and  the  Shannon  Cop- 
per Company.  I  suppose  they  are  among-  the  largest  copper  mines  in 
the  world.  They  reduce  there,  and  make  an  immense  prolit  on  5 
per  cent  copper  ore.  The  Clifton  Company  is  owned  by  a  Scotch 
corporation,  and  I  have  understood  in  years  past  that  they  expended 
$7, ()(»(>, OOo  liefore  they  got  out  a  dollar,  and  that  they  could  not  hardly 
g-ive  away  the  stock  at  one  time,  and  now  vou  can  not  buy  it.  They 
handle  immense  quantities  of  ore,  and  consider  themselves  lucky  if 
they  get  ore  that  makes  5  per  cent.  Phelps.  Dodge  &  Co.,  of  New 
Yoi-k,  own  the  Copper  Queen.  Above  there  thev  have  fifty  or  sixty 
thousand  acres  of  land  in  cultivation  and  under  irrigation.  That  is 
on  the  line  running  from  Bowie,  on  the  Southern  Pacitic,  running  to 
Globe. 

MORMON    SETTLEMENTS. 

That  is  a  very  prosperous  and  thrifty  section  of  the  Territory.  The 
main  settlers  tliere,  however,  are  Mormons.  They  are  a  very  thrifty 
class  of  people  and  they  have  successfully  raised  all  sorts  of  fruit. 
In  that  county  they  also' tind  artesian  water  by  boring.  Gila  County 
is  entirely  a  mining  and  agricultural  county.  Pinal  County  is  the 
same,  except  in  the  valley  about  Florence;  they  irrigate  there  to  quite 
an  extent.  The  Territory  as  a  whole  is  in  a  thoroughly  prosperous 
condition,  and  every  year  makes  material  advancement  in  the  devel- 
opment of  mines,  in  the  development  of  the  agricultural  resources, 
and  in  the  development  of  the  stock  industry.  These  are  the  three 
main  industries.  In  every  county  in  the  Territory-  you  will  lind  a 
progressive  class  of  people,'^  energetic,  patriotic,  and  thoroughly  Ameri- 
can. Our  towns  are  growing  rapidly.  Within  six  months  considera- 
bly over  two  hundred  Iniildings  have  been  erected  in  Tucson.  The 
town  of  Prescott  has  grown  materially  within  the  last  year,  and  has 
been  entirely  reconstructed  and  many  ncAV  buildings  erected  above  the 
old  ones  replaced  after  the  tire. 

DROUGHT  OF  LAST  FOUR  YEARS  MATERIALLY  AFFECTED  WATER   SUPPLY. 

Florence  and  Phoenix  have  been  more  at  a  standstill  for  the  reason 
that  the  drought  of  the  last  four  years  has  very  materially  atiected  the 
amount  of  water,  the  surface  flow  of  the  streams,  and  the  general 
water  suppl}'. 

EFFECT    OF    STORAGE    DAM. 

By  Senator  DillinCtHa:m: 

Q.  Governor  Brodie,  what  will  the  effect  be  if  the  storage  dam  is 
built  which  is  under  consideration,  and  of  which  we  saw  the  model 


158  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

this  morning?— A.  Well,  this  reservoir  would  be  tilled  in  most  an}- 
one  Hood.  %Ve  have  two  rainy  seasons,  the  summer  and  winter;  the 
heaviest  storms  coming  in  the  winter,  generall}^  in  Januarv  and  Feb- 
ruarv.  In  one  of  those  storms  the  flood  waters  flowing  down  from 
the  mountains  would  All  any  reservoir  that  we  could  construct  on  any 
one  of  these  streams,  and  particularly  on  this  Salt  River,  which  has  so 
manv  branches  and  drains  so  large  a  country.  The  eflect  of  that  would 
be  to  increase  the  area  to  be  irrigated.  That  one  reservoir  would  irri- 
gate 480, 000  acres  of  land,  l)y  a  conservative  estimate.  The  natural 
flow  of  the  stream  would  be  allowed  to  go  on  its  way  down  the  stream, 
for  the  use  of  prior  locations.  The  natural  flow  would  not  irrigate 
the  amount  of  land  that  they  have  under  cultivation  in  this  valley. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  That  dam  would  not  in  any  way  afl'ect  the  natural  flow  of  the 
stream? — A.  Oh,  no;  it  is  to  store  and  impound  the  flood  waters,  and 
1  understand  that  their  purpose  is  to  make  a  canal  around  the  lake,  so 
that  they  can  send  the  entire  natural  flow  of  the  stream  around.  It  is 
<'ustomary  to  measure  the  natural  flow  and  let  that  nuich  out,  but  in 
this  case  1  understand  that  it  is  the  intention  to  build  a  canal  and  let 
the  natural  flow  go  around. 

PUBLIC    I^STITUTIONS,  SCHOOLS,  CHURCHES. 

I  believe  that  I  can  consistently  say  that  the  public  institutions  in 
the  Territoiy — the  schools,  the' churches,  the  university,  and  the 
normal  schools—  are  in  excellent  condition.  I  should  say  tirst,  the 
pul)lic  schools  would  compare  favorably  with  those  of  almost  any 
other  division  of  the  United  States.  We  take  a  special  pride  in  our 
pul)lic  school  system,  inaugurated  here  in  the  early  days  under  Gov- 
ernor Saflord.  '  It  has  been  greatly  builded  up,  until  to-day  we  have 
schoolhoiises  in  every  disti'ict,  and  education  is  made  compulsory  up 
to  a  certain  age.  The  normal  schools  are  very  progressive  and  thor- 
oughly up  to  date,  thoroughly  equipped,  and  have  a  most  excellent 
corps  "of  professors.  We  have  two  normal  schools,  one  at  Flagstafl' 
and  one  at  Tempe. 

The  University  of  Arizona  at  Tucson  is  a  most  creditable  institution. 
It  is  kept  up  by  appropriations  I)y  the  General  Government,  to  a  certain 
extent.  It  is  an  agricultural  college.  They  have  an  experimental 
station  here  in  this  valley;  another  at  Tempe,  above  there,  where 
they  are  cultivating  the  date  palm  very  successfully  on  alkali  land.  I 
understand— I  believe— they  have  from  the  General  Government 
§40,000  a  vear,  coming  everv  two  vears,  and  that  that  is  to  be  applied 
for  specifi'c  purposes.  The  Territory,  by  appropriation  during  the 
difl'erent  years,  has  built  the  buildings  at  the  Territorial  university; 
and  this  last  vear  they  voted  $25,000  in  bonds  for  the  construction  of 
a  librarv  and"  museum.  Now,  you  will  have  an  opportunity  to  see  the 
university  during  vour  stav  in  Tucson.  Last  year  we  also  constructed 
at  Tucson  a  reforiii  school,"  for  which  was  voted  §!>.5,000  in  bonds.  The 
building  has  ])een  flnished,  l)ut  it  will  depend  upon  this  coming  legis- 
lature—the amount  of  money  they  appropriate  for  buildings  and  fur- 
nishings—to make  it  possible  to  utilize  the  school.  This  is  for  the 
general  purposes  of  a  reform  school. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  159 

TERRITOKIAL   PRISON. 

Our  Territorial  prison  is  located  at  Yuma  and  is  in  good  condition. 
It  consists  of  a  large  wall  aljout  the  grounds,  with  buildings  inside — 
the  cell  rooms.  The  prisoners  are  utilized  in  the  late  3-ears  only  on 
the  repairs  and  additional  vrork  about  the  prison,  in  making  adobes 
for  sale,  and  in  making  excavations  for  new  works  about  the  prison. 
There  is  probably  work  there  for  them  for  the  coming  year.  There 
are  nearly  three  hundred  prisoners  in  that  penitentiary.  The  Terri- 
torial insane  asylum  is  located  here  at  Phoenix.  It  is  only  8  miles  out 
of  town.  It  is  a  veiy  creditable  institution.  The  Territory,  not  being- 
wealthy,  has  to  add  to  each  institution  as  occasion  demands,  and  from 
year  to  year,  or  from  two  years  to  two  3'ears,  at  the  meeting's  of  the 
legislature. 

TERRITORIAL    TAX    RATE    HIGH. 

The  rate  of  taxation  in  the  Territory  is  excessively  high  as  compared 
wdth  the  rate  in  the  Eastern  States  and  Territories,  for  the  reason  that 
these  public  Iniildings  have  been  constructed:  bonds  have  been  for  aid 
to  railroads,  and  have  been  voted  for  an  exhibit  at  the  World's  Fair, 
or  at  the  ditierent  world's  fairs,  and  for  other  purposes:  and  I  might 
not  l)e  far  wrong  in  stating  that  the  average  rate  in  the  ditierent  coun- 
ties would  reach  perhaps  S8.50  on  the  ^100  valuation. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  What  proportion  do  you  get  on  personal  property,  and  what  on 
real  estate  ?-^A.  The  proportion  of  taxable  property  would  be  very 
hard  for  me  to  say,  unless  I  went  back  to  the  auditor's  office.  There 
is  a  very  small  proportion:  all  real  estate  that  is  patented  is  taxed. 
There  is  a  very  small  proportion,  perhaps,  of  personal  property  taxed; 
that  is,  considering  stock  and  everything.  The  reason  for  that  is  that 
it  is  hard  to  get  an  exact  accounting  of  the  cattle  on  the  ranches. 

By  Senator  Burniiam: 

Q.  How  does  the  valuation  for  taxation  compare  with  the  true  val 
nation  of  the  property^ — A.  Well,  the  matter  is  left  almost  entirely 
in  the  hands  of  the  owner  of  the  property,  who  certities  on  the  return 
that  he  sends  to  the  assessor.  If  the  board  of  supervisors,  sitting  as  a 
board  of  equalization,  see  cause,  the}'  raise  these  assessments.  I  should 
judge  that  on  the  average  the  assessed  valuation  would  be  pei-haps  one- 
third  up  to  one-half  of  the  actual  value  of  the  property,  except,  per- 
haps, when  they  give  returns  on  cattle,  they  value  those  at  about  50 
per  cent  of  their  value. 

The  people  of  the  Territory,  as  a  general  thing-,  almost  unanimously 
believe  that  they  are  in  a  condition  linancially  and  in  every  wa}'  to 
carry  on  a  State'  government.  They  think  they  are  entitled  to  admis- 
sion'to  statehood^  for  the  reason  that  the.v  are  of  the  class  that  they 
are:  that  they  are  ai>le  to  carry  on  a  government,  and  that  it  will  be 
beneficial  as  a  whole  to  the  people  if  they  are  admitted  as  a  State. 
They  have  a  great  desire  in  this  country,  as  in  all  others,  to  have  a 
voice  in  the  selection  of  their  officials:  to  have  them  responsilde  to  the 
people  for  the  places  that  they  hold.  They  desire  particularly  the 
stal>ilitv  that  comes  with  a  State  government":  the  stability  in  the  laws 
of  the  State  that  comes  with  a  State  government:  and  they  desire  par- 


1()U  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

ticLilarly  that  prosperity  that  coiiies  from  statehood,  as  has  been  shown, 
I  believe,  with  one  exception,  in  every  new  State  admitted  in  the  last 
twenty-tive  years. 

ASSESSMENT   OF    TAXABLE    I'ROPERTY. 

The  assessment  of  the  taxable  property  for  this  year  amounts  to 
something-  over  $39,000,000.  There  are  mines  in  this  Territory  that 
if  you  were  to  offer  them  $89,000,000  for  them  they  would  refuse  it. 
Take  the  Jerome  property;  they  would  not  take  1100,000, 000  for  it,  I 
think.  They  refused  §60,00(i,i»o0  for  it  some  years  ago.  The  growth 
of  this  Territory,  gentlemen,  has  been  magnificent  within  the  last 
thirty-two  years,  since  I  have  known  it. 

When  I  first  came  here,  thirty-two  years  ago,  outside  of  the  towns 
it  was  ver}'  seldom  that  within  a  hundred  miles  you  would  meet  a  per- 
son or  find  a  house;  to-day  the  country  is  thoroughly  settled  from  one 
end  to  the  other;  the  Indians  are  all  at  peace  and  on  their  reserva- 
tions; and,  taking  it  all  in  all,  Arizona  has  shown  as  large  strides  as 
any  other  subdivision  of  the  United  States,  when  you  consider  the 
difficulties  that  had  to  be  encountered.  I  would  like  to  say  all  the 
good  that  I  can  for  Arizona.  I  wish  to  say  that  I  myself  believe 
personally  that  a  State  government  in  this  Territory,  if  adopted,  could 
be  carried  on  successfuily;  that  it  will  be  for  the  benefit  of  the  Terri- 
tory financially  and  in  every  other  wa}',  and  will  inure  to  the  benefit 
of  the  peopleof  the  Territory,  if  they  be  admitted.  You  will  have 
good  opportunity  to  see  the  class  of  inhabitants  throughout  Arizona; 
your  tour  through  it  being  almost  in  a  circle  will  give  you  a  very  fair 
idea  of  the  class  of  population  that  we  have  here. 

Judge  Nelsox  G.  Laytox,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been 
duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  Please  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Nelson  G.  Layton. 

Q.  You  reside  in  Phoenix? — A.  Y"es,  sir. 

Q.  And  your  official  position  is  what? — A.  Superintendent  of  public 
instruction  for  the  Territory. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  held  the  position? — A.  Since  the  1st  of  July 
last. 

CONDITION    OF   THE    SCHOOLS. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  We  desire  to  ascertain  the  condition  of  the  schools  of  the  dis- 
tricts, and  so  on.  and  the  extent  of  them,  and  the  number  of  children 
enrolled,  and  so  on,  and  have  called  you  before  the  committee  to  ask 
you  to  give  us  this  information. — A.  Well,  now,  I  have  a  little  report 
here,  which  is  a  part  of  my  biennial  report.  We  have  the  number  of 
children  of  school  age,  which  is  from  6  to  21  in  this  Territory:  at  this 
time  the  number  is  25,259.  The  number  of  children  enrolled  in  the 
public  schools  of  the  Territory  is  19,203.  The  average  daily  attend- 
ance last  year  was,  in  the  public  schools,  11,514.  The  whole  number 
of  school  districts  in  the  Territory  is  275.  The  number  of  grammar 
schools  is  122;  the  number  of  priniary  schools  is  320.  The  whole  num- 
ber of  male  teachers  is  118,  of  female  teachers  339,  making  a  total  of 
457  teachers.  The  number  of  new  districts  organized  during  the  year 
was  11;  the  number  of  new  schoolhouses  built  was  19. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  1()1 

STATISTI(\S. 

The  imniber  of  voluiiu's  in  the  school  libraries  is  11,63().  The  avei'a^'e 
number  of  da,vs  that  schools  were  maintained  in  all  of  the  school  dis- 
teicts  was  125  for  the  year.  The  average  salary  paid  to  the  male 
teachers  was  |>85.51;  the  average  salary  paid  to  female  teachers  was 
$71.75.  That  is  per  month,  of  course.  The  amount  received  from  the 
Territorial  fund  to  be  distributed  among  the  districts  was  $22, 051 ; 
the  amount  received  from  the  county  taxes  Avas  $195, (JOl^,  the  amount 
received  from  the  special  district  taxes  was  $14,120;  the  amount 
received  from  poll  taxes  was  $23,942;  the  amount  receiA^ed  from 
licenses,  tines,  and  miscellaneous  sources,  $80,748.12;  total  receipts, 
$530,648.64.  The  expenditures  for  last  year  were:  Paid  for  teachers' 
salaries,  $224,599.86;  amount  paid  for  lil)raries,  $357.55;  amount  paid 
for  school  apparatus,  $2,137.44;  amount  paid  for  new  buildings  and 
school  furniture,  $60,954.23;  amount  paid  for  repairs,  fuel,  etc., 
$61,529.53;  amount  paid  for  miscellan(H)us  purposes,  $27,106.79,  mak- 
ing the  total  expenditures  for  the  year  $401,235.59,  leaving  a  balance 
on  hand  at  the  end  of  the  school  year  of  $129,413.  The  total  bonded 
indebtedness  for  building  new  schoolhouses  is  $297,737.84.  The  total 
A^aluation  of  all  of  the  school  property  is  $654,942.  That  is  the  tabu- 
lated statement.  I  have  here  a  comparative  table  of  progression,  show- 
ing the  progression  in  our  schools  from  1885  to  the  pi-esent  time,  which 
1  will  leave  Avith  the  committee  as  a  part  of  my  stateuient. 

(The  statement  is  attached  as  Exhibit  I.) 

J.  C.  Adams  appeared  before  the  conuuittee  as  a  witness,  and,  fii'st 
having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  folloAvs: 

Mr.  Adams.  I  have  only  been  here  seAcn  years,  and  after  I  had  been 
here  about  a  year  and  a  half  they  elected  me  mayor  here,  and  I  was 
in  a  position  to  pretty  thoroughly  understand  the  morals  and  other 
things  that  happen  in  a  Western  town.  Five  or  six  A'ears  ago  in  this 
toAvn  bawdyhouses  Avere  public,  and  were  practically  licensed  by  the 
collection  of  tines.  Women  without  license  Avere  alloAved  to  sing  in 
saloons  and  allowed  to  go  around  to  the  games  and  hang  over  the 
bars,  and  do  things  of  that  kind,  without  any  ordinance. 

IMPROVED   MORAL   CONDITIONS. 

The  bawdA'houses  were  driven  out  of  town,  and  they  located  just 
across  the  border  of  the  city  limits,  and  I  then,  at  the  request  of  the 
citizens,  got  the  council  to  expand  the  limits  of  the  territory  of  the  toAvn 
until  Ave  have  a  tremendous  corporation  noAV,  so  far  as  the  limits  are 
concerned,  and  they  were  l)v  that  means  driven  out  of  existence,  and 
to-day  there  are  absolutely  no  l)awdyhouses,  licensed  or  otherwise — 
absolutel}"  none — as  I  am  informed,  and  1  believe  that  my  information 
on  that  is  rcdiable.  The  Avomen  in  the  saloons  were  gradually  gotten 
rid  of.  Thev  used  to  sing  in  the  saloons,  and  without  any  ordinance 
at  all  1,  as  mayor,  told  them^ — told  the  saloon  keepers — that  the  women 
could  not  drink  over  their  bars  or  sing  in  the  saloons  or  hang  about 
them.  I  says,  '"If  a-ou  want  them  to  sing  in  your  saloons,  3'ou  may  do 
so  by  putting  a  platform  back  on  the  back  part,  and  that  is  as  far  as 
they  can  go  in  your  saloons.-'  That  Avas  the  lirst  move,  and  after  that 
an  ordinance  was  passed  taking  them  entirely  out  of  the  saloons. 

H  s  B 11 


162  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

GAMBLING    A    LICENSED    FEATURK. 

As  far  as  o-ainl)linir  is  concerned,  it  is  a  licensed  feature  in  the  city, 
but  every  bit  of  oambling-  that  is  done  in  this  country  is  done,  I  think, 
absohitely  on  tiie  scjuare,  upon  the  square  principle,  as  far  as  they  can 
be  conducted:  that  is,  1  do  not  know  of  such  a  thing  as  a  brace  game — 
that  is,  in  other  words,  the  men  playing-  faro  or  roulette  and  those 
things  here — they  are  conducted  on  the  square,  so  far  as  taking  advan- 
tage of  the  players  is  concerned.  1  believe,  as  far  as  the  licenses  are 
concerned,  that  if  we  were  a  State  that  these  things  here  woukl  be 
wiped  out.  That  belief  is  based  upon  some  of  the  things  that  have 
actually  occurred  here. 

LOCAL-OPTION    LAW. 

The  last  legislature  passed  a  local -option  law.  They  held  an  election 
in  this  county  under  the  local-option  law,  which  meant  the  wiping  out 
of  the  saloons.  If  that  law  carried,  the  saloons  would  g-o,  as  such, 
and  an  election  was  held  in  a  great  many  districts,  and  outside  of  this 
town,  Tempe,  and  Mesea  the  vote  Avas  4  to  1  to  wipe  out  the  saloons, 
unless  petitioned  for  by  a  majority  of  the  freeholders  of  that  district. 
Now  a  saloon  can  not  exist  in  Maricopa.  There  can  not  be  a  licensed 
saloon  outside  of  Phoenix,  Tempe,  and  Mesea.  We  have  A.lhambra 
and  Peoria.  Those  are  two  other  little  towns  that  were  3  or  4 
to  1  against  the  licensing  of  saloons.  When  I  was  mayor  we  had 
three  policemen,  two  in  the  daytime  and  one  at  night.  It  was  a  pub- 
lished fact,  and  it  was  called  to  my  attention  during  the  last  election, 
that  only  one  sheriff  in  the  last  fifteen  years  has  shot  at  a  man  and  only 
one  sheriff'  has  been  shot  at  in  the  last  fifteen  years  in  this  county.  And 
I  simply  wanted  to  mention  these  things  to  the  committee  because  they 
are  facts.     1  am  here,  planted  here  with  what  I  have. 

THE   AVERAGE    CITIZENSHIP. 

I  believe  that  the  average  of  the  citizenship  of  this  count}'  at  least 
will  average  with  the  citizenship  almost  anj^where,  and  it  is  reall}^  the 
wish,  I  know,  of  98  men  out  of  100  that  have  property  here  that  we 
may  have  statehood. 

Further  hearings  were  here  adjourned  to  Tucson,  Ariz. 


Tucsox,  Ariz.  ,  Novemher  19^  1902. 
At  11  o'clock  a.  m. ,  at  the  Orndorff  Hotel  in  the  above-named  city 
and  on  the  above  date,  the  committee  resumed  the  hearing  of  testimony 
with  respect  to  the  question  of  admission  of  the  above-named  Territory 
to  statehood. 

John  E,  Magee,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been  duly 
sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  You  may  state  3'our  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
John  PI  Magee. 

Q.  Were  you  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


np:w  statehood  rill.  163 

Q.   Wluit  was  your  district? — A.  The  business  portion  of  Tucson. 

Q,  And  do  you  remember  about  what  the  enumeration  of  your  dis- 
trict was,  in  number? — A.  About  3,000;  about — may})e  a  little  over. 

Q.  How  carefully  did  you  take  the  enumeration? — A.  As  carefully 
as  human  ino-einiity  could  do  it,  accordino-  to  the  instructions  given  by 
the  department;  block  by  block  and  house  by  house. 

CENSUS  COMPLETE  AND  ACCURATE. 

Q.  Then  1  take  it  that  vour  census — your  enumeration — was  com 
plete  and  accurate? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  so. 
And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

W.  L.  G.  SouLE,  called  as  a  witness,  and  tirst  having  been  duly 
sworn,  testitied  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Burnham: 

Q.  You  may  state  3'our  name  to  the  committee. — A.  W.  L.  G.  Soule. 

Q.  Do  you  reside  here? — A.  I  do,  sir. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  resided  here? — A.  For  the  last  four  3^ ears. 

Q.  Were  jou  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  was  your  district? — A.  It  embraced  the  southwest  corner 
of  this  town;  the  southwest  third.  It  took  in  from  Congress  street  to 
the  extreme  limits  of  the  town,  and  from  what  is  called  the  Military 
Park  up  there,  the  reserve,  down  to  the  creek. 

Q.  How  many  names  were,  as  near  as  you  can  tell,  included  in  your 
enumeration? — A.  About  3,700,  I  think;  but  I  can  not  remember  now. 

an  interpreter  used. 

Q.  How  careful  were  you  to  get  a  full  enumeration  ? — A.  I  was  very 
careful.  They  were  nearly  all  Spanish  there,  and  I  had  an  interpreter 
along  and  I  was  very  careful,  and  I  think  I  got  everybody  that  was 
living  in  the  district. 

Q.  Did  you  have  the  services  of  an  interpreter  all  the  time? — A. 
Most  of  the  time.  There  are  very  few  English-speaking  people  in 
that  section.     It  is  Spanish  and  half-breeds. 

Q.  You  complied  with  the  requirements,  and  made  a  full  and  com- 
plete census? — A.  I  did. 

Q.  And  3"our  enumeration  included  everybody  in  the  district? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  I  think  I  took  in  everybody;  I  think  I  did.  I  had  had 
experience  before  in  Kansas  and  Colorado  in  census  taking,  and  I  had 
always  been  very  careful.  I  have  been  more  so,  more  so  than  others 
would  be,  because  I  have  thought  it  would  be  necessary  to  be  very 
careful  and  accurate. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Paul  Jones,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been  duly  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Heitfeld. 
Q.  You  ma}-^  state  jouv  name  to  the  committee. — A.  M3"  name  is 
Paul  Jones. 

Q.  Are  j^ou  a  resident  of  this  Territory  ? — A.  I  am. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  here? — A.  Over  three  years  and  a  htilf . 


IG-t  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.   ^^'el■(»  you  a  rcnsus  enunicrator^ — A.   1  was. 

Q.  Did  you  take  an  oath  that  you  would  take  the  enumeration  care- 
fully and  accurately  and  to  tlie  ix^st  of  your  ability  l)efore  you  began 
j^our  work  ^— A.   1  did. 

Q.   Did  you  do  so^ — A.   I  did. 

Q.  What  was  the  number  of  persons  that  you  enumerated  in  j-our 
district? — A.  My  district  was  above  Sixth  avenue;  the  total  number 
was  1,815. 

Q.  Where  was  j'our  district!' — A.  It  is  in  the  east  part  of  the  citj^; 
east  of  Sixth  avenue.  That  was  nn^  district  over  there.  There  were 
three  districts  here  in  Tucson.  I  had  that,  Mr.  Magee  had  the  one 
next  to  that,  and  Mr.  Soule  the  next  one  to  that.  The  total  popula- 
tion, as  reported  to  us,  was  7,553. 

INTERPRETER    CxENERALLY    REQUIRED. 

Q.  What  was  the  nationality  of  the  people  in  your  district? — A.  As 
to  the  nationalit}^  of  the  people  in  my  district,  1  at  the  time  thought 
they  were  very  nearly  one-half  Mexican  or  nearlv  one-half  not  Ameri- 
can born— United  States  born — and  200  Indians  (ISO  Indians  in  the 
Indian  school,  and  some  outsiders),  and  the  rest  were  Indians  or  mixed 
Indians  and  Mexicans. 

Q.  Did  you  use  an  interpreter^ — A.  Most  all  the  time.  I  got  some- 
what familiar  with  it  and  got  along  without  an  interpreter  a  part  of 
the  time. 

And  further  the  wntness  saith  not. 

Thomas  Hughes,  Jr.,  called  as  a  witness,  first  having  been  duly 
sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
Thomas  Hughes,  jr. 

Q.  Are  you  a  native  of  Arizona? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  speak  the  Spanish  language? — A.  I  do;  yes.  sir. 

Q.  What  is  your  business? — A.  Well,  I  have  been  in  the  Post-Office 
Department  for  the  last  six  years  until  I  got  to  be  court  interpreter. 

DUTIES   OF   COURT    INTERPRETER. 

Q.  You  are  the  court  interpreter  in  this  district,  are  you? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

Q.  In  both  the  Federal  and  Territorial  courts? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Your  duties  are  to  interpret  the  testimony  of  witnesses  to  the 
court  and  jury  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  do  3'ou  ever  have  to  interpret  the  arguments  of  counsel? — 
A.   No,  sir;  I  never  have. 

Q.  Is  that  the  full  extent  of  your  duties,  just  the  interpretation  of 
the  evidence  of  witnesses!' — A.   Yes,  sir;  that  is  all. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Prof.  Frank  Yale  Adams,  called  as  a  witness,  first  having  been  duh' 
sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.   Professor,  will  you  kindly  state  your  name  to  the  committee? — 
A.    M}'  name  is  Frank  Yale  Adams. 
Q.    And  what  is  3'our  age  ? — A.  I  am  85. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  165 

Q.  You  are  president  of  the  university  ? — A.  President  of  the  Uni- 
versity of  Arizona;  3'es,  sir. 

Q.  How  many  students  have  you  this  3'ear^ — A.  We  have  enrolled 
this  year  thus  far  176  students. 

Q.   Ho^^'  many  of  them  are  girls';' — A.  AI)out  one-third  are  girls. 

Q.   And  two-thirds  are  boys? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

CURRICULUM    OF    THE    UNIVERSITY    OF   ARIZONA. 

Q.  What  is  your  eurrieulum,  stated  in  a  general  way  ? — A.  We  have 
the  difierent  departments.  We  have  the  literary  course,  which  car- 
ries the  degree  of  bachelor  of  philosophy,  and  we  have  a  scientific 
course,  which  carries  the  degree  of  bachelor  of  science,  and  we  have  a 
mining  course,  leading  to  the  degree  of  bachelor  of  science  in  mining. 

Q.  You  do  not  confer  those  degrees,  do  you? — A.  Yes,  sir;  we  con- 
fer them. 

Q.  How  long  is  j^our  college  course  ? — A.  Four  years,  the  regular 
course;  and  we  have  a  postgraduate  course  also. 

Q.  What  are  5^our  requirements  for  entering  the  freshman  year? — A. 
Practically  the  same  as  are  required  in  the  universities. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  that? — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  do. 

Q.  Well,  the  same  as  is  required  for  entrance  to  the  freshman  class 
at  Harvard?  —A.  No,  sir;  a  year  less.  The  same  as  is  required  for 
Stanford,  the  University  of  California,  etc. 

Q.  Are  there  an}"  other  universities  in  the  Territory  besides  this? — 
A.  No,  sir;  there  are  none;  this  is  the  only  college  institution  in  the 
Territory. 

Q.  What  was  your  attendance  last  year? — A.  Two  hundred  and  fif- 
teen.    The  attendance  this  year,  on  the  same  basis,  will  be  225. 

Q.  What  do  3'ou  mean  by  that? — A.  Counting  the  number  in 
attendance  this  year  at  this  time  in  proportion  to  the  number  in  attend- 
ance last  year  at  this  time. 

Q.  How  late  do  they  enter? — A.  They  enter  throughout  the  year. 
We  have  a  short  course  in  assaying  that  takes  well — that  strikes  a  good 
many.  And  a  good  many  come  in  for  that  at  the  January  semester, 
at  the  second  semester.  Of  the  176  that  we  have  entered  at  present 
probably  100  are  taking  the  full  course;  the  others  are  taking  the 
various  branches  for  sjiecial  work. 

Q.  These  students  come  from  all  over  the  Territory,  do  they? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  they  do. 

Q.  How  man}"  do  you  have  from  Phoenix? — A.  1  should  say  that 
we  have  from  Phoenix  and  the  adjoining  territory  twenty- five. 

A    SCHOOL   OF    MINES. 

Q.  And  how  many  have  you  from  Tucson  and  the  surrounding  terri- 
tory?— A.  About  seventy  or  seventy-five.  We  take  a  special  pride  in 
our  school  of  mines.  We  claim  it  is  the  most  practical  thing  in  any 
of  the  Western  States  because  of  the  proximity  of  the  mines. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Judge  George  R.  Davis  appeared  before  the  committee  and  testi- 
fied as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Judge,  will  you  please  state  your  full  name  to  the  committee? — 
A.  My  name  is  George  R.  Davis. 


166  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.   And  your  age  is  what ^— A.  Forty-one  years. 

Q.  How 'long-  have  you  lived  here,  Judged— A.  Something  over  five 
3^ears. 

Q.  Have  von  been  in  this  district  all  this  time?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  "you  been  over  the  district  very  much? — A.  I  have  been  in 
the  county  seats,  and  in  some  of  the  suburban  towns  in  the  counties— 
not  all  of  them. 

Q.  What  county  seats?--A.  I  have  been  to  Tombstone;  I  have  held 
court  there  twice  a  year. 

tombstone's  rise  and  fall. 

Q.  That  is  quite  a  town  now,  is  it  not?— A.  No,  sir;  Tombstone  is 
not  much  of  a  town;  it  is  but  a  small  village.  Once  it  was  a  great 
town,  one  of  the  great  mining  camps  of  the  West;  but  it  is  a  deserted 
village  now.  However,  there  is  an  effort  being  made  to  rehabilitate 
the  mines  and  the  town. 

LITTLE   IRRIGATION   LITIGATION. 

Q.  With  reference  to  the  civil  side  of  your  docket,  I  suppose  niost 
of  your  cases  on  the  civil  side  of  your  docket  are  mining  and  irriga- 
tion cases? — A.  There  is  very  little  irrigation  litigation  in  my  district. 
Phoenix  is  the  district  in  which  the  largest  amount  of  irrigation  litiga- 
tion is.  The  litigation  is  chiefly  mining  and  general  commercial 
practice  and  suits  in  regard  to  titles. 

Q.  On  the  criminal  side,  what  is  the  proportion  of  the  crimes  that 
are  charged? — A.  Well,  do  you  mean  the  proportion  as  to  the  class  of 
crimes  ? 

Q.  Yes,  sir;  the  proportion  of  crimes.  —A.  Well,  we  have  in  every 
county  of  the  district,  at  every  term  of  the  court,  1  might  say,  some 
larcenv  cases,  some  assault  cases,  and  generally  some  murder  cases. 

Q.  What  proportion  of  those  cases  now  are  distributed  among  the 
so-called  ' American"  and  so-called  '^Mexican"'  population?— A.  It 
would  be  my  estimate  that  three-fourths  of  the  persons  convicted  of 
felonies  belong  to  the  class  known  as  Mexicans. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

L.  C.  Hughes,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been  duly  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

B}^  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee.— A.  My  name  m 
L.  C.  Hughes. 

Q.  How  old  are  vou? — A.  1  am  59  vears  old. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  in  "the  Territory  ?— A.  Thirty-one 
vears. 

Q.  Are  you  pretty  well  acquainted  with  the  Territory  ? — A.  I  think 
I  am. 

Q.  What  is  your  business?— A.   1  am  now  the  editor  of  the  Star. 

Q.  Are  you  pretty  well  ac(iuainted  with  the  people  of  the  Terri- 
torv  ? — A.  1  think  I  am. 

Q.  Is  the  sentiment  here  pretty  unanimous  for  statehood? — A.  I 
believe  it  is. 

Q.  Was  there  any  meeting  here  yesterday,  or  recently,  concerning 
that  matter? — A.  There  was. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  167 

"TIJE    PIONEER   SOCIETY." 

Q.  What  was  that  meetino-^ — A.  The  meetijio-  was  the  uieetinjj;-  of 
"The  Pioneer  Society." 

Q.  Did  they  adopt  any  resolutions  at  that  meet! no- ^ — A.  They  did. 

Q.  What  were  they;  what  was  the  purport  of  those  resolutions? — 
A.  The  ])urport  of  those  resolutions  is  that  they  are  unanimously  in 
favor  of  statehood,  but  they  desire  to  have  some  amendments  made  in 
that  section  of  the  omnibus  bill  which  refers  to  Arizona. 

Q.  What  are  the  amendments  which  they  desire  to  have  made? — A. 
They  desire  to  have  a  larg'er  number  of  delegates  to  the  constitutional 
convention;  they  desire  to  have  an  apportionment  made  between  the 
respective  counties  on  the  Imsis  of  the  census  of  1900. 

APPORTIONMENT   A    GERRYMANDER. 

The  present  apportionment  is  a  gerrymander.  They  also  desii'e 
ample  time  from  the  time  when  the  bill  is  passed  until  the  meeting  of 
the  convention — plenty  of  time — for  the  holding  of  the  election  for  the 
delegates  to  the  convention;  plenty  of  time — a  reasonable  time  from 
the  time  of  the  election — from  the  time  the  election  takes  place  until 
the  convention  meets,  and  then  three  or  four  months  from  the  time 
the  constitution  has  been  framed  in  which  it  can  be  presented  and  dis- 
cussed before  the  people  until  it  can  be  voted  on. 

Q.  Are  they  satisfied  with  the  present  omnibus  bill? — A.  No,  sir; 
they  are  not. 

Q.  Have  you  those  resolutions  with  you? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  have  a  copy  tiled  with  our  secretary  with  your  evi- 
dence?— A.  Yes,  sir.     Now,  there  is  another  thing 

Q.  Can  you  point  out  your  objections  to  the  bill? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
the  bill  is  a  gerrymander.  The  bill  does  not  give  a  just  apportion- 
ment. For  instance,  but  three  delegates  are  given  from  Pima  County, 
and  three  are  given  from  Pinal  County,  and  two  from  all  the  other 
counties;  and  Pinia  County  has  as  much  population  and  more  taxable 
property  than  all  these  three  put  together. 

Q.  So  you  are  not  satisfied  with  the  apportionment  made  jn  the 
bill? — A.  No,  sir;  we  are  not. 

Q.  You  were  governor  of  the  TerritoiT  at  one  time? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

The  resolutions  identified  by  the  last  witness  and  left  by  him  as  a 
part  of  his  testimony  here  follow: 

Hat.l  op  Arizona  Pioneer  Society, 

Tucson,  Ariz.,  November  18,  1902. 
Hon.  A.  J.  Beveridge, 

United  States  Senator,  (Jhairuian  of  Committee  on  Territories. 
Sir:  By  direction  of  the  Arizona  Pioneer  Society  I  have  been  requested  to  present 
to  you  the  accompanying  views  and  sentiments  of  the  society  upon  the  provisions  of 
the  pending  liill  now  before  the  United  States  Senate  in  regard  to  statehood  for 
Oklahoma,  Arizona,  and  New  Mexico,"  and  to  respectfully  ask  the  favorable  consid- 
eration of  your  committee. 
I  have  the  honor  to  be, 

Very  respectfully,  your  obedient  servant, 
[seal.]  '  Sidney  E.  De  Long, 

President  of  the  Arizona  Pioneer  Society. 


1(38  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Ophiioit  of  llic  Siicii'ti/  of  Arizi»ui  I'ioiieerx,  nx  defiued  at  n  full  uiertinr;  held  at  their  rnmnx 
ill  Tiicxou,  Ariz.,  Xoreinber  18,  l'.)02,  upon  the  Mfepx  that  .should  he  taken  in  regard  to  the 
important  question  of  h ringing  Arizona  into  the  United  States  as  a  ttorn-eign  State. 

It  is  not  the  intention  of  this  society  to  take  part  as  an  association  in  politics,  nor 
is  this  deemed  a  political  question,  but  one  in  which  every  good  citizen  ought  to  feel 
a  deep  interest. 

It  is  presumed  that  all  citizens  of  Arizona  are  in  favor  of  statehood,  imder  fair  and 
just  conditions  to  all  the  people  interested,  regardless  of  their  political  or  party 
affiliations. 

There  has  been  a  bill  passed  by  the  House  of  Representatives  at  the  last  session, 
and  wliich  is  now  in  the  Senate  to  be  acted  upon  soon  after  convening  in  December 
next,  for  the  admission  of  Oklahoma,  New  Mexico,  and  Arizona  as  States  of  the 
Union,  sometimes  spoken  of  as  the  "omniljus  bill."  While  there  is  much  in  this 
bill  that  the  society  would  consider  beneficial  to  all,  it  would  seem  in  some  of  its 
provisions  to  have  i3een  prepared  hastily  and  without  proper  consideration  for  the 
rights  of  the  whole  people,  and  therefore  the  society  would  respectfully  suggest 
that  this  bill  be  amended  in  these  particulars  before  its  final  passage,  or  a  new  bill 
sul)stituted. 

First.  The  representation  of  members  for  the  constitutional  convention  called  to 
frame  a'  State  constitution  should  be  apportioned  among  the  several  counties  of  the 
Territory  according  to  the  whole  population  as  declared  by  the  census  of  1900,  unless 
a  new  special  census  be  declared  and  taken  by  due  authority;  and  it  might  be  con- 
sidered an  improvement  to  increase  the  whole  number  of  delegates  to  the  constitu- 
tional convention  from  thirty-six,  as  fixed  in  the  bill,  to,  say,  sixty.  In  the  appor- 
tionment l)y  the  "  omnibus"  bill  "  the  apportionment  by  a  political  legislature  of 
Arizona  for  its  own  members  was  adopted  and  not  according  to  the  population  of  the 
different  counties. 

Second.  The  society  would  respectfully  suggest  that  the  bill  be  amended  so  that 
the  appointment  for  delegates  to  the  constitutional  convention  be  made  among  the 
several  counties  of  the  Territory  according  to  the  population  by  the  census  of  1900. 
The  governor  of  the  Territory,  chief  justice,  and  secretary  of  the  same  shall  declare 
the  nural)er  of  delegates  for  said  convention  apportioned  to  each  county  to  be  voted 
for. 

Third.  In  taking  the  sense  of  the  people  in  an  election  for  the  adoption  or  rejec- 
tion of  the  said  constitution,  said  election  shall  be  in  not  less  than  four  months  after 
said  convention  shall  adjourn,  after  the  completion  of  its  labors,  and  held  for  the 
purpose  of  voting  upon  the  constitution,  for  or  against,  as  framed  by  said  constitu- 
tional convention. 

The  vote  shall  be  "for  the  constitution"  or  "against  the  constitution,"  and  no 
other  vote  shall  be  taken  for  any  person  or  any  other  subject  at  that  election. 

Fourth.  Should  the  vote  taken  upon  the  constitution  be  in  favor  of  its  adoption, 
as  framed  by  the  constitutional  convention,  then  and  in  that  case  the  election  for 
State  officers  and  others  to  be  elected  when  Arizona  becomes  a  State  shall  be  at  the 
next  general  election  in  1904,  for  to  call  a  special  election  would  put  the  people  to  an 
almost  useless  expense  to  reach  the  same  results. 

Report  adopted  in  full  meeting  November  18,  1902. 

[seal.]  Sidney  R.  De  Long, 

President  of  Societij. 

James  Flynn,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been  duly  sworn 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Yon  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  James  Fl3'nn. 

Q.   What  ai-e  your  official  duties? — A.   City  tax  and  license  collector. 

Q.  From  what  sources  does  the  cit}'  derive  license  revenue? — A. 
From  the  saloons  and  g'am])ling\ 

Q.  How  nmch  from  the  saloons? — A.  They  have  changed  it;  they 
pay  ^25  a  quarter  now,  license. 

Q.   And  the  next? — A.  The  gambling  privileges,  $17.50  a  month, 

SALOONS   AND    GAMBLING    HOUSES    NEVER    CLOSE. 

Q.  Are  both  of  those  open  on  Sunday? — A.  All  the  time. 
i\.  Day  and  night? — A.  As  long  as  they  want  to. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  169 

MERCHANTS    ALSO    LICENSED. 

Q.  1>  tluTc  any  other  source? — A.  The  merchants  all  pay  a  license. 

Q.  Hon-  much  do  they  pay? — A.  Accordino-  to  the  business  they  do. 
The}'  run  fi'om  ^3  to  ^45  a  quarter,  merchants'  license.  Zexkendorf 
pays  $4:5;  that  is  the  only  one  that  pa^vs  that  much. 

Q,  What  is  the  total  income  to  the  city  from  the  license  revenue? — 
A.  Well,  it  varies:  it  will  be  about  $12,000  this  year. 

Q.  How  many  saloons  have  you? — A.  Well,  it  varies;  there  is  about 
■15  now. 

Q.  How  many  yambling-  places? — A.  There  is  6  places  where  there 
is  g-amblino-  done  now.  That  varies,  too.  1  think  it  is  6  now  where 
there  is  gambling-  done  now. 

Q.  There  is  not  a  gambling  place  in  every  saloon? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Does  the  saloon  license  carry  the  gambling  privilege,  too? — A. 
No,  sir;  they  do  not  carry  the  gambling  privilege,  but  anyliody  that 
wants  to  open  a  gambling  game  he  can  open  in  any  saloon  that  he 
pleases,  but  he  has  got  to  pay  a  license. 

Q.  Is  there  any  other  source  of  revenue? — A.  Street  fakirs  pay, 
and  peddlers,  and  things  like  that. 

Q.  This  license  system  is  under  the  statute  of  the  Territory,  is  it? — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

William  Angus,  called  l\v  the  committee  as  a  witness,  and  hrst 
having  been  duly  sworn,  testitied  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee  ? — A.  My  name  is 
William  Angus. 

Q.  How  old  are  you? — A.  Twenty-six  years  old. 

Q,  Where  are  you  from? — A.  I  was  born  in  Illinois. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  here?-  A.  Five  years  and  a  half. 

Q.  You  are  superintendent  of  the  schools  of  the  city  and  county?  — 
A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  How  many  schools  have  you  in  town?— A.  There  are  1  build- 
ings: 21  teachers. 

SCHOOL    ATTENDANCE. 

Q.  And  how  many  children  are  there  enrolled^ — A.  There  were 
1,124  during  the  first  month. 

Q.  And  how  manv  in  attendance? — A.  And  the  attendance  is  a  little 
over  1>00. 

Q.  At  the  present  time,  now?— A.  Yes,  sir;  and  that  is  an  increase 
over  last  year  of  2.52  for  the  corresponding  month. 

Q.  Are"  graduates  from  your  high  school  admitted  directly  into  the 
university,  the  Territoriallauversity  ?— A.  No,  sir;  we  have  no  high 
school  here:  the  preparatory  course  in  the  university  takes  the  place 
of  a  high  school.  I  would  like  to  make  one  more  statement,  and  that 
is  that  65  per  cent  of  my  teachers  in  the  county  and  city  are  gradu- 
ates of  normals  and  universities. 

Q.  HoAv  many  are  graduates  of  normals,  and  how  many  are  gradu- 
ates of  universities? — A.  About  half  and  half;  I  can  not  say  exactly. 

Q.  Do  you  know  about  that? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  graduates  from  the  universities,  such  as  we  have 


170  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

ill  the  iNIiddlc  West,  or  Yale  iind  Harvard  ( — A.  Stanford  and  Berkeley 
universities,  and  the  normal  .schools  of  New  York  and  Arizona.' 

And  further  the  witjiess  saith  not. 

M.  P.  FiiEEMAX,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having-  been  duh^  sworn, 
testified  as  follows: 

By  the  (Jhairiman  : 

Q.  You  may  state  A^our  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
M.  P.  Freeman. 

Q.  How  lono- have  you  been  here  in  Tucson'; — A.  Nearly  twenty- 
two  years. 

Q.  What  is  youi'  business? — A.  I  am  president  of  the  Consolidated 
National  Bank. 

Q.  Is  that  the  larg-est  bank  here^ — A.  It  is  the  largest  in  the  Terri- 
tory, so  far  as  its  deposits  are  concerned;  not  the  largest  as  to  capital. 

Q.   What  is  the  extent  of  your  deposits? — A.  About  $900,(X>0. 

Q.  What  is  3^ our  capital? — A.  Capital  $50,000  and  surplus  and 
profits  §25,000.  ^ 

INTEREST    RATES. 

Q.   What  is  the  rate  of  interest  here  ? — A.  Interest  varies  from  8  to  12. 

Q.  Never  higher  than  12?  — A.  No,  sir.  About  here  there  are  some 
exceptional  loans  made  as  low  as  7  per  cent,  but  that  is  rare;  the  rate 
is  from  8  to  12. 

Q.  Loans  are  made  in  what  proportion,  what  classes  of  business  is 
meant,  what  proportion  to  the  merchants,  what  proportion  to  the 
miners,  and  what  proportion  to  the  ranchmen  ^ — A.  That  is  rather  a 
difiicult  question  to  answer. 

Q.  Well,  in  a  rough  ,vay? — A.  Well,  I  should  say  that  the  larger 
proportion  is  loaned  to  the  mercantile  interests. 

Q.  And  then  what  proportion  between  miners  and  ranchmen? — A. 
The  loans  on  mining  properties  or  mining  securities  are  very  small; 
the}"  are  confined  to  the  mercantile  interests  and  the  cattle  interests. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

(And  here,  at  the  hour  of  1.30  o'clock  p.  m.,  the  committee  arose,  to 
resume  further  hearing  at  the  city  of  Bis))ee,  Ariz.,  at  8  o'clock  p.  m. 
of  said  day.) 

Copper  Queen  Hotel,  Bisbee,  Ariz., 

Wednesday,  ^^ore//djer  19.  1902 — 82)-  m- 
At  the  above-named  place  and  date  the  committee  resumed  the  hear- 
ing of  testimony  relative  to  the  question  of  the  admission  of  said  Ter- 
ritorv  to  statehood. 

Walter  Douglass,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  liaving  been  duly 
sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Will  you  please  state  your  name  and  age  to  the  committee?— A. 
Walter  Douglass,  32  years  of  age. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  here,  Mr.  Douglass? — A.  I  have  been 
here  oil'  and  on  for  the  last  twelve  years. 

Q.  What  is  your  business  here  now? — A.  I  am  superintendent  and 
general  manager  of  the  Copper  Queen  Consolidated  Mining  Company. 

Q.  Phelps,  Dodge  &  Co.  are  the  owners  of  that  mine,  are  they 
not  \ — A.  Yes,  sir. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  171 

Q.  The  town  of  Douolass  is  named  after  your  father ?--A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.   lie  is  the  president  of  these  companies? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Is  the  town  of  Douo-lass  near  here?— A.  It  is  26  miles  from 
liere,  by  the  railroad. 

Q.  Is  that  where  the  new  smelters  are  being  erected?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Will  you  g-ive  a  brief  statement  to  the  committee  of  the  devel- 
opment here  of  the  mining  properties  of  your  company,  the  number 
of  men  employed,  and  so  forth?— A.  Well,  we  employ  approximately 
1,800  men;  at  least  there  are  1,800  men  on  the  pay  roll,  but  some  of 
them  do  not  w^ork  full  months.  We  treat  from  8(>0  to  1,00.  i  tons  of 
ore  a  day,  and  we  produced  last  year  20,(»00  tons  of  retined  copper. 

EMPLOYMENT   IN   MINES   AND   SMELTERS. 

Q.  How  many  of  those  men  are  employed  in  the  mines  and  how 
many  in  the  smelters  ?— A.  About  half  and  half —about  900  men  under- 
ground and  aliout  900  on  the  surface. 

Q.  You  were  kind  enough  to  show  the  committee  a  map  of  the  work- 
ings of  the  mine,  as  well  as  a  sample  of  the  mine  itself.  What  is  the 
extent  of  those  levels?— A.  Well,  I  can  not  say.  That  statement  that 
I  made  to  you  I  would  not  make  under  oath  at  all.  I  believe  one  of 
the  engineers  is  supposed  to  have  measured  it  up  at  one  time,  and  he 
measured  up  over  100  miles,  and  that  was  a  couple  of  years  ago. 

Q.  That  is  caused  by  the  fact  that  you  follow  the  veins  as  they 
recede? — A.  Yes,  sir.  Well,  there  are  no  veins,  as  a  matter  of  fact. 
There  are  isolated  deposits  in  the  limestone,  and  we  have  to  go  by  guess- 
work to  find  them;  but  when  w^e  iind  them  they  are  very  large. 

A    MINING    "CAMP.""' 

Q.'You  call  this  town  a  camp?— A.  Yes,  sir;  but  it  is  an  incorpo- 
rated citv. 

Q.  What  is  the  fact  as  to  its  being  the  largest  mining  camp  m  the 
Territorv? — A.  Yes,  sir;  it  is. 

Q.  AVhat  is  the  population  here?— A.  I  believe  they  registered  1,725 
votes.  It  might  have  been  1,625.  We  call  5  men  to  a  vote,  or  5  people 
to  a  vote  here,  which  would  run  it  upward  of  9,000  people.  We  w-ere 
not  incorporated  when  the  last  census  was  taken,  and  it  was  taken  with 
the  countv  at  large. 

Q.  AVhy  do  you  locate  your  smelters  at  Douglass,  25  miles  away, 
'instead  of  here?— A.  Because  the  present  smelting  works  were  too 
congested  to  do  economical  work,  and  the  water  proposition  is  a  rather 
difficult  one  here,  and  we  think  there  is  more  water  over  there. 

Q.   Water  is  necessarv  for  smelting? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  other  mining  properties  are  there  in  this  region  comparable 
to  yours  ^— A.   Well,  the  Calumet  and  Arizona  has  large  ore  bodies. 

Q.  Where  is  that  ^— A.  That  is  joining  our  mines,  and  it  erected  a 
smelter  at  Douglass  and  blew  it  in  two  days  ago. 

Q.  It  erected  its  smelter  there  for  the  same  reason  that  you  did 
yours? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Have  you  properties  at  Morenci  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Are  they  smaller  or  larger  than  here?— A.  They  are  smaller 
producers.  The  ore  is  of  lower  grade.  We  treat  more  ore,  but  we  dO' 
not  produce  more  than  two-thirds  as  much  copper. 


172  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  How  inauy  men  do  you  oniploy  there  ?— A.  Probably  about  1,200, 
altoo-ether. 

Q.  And  how  many  in  the  mines  and  how  many  on  the  surface? — A. 
It  is  generally  a))out  half  and  half. 

"MEXICAN"    AND    '"  AMERICAN ''    CAMPS. 

Q.  What  is  the  fact  about  that  camp  and  this  camp  with  reference 
to  what  is  known,  in  popular  parlance  down  here,  as  to  the  people  in 
the  two  camps  bcino-  Mexican  or  American — as  to  their  being-  Mexican 
or  American  camps  ^ — A.  Well,  Morenci  and  Clifton  used  to  be  essen- 
tially Mexican  camps,  but  that  don't  obtain  now,  for  a  very  large  pro- 
portion of  them  are  white  men. 

Q.  And  how  is  it  here? — A.  There  are  90  per  cent  white  here. 

Q.  AVhat  is  the  per  cent  of  each  over  there? — A.  I  could  not  say, 
but  I  should  think  they  might  be  about  half  and  half  over  there; 
possi))ly  40  per  cent  white  and  60  per  cent  Mexican. 

THE    BOOM    DAYS    OF   TOMBSTONE. 

Q.  Were  you  here  in  the  boom  days  of  Tombstone? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Was  it  a  place  of  considerable  consequence  about  that  time? — 
A.  Oh,  yes. 

Q.  What  is  its  condition  now? — A.  Well,  its  condition  is  altogether 
dependent  upon  what  the  development  will  do  on  the  lower  lev^els,  when 
they  get  the  water  out  of  the  mines. 

Q.  Has  there  been  an  increase  or  decrease  in  the  population  since 
the  old  days? — A.  A  very  large  decrease.  It  used  to  be  a  place  of 
12,000  people,  and  a  year  ago  it  was  a  town  of  six  or  eight  hundred 
people.     Now  it  is  a  town  of  1,200  people. 

Q.  It  depends  upon  what,  do  you  say? — A.  On  the  mining  opera- 
tions which  have  been  resumed  there;  and  the  future  prosperity  will 
depend  upon  whether  the  ore  bodies  below  the  water  level  will  be  prof- 
itable to  operate  and  work. 

Q.  Where  are  the  Commonwealth  mines  located? — A.  In  the  Sul- 
phur Springs  Valley. 

Q.  Who  are  the  owners  of  that  mine? — A.  Mr.  Penrose,  a  brother 
of  Senator  Penrose,  of  Pennsylvania;  Mr.  Beringer,  and  Mr.  Brock- 
man. 

Q.  Is  that  the  same  Mr.  Penrose  who  is  interested  in  the  reduction^ 
works  at  Colorado  Springs? — A.   Yes,  sir;  the  same  one. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

And  here,  at  the  hour  of  8.30  o'clock  p.  m.,  the  committee  arose  to 
resume  its  hearings  at  Las  Cruces,  N.  Mex.,  Thursdav,  November  20, 
1902. 


Committp:e  on  Terkitokiios, 

United  States  Senate. 
Wa.^h;mjto„.  I).  C,  Tliui'Hday,  Jheemher  J^,  WO^. 

The  committee  met  at  10.80  o'clock  a.  in. 

Present:  Senators  Beverid^e  (chairman),  Heitfeld,  Patterson.  Dil- 
lingham, Bard,  Burnham,  and  Nelson. 

Present  also:  Mr.  F.  H.  Newell,  hydrographer  of  ihv  United  States 
(xeoloo'ical  Survey. 

TESTIMONY    OF    ME.   F.   H.   NEWELL.   HYBEOGRAPHER    UNITED 
STATES  GEOLOGICAL  SURVEY. 

F.  H.  Newell,  having  been  first  duly  sworn  by  the  chairman,  testi- 
fied as  follows: 

The  Chairman.  Kindly  state  to  the  committee  your  name  and 
ofHcial  position. 

Mr.  New^ell.  F.  H.  Newell,  hydrographer United  States  Geological 

Survev. 

The' Chairman.  As  such  has  it  l>een  your  dutv  to  examine,  from  a 
scientitic  point  of  view,  the  physical  conditions  in  New  Mexico  and 
Arizona^ 

Mr,  Newell.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  And  have  you  supplemented  that  l)y  personal 
inspection ''. 

Mr.  Newell,  Yes.  sir;  since  1888  1  have  spent  consideral)le  time  in 
those  Territories  and  in  the  adjacent  States, 

WITHIN    ARID   REGION. 

The  Chairman.  Will  you  state  to  the  committee,  in  your  own  way, 
the  situation  in  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico  with  reference  to  the 
question  of  ariditv  ^ 

Mr.  Newell.  The  Territory  is  well  within  the  arid  region,  and 
agriculture  there  is  dependent  almost  entirely  upon  the  artificial  appli- 
cation of  water. 

The  Chairman.  By  the  artificial  application  of  water  you  mean 
irrigation 't 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes,  sir;  irrigation.  The  principal  source  of  supply 
is  the  Rio  Grande  and  its  largest  tributary,  the  Pecos  lliver.  The 
United  States  Geological  Survey  has  been  measuring  the  flow  of  the 
Rio  Grande  where  it  enters  New  Mexico,  and  at  various  points  along 
its  course.  We  have  also  measured  some  of  its  tributaries,- and  have 
measured  where  it  leaves  the  Territory  to  form  the  boundary  line 
between  Texas  and  the  Repu1)lic  of  Mexico.  We  have  been  making 
studies  of  the  extent  to  which  that  water  can  be  used  for  irrigation 
purposes  in  the  future. 

The  Chairman,  Will  you  state  to  the  conunittee  the  extent  to  which 
that  water  is  used  at  presents 

Mr,  Newell.  The  usual  summer  supply  is  entirely  employed,  and 
there  is  now  a  considerable  acreage  under  cultivation  for  which  there 
is  not  a  sufficient  supply  of  water  in  all  seasons.  The  spring  flow — the 
floods — in  large  part  go  to  waste,  and  water  storage  is  absolutely 
essential  to  the  future  development  of  the  Territory. 

173 


174  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

LITTLE   OH    NO    WATER   STORAGE. 

The  Chairman.   Does  water  storage  at  present  exist  there? 

Mr.  Newell.  There  is  very  little,  if  an,y,  water  storage.  There  is 
some  on  a  few  of  the  tributaries  of  the  Rio  Grande. 

The  Chairman.  What  would  joii  say  al)out  the  sufficiency  or  insuffi- 
ciency of  the  water  in  the  Rio  Grande  for  irrigation  purposes  by  means 
of  canals?  I  will  state  that  the  committee,  on  its  recent  trip,  went 
along  for  a  considerable  distance  and  observed  an  absence  of  water 
tlierc.     That  is  the  reason  I  ask  the  question. 

Mr.  Newell.  There  are  very  few  canals  of  any  consideral)]e  size  on 
tiic  Rio  Rrande.  Most  of  them  are  small  ditches  built  by  the  Indians 
or  Mexicans,  and  the  supply  is  not  sufficient  for  all  the  irrigated 
lands  in  the  latter  part  of  the  crop  season.  The  river  is  frequently 
dry  from  the  international  boundary  north.  That  is  the  normal  con- 
diton  of  the  Territory.  The  future  development  of  the  region  rests 
upon  the  feasibility  of  constructing  reservoirs  along  the  Rio  Grande, 
and  especially  in  the  northern  part  of  the  Territory.  There  are  also 
several  projects  for  water  storage  in  the  soutliern  portions  of  the  Ter- 
ritory, and  their  feasibility  will  l)e  determined  by  the  regularity  of 
the  spring  Hoods. 

The  Chairman.  Is  that  a  matter  of  certainty,  or  is  it  problematical 
and  experimental  t 

Mr.  Newell.  That  is  a  matter  which  we  are  to  determine  by  the 
surveys  now  in  progress.  We  believe  it  possible  to  construct  reser- 
voirs at  different  parts  of  the  Territory,  and  think  they  will  be  built 
within  the  next  century  or  generation.  But  no  one  system  has  yet 
been  determined  upon  a«  feasible. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  as  far  as  you  have  gotten  ? 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes,  sir. 

RIO    GRANDE   NORMALLY    DRY   IN    SUMMER. 

The  Chairman.  You  speak  aliout  the  river  being  dry.  The  com- 
mittee observed  at  El  Paso,  Tex.,  that  the  river  was  entirely  dry  and 
dusty,  and  people  were  walking  across  its  bed  instead  of  across  the 
l)ridge. 

Ml-.  Newell.  That  is  the  normal  condition  during  the  summer 
season. 

The  C'hairman.  I  believe  you  said  the  other  portion  of  the  Territory 
where  there  was  water  was  the  Pecos,  did  you  not? 

Mr.  Newell.  The  Pecos  is  the  principal  stream  of  eastern  New 
Mexico. 

The  Chairman.  Will  you  state  the  supply  of  that  stream,  and  the 
availability  of  its  water  for  irrigation,  the  character  of  the  water,  and 
other  scientific  facts  wdiich  will  enlighten  the  committee? 

Mr.  Newell.  The  Pecos  drains  an  area  of  what  is  generally  known 
as  red  beds,  in  which  there  is  a  good  deal  of  gypsum,  which  is  easil)' 
soluble  in  river  water.  The  river  itself  is  controlled  by  storage  res- 
ervoirs. There  is  one  at  Lake  McMillan,  about  12  miles  above  Ros- 
well,  and  a  secondary  one  at  Lake  Avalon,  nearer  Roswell.  Below 
that  it  receives  water  from  springs,  from  the  Hondo  and  a  number  of 
other  rivers,  and  the  flow  is  increased.  It  is  nearly  all  utilized  in  the 
canals  between  Roswell  and  Carlsbad.  Below  Carlsbad  little  water  is 
taken  from  the  river  usuall3%  the  portion  utilized  being  that  taken  out 
by  the  canals  at  Pecos  City,  south  of  the  territorial  line  in  Texas.    The 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  i<5 

water,  as  it  g'oes  toward  the  Texas  line,  is  heavily  charo-od  with  gyp- 
sum, which  is  taken  in  solution  from  the  soil  through  which  the  water 
flows.  The  storag'e  capacity  on  Pecos  River  and  the  tributaries  can 
doubtless  l)e  increased  somewhat,  but  as  to  how  much  it  can  be  increased 
no  one  knows  at  present. 

GYPSU3I    IN    THE    PECOS. 

The  Chairman.  You  speak  of  gypsum.  Please  state  to  the  com- 
mittee what  its  effect  is — whether  it  is  a  fertilizer  or  the  reverse. 
What  effect  does  gypsum  have  upon  the  soil  over  which  it  is  distributed 
by  the  flow  of  the  Pecos  River  J' 

Mr.  Newell.  G3'psum  is  frequently  known  as  a  land  plaster  and  is 
used  in  the  East  as  a  fertilizer.  It  is  beneficial  up  to  a  certain  point, 
but  above  that  point  it  becomes  destructive  to  crops.  The  soils  of 
Pecos  Valley  contain  the  gypsum  in  small  (juantities.  As  it  increases 
in  percentage  it  becomes  concentrated  and  injurious.  I  have  seen  in 
the  past  month  a  great  many  acres  of  orchard  land  and  hundreds  of 
acres  of  alfalfa  land  that  had  lieen  destroyed  hy  what  is  locally  called 
the  "■  gyp  "  deposit. 

The  Chairman.  You  have  entered  generally  into  the  two  tracts 
where  there  is  a  possibility  of  irrigation  from  streams.  I  will  ask  you 
to  state  to  the  committee  whether  there  is  any  possibility  of  agriculture 
in  any  other  portion  of  the  Territory  on  account  of  the  lack  of  water? 

MORE    AGRICULTURE    POSSIBLE. 

]\Ir.  Newell.  The  extreme  northwestern  portion  along  the  San  Juan 
River  has  a  fairly  good  water  supph^  and  there  they  raise,  near  Farm- 
ington,  verv  valuable  fruits;  but  the  area  of  agricultural  land  is 
restricted.  Outside  of  that  area  and  a  few  other  localities  where 
springs  and  streams  exist  agriculture  is  impossible. 

The  Chairman.  Here  is  a  map  of  New  Mexico  [indicating]  which 
has  upon  it  black  areas,  dotted  areas,  and  white  areas.  Is  that  map 
prepared  by  your  department  ? 

Mr.  Newell.  This  map  is  one  of  a  series  prepared  in  the  office  of 
the  United  States  Geological  Survey  from  the  records  of  the  Land 
Office.  It  shows  in  black  the  lands  which  have  passed  out  of  the 
ownership  of  the  Government  into  the  ownership  of  corporations  or 
individuals. 

MEXICAN   LAND   GRANTS. 

The  (Chairman.   What  was  done  under  the  Mexican  land  grants  ? 

Mr.  Newell.  Most  of  the  large  black  patches  on  the  New  Mexico 
map  indicate  the  area  and  location  of  the  Mexican  land  grants,  con- 
firmed by  treaty  with  Mexico.  The  smaller  dots  on  the  map  represent 
homestead  and  other  entries  made  under  the  existing  land  laws.  The 
checkerboard  pattern  in  the  central  part  of  the  Territory  represents 
the  alternate  sections  of  land  donated  to  the  railroads.  The  white  is 
the  land  still  in  the  ownership  of  the  National  Government  and  subject 
to  disposal  under  existing  laws. 

The  Chairman.  First  taking  the  black  areas,  I  will  ask  you  whether 
or  not  those  black  areas  include  all  irrigable  land,  or  all  land  which 
will  support  either  human  or  animal  life? 

Mr.  Newell.  They  include  practically  all  of  the  agricultural  land 
to  vvhich  water  can  readily  be  brought.  There  is  in  New  Mexico  prob- 
ably no  area  in  the  ownership  of  the  United  States  on  which  a  man  can 
now  make  a  living,  except  by  cattle  raising. 


17()  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

The  Chairman.  Tlic  black  areus  include  all  such  lands,  hut  are  the 
entire  portions  of  the  bhuik  areas  such  lands  as  you  have  described, 
or  is  there  a  portion  of  them  that  is  of  valued 

Mr.  Newei.l.  Considerable  portions  of  the  black  areas,  that  is,  the 
land  grants,  nvo  nonirri^-al)le  and  perfectly  arid.  The  lands  are  val- 
uable mainly  for  timber  and  i>-razino-,  but  not  for  agriculture. 

The  Chairman.  W^hat  is  the  fact  about  the  white  areas — shown  on 
the  map — which  are  subject  now  to  further  entry  and  occupation, 
as  to  whether  they  are  capal)le  of  supporting-  any  industry  or  any 
population  i 

portions  can  not  be  further  developed. 

Mr.  Newell.  The  vacant  pul)lic  lands,  shown  in  white,  can  not  sup- 
port an}'  industry  beyond  grazing,  excepting  in  the  timbered  portions. 
Some  timber  lands  belong  to  the  Government  still,  but  the  remaining^ 
area  is  composed  of  grazing  lands  and  is  not  capal)Ie  of  further  devel- 
opment. 

The  Chairman.  With  reference  to  gi-azing  lands.  A  great  deal  of 
testimony  was  given  before  the  committee  to  the  effect  that  grazing- 
was  possible  for  cattle,  up  to  a  limit  of  5  miles  on  either  side  of  a  water 
course  or  water  hole.  In  this  white  area  on  this  map  it  does  not 
appear  that  there  are  any  streams  or  water  courses.     Is  that  the  case? 

Mr.  Newell.  The  grazing  there  will  support  a  cow  to  ten,  twenty, 
or  thirty  acres,  provided  water  can  be  had  within  a  radius  of  about  5 
miles.     That  is  a  fair  journey  for  a  cow. 

The  Chairman.  You  have  already  described  the  available  water 
sources  of  the  Territory  in  answ^er  to  former  questions^ 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  You  spoke  aljout  the  timl>er  tracts.  What  is  the 
fact  about  the  timl^er  tracts  having  been  largely,  or  somewhat  at  least, 
taken  up  by  grants  to  institutions  or  otherwise^ 

Mr.  Newell.  The  timber  areas  are  rapidly  being  entered  upon 
under  the  existing  laws,  and  particularly  through  the  laws  granting* 
lands  to  the  Territory  for  certain  institutions,  and  for  the  improve- 
ment of  the  Rio  Grande. 

proportion  irrigated  area.  , 

The  Chairman.  A  question  is  suggested  to  me,  which  seems  to  be 
very  pertinent.  You  have  descri))ed  the  limit  of  the  irrigation  area. 
Cbuld  you  roughly  state  the  proportion  that  that  irrigation  area  bears 
to  the  whole  area  of  the  Territory? 

Mr.  Newell.  I  do  not  recall  the  exact  figures.  They  are  published 
in  a  report  prepared  for  the  Twelfth  Census.  It  is  my  impression 
that  about  one-fourth  of  1  per  cent  of  the  area  of  the  Territory  is  irri- 
gated. [Total  area  of  Territory,  78.374,400  acres:  amount  irrigated 
in  1889  was  208.898  acres,  or  .2(5  per  cent.] 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  the  percentage  that  is  irrigated? 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Nelson.  Let  me  ask  this:  They  have  practicall}^  irrigated 
all  that  it  is  possible  to  irrigate  under  present  conditions? 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes,  sir;  without  water  storage. 

Senator  Nelson.   Without  storage? 

Mr.  Neavell.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  Turning  now  to  Arizona.  I  understand  your  familiarity 
with  that  Territorv  to  be  the  same  as  with  reference  to  New  Mexico? 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  177 

AGRICUI.TUKE    IMPOSSIBLE    EXC^El'T   BY   IRRIGATION. 

Mr.  Newell,  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  You  may  state  to  the  committee  what  portions  of 
this  Territory  may  be  used — whether  there  is  a  possi])ilit\-  of  ag-ri- 
culture  in  this  Territory  except  l)y  irrigation^ 

Mr.  Neavell.  It  is  not  possible  excepting-  on  the  northern  portion 
of  the  Territory.  There,  at  an  elevation  of  about  seven  thousand  feet, 
settlers  are  raising  small  areas  of  potatoes,  without  irrigation;  and 
some  cereals,  cut  green,  for  feeding  cattle. 

The  Chairman.  Aside  from  that,  the  occupation  of  agriculture  is 
not  possible  there,  except  by  irrigation  from  streams.     Is  that  true? 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  In  order  to  make  this  brief,  I  will  state  that  the 
committee  understands  that  tlie  irrigated  area  is  aliout  Phoenix,  some 
on  the  Gila  River,  and  some  near  Yuma. 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  What  can  you  state  al)out  the  sufficiency  or  the 
insufficiency  of  the  water  supply  for  the  irrigation  canals  about 
Phoenix^ 

CONDITIONS   AT    PHOENIX    SERIOUS. 

Mr.  Newell.  The  condition  at  Phoenix  is  extremely  serious,  as  the 
land  under  cultivation  exceeds  in  area  the  available  supply  of  water; 
for  the  last  two  or  three  years  there  has  not  been  sufficient  water  for 
more  than  half  or  two-thirds  of  the  land  which  has  been  normalh' 
luider  cultivation. 

The  Chairman.  Is  that  because  there  is  not  enough  water  in  the  river  ? 

Mr.  Newell.  It  is  because  of  the  shrinkage  of  the  river  during  the 
past  few  years. 

The  Chairman.  Is  there  any  other  source  of  water  supply  for  irri- 
gation, except  that  water  from  the  rivei"? 

Mr.  Newell.  That  is  the  only  source  excepting  a  small  amount  of 
water  to  be  obtained  from  deep  or  artesian  wells,  and  from  shallow 
wells  in  the  gravels  near  the  river  channel. 

The  Chairman.  Could  any  appreciable  (juantity  of  ^vater  be  obtained 
in  that  way,  taking  into  consideration  the  whole  area^ 

Mr,  Newell.  That  would  probably  not  represent  more  than  1,  2,  or 
8  per  cent  of  the  entire  area  that  is  irrigable. 

The  Chairman.  Are  there  any  other  sources  available  if 

Mr.  Newell.  None,  except  by  storing  the  spring  Hoods. 

The  Chairman.  That  brings  us  back  to  the  storage  (fuestion,  which 
I  understand  is  something  to  be  determined  in  the  future,  and  which 
is  problematical. 

PHOENIX    system    MOST    PERFECT. 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  Is  it  a  fact  that  the  irrigation  s\'stem  in  use  around 
Phoenix  is  the  most  perfect  irrigation  system  in  either  of  the  two  Ter- 
ritories t 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes;  the  system  of  canals  near  Phoenix  is  the  largest 
and  most  complete  in  the  two  Territories. 

The  Chairman.  Here  is  a  map  of  Arizona,  which  I  take  it  is  also 
prepared  by  j^our  department,  and  which  has  black  areas  and  white 
areas  [producing  mapj. 

h  s  b 12 


178  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Mr.  Newkll.  Yes,  sir;  it  is  of  the  same  series  as  the  map  of  New 
Mexico,  pre\iousiy  discussed. 

The  CiiAiuMAN.  Will  you  explain  to  the  committee  what  those  black 
areas  and  white  areas  mean? 

Mr.  Newkll.  The  black  areas  of  the  map  represent  the  lands  which 
have  passed  into  the  hands  of  individuals  or  corporations.  The  amount 
is  extremely  small  with  reference  to  the  area  of  the  Territory  and  small 
as  compared  with  the  lands  in  private  ownership  in  New  Mexico.  The 
northern  part  of  the  Territory  is  crossed  b}^  the  broad  land  grant  of 
the  Atlantic  and  Pacific  Railroad  Company,  and  in  that  the  railroad  is 
the  owner  of  every  alternate  section,  but  the  selections  have  only  been 
to  a  small  extent,  as  shown  by  the  map.  All  the  lands  that  maybe 
selected  in  the  future  are  not  shown  on  the  map.  The  railroad  has 
not  selected  them,  as  I  understand,  l)ecause  the  company  does  not  wish 
to  pa}"  the  taxes  on  the  lands. 

Senator  Nelson.  Is  there  a  road  built  through  there? 

Mr.  Newell.  The  road  has  been  operated  for  fifteen  years,  more 
or  less.  The  company  has  a  right  to  select  alternate  sections  within 
the  broad  bands  running  across  the  entire  northern  half  of  the  Terri- 
tor}",  extending  for  40  miles  each  side  of  the  railroad. 

explanation  of  map. 

The  Chairman.  As  to  irrigation,  please  describe  the  condition  of 
the  rest  of  the  Territor}^  with  reference  to  the  occupation  of  agricul- 
ture outside  of  the  black  area  shown  on  the  map. 

Mr.  Newell.  Outside  of  the  black  area  there  are  practically  no  lands 
susceptible  of  irrigation,  except  in  the  contingency  of  very  extensive 
storage  in  the  future. 

The  Chairman.  Will  you  state,  if  you  can.  roughly  speaking,  what 
proportion  the  lands  under  irrigation  bear  to  the  entire  area  of  the 
Territor}"  'i 

Mr.  Newell.  It  is  probably  about  a  fourth  of  1  per  cent.  I  can 
correct  that  statement  later,  but  it  is  less  than  1  per  cent.  [Total  area 
of  Arizona  Territoiy  is  72,268,800  acres,  of  which  there  was  irrigated 
in  1899  an  area  of  185,396  acres  or  0.25  per  cent.] 

The  Chairman.  It  is  less  than  in  New  Mexico,  is  it? 

Mr.  Newell.  It  is  somewhat  less  than  in  New  Mexico. 

Senator  Heitfeld.  Have  the  lands  all  been  surve3xd  in  those 
Territories? 

Mr.  Neavell.  It  has  not  all  been  surveyed  and  subdivided.  The 
maps  show  the  extent  to  which  subdivision  has  progressed. 

Senator  Heitfeld.  How  do  you  get  all  your  detailed  information  if 
there  have  been  no  surveys  made?  Have  parties  been  sent  out  there 
to  investigate  and  segregate  the  lands,  and  to  ascertain  these  things? 

Mr.  Newell.  Lands  can  not  pass  out  of  the  ownership  of  the  Gov- 
ernment unless  they  have  been  surveyed.  This  represents  lands  actu- 
alh'  disposed  of. 

surveyed  and  unsurveyed  lands. 

Senator  Heitfeld.  You  speak  of  the  area  disposed  of,  and  that  area 
has  been  surve^'ed? 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes,  sir:  other  unsurveyed  areas  have  ))een  examined 
in  a  general  way  bj^  parties  sent  out  to  study  the  possible  supply  of  water. 

Senator  Patterson.  What  is  the  percentage  of  irrigable  lands  in 
Wj^oming? 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  l79 

Mr.  Newell.  That  depends  on  the  extent  to  which  water  storage 
is  susceptible  of  application  in  the  future. 

Senator  Patterson.  1  mean  without  water  storage. 

Mr.  Newell.  Without  water  storage  it  would  be  probably  from  2  to 
3  per  cent  of  the  area  of  the  State. 

Senator  Patterson.  Of  Wyoming? 

Mr.  Newell.  Of  Wyoming.  The  total  area  is  62,448,000  acres,  of 
which,  in  1895>,  there  were  irrigated  005,878  acres,  or  nearly  1  per  cent. 

Senator  Patterson.  What  is  the  percentage  of  irrigable  lands  in 
Colorado  i 

Mr.  Newell.  Two  and  one-half  per  cent  has  l)een  irrigated,  and 
probably  that  can  be  increased  to  4,  or  possibly  5.  per  cent  with  water 
storage.  [Total  area  of  State  is  66,332,800  acres,  of  which  there  was 
irrigated  in  1899  an  area  of  1,611,271  acres,  or  2.43  per  cent.] 

Senator  Patterson.  There  is  a  great  deal  of  water  storage  there 
now,  is  there  not? 

Mr.  Newell.  There  is  a  good  deal  on  the  headwaters  of  South  Platte 
River  near  Greeley. 

water   storage   in    COLORADO. 

Senator  Patterson.  And  a  great  deal  in  other  places,  too? 

Mr.  Newell.  Also  on  the  Arkansas  River  there  is  some. 

Senator  Patterson.  There  is  water  storage  on  the  Rio  Grande,  is 
there  not? 

Mr.  Newell.  Very  little.    I  do  not  know  of  any  existing  there. 

Senator  Patterson.  You  know  of  no  system  of  water  storage  there? 

Mr.  Newell.   I  do  not  know  of  any. 

Senator  Patterson.  Have  you  been  there  lately  ? 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes,  sir.  Some  system  is  contemplated  on  the  head- 
waters, but  I  do  not  think  any  has  been  actually  constructed. 

Se^nator  Patterson.  What'is  the  percentage  of  land  that  is  irrigated 
in  Wyoming  now? 

Mr.  Neavell.  I  think  it  is  less  than  1  per  cent. 

Senator  Patterson.  Is  it  not  less  than  one-half  of  1  per  cent? 

Mr.  Newell.  1  do  not  think  so,  because  there  are  large  areas  of 
land  which  are  wet  for  forage  and  pasturage,  which  may  be  called 
irrigated,  and  yet  which  are  not  cultivated.  These  tigures  are  given 
exactly  in  the  report  of  the  census.  I  am  simpl}^  speaking  now  from 
memory.     I  have  not  looked  at  those  tigures  for  some  months. 

Senator  Patterson.  There  are  only  a  little  over  a  million  acres 
irrigated  in  Colorado  now\ 

Mr.  Newell.  I  think  1,800,000— something  over  a  million  and  a 
half.  It  is  a  little  more  than  in  California,  Ixit  it  includes  lands  which 
are  used  for  pasturage  and  not  cultivated. 

Senator  Patterson.  The  Rio  Grande  runs  pretty  nearly  through 
the  center  of  New  Mexico  from  north  to  south,  does  it  not? 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes,  sir. 

THE    RIO    GRANDE. 

Senator  Patterson  (referring  to  map).  Branching  out  from  what  I 
will  call  the  main  artery  of  the  river  bed,  I  see  innumerable  little  hair 
lines,  some  thin  and  some  thicker.     What  do  those  lines  indicate? 

Mr.  Newell.  Those  lines  indicate  drainage  lines  which  carry  water 
during  the  stormy  seasons.  Some  of  them  are  perennial  near  their 
sources,  but  do  not  reach  the  main  river  except  in  times  of  flood. 


180  NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL. 

The  CiTAiR^rAX.  Pardon  me.  Senator.  1  wish  to  ask  one  question: 
Do  I  undei'sta'nd  you  to  say  that  except  in  times  of  flood  those  chan- 
nels are  dry  ^ 

jMr.  Newell.  Yes,  sir;  they  are  usually  dry. 

Senator  Pattkhsox.  Do  I  understand  you  to  say  that  there  is  no 
water  in  the  Kio  Grande  during  the  summer  months  through  its  entire 
extent  from  north  to  south  l 

Mr.  Newell.  There  is  usually  water  throughout  the  year  down  to 
the  White  Rock  Canyon  above  Albuquerque,  but  helow  that,  where  the 
Santa  Fe  road  approaches  the  river,  it  is  entirely  dry  in  summer. 

Senator  Patterson.  Albuquerque  is  how  far  south  of  the  northern 
boundary '. 

Mr.  Newell.  It  is  nearly  midway  of  the  distance  of  the  Territoi-y. 

Senator  Patterson.  And  the  Territory  is  about  how  long  from  north 
to  souths 

Mr.  Newell.  I  have  forgotten  the  figures. 

Senator  Patterson.  About  'IbO  or  300  miles? 

Mr.  Newell.  It  is  nearer  400,  I  should  judge. 

Senator  Patterson.  But  down  as  far  as  Albuquerque  there  is 
usually  water  in  the  Rio  Grande  perennially,  is  there  not? 

Mr.  Newell.  I  have  frequenth'  seen  it  dry  during  August  and 
September, 

Senator  Patterson.  I  suppose  those  things  are  possible,  )>ut  not  at 
all  the  usual  condition. 

Mr.  Newell.  Well,  it  j^robably  happens  one  year  out  of  three. 

Senator  Patterson.  And  for  what  length  of  time  ? 

Mr.  Newei>l.  For  from  sixty  to  ninety  days,  or  possibl}"  even  for 
six  months.  I  think  it  has  been  dry. 

Senator  Patterson.  That  is  in  the  neighborhood  of  Albu([uerque? 

Mr.  Newell.  In  the  neighborhood  of  Albuquerque,  yes. 

Senator  Patterson.  But  the  quantity  of  water  increases  as  you 
approach  the  northern  boundary  of  the  Tiu'i'itory? 

CROPS    WITHOUT   IRRIGATION. 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes. 

Senator  Patterson.  May  not  cropo  be  raised  without  irrigation  in 
New  Mexico,  say  at  an  elevation  of  7,000  feet? 

Mr.  Newell.  Frequently  you  can  raise  crops,  especialiv  cereals  cut 
green  for  forage. 

Senator  Nelson.  That  is  cutting  it  green  and  using  it  for  hay? 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes. 

Senator  Patterson.  There  are  frequent  rains,  are  there  not,  on  the 
highlands,  say  in  the  early  spring? 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes. 

Senator  Patterson.  And  also  in  July  or  August? 

Mr.  Newell.  There  are  occasional  rains  in  March  and  April.  Then 
there  is  a  season  of  summer  rains  frequent! v. 

Senator  Patterson.  Are  there  not  frequent  rains,  though,  which 
are  not  of  long  duration  ? 

Mr.  Newell.  Not  freqiunit  in  the  sense  that  we  have  them  in  the 
East.     There  are,  perhaps,  one  or  two  rains  a  month. 

Senator  Patterson.  Have  you  not  a  season  there  in  which  showers 
are  lial)le  to  occur  three  and  four  times  a  week,  covering  a  period  of 
about  six  weeks,  up  on  the  highlands  or  table-lands? 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  181 


SHOWERS   IN    NEW    MEXICO. 


Mr.  Newell.  1  have  not  seen  it  as  frequent  as  that.  In  March  and 
April  1  have  seen  showers  which  occur  perhaps  once  a  week,  in  the 
afternoon,  on  the  mountains:  Init  I  have  no  recollection  of  more  fre- 
quent showers. 

Senator  PATrERSON,  Is  there  any  particular  difi'erence  in  the  condi- 
tions between,  say,  New  Mexico  and  the  central  part  of  Colorado? 

Mr.  Newell.  New  Mexico,  as  a  whole,  has  a  lower  latitude  and 
lower  altitude,  and  so  it  is  decidedly  warmer,  and  has  decidedh^  less 
rainfall  on  the  mountains. 

Senator  Nelson.  And  is  more  arid  as  a  whole? 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes;  there  is  far  less  timber  than  there  is  in  Colorado. 

Senater  Patierson.  I  have  reference  now  to  lands,  say,  at  an  eleva- 
tion of  from  5,500  to  8,000  feet.  Is  there  any  particular  difference 
between  the  rainfalls  in  New  Mexico  and  in  Colorado  on  the  moun- 
tains, or  in  the  sections  of  countiy  of  those  elevations? 

Mr.  Newell.  There  is  little  land  at  that  high  elevation  excepting 
at  the  headwaters  of  the  Pecos  River  and  the  table-lands  of  the  central 
and  northern  part  of  the  Territory.  The  altitude  as  a  whole  is  consid- 
erably less  than  that.  Only  about  one-third  of  the  territorv  is  above 
6,000  feet,  while  over  one-half  of  Colorado  is  over  6,000  feet. 

Senator  Patterson.   What  is  the  altitude  of  Sante  Fe? 

Mr.  Newell.  1  think  it  is  about  T.OiiO  feet.     I  do  not  recall  it. 

Senator  Patterson.  From  what  streams  are  the  lands  about  Santa 
Fe  irrigated  ? 

Mr.  New^ell.  They  are  irrigated  from  the  Santa  Fe  Creek  mainh% 
which  rises  in  the  mountains  directly  above  the  town. 

Senator  Patterson.  The  Santa  Fe  Creek  is  tributaiy  to  what 
stream? 

Mr.  Newell.  It  flows  into  the  Rio  Grande  near  the  mouth  of  the 
White  Rock  Canyon. 

THE    SANTA    FE    CREEK. 

Senator  Patterson.  Santa  Fe  Creek  is  one  of  the  tributaries  to  the 
Rio  Grande  that  carries  water  for  irrigation  ? 

Mr.  Newell.  It  does  during  the  spring  months,  but  whenever  I 
have  seen  the  creek  during  the  summer  it  has  been  dry.  There  is 
water  storage  al)ove  the  city  of  Santa  Fe  for  the  waterworks  and  the 
local  supply  of  the  town. 

Senator  Patterson.  There  is  considerable  cultivation  of  lands  in  a 
small  waj"  around  Santa  Fe,  is  there  not? 

Mr.  Newell.  There  are  orchards  and  small  gardens  cultivated  by 
the  Mexicans. 

Senator  Patterson.  Are  they  irrigated  from  the  Santa  Fe  Creek? 

Mr.  Newell.  From  the  Santa  Fe  Creek,  and  from  the  storage  basin 
on  the  creek. 

Senator  Patterson.  Up  on  the  northeastern  part  of  the  Territoiy  I 
see  a  vast  number  of  what  seem  to  l)e  land  entries,  and  these  also  seem 
to  be  on  the  little  tributaries  to  the  larger  streams.  Are  those  taken 
up  for  agricultural  purposes  mostly  ? 

streams  dry. 

Mr.  Newell.  Those  are  mostl}"  taken  up  b\^  cattlemen.  I  think 
sections  16  and  36  have  been  selected  by  the  Territory  or  taken  by 
cattlemen.     In   particular,  the  entries  near  Cimarron  and  Red  rivers 


182  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

show  the  land  fenced  in  by  cattlemen  in  that  part  of  the  country.  1 
was  there  a  few  weeks  ag-o,  and  all  the  streams  that  I  saw  were  dr^'. 

Senator  Patterson.  The  streams  were  all  dry  in  Colorado  this  year? 

Mr.  Newell.   Yes. 

Senator  Patterson.  We  thought  we  were  going-  to  hav  e  a  water 
famine  in  Denver,  you  know. 

Mr,  Newell.  Yes. 

Senator  Patterson.  What  is  the  length  of  what  is  denominated  as 
the  Pecos  Valley  ? 

Mr.  Newell.  It  extends  practicall}^  from  Las  Vegas  on  the  north 
through  its  full  length  of  the  Territory, 

Senator  Patterson,  How  many  miles  ^     Put  it  in  miles. 

Mr.  Newell.  1  should  say  25U  to  HOO  miles. 

Senator  Nelson.  Where  does  the  Pecos  empty  i 

Mr.  Newell,  It  empties  into  the  Kio  Grande,  crossing  the  western 
prolongation  of  Texas, 

The  Chairman.  It  empties  into  the  Rio  Grande  in  Texas? 

Mr.  Newell.   In  Texas:  yes. 

Senator  Patterson.  That  has  the  reputation  of  being  one  of  the 
richest  valleys  in  the  West? 

cattlemen's  paradise. 

Mr.  Newell,  Y"es;  it  has  been  the  great  cattlemen's  paradise;  but 
it  is  now  being  utilized  to  a  certain  extent  for  the  production  of  fruit 
around  Roswell  and  Carlsbad. 

Senator  Patterson,  And  also  for  crops? 

Mr,  Newell,  The  general  crops  are  mainh*  for  forage.  Alfalfa  is 
the  principal  crop. 

The  Chairman,  That  is  for  fodder? 

Mr,  Newell,  Yes, 

Senator  Patterson.  Are  there  not  often  good  crops  of  forage?  ^ 

Mr.  Newell.  Y"es;  especially  of  alfalfa,  one  of  the  best  crops  raised 
there  for  feeding  cattle. 

Senator  Patterson.  AVith  the  construction  of  storage  reservoirs  you 
can  hardly  tell  the  extent,  can  you,  to  which  the  Territory  can  be 
irrigated? 

Mr,  Newell,  It  is  impossible  at  present  to  tell.  The  storage  will 
doubtless  increase  the  irrigated  area. 

Senator  Patterson.  Tremendous  volumes  of  water  come  down  those 
rivers  during  certain  seasons  of  the  year,  do  they  not^ 

large  volumes  of  water. 

Mr.  Newell.  The}"  are  ver}-  large. 

Senator  Patterson.  If  the  waters  could  ])e  conserved  a  ver}-  heavy 
percentage  of  land  could  be  put  under  irrigation,  could  it  not? 

Mr,  Newell.  We  have  been  measuring  the  amount  of  water,  and  if 
it  could  all  be  saved  several  hundred  thousand  acres  could  be  irrigated. 

Senator  Patterson.  Is  that  the  limit — several  hundred  thousand? 

Mr,  Newell,  I  think  so.  The  limit  is  the  total  amount  of  water 
which  comes  down  the  Rio  Grande  and  Pecos,  The  measurements 
at  various  points  on  the  Rio  Grande  give  the  actual  amount  of  water 
which  has  passed  that  point  during  various  years  in  succession.  Those 
figures  I  can  insert  in  the  testimony  if  j^ou  wish.     I  do  not  recall  them. 

The  ('hairmax.  Certainly.     Please  do  so. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


183 


The  %ures  referred  to  are  as  follows : 

Total  yearhj  mn-o{f,  in  acre-feet,  of  the  Rio  Grande  at  Embudo,  N.  Me.v.,  and  at  the  station 
hunnn  as  Rio  Grande,  above  the  White  Rock  Canyon. 


Year. 


1889  . 
1890. 
1891. 
1892. 
1893  . 
1894. 
1895. 
1896  . 
1897. 

1898  . 

1899  , 
1900, 
1901  , 


Mean 


At  Embudo. 


At  Rio 
Grande. a 


Acrr-fect. 
747, 070 

Acre-feet. 

1  064  377 

1  348  217 

899,  730 

608, 996 

(b) 

885, 279 
467,960 
1,107,818 
838, 166 
375, 138 
537, 381 
572,153 

(■698,072 

1,896,518 

1, 086, 933 

682, 344 

707,472 

856,554 

987, 982 


"Below  month  of  Chamu  River. 
&  Record  of  1894  is  incomplete. 


fjanuiiry  and  February  flow  is  estimated. 


Senator  Patterson.  I  wish  to  suggest,  Mr.  Chairnuui,  if  it  l)e  con- 
sidered of  value  l\v  the  committee  in  the  discussion  of  these  bills,  that 
the  Delegates  from  the  Territories  should  be  permitted  to  interrogate 
the  witness.  Those  of  us  who  do  not  live  there  are  not  familiar  with 
the  salient  points  of  the  subject,  so  far  as  irrigation  is  concerned,  and 
we  can  not  bring  out  that  which  I  think  should  be  brought  out. 

The  Chairman.  I  do  not  know  what  the  feeling  of  the  committee  is 
about  that.  That  would  be  an  unusual  procedure.  I  think  the  Sena- 
tor has  drawn  out  all  that  a  skillful  lawyer  or  a  man  familiar  with 
the  conditions  could  draw  out.  I  think  the  committee  is  competent 
to  ask  such  questions  as  may  be  necessary. 

Senator  Patterson.  Well,  I  simply  submit  that.  I  move,  Mr. 
Chairman,  that  Mr.  Rodey  and  Mr.  Mark  Smith  be  invited  to  interro- 
gate this  witness  upon  these  subjects  after  the  testimony  of  the  wit- 
ness is  extended. 

Senator  Nelson.  I  think  it  is  an  unusual  procedure  to  allow  other 
parties  to  come  and  interrogate  a  witness  before  a  committee. 

Senator  Heitfeld.  Suppose  the  Delegates  be  permitted  to  be 
present  to  suggest  questions  to  the  Senators. 

Senator  Patterson.  I  will  modify  the  motion,  Mr.  Chairman.  I 
move  that  we  be  permitted  to  cross-examine  the  witness  further,  and 
that  to  enable  us  to  do  so  we  be  permitted  to  invite  the  Delegates  from 
the  two  Territories  to  be  present  that  we  may  receive  from  them  such 
suggestions  as  will  be  pertinent. 

The  Chairman.  Of  course,  Senator  Patterson,  it  is  your  right  to 
cross-examine  the  witness  further  to  any  extent  you  like  without  a 
motion.  As  to  inviting  the  Delegates  to  be  present,  as  Senator  Nel- 
son has  suggested,  that  is  an  unusual  proceeding,  and  I  think  one  that 
is  entirely  unnecessary.  As  far  as  the  Senate  is  concerned,  it  is  per- 
haps unprecedented.  '  I  do  not  think  that  should  be  done..  The  right 
to  cross-examine  the  witness  to  any  extent  you  desire  is  yours. 

Senator  Patterson.  I  am  groping  around  in  these  dark  areas. 
[Laughter.] 

The  Chairman.  These  are  scientific  facts. 

Senator  Patterson.  Yes:  but  sometimes  scientific  facts  are  not  facts. 


184  nj:w  statehood   hill. 

Senator  Nklsox.   I   wanted  to  call  attention   to  another  fact,  and 

that  is 

Senator  Patterson.  Pardon  nie  for  a  moment.  A\  hat  1  mean  is 
that  if  we  want  to  ,i>-et  an  intellig'ent  knowledge  of  the  sul)ject-matter, 
such  a  cross-examination  as  I  suogest  may  develop  many  things  that 
would  change  and  modify,  not  the  testimony  of  the  witness.  ))ut  the 
conclusions  that  would  be  drawn  from  all  the  testimony  combined. 

Senator  Melson.  What  I  wanted  to  say  in  connection  with  that  was 
this,  Senator  Patterson.  You  are  aware"of  the  fact  that  we  have  been 
exceedingly  limited  as  to  time  by  reason  of  the  arrangement  that  was 
made  las't  "^session.  This  bill  is  to  be  taken  up  next  Wednesday,  and 
the  report  of  the  committee  ought  to  be  made  by  that  time.  The  tes- 
timony ought  to  ])e  printed,  ancl  if  we  delay  much  further,  we  can  not 
get  it  printed  and  ready  before  the  Senate  takes  up  the  matter. 

Senator  Patterson.  I  will  not  press  the  matter. 

Senator  Nelson.  I  have  heard  a  great  many  Senators  express  the 
desire  that  the  testimony  be  printed,  and  the  report  of  the  committee 
made,  by  next  Wednesday. 

results  of  rainfall. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Newell,  concerning  the  rainfalls  on  the  plains, 
what  becomes  of  those  rainfalls  on  the  plains^ 

Mr.  Ne-well.  a  considerable  portion  of  the  rain  sinks  into  the 
ground;  another  part  evaporates,  and  another  small  amount  runs  away, 
forming  streams  if  there  are  channels  through  which  it  can  readily 
escape. 

The  Chairman.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  within  an  hour  after  these  rains 
fall  on  the  plains  the  plains  are  as  dry  and  dusty  as  before^ 

Mr.  Newell.  Frequenth';  quite  dry. 

The  Chairman.  Senator 'Patterson  asked  you  concerning  fodder 
raised  without  irrigation,  to  which  you  responded  that  that  was  somewhat 
true.     I  want  to  ask  you  if  that  is  not  true  along  the  streams  only. 

Mr.  Newell.  As  1  understood  the  question  it  was  as  to  whether  the 
fodder  raised  without  irrigation  was  not  valua})le.  It  is  extremely 
valuable. 

The  Chairman.  But  where  it  is  raised  without  irrigation  it  is  along 
streams  ? 

where  fodder  is  raised. 

Mr.  Newell.  Usually  it  is  along  lands  which  are  subirrigated  or 
wet  b}'  natural  sources. 

The  Chairman.  You  were  interrogated  about  the  Santa  Fe  Creek 
as  to  its  being  a  tributary  to  tlie  Kio  Grande  River  and  carrying 
water  i^erennially.  The  committee  inspected  that  creek  or  river  at 
Santa  Fe.  We  found  when  we  got  there  that  a  thin  streamlet  of  water, 
perhaps  2i  feet  in  width,  and  of  scarcely  appreciable  depth,  was  all 
there  was  of  it.     Could  there  be  any  irrigation  from  that  ( 

Mr.  Newell.  The  water  you  saw  was  probably  the  return  seepage 
from  the  irrigation  above.  "That  in  turn  is  turned  into  small  ditches 
below,  which  catch  every  drop  which  comes  down. 

The  Chairman.  You  spoke  about  Pecos  Valley  extending  from  Las 
Vegas  to  the  southern  part  of  the  Territory.  What  is  the  fact  as  to 
the  valley  near  Las  Vegas  being  practically  dry  and  arid  and  without 


I     \ 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  185 

veiy  much  liabitation?  What  is  the  fact  as  to  the  water  at  that  point 
being'  scarcely  appreciable;! 

Mr.  Newell.  The  water  at  that  point  is  ver}-  scanty.  It  is  used 
largely  in  the  ditches  above  Las  Vegas.  There  is  usually  ver}-  little 
water  in  the  channel.  Below  there  the  springs  come  in  and  reenforce 
the  flow. 

The  Chairman.  So  that  apart  from  the  scarcity  of  water  in  the 
streams  about  which  we  have  spoken,  how  far  away  from  the  streams, 
if  there  was  enoug-h  w^ater,  could  irrigation  ])e  carried  on  l)v  canals? 

Mr.  New^ell.  It  depends  wholly  upon  the  topography  of  the  country. 
As  a  rule  the  irrigation  ditches  rarely  depart  more  than  a  few  miles 
from  the  stream.  There  are  cases  in  Kansas  where  they  can  go  off  at 
I'ight  angles  to  the  stream. 

RESULTS   OF   FLOODS. 

The  Chairman.  The  committee,  in  taking  testimony  concerning  the 
dams  above  Carlsbad,  w^here  12,500  acres  were  under  irrigation,  were 
told  by  the  president  of  the  irrigation  company  that  the  dams  were 
sometimes  impaired  and  destroyed  by  sudden  floods  of  water.  What 
about  that^ 

Mr.  Newell.  The  dams  have  gone  out  once  through  sudden  flood, 
because  they  did  not  have  sufficient  spillway.  Since  then  thespillwa}^ 
has  been  greatly  enlarged,  and  the  dams  are  practically  safe. 

The  Chairman.  Speaking  of  Colorado,  are  not  considerable  areas 
of  land  there  cultivated  and  subject  to  grazing,  without  irrigation,  b}^ 
the  natural  process  of  rainfalls 

Mr.  New^ell.  On  the  lands,  particularl}"  on  the  divide  between 
Denver  and  Pueblo,  there  are  considerable  areas  where  dry  farming 
of  cereals  is  carried  on,  and  then  there  are  considerable  areas  which 
are  grazed,  but  not  cultivated,  and  where  the  grazing  is  of  excellent 
quality. 

COLORADO    RAINFALL    SUFFICIENT   FOR   GRAZING. 

The  Chairman.  The  rainfall  is  sufficient  without  irrigation? 

Mr.  New^ell.  Sufficient  for  grazing,  and  even  to  cut  a  little  hay. 

The  Chairman.  Going  out  from  Denver  to  the  east  on  any  line  of 
railroad,  that  \'ast  tract  of  territory  there  appears  to  a  casual  observer 
to  be  a  fine  grazing  country,  without  irrigation,  simply  Avith  the  natural 
rainfall.     Is  that  true  i 

Mr.  Newell,  That  is  true. 

Senator  Patterson.  That  is  all  arid  east  of  the  mountains,  except 
where  it  is  irrigated  from  streams? 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  In  respect  to  Arizona,  I  understand  you  to  say  that 
the  grazing  lands  there  must  be  near  a  water  hole  or  water  course  ? 

Mr.  Newell.  Thej^  must  be  within  a  day's  journey. 

Senator  Heitfeld.  Would  not  that  be  the  same  condition  with 
respect  to  Colorado  and  other  States  ? 

Mr.  Newell.  Yes;  general  grazing  on  the  plains  is  impracticable 
unless  they  have  a  great  man}'  wells. 

The  hour  of  12  o'clock  having  arrived,  the  committee  adjourned. 


^■1 


32" 


^^i<^ 


S  -DOC-J4  .   57    2 


yi 


OHNiA 


LIBI^iki^^ 


S  Doc,  J.<S    87    2 


TERRITORY  OF  OKLAHOMA. 


On  Train,  Woodward,  Okla., 

Saturdai/  Mmiiing^  Novemher  22^  1902. 
During-  the  stop  of  the  train  at  the  above-named  place  on  the  above 
date  the  conniiittee  resumed  its  hearings,  and  heard  the  following- 
witnesses  on  the  subject  of  the  admission  of  Oklahoma  Territor}'  to 
statehood: 

Oscar  Von  Fersex,  first  having-  been  duh"  sworn,  testified  as  fol- 
lows: 

'Qy  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Oscar  Von 
Fersen  is  my  name. 

Q.  Where  do  you  live  ? — A.  Woodward,  Woodward  County;  lam 
a  farmer. 

AGRICULTURE  THE    CHIEF   OCCUPATION. 

Q.  What  is  the  occupation  of  the  people  in  this  county  ? — A.  Mainly 
agriculture  at  the  present. 

Q.  What  is  the  population  of  this  county?— A.  As  near  as  we  can 
estimate,  about  oo.OOO  people. 

Q.  What  has  been  the  increase  in  the  last  two  years  here? — A.  It 
has  doubled  itself. 

Q.  What  reason  have  you  for  saying-  that?  What  investigation 
have  you  made  of  that? — A.  1  have  been  in  the  habit  of  riding  around 
over  the  countrv,  especially  in  the  last  campaign. 

Q.  Did  you  take  part  in'the  last  campaign.— A.  Yes.  sir;  and  1  see 
the  number  of  men  coming  in,  and  the  number  of  tilings  in  the  land 
office. 

Q.  The  committee  observes  here  that  you  have  a  very  tine,  new  court- 
house? It  is  a  court-house,  is  it  not?— A.  Yes,  sir;  it  is  a  8^0,000 
court-house. 

Q.  What  is  the  condition  of  the  payments  for  that^ — A.  There  is 
no  interest  to  be  paid,  and  it  is  to  be  paid  in  yearly  installments;  there 
is  no  limit,  but  I  understand  it  is  ten  years. 

IMlSnCRATION. 

Q.  Is  there  still  immigration  coming  in? — A.  Yes,  sir;  there  is  still 
immigration  coming-  in;  the  tilings  average  from  150  to  400. 

Q.  From  Avhat  part  of  the  United  States  does  it  come  ? — A.  Missouri, 
Kansas,  Illinois,  Iowa,  and  the  Central  ^V^est. 

Q.  What  crops  do  you  raise  here?— A.  We  raise  wheat,  rye,  corn, 
oats. 

187 


188  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  Can  you  make  any  statement,  from  your  observations,  as  to  the 
amount  shipped  from  "this  points— A.  Only  what  1  know  from  the 
orain  ))uyers.  The  grain  l)uyers  say — there  are  live  firms  connected 
m  a  dirt'erent  shape  with  the  grain  buying  business. 

Q.  What  about  your  shipments  of  castor  beans  ? — A.  Mr.  Martmson 
shipped  IS  carloads  in  one  week,  and  he  has  averaged  from  3  to  7  car- 
loads a  week  during  the  season. 

Q.  How  many  schools  do  you  have  here? — A.  We  have  in  the  neigh- 
borhood of  at  least  35,  40,  or  50  schoolhouses.  It  is  scattered  through- 
out the  country  districts. 

Q.  Are  the  farms  taken  up  here  in  quarter  sections? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
W'C  have  some  filings  outside  of  that. 

''WILD   COWBOY    DRIVEN    OUT." 

Q.  Is  there  any  further  statement  which  you  desire  to  make  to  the 
committee  in  addition  to  the  answers  you  have  given?— A.  I  believe 
that  this  is  a  fair  estimate  that  I  have  made  here,  and  think  that  we  will 
do  better;  that  we  will  increase  in  population  and  wealth,  and  in  all 
that  makes  up  a  civil  community.  In  fact,  in  the  last  four  years  I  have 
been  here  we  have  driven  out,' to  a  certain  extent,  the  gambling  part 
of  the  community,  and  we  ha^e  made  it  a  good,  quiet  community. 
The  wild  cowboyof  the  West  has  been  driven  out,  and  his  land  that 
he  occupied  is  being  taken  up  by  actual  settlers. 

Q.  What  about  the  cattle  grazing  being  supplanted  by  the  pure 
agriculturist? — A.  In  my  immediate  vicinity  north  of  Woodward  and 
west  there  has  been  25  of  these  so-called  ranches  on  Government  land, 
and  they  have  been  driven  out  by  the  actual  settlers  coming  in  and 
filing  on  the  land. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

A.  G.  Cunningham,  called  as  a  witness,  and  first  having  been  duly 
sw^orn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairivian: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  A.  G.  Cun- 
ningham is  my  name. 

Q.  W^hat  is*^  vour  age  ? — A.  Sixty  years  of  age. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  lived  here  ?— A.  Since  the  10th  of  November, 
1893,  in  this  county. 

Q.  The  population  of  this  county,  as  given  by  the  census,  is  what? — 
A.  About  17,0(10. 

Q.  It  is  estimated  here  at  33,000?— A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  Do  you  believe  that  to  be  a  correct  estimate? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  is  your  reason  for  it?— A.  From  traveling  all  over  the 
country,  and  then  taking  our  vote  in  the  county,  and  knowing  that 
there  was  not  over  00  per  cent  present  of  our  vote. 

Q.  What  about  the  filings  in  the  land  ofiice?— A.  The  filings  in  the 
land  office  run  as  high  as  300  a  month  and  sometimes  over  that,  and 
it  has  been  coming  in  at  the  maximum  for  two  years  and  a  half. 

Q.  The  committee  understands  the  occupation  of  the  people  of  this 
countv  to  be  chieflv  agriculture ?— A.  Chiefly  agriculture;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  'What  is  the  condition  of  this  county  as  to  the  water  supply?— 
A.   We  are  fairly  well  supplied  wath  water. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  189 

DO    NOT    DErEND   ON    IRKIGATION. 

Q.  You  dopoiul  very  little  on  irrig-ation  ^— ^A.  We  do  not  depend 
on  irrigation  at  all.  \Ve  are  not  what  is  called,  in  the  eastern  part  of 
the  Territory,  the  arid  belt  at  all. 

Q.  What  are  the  crops  that  are  raised  here^ — A.  Well,  wheat,  corn, 
oats,  kathr  corn,  Milo  maize,  sorghum,  and  castor  beans.  We  do 
raise  a  little  cotton  in  the  southern  part  of  the  county. 

PLENTY    OF    RAIN. 

Q.  Do  you  have  plenty  of  rain  ^ — A.  Yes,  sir;  we  have  plenty  of 
rain. 

Q.  Streams  are  fairly  well  distributed,  are  they? — A.  Yes.  sir; 
starting  from  the  Cimarron,  on  the  north,  we  have  the  Canadian 

Q.  About  how  many  children  have  you  in  the  schools  in  the 
county  ? — A.   I  do  not  know. 

Q.  How  many  children  have  you  in  the  schools  in  the  town  here? — 
A.  1  think  we  have  about  450. 

Q.  Do  you  know  how  many  schools  you  have  in  the  county  ? — A. 
Well,  our  school  districts  run  away  beyond  a  hundred,  but  I  think 
there  are  about  seventj^-five  schools  being  conducted  at  this  time. 

A    FARMING    COMMUNITY. 

Q.  The  conmiittee  understands  that  this  is  a  farming  comnuulity, 
pure  and  simple? — A.  That  is  all  thei-e  is  to  it. 

SHIPMENT    OF   PRODUCTS. 

Q.  What  about  the  shipments  of  products  from  this  point;  of  what 
do  they  consist,  chiefly?— A.  Well,  they  consist  of  Avheat,  rye,  broom 
corn,  oats,  and  castor  beans. 

Q.  .What  about  you  broom-corn  industry?— A.  Well,  1  presume 
there  are  5,(»00  acres  in  broom  corn  now — this  year. 

Q,  How  many  acres  in  this  county,  at  a  rough  guess,  are  under 
careful  cultivation  ? — A.  I  could  not  tell  you. 

Q.  Could  you  give  an  estimate? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  Can  you  tetl  us  what  the  acreage  of  the  county  is? — A.  No,  sir; 
1  do  not  know. 

Q.  What  fractional  part  of  this  county  is  now  under  actual  cultiva- 
tion?— A.  Well,  1  should  sav  three-fourths  of  it. 

Q.  And  land  still  left ^— A.  And  land  still  left;  yes,  sir. 

Q.  xlnd  people  coming  in?— A.  Yes,  sir.  We  are  expecting  an 
excursion  of  50  people  from  Iowa  to-day. 

Q.  Are  they  farmers? — A.  Yes,  sir,  and  they  come  well  provided 
to  enter  land  and  make  good  homes. 

Q.  Do  you  desire  to  make  any  other  statement  to  the  comiuittee  in 
addition  to  what  you  have  said  in  answer  to  these  questions  ?— A.  Noth- 
ing, only  we  would  like  to  have  statehood.  I  know  this,  and  I  want 
to  call  this  couunittee's  attention  to  this  fact:  1  am  the  referee  in 
bankruptcy,  and  in  the  last  four  years  I  have  had  l)ut  three  cases  in 
bankruptcy. 


190  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  Anythinu'  else  that  you  have  in  mincr^ — A.  Nothing,  except  we 
have  had  no  business  faihires  that  occur  to  nie  at  this  time. 

Q.  Do  you  know  what  the  deposits  are  in  the  banks  here^ — A.  The 
deposit  in  the  First  National  l^ank  is  about  $80,000  and  in  the  Gerlach 
Bank  at)out  |T<>,00(>. 

Q.  Are  there  are  other  statements  30U  would  like  to  make?— A.  I 
believe  that  is  all. 

Q.  What  al)out  the  court-house? — A.  We  are  on  a  cash  basis;  I  say 
it  is  paid  for. 

MONEY   TO    PAY   THE    DEBT. 

Q.  What  do  you  mean  by  that? — A.  We  have  money  enough  in  the 
treasury  at  this  time  to  pay  off  all  the  indebtedness  of  the  county  and 
give  us  a  handsome  balance;  but  this  court-house  was  ])uilt  for  $40,000, 
and  the  jail  added  to  it,  and  the  furnishings  cost  about  $50,000,  and 
when  the  installments  come  up  there  is  always  money  left  to  pay  it 
and  leave  the  $30,000  surplus. 

Q.  And  that  does  not  need  to  be  impaired  for  the  payment  of  your 
bonds? — A.  It  is  a  sacred  fund;  that  can  not  be  touched. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

(Mr.  David  P.  Mennon  suggested  to  members  of  the  committee,  in 
private  conversation,  that  the  lands  set  apart  to  the  Territory  of 
Oklahoma  in  the  pending  statehood  bills  or  in  the  organic  act  for  the 
public  institutions  of  the  Territory  at  $20  per  acre  would  amount  to 
$7,000,000,  and  would  be  amply  sufficient  for  every  purpose,  and  that 
there  should  be  in  the  act  foi'  the  admission  of  the  Territory  as  a  State 
a  clause  that  these  lands  should  not  be  sold  for  less  than  $20  per  acre, 
because  they  were  absolutely  worth  twice  that  amount.) 

Further  hearing  was  here  adjourned. 


Lee  Hotel,  Oklahoma  City,  Okla., 

Monday  Morning^  Novemher  ^4,  1^^^ — ^^  ''^-  ^'^• 
The  committee  resumed  hearing  of  statements  and  testimony  with 
respect  to  the  admission  of  Oklahoma  and  Indian  Territories  to  state- 
hood at  the  above-named  place  and  date. 

Anton  H.  Classen  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  committee  and, 
first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q,  You  maj"  state  to  the  committee  your  name,  age,  residence,  and 
what  your  business  is. — A.  My  name  is  Anton  H.  Classen.  My  busi- 
ness is  at  this  time  street  railway  and  in  the  realty  business — building 
a  street-railway  line  here. 

Q.  How  long  have  you  been  in  the  Territory? — A.  Since  April  22, 
1899. 

Q.  What  is  your  familiarity  with  the  people  and  industries  of  the 
Territory? — A.  Well,  it  is  medium;  fair. 

population. 

Q.  Now,  sir,  if  you  have  any  statement  to  make  to  this  committee 
that  will  give  the  committee  any  enlightenment  on  any  phase  of  the 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  191 

.subject  before  it  we  will  be  glad  to  hear  you. — A.  Well,  in  regard  to 
thi.s  question  of  .statehood,  we  have  a  population  for  Oklahoma  of  about 
500,000  people;  we  have  about  an  equal  number  in  the  Indian  Ter- 
ritory; and  the  way  the  two  Territories  are  located,  the  western  half 
of  it — Oklahoma  Territory  proper — is  mainly  agricultural;  and  the 
Indian  Territory,  it  has  a  great  deal  of  mineral  wealth,  such  as  coal 
and  iron,  and  marble,  and  minerals  of  that  kind;  and  I  feel  that  the 
two  Territories  would  make  one  great  State. 

DO    NOT    NEED    STATEHOOD. 

Q.-  Well,  have  3'ou  any  views  on  statehood  or  the  admission  of 
States  at  the  present  time^ — A.  My  view  would  be  this,  personally: 
That  I  am  satisfied  with  the  Territory,  and  we  do  not  need  statehood 
at  this  time,  and  my  reason  for  that  is  this,  that  we  have  at  the  pres- 
ent time  a  4  per  cent  limit;  we  can  not  vote  bonds  at  any  time  for 
more  than  4  per  cent;  and  if  we  have  some  time,  until  we  become 
settled,  we  can  go  into  statehood  without  any  indebtedness,  or  ver}' 
little  indebtedness.  Everything  is  in  good  condition;  we  are  doing 
well;  I  think  we  are  as  prosperous  as  any  part  of  the  Union,  and  I 
could  not  ask  on  that  account  to  have  it  changed. 

Q.  Your  idea  on  that  point  seems  to  be  this:  That  if  you  can  go  on 
as  you  are,  as  prosperous  as  you  are,  that  when  3^ou  do  become  a  State 
you  will  have  all  that  you  desire,  without  any  indebtedness? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  that  is  the  idea.  At  this  time  there  are  a  great  many  railroads 
building,  and  the  chances  are  that  we  would  vote  railroad  bonds.  The 
different  towns  are  ambitious  to  get  all  the  railroads  that  thev  can,  and 
they  would  simply  bid  against  one  another  to  vote  the  bonds,  and  I 
think  that  at  this  time  it  would  be  better  if  we  did  not  get  statehood 
until  these  railroads  are  built. 

Q.  In  other  words,  you  think  the  railroads  will  be  built  without  the 
bonds? — A.  Yes,  sir,  1  do;  that  has  been  done  heretofore;  what  little 
we  have  raised  for  them  we  have  raised  by  donation. 

Q.  What  do  \"ou  think  is  the  view  of  the  people  upon  that  ques- 
tion ? — A.  I  think  that  outside  of  the  politicians  there  is  very  little  stir 
here  upon  that  question.  I  am  satisfied  that  the  majority  of  our  busi- 
ness men  here,  our  wholesalers  and  these  people,  are  contented.  In 
this  county  they  have  paid  verj^  little  attention  to  it.  They  are  bus}" 
and  contented,  and  the  farmers  are  in  the  same  condition. 

APPOINTEES   GOOD   MEN, 

Q.  Do  you  think  of  any  further  statement  which  you  care  to 
make? — ^A.  Nothing  else;  only  I  w^ould  .say  this,  as  to  the  political  side 
of  it,  I  would  just  add  this:  I  would  .say  that  our  appointees  are  good 
men,  and  they  are  doing  well.  In  other  words,  the  appointees  that 
we  have  here,  almost  without  exception — I  am  acquainted  with  all  of 
them  in  the  Territory,  and  I  do  not  know  of  an}"  of  them  at  this  time, 
of  any  of  the  Federal  appointees  here — that  they  are  men  that  we  could 
not  improve  ujDon  by  electing  them.  I  think  they  are  excellent,  and 
as  a  Republican  I  am  satisfied  with  the  Administration.  There  is 
hardly  an  exception;  I  do  not  know  of  a  man. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 


192  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

William  M.  Newell  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  committee, 
and,  first  having'  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee.— A.  William  M. 
Newell. 

Q.  And  your  age  and  place  of  residence^ — A.  Fort \' years  of  age; 
Norman,  Okla. 

Q.   How  far  is  that  from  this  city '. — A.  Seventeen  miles. 

Q.  If  you  have  any  statement  which  you  desire  to  make  on  this  ques- 
tion of  statehood — any  opinion,  or  your  reasons  for  that  opinion — if 
you  will  state  them  briefly  and  concisely,  we  will  ])e  glad  to  hear 
you. — A.  Well,  on  what  point  more  particularly^ 

FOR   >>-IXGLE    statehood. 

Q.  Well,  we  understand  you  wanted  to  be  heard. — A.  So  far  as  our 
people  arc  concerned  in  the  southern  part  of  the  Territory,  we,  of 
course,  want  statehood  as  soon  as  we  can  get  it,  but  we  want  that 
statehood  with  the  Indian  Territory.  We  recognize  the  fact  that  Okla- 
homa Territory  in  itself,  by  itself,  is  too  small  to  be  a  State.  It  would 
be  a  burden  to  the  people  on  account  of  taxation.  We  feel,  further, 
that  the  two  Territories  together  would  make  one  good  average  West- 
ern State.  And  the  proximity,  the  physical  relations  of  the  two  Ter- 
ritories are  such  that  they  ought  to  be  brought  in  together  as  one 
State.  They  lie  in  such  proximity  that  we  can  readily  be  brought  in; 
that  is,  the  intelligence,  Imsiness,  etc.;  and  the  main  thing  is  the 
expense  to  the  people  in  supporting  a  State  government  with  the 
small  territory  which  we  now  have. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Your  idea  is  that  if  the  two  are  joined  in  one  State  the  expense 
of  the  State  government  would  l)e  practically  halved? — A.  Yes,  sir. 
They  are  neither  one  of  them  able  to  support  State  government  alone. 
The'  Indian  Territory  is  like  Oklahoma  Territory — we  are  poor  yet. 
The  taxable  property  is  entirely  insufficient,  except  at  a  veiy  high 
rate  of  taxation,  to  support  a  State  government. 

assessed  valuation. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  What  is  the  assessed  Aalue  of  all  your  pro})erty  ^— A.  Well,  it  is 
in  the  neighl)orhood — I  can  not  give  you  that  real  accurately,  but  in 
the  neigh i3orhood  of  ^T(i,(M)0,< )<»().  It  may  be  a  little  above  that  since 
we  have  taken  in  the  additional  territory  out  here.  Our  popidation, 
with  the  additional  territory  in  the  west  that  was  taken  in  this  fall  a 
year  ago,  will  l)e  about  (JOO^OdO.  or  in  the  neighborhood  of  that. 

views  of  the  teople. 

By  Senator  DiLLiNanA:M: 
Q.   How  far  are  the  opinions  which  you  have  expressed  on  this  sub- 
ject the  opinions  of  the  people  in  your  section  of  the  Territory^ — A. 
1  believe  that  I  am  safe  in  saying  that  nine-tenths  of  our  people — I 
mean  b}"  that  not  the  Avomen  and  children,  but  the  business  men  of 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  193 

tho  count_y  and  1113'  part  of  the  Territory — are  in  coii.sonance  with  the 
view.s  that  I  have  expressed.  There  are  a  few  who  want  statehood 
with  the  Indian  Territory  ultimately  attached.  There  is  some  feel- 
ing-— there  has  been  some  feeling  engendered  as  the  result  of  discuss- 
ing that  question,  and  they  do  not  want  to  ])e  made  a  tail  to  the  kite 
and  come  in  piecemeal,  and  they  want  to  come  in  on  an  eijuality  with 
us  and  begin  \'()ting  with  us.  And  I  believe  that  that  will  create  and 
engender  a  feeling  that  will  continue  a  long  time  if  they  are  brought 
in  that  ^vay,  brought  in  piecemeal. 

Q.  That  suggestion  of  yours  seems  to  be  based  on  the  idea  that 
some  time  the  Indian  Territory  will  ])e  made  a  part  of  Oklahoma? — 
A.  I  say,  that  some  of  tiiem  favor  that. 

Q.  Well,  your  idea  seems  to  be  that  there  is  no  idea  in  this  question 
of  separate  statehood,  but  of  ultimate  single  statehood? — A,  Yes,  sir; 
I  think  that  is  right.  There  is  no  feeling  of  that  kind  at  all.  You 
can  not  find  any  such  feeling  as  that  in  the  southern  part  of  the 
Territor3\ 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

D.  H.  Wilson  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  committee,  and,  first 
having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

B}^  Senator  Dillinc^ham: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  and  age  to  the  committee. — A.  My 
name  is  D.  H,  Wilson,  and  I  am  35  3'ears  old. 

Q.  And  your  residence  is  what? — A.  At  Vinita. 

Q.  What  distance  is  that  town  from  Guthrie? — A.  Well,  that  is  183 
miles  from  here,  and  30  miles  from  here  to  Guthrie;  it  would  be  213 
miles. 

Q.  And  you  are  in  what  county  ? — A.  It  is  in  the  Cherokee  Nation. 

SIZE    OF   VINITA. 

Q.  How  large  a  town  is  Vinita? — A.  Why,  it  has  from  2,500  to 
3,000  people.     The  census  gave  us  2,720,  I  think. 

Q.  If  you  have  any  opinion  on  the  question  of  statehood  and  the  con- 
ditions under  which  statehood  should  be  granted,  as  representing  your 
people  we  would  l)e  glad  to  have  you  state  them  as  concisely  as  pos- 
sible.— A.  I  am  not  here  as  a  delegate;  really,  I  was  out  here  on  pro- 
fessional business,  and  I  heard  of  this  meeting  and  drifted  into  it. 

Q.  What  is  your  profession? — A.  lam  a  lawyer  by  profession.  I 
would  say  that  the  concensus  of  o])inion  as  shown,  in  my  judgment,  is 
in  favor  of  single  statehood. 

MEANING    OF    "'SINGLE    STATEHOOD." 

Q.  What  do  you  mean  by  single  statehood? — A.  With  both;  wnth 
the  two  Territories;  that  the  two  Territories  should  be  one  State;  and 
I  believe  that  the  business  interests  of  the  country  and  the  intelligent 
opinion  that  prevails  generally  is  in  favor  of  single  statehood.  Of 
course,  I  would  sav  that  the  full-blood  element  of  the  Indians,  as  a 
rule,  are  against  it.  They  are  a  very  sluggish,  noncommittal  class  of 
people,  and  it  is  very  difficult  to  get  anything  out  of  them,  even  to  get 
them  to  enroll  as  citizens  of  the  nation;  and  other  interests,  which  are 
more  or  less  mercenary,  may  be  more  or  less  against  it,  as  they  see 

H  s  B 13 


1V)-1  NKW    STATEHOOD    KILL. 

their  intere.sts  iiiight  be  attectcd  by  it;  l)ut  I  believe  that  the  intellig'ent 
people  at  large,  and  the  thouohtful  people,  those  that  are  interested  in 
the  business  interests  of  the  Territory  and  are  looking  forward  to 
what  should  be  the  future  existence  of  the  people  and  the  future  con- 
dition of  the  people  are  for  single  statehood. 

Q.  How  o-enerally  do  they  desire  statehood,  or  their  own  Territorial 
form  of  government^ — A.  Well.  I  will  say  this:  That  I  think  that  the 
people  are  hardly  in  condition  for  statehood  yet. 

CONDITIONS   IN    INDIAN    TERRITORY. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  that  as  to  the  Indian  Territory,  or  as  to  both  of 
the  Territories^ — A.  Well,  I  speak  more  particularly  of  the  Indian 
Territory.  That  is  on  account  of  the  conditions  there,  and  if  those 
conditions  could  be  overcome,  as  a  matter  of  fact  of  getting-  a  settle- 
ment of  their  affairs  as  Indians  settled  up,  and  their  allotments  of 
lands  perfected  into  good  titles,  and  so  on,  I  think  there  is  the  chief 
condition  which  relates  to  statehood. 

Bv  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Will  3^ou  explain  to  the  committee  wherein  the  proceedings  as 
to  the  allotment  of  the  lands  to  the  Indians  would  interfere  with  state- 
hood, if  it  would  at  all;  in  what  respect  would  the  going  on  of  that 
allotment  interfere  with  statehood^ — A.  Well,  the  machinery  of  a 
State  is  difierent  to  some  extent  to  what  it  is  in  a  Territory,  although 
the  Territory  is  a  Territory  under  the  United  States;  that  is,  its  own 
government  woidd  be  in  very  good  condition  to  run  the  affairs  of  it,  I 
should  sa}",  perhaps  about  as  well  as  a  State;  but,  of  course,  until  the 
titles  are  perfected  we  would  not  be  in  good  condition  to  tax  the 
Indians  and  tax  these  lands;  and  I  do  not  know,  other  than  that,  of  an\' 
particular  reason. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 
Q.  AVhat  are  the  conditions  under  which  they  have  taken  these  allot- 
ments? Where  do  they  get  these  titles? — A.  Under  the  treaty  it  will 
be  live  j^ears  from  the  time  the  patents  are  issued — 1  mean  from  the 
time  the  certificate  of  patent  is  granted.  I  believe  that  the  language 
is  that  the  certificate  shall  be  granted,  and  in  five  years  they  shall  be 
given  absolute  patents,  designating  one-half  of  the  lands  as  a  home- 
stead, and  one-half  as  land  that  they  may  dispose  of  a^fter  five  years. 
The  allotment  is  equal  to  what — is  equal  to  11<.»  acres  to  each  Indian  of 
average  land. 

INDIAN   lands. 

Q.  And  do  these  Indians  now  own  the  land  all  in  severalty? — A. 
No,  sir;  not  yet.  Some  of  the  Indians  are  in  penitentiaries;  some  are 
incompetents;  a  great  many  are  of  these  classes,  and  as  to  these 
classes,  either  from  the  fact  that  it  is  impossil)le  to  get  in  their  allot- 
ments and  get  on  them  or  from  the  fact  that  they  have  not  the  intel- 
ligence to  do  so,  they  have  allowed  matters  to  remain  as  they  are.  A 
great  many  are  full  f)loods.  and  these  full  l)loods  stay  back  in  the  hills, 
a  great  many  of  theuL  Some  of  the  more  int(dligent  ones  among  them 
are  getting  ithe  full  ])loods  to  take  their  allotnuMits,  sometimes  on  this 
nicer  or  better  land;  and  a  great  many  of  the  full  bloods  are  staying 
back  in  the  hills  and  take  their  allotments.  i)art  of  them,  ])ack  there; 


NEW    rtTAT?:H<)OD    HILL.  195 

and  the  more  intellig'ent  tVllows  are  takiiiji"  their  aUotinents  in  the  bet- 
ter hinds,  with  a  view  to  t)uyino-  it  at  tlie  end  of  the  Hv(!  years. 

POPULATION    OF    INDIAN    TERRITORY. 

Q.  What  is  the  population  of  the  Indian  Territory  ^ — A.  It  is  about 
400,0(Hi,  1  think. 

J'KOPOHTION    OF   WHITES    AND    INDIANS. 

Q,  What  is  the  pro})ortion  of  whites  as  against  the  Indians,  half- 
hU)ods,  and  those  that  have  part  Indian  blood; — A.  A\'ell,  1  see  in  the 
papers  that  it  is  al)out  three  to  one. 

Q.  Do  they  secure  some  of  the  lands  in  the  Territory  ^— A.  Oh,  no. 
I  would  sa}',^  Avith  respect  to  that  answer  that  I  made  awhile  ago,  I 
am  not  certain  wdietber  the  reference  to  when  the  Indians — the  one 
with  reference  to  the  Indians  would  include  the  intermarried  or  adopted 
or  not.  but  I  do  not  think  it  does.  The  whites  who  are  not  intermar- 
ried or  adopted  have  no  legal  rights  to  the  land  in  the  Territory. 

Q.  There  are  a  great  many  of  those  in  there  that  have  no  rights,  are 
there  not^ — A.  Well,  they  have  rights  as  lessees.  Under  the  Curtis 
bill  the}'  can  lease  the  lands. 

Q.  Business  men  can  go  in  there  and  engage  in  business  in  towns 
and  cities? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  W' e  passed  through  a  good  many  towns  like  South  McAlester, 
Muscogee,  and  Vinita.  Where  do  the  people  who  built  those  line  busi- 
ness buildings  in  those  towns  there  get  the  title  to  the  lands?  Are 
they  leased? — A.  I  can  explain  that;  it  is  somewhat  confused,  I  would 
say. 

TOWN-SITE    COMMISSIONERS. 

The  Indians,  under  their  constitution — in  the  formation  and  adop- 
tion of  their  co!istitution — prohibited  the  council  of  the  Indian  Nation, 
the  Cherokee  Nation,  from  ever  selling  or  dispo.^ing  of  any  of  that  land 
for  any  purpose  whatever;  and  in  the  face  of  that  constitutional  pro- 
vision the  C'herokee  council  passed  a  law  creating  what  was  known  as 
a  town-site  commissioner,  and  providing  that  the  town-site  commis- 
sioner might  allot  certain  lands  under  a  law  that  was  then  passed.  I 
am  not  certain  whether  that  law  designated  certain  lands  for  towns  or 
not,  but  I  think  that  related  to  the  railroad  land;  but  the  town-site 
conunissioner  might  lay  the  lands  out  into  town  lots,  and  they  were  to 
sell  it  to  the  highest  bidder,  and  the  Indians  l>ought  them.  No  one 
else  had  a  right  to  buy  then),  and  they  remained  in  that  condition  for 
a  good  nrany  years.  Some  of  the  towns  were  laid  out  twent}'  years 
ago,  and  l)efore  the  recent  laws,  providing  how  the  whites  might  come 
in  thei'eand  might  legitimately  hold  titles,  the  white  men  would  come 
in  there  and  do  business  in  an  Indian's  name.  They  would  also  bu}^ 
lands  in  an  Indian's  name,  and  they  would  hold  them  that  way.  But 
that  was  very  unsatisfactory  and  impractical  and  caused  a  great  deal 
of  perjury  and  chicanery.  And  the  Curtis  bill  was  passed,  and  that 
was  the  lirst  positive  law  by  which  a  white  man  might  hold  lauds  in 
these  towns. 


196  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  Thon  after  the  passage  of  the  Curtis  bill  were  these  titles  which 
mioht  be  called  surreptitious  converted  into  legal  titles  under  that 
law^ — A.  A  great  man}'  of  them. 

HOW    TITLES   ARE    HELD. 

Q.  How  are  the  titles  to  the  lots  in  an}-  of  these  to^yns  through 
which  we  passed  yesterday,  for  instance,  where  these  big  buildings 
are,  how  are  those  titles  held?  Are  they  held  under  the  Curtis  bill  %— 
A.  Yes.  sir;  or  under  the  more  recent  law.  We  lawyers  think  that  no 
white  man  may  procure  title  under  the  Curtis  Inll.  When  the  white  ujen 
got  in  there  and  made  these  towns,  and  pushed  the  country  along,  it 
looked  like  a  one-sided  aftairthat  they  might  not  own  it,  own  any  inter- 
ests there,  and  be  protected  in  them.  And  that  Curtis  bill  provided 
that  the  town  lots  might  be  sold,  and  sold  to  the  highest  bidder,  all 
that  were  vacant,  and  those  that  were  not  vacant  might  be  sold  at  one- 
half  their  appraised  value.  It  says  that  the  owner  may  do  so  and  so; 
and  it  further  provided  that  anyone  having  made  improvements  upon  it, 
that  anyone  in  possession,  having  improvements  on  it — and  that  was 
construed  to  mean  u  white  man  as  well  as  an  Indian— and  in  that  way 
the  white  man  would  get  the  Indian  to  indorse  over  to  him  by  a  bill  of 
sale;  that  was  the  way  he  held  his  title. 

Q.  And  that  is  the  way  those  titles  were  held?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.   Are  the  railroad  grants  in  the  same  way?— A.  No,  sir. 

Q.  It  seemed  from  a  cursory  examination  by  the  couimittee  that 
there  was  a  very  heavy  tide  of  white  immigration  coming  in  there.  Is 
that  true  ?— A.  'it  is  not  true  now  more  than  it  has  been  for  years. 

Q.  That  is  the  way  you  explain  these  big  towns?— A.   Yes,  sir. 

TIDE    OF   IMMIGRATION. 

Q.  Is  that  tide  of  immigration  keeping  up?— A.  Yes,  sir;  but  not 
to  an  alarming  extent  at  all.  Throughout  the  country  there  are  whites 
that  have  been  making  those  farms  for  years  and  years,  and  it  is  very 
difhcult  for  a  man  to  rent  a  farm  in  the  Cherokee  Nation  now. 

Q.   Is  the  title  to  those  claims  procured  in  the  same  way  ?— A.  Under 
the  recent  law  there  is  a  law  providing  for  a  man  to  g^i^  title  to  the 
claims;  they  go  on  these  same  lands  and  under  the  permission  of  the 
Secretary  of  the  Interior  he  may  lease  these  lands. 
By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  Your  Territory  is  pretty  well  occupied  with  railroads,  is  it  not  ?— 
A.  Yes,  sir;  but  there  ought  to  be  some  more  come  in. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Are  there  others  contemplated?— A.  Yes,  sir;  1  hear  of  some. 

Q.  Are  there  any  surveyed?— A.  Yes,  sir;  there  was  one  surveyed 
in  by  Grove  and  Fairland  the  other  day. 

Q".  W^as  the  surveying  actually  done?— A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.   But  the  road  is  not  under  construction  ? — A.   No.  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Henry  Marshall  Ferman  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  com- 
mittee, and,  lirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows:  - 

By  Senator  Burnham: 
Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee.— A.  My  name  is 
Henry  Marshall  Ferman. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  197 

Q.  Where  do  3'^ou  reside? — A.  At  Ardniore,  Ind.  T. 

Q.  Are  you  one  of  the  delegation  from  there? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  am 
one  of  the  delegation  from  Ardmore.  1  have  been  in  the  Territory 
for  seven  years,  and  I  have  l)een  grand  master  of  the  Masons,  and  I  am 
a  lawyer  by  profession,  and  my  acquaintance  carries  me  all  over  the 
Territory,  and  I  think  I  am  as  familiar  there  as  any  other  citizen  in  the 
Territor}'. 

INDIAN    TERRITORY    PRODUCTS. 

Q.  You  may  make  your  statement. — A.  I  want  to  say  this:  That  we 
will  be  very  glad  indeed  if  you  can  visit  our  section  of  the  Territory, 
which  is  the  Egypt  of  the  Territory.  Over  two  millions  of  dollars 
has  been  paid  out  for  cotton  alone  on  the  streets  of  Ardmore.  We 
ship  an  immense  amount  of  products,  carloads  of  cattle  and  carloads  of 
hogs. 

ARDMORE    CENSUS   OF    1  !♦()()    AND    1902. 

In  1900  the  census  gave  us  over  5,000.  This  summer,  in  order  to 
issue  bonds  for  schools  and  waterworks,  another  census  was  required 
by  the  Congress.  Our  population  was  8,687.  We  have  increased  over 
3,i>00  in  two  years.  We  have  the  most  thickly  settled  portion  of  the 
Indian  Territory.  The  last  census  gave  us  1-17,00(>.  Since  then  our 
population  has  increased  about  33  per  cent. 

Q.  How  far  is  that  from  here? — A,  Ardmore  is  100  miles  south  of 
here.  Our  district  judge,  who  served  in  Congress  from  Colorado, 
would  like  to  come  up  and  make  a  statement  before  you.  Now,  then, 
our  people  feel  this  way  about  it:  We  are  without  representation  and 
without  voice,  except  in  the  local  self-government  in  the  towns;  we 
feel  that  in  every  quality  of  citizenship  Ave  are  the  equal  of  any  portion 
of  the  United  States.  We  most  earnestly  desire  to  have  representa- 
tion in  Congress. 

SINGLE    STATEHOOD   AS   A    MATTER   OF   BUSINESS. 

As  a  matter  of  business,  we  want  single  statehood.  We  do  not  want 
it  by  piecemeal.  We  feel  that  it  would  l)e  a  rank  injustice  to  us  to  have 
our  people  absorbed  in  the  future.  The  population  is  about  equal  in 
the  two  Territories.  We  have  more  good  land  than  they  have  in  Okla- 
homa; we  have  coal  and  timber  and  asphalt,  and  we  feel  that  Oklahoma 
would  be  the  beneticiary  of  the  union.  We  feel  that  it  would  be  the 
cause  of  trouble  in  the  future  to  bring  us  in  by  piecemeal.  On  the 
question  of  schools,  the  mayor  requested  me  to  make  this  statement, 
that  it  is  impossible  to  give  us  lands  for  the  school  fund  as  the  other 
Territories  have  been  given. 

IMMENSE   COAL   FIELDS. 

There  are  immense  coal  fields  down  there  which  ought  to  be  sold. 
If  it  would  be  possible  for  Congress  to  purchase  those  coal  fields  and 
give  them  to  us,  we  think  that  that  is  the  only  course  that  is  open  to 
us  to  raise  a  school  fund.  Our  condition  down  there  is  pitiable  beyond 
language  to  describe.  In  the  towns  we  have  schools;  but  the  chil- 
dren that  pick  the  cotton,  and  raise  the  cotton  and  the  corn,  they  are 
without   education.      There    is  no  asAdum  down   there;   there  is  no 


198  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

jilat'c  for  the  orphiuis  to  be  eared  for.  We  have  no  insane  asylum 
down  there;  we  have  the  insane  chained  to  stumps  and  in  loo-  (•a]>ins, 
so  that  our  ofticers  have  to  wink  at  criminal  charg-es  bi-ought  against 
them,  so  that  they  can  be  sent  to  asykuns  where  they  can  be  cared  for. 

By  Senator  Burnham: 
Q.   How  general  is  the  opinion  which   you    have    expressed? — A. 
Ninety  per  cent.     In  fact,  the  intelligent  element  of  the  Chickasaw 
Nation  is  united  on  that  question. 

THE    CHICKASAW    NATION. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  What  proportion  of  the  people  in  the  Indian  Territory  are  white  ? — 
A.  1  can  only  speak  for  the  Chickasaw  Nation:  about  85  per  cent. 

Q.  That  proportion  white  in  the  Chickasaw  Nation? — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  What  did  you  say  the  bonds  in  Ardmore  were  issued  for? — A. 
Schools  and  waterworks. 

Q.  So  that  you  have  pretty  good  municipal  conditions  ? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  The  same  is  true,  I  take  it,  of  South  McAlester,  Vinita,  and 
the  other  good  towns? — A.  Y"es,  sir;  l>ut  we  are  operating  under  the 
Arkansas  law  of  1884,  and  there  is  no  provision  in  that  law  to  force 
people  to  put  down  sidewalks.  Subsequent  to  1884  Arkansas  put  in 
force  a  law  that  would  force  men  to  put  down  sidtnvalks,  l)ut  that  law 
was  not  put  in  force  in  the  Indian  Territory.  So  that  we  have  meii 
who  put  dow^n  sidewalks  now,  and  the  next  property  to  theirs  there  is 
a  hog  wallow  in  front  of  it. 

By  Senator  Burnham: 
Q.  Y^ou  speak  of  85  per  cent  white.     Does  that  include  all  of  the 
Indian  blood? — A.  There  is  not  more  than  500  full-))lood  Indians  in 
the  Chickasaw  Nation,  and  the  mixed  blood  count  with  the  white 
people. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  Of  that  85  per  cent  what  proportion  can  read  and  write? — A. 
Well,  those  who  are  above  scholastic  age,  I  would  say  75  per  cent  of 
them.     The  country  people  do  the  very  l)est  they  can.     They  have 
little  subscription  schools  for  three  or  four  months  in  the  yenv. 

increase  in  immigration. 

Q.  What  about  the  increase  of  immig-ration  there? — A.  As  I  said, 
since  the  last  census  we  have  increased  about  80  per  cent. 

Q.  Where  does  that  come  from? — A.  All  over  the  Union;  we  tind 
them  there  from  everywhere. 

Q.  What  do  these  "people  do  that  come  in? — A.  Principally,  they 
are  farmers.  Now,  since  the  Frisco  road  has  run  through,  for  instance 
Ada,  Mill  Creek,  and  Medea,  those  places  have  8,000  or  4,000  people 
in  them.  We  have  some  coal  mines  down  there,  but  they  are  not 
worked  much. 

Q.  There  is  a  proposition  pending  to  give  you  a  separate  Territorial 
form  of  government;  what  do  j^ou  say  about  that,  or  the  proposition 
to  give  j'^^ou  single  statehood?— A.  If  we  can  not  get  single  statehood 
we  want  that. 


NEW  stat?:h()<>u  bill.  199 

Q.  Suppose  you  wove  to  extend  the  territorial  limits  ot  Oklahoma 
around  the  Indian  Territory^ — A.  We  do  not  feel  that  if  the  T(M-rito- 
rial  o-overnment  is  continued  that  the  representative  from  Oklahoma 
can  properly  represent  us.  We  would  like  to  have  a  representative 
that  we  could  instruct,  because  we  do  not  think  Oklahoma  understands 
our  conditions. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

A.  L.  Gates  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  comaiittee  and.  first 
having  ))een  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

Bv  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  to  the  committee  your  name,  ag-e,  and  where  you 
live. — A.  Mv  name  is  A.  L.  Gates;  age.  4-1;  I  live  at  Glaremore, 
Ind.  T. 

Q.   How  long  have  3'ou  been  down  there  ^ — A.  Nine  years  last  June. 

Q.   Where  did  you  come  from  ^ — A.  From  New  Jersey. 

Q.   What  is  your  business  down  there  ^ — A.  Newspaper  publisher. 

Q.   What  is  the  name  of  3'our  paper  f — A.  The  Progress. 

Q.   What  is  its  circulation^ — A.   Eight  hundred. 

Q.  If  you  have  any  statement  which  you  desire  to  make  we  will  be 
pleased  to  hear  you. — A.  I  would  like  to  state  for  the  people  down 
there  that  they  are  very  anxious  for  some  form  of  government,  espe- 
cially for  some  provision  for  schools.  In  canvassing  for  a  statehood 
call  I  canvassed  sixty-five  l)usiness  men,  and  1  asked  them  if  the}'  were 
in  favor  of  statehood  with  Oklahoma.  Fifty -seven  signed  the  call; 
there  were  three  that  would  not  sign,  one  was  indifferent,  five  were 
opposed. 

IN    FA^  OK    OF   SINGLE    STATEHOOD. 

Gourt  convened  there  last  week  and  I  interviewed  the  leading  men, 
among  them  three  bankers,  a  large  merchant,  and  some  of  the  leading 
men  on  the  works,  and  they  were  all  in  favor  of  single  statehood  with 
Oklahoma,  and  wanted  it  done.  The  objection  over  there  that  is  raised 
is  on  account  of  the  indebtedness  of  Oklahoma.  Among  the  intelli- 
gent class  the  sentiment  is  undoubtedlv  overwhelmingly  for  single 
statehood. 

Q.  What  is  the  feeling  of  your  people  as  to  single  statehood  for  the 
Indian  Territory  and  Oklahoma,  and  a  territorial  form  of  government 
for  yourself  alone  ^ — A.  Our  people,  a  large  majority  of  them,  are 
opposed  to  a  territorial  form  of  government.  We  are  opposed  to 
that. 

Q.  What  proportion  of  the  people  down  there  are  white,  or  the 
American  element? — A.  Well,  there  is  35,000  citizens  there,  and  I 
should  judge  about  50,000  noncitizens  in  the  nation.  That  is  in  the 
Cherokee  Nation.  I  think  the  roll  of  the  Dawes  Commission  will 
show  about  37,000  citizens.  That  will  include  the  Cherokee  himself, 
his  adopted  wife,  the  Delaware  and  the  freedman. 

Q.  What  is  the  proportion  of  people  like  yourself  that  went  down 
there  from  other  places!' — A.  1  should  judge  in  the  Cherokee  Nation 
it  is  about  two  to  one. 

BUSINESS    ELEMENT   IMMIGRANTS    FROM    THE    STATES. 

Q.  Two  to  one  of  your  class  "i — A.  Yes,  sir.  The  business  element, 
as  a  rule,  are  immigrants  from  the  States  to  a  large  degree. 


200  NEW    STATEHOOD    15ILL. 

Q.  You  iiieaii  they  are  peoplo  who  have  come  in  tliere  from  other 
partti  of  the  Union  ?— A.  Yes,  sir.  A  great  many  of  those  are  adopted, 
too.  but  they  have  come  in  there  from  othcn-  parts  of  the  Union. 

TAXABLE    WEAETIl. 

Q.  Do  vou  think  of  any  other  statement  to  make ^— A.  We  feel 
that  in  the  matter  of  resources  and  ad\anc(Miient  we  are  prepared  to 
be  a  State;  and  on  that  question  1  will  say  that  we  shipped  Qi.H)  ciir- 
loads  of  corn  from  our  town  last  year;  we  became  a  Presidential 
post-office  six  or  seven  years  ag-o,  and  we  have  a  town  of  2,(>00  inhabit- 
tants;  that  our  taxable  wealth  is  about  ;^;300,000  within  the  coi-porate 
limits  of  the  town.  We  have  a  hotel  there;  we  have  every  acconuno- 
dation  that  a  country  town  can  have.  We  have  a  hotel  there  that  is 
three  stories  high,  and  is  05  by  IBO;  we  have  an  opera  house  there  that 
seats  1.000  people. 

Q.  Have  you  electric  lights  ^-A.  No,  sir:  we  have  not  electric 
lights;  we  have  an  application  now  in  for  electric  lights. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

W.  A.  Ledbetter  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  committee  and, 
first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 
By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  conmiittee. — A.  W.  A.  I^ed- 
better  is  my  name. 

Q.  And  how  old  are  vou^— A.  1  am  oi<  years  of  age. 

Q.  Where  do  you  live  ^— A.  I  live  at  Ardmore.  T  was  appointed  as 
a  delegate  on  the  committee  to  this  committee  on  the  part  of  a  con- 
vention held  at  Ardmore  not  long  since. 

Q.  What  was  that  convention"?— A.  It  was  a  convention  composed 
of  delegates  from  the  difierent  parts  of  the  Chickasaw  Nation  looking 
to  securing  relief  by  legislation  for  the  people  there. 

Q.  Any  statement  which  you  desire  to  make  which  is  not  cumula- 
tive, and* which  properly  comes  before  this  Committee  on  Territories, 
we  will  be  glad  to  hear.— A.  I  live  in  the  Chickasaw  Nation  some 
twelve  vears  now\  1  am  a  lawyer  and  I  have  had  opportunities  to  get 
fairly  well  acquainted  with  the*  conditions  down  there.  Our  res^ources 
are  very  great;  our  population  is  typical  of  the  Southern  and  \yestern 
States— our  Southern  and  Western  population  intermixed.  We  have, 
in  point  of  agricultural  advantages,  one  thing  that  is  superior  to  almost 
anv  other  section  of  the  country,  in  this:  That  we  can  raise  the  very 
best  of  wheat  on  the  same  farm' with  the  very  best  kind  of  cotton,  and 
that  distinguishes  us  from  almost  any  other  part  of  the  United  States. 

STATEHOOD    WITH    OKLAHOMA. 

Q.  Did  this  convention  from  which  you  are  a  delegate  have  any 
ideas  or  take  anv  action  with  reference  to  the  question  of  statehood 
with  Oklahoma  (—A.  We  had  a  very  elaborate  discussion  of  it.  Every 
speaker  announced  himself,  and  represented  the  people  that  he  came 
from,  as  decidedly  in  favor  of  union  with  Oklahoma  in  the  event  that 
it  could  be  secured.  The  dominant  idea,  however,  was  that  if  we  be- 
come a  part  of  the  State  of  Oklahoma  that  we  wanted  to  come  in  on 
terms  of  absolute  equality.     The  convention  was  a  unit  on  that  propo- 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  201 

sition.  As  an  alternative  proposition,  however,  they  favor  something 
along  the  line  of  what  is  known  as  the  Moon  bill,  which  provides  for 
a  separate  Territorial  form  of  government;  but  they  were  opposed  to 
that  proposition  if  its  tendenc}'  was  to  make  a  separate  State  out  of 
the  Indian  Territory.  That  is  the  opinion  of  75 — if  not  of  90 — per 
cent  of  the  business  men  of  the  Chickasaw  Nation.  Jt  is  a  matter  of 
verv  gi;eat  regret  to  us  that  this  conunittee  could  not  have  seen  the 
Chickasaw^  Nation.  'It  is  very  highly  develo})ed,  and  in  the  country 
the  development  is  much  greater  than  it  is  elsewhere  in  the  Indian 
Territory. 

Q.  What  is  the  proportion  of  the  w hite  population  ? — A.  I  believe 
that  the  white  population  in  the  Chickasaw  Nation  would  be  in  the 
neighborhood  of  15.5,000  or  160,000  people. 

Q.  What  is  the  total  population^ — A.  We  have  about,  jointly, 
Indians,  all  parts  of  the  tril)e — in  other  words,  tliere  are  quite  a  num- 
ber of  people  in  that  tribe  who  have  practically  no  Indian  blood  in 
them — 1  do  not  suppose  there  is  1,000. 

155,000    WHITES   IN    CHICKASAW^    NATION. 

Q.  How  many  whites  like  yourself  ?— A.  150,000  or  155,000. 
Q.  That  is  150,000  accounted  for.     Now,  outside  of  that,  how  many 
more  people  are  there  in  the  nation? — A.  There  are  perhaps  20,000. 

By  Senator  Buknham: 

Q.  What  part  of  the  area  of  the  Indian  Territory  does  the  Chickasaw 
Nation  include? — A.  Well,  I  suppose  about  one-fourth  of  the  entire 
Territory. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

C.  B.  Ames  appeared  voluntarily  before  the  committee,  and  first 
having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  You  ma}'  state  to  the  committee  your  name  and  age,  and  3-our 
place  of  residence. — A.  My  name  is  C.  B.  Ames;  age,  32;  residence, 
Oklahoma  City. 

FOR   ONE    state. 

Q.  You  may  now  proceed  with  such  statement  as  you  desire  to 
make  to  the  committee. — A.  1  wish  to  say  that  the  sentiment  of  Okla- 
homa City  is  in  favor  of  single  statehood  and  that  the  sentiment  of 
Oklahoma  City  is  in  favor  of  the  admission  of  both  of  these  Ter- 
ritories as  one  State  together.  The  people  of  this  town  are  opposed 
unalterably  to  the  attachment  process.  They  believe  it  is  one  which 
will  make  permanent  sectional  lines  in  the  State  for  generations  to 
come. 

Q.  What  do  you  say  as  to  the  proposition  of  separate  statehood  for 
Oklahoma  and  making  the  Indian  Territory  a  Territory,  looking  to 
ultimate  statehood  for  them  ? — A.  I  think  it  would  jeopardize  both  of 
the  States;  that  if  that  was  done  we  would  have  the  locating  of  our 
public  institutions  to  do  over  again  when  they  came  in,  because  the 
voting  strength  of  the  two  Territories  will  be  in  the  Indian  Territory. 
We  have  been  opened  to  settlement,  our  crops  are  all  planted,  and 


202  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

our  titles  are  oontirmetl.  Tlu^re  they  have  no  title,  until  recently  in 
the  Creek  Nation,  they  are  there  now  all  allotted;  and  in  the  Seminole 
Nation  tiiey  are  all  allotted. 

Q.   What  is  3'our  business;! — A.  I  am  a  lawyer. 

THE    WHOLESALE    P.USINESS. 

Q.  What  is  the  proportion  of  the  business  of  this  city  over  in  the 
Indian  Territory  ? — A.  Our  wholesale  business  amounts  to  $15,000,000 
a  3'ear,  about.  The  wholesale  business  of  this  city  in  the  Indian  Ter- 
ritory is  prol)ably  20  per  cent  of  the  whole  volume  of  business  in  the 
Indian  Territory.  The  freio'htand  passenger  receipts  of  the  railroads 
in  this  city  amount  to  $3,000,000  a  year,  possibly  a  little  more. 

Q.  Do  you  say  that  20  per  cent  of  your  business  here  is  trade  in  the 
Indian  Territory  ^ — A.  About  that.     That  is  simply  an  estimate. 

Q.  Have  you  any  further  statement  to  make? — A.  I  would  like  to 
sav  one  other  thing,  and  that  is,  that  from  our  point  of  view  we  think 
the  Indian  Territory  is  now  ready  for  statehood.  You  have  g-ot  a 
legal  right  to  attach  them.  That  was  decided  in  the  case  of  Thomas 
v.  Gay,  169  United  States,  page  264.  They  certainly  have  a  popula- 
tion to  do  so,  and  to  bear  their  share  in  sustaining  the  government: 
and  the}'  certainly  have  the  resources  to  sustain  that  population. 

Q.  What  about  the  illiteracy? — A.  The  last  census  shows  that  76 
per  cent  of  their  population  are  literates. 

PERCENTAGE    OE   LITERACY   AND   ILLITERACY. 

Q.  So  there  is  24  per  cent  of  illiteracy  ? — A.  Yes,  sir.  In  Oklahoma 
the  percentage  of  literacy  is  97.  Now,  about  the  question  of  the  tax- 
able property  in  the  Indian  Territory,  the  report  of  the  committee  on 
the  main  bill  shows  that  they  have  about  $60,000,000  of  taxable  prop- 
erty in  the  Territory.  The  lands  have  been  allotted  largely,  and  in 
three  years  they  will  l)e  allotted;  that  is,  throughout  the  reserve — full 
possession — only  the  homesteads  of  the  Indians,  which  is  about  25  per 
cent  of  the  lands  in  the  Territory.  That  is  to  say,  that  there  will  be 
75  per  cent  of  the  lands  subject  to  taxation.  Now,  75  per  cent  of  the 
land  in  Oklahoma — not  more  than  that — will  be  subject  to  taxation, 
because  of  the  fact  that  many  of  the  lands  are  not  patented  yet;  and 
then  we  have  up  here  the  Osage  Indian  Reservation. 

Q.  What  is  your  present  appraised  value  of  taxable  property  in 
Oklahoma!' — A,  The  present  appraised  value  for  taxation  of  the  prop- 
erty in  Oklahoma  is  $72,000,000. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

W.  H.  Trudoeon  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  committee  and, 
first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  You  mav  state  vour  name  to  the  committee. — A.  Mv  name  is 
W.  H.  Trudgeon. 

Q.  And  vour  age  and  place  of  residence. — A.  Fortv-three;  Purcell, 
Ind.  T.       ■ 

Q.  And  what  is  your  business? — A.  My  busines.s  is  the  grain  ))usi- 
ness  and  the  lumber  business  down  there. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  203 

SENTIMENT   OF   THE    rEOPLE. 

Q.  If  you  can  do  so,  wo  would  ho  o-lud  to  havo  you  state  tho  thought 
and  t'oelin*>-  of  the  people  of  your  section  of  the  Territory  with  refer- 
ence to  the  (luestion  of  statehood. — A.  Well,  Senator,  I  think  they  are 
pretty  much  agreed  as  to  the  proposition  of  one  State  for  the  two  Ter- 
ritories. I  speak  more  particularly  of  the  business  interests;  and  I 
think  on  that  question  that  90  per  cent  of  my  pai't  of  the  Territory  are 
in  faN'or  of  one  State  made  up  of  the  two  Territories.  They  are,  prac- 
tically speaking,  together  now,  and  I  do  not  see  how  you  can  separate 
them  very  well. 

Q.   Where  do  you  live;  what  districts — A.   In  the  Chickasaw  Nation. 

Q.  What  proportion  of  the  population  there  is  made  up  of  people 
who  came  in  from  the  outside,  like  vourself?— A.  There  is  about 
120,000. 

Q.  And  what  is  the  entire  population  ^— A.  About  125,000—135,000. 
Of  course  the  population  has  increased  rapidly  in  the  last  year. 

CONSOLIDATED   INTERESTS. 

Q.  Is  there  an3^thing  further  than  that  that  you  would  like  to 
stated — A.  Nothing  more  than  that  the  business  interests,  the  social 
interests,  and  the  moral  interests  of  the  (wo  Territories  are  very  closely 
combined.  The  Episcopal  churches  of  the  two  Territories  are  together 
under  one  bishop;  the  Catholic  churches  of  the  two  Territories  are 
together  under  one  bishop;  the  Epworth  League  of  the  two  Territories 
are  together. 

Q.  How  a))Out  the  Methodist  Church!'— A.  They  are  not  together 
in  the  two  T'erritories.  The  grain  dealers  are  together  in  one  solid, 
compact  organization, 

Q.  How  about  the  cattle  interests  of  the  two  Territories;  are  they 
together? — A.  No,  sir;  they  are  apart.  The  rest  are  together,  and 
they  come  together  as  one. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  You  are  the  author  of  the  liill  for  a  Territorial  government  and 
giving  a  Delegate  in  Congress  from  the  Indian  Territory- '( — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Your  bill  was  for  a  Delegate?— A.  Yes,  sir;  and  I  prepared 
a  brief  on  that  l)ill  of  the  conditions  under  which  we  live,  and  that 
brief  was  handed  to  you. 

Q.  That  was  after  your  bill  was  presented? — A.  No,  sir;  that  was 
handed  to  you  Ijefore  the  ])ill  was  handed  to  you. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

A.  B.  White  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  committee  and,  first 
having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  If  you  have  an^^thing  that  is  particularly  pertinent  to  any  of  the 
subjects  in  hand  of  which  you  know,  the  committee  will  be  glad  to 
hear  .you,  otherwise  we  must  ask  you  not  to  take  the  committee's 
time  as  we  are  in  a  hurry  to  leave. — A.  I  was  unaware  of  the  pres- 
ence of  the  committee  in  the  city  to-day  until  Colonel  Ferman  asked 
me  to  be  present. 


204  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  Where  do  you  resided— A.  At  Sulphur,  a))out  tlie  center  of  the 
Chickasaw  Nation. 

Q.  How  Ion o-  have  you  lived  there ^ — A.  About  two  years.  I  am 
the  mayor  of  the  town. 

UNANIMOUS   FOR    SINGLE    STATEHOOD. 

Q.  AMiat  have  you  to  sa}*  in  reoard  to  the  ([ue.stion  now  before  the 
committee  with  reference  to  statehood^ — A.  The  people  of  that  com- 
munit}^  are  very  anxious  for  statehood,  and  the  sentiment  of  the  com- 
munity is  practically  unanimous  for  single  statehood,  provided  they 
can  get  it  on  an  equality  with  Oklahoma. 

Q.  And  for  what  reason  do  they  want  that? — A.  Well,  they  think 
they  are  qualified  for  statehood,  both  in  population  and  in  taxable 
wealth,  but  our  government  machinery  is  very  inadequate.  We  are 
governed  only  by  the  United  States  courts,  and  they  are  situated  at 
long  distances  apart. 

Q.  Would  not  a  separate  Territorial  form  of  government  answer 
your  purposes? — A.  No,  sir;  the  sentiment  is  practically  unanimous 
against  that.     W^e  think  it  will  put  us  off  for  a  long  time. 

Q.  Do  3^ou  think  you  are  as  well  prepared  for  statehood  as  Okla- 
homa?— A.  No,  sir;  because  the  lands  are  not  divided  and  are  not 
taxa))le. 

Q.  What  would  l)e  the  advantages  of  a  union  of  the  Territories? — 
A.  Well,  we  have  no  way  to  record  deeds,  for  instance.  People  are 
now  ac(|uiring  titles  to  their  lots  in  the  towns,  and  there  is  only  one 
office  in  the  Chickasaw  Nation  where  they  can  be  recorded.  That  is 
at  Ardmore.     Then,  the  Chickasaw  Nation  is  100  miles  square. 

SCHOOLS   AND   ROADS. 

We  have  no  schools,  except  each  to^vn  supports  its  schools  by  direct 
taxation.  We  have  no  public  roads.  We  have  roads,  but  the  people 
fence  up  the  roads  in  every  direction  at  will,  and  there  is  no  powder  by 
which  they  can  be  opened  or  worked.  There  has  never  been  an^^  work 
done  on  the  public  roads,  and  none  of  these  benefits  that  people  derive 
from  well-organized  governments,  from  law^s  w^ell  administered — we 
have  not  these  things.  We  deplore  being  put  into  the  State  of 
Oklahoma  by  piecemeal. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q,  What  do  you  say  as  to  statehood  for  Oklahoma  now,  and  Terri- 
torial government  for  yourselves  now,  and  finally  to  statehood  for 
yourselves? — A.  1  would  be  satisfied  with  that  individually,  and  1 
think  the  people  would.  Speaking  for  myself  and  speaking  for  the 
conmiunity,  we  would  prefer  single  statehood  inmiediately.  We  think 
it  would  engender  a  little  sectional  feeling  between  Oklahoma  and 
ourselves  if  we  were  brought  in  afterwards,  and  that  we  were  brought 
in  under  unfair  conditions;  that  Oklahoma  would  be  given  a  large 
advantage  by  being  allowed  to  locate  the  public  institutions  of  the 
State. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

O.  D.  Halsell  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  committee,  and, 
first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  205 

B}'  the  Chaiuman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name,  your  age,  and  what  your  husincs.s  is. — 
A.  O.  D.  Halsell:  47  years  old;  wholesale  gi-ocer. 

Q.  Located  in  Oklahoma  City  ^ — A.  Yes.  sir:  and  Guthrie,  and  Pauls 
Valley,  Ind.  T. 

Q.  Is  a  good  deal  of  youi'  business  in  the  Indian  Territor}'? — A. 
About  one-fourth  or  one-third. 

Q.  What  statements  do  you  desire  to  make  herei' — A.  We  do  not 
want  double  statehood,  from  a  business  standpoint. 

Q.  If  3'ou  have  a  State  at  all  3'ou  want  a  single  State? — A.  Y'es,  sir; 
we  want  a  single  State. 

Q.  What  have  you  to  say  upon  the  main  proposition  of  a  State  at 
all  at  the  present  time? — A.  Well,  if  we  are  to  have  statehood  at  all 
at  the  present  time  we  want  single  statehood. 

Q.  Would  you  rather  have  no  statehood  at  all  than  to  have  double 
statehood? — A.  It  raises  our  taxes,  our  freight  rates,  and  brings  a 
hardship  on  the  business  interests. 

SENTIMENT   OF   THE    BUSINESS   PEOPLE. 

Q.  What  do  you  say  is  the  sentiment  of  the  business  people  con- 
cerning statehood  at  all  at  the  present  time  ? — A.  Eighty  per  cent  are 
in  favoi-  of  single  statehood.  Seventy  per  cent  would  be  in  favor  of 
leaving  it  as  it  is  unless  they  could  have  single  statehood. 

Q.  AYill  you  give  the  committee,  very  bi'iefly,  the  reasons  for  that? — 
A.  The  reason  is  that  business  men  ai-e  looking  out  for  the  cost  of  run- 
ning the  business,  taxes,  insurance,  and  everything  of  that  kind.  We 
figure  that  we  can  get  cheaper  monej"  in  here  by  being  one  large  State. 
And  another  reason  is  our  freight  rates,  as  soon  as  we  cross  the  State 
line  or  the  Territorial  line,  are  advanced,  and  it  increases  the  cost  of 
doing  business. 

Q.  Now,  then,  state  your  reasons  for  preferring  that  the  thing  remain 
as  it  is  at  present.  1  understood  you  to  say  you  preferred  single 
statehood  if  there  is  statehood  at  all,  but  you  prefer  a  Territorial  form 
of  government? — A.  We  want  single  statehood  if  we  have  statehood 
at  all,  but  if  it  is  going  to  be  two  States  we  Avant  it  to  remain  as  it  is. 

Q.  W^hich  do  you  want? — A.  I  want  single  statehood.  As  between 
single  statehood  and  i-emaining  under  Territorial  form,  we  prefer 
single  statehood.  Here  is  a  picture  of  the  university  that  the  Epworth 
League  of  Oklahoma  and  the  Indian  Territory  is  building. 

Q.  Will  you  leave  that  as  a  part  of  your  evidence? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I 
will  be  glad  to. 

A  wholesalers''  association  of  the  two  territories. 

Q.  Have  you  got  a  wholesalers'  association  of  the  two  Territories 
together? — A.  Y"es,  sir;  we  are  just  tied  up. 

Q.  What  is  the  number  of  business  associations  that  are  a  union  of 
the  two? — A.   Do  you  mean  the  amount  of  them? 

Q.  Y^oii  have  named  one. — A.  Y^es,  sir. 

Q.  Now^  what  others? — A.  Well,  dry  goods. 

Q.  Is  that  in  Iwth? — A.  No,  sir;  they  have  separate  associations. 
The  grocers  have  their  associations. 


206  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Q.  Is  there  a  dry  o-oods  asj^ociation  in  the  two  Territories,  or  does 
the  Indian  Territory  have  its  association  separate;! — A.  They  Avorlc 
together.  Everything  is  just  based  I'ight  on  that  as  though  it  was  just 
one  Territory. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

The  picture  identilied  l)y  the  wdtness  and  left  as  a  part  of  his  testi- 
mony is  ''Exhibit  K." 

S.  T.  Alton  voluntarily  ap})eared  l)efore  the  eonimittee  and,  first 
having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  State  to  the  committee  your  name,  age,  and  what  3'our  business 
s. — A.  My  name  is  S.  T.  Alton;  I  am  in  the  wholesale  grocer}^ 
business. 

Q.  Where  are  you  in  business^ — A.  In  Oklahoma  Cit\';  I  have  been 
engaged  in  that  1)usiness  here  for  the  last  three  years. 

Q.  What  proportion  of  your  lousiness  is  in  Oklahoma  and  what  pro- 
l)ortion  in  the  Indian  Territorv  ^ — A.  About  75  and  25 — about  25  per 
cent  in  the  Indian  Territor3\ 

Q.  What  statements  do  you  desire  to  make  to  this  committee  con- 
cerning the  question  ))efore  it  i — A.  From  the  point  of  view  of  a  whole- 
sale business  man^ 

SINGLE   STATEHOOl)    BETTER    FOR   BUSINESS. 

Q.  On  statehood,  single  or  doubled — A.  Yes,  sir,  or  not  at  all.  So 
far  as  our  ))usiness  is  concerned,  avc  woidd  rather  not  have  statehood 
for  awhile  until  the  Indian  Territory  is  ready  to  get  in  with  us.  We 
all  believe  it  would  be  better  for  the  business  interests  in  this  town  for 
one  State  composed  of  the  two  Territories,  and  our  reason  for  that 
would  be,  one  of  them  at  least,  that  all  States  have  raihvay  commis- 
sions, regulating  rates,  and  so  on,  and  as  arbitrator  between  the  people 
and  the  railroads;  but  as  it  is  now  we  pay  a  great  deal  more  on  ship- 
ments after  we  cross  the  Territorial  line  than  we  do  in  our  own  Terri- 
tory. Then  there  would  l)e  centers  built  up  there  and  markets,  and 
there  would  ])e  sectional  feeling,  and  their  ambitions  and  their  irder- 
ests  would  l)e  to  build  up  their  own  town. 

DEVELOPMENT   RAPID. 

Q.  You  seem  to  be  getting  along  pretty  well  in  Oklahoma  City  at  the 
present.  What  about  the  development  of  this  Territory? — A.  Our 
business  is  very  satisfactoiy.  The  dexelopment  of  the  Territory  is 
very,  very  rapid.     It  is  going  as  fast  as  we  can  keep  up  with  it. 

Q.  What  about  the  farmers:! — A.  The  farmers  of  Oklahoma  are 
very  prosperous. 

Q.  What  is  the  proportion  of  your  bad  delfts!' — A.  Our  losses  this 
year  will  run  about  one-third  of  1  percent  of  our  sales.  That  is  about 
what  they  will  run  in  Illinois  or  Indiana. 

Q.  The  committee  can  not  help  but  observe  on  the  street  here  these 
innnense  business  houses.  What  is  the  volume  of  your  business?— A. 
Yes,  sir;  we  had  a  business  of  a  million  and  a  quarter  here  at  this  point; 
and  we  also  have  another  house  at  Enid,  Ind.  T. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  207 

GOOD   CLASS   OF    TEOrLK. 

Q.  So  that  tho  l)usinoss  iiumi  here  nvo  very  prosperous? — A.  Yes, 
sir;  we  have  a  u'ood  ehiss  of  peopU^  and  merchants. 

Q.  What  is  your  hank  rate  hei'ei^  what  are  3'our  rates  of  interest? — 
A.  We  borrow  money  in  New  York  in  our  own  business. 

Q.  Is  New  York  willing-  to  loan  3'ou  money  out  here,  notwithstand- 
ing the  fact  that  you  are  a  Territory  ? — A.  Yes,  sir;  we  borrow  mone}^ 
at  4i  per  cent  in  New  York,  and  we  sold  paper  here  during-  the  Hurry 
for  tU. 

Q.  What  is  your  rate  here  ? — A.  We  can  liorrow  uioiiey  here  at  8 
per  cent,  but  we  borrow  it  in  New  York.  New  York  knows  what 
business  is.  and  they  don't  care  whether  we  are  a  Territor}-  or  not. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

C.  G.  Jones  voluntarily  appeared  ])efore  the  committee,  and  Hrst 
having  been  duly  sworn,  testiiied. 

Bv  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.   Are  you  the  mayor  of  this  city  t — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Well,  sir,  will  you  state  to  this  committee  what  the  feeling  of 
this  city  is  in  respect  to  statehood? — A.  There  is  a  unanimous  feeling 
of  the  people  here,  I  think,  in  favor  of  statehood. 

Q.  lender  what  conditions? — A.  Single  statehood,  including  ,the 
Indian  Territory. 

Q.   What  is  the  population  of  your  city  ? — A.  Twenty-two  thousand. 

Q.  What  is  the  assessed  valuation  of  your  property? — A.  Close  to 
four  million. 

Q.  And  the  rate  of  taxation  ? — A.  Two  fourteen. 

Q.  What  proportion  of  the  trade  of  the  city  is  in  the  Indian  Terri- 
tory ? — A.  A  great  deal  of  it.  As  we  have  the  wholesale  grocers  here, 
they  have  a  great  deal  of  trade  in  the  Indian  Territory. 

Q.  You  don't  know  what  proportion? — A.  No,  sir;  I  do  not  know 
what  proportion. 

INDUSTRIES   of   THE    CITY. 

Q.  The  city  is  sustained  by  what  industries  mainW  ? — A.  Largely  by 
the  agricultural  industries  in  the  surrounding  country. 

Q.  Now,  if  there  is  anything  you  would  like  to  say  to  the  committee 
bearing  on  this  question  we  would  be  glad  to  have  you  say  so. — A. 
One  of  the  objects  in  wanting  single  statehood  is  that  the  business  of 
the  two  Territories  is  so  intermingled  together  that  it  woidd  be  hard 
to  separate  it  as  I  see  it  at  this  time. 

DESIRE   INDIAN   TERRITORY   ADDED. 

Q.  What  is  the  feeling  of  the  comuuunty  about  really  desiring  state- 
hood or  remaining  under  the  present  conditions? — A.  Well,  the  feel- 
ing of  the  people — 90  per  cent  of  them,  at  least — would  be  in  favor  of 
statehood  if  we  could  get  Indian  Territory  added. 

Q.  But  you  would  not  want  it  alone? — A.  There  would  1)6  some 
that  would  prefer  statehood  as  the  boundary  lines  are  now. 

Q.  If  they  could  not  get  that,  would  a  majority  of  the  people  say 
as  to  remaining  under  present  conditions? — A.  They  would  prefer  to 


208  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

\vdVo  it  under  present  conditions  rather  than  to  liave  statehood  as 
Oklalionia  })oundaiT  lines  are  now, 

Q.  II"  there  is  anything  further  you  woukl  like  to  say.  you  nia}^ 
proceed. — A.  I  am  now  connected  with  railroad  buildino- — building-  a 
railroad  nearly  through  the  entire  Indian  and  Oklahoma  Territories — 
and  for  the  railroad  we  would  like  to  have  a  single  State. 

Q.  There  is  no  difficulty  in  getting  capital  to  come  in  here,  is 
there?— A.  No,  sir;  I  have  just  signed  and  issued  !|8,5O0,0O(i  of  bonds 
that  were  issued  and  h3'pothecated  at  4  per  cent. 

A    COMMERCIAL    CENTER. 

Q.  Were  these  railroad  })onds!! — A.  Yes,  sir.  I  want  to  state  that 
this  is  a  commercial  center  and  that  my  statement  is  from  a  commer- 
cial standpoint  and  not  from  a  political  standpoint.  This  is  not  the 
political  center.  Guthrie  is  the  political  center.  Oklahoma  City  is 
the  commercial  center  for  the  Southwest  for  Oklahoma  and  the  Indian 
Territory. 

MONEY    RATES. 

Q.  Do  you  want  to  make  any  statement  to  the  committee  with 
regard  to  the  rates  of  money  in  this  Territory? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  would 
like  to  speak  of  that.  The  "rate  of  money  on  farm  loans  can  readily 
be  had  at  6  per  cent  tiat  from  insurance  companies.  We  have  issued 
some  4  per  cent  thirty-year  bonds  and  sold  them  at  2  per  cent  pre- 
mium. Our  credits  liere  are  looked  after  and  are  in  as  much  demand 
as  credits  are  in  States,  both  for  municipal,  railroads,  and  all  other 
credits. 

Q.  Would  the  Territorial  form  of  government  that  you  have  had  up 
to  the  present  time  retard  your  development  ?— A.  No,  sir;  1  think  not. 

Q.  Do  you  think  3'ou  would  have  gone  ahead  as  fast  as  you  would 
had  you  had  State  government? — A.  Yes,  sir,  I  do;  because  the  devel- 
opments we  have  made  in  the  thirteen  years  is  phenomenal:  and  the 
very  fact  of  giving  us  statehood,  what  is  known  as  single  statehood, 
with  both  Oklahoma  and  the  Indian  Territory  would  increase  the  prop- 
erty of  our  country,  as  I  think,  from  a  commercial  standpoint. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

I.  M.  HoLCOMB  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  committee,  and 
first  having  been  duly  sw^orn  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chair:man: 

Q.  State  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  I.  M.  Holcomb. 

Q.   Do  you  live  here? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.   Were  you  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes.  sir. 

Q.  Was  your  district  in  town  or  out  in  the  country? — A.  It  was  in 
town,  the  Third  ward. 

Q.  What  was  the  actual  enumeration  in  your  district? — A.  Twenty- 
five  hundred  and  something.     The  census  of  our  city  was  10,000. 

Q.  Was  your  enumeration  correct  at  that  time? — A.  Well.  I  think 
it  was  about  what  was  there. 

Q.  Have  you  observed  any  increase  since  that!' — A.  Yes,  sir;  a 
decided  increase. 

Q.  In  that  quarter? — A.  Yes,  sir. 


NKW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  209 

Q.  By  iminioration,  or  liow^  — A.  Well,  largely  by  imnii^iatioii; 
ye.s,  sir. 

Q.  You  are  also  the  .superintendent  of  .sehools? — A.  Ye.s,  sir;  1  wa.s 
until  la.st  March. 

Q.  Of  thi.s  city>— A.  Yes,  sir. 

SCHOOL    ATTENDANCE. 

Q.  What  was  the  number  of  children  in  actual  attendance  in  your 
schools  while  you  were  superintendent? — A.  Last  year  in  March,  when 
I  went  out,  at  a  rough  estimate,  it  was  3,300. 

Q.  How  many  teachers  did  you  have? — A.  We  had  (55  teachers  when 
I  went  out. 

Q.  Do  you  have  a  high  schools — A.  Yes,  sir. 

COURSE    OF    STUDY. 

Q.   What  were  the  studies  of  the  last  grade  of  the  hig-h  school? — 
Trigonometry  was  our  hig-hest  mathematics. 
A.    We  had  Virgil   for  Latin,  and  we  had  geology  and  the  sciences. 

Q.  Where  did  you  take  Cte.sar  and  those  elementary  thing's  in 
Latin? — A.  In  the  second  year.  We  had  Harkness  system  in  the  first 
year's  work,  Caesar  in  the  second,  Cicero  in  the  third,  and  Virg-il  in 
the  fourth. 

Q.  Do  you  Avant  to  make  any  statement  as  to  the  statehood  ques- 
tion?— A.  I  want  one  State  out  of  the  two  Territories,  because  we  feel 
the  two  Territories  complement  each  other. 

Q.  Do  you  want  single  statehood  for  Oklahoma  or.  if  you  can  not 
get  that  now%  wait  until  the  Indian  Territory  can  come  in? — A.  Well, 
I  want  the  two  tog'ether. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

T.  B.  Jones  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  couanittee  and,  first 
having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Ohaikman: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  T.  B.  Jones. 

Q.  You  were  a  census  enumerator? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Was  your  district  in  town  or  out  in  the  country? — A.  The  First 
Ward  in  the  city. 

Q.  Do  you  remem])er  what  the  emuiieration  was? — A.  In  my  ward 
it  was  something  like  1,800. 

Q.  Did  you  take  an  oath  to  take  the  census  accurately? — A.  Yes, 
sir. 

Q.   Did  you  do  so? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  did  so  to  the  best  of  my  abilit3\ 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

And  here,  at  the  hour  of  12  o'clock  noon,  the  committee  arose,  to 
resume  hearings  at  the  cit}'  of  Guthrie,  Okla.,  on  the  above  date. 


Hotel  Royal,  (Iuthkie,  Okla., 

Monday^  Noveiiiher  '21^.,  1902 — 2  jp.  m. 
At  the  above-named  place  and  date  theconmiittee  resumed  the  hear- 
ing of  statements  and  testimony  relative  to  the  admission  of  Oklahoma 
Territory  and  Indian  T'erritory  to  statehood. 

h  s  b 14 


210  NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL. 

Hon.  Thomas  B.  Ferguson,  Govornor  of  Okhihoina,  appeared  before 
the  conimittce  and  made  a  statement  relative  to  the  admission  of  Okla- 
homa Territory  to  statehood,  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Governor,  the  committee  will  l)e  pleased  to  have  you  make  what- 
ever statements  you  desire  to  make. — A.  I  presume — in  fact,  I  do  not 
kuow  just  the  line  along  which  you  are  asking  this  information.  Are 
you  wanting-  information  in  regard  to  the  condition  of  the  Territories? 

Q.  Anything  that  you  desire  to  say.  1  take  it  that  the  committee 
would  be' glad  to  hear  anything  l)earing  on  any  phase  or  all  phases  of 
the  question  now  before  the  committee,  also  anything  you  may  have 
to  submit  on  the  question  of  double  or  single  statehood. — A,  Well, 
now,  as  to  a  statement  of  the  conditions  and  resources  of  the  Territory, 
do  you  particularly  want  anything  of  that  kind  i  I  can  give  it  if  you 
desire. 

Q.  Did  you  read  Mr.  Flynn's  statement  before  the  committee? — A. 
Yes,  sir. 

CENSUS    RETURNS. 

Q.  Have  you  anything  to  say  in  addition  to  that? — A.  Nothing,  only 
the  later  changes.  Our  last  population  the  census  return'^-  gave  us 
541,0(J0  people.  However,  we  believe  it  is  not  up  to  the  full  standard. 
We  think  that  the  changes  in  the  population  of  the  Territory  will  easily 
make  600,000  people. 

Q.  Is  that  by  immigration  since  ^ — A.  Yes,  sir;  by  inmiigration. 

Q.  You  do  not  impeach  the  census  then?— A.  No,  sir:  1  do  not. 
There  has  been  a  constant  rush  into  the  Territory.  I  think  the  census 
was  nearly  accurate — as  nearly  as  could  be.  Our  assessed  valuation, 
as  returned  for  the  Territory",  was  $72,600,000.  We  went  over  that 
matter  recently  in  the  auditor's  office  and  found  that  the  assessors 
returned  property,  including  all  real  estate  and  personal  of  every  kind, 
with  a  little  less  than  one-fourth  of  its  value,  which  would  give  us  about 
two  hundred  and  eighty-eight  to  three  hundred  million  dollars  of  prop- 
erty. We  have  in  the  Territory  about  ITO  school  ciiildren,  and  along 
that  line  I  have  a  statement  that  I  would  submit  that  would  cover  all 
that  ground. 

SENTIMENT    FOR   STATEHOOD. 

Q.  Do  you  wish  to  make  this  statement  as  a  part  of  your  statement 
here? — A^  Yes,  sir;  I  wish  to  make  it  as  a  part  of  my  statement.  And 
in  regard  to  the  sentiment  for  statehood  over  the  Territory,  I  think  it 
is  universal  among  all  classes,  regardless  of  political  affiliations;  I 
think  that  the  people  of  the  Territory  are  for  statehood.  We  believe 
that  we  are  entitled  to  statehood,  and  entitled  to  it  now.  We  believe 
that  our  conditions  warrant  it  in  every  r(\spect — financially  and 
educationally,  and  from  a  standpoint  of  population.  Of  course  we 
believe  that  a  majority  of  the  people  of  the  Territory  want  statehood 
for  Oklahoma.  1  believe  that;  and,  unless  there  are  questions  that 
you  want  to  ask,  that  is  all  I  care  to  state. 

Q.  Governor,  what  have  you  to  state  as  to  the  proposition  that  is  in 
the  minds  of  the  people  down  here  as  to  single  statehood,  as  it  is  called 
here? — A.  Well,  a  majority  of  the  people  of  the  Territory  are  not  in 
favor  of  single  statehood.  '  We  ))elieve  that  it  would  impose  a  burden 


NKW  statp:h<)<)D  hill,  211 

of  taxation  upon  us  to  heuUicHl  with  the  Indian  Territoiy  which  would 
))e  unjust  to  the  people  of  this  Territory,  and  especially  does  that  hold 
good  as  to  the  school  funds  and  the  taxation  for  improvement  in  the 
Indian  Territory  which  they  haye  not  at  this  time.  They  have  ahout 
l|60,<»00,00()  worth  of  taxa])le  property,  according  to  an  estimate  of  a 
committee  sent  from  the  Territory  to  investigate  affairs  in  the  Indian 
Territory,  and  we  feel — 1  say  we;  I  think  I  speak  for  at  least  a 
majority  of  the  people  of  Oklahoma — that  it  would  impose  a  burden 
of  taxation,  extra  and  additional,  that  we  are  at  this  time  hardly  able 
to  bear. 

LANDS    SET    ASIDE    FOR    SCHOOL   PURPOSES. 

By  Senator  Heitfeld: 

Q.  What  lands  have  you  of  the  State  lands  set  aside  for  your  schools 
and  other  educational  institutions? — A.  We  have  sections  16  and  36 
set  apart  for  school  interests  and  13  and  33  for  buildings. 

Q.  Has  the  Indian  Territory  any  such  provisions? — A.  It  has  no 
lands  to  set  apart  at  all.  It  has  no  taxable  property  at  all  except  real 
estate  and  personal  property.  The  real  estate  in  towns — town  lots. 
It  has  no  lands  in  m}'  judgment  which  can  be  set  apart. 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  When  these  allotments  are  made  and  the  titles  perfected,  then 
that  land  will  be  taxable? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  So  that  when  that  is  done  it  will  add  to  the  present  160,000,000 
worth  of  taxal)le  property  which  they  have  at  the  present  time? — A. 
That  remnant  of  land  w^ould  be  taxable. 

Q.  But  how  long  would  it  be  before  that  land  would  ])e  taxable? — 
A.  Well,  what  do  you  say  i  Twenty-one  years  was  my  understanding 
about  it. 

Q.  We  understood  that  it  would  be  taxable  in  live  years? — A.  I 
think  that  is  a  mistake. 

RESOL^RCES   OF   THE    INDIAN    TERRITORY. 

Q.  What  about  the  resources  of  the  Indian  Territory  in  the  way  of 
coal  mines,  tim))er,  and  so  on  ? — A.  They  have  vast  resources.  Their 
resources  in  coal  and  timber  are  far  ahead  of  ours.  Our  resources  are 
purely  agriculture.  We  have  in  the  western  part  of  the  Territory 
what  geologists  claim  is  an  unlimited  cement  deposit.  It  is  being- 
worked  no^v  and  hundreds  of  barrels  are  being  shipped  out.  We  have 
salt  deposits  that  are  being  utilized,  but  beyond  that  w^e  have  little 
wealth  of  that  character  and  w^e  depend  almost  wholl}'  upon  our  agri- 
cultural interests. 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.  You  say  you  are  in  favor  of  statehood  for  Oklahoma  alone.  Do 
I  understand  you  to  say  that  you  would  faAor  eventual  statehood  for 
the  Indian  Territory,  or  favor  having  the  Indian  Territory  come  in  in 
parcels? — A.  Oh,  we  are  in  favor  of  Oklahoma  statehood  at  the  pres- 
ent time  with  the  provision  for  the  Indian  Territory  to  be  added  from 
time  to  time  as  conditions  will  permit,  but  we  hai'dly  feel  at  this  stage 
in  our  Territorial  history  that  it  would  l)e  exact  justice  to  tax  us  with 
the  })urden  that  would  necessarily  result  from  an  alliance  with  the 
Indian  Territory  at  this  time. 


212  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

liy  the  CiiAiiiMAN: 
Q.  What  would  you  say  as  to  the  proposition  of  separate  statehood 
for  the  Indian  Territory, 'first  as  a  Territorial  government  and  event- 
uallv  separate  statehood  ?  Do  you  think  the  people  desire  that  ^— A.  _  1 
believe  that  a  majority  of  the"  people  of  this  Territory  would  be  in 
favor  of  that.  I  think  the  majority  of  the  people  ac([uiesce  in  the 
present  bill,  and  y(>t  1  believe  that  the  prevailing  sentiment  in  the  Ter- 
ritory would  l)e  in  favor  of  Oklahoma  as  a  separate  State, 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 
Q.   Is  this  opinion  confined  to  any  section,  or  is  it  all  over  the  Ter- 
ritory 'i     Would  Oklahoma  City  take  one  stand  on  that  and  Guthrie 
take  another  stand  u[)on  that  question^ — A.  To  some  extent. 

POLITICAL    features    ELIMINATED. 

Of  course,  we  understand  that  all  political  features  are  to  be  elimi- 
nated in  these  matters,  but  simply  referring  to  the  last  election  would 
illustrate  that.  The  eastern  portion  of  the  Territory  voted  largely 
regardless  of  political  affiliations  against  the  proposition  upon  which 
Mr.  McGuire  was  elected. 

By  the  Chairman: 
Q.  What  was  the  i)roposition  for  which  they  voted  affirmatively^ — 
A.  Single  statehood.  The  two  Territories  to  be  admitted  too-ether.  I 
know  that  the  matter  came  up  in  committee  meetings  in  this  way.  I 
know  that  the  Democrats  and  Republicans  in  the  neighborhood  of 
Shawnee  were  supporting  Mr.  Cross  on  the  ground  that  his  stand  as 
the  representative  of  the  Territory  would  l)c  for  Oklahoma  statehood. 

ISSUE  or  immediate  statehood. 

In  the  Avestern  part  of  the  Territory,  all  along  the  Rock  Island,  the 
people,  regardless  of  party,  supported  Mr.  ^NIcGuire  on  the  issue  of 
immediate  statehood. 

Q.  Has  the  proposition  been  up  to  your  people  yet  for  consideration 
or  for  expression  of  opinion  by  voting  or  otherwise  as  to  immediate 
statehood  for  Oklahoma  Territory  with  eventual  statehood  for  the 
Indian  Territory  ^— A.  That  has  never  been  before  our  people.  That 
has  only  been  discussed  a  little  in  the  press. 

Q.  Then  do  you  desire  to  have  your  former  opinion  expressed  as  in 
favor  of  that  idea  of  making  two  States  out  of  these  two  Territories^  — 
A.  I  believe  I  would  be  honestly  stating  the  prevailing  sentiment  in 
the  Territory  in  making  that  statement.  I  would  be  willing  to  have 
that  statement  made. 

Q.  What  is  the  feeling  in  the  Indian  Territory  on  that  question^— 
A.  The  prevailing  sentiment  for  statehood  with  Oklahoma  as  far  as  I 
have  been  able  to  ascertain,  I  think  there  is  an  element  there  at  places 
for  statehood  regardless  of  Oklahoma.  1  gather  largely  from  the 
press  of  that  Territorv,  but  I  believe  that  the  prevailing  sentiment,  if 
it  could  be  ascertained  in  the  Indian  Territory,  especially  among  the 
business  men,  is  for  Oklahoma  statehood— that  is,  statehood  Avith 
Oklahoma. 


NEW    STATP:H0(>D    lULL.  213 

Q.  Single  .statehood,  so  called?— A.  Sino-le  statehood;  yes,  sir. 
And  further  witness  saith  not. 

Here  follows  the  statement  tiled  by  the  last-named  witness  as  a  part 
of  liis  testimony: 

POPULATION. 

The  population  of  Okhihoma,  as  shown  by  the  returns  of  the  county 
assessors,  is  541,480.  This  shows  a  gain  over  1901  of  142,149,  or  nearly 
'M\  per  cent.  This  enumeration  indicates  an  average  of  14  persons  to 
the  square  mile  of  area. 

The  combined  population  of  the  three  new  counties,  Comanche  and 
Kiowa,  is  78, 838. 

Percentage  of  illiteracy  is  5i  per  cent. 

Percentage  of  foreign  born  is  4  per  cent. 

Valuation  of  property  returned  for  taxation  in  1902  was  $72,677,428, 
showing  an  increase  of  $12,212,727  over  1901. 

PROPERTY. 

As  the  property  is  returned  liy  the  assessors  at  al)Out  one-fourth  of 
its  actual  value,  it  is  evident  that  the  real  value  of  the  taxable  property 
in  the  Territory  is  about  JS^800,000,000. 

Value  of  farm  lands  as  returned $22,  614,  650 

Value  of  town  property  as  returned 11,  629, 199 

Value  of  railroads  as  returned 6,  339,  462 

Value  of  moneys  and  credit  as  returned 3,  068,  273 

Value  of  other  property  as  returned 29,  025,  839 

TAXES. 

Territorial  tax  levy  is  lit-  mills.  Resulting  revenues  will  be 
|5f)6,950.90,  which  is  an  increase  of  $113,398.69  over  1901. 

INDEBTEDNESS. 

The  Territorial  indebtedness  on  November  80, 1902,  was  $466,950.43, 
which  is  about  85  cents  per  capita. 

BONDS. 

The  bond-interest  fund  has  to  its  credit  $21,504.02.  The  Territorial 
levy  for  this  fund  was  increased  to  one-half  mill,  which  it  is  expected 
will  so  increase  the  fund  that  the  bonds  may  be  redeemed  at  an  early 
date. 

There  is  deposited  in  the  I'erritorial  depository  the  sum  of  $532,498. 30. 

Some  2,968,000  acres  of  land  have  been  settled  upon  during  the  past 
year,  and  there  are  yet  about  8,777,»>(>0  acres,  not  included  in  reserves, 
open  for  settlement*.     This  land  is  mostly  located  in  Beaver  County. 

SCHOOL   LAND. 

All  of  the  2,055,000  acres  of  school  land  are  leased,  and  the  income 
for  the  year  1902  from  the  same  will  amount  to  about  $8<>(>,(H)0,  which 
is  more  than  double  that  received  for  the  previous  year,  iientals  have 
been  reasonable,  and  as  a  rule  well  paid. 


21-1  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

SrilOOL   ATTENDANCE, 

There  were  taught  during"  the  year  l!>Ol,  2,278  schools,  with  an  aggre- 
gate atteiuhmce  of  110,971,  being  112,048  white  and  4,1»28  colored. 
The  total  amount  paid  teachers  in  salaries  was  $502,277.  Total  amount 
expended  among  common  graded  schools  was  $783,679.49.  Two  hun- 
dred and  seventeen  schoolhouses  were  erected  at  a  cost  of  $lol.958.72. 
One  thousand  eight  hundred  and  two  pupils  were  graduated  from  our 
common  schools.  Territorial  school  fund,  amounting  to  $267,105.14, 
was  apportioned  among  the  various  counties. 

KAILWAY   MILEAGE. 

The  railway  mileage  as  returned  for  taxation  in  ]March  was  1,413.20 
miles  of  main  track  and  178.55  miles  of  side  track.  Over  500  miles  of 
railroad  have  been  built  during  the  past  year. 

Shipments  out  of  the  Territory  during  the  past  year  were: 

Cattle far  loads. .  6,  442 

Wheat do. . . .  18,  593 

C'Orn do 210 

Castor  beans do 65 

Oats do 308 

Hogs <lo 2,  252 

Cotton  seed do 709 

Hay do....  1,209 

Flour do. . . .  4,  482 

Horses  and  mules do 391 

Mill  stuff do ... .  1 ,  846 

Cotton bales. .  164,  453 

Shipments  into  the  Territory  during  same  period  as  leportecl  by  all 
railroads  except  the  Choctaw: 

Carloads. 

Farm  machinery 1,  091 

Vehicles 1 237 

Flour : 1,  862 

Emigrant  goods 2,  883 

Coal 7,  225 

LIVE    STOCK. 

Live  stock  returned  for  taxation  was  as  follows: 

Horses 280,  939 

Mules 58, 143 

Cattle 959,  816 

Sheep  and  goats 38,  308 

Swine 189, 218 

FARM   LAND. 

Six  million  three  hundre<l  and  forty-four  thousand  six  hundred  and 
sixty-two  acres  of  farm  land  Avere  listed  for  taxation  in  1902,  being  an 
increase  of  1,  792,815  over  1901. 

The  average  price  per  acre  of  transfers  during  the  month  of  April, 
1902,  was  U^Ad. 

PUBLIC    BUILDING    FUND. 

There  is  now  in  the  pu))lic  building  fund  the  sum  of  $243,612.95. 
The  public  ])uildings  wdiich  are  most  needed  at  the  present  time  are  a 
penitentiary,  reform  school,  insane  asjdum,  deaf  mute  school,  and  a 
blind  asylum. 


NEW    STATKHOOD    BILL.  215 

TKHKITOHIAL    PRISONERS. 

Some  300  Territcn-ial  prisoiicr.s  have  l)oen  kept  under  eoiitract  in  the 
Kansas  State  penitentiary  at  Lansino-,  at  a  cost  to  the  Territory  of 
$27,488.80  for  maintenance  and  13.794.40  for  commitment,  from  Janu- 
ary 1  to  Octoljer  1,  1902. 

The  Territory  has  exj^ended  during-  the  present  year  the  sum  of 
$14,2<J6.48  for  the  care  of  the  deaf  and  dumb. 

INSANE. 

There  has  been  exi)ended  from  January  1  to  October  1,  1!^<»2,  the 
sum  of  $44,677.50  for  the  cai-e  of  the  insane  and  $4,498.79  for  commit- 
ment of  the  same. 

NATIONAL    BANKS. 

Number  of  national  l)anks  has  increased  during  the  past  year  from 
31  to  60,  and  the  Territorial  banks  from  113  to  1.52. 

Average  reserve  held  by  Territorial  banks per  cent. .  54. 1 

Total  capital  stock. . . .  .* $1,  247, 940.  26 

Total  deposit 6,  962,  429.  00 

Total  capital  stock  national  banks 1,  949,  800.  00 

Total  deposit 10,  000,  917.  00 

CITIES. 

There  are  20  cities  of  the  first  class  in  the  Territory,  of  which  5 
were  incorporated  during-  the  past  year. 

There  are  338  registered  pharmacists  and  141  licensed  dentists  in  the 
Territory. 

There  are  12  companies  in  the  National  Guard,  a  troop  and  batter}^ 
comprising  825  men. 

MANUFACTURING    ESTABLISHMENTS. 

There  are  in  the  Territory  231  manufacturing  establishments,  employ- 
ing 3,051  hands;  125  wholesale  establishments,  employing  959  hands, 
aiid  228  grain  elevators  having  a  combined  capacity  of  2,857,000 
bushels,  and  48  tlour  mills  having  an  output  of  8,760  barrels  per  day. 

INSURANCE    COMPANIES. 

There  are  doing  business  in  the  Territory  the  following  number  of 
insurance  companies: 

Fire  and  tornado 43 

Steam  boiler 3 

Life 21 

Hail 3 

Accident 6 

Fire 3 

Plate  glass ^ 

Fraternal 18 

THE    TERRITORIAL   LIBRARY. 

The  Territorial  librarv  now  contains  10,081:  volumes. 


216  np:w  statehood  bill. 

Thomas  N.  Kobnett  vohinturily  appeared  before  the  committee 
and,  iirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testitied  as  follows: 

By  the  C^hairman: 

Q.  Please  state  to  the  committee  your  name,  your  place  of  residence, 
j^our  business,  and  what  your  official  possition  is. — A.  My  name  is 
Thomas  N.  Robnett;  reside  at  Ardmore,  Ind.  T. ;  my  occupation 
I'nited  States  commissioner. 

Q.  Have  you  any  statements  which  you  desire  to  maive  to  this  com- 
mittee which  will  be  helpful  to  the  conunittee  on  the  questions  now 
before  it!' — A.    Yes.  sir. 

Q.  Then  g-o  ahead. — A.  Well,  we  people  of  the  Indian  Territory 
are  desirous  of  ))eiiig  annexed  as  a  part  of  Oklahoma  at  a  time  when 
Oklahoma  is  admitted  to  statehood.  A  reason  for  our  desires  is  that 
we  want  to  avoid,  if  possible,  the  slow  process  of  being  annexed  after 
we  have  had  to  go  through,  like  some  of  the  other  Territories,  a  Terri- 
torial form  of  government.  We  are  now  governed  by  United  States 
courts  and  at  present  the  landed  interests  of  the  Indian  Territory  is 
all  in  the  natives  of  that  countr3\ 

INDIAN    LAND   AND    TREATIES. 

I  mean  by  that  that  the  title  to  the  land  is  in  the  Indian  or  Five 
Civilized  Tril^es,  and  under  the  treaties,  which  are  the  existing  laws, 
which  are  commonly  known  as  the  Atocas  treaty  or  the  Curtis  Act, 
that  land  is  not  subject  for  taxation  for  twenty-one  years. 

Q.  Will  the  allotment  of  this  land  by  the  Dawes  Connnission,  and 
the  perfecting  of  the  title  on  those  allotnuMits  make  it  subject  to  taxa- 
tion short  of  that  time  ? — A.  Not  without  a  change  of  existing  laws. 

Q.  The  existing  laws  is  the  treaty  with  the  Indians? — A.  Yes,  sir; 
known  as  the  Atocas  treaty. 

Q.  Do  3"ou  mean  to  say  that  the  land  over  there  will  not  be  sul)ject 
to  taxation  for  twn^nty-one  years  ^ — A.   No,  sir;  it  will  not. 

Q.  What  do  you  say  upon  the  subject  of  the  justness  of  annexing 
3'ou  to  Oklahoma  and  make  a  burden  of  taxes  borne  1)V  the  land  that 
is  subject  to  taxation  ( — A.  Our  idea  was  this:  That  sonu^  clause  should 
be  put  into  the  enabling  act  that  from  time  to  time,  as  the  landed  con- 
dition was  settled,  thai  then  the^^  should  ])ecome  a  part  of  Oklahoma 
and  that  the  jurisdiction  of  Oklahoma  be  extended  around  us  now. 

LANDED    INTERESTS   AND    LEGISLATION. 

Q.  Then,  if  I  get  your  idea  clearly,  it  is  that  a  bill  should  be  passed 
by  Congi-ess  including  in  the  State  of  Oklahoma  and  the  Indian  Terri- 
tory, and  that  as  the  landed  interests  become  settled  in  the  Indian  Ter- 
ritory that  that  part  should  coiue  in  and  i)articipate  in  the  State  gov- 
ernment?— A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  that  until  that  is  done  that  the  interests  not  included  shall 
not  participate  in  the  State  govermuent^ — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  Has  any  such  provision  ever  been  presented  to  Congress? — A. 
Yes,  sir;  I  think  it  is  included  in  the  Flynn  bill. 

Q.  No,  sir;  it  is  not.  It  permits  Congress  any  time  it  sees  tit  to 
make  a  Territoiy  and  State  out  of  Indian  Territory  at  any  time  it  sees 
fit.  Have  you  any  other  statements  to  make  to  the  committee? — A. 
Well,  we  have  some  450,000  poi)ulation  in  that  country  and  they  are 


NKW  statp:h()<>d  bill.  217 

practically  without  schools.  We  would  lik(^  our  people  in  some  way 
to  be  provided  with  schools. 

Q.  Could  not  that  be  obtained  with  a  Territorial  trovernment^ — 
A.  Yes,  sir;  I  su})pose  so.  We  have  no  pu])lic  lands  that  can  be  used 
for  that  purpos(>.  Nothing-  only  by  taxation  of  the  citizens  in  the 
nation,  not  native  citizens.  We  feel  that  we  niioht  be  able  to  make 
Cono-ress  see  these  thing's  as  we  see  them.  That  is  what  we  have  made 
this  country  what  it  is,  and  it  would  be  fair  for  Congress  to  l)uy  the 
coal  lands  from  the  Indians  and  donate  it  to  the  Territory  as  a  school 
fund;  that  is,  the  Government  of  the  Unitc^d  States  pay  for  them  out 
of  their  Treasury  and  donate  the  lands  to  us. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Sidney  Clark  appeared  voluntarily  before  the  committee,  and  first 
having-  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Dilli\(tIiam: 

Q.  You  may  state  you  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
Sidney  Clark. 

Q.  You  may  proceed  with  such  statement  as  you  wish  to  make  to 
the  committee. — A.  I  only  desire  to  make  a  remark  or  two  in  connec- 
tion with  this  subject. 

CHAIRMAN    OF    THE    STATEHOOD    EXECUTIVE    COMMITTEE. 

Q.  Well,  sir,  proceed  to  make  it. — A.  I  am  chairman  of  the  statehood 
executive  committee,  which  has  been  in  existence  in  this  Territory 
ev^er  since  the  statehood  movem?nt  was  first  started.  The  commit- 
tee is  composed  of  one  member  in  each  county.  It  is  nonpartisan  in 
character,  although  a  large  number  of  the  members  are  Republicans, 
and  there  are  some  Populists  and  Democrats.  At  the  last  convention 
I  was  made  chairman  of  a  memorial  committee.  That  convention  was 
held  on  the  80th  day  of  Jaiuiary,  190-,  while  the  last  Territorial  legis- 
lature was  in  session.  It  was  ,held  in  this  city,  and  was  composed  of 
about  300  or  850  delegates,  representing'  nearly  all  of  the  parties  and 
business  interests  in  the  Territory. 

That  convention  appointed  a  committee  to  memorialize  Cong*ress. 
composed  of  myself  as  chairman,  and  A.  J.  Seay,  F.  E.  Cillett,  and 
Dick  T.  Morgan.  The  conmiittee  formulated  a  memorial,  wdiich  was 
presented  to  the  House  of  Representatives,  and  was  before  the  Com- 
mittee on  Territories  of  the  House  of  Representatives.  Whether  or 
not  a  copy  of  this  memorial  was  presented  to  the  Committee  on  Terri- 
tories in  the  Senate  I  am  not  advised.  I  have  a  copy  here,  and  it 
represents  our  application  for  statehood.  I  think  it  is  exceedingly 
conservative  in  its  statements,  and  we  })elieve  that  it  states  sufficient 
reasons  why  we  should  be  admitted  as  a  State  in  the  I'nion.  The  fig- 
ures given  with  reference  to  population  and  some  other  matters  are 
very  much  less  than  the  actual  figures.  For  instance,  the  figures  for 
population  are  given  as  8i>8,000,  which  was  the  population  on  the  1st 
of  June,  1900,  two  yeai's  and  six  months  ag'o.  Since  that  time  three 
counties  in  the  southwest  have  been  added,  and  a  very  larg'e  population 
was  thus  brought  in  at  one  time,  and  our  estimate  of  the  population 
now  is  not  less  than  o'25JH){).  Another  correction  I  desire  to  make  in 
regard  to  this  memorial  is  in  regard  to  the  banks.     The   numl)er  of 


218  NEW    STArt^HOOD    HILL. 

iKiiiks  o-iven  here  is  very  much  less,  by  some  50  or  (lO  or  75,  than  the 
biinks  which  are  actually  in  existence  at  this  time  in  the  Territor^^ 

INCREASE   IN    NUMBER   OF    BANKS. 

There  has  been  a  very  lai-ye  increase  in  the  last  two  years  and  a  half, 
especially  under  th(>  last  law  of  (.'ono-ress  authorizing-  the  establish- 
ment of  national  banks  with  smaller  capital  than  had  theretofore  been 
authorized.  I  desire  to  say  that  about  1,(HJ()  miles  of  additional  rail- 
road has  been  constructed  or  is  under  construction;  so  1  think  1  am 
justified  in  saying  that  this  memorial  which  I  present  to  the  commit- 
tee, and  upon  which  we  are  willing  to  rest  our  case  as  to  our  right  to 
statehood,  is  very  conservative.  Unless  the  committee  desires  to  ask 
({uestions,  I  do  not  know  that  I  have  anything  further  to  sav. 

Q.  Do  you  desire  to  have  this  memorial  made  a  part  o(  your  testi- 
mony before  the  committee^ — A.  Yes,  sir;  1  w^ould  like  to  have  this 
.memorial  made  a  part  of  my  testimony. 

(Said  memorial  was  thereupon  tiled  with  the  committee,  and  is 
attached  as  Exhibit  L.) 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  Is  this  an  application  for  statehood  for  Oklahoma  alone  as  a 
Territory  ( — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  And  does  it  look  to  the  addition  of  the  Indian  Territoiyif  Does 
the  memorial  give  the  reasons  why  Oklahoma  should  be  admitted  as  a 
State  upon  its  present  population  and  resources  ( — A.  I  will  sa}'  further 
that  the  statehood  executive  conmiittee,  <'onsisting  of  persons  from  all 
parties,  mostly  Republicans,  however,  are  heartily  in  favor  of  the  bill 
which  has  been  passed  by  the  House  of  Representatives  and  is  now 
pending  in  the  Senate. 

Q.    Do  you  mean  the  omnilnis  bill  ^ — A.   Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  do  not  rest  your  case  upon  your  own  merits,  then  ^ — A.  Yes, 
sir;  we  rest  our  own  case  upon  our  own  merits. 

Q.  By  that  statement  do  you  mean  that  your  committee  have  exam- 
ined into  the  righr  to  statehood  of  the  other  two  Territones  that  you 
have  included  in  this  omnibus  l)ill,  and  are  in  favor  of  that  bill  passing, 
or  none;! — A.   No,  sir;  that  is  not  my  answer. 

Q.  Do  you  mean  by  that  that  you  are  in  favor  of  the  Flynn  l)ilH — 
A.  I  say  that  individually  1  am  in  favor  of  the  Flynn  ])ill.  The  state- 
ment that  we  make  on  behalf  of  Oklahoma  is  that  Oklahoma  is  abun- 
dantly able  for  statehood.  In  answering  the  question  further  1  do  not 
speak  for  the  committee  at  all. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Thomas  H.  Doyle  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  conmiittee  and, 
lirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testiiied  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Burnham: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
Thomas  11,  Doyle. 

Q.   Where  do  you  reside? — A.  At  Perry,  Noble  County.  Okla. 

Q.  And  your  age  and  occupation? — A.  I  am  39  years  of  age,  and  a 
lawyer  by  profession. 


NKW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  219 


SINGLIO    STATEHOOD   CONVENTION. 


Q.  Mr.  Doyle,  you  desire  to  iiiako  some  statement ;  if  you  will  pi'o- 
ceed  to  do  so\ve  will  be  ol)liged.  As  I  understand,  you  have  taken 
some  inter(^st  in  this  matter  and  you  are  the  author  of  some  l)ill  and 
we  would  like  to  know  your  views  on  that  hill. — A.  Why,  I,  as  chair- 
man of  the  delegation  selected  by  the  single  statehood  convention.  Indd 
at  Muskogee  November  12,  llHji,  to  pres(>nt  the  claims  of  the  p(M)ple 
of  both  Territories  for  recognition  l)efore  Congress,  on  the  theory  set 
forth  by  the  resolutions  and  the  memorial  adopted  by  that  convention 
asking  "that  Congress  grant  statehood  to  Oklahoma  and  Indian  Terri- 
tory, united  as  one  State,  went  to  AVashington  about  a  year  ago  at  this 
time  in  connection  with  John  Bradford,  of  Ardmore,  another  delegate, 
and,  at  the  recjuest  of  the  Conunittee  on  Territories,  prepared  a  bill  on 
the  line  of  a  union  of  Iwth  of  the  Territories  as  one  State,  which  was 
introduced  bv  Mr.  Stephens,  of  Texas,  and  is  known  as  the  Stephens 
statehood  bill*.  At  the  request  of  youi-  chairman.  Senator  Beveridge,  1 
prepared  a  bill  which  was  introduced  in  the  Senate  by  Mr.  Patterson, 
officially  known  as  Senate^  bill  8368,  which  was  practically  the  same 
bill,  and  is  entitled  "A  bill  to  provide  for  the  union  of  Oklahoma  Ter- 
ritory and  the  Indian  Territory,  and  to  enable  the  people  thereof  to 
form"  a  constitution  and  State*  government,  and  to  l)e  admitted  into 
the  Union  as  the  State  of  Oklahoma  on  an  equal  footing  with  the 
original  States,  and  to  make  donations  of  public  lands  to  such  State. 
January  30,  lt»02.  Read  twice  and  referred  to  the  Conmiittee  on  Ter- 
ritories," Avhich  bill  is  now  pending  before  the  Senate  Committee  on 
Territories.  I  believe  that  it  is  the  sentiment  of  the  people  of  Okla- 
homa and  the  Indian  Territory,  almost  unanimously  among  the  class 
of  people  who  have  given  the  "statehood  matter  any  thought,  that  the 
two  Territories  should  be  united  as  one  State. 

THE    rUBLIC   VOICP:. 

The  public  voice,  as  far  as  it  is  voiced,  as  far  as  it  has  voiced  itself 
in  nonpartisan  conventions,  has  so  declared,  the  resolutions  of  the 
most  representative  body  that  we  have  under  the  law,  being  the  legis- 
lature, has  repeatedly  declared  for  single  statehood,  the  last  declaration 
being  the  memorial  addressed  to  the  Congress  of  the  United  States, 
passed  in  March,  1901,  and  approved  by  the  governor,  which  is  printed 
on  page  193  of  the  session  laws  of  1901,  passed  without  a  dissenting 
voice  in  both  houses,  demands  single  statehood,  that  is,  a  union  of  V)oth 
Territories  as  one  State. 

COMMERCIAL   ORGANIZATIONS  DEMAND  UNION  OF  THE   TWO  TERRITORIES. 

The  commercial  clubs  and  boards  of  trade  of  the  Territory,  in  so 
far  as  they  have  expressed  themselves,  have  demanded  the  union  of 
both  Territories  as  one  State.  Oklahoma  City  demanded  on  the  line 
set  forth  in  the  Stephens  and  Patterson  bills.  This  memorial  was 
addressed  to  ('ongress  by  practically  a  full  meeting  of  the  Board  of 
Trade  of  Oklahoma  City  some  time  last  spring,  and  since  the  introduc- 
tion of  these  bills.  The  condition  of  Oklahoma  Territory,  if  admit- 
ted on  the  lines  of  the  Flynn  bill,  can  best  be  expressed  by  the  veto 
message  of  our  then  governor,  Barnes.     I  was  a  member  at  that  time 


220  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

ot"  the  ii«s('iiibly,  unci  had  ))een  a  member  of  a  previous  assemljly  with 
Governor  Barnes.  A  bill  was  passed,  as  is  some  precedent  to  justifv, 
l\v  the  leiiislative  assembly,  asking-  for  statehood,  asking  for  a  consti- 
tutional convention,  providing  that  the  Indian  Territor}'  should  be 
added  by  piecemeal.  The  bill  was  vetoed  by  Governor  Barnes,  and 
his  veto  message  occurs  on  page  1085  of  the  Council  Journal,  and  I 
ask  that  that  be  made  a  part  of  my  statement:  that  is  on  page  1085  of 
the  Council  Journal  of  l!H)l.  This  is  the  veto  message  which  I  cut 
out  of  ni}^  Council  Journal. 

And  here  said  A^eto  message,  introduced  b}'  the  witness,  was  read  to 
the  committee,  and  is  as  follows: 

Guthrie,  Okla.,  Mardt  0,  1899. 
To  the  Honorable  Council,  Fifth  Legislative  Assembly. 

Gkxtlemex:  I  believe  that  the  people  of  Oklahoma  de^iire  statehood  in  tlie  Ameri- 
can Union,  because  it  is  the  highest  and  l)est  form  of  free  government  known  to  the 
children  of  men,  and  1  am  in  hearty  sympathy  with  this  desire  and  purpose,  but  I 
do  not  believe,  all  things  considered,  that  the  enactment  of  this  bill  into  a  law  would 
advance  the  interests  of  Oklahoma  toward  the  fruition  of  our  hopes  one  iota.  No 
sincere  man  will  for  a  moment  contest  the  statement  that  a  State  government  would 
be  much  more  expensive  to  maintain  than  is  our  present  Territorial  government. 
The  expenses  of  a  State  government  nuist  be  borne  by  taxation  of  the  jn-operty  of 
the  i)eople,  and  the  people  of  Oklahoma  who  pay  the  taxes  are  not  in  conclition,  nor 
do  they  wish,  to  assume  any  additional  ijurden  of  that  I'haracter.  It  is  true  that  our 
people  have  ])een  generally  i)rosperous  for  the  past  few  years,  but  it  is  as  well  for 
those  who  have  in  keeping  the  welfare  of  the  State,  as  it  is  for  the  individual,  to  con- 
sider carefully  the  results  of  any  proposed  enterprise  before  taking  a  step  that  will 
incur  additional  obligations  and  increased  assessments  to  meet  them.  We  should 
not  forget  that  Oklahoma  is  in  some  respects  as  yet  an  experiment.  We  might  have 
a  recuirenceof  the  dry  seasons  of  1894  and  1895.  The  recent  action  of  Congress 
refusing  to  ratify  treaties  with  the  Cherokees  and  Creeks,  pledging  the  United  States 
to  a  poUcy  of  continued  separation  of  the  two  Territories,  is  significant  to  the  thought- 
ful mind  and  indicates  a  well-settled  and  determined  purjwse  in  the  minds  of  Sena- 
tors and  Representatives  never  to  admit  ( )klahoma  and  the  Indian  Territory  as  two 
States.  And  I  feel  sure  that  the  ultimate  destiny  of  the  two  Territories  is  that  of 
single  statehood.  This  being  true,  to  hold  a  constitutional  convention  at  this  time 
to  form  a  constitution  for  Oklahoma  upon  the  lines  laid  down  in  this  bill  would  not 
advance  the  matter  in  the  slightest  degree,  but,  on  the  contrary,  would  retard  and 
hinder  the  growth  of  a  healthful  political  sentiment  in  the  Indian  Territory  in  favor 
of  such  a  union.  With  the  Indian  Territory  incorporated  with  Oklahoma  in  one 
State  we  would  place  a  star  upon  the  flag  of  our  country  whose  luster  would  not  be 
dimmed  by  the  constellation  of  magniticent  States  ])v  which  we  are  surrounded. 
Our  varied  resources  of  timber,  mineral,  agricultural,  and  grazing  land  would  forever 
furnish  the  necessary  supplies  to  pay  the  expenses  of  a  lirst-class  State  government, 
and  enable  us  to  build  and  maintain  penal,  reformatory,  and  eleemosynary  institu- 
tions that  would  compare  favorably  with  those  of  the  most  advanced  and  progressive 
]n  ople,  and  all  without  the  people  who  must  always  pay  the  taxes  for  the  support  of 
the  government,  feeling  in  the  slightest  degree  the  burden  of  excessive  demand  by 
the  taxgatherers.  (_)n  the  other  hand,  Oklahoma,  with  her  resources  restricted  to 
agriculture  and  the  raising  of  cattle,  without  the  hope  even  of  development  of  voal  or 
other  minerals  in  paying  quantities,  or  the  development  of  manufat-turing  industries, 
would  be  but  a  weak  and  feeble  commonwealth  in  the  great  sisterhood  of  States. 
We  have  never,  as  yet,  raised  a  revenue  in  any  one  year  sufficient  to  pay  the  run- 
ning expenses  of  our  Territorial  government,  and  a  casual  deficit  has  been  steadily 
increasing  year  by  year.  By  reason  of  the  Federal  limitations  upon  our  debt-creating 
power,  and  by  reason  of  a  careful  and  econoniic-al  administration  of  Territorial  laws, 
aided  in  no  small  degree  by  the  (General  Government,  which  pays  a  large  share  of  our 
governmental  exi)enses,  we  have  been  al)le  to  maintain  the  credit  and  good  name  of 
our  Territory.  <  )ur  taxable  valuation,  placed  last  year  at  about  torty  millions,  was 
the  subject  of  much  criticism  by  the  people,  and  the  very  first  bill  passed  by  the  hon- 
orable House  of  Representatives  of  your  Honoral>le  body  was  to  reduce  said  valua- 
tion to  S:i2, 000,000.  I  assume,  therefore,  that  the  people  do  not  wish  to  incur  the 
expenses  of  two  special  elections  and  of  holding  a  constitutional  convention  without 
better  prospects  of  ameliorating  the  condition  of  affairs  than  this  measure  seems  to 
offer.  I  therefore  feel  constrained  to  return  council  l)ill  No.  47,  lieing  "An  act 
providing  for  the  formation  of  a  constitution." 


NEW    STATKHOOD    BILL.  221 

I  desire  to  further  state  tluit  1  believe,  by  cai-eful  researcii.  that  tiie 
provisions  of  the  Patterson  l)ill  provided  and  meet  the  conditions 
existing-  in  the  Indian  Territory  at  this  time,  it  being-  a  Territory 
without  a  county  municipal  government,  1  believe  that  section  1 
absolutely  providers  and  covers  all  the  rights  under  th(>  treaties  that 
have  been  granted  to  the  Indians.  1  believe  that  this  l)ill,  in  its 
provisions  for  the  sale  of  the  school  lands,  or  from  allowing  it  to  be 
a  matter  of  local  self-government,  providing  that  the  new  State  may 
continue  to  lease,  offers  the  pro})er  })rinciple,  as  undi'r  the  original 
grants  it  was  intended  that  it  sliould  bi'  treated  as  a  matter  of  pur('h" 
local  concern;  and  that  any  disposition  or  appropriation  of  these  funds, 
that  it  should  give  to  the  people  the  right,  to  l)e  expressed  through 
their  chosen  representatives  in  the  constitutional  convention,  or  the 
State  legislatures  that  will  sit  as  following  the  constitutional  asseml>ly. 
The  omnibus  bill  discriminates  as  against  several  of  the  Territorial 
educational  institu.tions  in  the  division  of  the  proceeds  of  the  pul)lic 
lands. 

SALE    OF    PUBLIC    SCHOOL    LANDS. 

The  provision  in  the  bill  pending  as  to  the  sale  of  the  public  school 
lands  provides  that  the  President  may  make  such  other  reservations 
in  addition  to  sections  16  and  36.  Thirteen  was  reserved  for  college 
purposes  and  83  for  building  purposes,  which  was  afterwards  ratified 
by  Congress  in  l8i>4.  Thirteen  and  33  were  not  reserved  in  original 
Oklahoma,  but  only  in  the  Cheyenne,  Arapahoe,  Iowa,  and  Kickapoo 
reseivations,  or  the  Potawatomi  Reservation,  those  only  ])eing 
reserved  in  the  seven  counties  which  include  the  Cherokee  Outlet. 
We  believe  that  it  should  be  left  to  the  constitutional  assembly,  as 
the  Patterson  bill  provides,  and  not  as  under  the  provisions  of  the 
Flynn  bill,  which  discriminates  in  favor  of  three  particular  educational 
institutions.  A  scandal  occurred  on  the  return  of  President  Boyd,  of 
the  university,  and  President  Escott,  of  the  Agricultural  College,  who 
went  down  to  Washington  and  secured  the  insertion  of  section  8  in  the 
omnibus  bill,  wdiich  modified  the  Flynn  l)ill  in  that  it  gave  one-third 
of  the  proceeds  of  all  of  those  lands  to  each  of  these  institutions.  Our 
first  governor  of  the  Territory,  ]VJr.  Steele,  at  present  a  member  of 
Congress  from  Indiana,  is  the  author  of  the  leasing-  law  which  pro- 
vides for  the  leasing  of  public  lands  in  the  Territories.  From  his 
observation  and  experience  as  governor  of  this  Territory  he  secured 
the  passage  of  that  bill.  The  people  who  failed  to  get  homesteads  in 
the  Territory  got  leases  on  sections  16  and  36,  and  13  and  33. 

VALUABLE  IMPROVEMENTS  IN  LANDS. 

These  people  have  placed  valuable  improvements  upon  these  lands, 
and  the  improvements  are  taxable.  They  have  believed  at  all  times, 
and  w^c  believe,  so  far  as  the  legislative  assembly  has  spoken — I  have 
been  the  author  of  two  bills  in  the  fifth  and  sixth  leg'islati\'e  assem- 
blies, which  were  vetoed  by  the  governor,  which  were  intended  to  give 
these  people,  these  lessees  the  right  to  have  the  preference  in  the  pur- 
chase of  those  lands,  and  that  they  should  not  be  conipelled  to  bid 
against  outside  parties  at  public  sale.  On  this  presumption,  provision 
or  full  provision  giving  them  the  preference  right,  we  made  the  ])ro- 
vision   generally   applied  to  all  in  the  Territory.     My  idea  and  the 


222  NEW    STATEHOOD    KILL. 

ideas  expressed  in  the  Patterson  bill  are  that  that  matter  should  be  left 
to  the  constitutional  assembly  or  the  State  assembly  as  to  the  manner 
of  the  disposal  of  said  lands. 

Q.  What  is  vour  view  of  the  situation  under  the  Patterson  bill^ — 
A.  I  would  provide,  after  careful  research,  that  the  deleg-ates  elexjted 
to  the  constitutional  assembly  shall  be  elected  at  large  from  each  of  the 
five  Indian  nations,  oranting  them  their  pro  rata  under  the  census  of 
1900;  that  the  constitutional  assembly  shall  have  the  right  to  create  not 
to  exceed  24:  counties;  that  in  the  State  election  to  be  held  that  the 
county  officers  necessary  to  hold  the  election,  to  wit,  the  clerk  and 
comniissioners,  be  appointed  in  these  counties  until  their  elections  can 
be  held;  that  in  the  State  election  to  l)e  held  the  county  officers  shall 
be  elected  in  these  counties;  that  pending  that  election  for  the  ratifica- 
tion of  the  constitution  and  the  election  of  State  officers,  which  are 
both  to  be  held  at  the  same  election,  the  governor  shall  appoint  the 
officers  necessary  to  hold  the  election,  to  wit,  the  clerk  and  commis- 
sioners, to  hold  office  until  the  election  is  held. 

Q.  Whv  do  vou  favor  the  two  Territories  together  ^— A.  Our  Ter- 
ritorial tax  is  now  78  cents  on  the  ^100;  it  is  excessive.  The  Gov- 
ernment now  pays  oar  judges,  our  supreme  and  nisi  prius  judges, 
our  legislative  assembly,  and  our  marshals.  In  order  to  maintain  the 
public  institutions,  our  penal  and  eleemosynary  institutions,  it  would 
increase  our  tax  rate  to  keep  up  a  State  government  almost  to  the 
point  of  confiscation  in  some  instances.  I  do  not  believe  that  the  people 
could  i)ear  the  burden  of  a  strictly  agricultural  State,  the  census  show- 
ing that  the  increase  of  population  for  the  new  States,  after  the  home- 
stead land  is  taken  up.  is  very  slow. 

THE    UNION    OF   THE    TWO    TERRITORIES    THE    REMEDY. 

The  remedy  is  that  both  of  the  Territories  should  ))e  united;  that 
the  2,400  miles  of  railroad  in  the  Indian  Territory,  the  :)00,000  acres 
of  mineral  land,  which  must  be  sold  within  two  years,  will  make  up  a 
taxable  wealth  in  the  Indian  Territory  in  addition  to  that  of  the  200 
towns  in  the  territory  of  the  new  State.  I  would  like  to  file  an  argu- 
ment with  the  conuuittee  which  I  have  of  these  bills.  We  hold  a 
statehood  convention  on  the  od  day  of  December. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Ex-Governor  C.  M.  Barnes  appeared  before  the  committee,  and 
first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  the  Chairman: 

Q.  Governor,  will  you  please  state  your  name,  for  the  records — A. 
My  name  is  C.  M.  Barnes. 

Q.  What  is  your  business  now? — A.  lam  president  of  the  Logan 
Count V  Bank  of  (nithrie,  Okla. 

Q.  'the  committee  would  be  pleased  to  have  any  statement  from 
vou  which  you  think  would  be  useful  to  the  committee. — A.  I  wish  to 
!vay  that  I  am  not  present  here  by  any  inclination  of  my  own;  that  I 
was  requested  by  several  gentlemen  to  come  before  the  coumiittee, 
and  that  I  come  riot  entirely  as  a  volunteer.  I  call  your  attention  to 
the  four  animal  reports  made  l)v  me  while  1  was  governor  of  the  Terri- 
torv,  from  Mav,  1897,  to  Mav,"l900. 


NKW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  223 

PROGRESS   AND    DEVELOPMENT    EXCEPTIONAL. 

I  want  to  siiy,  in  addition  to  what  I  have  said  here  in  those  reports 
on  that  question,  that  the  projj-ress  and  development  of  the  Territory 
has  continued  to  be  exceptional  from  that  time  up  to  the  pi'esent  time: 
that  w^e  have  had  a  succession  of  good  years  and  i>ood  crops;  that  the 
people  have  developed  the  wealth  of  the  Territory  very  ra]3idly  from 
an  agricultural  standpoint,  and  it  is  the  general  s<'ntiment  of  all  the 
people  now  that  they  are  able  to  support  and  sustain  a  Static  govern- 
ment.    The}'  are  W'rong  about  that. 

As  a  general  proposition,  I  think  the  people  generally  expect  that 
sooner  or  later  we  will  be  combined  as  a  State  with  the  Indian  Teri'i- 
tory,  but  our  people  are  not  willing  to  await  the  settlement  of  ati'airs 
over  there  until  the}'  are  ready  to  assume  the  l^urdens  of  statehood. 
We  are  read}",  willing,  and  able  to  pay  the  bill.  And  while  I  say  that. 
1  do  not  thiid-L  that  there  is  any  great  popular  clamor  for  haste  or  for 
immediate  statehood.  We  would  be  perhaps  willing-  to  w^ait  another 
year.  If  a  ])ill  could  be  granted  so  as  to  place  our  campaign  one  year 
later  our  people  would  be  very  well  satisfied  with  that;  I  think  so. 
But  as  a  general  rule  our  people  are  able  and  willing,  and  would  be 
glad  to  have  the  bill  passed  as  it  is  now  pending  before  the  Senate, 
with  perhaps  some  few  amendments,  which  are  not  necessary  to 
mention. 

Q.  Which  bill? — A.  The  part  of  the  bill  wliich  relates  to  Oklahoma, 
which  is  known  as  the  omnibus  bill. 

Q.  In  other  words,  the  Flynn  bill,  which  has  been  made  a  part  of 
the  omnibus  bill? — A.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  that  the  people  here  generally 
favor  the  passage  of  that  bill. 

Q.  You  confine  your  remai'ks  to  that  part  of  the  bill  which  affects 
Oklahoma? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

OKLAHOMA    SENTIMENT    AS   TO    ARIZONA    AND    NEW    MEXICO. 

The  people  here  have  no  intei'est  in  the  part  of  the  bill  which  relates 
to  Arizona  and  New  Mexico,  and  I  guess  if  there  is  any  sentiment 
here  on  that  c[uestion  it  is  unfavora))le.  I  want  to  call  attention  to 
the  last  paragraph  of  my  last  repoi't,  which  was  made  two  years  ago, 
and  that  is  very  short.  It  reads  as  follows:  "The  citizenship  of 
Oklahoma  is  very  largely  composed  of  intelligent  and  educated  people. 
American  born  and  raised  in  the  various  States  about  us,  who  know 
the  oldigations  and  are  willing  to  assume  the  full  responsibilities  of 
statehood.*"  I  do  not  know  that  I  have  anything  further  to  add.  ami 
I  thank  the  committee  for  this  opportunity  to  present  these  matters. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

S.  T.  Goodman  voluntaril}^  appeared  before  the  conunittee,  and. 
first  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Dillingham: 

Q.  You  may  state  your  name  to  the  committee. — A.  My  name  is 
S.  T.  Goodman. 

Q.  Have  you  any  oflicial  position? — A.  No,  sir. 

Q.   Where  do  you  live? — A.  At  Tonkavva,  Okla. 

Q.  Now,  make  your  statement  in  the  briefest  possible  form,  as  we 
are  pressed  for  time. 


224  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

A    TKKRITOKIAL    SCHOOL. 

A.  Two  years  ago  the  legislature  of  this  Territory  established  a  Ter- 
ritorial school  for  higher  educational  purposes  in  Kay,  in  what  we 
know  as  "'The  Strip""  do VA^n  here.  And  in  arranging  this  statehood 
hill  that  is  now  before  the  Senate  there  was  not  any  provision  made 
for  this  school  to  rt^'eive  any  of  the  benefits  from  that  school  land 
whatever.  I  refer  now  to  section  13  in  each  township,  which  was 
oranted  V)y  President  Cleveland's  proclamation  opening  the  Territory. 
It  was  granted  for  the  use  of  the  Territorial  schools  for  higher  educa- 
tional purposes,  and  this  school,  which  was  recently  organized,  I  think 
it  was  overlooked;  and  we  are  only  seeking  to  get  a  share,  our  share, 
of  whatever  belongs  to  the  school  of  that  land,  or  the  proceeds  of  it. 

Q.  That  is  the  point  that  you  want  to  make  to  the  committee,  is  it, 
Mr.  Goodman^ — A.  Yes,  sir. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

Judge  J.  C.  Strancj  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  committee  and, 
lirst  having  been  duly  sworn,  testified  as  follows: 

By  Senator  Burnham: 

Q.  Are  you  now  holding  judicial  ofBce? — A.  No,  sir;  I  have  never 
been  on  the  l)ench  here;  1  have  been  on  the  ])ench  twelve  years  in 
Kansas.  I  was  attorney-general  for  the  last  term,  last  spring,  here  in 
the  Territory. 

Q.  And  you  have  been  a  resident  here  how  long? — A.   Since  1893. 

Q.   And  you  are  now  engaged  in  the  general  practice? — A.  Yes,  sir. 

Q.  You  have  some  statement  to  make;  if  you  will  state  it  briefly  we 
will  be  obliged. — A.  I  desire  to  say  this:  That  in  mv  judgment  we  do 
not  need  any  statehood  until  the  Indian  country  is  ready  to  come  in 
with  us.  I  believe  if  w^e  get  statehood  for  Oklahoma  now,  and  get 
our  pennl  and  chsiritable  institutions  located  and  Iniilt,  it  will  mean 
statehood  for  Oklahoma  for  all  time. 

OKE    OOOD    state    FROI    THE    TWO    TERRITORIES. 

It  seems  to  me  that  we  ought  to  have  one  good  State  from  these  two 
Territories,  and  my  judgment  is  that  admitting  Oklahoma  now.  and 
locating  the  state  capital,  and  the  penal  and  charitable  institutions, 
will  preclude  the  unity  of  the  two  Territories. 

Q.  How  general  is  the  opinion  to  which  you  have  given  expression  ? — 
A.  I  think  it  is  very  general,  outside  of  the  politicians  who  want  to 
become  Senators  and  governor. 

people's  interest  in  STATEHOOD. 

Q.  Have  you  in  mind  the  percentage? — A.  Well.  I  think  that  75 
per  cent  of  the  peoi)le  of  this  Territory,  if  you  would  go  to  them  and 
ask  them,  would  say  that  they  preferred  to  go  with  the  Indian  coun- 
try, and  that  they  are  not  anxious  for  statehood  now.  1  have  talked 
with  speakers  in  the  campaign,  when  they  would  come  l)ack  here,  and 
they  would  say,  "Why,  we  can  not  get  them  interested  in  the  state- 
hood question."  I  have  talked  with  people  on  the  question  of  voting 
for  Mr.  Maguire.     I  would  ask  them  why  they  voted  for  Maguire,  if 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  225 

it  was  on  the  statehood  proposition,  and  they  would  say,  '"No;  we 
think  he  is  the  best  num."  My  judg-ment  is  that  the  reason  many 
voted  for  him  was  because  he  came  here  early,  and  helped  dev(dop  the 
Territory,  and  knew  where  he  lived,  and  where  to  iind  him.  and  did 
not  know  where  the  other  man  lived  exactly.  Our  fellows  talk  about 
our  haying  a  very  large  population  in  Oklahoma,  and  wealth,  all  that 
sort  of  thing.     We  are  developed  now,  gentlemen, 

A    FARM    ON    EVERY    QUARTER   SECTION. 

We  have  got  a  farm  on  every  quarter  section,  nearly  every  quarter 
section  of  land  in  the  Territory.  All  the  additional  population  we  can 
get  in  the  Territory  now  above  what  we  have  got  has  got  to  come  from 
the  building  up  of  the  cities.  The  farmers  and  business  men  are  doing 
well,  and  they  do  not  need  statehood,  either.  The  United  States  Gov- 
ernment is  furnishing  us  judges,  paying  our  legislature,  and  our  peo- 
ple are  thoroughly  satistied  with  the  conditions  as  the}'  are  now. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not. 

T.  J.  Lowe  voluntarily  appeared  before  the  committee,  and  asking 
leave  to  make  a  statement  to  the  committee,  made  the  following  state- 
ment: 

AN    AGRICULTURAL    COUNTRY. 

Mr.  Lowe.  Outside  of  politics,  my  opinion  is  that  it  is  best  for  all 
parties  to  have  single  statehood,  as  this  Territory  alone  is  an  agricul- 
tural country  with  no  manufacturing  interests,  and  we  need  the  coal  in 
the  Indian  Territor}-  to  help  us  here,  and  one  State  would  have  juris- 
diction especially  of  the  rates  and  could  give  us  decent  coal  rates. 
Another  thing  is  that  our  taxes  now  are  about  8i  in  mnny  of  the 
counties,  and  we  are  not  able  to  get  into  statehood  at  this  time;  so  far 
as  I  am  personally  concerned  I  am  opposed  to  any  statehood  at  all  at 
the  present  time  for  these  reasons.  But  the  sentiment  of  the  people 
in  both  of  the  Territories  is  for  single  statehood.  Outside  of  the  poli- 
ticians who  want  to  become  governors  and  LTnited  States  Senators,  I 
think  the  feeling  is  that  we  are  opposed  to  statehood  at  all  at  the  present 
time. 

And  further  the  witness  saith  not, 

(Mr.  L.  G,  Edwards,  president  of  the  Conmiercial  Club  of  Norman, 
Okla,,  tiled  with  the  committee,  by  permission  of  the  committee,  a 
memorial  on  behalf  of  said  club,  wliich  appears  as  Exhibit  M,) 

And  here,  at  the  hour  of  3.30  p,  m,,  the  committee  adjourned  the 
hearing  of  testimon}'  relative  to  the  admission  to  statehood  of  the 
Territories  of  New  Mexico,  Arizona,  Oklahoma  and  the  Indian  Ter- 
ritory. 

H  s  B— -^15 


EXHIBIT  A. 

IN   THE    DISTRICT    COURT,    FOURTH    JUDICIAL    DISTRICT,    TERRITORY    OF 

NEW    MEXICO. 

The  followino-  is  a  list  of  the  Territorial  grand  and  petit  juries  who 
served  in  the  counties  comprising-  the  Fourth  judicial  district  for  the 
Territory  of  New  Mexico,  viz,  San  Miouel,  Colfax,  Union,  Mora, 
Guadalupe,  beginning-  with  the  fall  terms  of  court,  1900,  and  ending 
with  the  fall  terms  of  court,  1902: 


SAN    MIGUEL   COUNTY. 


List  of  grand  jurors,  Territorial  court,  November  term,  1900. 


W.  T.  Treverton. 
Jose  Leon  Madrid. 
Florencio  Esquibel. 
Emilio  Sanchez. 
Fermin  Maldanado. 
Candelario  Flores. 
Ambrosia  Madrid. 
Cecilio  Valverde. 
Calipetro  Gurule. 


Marcelino  Montoya. 
John  Hill. 
Pedro  Rivera. 
C.  St.  Allen. 
Engenio  Rudolph. 
Felix  Garcia. 
John  W.  Zollars. 
Jose  Abram  Salazar. 


List  of  petit  jurors,  Territorial  court,  November  term,  1900. 


Clemente  Angel. 
Juan  Blea. 

Juan  Martinez  y  Baca. 
Anastacio  Buston. 
Crestino  Garduno. 
Facundo  Montoya. 
A.  Gallegos. 
Jose  Romero. 
Manuel  Chavez. 
Lucrecio  Lucero. 
Anastacio  Quintana. 
Francisco  Garcia. 


Alejandro  Aregon. 
Rafael  Gallegos. 
Francisco  Narvaiz. 
Martin  Marquez. 
Dolores  Mares. 
Pedro  Roubal. 
Jose  E.  Apodaca. 
Donaciano  Otero. 
J.  Minium. 
Isidoro  V.  Gallegos. 
Jose  Lino  Rivera. 
Henrv  Neafus. 


IJst  of  grand  jurors,  Territorial  court,  May  term,  1901. 


Jefferson  Raynolds  (foreman). 

Macedonio  Montoya. 

Valerio  Baca. 

Sostenes  Delgado. 

Sixto  Arm i jo. 

Francisco  Ribera  y  Martinez. 

Gabriel  Chavez. 

F.  O.  Blood. 

Eligio  Gallegos. 

Seventeen  good  and  lawful  men,  taken  from  the  body  of  the  county  of  San  Miguel, 
etc. 

226 


Macario  M.  Lobato. 
Encarnacion  Gonzales. 
Damacio  Tafoya. 
Juan  Xemecio  Crespin. 
Luis  Gold. 
Pablo  A.  Sanchez. 
Ladisladio  Gallegos. 
M.  J.  Crowlev. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


227 


List  of  petit  jurors,  Territorial  ronrt,  Mai/  term,  1901. 

Faustin  Padilla. 

Nestor  Sanchez. 

Frutoso  Sena. 

Jose  G.  Alarcon. 

Antonio  Garcia  v  GallegOi?. 


Felipe  Montoya. 
Joiin  Dalton. 
Eugenio  Griego. 
David  Montoya. 
Fernando  Aleniond. 
Pedro  Garcia. 
Jose  Varela. 

Twenty-four  good  and  lawful  men, 
Miguel,  etc. 


Francisco  E.sjuibel. 
Felipe  Duran. 
Roman  Gallegos. 
Vicente  Martinez. 
Tranquilino  (^iarcia. 


Pablo  Vigil. 
Ricardo  Gomez. 
Jo.se  Rimirez. 
Juan  B.  Lucero. 
Manuel  Montoya. 
Jesus  (iuiterrez. 
I  Gabriel  Montoya. 

taken  from  the  bodv  of  the  countv 


of  San 


List  of  grand  i tiroes,  Territorial  court,  Noremfjer  term,  1901. 


Orecencio  Gallegos. 
Epifanio  Gonzales. 
Eleuterio  Griego. 
Ysidoro  V.  Gallegos. 
Martin  Varela. 
Manuel  A.  Sanchez. 
Eugenio  Valdez. 
B.  F.  Forsythe. 
Sigmund  Nahm. 


Leandro  Jaramillo. 
Octaviano  Sandoval. 
Jose  Lucero. 
Antonio  Griego. 
Luciano  ]Maes. 
Indelecio  Sena. 
Jose  Ygnacio  INIontoya. 
Marcelino  Sabedra. 


IJst  of  petit  jurors.  Territorial  court,  November  term,  1901. 


David  Urioste. 
Petrolono  Lucero. 
Romaldo  Trujillo. 
Abado  Garcia. 
Felix  Garcia. 
Juan  Esquibel. 
Francisco  Wallace. 
Eugenio  Gallegos. 
Atilano  F.  I'libarri. 
A.  H.  Whitmore. 
John  Shank. 
Jesus  Maria  Romero. 


Bias  Ortiz. 

Gumecindo  Ortiz. 

Prospero  Baca. 

Felipe  Rivera  y  Martinez. 

Juan  Jose  Salazar. 

Clemente  Segura. 

Jose  A.  Baca. 

Dario  Atencio. 

Jose  Felipe  B.  Montano. 

Lucrecio  Lucero. 

Manuel  A.  Ganzales  y  Lucero. 

Anderson  Brinkley  (colored). 

IJst  of  grand  jurors,  Territorial  court,  May  term,  1902. 

]\L  M.  McSchooler  (foreman).  i  Andres  Lopez. 

Cruz  Segura.  Luciano  ^Martinez. 
Delfino  Gallegos.  Daniel  Stern. 

Justo  Gonzales.  T.  B.  McXair. 
Eugenio  Gallegos.  Santiago  Wallace. 

Narcico  Duran.  Sabino  Lujan. 

Martin  Delgado.  Felipe  Medina. 

H.  P.  Brown.  t  Gregorio  Garcia. 

J.  B.  Mackel.  i 


List  of  petit  jarors.  Territorial  court,  Mag  term,  190~ 


Manuel  Tafoya. 
Dionicio  Romero. 
Filomeno  Cresi)in. 
Jesus  Serna. 
INIanuel  Rivera. 
Leandro  Ortega. 
Ciriaco  Griego. 
.Tuan  L  Gomez. 
Juan  Coriz. 
Demetrio  Garcia. 
Reyniundo  INIartinez. 
Felipe  Rivera. 


Felipe  Maes. 
Juan  Sandoval. 
Leandro  Villanueva. 
Monico  Anaya. 
Teofilo  Garcia. 
Manuel  Manzanares. 
Jose  Andres  IMontoya. 
Ramon  Trujillo. 
Felix  Garcia  y  (  aiiterrez. 
Marcos  Tafoya. 
Fabian  Gallegos. 
Trinidad  Sena. 


Grand  and  petit  jurors  for  November  term,  1902,  not  yet  impaneled. 


228 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


COLFAX  COrNTY. 


IJxt  of  (jraittl  jurors,  Territorial  court,  Mardi  ter)ii,  1900. 


II.  (i.  Frankenberger. 
Alf  Jelfs. 
Manuel  Valdez. 
George  W.  Warder. 
W.  J.  Parker. 
George  Beebe. 
Jolin  Baldwin. 
Edward  Brossard. 
Doniciano  Graham. 


J.  K.  Hunt  {foreman). 
J.  Y.  Fowler. 
Thomas  Floyd,  jr. 
Frank  Heming. 
W.  J.  Linwoitd. 
J.  A.  Carter. 
William  C.  Branuni. 
Isaac  L.  Brackett. 


Lial  of  petit  jurors,  Territorial  con rt,  March  term,  1900. 


AVade  Brackett. 
C.  F.  Burns. 
Ed  O.  Brown. 
(.Tabino  Bernal. 
J.  M.  Bell. 
W.  M.  dementi- 
W.  Edward. 
Jesus  Guiterrez. 
M.  A.  Lopez. 
David  Padilla. 
C.  W.  Eickard. 
(ieorge  W.  Ives. 


Peter  Larsen. 
Francisco  ^Medina. 
W.  L.  Johnson. 
Walter  INIcCloud. 
J.  C.  Orrin. 
Samuel  Rathlmn. 
Stephen  Wiseman. 
Fred  Nash. 
J.  F.  White.    ' 
Watson  Spencer. 
Charles  H.  Bell. 
Ciiarles  E.  Howell. 


Lid  of  (/rami  jurors,  Territorial  covrt,  Septouber  term,  1900. 


Harry  Brainard. 
Henry  Baruel. 
P.  P.  Fanning. 
J.  R.  Belisle.'^ 
Teodoro  Baca. 
Thomas  Clouser. 
Edward  Duff  v. 
C.  A.  Elles. 
Jo.se  A.  Espinosa. 


Edward  L.  Fugate. 

Severiano  Martinez. 

Andres  Fernandez. 

W.  D.  Kershner. 

Juan  Jose  Valdez. 

H.  C.  Jones. 

Meliton  Xarva. 

J.  Van  Houten  (foreman). 


List  of  petit  jurors,  Territorial  court,  Sejitemher  term,  1900. 


J.  J.  Covle. 
W.  L.  Brackett. 
F.  O.  Crocker. 
Thomas  English. 
M.  Keleherr 
J.  H.  Morgan. 
Harry  Musselwhite. 
Wm.  H.  Newton. 
Juan  Ortega. 
S.  H.  Rogers. 
Nestor  Padilla. 
Abe  Sever. 


Edward  Simons. 
Francisc(j  Trujillo. 
Alex.  Wersonick. 
J.  J.  Valdez. 
M.  Montoya. 
Matias  Mares. 
A.  D.  Coulter. 
Frank  Cloud. 
Pablo  ]\Iontoya. 
Isabel  Baca. 
John  W.  Crouse. 
Lacev  Everitt. 


List  of  grand  jurors,  Territorial  court,  March  term,  1901. 


Alden  Allen. 

J.  M.  Arellano. 

B.  M.  Blackwell. 

Fred  Born. 

Patrick  Bovle. 

J.  J.  Grifhii. 

James  L.  Livingston. 

W.  K.  Irwin. 

George  E.  Lyon  (foreman] 


Amador  Montoya. 
E.  R.  jNIanning. 
J.  R.  Vigil. 
Pedro  y  Santistevan. 

D.  Cassan. 

E.  \V.  Fulehum. 
Nat  Oldham. 
W.  F.  Degner. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


22'.) 


List  of  petit  jnrorH,  Territorial  court  ^  March  term,  1901. 


Michael  Cawley. 
Regin  Belisle. 
Herman  Fiinke. 
Robert  Love. 
J.  A.  Rash. 
John  Utton. 
J.  M.  Charetta. 
Perfecto  Madrid. 
James  Turner. 
Joe  T.  Jaikson. 
Salvador  Tafoya. 
Harry  Fry. 


Thomas  Goin. 
J.  A.  Gise. 
M.  B.  Hays. 
A.  G.  Johnson. 
J.  C.  Miller. 
Fred  Rohr. 
E.  J.  Love. 
P.  H.  Smith. 
Manuel  Vi<:il. 
Henry  Kruger. 
Isidoro  Baca. 
Manuel  Pai-heco. 


List  of  (/rand  j lira r.t,  Territorial  court,  September  term,  1901. 


David  G.  Dwyer  (foreman). 

Aubryn  Allison. 

Oscar  Trov. 

A.  C.  Prire. 

William  R.  Butler. 

J.  W.  p]shneur. 

Ventura  Gallegos. 

R.  W\  Maize. 

Manuel  Arellano. 


Geo.  "W.  (Tillispie. 
E.  R.  Fullenwider. 
W.  C.  Braiinin. 
J.  A.  Carter. 
M.  M.  Salazar. 
W.  J.  Linwood. 
A.  K.  Letton. 
L.  G.  Walsh. 


List  of  petit  jurorx,  Territorial  court,  Septemfx'r  ter)n,  1001. 


A.  L.  Bell. 
John  Graham. 
T.  G.  Gregory. 
Daniel  X.  Jackson. 
E.  A.  Littrell. 
AV.  F.  Ruffner. 
Walter  L.  Sever. 
James  A.  Black  well. 
R.  H.  Irwin. 
John  Burchitt. 
J.  W.  Turner. 
Marion  Uttrell. 


P.  J.  Delaney. 
L.  ]NL  Fleniiuij;. 
Charles  }\.  Howell. 
William  Hahh. 
Frank  Henning. 
Alfred  Jelfs. 
J.  A.  Kremis. 
W.  A.  Moore. 
J.  C.  Orrin. 
S.  H.  Reed. 
C.  D.  Stevens. 
C.  A.  Whitted. 


List  of  grand  jurors,  Territorial  court,  March,  term.,  1902. 


J.  P.  Brackett  (foreman) 
Elogio  Charette. 
Robert  Hern. 
R.  H.  Ayers. 
Perfecto  Cordova. 
Pedro  Chavez. 
Jesus  Guiterres. 
Thomas  Floyd,  jr. 
Jacob  Karlin. 


George  Littrell. 
George  E.  Beebe. 
Thomas  McBride. 
M.  Keenan. 
Meliton  Narvaiz. 
M.  R.  Mendelsohn. 
E.  T.  Officer. 
E.  C.  Sperrv. 


List  of  petit  jurors,  Territori'd,  court,  March  term,  1902. 


Victor  Montoya. 
Jose  Pena. 
C.  Ribera. 
M.  A.  Lopez. 
0.  P.  Pessman. 
Charles  Rohr. 
C.  T.  Stockton. 
G.  M.  Fetter. 
S.  C.  Gillispie. 
F.  C.  Peterson. 
J.  I.  Valdez. 
E.  O.  Brown. 


J.  M.  Bell. 
J.  E.  Fernandez. 
I.  L.  Brackett. 
J.  N.  Cook. 
William  Edwards. 
R.  Fitzgerrald. 
E.  L.  Fugate. 

E.  O.  Jones. 
Charles  Kline. 
John  Nason. 

F.  C.  Nash. 
Henrv  Schroeder. 


230 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


L(.s7  of  (P'and  juror.%  Trrrltorlul  miirt,  Se pi  ember  term,  1903. 


Thomas  English. 

Agapito  Duran. 

P.  P.  Fanning. 

H.  C.  Jones. 

G.  I^.  Lyon  (foreman). 

J,  C.  Lucero. 

Benito  Mares. 

Rich  Oldham. 

P.  Y.  Santistevan. 


S.  C.  Sproule. 
Manuel  Valdez. 
Edgar  W.  Fulghrum. 
A.  R.  Stricher. 
William  F.  Degner. 
John  W.  Grouse. 
J.  F.  White. 
S.  B.  McRoberts. 


LiM  of  petll  jurors,  Terrltorinl  court,  Septemher  term,  1902. 


J.  B.  Bidwell. 
Fred  Born. 
Patrick  Berry,  jr. 
Fred  Breugserman. 
J.  M.  Bel  isle. 
Thomas  Glauser. 
J.  F.  Gordova. 
F.  Dickman. 
J.  J.  Griffin. 
Matt  Heck. 
Allen  Hal  las. 
J.  J.  Little. 


Alex.  Wersonick. 
S.  A.  Weisman. 
A.  D.  Goulter. 
C.  A.  Eariskson. 
Harry  M.  Fry. 
M.  D.  Havs. 
Fred  Rohr. 
G.  W.  SiuTiock. 
Gharles  Vight. 
Frank  Braunin. 
G.  H.  Bell. 
Fred  Mullen. 


UNION    COUNTY. 


Lid  of  grand  jurors.  Territorial  court,  Scpteviher  term,  1900. 


Jose  de  la  Luz  Garcia. 
H.  Bramlett. 
S.  N.  Mitchell. 
Thomas  P.  James. 
Juan  Martinez. 
Antonio  [Mascaraneas. 
J.  F.  Brown. 
Alejandro  Guiterrez. 


I.  J.  Morgan. 
Frank  Rankin. 
G.  W.  Davis. 
Jose  Dominguez. 
Pitacio  Montoya. 
Rumaldo  Martinez. 
Santiago  Padilla. 
Mateo  Lujan  ( foreman) , 


lAst  of  petit  jurors,  Territorial  court,  September  term,  1900. 


R.  H.  Gouley. 
A.  G.  Thompson. 
Howell  Earnest. 
G.  W.  Pawley. 
J.  Meagher. 
Teodore  Bangeter. 
Francisco  Miera. 
Valentine  Martinez. 
Tranquilino  Garcia. 
Miguel  Romero. 
Donaciano  Vigil. 
T.  E.  ]*Iitchell. 


Feliciano  Molina. 

Cristobal  Garcia. 

Candido  Garcia. 

Antcmio  ^Nlaria  Sanchez  y  Ortiz. 

Manuel  Fuentes. 

Manuel  Gallegos. 

Epiminio  Sanchez. 

German  Garcia. 

Juan  de  Dios  ^Martinez. 

Leandro  ^lartinez. 

Manuel  Encinias. 

Julian  Padilla. 


List  of  grand  jurors,  Territorial  court,  March  term,  1901. 


Carl  Eklund  (foreman). 
F.  H.  Alexander. 
Francisco  Garcia. 
Teofllo  Rael. 
Carl  Gilg. 
Agustin  Vigil. 
Dan  Tavlor. 
P.  L.  Pinard. 
Jose  Apodaca. 


Jose  Manuel  (ionzales. 
Mateo  Arguello. 
Demetrio  Cordova. 
Lonjino  Esquibel. 
E.  Fawcett. 
Alonzo  Padilla. 
Andres  (iarcia. 
J.  S.  Holland. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


231 


Li.ff  of  petit  jnror)^,  Territorial  court,  March  term,  1901. 


Harrv  C.  Thompson. 
William  :\IcCa8h. 
Henry  J.  Collins. 
Francisco  Lucero. 
Saturnino  Pinard. 
Matias  Casados. 
Francisco  Uliberri. 
Preciliano  Garcia. 
Marcelino  Cordova. 
Filil)erto  Gallegos. 
Rumaldo  Fuentes. 
Leocadio  Vigil. 


Nestor  Marquez. 
James  K.  L.  Johnson. 
Juan  Jose  Garcia. 
H.  M.  Foster. 
Elias  Bernal. 
Leandro  G.  Gallegos. 
John  Spring. 
F.  A.  Mestas. 
W.  A.  Miller. 
J.  S.  Jarrell. 
George  B.  Gold. 
L.  E.  Herron. 


Lint  of  grand  jurors,  Territorial  court,  September  term,  1901. 


Robert  P.  Ervien  (foreman^ 
Jose  Cordova. 
Pedro  ^Martinez. 
Samuel  Collins. 
Jose  P.  Blea. 
Epifanio  A.  Gallegos. 
Alex.  McKenzie. 
Manuel  Martinez. 
Lino  Garcia. 


Telesfor  C.  de  Baca. 
Lucas  E.  Gallegos. 
S.  M.  Doran. 
Philip  Denitz. 
J.  W.  Evens. 
James  Goode. 
Tom  A.  Gray. 
Prudencio  Ortega. 


List  of  petit  jurors.  Territorial  court,  September  term,  1901. 


Benito  Coi'dova. 
William  Forester. 
Augustin  Sanchez. 
Reyes  P.  Martinez. 
Francisco  A.  Gallegos. 
Joseph  Doherty.    . 
Jose  D.  L.  Baca. 
Delfino  S.  Quintana. 
Jose  L.  ^Martinez. 
Enearnacion  Lucero. 
Procopio  Montoya. 
Jose  Hilario  Sancoval. 


Felix  Castillo. 
Santiago  Ortiz. 
Ricardo  Casaus. 
Telesfor  Casaus. 
Oscar  Bell. 
Victor  Sisneros. 
J.  Prosper  Stuyvesant. 
John  King. 
Pablo  Gallegos. 
J.  C.  Martinez. 
W.  T.  Thatcher. 
Matt.  Emery. 


List  of  grand  jurors,  Territorial  court,  Mcnrh  term,  1902. 


Christian  Otto  (foreman). 
Roy  W.  Lackey. 
Trinidad  Guana. 
Frank  Law. 
J.  J.  Chavez. 
Hipolito  Garcia. 
Charles  Callis. 
J.  D.  Casados. 
Pedro  Miera. 


Julian  Cadilla. 
Luis  Sanchez. 
Nepomeceno  Martinez. 
Alberto  Sanchez. 
Sam  Taylor. 
Jose  Dominguez. 
E.  H.  Pricer 
Emiterio  Gallegos. 


X/.sf  of  j)ctit  jurors.  Territorial  ccmvt,  September  term,  1902. 


W.  E.  McCash  (foreman). 
Fernando  Garcia. 
Samuel  T.  Home. 
John  Spring. 
William  S.  Potter. 
Juan  Rael. 
Eusebio  Padilla. 
Charles  J.  H.  Bnshnell. 
J.  S.  Holland. 


Nicolas  Vigil. 
Rumaldo  Fuentes. 
Filiberto  Gallegos. 
Leocadio  Vigil. 
George  Pawley. 
Abel  Martinez. 
Saturnino  Pinard. 
Juan  ]\L  c  de  Baca. 


232 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Lixl  of  petit  jurors,  Territorial  court,  September  term,  1902. 


Richard  Pierce. 
Charles  W.  Sandford. 
Herinau  Hilticrs. 
WiUiain  J3ont/. 
James  W.  Wiggins. 
D.  V.  Padilla. 
David  Cardenas. 
Antonio  Miera. 
Santiago  Padilla. 
Albino  Roybal. 
Marcelino  Cordova. 
Francisco  L.  Vigil. 


Albino  Medina. 
Manuel  Chacon. 
Loginio  Esuuibel. 
Epemenio  Sanchez. 
Elogio  Lovato. 
Jose  A.  Crane. 
H.  C.  Thompson. 
]\hinael  1).  J.  Mascaranes. 
W.  N.  Pasham. 
Jose  de  la  J^nz  Garcia. 
George  Gold. 
L.  E.  Herren. 


MORA   COUNTY. 


List  of  grand  jurors,  Territorial  court,  October  term,  1900. 

Juan  OHvas. 
Manuel  M.  Martinez. 
Marcelo  Montova. 


Jose  Demetrio  Medina  (foreman 

Faustin  Leyba. 

Miguel  Kucero. 

Juan  Lujan. 

Doroteo  Vigil. 

Felipe  Basquez. 

Engenio  Esquibel. 

Juan  Romero. 

Luciano  de  Herrera. 


(jeorge  Berg. 
David  Armijo. 
Dionicio  Sisneros. 
Pedro  Gonzales. 
Jose  G.  Gallegos. 


List  of  petit  jurors.  Territorial  court,  October  term,  1900. 


Julian  Duran. 
Pedro  Padilla. 
Pablo  Solano. 
Juan  Cristobal  Martinez. 
Juan  Rivera. 
Leandro  Martinez. 
Antonio  Velasquez. 
Pedro  Garcia. 
Manuel  Mora. 
Julian  Gallegos. 
Ignacio  Mestas. 
Manuel  Torres. 


Jesus  Maria  Salazar  y  Santistevan. 

Jesus  Espinosa. 

Carmen  Sandoval. 

Cornelio  Arguello. 

Alejandro  Mares. 

Juan  Jose  Garcia. 

Daniel  Espinosa. 

Hijinio  ^lartinez. 

Jesus  Maria  Valdez. 

Tomas  Padilla. 

Quirnia  Abeyta. 

Albino  Cordova. 


There  was  no  session  of  court  held  in  ^Nlora  County  in  April,  1901,  owing  to  lack  of 
money  in  court  fund. 


Juan  Navarro  (foreman 
Rafael  Romero  y  Lopez 
Jose  Vibian  Fresquez. 
Anastacio  Garcia,  jr. 
Andres  Gandert. 
Engenio  Lobato. 
Miguel  Espinosa. 
Jose  Brazil. 
Manuel  Valerio. 


List  of  grand  jierors,  Territorial  court,  October  term,  1901. 

Jose  ]Maria  Perwa. 
Antonio  Romero. 
Pablo  Duran. 


Isidor  INIontoya. 
Antonio  Sanchez. 
Juan  Prando. 
Andres  ^lartinez. 
Guadalupe  Garcia 


Sanchez. 


List  of  petit  jurors,  Terr  it  oricd  court,  October  terni,  1901. 


Pantaleon  Olguin. 
Fidal  Duran. 
Donaciano  Sanchez. 
Antonio  S.  Trujillo. 
Agapito  ^Martinez. 
Ramos  Barros. 
Juan  de  los  Reyes  Montoya. 
Juan  Jose  Quintana. 
Juan  C.  Quintana. 
Felipe  Barreras. 
Ignacio  Maes. 
Damacio  Chavez. 


Jose  Maria  Martinez. 
Cesario  Guana. 
Pedro  Antonio  Montoya. 
Laureano  Bernal. 
Juan  Manuel  Sisneros. 
Juan  de  Jesus  Sandoval. 
Lucas  Mestas. 
Alejandro  Mares. 
John  Spinner. 
Jose  Gregorio  Leyva. 
Jose  Marino  Gonzales. 
Jose  Encarnacion  Aragon. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    JilLL. 


233 


f,int  of  grand  jurors,  Territorial  court,  April  term,  1902. 


Tito  ]\Ielin(les  (t'oreinan). 

Francisco  Martinez  y  Lncero. 

Nicolas  Martinez. 

Nicolas  ^Martinez. 

Gavino  Rivera. 

Daniel  Medina. 

Rafael  (^uintana. 

Jnan  Rfxlriguez. 

Sal)ino  Rodriguez. 


Pedro  Pad  ill  a. 
'Cornelii)  .\rguello. 
Julian  Duran. 
Rutilio  Luceid. 
Juan  I>.  IMea. 
Saul  Padiila. 
Manuel  Medina. 
Apolonio  Cas^ados. 


List  of  prt it  jurors,  Territorial  court,  April  term,  l[i02. 


Rosendo  Vialpando. 
Pedro  Salazar. 
Ramon  Frezquez. 
Felipe  Vasquez. 
Jose  de  la  Cruz  Romero. 
Pedro  Auto  Fernandez. 
Loginio  Duran. 
Anastacio  ^lartinez. 
Apolonio  de  Herrera. 
Rafael  de  Herrera. 
Fernando  Esquibel. 
Fernando  Esquibel. 
Pedro  Huatado. 


Charles  Weber. 

Andres  Varos. 

Jesus  ^laria  Romero  y  Sanchez. 

Victor  Gallegos. 

Manuel  Velasquez. 

\'idal  C.  Martinez. 

Juan  B.  Ortega. 

Pablo  Abeytia,  jr. 

Jose  Dolores  Garcia  y  Sanchez. 

Jose  Valdez. 

Antonio  ^Martinez  y  Pacheco. 

Antonio  ^lartinez  y  Pacheco. 

Jose  Ortiz. 


No  term  of  the  district  court  was  held  in  Mora  County  during  the  month  of  Octo- 
ber, 1902. 

GUADALUPE    COUNTY. 


List  of  grand  jurors.  Territorial  court,  June  term,  1900. 


Charles  Sumner  (foreman). 
Dario  Luna. 
Benito  Nelson. 
Mauericio  Ortiz. 
Jose  E.  (Tonzales. 
Isaac  Sandoval. 
Estolano  Ortega. 
Cipriano  Flores. 
Simon  Sena. 


Luis  Gonzales. 
Fernando  Aregon. 
Sostenos  Romero. 
P.  R.  Page. 
Manuel  E.  ^lorales. 
Monico  Madrid. 
Mariano  Samora. 
Roman  Dodge. 


List  of  jtetit  jurors.  Territorial  court,  June  term,  1900. 


Antonio  J.  Aguilar. 
W.  B.  Giddings. 
•Reymundo  Harrison. 
Bonifacio  Lopez. 
Jose  Pablo  JNIartinez. 
Esquibel  Cordova. 
Juan  L.  Sanchez. 
Santiago  Uliberri. 
Feliciano  Aragon. 
David  Crespin. 
Cecilio  Castillo. 
Ricardo  Chavez. 


Liborio  T^ncero. 
Florencio  (iarcia. 
Pedro  Lucero. 
Perfecto  Baca. 
Gregorio  Sanchez. 
Jose  Sanchez  y  Baca. 
Daniel  Sanchez. 
Toribio  Florez. 
INIanuel  Perea. 
Jose  Samora. 
Elifigo  Campus. 
Ascencion  Padiila. 


234  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

The  next  term  of  court  held  in  the  county  of  (iuadahipe  was  commenced  on  the 
14th  day  of  October,  1901.     The  grand  and  petit  jurors  at  that  term  were  as  follows: 

Grand  jurors. 

L.  F.  Churchhill  (foreman).  I  Solomon  Sanchez. 
Antonio  Jose  Aguilar.  Manuel  I'rioste. 

Paco  Baca.  Salome  .Martinez. 

Santiago  Giddings.  Roman  Dodge. 

Powers  Gillispie.  j  Mariano  Zamora. 
L.  N.  Le  Testu.  Narciso  Saiz. 

W.  R.  Lott.  I  Jose  Sanchez  y  Baca. 

Francisco  Padilla.  I  Martin  Barreras. 

Jose  Pablo  Sandoval.  I 

Petit  jurors,  Guadalupe  Couutij,  Odoher  term,  1901. 

Marcedou  Chavez.  Claro  :Mestas. 

Matilde  Chavez.  Estolano  (.)rtega. 

Jose  Chavez  y  Garcia.  i  Ramon  Campos. 
Damacio  Gonzales.  Roman  Casaus. 

Dario  Luna.  Bernebe  Gallegos. 

Bonafacio  Lopez.  Felipe  Sanchez  y  Baca. 

Roman  Labadie.  l  Victoriano  Chavez. 

Nicolas  Madril.  |  Anastacio  Rael  y  Aranda. 
Hilario  INLirtinez.  Fernando  Aragon. 

Roman  Padilla.  i  Espiridion  Abeyta. 

L.  M.  Shely.  ;  Toribio  Flores. 

Pedro  Via".  I  Severiano  Griego. 

No  term  of  the  district  court  has  been  held  in  Gaudalupe  County  since  October, 
1901,  owing  to  a  lack  of  funds. 

The  following  contains  a  list  of  criminal  accusations  or  indictments 
returned  1)V  the  o-nmd  juries  of  the  various  counties  comprising  the 
fourth  judicial  district,  from  the  fall  terms  of  court  in  the  year  1900 
to  the  fall  terms  of  court  in  the  year  1902,  ujaking  practically  a  period 
of  two  years: 

SAN    MIGUEL    COUNTY. 

November  term,  1900. 

Territorv  of  New  Mexico  r.  Francisco  Mora,  larceny;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  '•. 
Albino  Sandoval,  larceny;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Dario  Salazar,  assault  on  wife; 
Territorv  of  New  Mexico  v.  Calvin  ^Mortimer,  larceny;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r. 
Mariano"  Salazar,  murder;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Desiderio  Padilla,  carry  deadly 
weapons;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  James  Johnson,  obtaining  money  on  false  check; 
Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Manuel  Sena,  larceny  of  horse;  Territory  of  New  Mexico 
V.  Romaldo  Fernandez,  assault  and  l)attery  with  intent  to  kill;  Territoiy  of  New 
Mexico  r.  Noverto  Gonzales,  assault  and  battery;  Territory  of  New  ^Mexico  r.  Rey- 
mundo  Nieto,  assault  with  deadly  weapon;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Juan  de  los 
Reyes  Castillo,  muider;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Calvin  3Iortimer,  contempt  of 
court;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Warrick  M.  Johnson,  alias  Maverick  Johnson,  and 
Simon  Garcia,  criminal  complaint. 

Mail  '^'■'».  1901. 

Territorv  of  New  Mexico  c.  Reducindo  Benevides,  larceny  from  shop  or  ware- 
house; Territorv  of  New  ]Mexico  v.  Reducinda  Benevidez,  burglary;  Territory  of  New 
Mexico  r.  R.  T.  Montrose,  obtaining  money  on  forged  check;  Territory  of  New  Mexico 
V.  Marcos  Montova,  a^^sault  with  intent  to"  murder;  Territory  of  New  ^Mexico  t\  John 
Duffv  (colored), 'assault  with  intent  to  murder;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  William 
Kilev,  larceny;  Territorv  of  New  Mexico  v.  Ignacio  Baca,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory 
of  New  ]\Iexico  r.  Cenon  Maes,  larceny  of  swine;  Territory  of  New  :Mexico  v.  Jose 
Salas,  larcenv  of  cattle;  Territorv  of  New  Mexico  r.  Simon  Garcia,  larceny  of  cattle; 
Territorv  of  "New  Mexico  v.  Simon  Garcia  and  Jose  Salas,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory 
of  New "  Mexico  v.  C.  A.  Long,  Ales.  Kauffman,  Barney  Gulkey,  Fred  Dexter,  Dan 


NEW  statp:h()()D  bill.  235 

Bnyik-r,  bivukiuii:  neul  on  car;  Territory  of  New  Mexiecj  /■.  C  A.  Long  et  al.,  entering 
railroacl  car;  Territory  of  New  IVIexico  r.  Less  Scarborough,  James  Hanson,  and  Karl 
Crigler,  breaking  seal  on  car;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Lee  Scarborough,  James 
Hanson,  and  Earl  Crigler,  entering  railroad  car;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  /•.  Earl 
Crigler,  entering  railroad  car;  Territory  of  Ne^v  Mexico  r.  Earl  Crigler,  breaking  seal 
on  car;  Territory  of  New  jNIexico  r.  Alex  Kauffman,  entering  railroad  car;  Territory 
of  New  Mexicfj  r.  Alex  Kauffman,  breaking  seal  on  car;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  '■. 
James  Hanson,  entering  railroad  car;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  /•.  James  Hanson, 
breaking  seal  on  railroad  car;  Territoi'y  of  New  Mexico  r.  Dan  Snyder,  entering  rail- 
road car;  Teri'itory  of  New  ^Mexico  r.  Dan  Snyder,  l)reaking  seal  on  car;  Territory  of 
New  Mexico  v.  Fred  Dexter,  entering  railroad  car;  Territory  of  New  3Iexico  r.  Fred 
Dexter,  breaking  seal  on  car;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Barney  Gulkey,  entering 
railroad  car;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  fearney  Gulkey,  Invaking  seal  on  car;  Territory 
of  New  ^Mexico  /•.  C.  A.  Long,  entering  railroa<l  car;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  C.  A. 
Long,  breaking  seal  on  car;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Lee  Scaraborough,  entering 
railroad  car;  Territory  of  New  JVIexico  v.  Lee  Scaraborough,  breaking  seal  on  car; 
Territory  of  New  ^Mexico  r.  AV.  P.  Eddington,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  of  New 
Mexico  '■.  W.  P.  Eddington,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  of  New  ^lexico  /•.  Warrick 
M.  Johnson,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  AVarrick  31.  Johnson,  lar- 
ceny of  cattle;  Territory  of  New  ]Mexico  r.  Simon  Garcia,  murder;  Territory  of  New 
Mexico  r.  Simon  Garcia  and  Warrick  M.  Johnson,  murder;  Territory  of  New  Mexico 
r.  Romaldo  A'arela,  Roman  Varela,  and  Francisco  Varela,  nmrder;  Territory  of  New 
Mexico  I'.  Maxmiliano  Aliller,  otherwise  called  "  Maxmiliano  Martinez,"  larceny  of 
cattle;  Territory  of  New  Alexico  r.  Charles  Allen,  assault  with  intent  to  murder; 
Territory  of  New  Mexico  i'.  Eligio  Gonzales,  nmrder;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r. 
Juan  Maetinex,  assault  with  deadly  weapon;  Territory  of  New  ]\Iexico  '.  Salamon  C. 
Garcia,  ol)taining  money  by  false  and  bogus  check;  Territory  of  New  iSlexico  r. 
William  Gregg,  drawing  deadly  weapon;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Vicente  Romero, 
assault  on  wife. 

XoreinJier  term,  1901. 

Territory  of  New  Alexico  r.  George  Sanders,  larceny  of  horse;  Territory  of  New 
Mexico  r.  Jose  Clemente  Sandoval,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r. 
Reymundo  Nieto,  assault  to  murder;  Territor}-  of  New  ]Mexico  v.  Mauricio  Chavez, 
larceny  of  horse;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Antonio  Castillo,  assault  with  deadly 
weapon;  Territory  of  New  Alexico  v.  George  M.  Lewis,  assault  with  deadly  wea]ion; 
Territory  of  New  Mexico  /•.  Andres  Sena,  jr.,  carrying  deadh'  wea]:)ons;  Territory  of 
New  Mexico  r.  Donaciano  Barros,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  of  New  INIexit-o  /■. 
William  P.  Eddington,  perjury;  Territory  of  New  ^Mexico  r.  Sadie  Ransom,  larceny 
from  person;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Frank  J.  Gehring,  buying  stolen  property; 
Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Palmer  Wimber,  stealing  car  attachments;  Territory  of 
New  Mexico  r.  Elmer  Wimber,  larceny;  Territory  of  New  INIexico  r.  Portirio  Trujillo, 
larceny  of  horse;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  c.  Pedro  Casaus,  murder;  Territoi-y  of 
New  Mexico  v.  JCleuterio  Alartinez,  obtaining  money  by  false  pretenses;  Territory  of 
New  Mexico  r.  RujUM-to  Monto.\-a,  appeal;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  jMontgomery 
Bell,  appeal. 

M(iy  term,  1902. 

Territory  of  New  ^Mexico  v.  Damacio  Tafoya,  ap])eal ;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r. 
G.  N.  Walker,  criminal  coniplaint — murder;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Cosme 
Sanchez,  appeal;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Indelecio  Sena,  murder;  Territory  of 
New  Mexico  r.  James  T.  Eakin,  Louis  Fonville,  T.  D.  Burdick,  complaint — murder: 
Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Jose  Clemente  Sandoval,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  of 
New  Mexico  v.  Atanacio  Casados,  unla^\•fully  ])urchasing  cattle;  Territory  of  New 
Mexico  r.  Juan  Baca,  larceny  of  cattle;  Teiritory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Jnan  Baca,  unlaw- 
fully selling  cattle;  Territory  of  New  ^Mexico  r.  Clemente  Lucero,  larceny  of  cattle; 
Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Clemente  Lucero,  unlawfully  selling  cattle;  Territory  of 
New  Mexico  r.  Fi-ancisco  Trujillo,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r. 
Francisco  Trujillo,  unlawfully  selling  cattle;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  /'.  Francisco 
Trujillo,  Clemente  Lucero,  Juan  Baca,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r. 
Francisco  Trujillo,  CUemente  Lucero,  Juan  Baca,  unlawfully  selling  cattle;  Territory 
of  New  Mexii'o  /'.  Alauricio  Chavez,  larceny  of  a  horse;  Territory  of  New  ]\Iexico  '■. 
Simon  Weiner,  concealing  stolen  property;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Adolph 
Weiser,  Simon  Weiner,  Nissin  Alenase,  larceny  from  store;  Territory  of  New  Mexico 
V.  Nissin  ]\Ienase,  larceny;  Territory  of  New  ^Mexico  r.  Nissin  Menase,  receiving  stolen 
property;  Territory  of  New  Alexico  r.  Santiago  Alartinez,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory 
of  New  Mexico  r.  Jose  ^lartinez,  larceny  of  sheep;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Isidro 


236  NEW  statp:ho()d  bill. 

Solano,  assault  on  wile;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Donaeiano  Barros,  larceny  of 
sheep;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Jacinto  Garcia,  larceny  from  store;  Territory  of 
New  Mexico  r.  Tonias  Armijo,  larceny;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  /'.  A.  Thompson, 
larceny  of  horse;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  ]\Ierejil<l<>  Baca,  discharging  pistol  in 
settlement;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Jose  Ramon  Trujillo,  discharging  pistol  m 
saloon;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Jose  Ramon  Trnjillo,  assault  with  deadly  weapon; 
Territory  of  New  ^Mexico  r.  Seralin  Baca,  unlawfully  selling  cattle;  Territory  of  New^ 
Mexico  r.  Antonio  Castillo,  embezzling  sheep;  Territory  of  New  ^Mexico  v.  Fred- 
erick A.  Hummel,  murder;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Tomas  C'hancellor,  assault 
with  intent  to  murder;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Elmer  Galvin  and  Charles  Rivers, 
burglary;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Elmer  Calvin,  burglary;  Territory  r.  Charles 
Rivers,  burglary;  Territory  v.  J.C.  Minimum,  selling  liquor  without  license;  Territory 
/'.  Atanacio  Casados,  unlawfully  purchasing  cattle;  Territory  r.  Pedro  Peclia,  assault 
and  ))attery;  Territory  r.  Guaclalupe  Grtiz,  murder;  Territory  v.  Agapito  Jaramillo, 
ai^peal;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Manuelita  Salazar,  appeal. 

colfax  county. 

List  of  Ixdictmexts  Retltrxed  by  the  Grand  Juries  of  Colfax  County  from 
THE  September  Term,  1900,  up  to  and  Including  the  September  Term,  1902. 

September  term,  1900. 

Territory  r.  Mendo  Rodriguez,  murder;  Territory  r.  E.  J.  IIul)liard,  appeal;  Ter- 
ritory V.  Thomas  Thompson,  appeal;  Territory  r.  Mendo  Rodriguez,  murder;  Terri- 
tory ('.  Lucien  N.  Fewell  (Pistol  Johnnie),  assault  with  intent  to  murder;  Territory  v. 
Raymond  Stewart,  burglary;  Territory  r.  ]Maria  Buena,  appeal;  Territory  v.  Joseph 
F.  Jamison  and  Volney  F.  Jamison,  unlawfully  killing  cattle;  Territory  v.  J.  F. 
Jamison  and  V.  F.  Jamison,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  v.  Walter  Hartley,  assault 
with  intent  to  maim;  Territory  v.  Abram  Mondragon,  murder;  Territory  v.  Miguel 
Archuletta,  unlawfully  carrying  arms;  Territory  r.  Walter  Hartley,  highway  robbery; 
Territory'  /■.  Abram  Mondragon,  assault  with  intent  tonmrder;  Territory  v.  Robert  E. 
Lee,  Charles  Rohr,  Jacob  Schuelmeister,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  v.  Robert  E. 
Lee  and  Jacob  Schuelmeister,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  r.  Arthur  E.  Huyck,  unlaw'- 
fully  permitting  prisoner  to  escape;  Teri-itory  v.  Charles  E.  Peterson,  unlawfully  car- 
rying arms;  Territory  v.  Frank  il.  Hubbard,  larceny  of  horses;  Territory  v.  Alexis  R. 
Hubbard,  jr.,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  ?'.  William  Boehner,  larceny  of  cattle;  Ter- 
ritory of  New  ilexico  v.  Herman  Chevez,  larceny  of  a  horse;  Territory  of  New  Mexico 
V.  Felix  Gonzales,  unlawfully  discharging  a  pistol;  Territory  v.  C.  F.  Colcord,  obtain- 
ing propei'ty  by  false  pretenses;  Territory  v.  Charles  Allison,  assault  with  intent  to 
rape;  Territory  v.  Jesus  Duarte,  threatening  with  deadly  weapon. 

Mdvrh  term,  1901. 

Territory  of  New  Mexico  r.  Luis  ^Martinez,  highwi^y  robbery;  Territory  v.  Joseph 
Weston,  assault  with  intent  to  murder;  Territory  r.  William  Robinson,  assault 
with  intent  to  murder;  Territory  r.  Severiano  Gonzales,  unlawfully  carrying  arms; 
Territory  of  New  ^Mexico  l-.  Daniel  Garza,  murder;  Territory  of  New  Mexico  v.  Joseph 
Medlock,  murder;  Territory  r.  Joseph  F.  Jamison,  ^'olney  F.  Jamison,  larceny  of 
cattle;  Territory  v.  Joseph  F.  Jamison,  Volney  F.  Jamison,  unlawfully  killing  cattle; 
Territory  v.  Thomas  O'Neill,  unlawfully  carrying  arms;  Territory  v.  Pearline 
Cheatham,  alias  Mrs.  M.  P.  Cheatham,  alias  Pearline  Goss,  arson;  Territory  v. 
Pearline  Cheatham,  alias  Pearline  (ioss,  alias  Mrs.  ]M.  P.  Cheatham,  arson;  Territory 
r.  Emma  Mussehvhite,  arson;  Territory  r.  Pearline  Cheatham,  alias  Mrs.  M.  P. 
Cheatham,  alias  Pearline  Goss,  and  Emma  ]\Iusselwhite,  arson;  Territory  v.  A.  S. 
Stewart,  assault  with  intent  to  murder;  Territory  v.  Harry  Ruffner,  assault  with 
intent  to  murder;  Territory  v.  W^illiam  M.  Johnson,  assault  with  intent  to  rob. 

September  term,  1901. 

Territory  r.  (luy  Wolf,  larceny;  Territory  v.  Napoleon  Canton,  forgery;  Territory 
V.  J.  Fidel  ^Martinez,  assault  to  murder;  Territory  v.  Charles  Luppy,  unlawfully 
flourishing  pistol;  Territory  v.  Laura  Pierce,  assault  and  battery;  Territory  r.  Salo- 
mon C.  (Tarcia,  forgery;  Territory  r.  Daniel  Garza,  nmrder;  Territoi-y  r.  V.  L.  Pizel, 
appeal;  Territory  r.  Fred  Julius,  larceny;  Territory  /'.  Miguel  Archuletta,  unlawfully 
flourishing  pistol;  Territory  r.  Nepomeseno  Me(Una,  unlawfully  flonrishing  pistol; 
Territory  r.  Mii-hael  Leahy,  larceny;  Territory  c.  Fred  Julius,  larceny;  Territory  v. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  237 

Alexis  R.  L.  llubhard,  laiTeiiy  of  horse;  Territory  r.  Imiuuiiu'I  Viiiil,  vioiatiuj,' elec- 
tion laws;  Territorry  v.  Jose' Roibal,  violatino-  election  laws;  Territory  v.  James 
Mackie,  violatiii";  election  laws;  Territory  v.  Kiiuumel  Vi^jil,  Jose  Roihal,  James 
Mackie,  violatinij  election  laws;  Territory  /'.  Robert  Mitchell  (colored),  violating 
election  laws. 

Miircli  term,  1U02. 

Territory  r.  AVatkins  Jones,  violating  election  law;  Territory  r.  Melvin  AV.  ;\Iills, 
unlawfully  selling  merchandise;  Territory  r.  Watkins  Jones,  violating  election  law; 
Territory"?'.  Emanuel  Vigil,  violating  election  law;  Territory  r.  Emanuel  Vigil,  Jose 
Roibal,  James  JNIackie,  violating  election  law;  Territory  of  New  ^Mexico  r.  Robert 
Love,  murder;  Territory  c.  Robert  Mitchell,  violating  election  law;  Territory  v. 
William  Allen  and  Jesse  Stuart,  burglary;  Territory  r.  Thomas  Wolly,  alias  Thomas 
Willoughbv  (colored),  murder;  Territory  /•.  Ed.  Sla'ughter,  assault  to  do  great  bodily 
injury;  Territory  v.  (ieorge  Kascukatis,  assault  to  nuu'der;  Territory  v.  Ward  \< . 
^Nlurphey,  forgery;  Territory  i\  J.  E.  Slaughter,  assault  to  connnit  great  bodily  injury; 
Territory  v.  Joseph  Corredo,  unlawfully  discharging  jjistol;  Territory  v.  Joseph  Cor- 
redo,  unlawfullv  carrying  arms;  Territory  v.  Ward  W.  Murphey,  forgery;  Territory 
r.  George  Carter  and  George  Ilillei's,  burglary;  Territory  r.  Alexis  R.  Hubbard,  jr., 
larceny;  Territory  v.  Juan  Nuanez,  assault  to  connnit  great  bodily  injury;  Terri- 
tory w.'Lacey  Everett,  rape;  Territory  ?■.  Lacey  Everett,  sodomy;  Territory  r.  John 
Boardman,  alias  Jack  Boardman,  assault  with  deadly  weapon;  Territory  r.  John 
Braithwaite,  assault  with  deadly  weapon;  Territory  r.  Pearline  Cheatham,  alias 
Pearline  Goss.  obtaining  goods  under  false  pretenses;  Territory  v.  Emanuel  Vigil, 
Jose  Roibal,  James  Mckie,  violating  election  law;  Territory  r.  Andrew  Morton,  ]>er- 
jurv;  Territory?'.  Bias  Trujillo,  larceny;  Territory  v.  Louis  Miller,  larceny;  Territory 
■V.  Louis  Miller,  larceny;  Territory  v.  Louis  Miller,  larceny;  Territory  v.  Lacey 
Everett,  sodomy;  Territory  r.  Lacey  Everett,  sodomy;  Territory  v.  Lacey  Everett, 
rape. 

September  term,  1902. 

Territory  r.  Walter  Wade,  murder;  Territory  v.  John  Wallace,  abduction;  Territory 
V.  John  Wallace,  assault  with  pistol;  Territory  v.  John  Wallace,  assault  with  intent 
to  murder;  Territory  v.  John  Wallace,  assault  with  pistol;  Territory  c.  Jose  Ortega, 
abduction;  Territory  v.  Jose  Ortega,  assault  while  armed  with  deadly  weapon;  Ter- 
ritory V.  John  Wallace  and  Jose  Ortega,  abdnctionj  Territory  c.  John  Wallace  and 
Jose  "Ortega,  assault  with  pistol;  Territory  r.  Charles  J.  Lovvther,  larceny  from  per- 
son; Territory  r.  Canuto  Espinosa,  assault  with  intent  to  kill;  Territory  r.  George 
Sauer,  assault  with  intent  to  murder;  Territory  v.  George  Saner,  assault  with  pistol; 
Territory  v.  Juan  Pacheco,  unlawfully  selling  liquor;  Territory  v.  Juan  Pacheco, 
unlawfully  selling  liquor;  Territory  v.  Silvero  Gallegos,  unlawfully  selling  liquor; 
Territory"?'.  Silverio  Gallegos,  uidawfully  selling  liquor;  TeiTitory  ?■.  Silverio  Gallegos, 
assault  while  armed  with  deadly  weajion;  Territory  v.  Charles  Arellano,  assault  while 
armed  with  deadly  weapon;  Territory?'.  Silverio  Gallegos  and  Juan  Pacheco,  unlaw- 
fully selling  li(iuor;  Territory  ?•.  Silverio  Gallegos  and  Juan  Pacheco,  unlawfully  sell- 
ing liquor. 

UNION   COUNTY. 

IJd  of  indicimeMH  returned  by  the  grand  juries  of  Union  County,  during  the  fall  term  of 
court  1900,  andu}-)  to  the  fall' term  of  court  1903. 

September  term,  1900. 

Territory  r.  Trinidad  Vigil,  ai)peal;  Territory  r.  Ricarcio  Medina,  forgery;  Terri- 
tory r.  Cosme  Padilla,  forgery;  Ter'-itory  r.  Cecilio  Ortega,  murder;  Territory  v.  Albino 
Sandoval,  Francisco  Mora,  "larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  r.  Estel)an  Maes,  forgery; 
Territory  v.  J.  G.  Adamson  alias  E".  W.  Wright,  larceny;  Territory  r.  Victor  Alarid, 
assault  with  intent  to  murder;  Territory  r.  Victor  Alarid,  assault  with  intent  to  kill; 
Territory  ?■.  Jose  Garcia  and  Jose  Tapia,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  /•.  Jose  Torres, 
assault  with  intent  to  murdei;  Territory?'.  Ed.  Austin,  larceny  of  horses;  Territory  r. 
M.  S.  Brown,  retailing  liquor  without  license;  Territory  v.  Jose  Y.  Rael,  larceny  of 
horses. 

3farch  term,  1901. 

Territory  r.  Madison  Coppenbarger,  Wm.  X.  Sherman,  nun-der;  Territory  r. 
Gabriel  Atencia,  appeal;  Territory  v.  J.  F.  Cowen,  petldling  without  license;  Ter- 
ritory V.  J.  F.  Cowen,  peddling  without  license;  Territory  v.  J.  F.  Cowen,  peddling 


288  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

without  license;  Territoiy  r.  ]\L  C-.  Alexander  alias  BoV)  Alexander,  larceny  of 
cattle;  Territory  r.  M.  C.  Alexander  alias  Bob  Alexander,  lart-eny  of  cattle;  Ter- 
ritory r.  M.  C.  Alexander  alias  I)ol)  Alexander,  unlawfully  branding  cattle;  Territory 
r.  M.  C.  Alexander  alias  Bol)  Alexander,  defacing  brands;  Territory  v.  James  S. 
.Terrell,  driving  cattle  out  of  Territory  without  being  inspected;  Territory  r.  Jose  F. 
Gomez,  endjezzlement;  Territory  r.  Julian  Ramirez,  uttering  forged  check. 

Sepfoiiher  term,  1901. 

Territory  v.  George  Tate,  ])eddling  without  license;  Territory  r.  Maurice  Hauen, 
burglary;  Territory  v.  John  Young,  unlawfully  carrying  arms;  Territory  v.  Fred 
Alexander,  assault  to  kill;  Territory  /■.  Victoriano  Tafoya,  rape;  Territory  v.  Jose 
Cornelio  Gonzales,  larceny  of  cattle. 

Marcli  term,  1902. 

Territorv  r.  Jose  Cornelio  Gonzales,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  c.  Robert  8.  ]\Ialey, 
larceny;  Territor\^  v.  Benito  Anaya,  assault  to  murder;  Territory  v.  Jose  Gornelio 
Gonzales,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  r.  G.  W.  Guyer  and  Romulo  Padilla,  mal- 
feasance in  office;  Territory  v.  G.  W.  Guyer,  Romulo  Padilla,  malfeasance  in  office; 
Territory  r.  G.  W.  Guyer  and  Romulo  Padilla,  malfeasance  in  office;  Territory  v. 
Jose  Cornelio  (Tonzales,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  r.  Jose  Cornelio  Gonzales,  unlaw- 
fully selling  cattle;  Territory  e.  Jose  Cornelio  Gonzales,  unlawfully  selling  cattle. 

September  term,  1902. 

Territory  r.  All)ert  Jordan,  carrying  deadly  weapons;  Territory  'V.  William  Wal- 
droup,  driving  cattle  from  Territory  without  inspection;  Territory  v.  Thomas  Denny, 
carrying  arms;  Territory  r.  Louis  Keeper,  carrying  arms;  Territory  v.  Charles  O. 
Kidd,  carrying  arms;  Territory  r.  Juan  Torino,  Mathew  ]\IcMains,  John  R.  Guyer, 
Lola  Keough,  Louis  Keeper,  assault  with  pistol,  etc.;  Territory  v.  Charles  O.  Kidd, 
carrying  arms;  Territory  v.  All)ert  Jordan,  carrying  arms;  Territory  v.  Louis  Keeper, 
carrying  ai-ms;  Territory  v.  Thomas  Denny,  carrying  arms;  Territory  /'.  William 
Gray,  unlawfully  discharging  pistol;  Territory  v.  John  R.  Guyer,  eml^ezzlement: 
Territory  v.  Jcjhn  R.  Guyer,  forgery;  Territory  v.  S.  O.  Stewart,  peddling  without 
license;  Territory  v.  William  Burt,  unlawfully  carrying  arms;  Tei'ritory  r.  James  S. 
Jerrell,  obtaining  signature  under  false  pretenses;  Territt)ry  e.  James  S.  Jerrell, 
unlawfully  selling  mortgaged  property;  Territory  v.  .Santiago  Ortiz,  criminal  com- 
plaint filed  by  district  attorney. 

MORA    COrXTY. 

Lht  of  indictments  returned  h//  the  grand  juries  of  Mora  County  from  the  term  of  court  held 
in  October,  1900,  up  to  and  including  the  term  of  court  held  in  April,  1902,  there  being 
no  term  of  court  held  in  Mora  Count >j  in  October,  1902. 

October,  1900. 

Territory  /•.  Donaciano  Trujillo,  assaulting  wife;  Territory  v.  Jacobo  Branch,  lar- 
ceny of  cattle;  Territory  v.  Adolfo  ^I.  ^fartinez,  unlawfully  selling  sheep;  Territory 
V.  Severino  Trujillo,  unlawfully  selling  cattle. 

October  term,  1901. 

Territory  v.  Guadalujie  B.  de  Cordova;  appeal,  assault  and  battery;  Territory  v. 
Alberto  Martinez,  assault;  Tei-ritory  c.  Rumaldo  ^Martinez,  assault:  Territory  r.  Nico- 
las Lopez,  larceny  of  horse;  Territory  r.  Cruz  Naranjo.  assault:  Territory  r.  P.  J. 
Zeiniet,  embezzlement;  Territory  r.  Ambrosio  ^Martinez,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory 
r.  Jose  D.  Herrera,  dealing  in  merchandise  without  license;  Territory  v.  Jacabo 
Branch,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  r.  T.  C.  Walker,  larceny;  Territory  i\  Arturo 
Moya,  larceny  of  horse;  Territory  v.  Julian  (ionzales  y  Baca,  larceny. 

Aiird  term,  1902. 

Territory  v.  Porfirio  Garcia,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  /•.  Antonio  Lopez,  larceny 
of  cattle;  Territory  r.  Telesfor  Jiminez,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  r.  Telesfor  Jimi- 
nez,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  v.  Telesfor  Jiminez,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  v. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  239 

Telesfor  Jimiiiez,  unlawfully  killing  cattle;  Territory  r.  Telesfor  Jiininez,  larceny  and 
killin^r  cattle;  Territory  r.  Teles^for  Jiminez,  unlawfully  killing,'  cattle;  Territory  r. 
Telesfor  Jiminez,  larceny  of  a  horse;  Territory  /•.  Telesfor  Jiminez,  unlawfully  kill- 
ing cattle;  Territory  /•.  Telesfor  Jiminez,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory /•.  Telesfor  Jimi- 
nez, larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  r.  Telesfor  Jiminez,  larceny  of  horses;  Territory  v. 
Telesfor  Jiminez,  larceny  of  horse;  Territory  /'.  Leandro  Archuletta,  appeal;  Terri- 
tory r.  Jose  Brazil,  appeal;  Territory  v.  C.  R.  Walker,  practicing  medicine  without 
license;  Territory  v.  Nicolas  Guiterrez,  assault  on  wife;  Territory  c.  Pablo  (iallegos 
and  Meliton  Garcia,  larceny  from  person;  Territory  v.  Pal)lo  (tallegos  ami  Meiiton 
Garcia,  robbery  from  person;  Territory  r.  Pablo  Gallegos,  robbery  from  person;  Ter- 
ritory ('.  PabloGallegos,  robbery  from  person;  Territory  r.  Meliton  Garcia,  robbery 
from  person;  Territory  r.  Meliton  Garcia,  larceny  from  person;  Territory  r.  Tiburcio 
Romero  y  Cordova,  rape;  Territory  r.  Simon  Barela,  rape. 

GUADALIPE   COUNTY. 

Li><t  of  indictments  returned  hij  the  grand  juries  of  Guadalujic  Coatdij  dariiKj  the  jxid  ttro 

years. 

June  term,  1900. 

Territory  r.  Celestiuo  Lopez,  larceny  of  horse;  Territory  r.  Severo  Maes,  abandon- 
ing sheep;  Territory  /-.  Severe  Maes,  abandoning  sheep;  Territory  v.  Severo  Maes, 
abandoning  sheep;  Territory  r.  Severo  3Iaes,  abandoning  sheep;  Territory  ?;.  Jacobo 
Lucero,  larceny  from  store;  Territory  v.  Andrea  Sanchez  de  Guiterrez,  larceny  from 
store;  Territory  v.  Alfredo  Lucero,  larceny  from  store;  Territory  v.  Pilar  Lucero, 
larceny  from  store;  Territory  v.  William  N.  Fowler,  larceny  of  sheep;  Territory  v. 
Jose  ]\ianuel  Gonzales,  larceny  of  sheep;  Territory  v.  Gabriel  Chacon,  larceny  of  cat- 
tle; Territory  r.  Green  Maxey,  larceny  of  sheep;  Territory  r.  Greenberry  JNIaxey, 
larceny  of  sheep;  Territory  v.  Greenlierry  ]\Iaxey,  larceny  of  sheep;  Territory  v. 
Greenberry  Maxey,  larceny  of  sheep;  Territory  v.  Eliseo  Chavez  and  Rafael  Moya, 
larceny, of' a  horse;  Territory  v.  Rutiuo  Rael,  larceny  of  sheep;  Territory  /'.  Eliseo 
Chavez  and  Rafael  Moya,  larceny  of  a  horse;  Territory  v.  Joe  Shuttleworth,  larceny 
of  sheep;  Territory  v.  Jose  Bernadino  Chavez,  larceny  of  sheep;  Territory  r.  George 
Chavez,  larceny;  Territory  r.  George  Maes,  larceny;  Territory  v.  Severo  Maes,  larceny 
of  sheep;  Territory  v.  Severo  Maes,  larceny  of  sheep;  Territory  v.  Severo_  Maes, 
larceny  of  sheep;  Territory  v.  Severo  Maes,  larceny  of  sheep;  In  re  Crecencio  Gal- 
legos, contempt;  Territory  /•.  Narsiso  Saiz,  assault  and  battery. 

Octoljer  term,  1901. 

Territory  r.  Delfino  Aragon,  assault  with  intent  to  murder;  Territory  /•.  Juan 
^leclina,  murder;  Territory  V.  Hilario  Garcia,  assault  with  intent  to  murder;  Terri- 
tory v.  William  Smith,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  v.  AVilliam  Smith,  unlawfully 
confining  calves;  Territory  r.  Jesse  Smith,  unlawfully  confining  calves;  Territory  v. 
Jesse  Smith,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  r.  Condy  ("armack,  unlawfully  confining 
calves;  Territory  r.  Condy  Carmack,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  r.  W.  J.  McAdams, 
larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  r.  W.  J.  ^IcAdams,  unlawfully  confining  calves;  Terri- 
torv  ('.John  Williams,  unlawfully  confining  calves;  Territory  v.  :Maxmiliano  Gal- 
legos, assault  and  battery;  Territory  v.  Alton  Thomas,  larceny  of  a  horse;  Territory 
r.  Robert  Rader,  murder;  Territory  v.  Condy  Carmack  and  W.  J.  McAdams,  larceny 
of  cattle;  Territory  /;.  Pilar  Lucero,  assault  with  deadly  weapon;  Territory  v.  Narciso 
Romero,  larceny  of  a  horse;  Territory  v.  Narciso  Romero,  larceny  of  a  horse;  Terri- 
tory of  New  Mexico  v.  Apolocarpio  Anaya,  Hilario  (.iarcia,  Pedro  Sedillo,  assault  to 
kill;  Territory  v.  Cristino  Chavez,  retailing  liquor  without  license;  Territory  r.  Luci- 
ano Uliberri,  retailing  liquor  without  license;  Territory  v.  L.  H.  Bishop,  retailing 
liquor  without  license;  Territory  r.  Cresencioano  Segura,  retailing  licpior  without 
license;  Territory  r.  Jose  Bruno  Martinez,  retailing  liquor  without  license;  Territory 

V.  Thomas  Scott,' retailing  licjuor  without  license;  Territory  r. Deats,  retailing 

liquor  without  license;  Territory  r. Giddings,  retailing  liquor  without  license; 

Territory   r.  Wallace,  retailing   liquor  without  license;   Territory  v.   Juan 

Chavez  y  Garcia,  retailing  liquor  without  license;  Territory  /■.  W.  L.  Wood,  retail- 
ing liquor  without  license;  Territory  v.  W.  S.  Dunn,  retailing  licpior  without  license; 

Territory  v.  AVheeler,  retailing  liquor   without  license;   Territory  v.  

Stern,  retailing  liquor  without  license;  Territory  v.  IMiguel  Auski.  retailing  liquor 
without  license;  Territory  r.  T.  ^L  Dultoise,  retailing  liquor  without  license;  Terri- 
torv  V.  Charles  Goldammer,  retailing  liiiuor  without  license;  Territory  v.  :\Iolini  & 


240  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Eakin,  whule^^alinj:  li(iaor  without  license;  Territory.  Thomas  Scott,  gaining  without 

license;  Territory  r.  Juau  Aden,  gaming  without  license;  Territory  v.  Deats, 

gambling  without  license;  Territory  /'.  Harry  P.  Neil,  gamT)ling  without  license; 
Territory  /•.  Charles  Clay,  gambling"^  without  license;  Territory  /•.  Seferino  Romero, 
gambling  without  license;  Territory  r.  John  Coble,  gambling  without  license;  Terri- 
tory r.  — ^Morrison,  gambling  without  license;  Territory   r.   Luciano   Uliberri, 

gambling  without  license;  Territory  /•.  Lusk  Walsh,  gambling  without  license;  Terri- 
tory /'.  Apolicarpio  Anaya,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  r.  Ronialdo  Aragon,  assault 
to  mm-der;  Territory  r.  .Samuel  Hunter,  larceny  of  horse;  Territory  r.  H.  T.  Stebbins, 
murder;  Territory  r.  Street  and  Smith,  larceny  of  cattle;  Territory  r.  Pelagio  Casaus, 
assault  to  murder;  Territory  r.  Gregorio  Sanchez,  appeal;  Territory  r.'  (iregorio  San- 
chez, appeal. 


March  31,  1902. 

Territory  r.  George  Riley  Massengee,  Henry  Hawkins  (otherwise  called  "Bill 
Daniels"),  Witt  Neil  (otherwise  called  "Shorty  Daniels"),  George  Cook  (otherwise 

called  "Trailer"),  : Potter  (otherwise  called  "Pat  :Murphey"),  John  Smith 

(otherwise  called  "Sam  Bass"),  Frank  Isbell  (otherwise  called  "Kid"),  criminal 
complaint  filed  by  district  attorney,  murder  and  robbery;  Territory  r.  James  D. 
Eakin,  T.  D.  Burdick,  Louis  Fonville,  murder,  criminal  complaint. 

Territory  of  New  Mexico, 

County  of  San  Migveh 

1,  Secandino  Romero,  clerk  of  the  district  court  for  the  fourtli  judi- 
cial district  of  the  Territory,  comprising  the  counties  of  San  Mio-uel, 
Colfax,  Union,  Mora,  and  Guadalupe,  certify  that  the  foreg-oing-  forty- 
eight  type-written  pages  contain  a  true  and  perfect  copy  of  the  grand 
and  petit  jurors  in  said  counties  from  the  date  of  the  fall  term.s  of  court 
in  said  counties  in  the  year  1900  down  to  and  including  the  fall  terms 
which  have  been  held  in  said  counties  in  the  year  1902,  and  that  said 
foregoing  forty-eight  pages  of  type-written  matter  also  contain  a  full 
and  complete  transcript  of  all  indictments  returned  into  said  court  by 
the  grand  juries  of  said  counties  during  said  period  of  time,  as  the  same 
appears  of  record  and  on  the  liles  of  my  office. 

Witness  mv  hand  and  the  seal  of  said  court  this  ITth  day  of  Novem- 
ber, A.  D.  1902. 

[seal.]  Secundixo  Komero,  Clei'lt 


EXHIBIT  B. 

BERNALILLO    COUNTY. 


W.  G.  Tight.  Josephine  S.  Parsons.  James  Hay  Paxton.  Charles  E. 
Hodgin,  Atanacio  Montova,  John  Weinzirl,  Edward  P.  Child.  Kath- 
arine Fields,  Ella  D.  Coltrain,  Mary  E.  Gilmore,  C.  H.  Decker^  Mabel 
Fitch,  Brother  James,  Brother  Isidore,  Sisters  of  Loretto,  Jose  Salazar, 
J.  J.  Lopez,  J.  G.  Gurule,  B.  Sandoval,  Juan  Baca  y  Padilla.  Sisters 
of  Charity,  James  Hovey,  M.  A.  Perea,  Juan  Analla,  Bias  Lucero, 
Maria  Lucero,  N.  F.  Chavez.  Carry  Newell.  Nicolas  Herrera,  Candido 
Chaves,  J.  H.  Gurule.  J.  D,  Archuleta,  O.  P.  Hovey,  Telesfor  Sandoval, 
J.  A.  Archuleta,  Bertha  Crocker,  J.  D,  Sandoval.  P.  Garduno,  A. 
Lucero,  C.  W.  Link,  Lullu  Perea,  Isidora  Sandoval,  Ignacio  Arel- 
lanes,  Luis  G.  Ortiz,  Juanita  Carpenter,  Lorenzo  Henderson,  Eugenic 
Yrizarri,  Marv  Cassman,  J.  A.  Nieto,  H.  S.  Bundy.  Endora  Cowpper- 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  241 

weith,  Carlota  Carpenter,  Celso  Sandoval,  liefu^-io  (lalleg-os,  L.  -lara- 
millo,  M,  Jaraniillo,  J.  I.  Dimas,  Josephine  Ingra.s.s,  M.  P.  Sena, 
Caroline  E.  Montoya,  Seferino  Baea,  Q.  Lucero.  C.  A.  Gonzales, 
Manuel  D.  Acuna,  Agustin  (lalleoo.s — 64.  And  26  teachers  employed 
in  the  city  public  schools  of  Al))uquerque,  a  list  of  which  has  not  as 
yet  been  supplied  to  this  office. 

COLFAX    COUNTY. 

S.  C.  Pandolfo,  Gertrude  Hyatt,  Mar}-  Murphy,  Solomon  Pifer,  N. 
B.  Studebaker,  Jenette  Ritchie,  Winnie  Edward,  G.  F.  McCoy,  Mrs. 
A.  W.  Mevers,  L.  D.  Brown,  Lottie  M.  Chapman,  Jossie  Lockard, 
Dorothy  C.  Bowdry,  Mary  C.  McWhite,  Julia  R.  Benam,  E.  T.  Shirly, 
Thomas  M.  English,  Fannie  Quisinberry,  Annie  Burnam,  Sallie  D. 
Burnam,  Gussie  Dyer,  Jennie  Bennet,  Ethel  Van  Buskirk,  Maud 
Franklin,  Mamie  Howell.  M.  Bannie,  A.  Wilkinson.  Mrs.  M.  Spen- 
cer, D.  L.  Lucas,  Florence  vSlocum,  Mabel  Benfer.  Anna  Bohrman, 
Ruth  Coleman,  Irene  Seekins,  Ila  Honey  field,  A.  A.  Rivera.  Kate 
Deacy,  Maggie  Smith,  J.  B.  Harvey,  John  Fees,  Andres  Espinoza — 41. 

CHAVEZ    COUNTY. 

James  W.  Wilson,  T.  S.  Carter,  L.  Martini  Manssini,  B.  F.  Harlow, 
F.  W.  Millspaugh,  James  Hervey,  Geo.  W.  Reid,  P^arl  Patterson, 
Betty  W.  Peacock,  Eva  Netherlin,' Myrtle  M.  Decker,  S.  Allice  Atte- 
bery,  Allen  Maxwell,  William  F.  Daniel,  Sallie  Wilson,  Birdie  Carter, 
Helen  D.  Snider,  Allice  Bellford,  C.  T.  Keith,  J.  A.  Fairley,  Lena 
Dillard,  Minnie  Page,  Edith  Geyer,  L.  W.  Mertin,  Minnie  Neather- 
lin,  Mrs.  John  Hopper,  L.  O.  Rodgers,  Nellie  G.  Ramer,  Jennie  James, 
Elizabeth  B.  Thorn,  Lidia  Thompson,  Etta  Lowerv,  Fannie  Garv,  Nel- 
lie Jones,  James  M.  Powell,  G.  T.  Stipling,  M.  G.  Reed,  Peai'l  Ran- 
dolph, Margarette  WoodruH,  Maud  Evans,  Lena  How,  Mattie  Luxton, 
W.  H.  Bigger,  T.  W.  Rodgers,  Ruth  Kessler,  Phronia  Lafferty— 46. 

DONNA    ANA    COUNTY. 

Luther  Foster,  Clarence  T.  Haggerty,  Arthur  Goss,  Frank  W. 
Brady,  R.  M.  Hadley,  E.  O.  Wooton,  Edith  M.  Davis,  John  D.  Tins- 
ley,  Allice  Horning,  John  J.  Vernon,  Ralph  F.  Hare,  Fabian  Garcia, 
Charles  Mills,  D."  M.  Richards,  William  A.  Sutherland,  Geraldine 
Combs,  F.  E.  Lester,  H.  M.  McGregor,  A.  B.  Sage,  Charlotte  A. 
Baker,  L.  L.  Brown,  Fannie  F.  Blakely,  Mrs.  Lee  Woodson,  Minnie 
Newberry,  Myrtle  Bailey,  Fannie  Anthony,  Mrs.  W.  R.  Fall,  Lacey 
Ethelridge,  Sister  Mary,  Mariano  Molina,  Viola  Pickock,  May  Gill- 
man,  Adrian  Gonzales,  Nellie  Mundy,  Benjamin  Luchina,  Tillie  Cost- 
ales,  Mrs.  Chaves — 39. 

EDDY    COUNTY. 

H.  E.  l^irner,  Sarah  Bothitt,  G.  F.  Ellis,  Mattie  Reiff,  F.  B.  St.  John. 
Annie  Gilson,  Maggie  Emerson,  Flora  Clarke,  Edith  McGuinn,  C.  L. 
Daley,  Emma  Ramsey,  Willis  Caldwell,  F.  A.  Williams,  Edward  Cald- 
well, H.  T.  Smith,  Juanita  Hawkes,  Lucv  Hawks,  J.  B.  Goodridge, 
Mammie  Wvlly,  Mary  Cole,  Beula  Reiff,"  W.  C.  Griffin.  Lucv  Rush, 
R.  T.  Smith— 24. 

H    S    B 16 


242  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

GRANT   COUNTY. 

Jennie  W.  Rol)ertson,  W.  H.  Decker,  W.  R.  Koehler,  E.  R.  Jackson, 
Elizabeth  A.  Pratt,  Delia  M.  Smith,  Stella  Jackson,  Rose  H.  Schmidt, 
Grace  E,  Osmer,  Dora  Titus,  Carrie  AV^are,  Elizal)eth  Swan,  M.  B. 
Gorman,  Corine  White,  Ida  C.  Wilson,  Addie  Bunker,  Lessie  Morris, 
Verda  Turner,  Mrs.  J.  D.  De  May,  Eva  McGregor— 20. 

GUADALUPE    COUNTY. 

Bernardo  Lucero,  Allice  O'Brien,  Anna  Pappen,  T.  Salas,  J.  G. 
Marquez,  Salomon  Sanchez,  F.  Sanchez,  Solia  Sanchez,  Miss  Adelina 
Hinojos,  Alfred  A.  Chaves,  J.  Rael,  Isabella  Jones,  J  nana  Caravajal, 
Adelina  Jaramillo,  J.  B.  Hinojos,  Mrs.  B.  Hinojos— 17. 

LINCOLN    COUNTY. 

Maliel  Walsh,  Marv  Skehan,  Irene  Rodgers,  Lottie  Sweet,  Edna 
Canip])ell,  G.  L.  Bradford,  May  Gilmore,  Mrs.  M.  M.  Rudisille, 
Alice  Gallucia,  Susan  Collison,  Georgina  Jackson,  Ula  Gilmore,  Pearl 
Burdette,  H.  F.  Jones,  John  A.  Halev,  Mrs.  A.  Hirbert,  Mrs.  Harvizu, 

J.  S.  Bell— l>s. 

LUNA    COUNTY. 

J.  E.  Robertson,  W.  W.  Robertson,  Dolores  Moss,  Ella  Gyney, 
Francis  U.  Duti',  D.  L.  Call,  Mrs.  A.  J.  Smith,  Annie  Scarliorough, 
E.  H,  Cox,  Lillie  Billingslea,  Rosa  Connelly — 11. 

m'kinley  county. 

John  Hodgson,  Fannie  McNulty,  Gabriel  Zaczinski,  Martina  Ortiz, 
Leon  Smith,  R.  R.  Larkin.  Miss"  Re1)ecca  Brown.  Miss  Addie  Clay- 
ton, Miss  Elizabeth  Mclntire,  Miss  Helen  McNallan,  Miss  Mary 
Murphy,  :\lrs.  E.  C.  Smith— 12. 

MORA   COUNTY. 

B.  Gallegos,  H.  B.  Baca,  Casimiro  Trujillo,  Miguel  Martinez,  Eugenic 
Romero,  Sebastian  Escjuibel,  Pedro  A.  Cordova,  Margarette  Graney, 
Georgie  Murray,  D.  Pacheco,  Abel  Sandoval,  Albino  Maes,  P.  V. 
Lobato,  M.  Tavior.  Sister  Angelica,  Sister  Ann  Joseph,  Laura  Padilla, 
M.  N.  Velastiuez,  M.  B.  Martinez,  Pearl  E.  Price,  Margarette  C.  Cor- 
dova, G.  Gallegos,  Agustin  Vigil  y  Valdez,  R.  Esquibel,  J.  H.  Parker, 
B.  Sandoval,  Sabino  Garcia,  Tomas  Trujillo,  Marceliuo  Pino,  O.  J. 
Flores,  Margarita  C.  Martinez,  Antonio  A.  Lucero,  Juanita  Gallegos, 
J.  G.  Leyba,  Esteban  Garcia,  W.  M.  Tucker,  C.  Padilla,  M.  Mar- 
tinez, Leandro  Martinez — 39. 

OTERO    COUNTY. 

A.  J.  Smith,  A.  F.  Hickson,  Mrs.  A.  J.  Hollars,  T.  H.  Shannon, 
Mr.  J.  ]M.  Blazer,  Lillian  Johnson,  Harrv  HefHeman,  Lizzie  H.  Ver- 
den.  Alien  Blacker,  J.  W.  Nations,  Mrs.'  A.  J.  Smith,  E.  H.  Cox, 
S.  C.  Bennett— 13. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  243 


KIO    ARRIBA    COUNTY. 


Francisco  Kivera,  Eliseo  Lujan,  Jose  Ttilache,  Reyes  Ortega.  P.  A. 
Domingues,  Ignacio  Cordova,  Pedro  Pacheco,  Henry  ]McKinzie.  Mi.s« 
C.  Montoya.  Frank  L.  Galle.s,.  J.  A.  Velasquez.  Miss  C.  Jaraniillo.  E. 
Jaraniillo",  Eliseo  Maestas,  D.  Archuleta.  S.  Chavez,  A.  M.  Joseph, 
Frank  P.  Chavez,  Mrs.  E.  R.  Valdez.  J.  L.  Montoya,  Miss  Call,  Eda 
Stcll)erger.  Felix  D.  Ortega,  Bernardo  Sanchez,  Miss  F.  Ortega,  Placido 
Sanchez,  E.  Gonzales.  Solodgren  E.  Jacquez.  P.  F.  Salazar,  D.  M. 
Bi-own,  Aniado  Sanchez,  S.  Roybal.  F.  Montano,  R.  Serna,  Roma 
Atencio,  J.  V.  Miera,  Manuel  Borrego,  Julian  Trujillo,  Eugenio  Mar- 
tinez, Elias  Galleg-os,  W.  H.  Shupe,  PI  Espinoza— i6. 


SAN    JUAN    COUNTY. 

John  Frazer,  Hattie  C.  Butler,  Maud  Warring,  C.  O.  Gromet,  E.  T. 
Israel,  Clarence  Wilson,  J.  Arrowsmith.  Louis  H.  Hallett,  Mrs.  Bryce, 
A.  G.  Goniett,  Delia  Martin,  Minnie  Elmer,  Mrs.  Allen,  Miss  White- 
head, Frank  Paulson,  E.  Black,  O.  L.  Waite,  Rossie  Draper,  Violet 
Draper,  E.  Wise,  J.  W.  Henry,  Mrs.  Scott  Morris — 22. 

SAN   MIGUEL    COUNTY. 

E.  L.  Hewett,  Richard  H.  Powell.  James  G.  McNarry,  T.  D.  A. 
Cockerell,  David  L.  Arnold,  W.  D.  Givens,  A.  M.  Chapman,  L.  C. 
Butcher,  Eleanor  M.  Hill,  Grace  D.  Dickenson,  May  G.  Ingersoil, 
Virginia  Hendran.  E.  Adkins,  Maggie  J.  Bucher,  Catalina  Duro,  Nellie 
Steen,  Bessie  Cavanaugh,  Nellie  Papin,  Lena  Johnson,  Allice  M. 
O'Brien,  Cornelia  Murray,  Georgia  Murray,  Winifi-ed  O'Brien,  Anna 
Papin.  Margarette  Graney,  Charles  B.  Barker,  Tereza  Lopez,  Stella  J., 
Bernard,  Francisca  Lucero,  Venceslao  Romero,  Enrique  Armijo,  A. 
Zalas,  Sister  Tereza  Maria,  Sister  Thais,  Portirio  Gallegos,  A.  A.  Gal- 
legos,  Celso  Jaramillo,  Sixto  Garcia,  Placido  Beltran.  Enrique  Marcs, 
Aurelia  Ulibarri,  Eutimio  Gallegos,  J.  B.  Gallon,  J.  I.  Garcia,  Adelia 
Gonzales,  H.  Garcia,  M.  A.  Guerin,  Juanita  Abeytia,  Isidro  Trujillo. 
P.  R.  Lopez,  Anastacio  Gallegos,  Gregorio  Esi^uibel,  Nicolas  Esquibel, 
Apolonio  Sena,  Cicilio  M.  Quintana,  Lola  M.  Romero,  G.  Ortiz,  F. 
Sanchez.  Frank  Vour,  Everardo  Armijo,  Lena  Johnson,  V  idal  M.  Flores, 
Jose  Varela,  Pablo  de  Herrera,  Francisca  Sena,  Sixto  Armijo,  Manuel 
Silva,  Melecio  Lucero,  Jose  F.  Gonzales,  Martina  Martinez,  Jose  M, 
Sena,  Juan  Gar(;ia  y  Gonzales,  Teofilo  Madrid — 74. 

SANTA    FE    COUNTY. 

L.  M.  Larson,  Mrs.  L.  M.  Larson,  R.  R.  Grant,  Grace  B.  Hall, 
Daisy  Patterson,  Berta  Rodgers,  Myrtle  Boyle,  Mrs.  II.  L.  Dunning, 
J.  A.  Wood,  Louisa  Schnepple.  Fannie  McNulty.  May  Sullivan.  Miss 
A.  S.  Bundy,  Mrs.  D.  C.  Fletcher,  Ella  M.  Berger.  Margarita  John- 
son. Florence  Gilderslee\'e,  ]\Iarv  M.  ]\Iarsh,  Virginia  G.  Call,  Camilo 
Padilla,  E.  B.  Glidden,  Emelia  Gutterman,  Rine  Sargent,  C.  A.  Lin- 
derman,  S.  T.  Smith,  Flavio  Silva,  Elizabeth  R.  Cross,  Jose  Ortiz  y 
Baca,  M.  Tessie  Call,  Valdera  Slaughter,  C.  P.  Ortiz.  Fred  Lopez, 
Sixto  Garcia,  Juan  R.  Ortiz,  Jose  F.  Gonzales,  Catharine  Halloran — 46. 


244  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

SIERKA    COUNTY. 

Maud  I.  Anderson,  Edna  Anderson,  Nona  Murphy — o. 

SOCORRO    COUNTY. 

C.  R.  Keyes,  F.  C.  Lincoln,  E.  A.  Drake,  Julia  F.  Atkinson,  Oliver 
K.  Smith,  A.  W.  Fitch,  Sister  Mary  Basil.  Sister  Angelica,  Miss 
Mammie  Cortisy,  Russell  Howell,  Julius  Campridon.  C.  P.  Armijo, 
Manuel  Trujillo',  Martin  Lopez,  G.  Vioil,  P.  A.  Marcelino.  Miss  L. 
Morris,  Mrs.  Carlota  Savles,  Miss  A.  M.  Randall,  J.  M.  White,  Miss 
L.  Millard,  Miss  McCoach,  C.  C.  Torres,  Apolonio  Valle,  S.  Baca, 
M.  Carrillo,  Mrs.  R.  G.  Mosse,  J.  N.  Romero,  L.  Arag-on,  Julian 
Trujillo,  Mrs.  E.  M.  Bartelle,  J.  S.  Baca,  David  Flores.  C.  Jojola, 
Seferino  Montoya,  P.  A.  Vio-il.  R.  Gonzales,  E.  M.  Chaves,  E.  Flores, 
Abelino  Lopez^  Leopoldo  Contreras,  Miss  Laura  Green.  Gregorio 
Abeyta,  Rafael  Pena,  J.  G.  Davis,  J.  D.  Carrillo,  D.  E.  Bera,  C.  H. 
Kirkpatrick,  Miss  Kirkpatrick,  A.  L.  Heister — 52. 

TAOS   COUNTY. 

E.  D.  Seai-s,  Collins  Dickson,  Richard  Oakley,  Mildred  Newby, 
Maud  Hamblin,  Bertha  Hamblin.  Sister  Adelaide,  Sister  Divina,  Sister 
Birchman,  J.  D.  Martinez,  D.  Martinez.  J.  J.  Vigil,  G.  Martinez, 
Pablo  Baca,  Ferdinand  Me  vers,  T.  A.  Rivera,  Edward  Bowman,  Man- 
uel Martinez,  Alfred  Trujillo,  Adolph  Espinoza.  Deltinia  Sanchez, 
Felix  Trujillo,  Nicolas  Anaya,  Amador  Hernandez,  F.  A.  Valdez— 2.5. 

UNION    COUNTY. 

G.  L.  Marsh,  F.  P.  Cams.  Ida  F.  Love.  L.  ]\L  Smith,  James  Ellison, 
Mrs.  James  Ellison,  Luciano  Castillo,  Miss  Julia  Barron,  Malaquias 
Baca,  J.  J.  Garcia.  Miss  F.  Martinez,  Q.  Montoya,  Rafael  Sisneros, 
11.  Lopez,  P.  P.  Branch,  Petra  Gallegos,  Francisco  Baca,  Sixto  Garcia, 
Manuel  Martinez,  Margarita  T.  de  Karanjo.  J.  Quintana,  Miss  J.  Bar- 
ron, Benito  Cordova,  Miss  M.  Thonipson,  M.  D.  Abeytia— 25. 

VALENCIA    COUNTY. 

Fannie  F.  Graves,  Henr\-  J.  Carson,  Daniel  Romero.  -1.  D.  Cordova, 
Bentio  Otero,  Trinidad  Otero,  Luciano  Glares,  Refugia  Sanchez.  Vic- 
toriana  Conelly,  David  Lujan,  J.  M.  Samosa,  J.  H.  Gallos,  Pablo 
Jaraniillo,  Valentin  Candelaria,  Telesfor  Mirabal,  Jossie  Mirabal,  J. 
K.  Ri\-era,  Jose  M.  Torres.  Lorenzo  Otero,  Sixto  Lujan.  O.  B.  San- 
4ihez,  M.  Chaves.  Francisco  Rubi.  David  Lucero — 25. 

Total,  622. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


245 


EXHIBIT  C. 
Territory  of  New  Mexico,  Countij  of  Taos: 

LIfit  of  jieiil  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  June,  A.  D.  1901,  tena  of  the  district  court  in  and 

for  the  county  of  Tuos. 


Name. 

Town. 

Precinct. 

1.  Jose  Jesus  Vig'il        

Ranehos    

s 

5 

3.  Squire  Hartt,  jr 

4.  John  Cummins 

3 

Red  River  Citv  ...              .... 

5.  James  Riff 

do ; 

Red  River. 

5 

7.  Manuel  Miora            

Prado 

5 

8.  Jose  Aca>i<  i  Suaso 

Ranchitos  de  Abajo 

2 

do 

2 

10.  David  Velarde            ... 

Ranehos 

2 

11.  EM|ui]iulo  Martinez 

Chimasal 

9 

do 

9 

3 

14.  Jose  D.  Martinez                 

.   ...do                

3 

5 

16.  J .  D.  Morris 

Tres  Piedras 

15 

17.  Manuel  Lnjan                  ....         .   . 

Llano                                       .          ... 

Llano. 

18.  Manuel  Medina 

Arroyo  Seco 

5 

19.  Manuel  R.  Martinez 

do 

5 

20.  Chas.  Weber 

Red  River  Citv 

Red  River. 

21.  Concepcion  Dominguez  .        .... 

Chimasal .     .                             

9 

22.  W.  A.  Robbins 

Valdez 

5 

10 

24.  Pedro  R.  Trujillo 

Taos 

1 

We.  the  undersigned  commissioners,  dul}"  appointed,  selected,  and 
sworn  to  select  24  qualitied  persons  to  serve  as  petit  jurors  for  June, 
A.  D.  1901,  term  of  the  district  court  in  and  for  the  count}'  of  Taos, 
Territorv  aforesaid,  do  hereby  certify  that  we  have  on  this  11th  day  of 
May,  A.  D.  1901,  duly  selected  the  persons  named  in  the  foreg-oing- 
list  for  the  said  June,  A.  D.  1901,  term,  the  said  persons  being  duly 
qualitied  to  serve  as  such  petit  jurors. 

William  Fraser. 
W.  M.  Adair. 

Juan  Nepomoceno  (his  x  mark)  Martinez. 
Witness  to  mark: 
Frank  Staplin. 
N,  H.  Gillott. 

Subscribed  and  sworn  to  before  me  this  11th  day  of  May,  A.  D.  1901. 
[seal.]  Frank  Staplin,  Notary  Pahlic. 

Territory  of  New  Mexico.  Counti/  of  Taos: 

1,  A.  M.  Bergere,  clerk  of  the  district  court  of  the  first  judicial  dis- 
trict of  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico  in  and  for  the  county  of  Taos, 
do  hereby  certify  that  the  above  and  foregoing  is  a  true,  correct,  and 
complete  copy  of  the  list  of  petit  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  June, 
A.  D.  1901,  term  of  the  district  court  in  and  for  said  count}^  of  Taos. 

In  witness  whereof  I  have  hereunto  set  my  hand  and  the  seal  of  said 
court,  at  my  office  in  the  citv  of  Santa  Fe,  county  of  Santa  Fe,  and 
Territory  aforesaid,  this  llrth  day  of  November,  A.  D.  1902. 

[seal.]  a.  M.  Bergere,  Clerk. 


246  NEW  statp:h(>od  bill. 

Territory  of  New  Mexico,  Coavty  of  Tuos: 

List  of  grand  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  June,  A.  I).  1901,  term  of  tlie  district  court  in 

and  for  the  county  of  Taos. 


Name. 

Town. 

Precinct. 

Taos 

1 

2.  Wm.  McKean 

Red  River  City 

Red  River. 

3.  R.  W.  Tanrtv 

4    E  S  Redrline:                 .            

(^ue.'ita 

Questa. 
4 

5.  Pablo  (  isniTO'^ 

Ranehitos  de  Arriba 

5 

Ranches 

3 

8.  0.  H.  Stanley 

Taos 

1 

10 

Llano 

Llano. 

11,  Silviano  Lucero 

Arroyo  Hondo 

6 

4 

13.  .F.  P.  Wright  

Arroyo  Seco 

5 

10 

Taos 

1 

16.  Santiago  Romero 

Canon  de  Taos 

1 

Santa  Barbara 

We,  the  undersigned  conimissioners  duly  appointed,  selected,  and 
sworn  to  select  17  qualitied  persons  to  serve  as  grand  jurors  for  the 
June,  A.  D.  1901,  term  of  the  district  court  in  and  for  the  county  of 
Taos,  do  hereby  certify  that  we  have  on  this  11th  day  of  May,  A.  D. 
1901,  selected  the  persons  named  in  the  foregoing  list  for  the  said  June, 
A.  D.  1901,  term,  the  said  persons  lieing  qualilied  to  serve  as  such  grand 
jurors. 

William  Fraser. 
W.  M.  Adair. 

Juan  Nepomoceno  (his  x  mark)  Martinez. 
Witness  as  to  mark: 
Frank  Staplin. 
N.  H.  Gillot. 

Subscribed  and  sworn  to  before  me  this  11th  day  of  May,  A.  D.  1901. 
[seal.]  Frank  Staplin,  Notary  Public. 

Territory  of  New  Mexico,  Coiinfi/  of  Bto  Arriha: 

List  of  grand  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  May,  A.  D.  1901,  term  of  the  district  court  in 
and  for  tlie  county  of  Rio  Arriba. 


Name. 

Town. 

Precinct 
No. 

Manuel  Valdez  y  Vigil 

Tierra  Amarilla 

17 

11 

Silviano  Roibal 

2 

9 

13 

Antonio  Martinez  v  Cordova  .          

Quemado                  

6 

8 

Juan  Isidro  Martinez 

4 

Juan  A.  Garcia 

Ojo  Caliente 

9 

Cebolla 

12 

do                                

12 

Antonio  A.  (iallegos 

Vallecitos 

14 

Fernandez  Martinez 

18 

14 

11 

>Iaximinii)  Duran              ....                        .     . 

Los  Pinos 

]5 

David  Martinez,  jr 

Velarde 

25 

NEW  statp:ho()D  bill 


247 


We,  the  undersigned  comnii.ssioners  duly  appointed,  selected,  and 
sworn  to  select  17  duly  qualified  persons  to  serve  as  grand  jurors  for 
the  May,  A.  D.  19()1,  term  of  the  district  court  in  and  foi-  the  county 
of  Rio  Arriba  and  Territory  aforesaid,  do  hereby  certify  that  we  have, 
on  this  loth  day  of  April,  A.  D.  1901,  selected  the  persons  named  in 
the  foregoing  list,  the  said  persons  having  been  qualified  to  serve  as 
such  grand  jurors. 

Victor  Valdez. 

ToMAS  Gonzales. 

W.  G.  Sargent. 


Territory  of  New  Mexico,  County  of  Rh  Arriha: 

LiM  of  2>dit  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  May,  A.  D.  1901,  term  of  the  district  court  in 
and  for  the  county  of  Rio  Arriba. 


Name. 


Town. 


Tranquilino  Serrano Coyote 

Francisco  Durant '  Tierra  Amarilla  . . . . 

Lucio  Garcia !  Parkview 

Jose  Onecimo  Valrtes Tierra  Amanlla  . . . . 

Necolas  Martin Farkview 

Martin  Ramon  Martin i  Tierra  Amarilla 

Jose  Rami  m  Ciarcia Espanola 

Agustin  Martin Abiquiu 

Felipr  I.  Guillen |  Alcalde 

Cesario  ( TallcRos i  Abiquiu 

Salvador  Romero Las  Truchas 

Feli.x  J.  Lucero '  Elrito 

Miguel  A.  Trujillo j do 

Filadelfio  Montano I  Cebolla 

Faustin  Maes !  Canjilon 


Manuel  (iriet 
Donaciano  Salazar  . . , 

Julian  Atencio 

Meregildo  Jaramillo  . 

Miguel  Martin 

Antonio  Gurule 

Epimenio  Chacon 

Donaciano  Gallegos. 
Ramon  Jaramillo 


Embiido . 

Canones 

Cebolla 

Elrito 

Espanola 

Gallina 

Cebolla 

Elrito 

Rio  de  Chama . 


Precinct 

No.— 


20 
17 

18 
17 
18 
17 

7 
11 

2 
11 

5 
10 
10 
12 
16 

1 
23 
12 
10 

7 
24 
12 
10 

3 


We,  the  undersigned  commissioners  duh*  appointed,  selected,  and 
sworn  to  select  24  qualified  persons  to  serve  as  petit  jurors  for  the 
May,  A.  D.  1901,  term  of  the  district  court  in  and  for  the  county  of 
Rio  Arril)a,  Territorv  aforesaid,  do  herel\v  certify  that  we  have,  on 
this  15th  day  of  April,  A.  D.  1901,  selected  the  persons  named  in  the 
foregoing  list,  the  said  persons  being  qualified  to  serve  as  such  petit 

jurors. 

Victor  Valdez. 
ToMAS  Gonzales. 
W.  G.  Sargent. 


248  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Territory  of  New  Mexico,  County  of  Rio  Arriba: 

Lht  of  (jrand  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  May,  A.  D.  1902,  term  of  the  district  court  in 
and  for  the  county  of  Rio  Arriba. 


Juan  Romero 

Santia.trii  Martinez  ... 
Secumliiid  Martinez 
Theixloni  Rodriguez 

Pablo  Lurcro 

Daniel  Trujillo 

Julian  Ateneio 

Dionicio  Archuelta  . 

Juan  C.  Gurule 

Bartolo  Martinez 

Donaeiano  Chacon.. 

Felijie  (Jarcia 

Soteni  .Vrchuleta  ... 

Teodorc)  Serrano 

Pedrii  (.^nintana 

Andres  Herrera  (De) 
Jose  Rafael  Mestas . . 


Town. 


Embudo 

Truchas 

Quemado 

Espanola 

Ojo  Caliente 

El  Rito 

Cebolla 

Petaca 

Vallecitos 

Ortiz 

Canjilon  

Teirra  Amarilla 

Park  View 

Coyote 

Canones 

Chamita 

Gallina 


Precinct 
No.— 


6 
7 
9 
10 
12 
13 
14 
15 
16 
17 
18 
•20 
22 
8 
24 


We.  the  undersigned  comnii.ssioners.  duly  appointed  and  sworn  to 
select  17  qualified  persons  to  serve  as  orand  jurors  for  the  May.  A.  D. 
19<>2,  term  of  the  district  court  in  and  for  the  county  of  Rio  Arriba, 
do  hereby  certify  that  we  have  on  this  21st  day  of  April,  A.  D.  1902, 
selected  the  persons  named  in  the  foregoing  list  for  the  said  Ma}^  A.  D. 
1902,  term,  the  said  persons  being  duly  qualified  to  serve  as  such  grand 
jurors. 

B.  C.  Hernandez. 

Venceslao  Jaramillo. 

PoLicARPio  Lopez. 


Territory  of  New  Mexico,  County  of  Rio  Arrlha: 

List  of  petit  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  May,  A.  D.  1902,  term  of  the  district  court  in 
and  J  or  the  county  of  Rio  Arriba. 


Name. 


Manuel  Martinez  y  Ruibal 

Pedro  Maes 

Luciano  Salazar 

Franciscc  >  E.  Vigil 

Creeencio  Archuelta 

Reyes  Trujillo 

Candido  Salazar  y  Garcia . . 

Melq>iiades  Martinez 

Donanciano  Campos 

Francisco  Vigil 

Jesus  Maria  Gonzales 

Jose  Vivian  Suaso 

Casimiro  Montoya 

Rosendo  Moya 

Buenaventura  Martinez  . . . 

Jose  Damian  Giron 

Policarpio  Chaves 

Jose  Ulibarri 

Tireio  Gomez 

Nicolas  Martinez 

Juan  Andres  Gomez 

Manuel  Salazar 

Rumaldo  Montoya 

Henrv  McKenzie 


Town. 


Embudo 

Chamita 

....do 

Rio  Chama 

do 

Chimayo 

Espanola , 

Chamita 

Ojo  Caliente 

El  Rito 

do , 

Abiquiu 

do 

do 

Petaca 

Vallecitos 

do 

Tierra  Amarilla 
do 


Park  View 

Lumberton 

Canones , 

Velarde 

Los  Ranchitos  . 


Precinct 
No. 


1 
2 
2 
3 
3 
4 
7 
8 
9 
10 
10 
11 
11 
11 
13 
14 
14 
17 
17 
18 
21 
23 
25 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL. 


249 


We,  the  undei'fsioned  eoiiinii.ssioiiers,  duly  appointed  and  sworn  to 
select  2-1:  qualified  persons  to  serve  as  petit  jurors  for  the  May,  A.  L). 
1902.  term  of  the  district  court  in  and  for  the  county  of  Rio  Arriba,  do 
hereby  certify  that  we  have  on  this  21st  day  of  April,  A.  1).  1902, 
selected  the  persons  named  in  the  foregoing-  list  for  the  said  May,  A.  I). 
1902,  term,  the  said  persons  being  qualified  to  serve  as  such  petit 
jurors. 

B.  C.  Hernandez. 

Venceslao  Jaramillo. 

PoLicARrio  Lopez. 


Territory  of  New  Mexico,  County  of  Scm  Juan: 

List  of  petit  jurora  selected  to  serve  for  the  October,  A.  D.  1902,  term  of  the  district  court 
i)i.  and  for  the  county  of  San  Juan. 


Name. 


Walter  Van  Bruddenboek 

Frank  Mir 

E. D. Duncan 

J.T.Green 

J.B.Austin 

Ed  Wise 

W.L. Paddock  

William  Thomas 

H.  H.De  Luche 

W.  L.  Kennedy 

J.  C.  Carson  

Larkin  Beck 

Geo.  W.  Griffin 

Robert  Townsend 

Geo.  W.  Adair 

Thomas  Gail 

Pedro  Montano 

Manuel  Prado 

Juan  A. Jacquez  

William  Gilmore 

Nicanor  Chavez 

Luis  Munoz 

Ed  Foster 

Frank  W.  Blackmer 


Town. 


Pine  River. 

....do 

Aztec 

....do 

do 

do 

La  Plata  . . . 

do 

Fruitland . . 
do 


Precinct 
No. 


Farmington 

do 

do 

do 

Bloomfield.. 

do 

Largo 

do 

do 

Flora  Vista  . 

Blanco 

do 

Cedar  Hill  . . 
do 


We,  the  undersigned  commissioners,  duly  appointed,  selected,  and 
sworn  to  select  from  the  jury  list  of  the  county  of  San  Juan  24  quali- 
fied persons  to  serve  as  petit  jurors  for  the  October,  A.  D.  1902.  term 
of  the  district  court  in  and  for  the  county  of  San  Juan,  do  hereby  cer- 
tify that  we  have  on  this  2Tth  day  of  September,  A.  D.  1902,  selected 
the  persons  named  in  the  foregoing  list  for  the  said  term,  the  said 
persons  being  duly  qualified  to  serve  as  such  petit  jurors. 

George  A.  Tinker, 
C.  S.  Cameron, 
Leonard  Boat, 

Co/mnissioners. 


250 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Territory  of  New  Mexico,  County  of  San  Juan: 

List  of  grand  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  October,  A.  D.  1902,  term  of  the  district  cour 
in  and  for  the  county  of  San  Juan. 


Niime. 

Town. 

Precinct 

No. 

B.  A.  Rodriguez 

Pine  River 

1 

Price  Walters 

2 

A.  R.  Springer 

do 

2 

A.  Villiuan 

do  ..  . 

2 

Cliiirk's  I'rico 

La  Plata ... 

3 

Mike  Real  

.  .    do 

3 

J.  E.  McCartv 

Fruitland 

do 

4 

S.  H.  McGee 

4 

D.  J.  Craig 

Farmington 

5 

M.  W.  Milligan 

do 

5 

Jas.  T.  Fay 

..  .do 

5 

John  Tennev  

Bloomfield  .   . 

6 

M.  S.  Pachaco 

M.  F.  Mullarkv 

8 

Reuben  Hefflin 

do 

8 

J.  Sixto  Baca 

Blanco 

Cedar  Hill.... 

9 

Frank  Robbing 

10 

We,  the  undersigned  commissioners,  duh*  appointed,  selected,  and 
sworn  to  select  from  the  juiy  list  of  the  count}^  of  San  Juan  17 
qualified  persons  to  serve  as  grand  jurors  for  the  October,  A.  D. 
190:],  term  of  the  district  court  in  and  for  the  said  county,  do  hereby- 
certify-  that  we  have  on  this  27th  day  of  September,  A,  D.  1902, 
selected  the  persons  named  in  the  foregoing  list  for  the  said  October, 
A.  D.  1902.  term,  the  said  persons  being  duly  qualified  to  serve  as  such 
grand  jurors. 

George  A.  Tinker, 
C.  S.  Cameron, 
Leonard  Boat, 

Commissioners. 

Territory  of  New  Mexico,  County  of  Santa  Fe: 

List  of  grand  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  September,  A.  D.  1902,  term  of  the  distric 
court  in  and  for  the  county  of  Santa  Fe. 


Name. 

Town. 

Precinct 
No. 

Ciriaco  Rael 

Frank  Williams 

20 

Jose  Lopez 

11 

John  Bell 

Sixto  Garcia 

3 

L.  A.  Hughes 

do 

17 

C.  W.  Dudrow 

do ..   .. 

4 

G.  W.  Hickox 

do 

3 

Soldinnii  Sjiitz 

.  .do  .. 

18 

Simnn  Xu^liaum 

do 

17 

Antiiiiii)  ( )rtiz 

8 

12 

Ji  )se  .\ mad(  >  Lucero 

16 

Juan  M.Archuleta 

15 

Rafael  Garcia 

do 

15 

Frank  Bond 

16 

Victor  Ortega 

14 

NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  251 

Wo,  the  undersio-ned  connni.ssioner.s,  duly  appointed,  selected,  and 
sworn  to  select  from  the  jury  list  of  the  county  of  Santa  Fe  17  (piali- 
tied  persons  to  serye  as  g-rand  jurors  for  the  September,  A.  1).  ]H<>2, 
term  of  the  district  court  in  and  for  the  county  of  Santa  Fe,  do  hereljy 
certify  that  we  haye  on  this  Tth  day  of  August,  A.  D.  1902,  selected 
the  persons  named  in  the  foregoing  list  for  the  said  September,  A.  D. 
1902,  term,  the  said  persons  bein^g  duly  qualitied  to  serye  as  si^ch 
grand  jurors. 

H.  B.  Caktwright, 
J.  B.  Mayo. 
Celso  Lopez, 

Commimoyiers. 


Territory  of  New  Mexico,  County  of  Santa  Fe: 

List  of  petit  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  September,  A.  D.  1902,  term  of  the  district  court 
in  and  for  the  county  of  Santa  Fe. 


Precinct 
No. 


Guillcrmo  Salazar Santa  Fe I  18 

Tomas  Gurule Canoneito !  j^ 

Pedro  Martinez Golden '  11 

George  Smith do 11 

Juan  Sanchez [ do 11 

Daniel  Wright I do l^ 

George  E.  Bailev '  Cerrillos _( 

Luis  Moya Santa  Fe ^ 

Jose  Dolores  Garcia do 2 

William  H.  Kerr do I  1' 

Hilario  Apodaca do :  o 

Jesus  M.  Romero do 1  w 

Feliz  Lopez do i  -J 

Santana  Herrera do '  17 

Francisco  Ortiz  v  Baca do 2 

Santiago  C.  de  Baca do j  1^ 

Juan  Manuel  Martinez do '  If 

Epimenio  Maestas Santa  Cruz i  lo 

Jesus  Maria  Montoya Pojoaque i  l 

Julian  Ortiz do '  1 

Candido  Duran Santa  Fe 4 

Daniel  Carter Glorieta i  l-i 

D.  M.  Quintana ,  Lam y - 

George  Davis :  Gahsteo ;  » 


We.  the  undersigned  commissioners,  duly  appointed,  selected,  and 
sworn  to  select  from  the  jury  list  of  the  county  of  Santa  Fe,  2-1  quali- 
tied persons  to  serye  as  petit  jurors  for  the  September,  A.  D.  1902. 
term  of  the  district  court  in  and  for  the  county  of  Santa  Fe,  do  hereby 
certify  that  we  haye  on  this  Tth  day  of  August.  A.  D.  1902,  selected 
the  persons  named  in  the  foregoing  "list  for  the  said  September.  A.  D. 
1902,  term,  the  said  persons  being  duly  qualitied  to  serye  as  such  petit 

jurors. 

H.  B.  Cart-wright, 
J.  B.  Mayo, 
Celso  Lopez, 

Commission  ei'S. 


252  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL." 

Terkitoky  of  New  Mexico,  County  of  Santa  F(^: 

List  of  grand  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  March,  A.  D.  1002,  term  of  the  district  court. 


H.  Pacheco 

Diimian  Montoya 

Samilo  Padilla  y  Garcia 

Antonio  Lnjan 

Leandro  KivtTa 

J.  G.  Schnniann 

Jesus  M.  Baca 

Daniel  M.  Jones 

Pedro  Lopez  


Precinct 
No. 


Name. 


C.C.Green 

G.  B.  Hendricks  . . 
Pablo  Gallegos  . . . 
Manuel  Naranjo  . 
Albino  Herrera. .. 
Eulijo  Martinez  .. 
Benedito  Naranjo 
David  Baca  


Precinct 

No. 


We,  the  under.siyned  eomnii.ssioners,  duly  appointed,  selected,  and 
sworn  to  select  17  qualitied  persons  to  serve  as  grand  jurors  for  the 
March,  A.  D.  11M)2,  term  of  the  district  court  in  and  for  the  county 
of  Santa  Fe,  do  hereb}'  certify  that  we  have  on  this  11th  day  of  Feb- 
ruary, A.  D.  1902,  selected  the  persons  named  in  the  foregoing  list 
for  the  said  March,  A.  D.  1902,  term,  the  said  persons  being  quali- 
fied to  serve  as  such  grand  jurors. 

Aethur  Seligmax. 

Louis  D.  Sugar. 

Benito  Lujan. 


Territory  of  New  Mexico,  County  of  Santa  Ft- : 

List  of  petit  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  March,  A.  I).  1902,  term  of  the  district  court  in 
arid  for  tJie  county  of  Santa  Fe. 


Name. 


Atanacio  Vigil , 

Cristobal  Rivera 

Julian  IIcrriTa 

J.M.  |;..l:,i> 

Muiia^  Sandoval 

Nestor  Koniero 

Nicolas  Lofcz 

Ross  Gritlith 

W.M.Swyres 

J.N.Carley 

Benito  Alarid 

Francisco  Rivera  y  Gonzale; 


Precinct 
No. 


Name. 


Luciano  Ortiz 

Thomas  Griego 

Vicfiit''  K.  Koyiial.. 
Anti'iiio  llci  r-ra  . .. 

Tom:is  lloylsil 

Narciso  Lujan 

Nestor  Sena  y  Ortiz 

Daniel  Romero 

Elijio  Madrid 

Anecleto  Contreras. 

N.  Salmon , 

John  Dendahl 


Precinct 
No. 


We.  the  undersigned  commissioners,  duly  appointed  and  sworn  to 
select  24  qualified  persons  to  serve  as  petit  jurors  for  the  March,  A.  D. 
1902.  term  of  the  district  court  in  and  for  the  county  of  Santa  Fe,  do 
herel)v  certif}^  that  we  have  on  this  11th  day  of  February,  A.  D.  1902, 
selected  the  persons  named  in  the  foregoing  list  for  the  said  March, 
A.  D,  1902,  term,  the  said  persons  .being  qualified  to  serve  as  such 
petit  jurors. 

Benito  Lujan. 

Louis  D.  Sugar. 

Arthur  Seligman. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


253 


PETIT   JURORS. 


Aztec,  N.  Mex,  March  H,  1000. 
Hon  A.  M.  Bergere. 

C'lerl  of  tlie  Dldi'ict  Court, 

First  Judicial  District  of  New  Mexico: 
This  is  to  certify  that  the  followino-named  persons  have  been  this 
day  selected  by  the  undersigned  jury  commissioners   of   San    -hian 
Count}^  to  serve  at  the  ensuing  April  term  of  the  district  court  as 
members  of  the  petit  jury,  to  wit: 

1.  Herman  K.  Rathjen. 

2.  Thomas  F.  Murphy. 

3.  Foster  Bhicklock.  " 

4.  M.  Salvado  Pacheco. 

5.  George  T.  Brett. 

6.  Peyton  Ski<hnore. 

7.  Wm.  H.  Jones. 

8.  A.  F.  Koehler. 

9.  C.  A.  Grommet. 

10.  P.  M.  Sahnon. 

11.  Antone  Sever. 

12.  Wm.  F.  Flack. 

Respectfully  sul emitted . 


13.  Sixto  Baca. 

14.  J.  L.  Vance. 

15.  A.  F.  Miller. 

16.  Wm.  H.  White. 

17.  Ilarrv  S.  Allen. 

18.  W.  C).  Ashcroft. 

19.  J.  T.  Green. 

20.  Samuel  Ent. 

21.  Wm.  Graham. 

22.  A.  A.  Waggoner. 

23.  J.  E.  McCarthy. 

24.  C.  M.  Hubbard. 


J.  W.  McDeemott. 
Dr.  G.  E.  CoxDiTT. 
Tv.  C.  Grove. 


GRAND   JURORS. 

Aztec,  N.  Mex.,  Marcli  U.  1900. 
The   Clerk  of   the   District  Court  First  Judicial  District  of 

New  Mexico: 

This  is  to  certify  that  the  follov;ing-named  persons  have  been  selected 
b}^  the  undersigned  jury  commissioners  of  San  Juan  County  to  serve 
as  members  of  the  grand  jury  of  said  county  at  the  April  term  of  court: 

10.  .lacol)T.  Hobbs. 

11.  C.  S.  Cameron. 

12.  E.  F.  Spinner. 

13.  H.  H.  DeLuche. 


1.  L.  F.  Wilmers. 

2.  Wm.  A.  Car.son. 

3.  Jose  Gregorio  Jaquez. 

4.  William  E.  Gillam. 

5.  D.  J.  Craig. 

6.  Presentacion  ]Munoz. 

7.  Chas.  M.  Tonkinson. 

8.  Richard  Hendricks. 

9.  S.  E.  Koontz. 

Respectfully  sulnnitted. 


14.  G.  W.  Lamberson. 

15.  W.  L.  Paddack. 

16.  A.  D.  Coohdge. 

17.  Harvey  McCoy. 


J.  W.  McDermott. 
Dr.  E.  G.  CoNDiTT. 
L.  C.  Grove. 


254 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Territory  of  New  Mexico,  County  of  Ino.s: 

List  of  petit  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  tlie  December,  A.  D.  1901,  term  of  the  district  court 
in  and  for  the  county  of  Taos. 


Name. 


Town. 


Precinct 
No. 


Jose  Rafael  Liijan '  Penasco 

Aniceto  Tnijillo Kancho;^  of  Taos  , 

Felix  D.  Archuleta Cerro 

Manuel  Lopez Penasco 

Patrick  Lyons Taos , 

Demecio  Sisneros Questa , 

Benito  Lovato Penasco 

Jose  de  Jesus  Cruz Arroyo  Scco 

Juan  de  los  Reyes  Santistevan Costilla 

Manuel  A.  Maestas Ranchos  of  Taos  . 

Felix  Gonzales Taos , 

Jose  Matiaz  Valdez  Costilla 

Relies  Roibal  Penasco , 

Matias  Archuleta Taos 

Elov  Anaya Arroyo  Hondo — 

Jesus  Ma.Valerio Ranchos  of  Taos  . 

Alfonso  Clouthier Taos 

F.  C.  Stevens Red  River 

Hermerejildo  Sanchez Penasco 

Inoeencio  Martinez Taos 

Benedito  Martinez Arroyo  Hondo — 

Jose  Dolores  Medina Penasco 

Eliseo  Santistevan Taos 

Jose  G.  Arellano Costilla 


We,  the  under.si.oned  commissioners  duly  appointed,  selected,  and 
sworn  to  select  24  qualified  persons  to  serve  as  petit  jurors  for  the 
December,  A.  D.  1902,  term  of  court  in  and  for  the  county  of  Taos  and 
Territory  of  New  Mexico,  do  herel\v  certify  that  we  have  on  this  9th 
day  of  November,  A.  D.  1901,  selected  the  persons  named  in  the  fore- 
going list,  the  said  persons  being  duh'  qualified  to  serve. 

AxTOxio  Ma.  Borrego, 
EuGEXio  Gonzales, 
Tobias  Lujax. 


Territory  of  New  Mexico,  County  of  Taos: 

List  of  grand  jurors  selected  to  serve  for  the  December,  A.  D.  1901,  term  of  the  Taos  district 
court  u'ithin  the  first  judicicd  district. 


Name. 


Eleanor  Trujlllo I  Taos 

Alejandro  Martinez Cerro 

Manuel  Garcia Ranchos  of  Taos 

Wm.  L.  McCUure Taos 

L.  F.  Hamblin Questa,  Taos 

Nepomuseno  Martinez Penasco 

Antonio  Aban  Martinez ■- .  Arroyo  Seco 

Uemetrio  Santistevan Costilla 

Desiderio  Pacheco Penasco 

Juan  H.  Cordova Ranchos  of  Taos  . 

Juan  Cicilio  Rael Arroyo  Hondo  . . . 

Francisco  Vigil Penasco 

Jose  Hilario  Lucero Taos 

Florentino  Gallegos Costilla  

Juan  Bautista  Gonzales Ranchos  of  Taos  . 

Antonio  B.  Tnijillo Arroyo  Seco 

Narciso  Martinez Questa 


Precinct 
No. 


We,  the  undersigned  commissioners  duly  appointed,  selected,  and 
sworn  to  select  17  qualified  persons  to  serve  as  grand  jurors  for  the 
December.  A.  D,  1901,  term  of  the  district  court  in  and  for  the  county 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


255 


of  Taos,  do  hereby  certify  that  on  the  l>th  clay  of  November,  A.  1). 
1901,  we  have  selected  the  persons  named  in  the  foregoing  list,  the 
said  persons  being  duly  qualified  to  serve  as  such  grand  jurors. 

Antonio  Ma.  Borkego. 

EuGENio  Gonzales. 

Tobias  Lujan. 


EXHIBIT  D. 


Office  of  United  States  Marshal, 

District  of  New  Mexico, 
Alhuquerque^  N.  Ilex.^  Novemher  21,  1902. 

I,  C.  M.  Fo raker.  United  States  marshal  for  the  district  of  New 
Mexico,  hereby  certify  that  the  inclosed  papers  enumerated  below  are 
true  and  correct  copies  of  the  originals  now  on  file  in  my  office. 

Form  14,  account  current  fees  of  jurors,  July  1, 1902.  to  Septeml)er 
30.  1902. 

Form  14,  account  current  fees  of  jurors,  April  1,  1901,  to  June  30, 
1902. 

Form  29,  voucher  6,  fees  of  jurors,  quarter  ending  December  31, 
lltUU. 

Form  29,  voucher  3,  fees  of  jurors,  quarter  ending  December  31, 
1900. 

Form  29,  voucher  2,  fees  of  jurors,  quarter  ending  December  31, 

1900. 

Form  29,  voucher  7,  fees  of  jurors,  quarter  ending  December  31, 

1900. 

Form  29,  voucher  4,  fees  of  jurors,  i^uarter  ending  December  31, 

11)00. 

Form  29,  vouchers  1,  5,  and  6,  fees  of  jurors,  quarter  ending  June 
30,  1901. 

Form  29,  vouchers  1  and  2,  fees  of  jurors,  quarter  ending  Septem- 
ber 30,  1902. 

Total.  12  items. 

C.  M.  FORAKER, 

United  States  2faisJ((d. 


Form  No.  14. 

The  United  Stales  In  account  current  with  C.  M.  Foraker,  United  Slates  mmshcd  fur  the 
district  of]  New  Mexico,  for  fees  of  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the  United  States  courts 
during  the  period  from  Aprd  1  to  June  30,  1901. 

Dr.  Cr. 


Vouch- 
ers. 

Dollars. 

Dollars. 

To  disbursements  as  per  ab- 
stract   ^ 

i' 

S3, 124.  60 

By  balance  due  the  United  States 
per  last  account,  for  fees  of  jurors  . 

Bv  draft  of  the  United  States  treas- 
urer, dated  April  25, 1901 

S3, 683. 55 

Paid  petit  jurors 

Deposited  to  credit  of  treas- 
urerof  United  States  June 
•'0  1901     

2, 000. 00 

2,  riOO.  00 

To  balance  due  the  United 
States  

5, 024. 60 
58.95 

5, 683. 55 

5, 6!S3.  55 

250 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


District  of  New  Mexico,  ss: 

C.  M.  Foraker,  marshal  of  the  Unite'l  States  for  said  district,  l^eing  duly  sworn, 
deposes  and  says  tliat  it  appears  from  the  orders  of  court  that  the  persons  named  in 
the  vouchers  referred  to  in  the  above  account  severally  attended  as  jurors  at  the 
term  above  named,  and  that  they  wer  eentitled  to  the  sums  opposite  their  respective 
names  in  the  -s^ouchers,  for  attendance  and  travel;  and  he  further  says  that  said  sums 
have  lieen  paid  to  them,  respectively,  in  lawful  money,  in  pursuance  of  the  order  or 
orders  of  court. 

C.  M.  Foraker,  Marshal. 

Sworn  and  subscril)ed  to  this  17  day  of  July,  1901,  l^efore  me. 

Fred.  B.  McKeehax,  Notary  Puhlic. 

Indorsed:  Form  No.  14.  No.  1.  Account  current.  Dist.  of  New  Mexico.  C.  M. 
Foraker,  U.  S.  marshal.  Fees  of  jurors  from  April  1st,  1901,  to  June  30th,  1901. 
Note. — The  period  to  be  indicated  above  is  that  during  which  the  expenses  were 
incurred  or  the  services  rendered. 

Approved  at  Albuq.  July  20,  1901. 


Form  No.  14. 

The  United  States  in  account  current  with  C.  M.  Foraker,  United  States  marshal  for  the 
district  of  Neiv  Mexico,  for  fees  of  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the  United  States  courts 
during  the  period  from  July  1,  1902,  to  Sept.  30,  1902. 


Dr. 

Cr. 

Vouch- 
ers. 

Dollars. 

!  By  balance  due  the  United^  States 

Dollars. 

To  disbursements: 

Paid  .irrand  jnrorslstdis- 

1 

2 
3 

4 

1,283.25 

1, 369. 35 

465. 40 

422. 55 

Bv  draft  of  the  United  States  Treas- 
1      urer,  dated  .Tul  v  17,  1902.  No.  273. . . 

By  draft  of  the  United  States  Treas- 
urer, dated  Aui:.  •').  V.wi.  No.  417  ... 

By  draft  of  tlic  I'liitiMl  states  Trea.s- 
urer,  dated  Sept.  27,  1902 

Paid  yietit  jurors  1st  dis- 
trict (■■lurt          

2, 500. 00 

Paid  ,i;raiid  jurors  2d  dis- 

1, 500.  00 

I'aid  petit  jurors  2d  dis- 

4,000.00 

i 

To  balance  due  tlie  United 
States                            

3, 540. 55 
3, 959. 45 

7, 500. 00 

7,500.00 

District  of  New  Mexico,  8.s'.- 

C.  M.  Foraker,  marshal  of  the  United  States  for  said  district,  being  duly  sworn, 
deposes  and  says  that  it  appears  from  the  orders  of  court  that  the  ])ersnns  named  in 
the  vouchers  referred  to  in  the  above  account  severally  attended  as  jurors  at  the 
term  above  named,  and  that  they  were  entitled  to  the  sums  opposite  their  respective 
names  in  the  vouchers,  for  attendance  jukI  travel;  and  he  further  says  that  said 
sums  have  been  paid  to  them,  respectively,  in  lawful  money,  in  ])nrsuance  of  the 
order  or  orders  of  court. 

C'.  ]\I.  Foraker,  Marshal. 

Sworn  and  sul)scril>ed  to  this  1st  day  of  (3ctol>er,  before  me. 

Fred.  B.  ^NIcKeehax,  Notary  Public. 
Second  District  of  New  Mexico,  .<<.v 
In  the  United  States  district  court  for  said  district,  at  a  term  thereof  liegun  and  held 

at  All)uquerque,  on  the  ■  day  of  .      Present:  The  Honorable  Benj.  S. 

Baker,  judge,  the  following  order  was  made  and  entered  of  record,  to  wit: 

Whereas  C.  M.  Foraker,  United  States  marshal,  has  rendered  to  this  court  an 
account  of  his  disbursements  for  fees  of  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the  United  States 
courts  during  the  ]ieriod  from  July  1,  1902,  to  Sept.  30,  1902,  with  the  vouchers  and 

items  thereof,  and  in  presence  of  ,   United  States  attorney,  has  proved,  on 

oath,  to  the  satisfaction  of  the  court,  that  the  disl)ursements  charged  have  been 
fully  ]iaid  in  lawful  money:  and  whereas  said  charges  appear  to  be  just  and  according 
to  law. 


KEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  257 

It  is  hereby  ordered  that  tlie  «ud  ac-count,  aniountinji  to  three  thousand  live 
hundred  forty  dollars  and  fifty-live  cents,  be,  and  the  same  is  hereby,  approved. 

The  above  is  a  true  copv  from  the  record  of  an  order  made  by  said  court  on  the 
day  of  October,  1902. " 

Witnesss  my  hand  and  the  seal  of  said  court  this day  of  October,  1902. 

,  Clerk. 

(Indorse<l:)  Form  No.  14.  No.  one.  Account  current.  Dist.  of  New  Mexico. 
0.  M.  Foraker,  U.  S.  marshal.  Fees  of  jurors  from  July  ],  1902,  to  Sept.  .30,  1902. 
Note.^ — The  period  to  be  indicated  above  is  that  during  \vhi(;h  the  expenses  were 
incurred  or  the  services  rendered. 

$8,540.55. 

H    S   B 17 


258 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Pay  roll  of  petit  jurors  i»  nUendance  <it  the  United  States  fourtli  jveliridl  district  covrt  for 

I  'eyas, 

We,  the  midernijiiied,  do  hereby  acknowledge  to  have  rec'ei\ed  of  C.  M.  Foraker, 
respective  names,  in  full  for  the  services  specified: 


Name. 


J.  F.  Corrington  . 


Ascncimi  Paig 

Chris  Sellnian 

Chas.  U.  Strong 

Jose  Peruida 

H.  Friedman 

Chas.  V.  Hedgcock  , 
Pablo  Jaramillo  . . . 
Bias  Gallegos 


F.  Ursua 

G.Ribera 

Pablo  Ulibarri  y  Mares. 

Nicolas  Delgado 

Jcsu.s  Ma.  Qnintana 

J.L.  Padilla 

B.  Lucero 

17.  V.  Esquibel 

18.  A.  Martrnez 


Residence. 


Miles. 


19.  H.  C.  Monsimer  . 

20.  Jose  L.  Ribera... 

21.  C.  E.  Bloom 

22.  D.  C.  Newman.., 


23.  R.  Guana. 
A.  Aragon 


A.de  Herrera  . 


Santos  Anigon 


D.Sandoval. 


D.  Sandoval . 


Post-office. 


ElizalH'thtown 

Clayton  

Las  Vegas 

Mora 

Las  Vegas 

Las  Vegas 

Las  Vegas 

Las  Vegas 

IMora 

Las  Vegas 

Guadalupita. .. 

Las  Vegas 

Los  Alamas 

Villanueva 

Las  Vegas 

Las  Vegas 

Mora 

Las  Vegas 

Las  Vegas- 

Las  Vegas 

Las  Vegas 

Las  Vegas 

Liberty 

Mora 

Mora 

Mora 

Sancliez 

Pecos 


Dates  for  which  paid. 


Attendance. 


Nov.  1'. 


Nov. 

Nov. 

Nov. 

Nov. 

Nov. 

Nov. 

Nov. 

Nov. 
16, 
21, 

Nov. 
16, 
22, 

Nov. 
16, 
21, 

Nov. 
16, 
22, 

Nov. 
16, 
21, 

Nov. 
16, 
21, 

Nov. 
17, 
23, 

Nov. 
17, 
23, 

Nov. 
17, 
22, 

Nov. 
17, 
23, 

Nov. 

Nov. 

Nov. 

Nov. 
17, 
23, 

Nov. 
16, 
21, 

Nov. 
17, 
22, 
27, 

Nov. 
17, 
22, 
27, 

Nov. 
17, 
22, 
27, 

Nov. 
17, 
22, 
27, 

Nov. 
16, 
21, 
26, 


12 

12,13.... 
12 

33 

24 

24 

24 

12,  13,14, 
17,  18,  19, 
22,23. 

12,  13,  14, 
17,  18,  20, 
23,24. 

12, 13, 14, 

17,  18,  19, 
22, 23, 24. 

12, 13, 14, 

17. 19,  20, 
23, 24. 

12, 13, 14, 
17, 18,  19, 
22, 23, 24. 

12. 13. 14, 
17, 18,  19, 
22,23,24. 

13. 14. 15, 

19.20,  21, 
24. 

13, 14, 15, 
19,  20,  21, 
24. 

13,  14, 15, 

18,  19,  20, 
23, 24. 

13,  14, 15, 

19,  20,  21, 
24. 

26 

26 

26 

13,  14,  1.5, 
19,  20,  21, 
24. 

12,  13, 14, 

17,  18,  19, 
22, 23, 24. 

13, 14,  1.5, 

18,  19,  20, 
23,  24,  25, 
28,  29. 

13,  14,  1.5, 
18,  19,  20, 
23,  24,  25, 
28,  29. 
13,  14,  1.5, 
18,  19,  20, 
23,  24,  25, 
28,  29. 
13, 14,  15, 
18,  19,  20, 
23,  24,  25, 
28,  29. 
12,  13,  14, 
17,  18,  19, 
22,  23,  24, 
27,  28,  29. 


$10. 00 


10.00 
4.00 
6.00 

22. 00 
2.00 
2.00 
2.00 

28.00 


24.00 
28.  00 
22. 00 
26.00 
26.00 
22. 00 
22. 00 
24.00 
22. 00 


2.00 

2.00 

2.00 

22. 00 


30.00 
36.00 


1     18     36. 00 


18i     36. 00 


np:w  statehood  bill. 


259 


the  district  of  Xetv  Mexico  during  the  quarter  ending  December  31,  1900,  siitinrj  at  Las 
N.  M. 

United  States  marshal  for  the  di.strirt  of  New  Mexico,  the  sums  set  opposite  our 


Signatures  of  pay- 
ees. 


Witnesses  to 
marks. 


Paid  by  check. 


No. 


Date. 


Name  of  deposi- 
tory. 


144 
520 


42 


60 


20 


20 


$7.20 
26.00 

"i'io 


$23. 10 


26. 00 


S33. 10 


J.  F.  Corrington . 


2.10 


3.00 


36. 00 
4. 00 
10.50       16.50 

I      22.00 

2. 00 

!        2.00 

I        2.00 

10. 50       38. 50 

24.00 

15. 30,      43. 30 

22.00 

29.60 

9. 00       35. 00 

22. 00 

22. 00 

4. 30       28. 30 

22. 00 


Ansencio  Faiz 

Chris  Sellman 

Chas.  U.  Strong... 

Jose  Pereidad 

H.  Findman 

Chas.V.Hedgcock 
Pablo  Jaramillo . . 
Bias  Gallegos 


Chas.  C.  Shirke. 


F.  (his  X  mark)     Bias  Gallegos. 
Ursua. 

t 

G.  Ribera • 


3.60 


Pablo  Ulibarri  y 
Mares. 


Nicolas  Delgado. 


Jesus  Ma.   Quin- 
tana. 

J.  (his  X  mark)  L. 
Padilla. 


2.00 

2.00 

2.00 

22. 00 


B.  Lucero . . . 
V.Esquibel. 
A.  Martinez 


H.  C.  Monsimer. 
Jose  L.  Ribera  . . 

C.E.  Bloom 

D.  C.  Newman  . . 


34.05;       64.05 

I  I 

1.00       4.30       40.30 


1.00 


4.30 


R.  Guana .. 
A.  Aragon  . 


40. 30   A.  de  Herrera 


1.00'      8.50 


5. 60     10. 10 


40.30   Santos  Aragon. 


44.50   D.Sandoval 


48. 10   D.  Sandoval 


B.  Lucero. 


M.Butler 

Bias  Gallegos. 


1624 

1628 

1649 

172 

1724 

1725 

1726 

1728 


1729 
1730 
1731 
1732 
1733 
1734 
1735 
1736 
1737 


Nov.  13 


Nov.  13 
Nov.  13 
Nov.  16 
Nov.  24 


1738  Nov.  25 
1739]  Nov.  26 

1740! 

1741' 


16 


23 


First  National 
Bank,  Albu- 
querque. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 


Do. 


Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 


Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 


260 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Pay  roll  of  pi'lit  jvrora  in  (litcndance  at  the  United  States  fourth  judicial  district  court  for 

Vegas, 


Residence. 

Dates  for  which  paid. 

0 

iC 

3 
0 

3 

Name. 

o 

a 

i 

0) 
C-i 

s 

Post-office. 

Attendance. 

"3 
> 
g 

OS 

0 

0 

1 

< 

H.  Sandoval 

Miles. 

Nov.  12,  13,  14, 15, 
16,  17,  18,  19,  20, 
21,  22,  23,  24,  25, 
26,  27,  28,  29. 

Nov.  12,  13,  14, 15, 
16,  17,  18,  19,  20, 

21,  22,  23,  24,  25, 
26,  27,  28,  29. 

Nov.  12,  13, 14,  15, 

16,  17,  19,  20,  21, 

22,  23,  24,  26,  27, 
28, 29. 

Nov.  13, 14, 15,  16, 

17,  19,  20,  21.  22, 

23,  24,  26,  27,  28, 
29. 

Nov.  13,  14,  15,  16, 
17,  19,  20,  21,  22, 
23,  24,  26,  27,  28, 
29. 

Nov.  26, 27, 28, 29  . . 

Nov.  12, 13, 14, 15, 
16, 17,  18,  19,  20, 
21,  22,  23,  24,  25, 
26, 27, 28, 29. 

1 
2 

""2 

19 
20 

138.00 
40  nn 

30 
112 

$4.50 
16.80 

L.  Romero 

LasColonias 

Las  Vegas 

Las  Vegas 

Las  Vegas 

Las  Vegas 

Chaperito 

Wm.  N.  Rosenthal... 

i 
I61    ^9  nn 

H.  Lorenzen 

15 

15 

4 
20 

30.00 

30.00 

8.00 
40.00 

Chas.  Tamme 

D.  Winternitz 

A.  Almazar 

30 

E 

120 

18.00 

Total 

377 

754.00 

971 

1,456.65 

District  op  New  Mexico,  ss.: 

I,  Secundino  Romero,  clerk  of  the  fourth  judicial  district  court  of  the  district  of  New 
by  the  court  to  pay  the  several  above-named  the  amounts  set  opposite  their  names, 

(Indorsed:)    Triplicate.     Form  No.  29.     Voucher  No.  6.     District  of  New  Mexico 
T,as  Vegas,  N.  M.,  during  the  quarter  ending  Dec.  31,  1900.     $950.65. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


261 


the  dlMrict  of  Nev  Mexico  dnriiKj  the  quarter  ending  December  31,  1900,  sitting  <it  Jms 
N.  M. — Continued. 


O 

o 

a 
< 

o 
bp 

S 

o 
H 

4.50 
16.80 

c 

C 

Signatures  of  pay- 
ees. 

Witnesses  to 
marks. 

Paid  by  check. 

No. 

Date. 

Name  of  deposi- 
tory. 

42.50 
56.80 

H. Sandoval 

25 

17 

19 

15 

22 

24 
21 

L.  Romero 

32.00 
30.00 

Wm.  N.Rosenthal 
H.  Lorenzeu 

30.00 

Chas.  Tamme 

8.00 
58.00 

D.  Winternitz 

18.00 

1,020 

S51.00 

196. 65 

950. 65 

Mexico,  do  hereby  certify  that  the  United  States  marshal  for  said  district  was  ordered 
as  appears  from  the  records  of  the  court. 

(Signed)  Seci'ndino  Romero,  Cleric. 

Pay  roll  of  petit  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the  fourth  judicial  district  court  held  at 


262 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL 


Amended 


Payroll  of  grand  jurors  In  attendance  at  tJte  United  States  court  for  the  tit  ird  judicial 

Cruces, 

We,  the  undersigned,  do  hereby  acknowledge  to  have  received  of  C.  M.  Foraker, 
respective  names,  in  full,  for  the  services  specified. 


Name. 


Residence. 


Dates  for  which  paid. 


Post-office. 


Attendance. 


J.J.Garcia. 


J.E.Foster... 
J.  A.  Simpson 
P.  Melendres. 
Wm.  Charles . 
R.  Taylor  .... 

J.  Camune  . . . 

J.  Jaramillo. . 


H.  B.  Lane 

Dick  Seligman 

Jesus  Silva,  jr 

Howard  Guion 

Jesus  Borenda 

E.  S.  Porter 

Vicente  Naner 

D.  L.  Stephens 

E.  Madrid 

Elfanso  Lopes 

Juan  de  Dio  Telles. 


Ramon  Salazar 

Anastaco  Montoya. 

F.  Garcia 

Manuel  Balles 

Victor  Duran 


Nicanor  Guerra . 
Elay  Lucero 


Roman  Lucero. 
A.  Lucero 


Roman  Bermudes. 
Pablo  Diaz 


Total. 


Miles. 


Garfield i  Oct.  1  (2  travel). 


SW 


Dwver '  Oct.  1. 

Engle I  Oct.  1 . 

Dona  Ana '  Oct.  1. 

Steins  Pass I  Oct.  1. 

Las  Cruces I  Oct.  2. 

Las  Cruces {oct  s! 

Las  Cruces Oct.  3 . 


221 


Las  Cruces I  Oct.  1,2,3 

Las  Cruces '  Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6 

Las  Cruces Oct.  2, 3, 4,  .=>,  6 

Mesilla Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6 

La  Luz I  Oct.  1, 2, 3, 4,  .5 

Santa  Rita :  Oct.  1,2,3,4,5 

Anthony '  Oct.  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 

Werd..'. Oct.  1,2,3,4,5 

Garfield Oct.  1,  2,  3,  4, 

Chamborino i  Oct.  1,  2,  3,  4, 

Werd I  Oct.  1,2,  3,  4, 


.6... 
,6... 
,6... 
,6... 
.5,6, 
5,6, 
5,6, 


Las  Cruces 

Mesilla 

do 

do 

Hatch 


Mesilla  . 
Mesilla  •. 


Lascruces 


Oct.  2,  3,  4,  5,  6  .. 
Oct.  2,  3,  4,  5,6.. 
Oct.  2,  3,  4,  5,  6.. 
Oct.  2,  3,  4,  .5,  6  . . 
Oct.  1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6.. 


Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 
Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6 . 


Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6.. 


Mesilla '  Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6 . 


Mesilla j  Oct.  1, 2, 3, 4,  .5, 6  ...... . 

NW    Paraje i  Oct.  1,2, 3, 4, .5, 6...!      4| 


00     30 


$4.50 


8.00 

6.00:. 

2.00! 

6.00. 

2.00 

2.00. 

2.00. 

2.001 

6.00 
10.00 
10.00 
10.00 
22.00 
18.00 
14.00 
20.00 
16.00 
14.00 
16.00 


160 


10.00       4 
10. 00;      4 

10.  OOl      4 
16.00.... 


10.001      4 
10.00       4 

10.00 

10.00 


12.00 
20.00 


320 


.60 


.90 


.60 

14.40 

5.70 


80  12.00 
30  4.50 
1.05 
125     18. 75 


.60 


.60 
15.00 


Jose  Camunes  was  paid  one  day  by  mistake,  and  the  second  check  was  drawn  to 
District  of  New  Mexico,  ss: 

T,  James  P.  Mitchell,  clerk  of  the  court  of  the  third  district  of  New  Mexico,  do 
court  to  pay  the  several  grand  jurors  above  named  the  amounts  set  opposite  their 

[se.\l.]  (Signed) 

(Indorsed:)  Triphcate.  Form  No.  29.  Voucher  No  3.  District  of  New  Mexico, 
at  Lascruces,  N.  Mex.,  during  the  quarter  ending  December  31,  1900.     $518.30. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


203 


Form,  No.  29. 

district  of  New   Mexico   during  the  quarter  endinr/   December  31,  1900,  Kitting  at   Las 
N.  Mex. 

United  States  marshal  for  the  district  of  New  Mexico,  the  sums  set  opposite  our 


3 

o 

a 

< 

03 

o 

o 
H 

Signatures  of 
payees. 

Witnesses  to 
marks. 

Paid  by  check. 

No. 

Date. 

Name  of  deposi- 
tory. 

66 

220 

138 

12 

329 

$3.30 

11.00 

6.90 

.60 

16.45 

$7.80 

15. 05 
6.90 

.90 
16.45 

.60 

• 
$13.  80 

23.05 
12. 90 
2.90 
22.45 
2.60 
2.00 
2.00 
2.90 

6.00 
10.00 
10.00 
10. 60 
49.30 
37.00 
16.30 
44.90 
23.80 
17.45 
47.65 

10.60 

10.60 

10.60 

10.60 

19.80 

10.60 
10.60 

10.00 

10.60 

12.60 
44.10 

J.  J.  Garcia 

J.  E.  Foster 

251 

252 
253 
255 
256 
260 
f    263 
1     261 
262 

274 
275 
276 

277 
278 
279 
280 
281 
282 
283 
284 

285 

286 

287 

288 

289 

290 

1900 
Oct. 

Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 

Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 
Oct. 

Oct. 

Oct. 

Oct. 

Oct. 

Oct. 

Oct. 

1 

1 
1 
1 
1 
2 
3 
3 
3 

5 
6 
6 
6 
6 
6 
6 
6 
6 
6 
6 

6 

6 

6 

6 

6 

6 
6 

6 

6 

6 
6 

First    National 
Bank,   Albu- 
querque. 
Do. 

Do. 

P  Melendres 

Do. 

Do. 

R.  Taylor 

Do. 

IJ.    (his  X  mark) 
J    Camune. 

J.    (his  X  mark) 
Jaramillo. 

H.  B.  Lane 

[•P.  Avondale 

B.  B.  Ownley... 

1        Do. 

.90 

Do. 

Do. 

Dick  Seligman 

Do. 

.Icsus  Silva,  jr 

Do, 

.60 

27. 30 

19.00 

2.30 

24. 90 

7.80 

3.45 

31.65 

.60 

.60 

.60 

.GO 

3.80 

.60 
.60 

Howard  Guion  ... 

Do. 

258 

266 
46 

258 
60 
48 

258 

12.90 

13.30 
2.30 

12.90 
3.30 
2.40 

12.90 

.lesus  Borenda 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

1)  L  Stephens 

Do. 

E  Madrid 

Do. 

Elifiinso  Lopes  ... 

Do. 

Juan  (liisxiuark) 

de  Dio  Telles. 
Ramon    (his    x 

mark)  Salazar. 
Anastaco   (his   x 

mark)  Montoya. 
F.   (his  X  mark) 

Garcia. 
Manuel     (his    x 

mark)  Balles. 
Victor   (his  x 

mark)  Duran. 
Nicanor  Guerra  . . 

D.  Seligman 

D.  Seligman 

D.  Seligman 

D.  Seligman 

D.  Seligman 

D.  Seligman 

Do. 
Do. 

Do.     1 

Do. 

Do. 

76 

3.80 

Do. 
Do. 

Eloy  (his  X  mark)  ,  Nicanor  Guerro. 

Lucero. 
Roman  (his  x     D.  Seligman 

mark)  Lucero. 
A.  (his  X  mark)     D.  Seligman 

291  Oct. 

1 

292  Oct. 

Do. 

Do. 

.60 

.60 
24.10 

293 

294 
297 

Oct. 

Oct. 
Oct. 

Do. 

Lucero. 
Roman  Bermudes 

Do. 

182 

9.10 

Pablo  ( his X  mark) 
Dias. 

J.  P.  Mitchell  ... 

Do. 

2, 223 

111.15 

198.30 

518. 30 

1 

1 

cover  shortage. 

hereby  certify  that  the  United  States  marshal  for  said  district  was  ordered  by  the 
names,  as  appears  from  the  records  of  the  coitrt. 

James  P.  Mitchell,  Clerk. 
By  John  Lemon,  Deputy. 
Pay  roll  of  grand  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the  Third  judicial  district  court,  lield 


2(34 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Amended 

Pail  roll  of  pel  It  jurors  in  attendance  at  the    United  States  third  judicial  district  court 

Las  Cruces, 

We,  the  undersigned,  do  liere1)j^  acknowledge  to  have  received  of  C.  M.  Foraker, 
respective  names,  in  full,  for  the  services  specified. 


Name. 


Residence. 


Post-office. 


Dates  for  which 
paid  (attend- 
ance). 


D.  Apodaca. 


C.  Garcia . . 
N.  Lucero  . 
A.  Sarabia. 


B.  Petraza — 
Jolm  Hegan  . 


J.N.  Oustot . 
R.  Cassidy  . . 


A.Martinez 

T.Grijalba 

Francisco  Sanchez 

Ramon  Lopez 

A.  Garcia 

P.Torres 


J.J.Gonzales 

L.  Arias 

J.  Enriquez.. 
A.  S.  Abcyta. 


D.  Lopez 

J.  Provencia... 
Pablo  Cordova . 
S.  Benavidas  . . 
Luz  Rios 


Jose  Trujillo. 
J.  Armijo"... 


A.  Garcia . 
C.  Lucero. 


Miles. 


San  Antonio. 


Oct.  1  (2  travel) 


5.00; 


Tularosa Oct.  1  (3  travel) 


Las  Cruces 
Las  Cruces 


10     NE. 


Las  Cruces 
Organ  


Cooks  ... 
Hermosa 


l!      2.00. 
26. 00     47 


26.00 
30.00 


12      W. 


Las  Cruces.. 
Las  Cruces.. 
Las  Cruces.. 
Las  Cruces.. 
Dona  Ana  . . 
Pinos  Altos . 

Engle 

Las  Cruces. . 
Las  Cruces.. 
Hatch 


10     20. 00 

18.00 

18.00 

9     18.00 

9     18.00 

13:     26. 00 


SW. 


Dona  Ana . 
Dona  Ana . 
Las  Cruces. 
Las  Cruces. 
Anthony  .. 


22. 

18.00 

i 

18. 00  ... . 

! 

24. 001  4 


9     18.00 


Las  Cruces... 
Las  Palomas. 

Cuchillo 

Hatch 


q 

18.00 
20,00 

10 

18 

270 

10,     20.00 

18 

270 

13|    26. 00 

9     18. 00 

13     26.00 

62 

9.30 

13     26. 00 

48 

7.20 

10 

20.00 

2 

.30 

$7.05 
4.20 
1.5. 30 


Oct.  2 

Oct.  1,2,3,  4,  .5, 6, 7, 

8,   9,    10,   11    (2 

travel). 
Oct.  1,2,3,4,5,6,7, 

8,   9,   10,    11     (2 

travel). 
Oct.  1,  2,3,4,5,6,7, 

8,   9,   10,    11     (4 

travel). 
Oct.  1,  2, 3, 4,  .5, 6, 8, 

9,10,11. 
Oct.  2,  3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 

10, 11. 
Oct.  2,  3,4,5,6,8,9, 

10, 11. 
Oct.  2,  3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 

10,11. 
Oct.2, 3, 4, 5,  fi,  8, 9, 

10,11. 
Oct.  1,2,3,  4,5,6,7, 

8,   9,   10,    11     (2 

travel). 
Oct.l,  2,3,4,-5,6,7, 

8,9,10,11. 
Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 

10,11. 
Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8,9, 

10  11. 
Oct.  1,2, 3. 4,  .5, 6, 7, 

8,   9,   10,   11     (1 

travel) . 
Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 

10, 11. 
Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 

10,11. 
Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 

9,10,11. 
Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 

9, 10, 11. 
Oct.  1,2, 3, 4,  .5, 6, 7, 

8,    9,   10,    11    (2 

travel). 
Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 

10,11. 
Oct.  1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 

8,  9,   10,  11      (2 

travel). 
Oct.  1,2, 3, 4, 5,  6,7, 

8,  9,  10,  11        (2 

travel). 
Oct.  2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 

9,10,11  (2  travel), 

a  J.  Armijo  overpaid  S2.-50.    Amount  overpaid  and  collected  from  him,  S2.50,  and  redeposited. 


Oct.2. 
Oct.  2 . 


4  8.00]. 
11  2. 00; 
1!      2.00;. 


2.70 
3.60 


60 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


2()5 


Form  No.  29. 

for  the  district  of  Nevj  Mexico  (hiriiu/  tlie  (piarter  evding  Deciinher  31,  1000,  .fitting  at 
'N.  Mex. 

United  States  marshal  for  the  (Ustrict  of  New  Mexico,  the  sums  set  opposite  our 


s 

a 

o 
o 

lO 
CB 

o 

c 
g 

< 

o 
Ml 

05 
O 

c 

H 

o 

i 

3 

o 

Signatures  of 
payees. 

Witnesses  to 
marks. 

Paid  by  check. 

No. 

Date. 

Name  of  deposi- 
tory. 

248 
288 

$12. 40 
14.40 

$12.40 
14.40 

$18. 40 

22. 40 
2.00 
2.00 

2.00 
33.05 

37.40 

52.20 

20.00 
18.00 
18.00 
18.00 
18.60 
42.00 

32. 50 
18. 00 
18.00 
28. 40 

18. 60 
18. 60 
22. 70 
22.70 
28. 30 

18.00 
44.70 

40.10 

22.  20 

254 

257 
258 
259 

264 
1567 

1568 

1569 

1570 
1571 
1572 
1573 
1574 
1575 

1576 
1577 
1578 
1579 

1580 
1581 
1582 
1.583 
1584 

1585 
1586 

1.587 

1588 

Oct.     1 

Oct.      1 
Oct.     2 
Oct.     2 

Oct.      3 

C.  Garcia 

Bank,      Albu- 
querque. 
Do 

N.  Liicero 

Do. 

A.  (his  X  mark) 
Sarabia. 

B.  Pctraza 

N.  Lucero 

Do 

Do. 

7.05 
11.40 
22. 20 

John  Hegan 

Do. 

144 

138 

7.20 
6.90 

J.  N.  Oiistot 

Oct.  11.. 

Oct.  n.. 

Oct.  11.. 
Oct.  11.. 
Oct.  11.. 
Oct.  11.. 
Oct.  11.. 
Oct.  11.. 

Oct.  11.. 
Oct.    11 
Oct.    11 
Oct.    11 

Oct.    11 
Oct.    11 
Oct.    11 
Oct.    11 
Oct.   11 

Oct.      11 
Oct.      11 

Oct.      11 

Oct.      11 

Do. 

R.  Cassldv 

Do. 

A.  (his  X  mark) 
Martinez. 

J.   (his  X  mark) 
Grijalba. 

Francisco  San- 
chez. 

Ramon  Lopez 

Chas.Mehan 

Chas.  Mehan 

Do. 

' 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

12 

266 

188 

.60 
13.30 

6.90 

.60 
16.00 

10. 50 

A.  (his  X  mark) 

Garcia. 
P.  (his  X  mark) 

Torres. 

J.  J.  Gonzales 

Chas.Mehan 

B.Williams 

Do. 
Do. 

Do. 

L.   (his  X  mark) 

Arias. 
J.   (his  X  mark) 

Enriques. 
A.  S.  Abevta 

M.  Barela 

M.Barela 

Do. 

Do. 

76 

12 

12 

3.80 

.60 
.60 

4.40 

.60 

.60 

2.70 

2.70 

2.30 

Do. 

D.   (his  X  mark) 

Lopez. 
J.    (his  X  mark) 

Provensio. 

A.  S.  Abeyto.... 
L.  Burmudes  . . . 

Do. 
Do. 
Do. 

S.   (his  X   mark) 

Benevides. 
Luz  Rios 

D.  B.  Morris,  jr. 

Do. 

46| 

Do. 

Jose  (his  X  mark) 

Trujillo. 
J.   (liis  X   mark) 

Armijo. 

B.Williams 

M.Barela 

Do. 

138 
138 
38 

6.90 
6.90 
1.90 

16. 20 
14. 10 
2.20 

Do. 
Do. 

C.  Lucero 

Do. 

266 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Pay  roll  of  petit  jurors   in  uttemhmce  at  tlie  United  Statex  tliird  judicial  di'<trict  court 

Las  Cruces 


Residence. 

Dates  for  which 
paid  (attend- 
ance). 

OS 

6 

5 

s 

a 

Name. 

6 
o 
C 

1 

5 

Post-office. 

Pedro  Montova 

Miles. 

Hatch 

Oct.  2, 3, 4,  .5, 6, 7, 8, 
9,10,11. 

Oct.  2, 3, 4,  .5, 6, 8, 9, 
10,11. 

10 
9 

«20.00 
18.00 

2 

SO.  30 

Mesilla  Park 

Total 

20ti 

522 

373 

5.5.95 

District  of  New  Mexico,  ss: 

I,  James  P.  Mitchell,  clerk  of  the  third  judicial  district  court  of  the  third  district 
ordered  by  the  court  to  pay  the  several above  named  the  amounts  set  opposite 

[seal.] 

(Indorsed:)     Triplicate.     Form  No.  29.     Voucher  No.  2.     District  of  New  Mex- 
held   at  Las  Cruces,    N.    3Iex.,    during  the  quarter  ending    December  31,    1900. 


Amended 

Pay  roll  of  petit  jurors  in  attendance  at  the  United  States  fourth  judicial  district  court 

]'egas, 

We,  the  undersigned,  do  hereby  acknowledge  to  have  received  of  C.  M.  Foraker, 
respective  names,  in  full,  for  the  services  specified. 


Residence  (post-office). 

Dates  for  which  paid. 

No.  of 

Attendance. 

Travel. 

days.  ^"-"""•'• 

Chas  U  Strong 

Nov.  12 

2 

3 

S6.00 

Dlstrict  of  New  Mexico,  ss: 

I,  Secundino  Romero,  clerk  of  the  fourth  judicial  district  court  of  the  district  of 
ordered  by  the  court  to  pay  the  above  named  the  amount  set  opposite  his  name,  aa 

[seal.] 

(Indorsed:)   Triialicate.     Form  No.  29.     Voucher  No.  7.     District  of  New  ^lexico. 

Las  Vegas,  N.  Mex.,  during  the  quarter 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


267 


for  (he  didrivt  of  Xeiv  Mexico  dnrlmj  the  quarter  eudiinj  Deeemher  31,  1900,  sitliii'j  <U 
X.  Me.v. — Continued. 


c 

o 
in 
"§ 

a 

5 
o 
S 

? 
^ 

a 

Signature.s  of 
payee.s. 

Witnesses  to 
marks. 

Paid  by  check. 

Total  mile 
paid. 

o 

2 

o 

No. 

Date. 

Name  of  deposi- 
tory. 

38 
6 

81.901    $2.20 

«22. 20 

Pedro  Montova . . . 

1.589 
1590 

Oct.     11 
Oct.     11 

1              1 
.30j        .30       18.30 

P.  (his  X  mark) 
Gonzales. 

Fred.  Hall 

Bank,      Albu- 
querque. 
Do. 

1,738 

86.90   172.85 

677. 35 
2.50 

674.85 

of  New  Mexico,  do  hereby  certify  that  the  United  States  marshal  for  said  district  was 
their  names,  as  appears  from  the  records  of  the  court. 

(Signed)  James  P.  Mitchell,  Clerk, 

By  JoHX  Lejiox,  Depntij. 

ico.     Pay  roll  of  petit  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the  third  judicial  district  court, 
$677.35— S2.o0=$674.85. 


Form  No.  29. 

for  the  district  of  Xeic  Mexico  during  the  c/uarter  ending  December  81,  1900,  siitinq  at  Las 
N.  Mex. 

United  States  marshal  for  the  district  of  New  Mexico,  the  sums  set  opposite  our 


Miles,  at 

1 
.     „„„.    Miles,  at 

Total 

mileage 

paid. 

Total 
amount. 

Signature.s  of  payees. 

Paid  by  check. 

15cts.    ^"^"""i- 1    Sets,     i^"^"""-^- 

1                  1                I 

No. 

Date. 

56 

«8. 90             42 

12.10 

«10.50 

«16.50 

Chas.  U.  Strong 

1647 

Nov.  16 

New  Mexico,  do  hereby  certify  that  the  United  States  marshal  for  said  district  was 
appears  from  the  records  of  the  court. 

(Signed)  Secundixo  Romero,  Clerk. 

Pay  roll  of  petit  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the  fourth  judicial  district  court  held  at 
ending  December  31,  1900.     $16.50. 


268 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Amended 

Pwi  roll  of  petit  jnrn  In  attendance  at  the   United  States  fiftli  judicial  district  court  for 

Socorro, 

We,  the  undersigned,  do  hereby  acknowledge  to  have  received  of  C.  M.  Fo raker, 
our  respective  names,  in  full,  for  the  services  specified. 


Name. 


S.A.Nelson. 


Martin  Chaves 
H.  R.  Morrow . 


D.  W.  Rnnyon  . . 
J.R.CuhvelL... 


J.  H.  Clements. 


Jose  M.Montoya 
Abran  Contreras 
Nathan  Hall  .... 


Re.sidence. 


Roswell.N.M. 


Picacho.N.M. 
Roswell,  N.M. 


Carsbad,  N.  M.,  30  mi. 

NE. 
Roswell.N.M 


Carlsbad,  N.M,  60  m.W 

San  Antonio,  N.M... 

La  Joya,  N.  M 

Magdalena,  N.M 


Paul  Fraissuit . 


Donaciana  Padilla  . . 
William  Jones 


Polvadera,  N.  Ill 

Socorro,  N.  M,  2  m.  N. 
Frisco,  N.M 


Simon  Silva Sabinal,  2  m.  N 

Emil  Kiehne Frisco, N.M 


Estevan  Chavez Polvadera,  N.  M 


Nestor  Abeytia . . 
Alfredo  Gallegos 
Jose  E.  Montano. 


Charles  Tobaccho 

Esau  Baca 

C.Torres 


Ed.  Scoggins. 
J.  N.  Wood . . . 


I.  B.  Rose 


Socorro, N.M  ... 
Socorro,  N.  M  ... 
Polvadero,  N.  M 


Socorro,  N.M 

Socorro, N.M. ,3mi.  N 
Socorro,  N.  M.,  3mi.  N 

Otis,  N.M 


Carlsbad,   N.   M.,    60 
mi.  VV. 

Roswell.N.M 


Rito  Baca Socorro,  N.  M  . 

Leandro  Baca  y  S {  Lemitar,  N.  M 


Abran  Torres \  Socorro, N.M 

Filomeno  Griego I  Lincoln. N.M 


A.  Gudbrausen Socorro,  N.M... 


Dates  of  attendance. 


No. 
days. 


Miles 
by  stage 

Per     o^^P" 
diem 


paid. 


Nov.  12  (6  days'  travel) 

Nov.  12  fSdav.s'  travel) 
Nov.   12-13   (6    days' 

travel) 
Nov.    12-13    (7   days' 

travel). 
Nov.  12.  13,  14.  15.  16, 

17.  18.   19    (6  days' 

travel ) . 
Nov.  12,  13,  14.  1.5.  16. 

17,   18.  19  (8  days' 

travel). 
Nov.  12,  13,  14,  15,  16, 

17,  IS.  19. 
Nov.  12.  13.  14.  15,  16. 

17,  18.  19. 
Nov.  12,  13,  14,  15,  16, 

17,   18,   19   (1  day's 

travel). 
Nov.  12,  13,  14,  15,  16. 

17.  18.  19. 
Nov.13.14.15.16.17.19. 
Nov.  12.  13,  14.  15,  16, 

17,   IS,   19  (8  days' 

travel ) . 
Nov.  12.  13,  14.  1.5.  16, 

17,  18,  19. 
Nov.  12,  13,  14,  15.  16, 

17,  18.   19  (8  days' 
travel ) . 

Nov.  13.  14,  15,  16,  17, 

18,  19. 
Nov.13,14,15,16,17.18. 
Nov.13.14,15,16,17,18. 
Nov.  13.  14,  15,  16,  17, 

18,19. 
Nov.13,14,1.5,16,17,19. 
Nov.13, 14, 15. 16.17,19. 
Nov.13,14.15.16.17,19. 

Nov.  12.  13,  14.  15.  16, 

17, 18, 19. 
Nov.  12.  13.  14.  15.  16. 

17,   18,   19  (8  days' 

travel). 
Nov.  12,  13.  14.  15.  16, 

17,   18.  19  (6  days' 

travel). 
Nov.13. 14. 15, 16, 17. 19. 
Nov.  13.  14,  15.  16.  17, 

18, 19. 
Nov.13, 14. 15. 16. 17. 19. 
Nov.  12.  13,  14.  15.  16, 

17,   18.    19   (6    days' 

travel). 
Nov.  13 


261 


vate 
convey 
ance, 
at  15 
cents. 


32 


320 
60 


120 


4 
240 


4 
240 


Amount. 


District  of  New  JNIe.xico,  .s.s.- 

I,  Jno.  E.  Griffith,  clerk  of  the  fifth  judicial  district  court  of  the  district  of  New 
by  the  court  to  pay  the  several  jurors  above  named  the  amounts  set  opposite  their 

[seal.] 

(Indorsed:)     Form  No.  29.     Voucher  No.  4.     District  of  New  Mexico.     Pay  roll 
during  the  quarter  ending  December  31,  1900.     $1,170.05. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


269 


Form  No.  29. 

Ilw  dlxtrld  of  Xt'iu  Mexico  duriiKj  the  quarter  endiru/   Dec  SI,  1901,  fitting  at 

N.  M. 

United  States  marnhal  for  the district  of  New  ]\Iexico,  the  sums  set  opposite 


Miles 

by  ; 

rail    Amount, 
at  5 
cents. 


1,112 

22 
1,112 

962 

1,112 


5.5 


950 
962 

1,112 


8,689 


$55. 60 

1.10 
55. 60 

48.10 

56.60 

48.10 

1.10 
2.40 
2.75 

.70 


Total 
mile- 
age 
paid. 


3.50 
2.75 


$55.  60 

49.10 
.55.  60 

.57. 10 

56. 60 

66. 10 

1.10 
2.40 
2.  75 

1.90 

.60 
38.75 

4.10 
38.  75 

1.90 


47.50 
48.10 


434. 45 


.90 
.90 


47.50 
66.10 


Total 
paid. 


$69. 60 

67.10 
71. 60 

75. 10 

83.60 

98.10 

17.10 
18.40 
20.  75 

15. 90 

12.60 
68.75 

20. 10 
68. 75 


12.00 
12.  00 
15.90 

12. 00 
12. 90 
12. 90 

75. 50 

98.10 


.70 
'43.'i6' 


Signature. 


S.A.Nelson. 


Martin  Chaves. 
H.R.Morrow.. 


D.  W. Runyan 
J.R.Culwell.. 


J.  H.Clements. 


Jose  M.  Montoya. 
Abran  Contreras. 
Nathan  Hall 


Paul  Fraissmt , 


Donaciano  Padilla 
William  Jones . 


Simon  Silva  . . 
Emil  Kiehne . 


Estevan  Chavez 


Nestor  Abeytia  . . . 
Alfredo  Gailegos  . 
Jose  E.  Montoya . . 

Charles  Tabachi. , 

Esau  Baca 

C.  (his  X  mark) 

Torres. 
Ed  Scoggin 


J.H.Wood. 


Witness  to 
mark. 


.55. 60        S3.  60 

12.00 

14.70 


I  I.  B.  Rose 


12.00 
71.10 


2.00 


648.05   1,170.05 


RitoBaca , 

Leandro  Bacay  S. 


Abran  Torres 

Filomeno  Griego 


A.  Gudbrausen 


Ed  Saygin . 


Paid  by  check. 


No.     Dated. 


807 

308 
311 

313 

351 

352 

353 
354 
355 

356 

357 
358 

359 
360 


362 
363 
364 

365 
366 
367 

368 

369 

370 


371 
372 


373 
374 


Name  of  depo-s- 
itory. 


Nov.  12 

....do... 
Nov.  13 

...do... 

Nov.  19 

...do... 

....do... 
....do... 

....do... 

I 

do  ...j 

1 
....do... 
....do... 

....do... 
....do... 

....do... 

....do... 
....do... 
....do... 

....do... 

....do... 

...do... 

...do... 

...do... 

....do... 


...do.. 
...do... 


...do.. 
...do.. 


350  i  Nov.  16 


Fir.st  Nat'l  Bank, 
Albuquerque. 
Do. 
Do. 

Do. 

Do. 


Do. 

Do. 
Do. 
Do. 

Do. 

Do. 
Do. 

Do. 
Do. 


Do. 
Do. 
Do. 

Do. 
Do. 
Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 


Do. 
Do. 


Do. 
Do. 


Do. 


Mexico,  do  hereby  certify  that  the  United  States  marshal  for  said  district  was  ordered 
names,  as  appears  from  the  records  of  the  court. 

Jxo.  E.  Griffith,  Clerk. 

of  petit  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the  fifth  judicial  district  court,  held  at  Socorro,  N.  M. 


270 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Pai/  roll  ofpettf  laron^  In  atlemlann'  at  the  United  St(ttes  second  judicial  district  for  the 

querque, 

We,  the  undersigned,  do  hereby  acknowledge  to  have  received  of  C.  M.  Foraker, 
our  respective  names,  in  full,  for  the  services  specified. 


Name. 


Ignacio  Lobato 

P.  Montoya 

Anastasio  Montoya 

Miguel  Lucero 

Telesfor  Garcia 

J.  A.  Turrietta 

Placido  Salazar 

Maximo  Chavez . . . 

C.  Mestas 

Joiin  Mann 

David  Keleher 

Victor  Tafaya 

C.  Lucero 


Residence. 


County. 


Bernal- 
illo. 


fiS 


Miles. 
2 


Miguel  Baca. 
Julian  Mora . 


Prudencia  Apodaca 
J.  A.  Montoya. .. 
Mauricio  Ortiz.. 


Jose   Andres    Na- 

vaijo. 
Taribio  Armijo... 


Juan  R.  Duran  . . . 
Francisco  Nuanes 
Leandro  Cervantes 
Pedro  Martin . . . 


Total 


N. 


SE. 


SE. 

N. 


Post-oftice. 


Bernalillo  . 

Perea 

Tome 

Alameda  ... 
Cabezon . 
Pajarito  . 
Old  Albuq.. 

.\lbuq 

Cabezon . . . 
Old  Albuq. 

Albuq  

Corrales  . . . 
Grants 


Dates  for  which  paid. 


Attendance. 


Tome 

Albuquer- 
que. 

Grants 


Bernalillo  . 

!  PenaBlanca 

Perea 

Corrales 

Old  Albu- 
querque. 

Albu  q  u  e  r- 
que. 

Albu  quer- 
que. 

Pajarito 


rAprill,2,3,4,.5,\ 
\    6,8,9,10.  / 

(Apr.  1,2, 3,4,5,6,1 
\    8,9,10.  ( 

/Apr.  1,2, 3, 4,5,6, 1 
I    8,9,10,  / 

[April  1,2,3,4,5,1 
\    6, 8, 9. 10.  j" 

/.\pril  1,2,3,4,5,1 
\    6,8,9,10.  j 

/April  1,2,3,4,5,1 
1     6,8,9,10.  / 

f  April  1,2,3,4,5,\ 
\  6,8,9,10. 
/April  1,2, 3, 4,. 5,1 
■\     6,  S,  9, 10.  / 

f  April  1,2,3,4,5.\ 
\    6,8,9,10. 
/April  1,2,3,4,5, 
t    6,8,9,10 
)  April  1,2,3,4,5,1 
\    6, 8, 9, 10. 
/April  1,2,3,4,5,1 
1     6,8,9,10.  / 

/April  1,2,3,4,5,1 
1  6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11.  f 
/April  1,2,3,4,5,1 
t  6,7.8,9,10,11./ 
/April  1,2,3,4,5,1 
[  6,7,8,9,10,11./ 
/April  1,2,3,4,5,1 
t    6,7,8,9,10,11./ 

April  1,2,3,4,6, 

6,7,8,9,10,11. 
April  1,2,3,4,-5, 

6,7,8,9,10,11. 
April  1,2,3,4,5, 

6,7,8,9,10,11. 
April  1,2,3,4,-5, 

6,7,8,9,10,11. 
April  1,2,3,4,5, 

6,7,8,9,10,11. 
April  1,2,3,4,5, 

6,7,8.9,10,11. 
April  1,2,3,4,5, 

6,7,8,9,10,11. 
April  1,2,3,4,5, 

6,7,8,9,10,11. 


$18. 00 

18.00 
18.00 
18.00 
18.00 
18.00 
18.00 
18.00 
18.00 
18.00 
18.00 
18.00 
22.00 
22.00 
22.00 
22.00 
22. 00 
22.00 
22.00 
22.00 
22.00 
22. 00 
22.00 
22. 00 


480. 00 


District  of  New  Mexico,  ss: 

I,  Harry  P.  Owen,  clerk  of  the  district  court  of  the  2nd  district  of  New  Mexico, 
the  court  to  pay  the  several  petit  jurors  above  named  the  amounts  set  opposite  their 


(Indorsed:)  Form  No.  29.     Voucher  No.  1.     District  of  New  Mexico.     Pay  roll 
N.  M.,  during  the  quarter  ending  June  30,  1901.     $480. 


K.  M. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  271 

d'lSfrki  of  Nc'ii'  Mexico  during  the  qumicr  oidint/  June  30,  1901,  siltiiuj  at  Allm- 


United  States  marshal  for  the district  of  New  Mexico,  tlie  sums  set  opposite 


Q'cs 

o3  (U 


©a 


$18. 00 


18.00 


Signatures  of  payees. 


Witnesses  to 
marks. 


Paid  by  check. 


No.       Date.     iNameofdepository. 


Ignacio  Loliato. 


P.  Montova . 


18. 00'  Anastacio  Montoya 

ie  nn /Miguel  (hisxmark)  !  Anastacio  Mon- 
^"•""jt    Lucero.  |      toya. 

18.00     Tel esf or  Garcia 

iu  nn  IfJ-  A.  (his  X  mark) 
ib.UO  i-^    Turrietta. 

18.  OOi  Placido  Salazar  .... 


jPlacidoSalazar.'i 


18.00:  C. (his  X  mark)  Mes- 

tas. 
18. 00   John  Mann 


18. 00  David  Keleher  , 


18.  OO;  Victor  (his  x  mark) 
Tafaya. 
C.  Lucero , 


22. 00 
22.00 
22.00 
22.00 
22. 00 
22. 00 
22. 00 
22. 00 
22.00 
22. 00 
22. 00 
22.00 


480. 00 


Miguel  Baca. 


Julian  (his  x  mark) 

Mora. 
Prudencia    (his    x 

mark )  Apodaca. 
J.  A.  Montoya 


Mauricio  Ortiz. 


Jose    Andres    Ma- 

vaijo. 
Taribio  Armijo 

Juan  R.  Duran 

Francisco  Nuanes  .. 

Leandro  Cervantes  . 

Pedro  Martin 


J.  L.  La  Driert 


J.  H.Bramlett. 


M.  G.  Armijo.. 
M.  G.  Armijo.. 


2064 
2122 

2073 
2128 
207B 
2124 
2070 
212.=) 
206.^■ 
212(i 
2071 
2127 
2081 
2128 
2072 
2129 
20ti8 
2130 
2083' 
2131 
207.=) 
2132 
2062 
2133' 
2079 
2141 
2077 
2142 
2084 
2143 
2078 
2144 

2066 
2145 
2067 
2146 
2062 
2147 
2069 
2148 
2080 
2149 
2074 
21.50 
2082' 
21.511 
20851 
2152 


1901. 

Apr.  1 
Apr.  10 

Apr.  1 
Apr.  10 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  10 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  10 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  10 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  10 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  10 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  10 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  10 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  10 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  10 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  10 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  11 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  11 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  11 
Apr.  1 
Apr.  11 

Apr.  1 

Apr.  11 

Apr.  1 

Apr.  11 

Apr.  1 

Apr.  11 

Apr.  1 

Apr.  11 

Apr.  1 

Apr.  11 

Apr.  1 

Apr.  11 

Apr.  1 

Apr.  11 

Apr.  1 

Apr.  11 


j] First  National 
j>  Bank,  Albuquer- 
I     que. 

I        DO. 


Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 

Do. 


•  Do. 
[  Do. 
}  Do. 
}  Do. 
]-  Do. 
I        Do. 

\        Do. 

\First  Nat'l  Bank, 

J  Albuquerque. 


do  hereby  certify  that  the  United  States  marshal  for  said  district  was  ordered  by 
names,  as  appears  from  the  records  of  the  court. 

Hakry  p.  Owen,  Ckrl:. 


of  petit  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the  second  jud.  dist.  court,  held  at  Albuquerque, 


272 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Amended 

Pay  roll  of  petit  jurors  in  attenckuice  at  tJie  United  States  fourth  judicial 

quarter  ending  June  SO,  1901, 

We,  the  undersigned,  do  hereby  acknowledge  to  have  received  of  C.  M.  Foraker, 
our  respective  names,  in  full,  for  the  services  specified. 


Name. 


E.  R.  Fullenwider 


F.  O.  Blood 
R.  Rovbal  . 


John  Bell 

M.  Vigil 

Wm.Howenfield 

M.  Tafoya 

A. Sena  

S.  Espinosa 

L.  Garcia 

F.Gonzales 

L.  M.  Segundo  . . . 

C.  Lucero 

L.  Quintano    

R.B.Rice 

C.Romero 

A.  Arguello 

M.Segura  

F.Nieto 

M.Floros 

S.  Romero 

A.  Duran 

R.  L.  y  Apodaca.. 


Residence. 


E... 


Post-office. 


Dates  for  which  paid. 


Attendance. 


Raton May  13,  H 


Las  Vegas 

Wagonmound 


Raton 

Mora 

Buell-Raton . . 

Mora 

Liberty 

Mora 

Pelos 

Guronomo 

Chaperito 

Rociada 

Rociada 

Las  Vegas 

Las  Vegas 

Las  Vegas  — 
Las  Vegas 


Piierto    de 

Luna. 
Las  Vegas  

Puerto    de 

Luna. 
Cimarron 


Chaperito 


May  14 

May  13,  14,  1.5, 

Hi,  17, 18. 
Mav   13,  14,  1.5, 

16,17,18. 
May   13,  14,  15, 

16,17,18. 
May  13, 14, 15, 16, 

17,18. 
Mav  13, 14, 15, 16, 

17, 18. 
May  13, 14, 15, 16, 

17, 18. 
May  13, 14, 15, 16, 

17,18. 
Mav  13, 14, 15, 16, 

17, 18. 
Mav  13, 14, 15, 16, 

17,18. 
May  13, 14, 15, 16, 

17, 18. 
May  13, 14, 15, 16, 

17, 18. 
May  13, 14, 15, 16, 

17,18. 
May  14, 1.5, 16, 17, 

18. 
May  14, 15, 16, 17, 

18. 
Mav  14, 15, 16, 17, 

18. 
Mav  14, 15, 16, 17, 

18. 
Mav  13, 14, 15, 16, 

17,18. 
Mav  14, 15, 16, 17, 

18. 
May  13, 14, 1.5, 16, 

17, 18. 
May  13, 14, 15, 16, 

17,18. 
Mav  13, 14, 15, 16, 

it,  18. 


10 


$6.00 

2.00 
14.00 

7  14.00 
14.00 
16.00 
14.00 
20. 00 
14.00 
16.00 
14.00 
14.00 

7  14. 00 
14.00 
10.00 
10.00 
10.00 
10.00 
20. 00 
10.00 
20.00 
20.00 
14.00 


«9.00 
6.60 
9.00 

34. 05 
9.00 
3.75 
4.50 
9.00 
7.50 
7.50 


25. 20 


25. 20 

6.60 
9.00 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL. 


273 


Form  No.  29. 

district  coitrtfor  the  — 
sitting  at  Las<  Vec/as,  N.  Mcx 

United  States  luaryhal  for  the 


(listricl  of  New  Mexico   dii.rivg  the 

—  (Ustrict  of  New  Mexico,  the  sums  set  opposite 


o 

% 

11 
0 

1 
B 

0 

Signatures  fil' 
payee.s. 

Witnesses  to 
marks. 

Paid  by  check. 

Num- 
ber. 

Date. 

Name  of  deposi- 
tory. 

222 

ijll.  10 



117. 10 

2.00 
18. 60 

25. 20 

23. 00 

33.80 

23.00 

.54. 15 

23.00 

25.25 

18.60 

23. 00 

21.  .50 

21. 50 

10.00 

10.00 

10.00 

10.00 

45. 30 

10.00 

45.30 

33. 80 

23.00 

76 

77 
136 

1.59 

May   14 

....do... 

May  18 

....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 
....do... 

First    National 

F.  0.  Blood 

Bank,      Albu- 
querque. 
Do. 

92 
224 

4.60 
11.20 

«11.20 
9.00 

17.  SO 
9.00 

34.15 
9.00 
9.25 
4.60 
9.00 
7.50 

R.  Rovbal 

Do. 

John  Bell 

Do. 

M.  Vigil 

160 

16] 

Do. 

224 

11.20 

Wm.  Honevfield  . 

Do. 

M.    (his    X    mark) 

Tafoya. 
A. Sena          

E.  P. Chapman.. 

162 
163 
164 
165 
166 
167 
168 
169 
170 
171 
172 
173 
174 
175 
176 
177 
178 

Do. 

2 

.10 

Do. 

Do. 

110 
2 

5.50 
.10 

Do. 

Do. 

L.     Montane     S  e  - 

gundo. 
C.  (his X mark)  Lu- 

eero. 

Do. 

Per  R.B.Rice... 

Do. 

7  50 

Do. 

R.B.Rice 

Do. 

Do. 

A.  Arguello 

Do. 

M.  Segura 

Do. 

2 

.10 

25.30 

F  Nieto         

Do. 

M.  Flores 

Do. 

2 
144 

.10 

7.20 

25. 30 
13.80 
9.00 

Do. 

Do. 

R.  L.  V  Apodaca 

Do. 

H    S   B- 


-18 


274 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Amended 

Pdi/  roll  of  pritt  jin-ors  l)i  uttendanee  at  the  United  States  fourth  judicial  district  court  for 

Vegas, 

We,  the  undersigned,  do  hereby  acknowledge  to  have  received  of  C.  M.  Foraker, 
our  respective  names,  in  full,  for  tj.ie  services  specified. 


Name. 

Residence. 

Date  of  attendance. 

1 

No.      Per  diem 
days.       paid. 

Miles  by 
stage  or 
private 
convey- 
ance, atl5 
cents. 

o 

a 
< 

B.  C.  Pittenger 

E.  Las  Vegas 

May  14,15,16,17,18 

5           10.00 

District  of  New  Mexico,  .s^.- 

I, ,  clerk  of  the  fourth  judicial  district  court  of  the 


district 


was  ordered  by  the  court  to  pay  the  several  petit  jurors  above  named  the  amounts 


(Indorsed:)     Form  No.  29.     Voucher  No.  5.     District  of  New  Mexico.     Payroll 
Vegas,  N.  M.,  during  the  quarter  ending  Jmie  30,  1901. 


Amended 

Pay  roll  of  })et it  jm-ors  in  attendance  at  the  United  Statei^  fourth  judicial  district  court  for 

Vegas, 

We,  the  undersigned,  do  hereby  acknowledge  to  have  received  of  C.  M.  Foraker, 
our  respective  names,  in  full,  for  the  services  specified. 


Residence. 

Dates  for  which 
paid. 

o 
6 
z; 

3 
c 

< 

i 

a 
o 

a 

Name. 

County. 

a; 

c     Direc- 

$      tion. 

Post-nfflce. 

Attendance. 

> 

Las  Vegas, 

N.  M. 
Raton  N.  M.. 

May  13.  14, 

15,16,17,18. 

do 

6 

8 

12.00 
16.00 

Fred  Bruegge- 
man. 

! 

Total 

.     

14 

28.00 



District  of  New  ]Me.xico,  .s.s.- 

I,  Secundino  Komero,  clerk  of  the  fourth  judicial  district  court  of  the 


dis- 


trict was  ordered  by  the  court  to  pay  the  several  ]urors  above  named  the  amounts 


(Indorsed:)  Form   No.  29.     Voucher  No.  6.     District  of  New  Mex.     Payroll  of 
quarter  ending  June  30,  1901.     139.20. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


275 


Form  No.  29. 

the (UMricf  of  New  Mexico  durinq  the  quarter  end'mq  June  30,  1901,  siltiiK)  at  fjcis 

N.  M. 

United  States  marshal  for  the district  of  New  IVlexico,  the  sums  set  opposite 


Miles 

by 

rail, 

at  5 

cents. 

c 
o 
S 
< 

Total 
mile- 
age 
paid. 

'I 

o 

Paid  by  check. 

Signature. 

Witne.ss  to  mark. 

No. 

T^  f   .        Name  of  deposi- 

2 

.10 

.10 

10.10 

B.  C.  Pittinger 

182 

May  18 

Bank.Albuquer- 
que. 

of  New  Mexico,  do  hereby  certif}'^  that  the  United  States  marshal  for  said  district 
set  oi^posite  their  names,  as  appears  from  the  records  of  the  court. 

Secundino  Romero,  Clerk. 

of  petit  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the   fourth   judicial  district  court   held  at  Las 


Form  No.  29. 

the district  of  New  Mexico  during  the  quarter  ending  June  SO,  1901,  fitting  at  La!< 

N.  M. 

United  States  marshal  for  the district  of  New  Mexico,  the  sums  set  opposite 


i2 

1 
Amount. 

o 

n 

O 

a 

D 

o 
3 

ci 

"3 

Signatures  of 
payees. 

Witnesses  to 
marks. 

Paid  by  check. 

No. 

Date. 

Name  of  deposi- 
tory. 

12.00 
27.  20 

2214 
2223 

June  14 
June  15 

First  Nat'l  Bank, 

22-4 

11.20 

11.20 

Fred  Brueggeman. 

Albuquerque. 

Do 

1 

224 

11.20   11 -'^0 

39.20 

trict  of  New  Mexico,  do  hereby  certify  that  the  United  States  marshal  for  said  dis- 
set  opposite  their  names,  as  appears  from  the  records  of  the  court. 

Secundino  Romero,  Clerk. 

petit  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the  4th  jud.  dist.  court,  held  at  Las  Vegas  during  the 


276 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Amended 

Pay  roll  of  grand  jurors  In  attendance  at  the  United  States  dktricf  court  for  the  first  district 

We,  the  undersigned,  do  hereby  acknowledge  to  have  received  of  C.  M.  Foraker, 
respective  names,  in  full,  for  the  services  specified. 


H.  S.  Kaune  , 


Nieanor  Baca 

Francisco     Gon- 
zales y  Baca. 
Agustin"  Martinez 

Marcus  Eldodt... 

Demetrio  Rivera. 

Ignacio  Cordova . 

J.E.Manzanares. 

Camilo  Varos 

Salvador  Valdez . 

Jose     Ignacio 

Arellano. 
Federico  Chavez . 


Filadelflo    Mon- 
tano. 

A.  N.  Harp 


Residence. 


Countv. 


Francisco     Rav- 

bal. 
Juan     Bautista 

Ortega. 

William  White... 
Geo.  Brocklesbv  . 


George  N.  Frotz- 
mann. 


Miguel  Martinez. 


Manuel  Sanchez . 

Esquipulo      de 
Aguerro. 


Santa  Fe 


Santa  Fe  . . . 
Santa  Fe  . . . 
Rio  Arriba  . 
Santa  Fe  . . . 
Rio  Arriba  . 
Rio  Arriba  . 


San  Juan . 


Tao.s 

Taos 

Taos 

Rio  Arriba.. 

do 

Santa  Fe 

Toas 

do 


San  Juan . 
Taos 


Santa  Fe. 


Rio  Arriba. 


do... 

Santa  Fe. 


Direc- 
tion. 


E. 

N. 


SE. 


NW. 


SW. 


Post-office. 


Santa  Fe  . . . 


Santa  Fe  . . 
Santa  Fe  .. 
Park  View 
Santa  Fe  .. 
Vallecitos  . 
Cordova . . . 

Largo 

Taos 

Ojo  Caliente 

Dixon  

Canjilon... 

Pierra  Am- 

arillo. 

San  Pedro . 
Penasco  . . . 
do 


Jewett 

Red  River . 


1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9, 
10,11,12,13 


San  Pedro, 
(mileage 
one  way 
only) . 

C  h  a  m  i  t  a , 
(mileage 
one  way 
only). 

Tampas  . . . 

Santa  Fe.. . 


Dates  for  which  paid. 


-Attendance.' 


1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9, 

10,11,12,13 
1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9, 

10,11,12,13 
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 

9,10,11,12,13 
2, 3,  4,  5,  6,  8,  9, 

10,11,12,13 
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 

9, 10,  li;  12, 13 
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 

9,10,11,12,13, 

1,2, 3, 4,  .5, 0,7,8, 
9,10,11,12,13 

2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 

9,10,11,12.13 
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 

9, 10, 11, 12, 13 
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 

9,10,11,12,13. 
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 

9,10,11,12,13. 

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 
9,10,11,12,13. 

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 
9,10,11,12,13. 

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 
9,10,11,12,13. 

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 
9,10,11,12,13. 

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 
9, 10, 11, 12, 13. 

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 
9, 10, 11, 12, 13. 

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8, 
9,10,11,12,13. 


2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, 
10, 11, 12, 13. 


2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 
10,11,12,13. 


/Aug.  30-31 
tSept.14-15 


Travel. 


/Aug.  30-31 

tSept.      14 

[Aug.       31 

tSept.      14 

Aug.29,30, 

31,  Sept. 

14, 16, 16 

(Aug.  30-31 

\Sept.      14 

(Aug.      31 

\Sept.      14 

Aug.     31, 

Sept.  14. 

Aug.    30, 

31,  Sept. 

14, 15. 

Aug.     30, 

31,  Sept. 

14,15. 

Aug.     31, 

Sept.  14. 

Aug.     31, 

Sept.  14. 

Aug.     31, 

Sept.  14. 

fAug.     28, 

I     29,30,31, 

■jSept.    14, 

1.5,16,17. 

Aug.29,30, 

31,  Sept. 

14, 15. 

Aug.     31, 

Sept.  14. 


Sept.     14. 
Sept.    14. 


12  36.00 


12   36.00.... 
12   36.00.... 


17!  51.00 
11!  33.00 


48.00 
45.00 

57.00 


45.00 
45.00 


17'  51.00 


51.00 


45.00 
45.00 
45.00 
6.00 
57.00 
54.001  126 


52 


42 
30 
40 

il60 


45. 00     44 


13    39.00,      3 


13   39.00,     24 
1      3. 00  . . . 


a  All  dates  in  attendance  column  are  month  of  September,  year  1902. 

District  of  New  Mexico,  .s.s.- 

I,  A.  M.  Bergere,  clerk  of  the  district  court  of  the  first  district  of  New  Mexico,  do 
court  to  pay  the  several  grand  jurors  above  named  the  amounts  set  opposite  their 


(Indorsed:)  Form  No.  29.     Voucher  No.  1.     District  of  New  Nexico.     Pay  roll  of 
during  the  quarter  ending  September  30,  1902.     |1,283.25. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


277 


Form  No.  29. 

of  New  Mexico,  during  the  quarter  ending  September  SO,  1902,  sitting  nt  S(tnta  Fe,  N.  Mex. 
United  States  marshal  for  the  district  of  New  Mexico,  the  sums  set  opposite  our 


12.00 
4.20 

18.60 

9.30 
4.50 


18.90 


3'S 
^  p. 


36.00 


23. 25 


2.70   106 
9.90   378 


7.80 

6.30 
4.50 
6.00 

24. 00 
18.90 

6.60 

45 

3.60 


6.00 
3.40 

29.60 

5.80 
6.00 
5.30 
18.90 

18.90 


3.60 

106  5. 30 

106  5. 30 

592j  29. 60 

306j  15. 30 

72  3. 60 

38,  1.90 


2. 65 


18.00 
7.60 

48.20 

14.60 

10.50 

8.00 

28. 80 

26. 70 

9.90 
9.80 
11.30 

53.60 
34.20 

10. 20 
2. 35 
6.25 


Signatures  of 
payees. 


H.S.  Kanne 


Nicanor  Baca 


Francisco  Gonza. 

les  y  Baca. 
/Agustin     (his    x 
\    mark)  Martinez. 
Marcus  Eldodt  . . . 


Paid  by  check. 


Witnesses  to 
marks. 


No. 


Demetrio  Rivera  . 
Ygnacio  Cordova. 

J.E.  Manzanares  . 


Camilo  Varos 

Salvador  Valdes. 


00|  Jose  Ignacio  Arel- 
lano. 
80  Federico  Chavez 


.70   Filadelflo     Mon- 
I      tano. 


F.  Gonzales    y 
Baca. 


Date. 


59 


54.90;  A.N.  Harp 

54. 80   Francisco  Raybal . 

56. 30  Juan  Bautista  Or- 
tega. 


116. 60 

88.20 

.55. 20 


45.25 


William  White... | 

i 
George  Brockelsby 


George  N.  Proty- 
mann. 


Miguel  Martinez 


Manuel  Sanchez., 

Esquipulo   (his  x 

mark)  Aguerro 


Steplien  Easton 


Name  of 
Depository. 


Sept.  13 


...do... 
...do... 

...do... 
...do... 

...do... 
...do... 

...do... 

...do... 
...do... 
...do. 
...do. 


....do.. 

....do.. 

3.... do.. 

....do.. 

....do.. 
....do.. 

....do.. 
....do... 


79.... do. 
3 do  , 


All  checks  dated 
September, 
1902,  and 
drawn  on  the 
First  Natl. 
Bank  of  Albu- 
querque, N.  M. 
Do. 

Do. 

Do. 
Do. 

Do. 
Do. 

Do. 

Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 


Do. 
Do. 
Do. 

Do. 
Do. 

Do. 


Do. 
Do. 


hereby  certify  that  the  United  States  marshal  for  said  district  was  ordered  by  the 
names,  as  appears  from  the  records  of  the  court. 

[Seal.]  -'^-  ^^-  Bergere,  Clerk. 

grand  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the  first  district  court  held  at  Santa  Fe,  N.  M., 


278 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Amended 

Pujl  roll  of  petit  jurors  lit  attendance  at  the  United  States  district  court  for  tlie  frst  district 

We,  tlie  undersigned,  do  hereby  acknowledge  to  have  received  of  C.  M.  Foraker, 
respective  names,  in  full,  for  the  services  specified. 


Name. 


Residence. 


County. 


Chiis.  Closson  . . . 


John  Patterson... 
Manuel  Salazar . . 


Carlos  Archuleta. 

Serafino  Salazar. . 

Urban  Salazar 

Manuel  Pachcco . 

Antonio    Archu- 
leta. 

Lorenz  Basquez.. 
Nicolas  Archuleta 
David  Gallegos  . . 

T.A.Melson 

O.  W.  Alexander  . 

Bias  Sanchez 

Everette  Burns  . . 

L.T.Bryan 

Edgar  Andrews . . 
Ross  Griffiths  .... 
Lawrence  Welsh. 


SantaFe... 


Santa  Fe . 
Taos 


Rio  .\rriba.. 
Rio  .\rriba.. 
Rio  .Vrriba.. 
Rio  Arriba.. 
Rio  Arriba.. 

Taos 

Rio  Arriba. . 
Rio  Arriba.. 

Taos 

SantaFe.... 

Taos 

Taos 

Taos 

Santa  Fe  . . . 
Santa  Fe  . . . 
San  Juan ... 


William  E.  Len-  i  San  Juan  . 

festy.  I 


Wni.  T.  Williams  .    Santa  Fe  . . 

Allen  Young Santa  Fe  .. 

Grant Rivenberg.    SantaFe.. 


ms. 


Direc- 
tion. 


Post-office. 


SantaFe.... 

SantaFe 

Ranches  de 
Taos. 

Chamita 

Chamita 

Chamita 

Chamita 

Chamita 

Taos 

Elrito 

Elrito 

Red  River .. 

Cerrillos 

Penasco 

Red  River. 

Twining 

Cerrillos 

Cerrillos 

Bloomfield  . 

Aztec 


Dates  for  which  paid. 


Attendance.        Travel. 


Sept. ' 


Cerrillos 

Cerrillos 

Santa  Fe  ... 


Sept.  1 

Sept.  1,2,3.4, 
5,6,7.8,9,10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,  2,  3,  4, 
5,6,7.8,9,10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,  2,  3,  4, 
5, 6, 7.  S,  9, 10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,  2,  3,  4, 
5,6,7,8,9,10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,  2,  3,  4, 
5,6,7,8,9,10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,  2,  3,  4, 
5,6,7,8,9,10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,  2,  3,  4, 
5,6.7,8,9,10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,  2,  3,  4, 
5,6,7,8,9,10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,  2,  3,  4, 
5,6,7,8.9,10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,2,  3,4, 
5,6,7,8,9,10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,2,  3,  4, 
5,6,7,8,9,10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,  2.  3,  4, 
5,6,7,8,9,10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,  2.  3,  4, 
5,6,7,8,9,10, 
11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,  2,  3,  4, 
5,6,7,8,9,10, 
11,12,18. 

Sept.  1,  2.  3,  4, 
5,  6,  7,  8,  9, 
10,11,12,13. 

Sept.  1,  2,  3,  4, 
5.  6,  7,  8,  9, 
10, 11,  12, 13. 

Sept.  1.  2,  3,  4, 
5.  6.  7,  8,  9, 
10,11,12,13. 

Sept.  1.  2,  3,  4, 
5,  6,  7,  8,  9, 
10, 11, 12,  13. 

Sept.  1,  2,  3.  4, 
5,  6,  7,  8,  9, 
10, 11, 12, 13. 

Sept.  1,  2,  3,  4. 
5.  6,  7.  8,  9, 
10,11,12,13. 

Sept.  2,  3,  4.  5, 
6,8,9,10,11. 
12,  13. 


Aug.  31, 
Sept.  14. 

Aug.  31, 
Sept.  14. 

Aug.  31, 
Sept.  14. 

Aug.  31, 
Sept.  14. 

Aug.  31, 
Sept.  14. 

Aug.  31, 
Sept.  14. 

Aug.30,31, 
Sept.  14. 

Aug.30,31, 

Sept.  14. 

Aug.30,31, 
Sept.  14. 

Aug.29,30, 
31,  Sept. 
14, 15. 

Aug.  31, 
Sept.—. 

Aug.  31, 
Sept.  14. 

Aug.29,30, 

,31,  Sept. 

14, 15. 
Aug.30,31, 

Sept.  14, 

15. 
Aug.  31 . . . 


Aug.  31... 


Aug.   29, 

30,    31; 

Sept.  14, 

15,  16. 
.\ug.  29, 

30,    31: 

Sept.  14, 

15,  16. 
Aug.  31, 

Sept.  14. 

Aug.  31 . . . 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


279 


Form  No.  29. 

of  New  Mexico  during  the  quarter  ending  Heptemher  SO,  1902,  silting  at  Santa  Fe,  N.  Me.i . 

United  States  marshal  for  the  district  of  New  Mexico,  the  sums  set  opposite  our 


181.00 
.90 


.90 
.90 

.90 
9.  30 
9. 50 
7.50 
18.90 
.30 
.5.4u 
18.90 
11.40 


«5. 30:»13. 40 
3. 85  4. 75 
3. 85  3. 85 
3. 85  4. 75 
3. 85  4. 75 


3.85 
5.30 


4.75 
14.60 
6.00:  13.50 
6.00!  13.50 


Signatures  ol' 
payees. 


Paid  by  check. 


Witnesses  to 
marks. 


13.00:  Chas.Closson. 


3.00,  .Tolm  Patterson. 
58.40   Manuel  Salasar. 


49.75   Carlos  Arehuleta 
48.85'  Soralin  Saliizar  .. 


49.  75i  Urban  (su  -x  raar- 
[      ca)  Salazar. 

49.75   Manuel  Pacheeo. 


15.00 

12.90   592 

3. 60     72 
72 


15. 30 
3.60 
5.30 

15.30 
9.00 


34. 20! 

3.90 

10.70 

I 

34.20' 

I 
20. 40 


49.75   .\ntoni<i    '(his    x 
mark)  Archuleta 

62.60   Lorenz     (his     x 
mark)  Basquez 

61.50;  Nicolas  Archuleta 

I 
61. 50!  David  Gallegos  . . . 

88.20;  T.  A.  Melson 

45.90'  O.W.Alexander.. 

55. 70|  Bias  Sanchez 


3. 60;     3. 60 


3.60 
29.60 


3.60 
44. 60 


29.60   42.50 

3. 60'     7. 20 
3.60,     3.60 


88.20 
71. 40 
45. 60 
45.  60 
101. 60 


Evcrette  Burns.. 

L.  T.  Bryan 

Edgar  .\ndre\vs  . 
Ross  Griffiths.... 
Lawrence  Welch 


99.501  William    E.  Len- 
I      festv. 


52. 20 
45.60 


Wm.  F.Williams  . 
Allen  Young  . . 


33.  OOj  Grant  Rivenberg 


Date. 


Sept. 


Sept. 
Sept. 


F.  Gonzales  y 
Baca. 


Ygnacio    Cor 
doba. 


Sept. 
Sept. 

Serafln  Salazar     93|  Sept. 

I 
!    94!  8ept. 

!      i 

95 j  Sept. 
96|  Sept. 

97  Sept. 

98  Sept. 
76  Sept. 

99  Sept. 

100  Sept. 

87   Sept. 

I 
89j  Sept. 

101  Sept. 
102J  Sept. 

85[  Sept. 


103   Sept.  13 


104,  Sept. 

105  Sept. 

I 

106  Sept. 


Name  of  depo.s- 
itorv. 


First  National 
Bank  of  Albn- 
querque,  N. 
Mex. 

Do. 

Do. 


Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 
Do. 

Do. 

Do. 
Do. 
Do. 


280 


np:w  statehood  bill. 


Pay  roll  of  petit  jurort^  in.  (dtcitihmct'  at  the  United  >^latey  district  court  for  the  first 

Fe,  N.  Mex. 


Residence. 

Dates  for  which  paid. 

o 

Name. 

County. 

1 

5 

Direc- 
tion. 

Post-oftice. 

Attendance. 

Travel. 

No.  of  days 
Amount. 

Manuel  Valdez  .. 

Santa  Fe 

Mis. 

Santa  Fe 

SGDt.  2.  3.  4.  .5. 

11 
11 

$33.00 
59  nn 

W.  0.  Cooper  .... 
Pedro  Raobal 

Santa  Fe 

6,8,9,10,11, 
I      12, 13. 

Santa  Fe i  Sept.  2,  3, 4,  .5, 

t      6,8,9,10,11, 
:      12, 1.3. 
Santa  Fe....    Sept.  2, 3,  4, 5, 
6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 
12, 13. 

Santa  Fe 

! 
i 

li;      33.00 

Total 

361 1  nss  nn 

816 

!                     1 

District  of  New  Mexico,  ss: 

I,  A.  M.  Bergere,  clerk  of  the  district  court  of  the  first  district  of  New  Mexico,  do 
court  to  pay  the  several  petit  jurors  above  named  the  amounts  set  opposite  their 

[seal.  ] 

(Indorsed:)    Triplicate.     Form  No.  29.    Voucher  No.  2.     District  of  New  Mexico. 
New  M*x.,  durincT  the  quarter  ending  September  30,  1902.     $1,369.35. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


281 


dvitrirt  of  New  Mexico  duriiuj  the  qiuirlcr  eiidiiuj  Sej)teiitl>er  30,  1902,  sittini/  at  Smiti 
— Continued. 


c 
p 
o 

a 
< 

^ 

03 

o 

O 

c 
© 

a 

OS 

Signatures  of 
l)ayees. 

Witnesses  to 
marks. 

Paid  by  check. 

IS 

i 

s 
< 

No. 

Date. 

Name  of  deposi- 
tory. 

1 
i 

S33.00 

Manuel  Valdez. . . 

107 

108 
109 

Sept.  13. 
Sept.  13. 
Sept.  13. 

Do. 

33.00 

\V.  0.  Cooper 

Do. 

33.00 

Pedro  Roibal 

Do. 

1 

122.40 

3279 

163.95 

286.351,369.35 

1 

hereby  certify  that  the  United  States  marshal  for  said  district  was  ordered  by  the 
names,  as  appears  from  the  records  of  tlie  court. 

(Signed)  A.  M.  Bergere,  Clerk. 


Pay  roll  of  petit  jurors  in  attendance  upon  the  first  district  court,  held  at  Santa  Fe, 


282  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

EXHIBIT  E. 

NOTICIA    LEGAL. 

TJltliiia  Yoluntad  y  Testaineuto  de  Jose  Baca y  Barda,  Finado. 

A  E.speridion  IWa,  Albacoa  y  Leo-atario,  Sabina  Chavez,   Emiliano 

Baca,  Andres  Baca,  3^  Dionicio  Baca,  Legatarios,  todos  Residentes 

de  Barelas,  N.  M.,  j  a  todos  a  quienes  esta  concierna. 

Estan  Yds.  por  esta  Notiticados  que  la  Ultima  Voluntad  y  Testamento 

de  Jose  Baca  y  Barela,  del  Coiulado  de  Bernalillo  y  Territorio  de  Nuevo 

Mejico,  finado  ha  sido  producido  y  leido  en  la  (Jorte  de  Pruebas  del 

Condado  de  Bernalillo  y  Territorio  de  Nuevo  Mejico,  en  una  Sesion 

Regular de  la  niisma,  tenida  el  dia  Dos  de  Setiembre  1902,  y  el  dia 

para  Aproliar  dicha  Ultima  Voluntad  y  Testamento  fuo  por  ordcn  del 
Juez  de  pruebas  de  dicha  Corte  fijadopara  elLunes  dia  seis  deOctul)re, 
A.  D.  1902,  Termino  de  dicha  Corte,  a  las  10  A.  M.,  de  dicbo  dia.  _ 

Dado  bajo  mi  mano  v  el  sello  de  dicha  Corte,  este  dia  Dos  de  Setiem- 
bre, A.  D.  1902. 

[seal.]  J.  A.  Summers, 

Escrihoni)  de  Pruehas. 


LEGAL   NOTICE. 

Last  lo'dl  and  ttstainent  of  Joae  Baca  y  BareJa^  deceased. 

To  Exjh  I'ldion  Baca.,  execxdor  and  devisee.,  Sdhina  Chavez.,  Emiliano 

Baca^  Andres  Baca^  and  Dionicio  Baca.,  devisees,  all  'residents  of 

Barelas.,  N.  M.,  and  to  all  lohom  it  may  concern: 

You  are  hereby  notified  that  the  alleged  last  will  and  testament  of 
Jose  Baca  y  Barela,  late  of  the  county  of  Bernalillo  and  Territory  of 
New  Mexico,  deceased,  has  been  produced  and  read  in  the  probate  court 
of  the  county  of  Bernalillo,  Territory  of  New  Mexico,  at  a  regular  term 
thereof,  held  on  the  2nd  day  of  September,  1902;  and  the  day  of  the 
proving  of  said  alleged  last  will  and  testament  was,  by  order  of  the 
judge  of  said  court,  thereupon  fixed  for  Monday,  the  6th  day  of  Octo- 
ber, A.  D.  1902,  term  of  said  court,  at  10  o'clock  in  the  forenoon  of 
said  da}^ 

Given  under  my  hand  and  the  seal  of  said  court  this  2nd  day  of  Sep- 
tember, A.  D.  190:i. 

[seal.]  J.  A.  Summers,  Prohate  Clerk. 


EXHIBIT  F. 


Be  it  remembered,  that  heretofore,  at  a  regular  term  of  the  district 
court  of  the  second  judicial  district  of  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico, 
within  and  for  the  county  of  Bernalillo,  begun  and  held  at  the  court- 
house in  said  county  on  the  third  Monday  in  September,  1900,  and  on 


NEW    STATEHOOD    KILL.  283 

the  third  day  of  said  rej^uhir  term,  the  same  heino-the  19th  day  of  Sep- 
tember, li>()0,  the  foUowino-  amont>'  othor  proceeding's  were  had: 

Present,  Ilonora))le  f Jonathan  W.  ('riim{)a(*ker.  associate  justice  of 
the  supreme  court  of  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico,  and  judg-e  of  the 
second  judicial  district  court  thereof, 

Abelino  A.  Aguirre,  etal.,  r.  Francisco  A.  Sarracino.  et  al.     No.  -tTiO. 

This  cause  havino-  at  a  former  day  come  on  for  final  hearing-  upon 
the  pleadings,  proofs,  and  exhibits  returned  therewith,  the  three  reports 
of  A\'illiam  D.  Lee,  the  master  of  this  court,  to  whom  this  cause  was 
referred  for  examination  and  report,  the  stipulation  of  coimsel  as  to 
the  eiiect  to  be  given  to  Prince's  Exhibit  No.  2T,  and  upon  the  excep- 
tions to  the  said  reports  tiled  on  behalf  of  complainants  by  their  coun- 
sel, F.  W.  Clancy,  and  on  behalf  of  such  of  defendants  as  have  appeared 
herein,  by  their  counsel,  B.  S.  Rode}'  and  L,  Bradford  Prince,  and 
counsel  having  been  heard  as  well  for  said  defendants  as  for  the  com- 
plainants, and  this  cause  having  been  taken  under  advisement  by  the 
court,  the  court,  being  now  sufficiently  advised  in  the  premises,  over- 
rules all  of  the  exceptions  to  the  said  report  of  the  said  master,  and 
hereby  adopts  the  findings  of  the  said  master  in  said  reports  contained 
and  set  forth  as  the  findings  of  the  court  in  this  case,  except  so  far  as 
modified  by  the  stipulation  aforesaid  of  all  of  the  counsel  who  have 
appeared  herein.  It  is,  therefore,  ordered,  adjudged,  and  decreed  by 
the  court  that  the  said  reports  of  the  master  be,  and  they  hereby  are,  in 
all  respects  approved,  ratified,  and  confirmed  except  so  far  as  modified 
by  the  said  stipulation,  and  that,  in  accordance  with  the  said  reports 
and  the  said  stipulation,  the  lands  and  premises  in  the  pleadings  and  in 
the  said  reports  described  and  referred  to,  with  the  exception  and  res- 
ervation in  the  first  of  said  reports  noted  and  hereinafter  set  forth,  are 
owned  by  the  following-named  persons  in  the  proportions  set  opposite 
their  respective  names,  to-wit: 

Albert  L.  Richardson,  9/30  and  7,761,983/11,642,400  of  1/30. 

L.  Bradford  Prince,  8,117/11,760  of  1/30. 

^Villi  Spiesrelbercj,  13/28  of  1/30. 

Louis  Hunino-,  583/2100  of  1/30. 

Dolores  Garcia,  17/525  of  1/30. 

Juliana  Chaves,  17/1750  of  1/30. 

I^nacio  Chaves,  17/1750  of  1/30. 

Victorio  Chaves,  17/1750  of  1/30. 

Jesus  Chaves,  17/1750  of  1/30. 

Juana  Candelaria,  17/3500  of  1/30. 

Cresencio  Candelaria,  17/3500  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Eusebio  Ballejos,  54/75  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  (xabriel  Ballejos,  54/75  of  1/30. 

Manuela  Apodaca,  1/210  of  1/30. 

Jesus  Apodaca,  1/70  of  1/30. 

Ana  Maria  Apodaca,  1/315  of  1/30. 

Jesus  Maria  Mestas,  1/630  of  1/30. 

Esequiel  Mestas,  1/630  of  1/30. 

Dolores  Candelaria,  1/630  of  1/30. 

Deciliano  Aj>odaca,  1/70  of  1/30. 

Anastacio  Garcia,  53/3780  of  1/30. 

Josefa  Garcia,  53/3780  of  1/.30. 

Anasaria  Garcia,  53/3780  of  1/30. 

Veneranda  Telles,  1/280  of  1/30. 

Abel  Telles,  1/280  of  1/30. 

Cliniarco  Gallegos,  143/5040  of  1/30. 

Five  Brothers  of  Climarco  Gallegos,  143/1008  of  1/30. 


284  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Heirs  of  Jose  Jaramillo,  11/400  of  1/30. 

Francisca  Jaramillo  de  Sarracino,  11/320  of  1/30. 

Cruz  Jaramillo,  11/400  of  1/30. 

Brigida  Jaramillo,  11/400  of  1/30. 

Barbara  Jaramillo,  11/400  of  1/30. 

Juana  Ballejos  de  Baca,  11/2000  of  1/30. 

Jose  Ballejos,  11/2000  of  1/30. 

Koman  Ballejos,  11/2000  of  1/30. 

Ruperta  Ballejos  de  Silva,  11/2000  of  1/30. 

Daughter  of  Francisco  Ballejos  &  Marcelina  Jaramillo,  11/2000  of  1/30. 

Demetrio  Jaramillo,  11/400  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Baltazar  Jaramillo,  11/1600  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Concepcion  Jaramillo,  11/1600  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Genoveva  Jaramillo,  11/1600  of  1/30. 

Lupe  Sandoval,  1/100  of  1/30. 

Juana  Sandoval,  1/150  of  1/30. 

Marcelina  Castillo,  1/150  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Francisco  Sandoval,  1/100  of  1/30. 

Josetita  Sandoval,  1/100  of  1/30. 

Tomas  Sandoval,  1/100  of  1/30. 

Deciderio  Sandoval,  121/2100  of  1/30. 

Rafael  Sandoval,  1/100  of  1/30. 

Josefa  Sandoval,  1/100  of  1/30. 

Cecilia  Ortega  de  Garcia,  1/90  of  1/30. 

Antonio  Jose  Ortega,  1/135  of  1/30. 

Santos  Ortega,  1/135  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Francisco  Ortega,  1/90  of  1/30. 

Feliz  Ortega  de  Dominguez,  1/90  of  1/30. 

Tomas  Garcia,  37/3150  of  1/30. 

Mariano  Garcia,  37/3150  of  1/30. 

Maria  Garcia,  37/3150  of  1/30. 

Feliz  Garcia,  37/3150  of  1/30. 

Jose  Manuel  Garcia,  37/3150  of  1/30. 

Leandra  Sanchez,  1/135  of  1/30. 

Claudia  Mason,  1/80  of  1/30. 

Sara  Mason,  1/160  of  1/30. 

Leopoldo  Mason,  113/1120  of  1/30. 

Beatriz  Jaramillo,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Juan  Jaramillo,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Lorenza  Jaramillo,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Liljrada  Aragon,  1/60  of  1/30. 

Teresa  Aragon,  1/60  of  1/30. 

Aragon  de  Figueroa,  1/60  of  1/30. 

Librada  Landovazo,  1/200  of  1/30. 

Jesus  Landovazo,  1/200  of  1/30. 

Manuel  Landovazo,  1/200  of  1/30. 

Amado  Landovazo,  1/200  of  1/30. 

Refugio  Landovazo,  1/200  of  1/30. 

Feliz  Sena  de  Garcia,  1/40  of  1/30. 

Alfredo  Apodaca,  1/60  of  1/30. 

Benjamin  Sanchez,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Eliseo  Sanchez,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Prospero  Sanchez,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Nemecia  Sanchez,  1/160  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Pedro  Aragon,  1/30  of  1/30. 

Dolores  Aragon,  1/30  of  1/30. 

Elias  Chaves,  1/90  of  1/30. 

Felix  H.  Lester  and  Summers  Burkhart,  1/45  of  1/30. 

Lupe  Aragon  de  Jaramillo,  1/70  of  1/30. 

Jesus  Aragon,  1/70  of  1/30. 

Nepomuceno  Aragon,  1/105  of  1/30. 

Lucario  Aragon,  1/105  of  1/30. 

Reyes  Aragon  de  Gonzales,  1/70  of  1/30. 

Leocadia  Chaves  de  Chaves,  1/210  of  1/30. 

Elisa  Pacheco,  1/210  of  1/30. 

Petra  Aragon  de  Chaves,  1/70  of  1/30. 

Antonio  Lucero,  1/3  of  1/30. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  285 

Juaiia  Gallegoi?,  la  grarnle,  1/6  of  1/30. 

Juana  GallefjoH,  la  chica,  1/6  of  1/30. 

Manuel  Atoclia  (Tallegos,  1/9  of  1/30. 

Pablo  (Tallegos,  1/9  of  1/30. 

Gallego8,  brother  of  last  two,  1/9  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Nicolas  Gallegos,  1/3  of  1/30. 

Jesus  Baca,  1/45  of  1/30. 

Adolfo  Baca,  1/150  of  1/30. 

Liberate  Baca,  1/150  of  1/30. 

Pedro  Baca,  1/150  of  1/30. 

Trinidad  Baca,  1/150  of  1/30. 

Baca,  a  daughter,  living  at  the  house  of  Alejandro  Sandoval,  1/150  of  1,30. 

Trinidad  Marquez,  11/120  of  1/30. 

Desiderio  Marquez,  li/120  of  1/30. 

Jesus  Marquez,  11/120  of  1/30. 

Lorensita  ^Marquez  de  Chavez,  11/120  of  1/30. 

Lugarda  Marquez  de  ]Mirabal,  11/360  of  1/30. 

Octaviana  Marquez  de  Barela,  11/.360  of  1/30. 

Elviria  Marquez  de  Arniijo,  11/360  of  1/30. 

Juan  Bautista  Marquez,  11/96  of  1/30. 

Gabriel  Marquez,  11/96  of  1/30. 

Estoliano  31arquez,  11/480  of  1/30. 

Veneranda  ^larquez,  11/480  of  1/30. 

Viviana  Marquez,  11/480  of  1/30. 

Natividad  Marquez,  11/480  of  1/30. 

Patrocinio  Manjuez,  11/480  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Ferniin  Chavez,  11/96  of  1/30. 

Eegalada  ]Marquez,  1/24  of  1/30. 

Felipe  ^larquez,  1/24  of  1/30. 

Seferina  ^Nlanjuez,  1/36  of  1/30. 

Deluvina  Marquez,  1/24  of  1/30. 

[Manuel  Gallegos,  1/18  of  1/30. 

Martin  Gallegos  y  Chaves,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Procopio  Gallegos  y  Apodaca,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Concepcion  Gallegos  y  Apodaca,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Alcario  Gallegos  y  Ajiodaca,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Predicanda  Gallegos  y  Apodaca,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Saturnina  Gallegos  y  Apodaca,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Manuel  Gallegos  y  Apodaca,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Liberato  Gallegos  y  Apodaca,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Rita  Candelaria,  1/9  of  1/30. 

Maria  de  los  Angeles  Candelaria.  1/9  of  1/30. 

Merced  Candelaria,  1/9  of  1/30. 

Maria  Gallegos  de  Casias,  2/21  of  1/30. 

Noberta  Gallegos,  4/189  of  1/30. 

Desiderio  Gallegos,  4/189  of  1/30. 

Diosa  Gallegos,  4/189  of  1/30. 

Guadalupita  Gallegos,  2/63  of  1/30. 

Apolinaria  Gallegos,  4/189  of  1/30. 

Juana  Maria  Gallegos,  4/189  of  1/30. 

Maria  Asencion  Gallegos,  4  63  of  1/30. 

Manuel  Chaves  y  Lucero,  2/189  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Cipriana  Duran  de  Candelaria,  1/63  of  1/30. 

Refugia  Candelaria,  1/63  of  1/30. 

Ynez  Candelaria,  1/63  of  1/30. 

]\Iaria  Candelaria,  1/63  of  1/30. 

Juan  Francisco  Candelaria,  1/63  of  1/30. 

Antonio  Jose  Serna,  1/27  of  1/30. 

Juan  Serna,  1/27  of  1/30. 

Concepcion  Serna,  1/27  of  1/30. 

Josesito  Serna,  1/27  of  1/30. 

Rumalda  Serna,  1/27  of  1/30. 

Barbara  Serna,  1/27  of  1/30. 

Vences  Ortiz,  1/62  of  1/30. 

Maria  Refugia  Ortiz,  1/162  of  1/30. 

George  J.  Juilliard,  1/162  of  1/30. 

Mauricio  Ortiz,  1/162  of  1/30. 


280  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

I 

Miguel  Ortiz,  1/162  of  1/30. 

IVrlilia  Ortiz,  1/162  of  1/30. 

Kojo  (iarvia,  1/108  of  1/30. 

Eusel)i()  Garcia,  1/108  of  1/30. 

Ydt'hno  (larcia,  1  '108  of  1/30. 

Feliz  CTaroia,  1/108  of  1/30. 

Maria  Oritz  de  Ansures,  1/81  of  1/30. 

Barbara  Ortiz  de  Padilla,  1/81  of  1/30. 

Veneranda  Ortiz  de  Lopez,  1/81  of  1/30. 

Jose  Serna,  2/63  of  1/30. 

JnanaSerna,  2/63  of  1/30. 

Irineo  Torres,  1/63  of  1/30. 

Jesus  Maria  Torres,  1/63  of  1/30. 

Casimiro  D.  Garcia,  45  224  of  1/30. 

Dolores  Serna,  1/63  of  i/30. 

Rosaria  Serna,  2/189  of  1/30. 

Brigida  Serna,  2/189  of  1/30. 

Juan  de  Jesus  Molina,  el  Gordo,  1/18  of  1  30 

Candido  Molina,  1/18  of  1/30. 

Jose  Andres  Molina,  1/18  of  1/30. 

Jose  Pablo  Molina,  1/18  of  1/30. 

Anastacia  Sais,  1/18  of  1/30. 

Pilar  Molina,  1/54  of  1/30. 

Sofia  .Molina,  1/54  of  1/30. 

Rosenda  Molina,  1/54  of  1/30. 

Juana  Molina,  1/33  of  1/30. 

Juan  Rafael  Molina,  1/33  of  1/30. 

Eulogio  :\Iolina,  1/33  of  1/30. 

Juan  Francisco  Molina,  1/33  of  1/30. 

Jose  Molina,  1/33  of  1/30. 

Justo  Molina,  1/33  of  1/30. 

Luciano  Molina,  1/33  of  1/30. 

Maria  Molina,  1/33  of  1/30. 

Lorenso  Molina,  1/33  of  1/30. 

Ainada  Griego,  1/33  of  1/30. 

Jose  Chaves,  son  of  Polonia  Silva,  1/108  of  1/30. 

Juana  Maria  Chaves,  daughter  of  Polonia  Silva,  1/108  of  1/30. 

Guadalupe  Chaves,  1/270  of  1/30. 

Adela  Chaves,  1/270  of  1/30. 

Apolonia  Chaves,  1/270  of  1/30. 

Estevan  Chaves,  1/270  of  1/30. 

Pilar  Chaves,  1/270  of  1/30. 

Josefa  Silva  de  Jiron.  la  Chata,  1/54  of  1/30. 

Manuel  Silva,  1/36  of'  1/30. 

San  Juan  Xlibarri,  37/432  of  1/30. 

Feliz  Ulibarri,  37/432  of  1/30. 

Longino  Ulibarri,  37/432  of  1/30. 

Juana  Ulibarri,  37/432  of  1/30. 

Tiburcia  Ulibarri  de  Salas,  37/324  of  1/30. 

Canuto  Ilibarri,  37/216  of  1/30. 

Carlota  Naranjo  de  Chaves,  37/162  of  1/30. 

Jose  G.  Chaves,  1/252  of  1/30. 

Benito  Chaves,  1/252  of  1/30. 

Querino  Chaves,  1/252  of  1/30. 

Sabina  Chaves,  1/252  of  1/30. 

Benina  Chaves,  1/252  of  1/30. 

Loreto  Chaves,  1/252  of  1/30. 

Juanita  Chaves,  1/252  of  1/30. 

Trinidad  Garcia  de  Torres,  1/36  of  1/30. 

Trinidad  Romero  de  Jaramillo,  3/20  of  1/30. 

Andrea  Garcia,  1/324  of  1/30. 

Candido  Garcia,  1/324  of  1/30. 

Damasio  Garcia,  1/324  of  1/30. 

Manuel  Garcia,  1/324  of  1/30. 

Rafael  Garcia,  1/324  of  1/30. 

Telesfor  Garcia,  1/324  of  1/30. 

Abela  Garcia,  1/324  of  1/30. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  '  287 


Beatriz  Garcia,  1/324  of  1/30. 

CJarcia,  cliild  of  Juan  (iarfia,  1/324  of  1  30. 
Aniado  Aguirre,  1,1S0  of  1/30. 
Donaciano  Ajjuirre,  1/180  of  1/30. 
Abelino  A^'uirre,  1/180  of  1/30. 
Andrea  Garcia  de  Luna,  1/180  of  1/30. 
Catedra  Garcia,  1/180  of  1/30. 
Luis  Padilla,  1/72  of  1/30. 
Maria  CJliaves  de  Archundi,  7/96  of  1/30. 
Manuelita  Chaves  de  Padilla,  7/96  of  1/30. 
Rojeria  Gandelaria,  7/480  of  1/30. 
Eidal  Candelaria,  7  480  of  1/30. 
Luis  Candelaria,  7/480  of  1/30. 
Domingo  Candelaria,  7/480  of  1/30. 
Miquela  Candelaria,  7/480  of  1/30. 
Manuel  Chaves,  7/48  of  1/30. 
Leandro  Aragon,  7/48  of  1/30. 
Miguel  Romero,  1/24  of  1/30. 
Jose  Maria  Romero,  1/24  of  1/30. 
Manfor  Romero,  1/192  of  1/30. 
Irines  Romero,  1/192  of  1/30. 
8oledad  Rf.mero,  1/192  of  1/30. 
Acacio  Romero,  1/192  of  1/30. 
Gregorio  Romero,  1/192  of  1/30. 
Venceslado  Romero,  1/192  of  1/30. 
Jcsefa  Romero,  1/192  of  1/30. 

Romero,  sister  of  seven  preceding,  1/192  of  1/30. 
Jesus  Romero,  1/30  of  1/30. 
Susana  Romero  de  Sals,  1/45  of  1/30. 
Maria  de  Jesus  Chaves  de  Barela,  1/72  of  1/30. 
Antonia  Chaves  de  Sandoval,  1/72  of  1/30. 
Paula  Chaves  de  Sandoval,  1/72  of  1/30. 
Primitiva  Morales  de  Garcia,  1/72  of  1/30. 
Anastacia  Chaves  de  Montano,  1/72  of  1/30. 
Delfida  Mirabal,  1/432  of  1/30. 

Elena  Mirabal,  1/432  of  1/30. 
Trinidad  IMirabal,  1/432  of  1/30. 

Melitona  Mirabal,  1/432  of  1/30. 

Serafin  Mirabal,  1/432  of  1/30. 

Modesta  Miral)al,  1/432  of  1/30. 

Jose  Manuel  (iarcia,  el  Lindo,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Luciana  Garcia,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Garcia  de  Pena,  wife  of  IManuel  Pena,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Matiana  Garcia  de  Sandoval,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Juana  Garcia,  1/144  of  1/30. 

Juanita  Garcia,  1/144  of  1/30. 

Leonires  Morales,  1/384  of  1/30. 

Liberos  Morales,  1/384  of  1/30. 

Kosenda  IMoraies,  1/384  of  1/30. 

Pablo  Morales,  1/384  of  1/30. 

Jesus  Mason,  1/6  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Gregoria  (Tonzales  de  Candelaria,  1/20  of  1/30. 

Juan  Gonzales,  el  Herrero,  13/280  of  1/30. 

Placida  Molina,  la  Cautiva,  39/1120  of  1/30. 

Cayetano  Molina,  39/1120  of  1/30. 

Maria  de  Jesus  Gonzales,  13/350  of  1/30. 

Trinidad  Gonzales  de  Gonzales,  39/700  of  1/30. 

Dolores  Gonzales.  39/700  of  1/30. 

Juan  Gonzales,  13/350  of  1/30. 

Candelaria  Chaves  de  Hutchason,  1/8  of  1/30. 

Jose  Alari  Chaves,  1/90  of  1/30. 

Antonio  Jose  Chaves,  1/90  of  1/30. 

Querino  Jaramillo,  1/360  of  1/30. 

Jose  ^Manuel  Jaramillo,  1/360  of  1/30. 

Ricardo  Jaramillo,  1/360  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Cresencio  Jaramillo,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Clemente  Baca,  1/60  of  1/30. 


288  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Jnana  Baca,  1  60  of  1/30. 

Joae  Maria  Chaves,  1/12  of  1/30. 

Jose  Rafael  Chaves,  1/72  of  1/30. 

Juan  Manuel  Chaves,  1/72  of  1/30. 

Jose  Francisco  Chaves,  1/72  of  1/30. 

Santiaiso  Chaves,  1/72  of  1/30. 

Trinidad  Chaves,  1/72  of  1/30. 

Petra  Chaves,  1/72  of  1/30. 

Pauhna  Herrera,  1/12  of  1/30. 

Catarina  Herrera,  1/24  of  1/30. 

Felipe  Herrera,  1/24  of  1/30. 

Juana  Herrera,  1/30  of  1/30. 

Refugio  Herrera,  1/30  of  1/30. 

Juan  Jose  Herrera,  1/30  of  1/30. 

Ambrosia  Herrera,  1/30  of  1/30. 

Nicanor  Herrera,  1/30  of  1/30. 

Manuela  Montova  de  Martinez,  1/24  of  1/30. 

Teofila  INIontova  de  Trujillo,  1/24  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Dorotea  :\Iontoya,  1/24  of  1/30. 

Pednj  Domingues  y  Montova,  1/24  of  1/30. 

Tiburcia  Herrera  de  Garcia,  1/6  of  1/30. 

Pablo  Montano  y  Herrera,  1/6  of  1/30. 

Leonarda  Herrera  de  Lujan,  1/42  of  1/30. 

Donaciano  Gallegos,  1/42  of  1/30. 

Salome  Gallegos,  1  42  of  1/30. 

Gavino  Gallegos,  1/42  of  1/30. 

Crespin  Gallegos,  1  42  of  1/30. 

Antonia  Gallegos,  1/42  of  1/30. 

Epitasio  Lopez,  1/126  of  1/30. 

Maria  Lopez,  1/126  of  1/130. 

Juanita  Lopez,  1/126  of  130. 

Juan  Jose  Herrera  y  Jiminez,  1/42  of  1/30. 

Sabina  Herrera,  1/42  of  1/30. 

Romana  Herrera,  1/42  of  130. 

Bernabe  Herrera,  1  42  of  1/30. 

Julian  Herrera,  1,42  of  1/30. 

Juan  Herrera,  1/42  of  1/30. 

Micaela  Herrera,  1/42  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Juana  Herrera  de  Montano,  1/6  of  1/30. 

Rosalia  Jaramillo  de  JNIartin,  3/50  of  1/30. 

Eduardo  Gonzales,  3/200  of  1/30. 

Perfecto  Gonzales,  3/200  of  1/30. 

Reyes  Gonzales,  3  200  of  1/30. 

Cleofa  Gonzales,  3  200  of  1/30. 

Jose  Dolores  Ballejus,  3/175  of  1/30. 

P^ucaria  Ballejos  de  Apodaca,  3/175  of  1/30. 

Trinidad  Aragon,  1/350  of  1/30. 

Dolores  Aragon,  1/350  of  1/30. 

Estevan  Aragon,  1/350  of  1/30. 

Mariano  Aragon,  1/350  of  1/30. 

Nestora  Aragon,  1/350  of  1/30. 

Narciso  Aragon,  1/350  of  1/30. 

Juan  Archun.li,  3/700  of  1/30. 

Beatriz  Arclumdi,  3  700  of  1/30. 

Premia  Archundi,  3,700  of  1/30. 

Jose  Rafael  Archundi,  3/700  of  1/30. 

Jose  Ballejos,  3/175  of  1/30. 

Jose  Ballejos,  son  of  Manuel  Ballejos,  3,350  of  1/30. 

Manuela  Ballejos,  3,350  of  1/30. 

Manuel  Bellejos,  3/350  of  1/30. 

Pablo  Ballejos,  3/350  of  1/30. 

Juana  Jaramillo  de  Martin,  1/25  of  l,/30. 

Jose  Jaramillo,  son  of  Juan  Jaramillo,  1/25  of  1/30. 

Francisco  Jaramillo,  1/25  of  1/30. 

Adolph  Seligman,  4/15  of  1/30. 

Max  Frost,  2/15  of  130. 

B.  F.  Wade,  2/15  of  1,30. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  289 

lleir^J  of  Marcos  Jarainillo,  1/9  of  l/.SO. 

( 'iVHeucio  Jaianiillo  v  (.hillego,  1/9  of  1/30. 

Jof^e  Manuel  Jaramillo,  1/lS  of  1/30. 

("reseiu'io  Jaramillo  y  Vhaven,  1/1(5  of  1/30. 

Manuel  Jaraniillo,  el  Chino,  1/15  oi  1/30. 

Manuel  Jaraniillo,  1/15  of  1/30. 

Antonio  Jarainillo,  1/15  of  1/30. 

Jose  y  Jaraniillo,  son  of  Dolores  Jarainillo  y  C'liaves,  1  45  of  1/30. 

Juan  Jarainillo,  1 '45  of  1/30. 

Sotela  Jaraniillo,  1  45  of  1/30. 

Franeisquita  Jarainillo  de  Cliave?,  1/9  of  1/30. 

Tafoya  v  Jaraniillo,  son  of  Teresa  Jarainillo  ami  Damasio  Tafoya,  19  of  1/30. 

Jose  Sabedra,  1/45  of  1/30. 

]\raris  Sabedra,  1  /45  of  1/30. 

Jose  Sabedra,  Segundo,  1/45  of  1/30. 

Francisco  Sabedra,  1/45  of  1/30. 

Sabedra,  l)rother  of  four  preceding,  1/45  of  1/30. 
J  nana  :\raria  Otero,  4/105  of  1/30. 
Uafaela  (ionzales  de  Mason,  4/105  of  1/30. 
Daniela  (ionzales  de  Sandoval,  4/105  of  1/30. 
Jesus  Gonzales  de  Garcia,  4/105  of  1/30. 
Salvador  Baca,  41/525  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Jesus  Maria  Gonzales  y  Santillaues,  4/105  of  1/30. 
Heirs  of  Lorenzo  Garcia,  1/21  of  1/30. 
Trinidad  Ballejos,  1/84  of  1/30. 
Abran  Ballejos,  1/84  of  1/30. 
Encarnacion  Ballejos,  1/84  of  1/30. 
Narciso  Ballejos,  1/84  of  1/30. 
Filoinena  Garcia,  1/28  of  1/30. 
Jose  Garcia,  1/28  of  1/30. 

Juan  Chaves,  son  of  Polonia  Garcia,  1/7  of  1/30. 
Juan  Barela,  1/45  of  1/30. 
Altagracia  Barela,  1/45  of  1/30. 
Tiburcio  Padilla,  1/90  of  1/30. 
Jose  Padilla,  1/90  of  1/30. 
Serafina  Chaves  de  Marquez,  1/75  of  1/30. 
Filomeno  Chaves,  2/225  of  1/30. 
Feliz  Chavez  de  Mirabel,  1/75  of  1/30. 
Juana  Chaves  de  Jaraniillo,  2/225  of  1/30. 
Cruz  Chaves  de  Salazar,  2/225  of  1/30. 
Clatarino  Molina,  1/60  of  1/30. 
Ysabel  Molina,  1/60  of  1/30. 
Juana  Maria  Molina,  1/60  of  1/30. 
Feliciano  Molina,  1/60  of  1/30. 
Miguel  Chaves,  1/6  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Jose  de  Jesus  Chaves,  el  Arriero,  1/6  of  1/30. 
Domingo  Chaves,  1/6  of  1/30. 
Jose  Vidal  Molina,  1/30  of  1/30. 
Seferino  Molina,  1/30  of  1/30. 
Crucita  Molina,  1/30  of  1/30. 
Venceslado  Molina,  1/30  of  1/30. 
Predicanda  Molina,  1/30  of  1/30. 
Manuel  Chaves,  1/6  of  1/30. 
Josefa  Chaves,  1/6  of  1/30. 
Juan  Gurule,  1/6  of  1/30. 
Miguel  Chaves,  1/12  of  1/30. 
Juana  Chaves,  1/12  of  1/30. 
Francisco  Baca,  1/5  of  1/30. 
Cecilia  Baca,  1/25  of  1  /30. 
Dolores  Baca,  1/25  of  1/30. 
Manuel  Baca,  1/25  of  1/30. 
Juana  Baca,  1/25  of  1/30. 
Jose  Jarainillo,  1/15  of  1/30. 
Manuel  Jarainillo,  1/15  of  1/30. 
Trinidad  Jarainillo  <le  Chaves,  1/15  of  1/30. 
Juan  Armijo,  1/15  of  1/30. 
Heirs  of  Querina  Armijo  de  Armijo,  1/15  of  1/30. 

H    S  B 19 


290  nj:w  statehood  hill. 

Antonio  Jos^e  Aragon,  1/35  of  1/80. 
Jose  (le  la  Luz  Arniijo.  1/15  of  1/30. 
Gregorio  Aragon,  1/35  of  1/30. 
Koniulo  Aragon,  1/35  of  1/30. 
Francisco  Aragon,  2/105  of  1/30. 
^Margarita  Aragon,  1/35  of  1/30. 
Heirs  of  Remedios  Aragon,  1/35  of  1/30. 

Aragon,  brother  or  sister  of  six  preceding,  1/35  of  1/30. 
Clara  Chaves  de  Chaves,  1/4  of  1/30. 
Jost'fita  Sanches,  1/32  of  1/30. 
Scfcrina  Sanches,  1/32  of  1/30. 
Jnanita  Sanches,  1/32  of  1/30. 
J  nana  :Maria  Sanches,  1/32  of  1/30. 
Patric'io  Sanchez,  1/32  of  1/30. 
Jnanito  Sanchez,  1/48  of  1/30. 
Andirosio  Sanchez,  1/64  of  1/30. 
Francisca  Sanchez,  1/64  of  1/30. 
Adolfo  Sanchez,  1/32  of  1/30. 
Lnpe  Chaves  de  Arniijo,  1/20  of  1/30. 
Antonio  Alonzo,  1/20  of  1/30. 
Jose  de  la  Inz  Garcia,  1/30  of  1/30. 
Pablo  Pena,  1/cSO  of  1/30. 
Albina  Chaves  de  Baca,  1/80  of  1/30. 
Perfecta  Chaves  de  Martin,  1/120  of  1/30. 
Jnanito  Chaves,  1/80  of  1/30. 
Jose  Andres  Lucero,  1/90  of  1/30. 
Epifiano  Lucero,  1/60  of  1/30. 
Jose  Romulo  Lucero,  1/60  of  1/30. 
Polonia  Peralta,  1/72  of  1/30. 
Maria  Peralta,  1/48  of  1/30. 
Molitona  Peralta,  1/72  of  1'30. 
Pablo  Peralta,  1/48  of  1/30. 
Alejandro  Peralta,  1/72  of  1/30. 
Patricio  Peralta,  1/72  of  l/'30. 
Juan  Crisosto  Romero,  1/32  of  1/30. 
Heirs  of  Juan  Jose  Romero,  el  Polia,  1/32  of  1/30. 
Jose  Daniian  Romero,  1/48  of  1/30. 
Augustina  Romero,  1/48  of  1/30. 
Heirs  of  Atauacio  Anaya.  1/144  of  1/30. 
Juan  Anaya,  1/144  of  1/30. 
Santiago  Anaya,  1/144  of  1/30. 
Juana  Mares,  1/'192  of  1/30. 
Maria  Mares,  1/192  of  1/30. 
China  Mares  de  Garcia,  1/192  of  l/'30. 
Nicolas  Mares,  1/576  of  1/30. 
Floribal  Mares,  l/'576  of  1/30. 
Brigida  Mares,  1/576  of  1/30. 
Jose  Candelaria,  1/96  of  1/30. 
Maria  Candelaria,  1/96  of  1/30. 
Pablo  Candelaria,  1/96  of  1/30. 
Amador  Candelaria,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Jose  Maria  Herrera  y  Jaramillo,  133/900  of  1/30. 
Ignacio  Herrera  v  Garcia,  1/36  of  l/'oO. 
Trinidad  Herrera,  1/108  of  1/30. 
Antonio  Herrera,  1/108  of  1/30. 
Felipe  Herrera,  1/108  of  1/30. 
Rumaldo  Herrera,  1/60  of  1/30. 
Placida  Herrera,  1/60  of  1/30. 
:\rartin  Garcia,  1/60  of  1/30. 
Catron  Herrera,  1/120  of  1/30. 
Perfecto  Herrera,  1/120  of  1/30. 
Domitillia  Candelaria,  1/120  of  1/30. 
Transito  Candelaria,  1/120  of  1/30. 
Antonio  Jose  Herrera,  1/60  of  1/30. 
Fulgencio  Herrera,  1/60  of  1  '30. 
Maria  Gabriela  Herrera,  1/60  of  1/30. 
Reina  Herrera,  1/60  of  1/30. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    IHLL.  291 

Juan  Herrera,  el  Kico,  1/(30  of  1/80. 

Manuel  Antonio  Jaraniillo,  1/24  of  1/30. 

Candelaria  Sa])e(lra,  1,96  of  1/30. 

Altagracia  Sabedra,  1,96  of  1/30. 

Jose  Sabedra,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Saria  Sabedra,  1/96  of  1/30. 

Catedra  Herrera,  de  Chaves,  1/60  of  1/30. 

Jose  Herrera,  1/60  of  1/30. 

Cavino  Herrera,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Feliz  Herrera  de  Aranda,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Doloritas  Herrera,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Proiopio  Herrera,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Barbarita  Herrera,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Juanita  Herrera,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Justo  Herrera,  1/240  of  1/30. 

Alfredo  Herrera,  1/240  of  1/30. 

MeUiuiades  Sanchez,  1/180  of  1/30. 

Veneesladd  Sanchez,  1/180  of  1/30. 

Antonio  Sanchez  y  Herrera,  1/180  of  1/30. 

Juan  de  Jesus  Baca,  2/147  of  1/30. 

Ijautista  Baca,  1,49  of  1/30. 

Jose  Trinidad  Gonzales,  el  Renes,  2/735  of  1  30. 

Maria  Anastacia  Gonzales,  2/735  of  1/30. 

Francisco  Gonzales,  2/735  of  1/30. 

Aniceto  Gonzales,  2/735  of  1/30. 

^lartin  Sanches,  1/147  of  1/30. 

Teodoro  (ionzales,  2/735  of  1,-30. 

Xicanor  Sanches,  1/98  of  1/30. 

Luis  Chaves,  1/126  of  1/30. 

Jose  Angel  Chaves,  1/126  of  1  '30. 

Anastacfo  Chaves,  1/126  of  1/30. 

Santiago  Chaves,  1/84  of  1/30. 

Claudib  Baca,  1/49  of  1/30. 

Macedonio  Baca,  1/49  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Branlia  Baca  de  Salazar,  1/49  of  1/30. 

Ciria  or  Cii-ilia  Baca  de  Molina,  1  49  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Cona  or  Josefa  Baca  de  Sanchez,  1/49  of  1/30. 

Domingo  Baca,  1/49  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Conce]>cion  Padilla  de  Sabedra,  1/98  of  1/30. 

Merenciana  Padilla,  1/98  of  1/30. 

Jose  Rafael  Sabedra,  1/126  of  l/'30. 

Trinidad  Sabedra,  1/126  of  1/30. 

Jose  Andres  SaV)edra,  1/126  of  1/30. 

Zenobio  Sabedra,  1/126  of  1/30. 

Nestor  Sabedra,  1/126  of  1/30. 

Eligio  Sabedra,  1/126  of  1/30. 

Delfina  Sabedra,  1/126  of  1/30. 

Blisea  Sabedra,  1/126  of  1/30. 

Jose  Romero,  1/14  of  1/30. 

Heirs  of  Salvador  Jaramillo,  1/2  of  1  30. 

It  is  further  ordered,  adjudged,  and  decreed  by  the  court  that  each 
share  of  the  said  premises,  as  hereinbefore  declared  and  set  forth,  shall 
he  charged  with  its  ratable  proportion  of  the  costs,  charges,  and 
expenses  of  this  suit  to  be  taxed;  and  that  an  allowance  be,  and  it  is 
hereby,  made  to  William  D.  Lee.  for  his  services  as  master  in  this 
cause,  of  the  sum  of  fifteen  hundred  dollars,  to  be  taxed  as  a  part  of 
the  costs  herein;  that  the  costs,  charges,  and  expenses  of  this  suit  be, 
and  they  hereby  are,  declared  to  be  a  lien  upon  the  lands  and  premises 
aforesaid,  and  upon  each  share  and  interest  as  hereinl)efore  set  forth 
for  its  proportionate  share  of  such  costs;  and  that  if  any  party  or  par- 
tics  to  this  suit  pay  more  than  his  or  their  due  proportionate  shares  of 
such  costs  and  expenses,  then  such  party  or  parties  shall  have  a  lien 
upon  all  interests  or  shares  in  the  said  lands  and  premises,  other  than 


292  NEW  statp:h()OD  bill. 

their  own,  for  the  repayuient  to  them  of  what  they  nia}*  have  paid  over 
and  above  their  due  proportionate  .shares  of  such  expenses. 

It  is  further  ordered,  adjudged,  and  decreed  by  the  court,  in  accord- 
ance with  the  reconnuendation  of  the  master,  that  of  the  said  lands, 
which  amount  to  lt>!>,567.92  acres  and  are  connuonly  icnown  by  the 
name  of  the  Cebolleta  g-rant.  4.5t)7.1'2  acres  l)e.  and  they  here))y  are, 
reserved  and  excluded  from  the  effect  of  this  decree  in  order  fully  to 
cover  the  amount  of  land  in  actual  possession  and  occupation  of  persons 
now  living-  on  the  said  grant,  no  proofs  having  been  snbmittedaccuratel}^ 
and  precisely  to  detine  and  limit  the  same. 

It  is  hereby  further  ordered,  adjudged,  and  decreed  by  the  court 
that  the  several  counsel  who  have  appeared  in  this  cause,  and  who  are 
L.  Bradford  Prince.  Ralph  E.  Twitchell.  Bernard  S.  Kodey,  and  F.  W. 
Clancy,  are  entitled  to,  and  are  hereby  declared  to  have,  liens  on  the 
shares  and  interests  of  their  respective  clients  in  the  said  lands  and 
premises,  as  herein  set  forth,  for  their  compensation  for  services 
rendered  in  this  suit. 

J.  W.  Cruivipacker, 

Associate  Justice^  c&c. 

Abelino  A.  Aguirre  et  al.  r.  Francisco  A.  Sarracino  et  al.     No.  -tTK). 

Upon  reading  and  tiling  the  petition  of  Miguel  Chaves  and  others, 
heirs  of  Juan  Antonio  Chaves  and  of  Salvador  Chaves,  two  of  the 
original  grantees  of  the  Cebolleta  grant,  from  which  it  appears  that  a 
portion  of  the  interest  of  said  two  grantees  has  been  reported  by  the 
master  as  belonging  to  the  heirs  of  fJose  de  riesus  Chaves,  el  Arriero, 
while  the  proofs  show  that  that  person  was  never  married,  and  had 
no  children,  and  after  hearing  F.  W.  Clancy,  attorney  for  said  peti- 
tioners, and  it  appearing  to  the  court  that  the  correction  prayed  in 
said  petition  can  have  no  possible  eli'ect  upon  the  interest  or  interests 
of  any  other  person  or  persons  who  have  been  reported  to  be  the 
owners  of  interests  in  the  said  grant, 

It  is  ordered,  adjudged,  and  decreed  by  the  court  that  the  decree 
about  to  be  entered  in  this  cause  be  corrected  and  amended  so  as  to  omit 
therefrom  the  statement  that  the  heirs  of  Jose  de  Jesus  Chaves,  el 
Arriero,  are  entitled  to  1  H  of  1  30  of  the  said  grant,  and  so  as  to  state 
the  interest  of  said  petitioners  and  of  Domingo  Chaves  in  the  said 
grant  to  be  as  follows: 

Miguel  Chaves,  2/9  of  1/30. 
Domingo  Chaves,  2/9  of  1/30. 
Jose  Vidal  Molina,  2/45  of  1/30. 
Serafino  Molina,  2/45  of  1/30. 
Crucita  Molina,  2/45  of  1/30. 
Venceslado  Molina,  2/45  of  1/30. 
Predicana  ^Molina,  2/45  of  1/30. 

It  is  further  ordered,  adjudged,  and  decreed  by  the  court  that  this 
supplemental  decree  shall  be  taken  and  considered  as  a  part  of  the 
final  decree  this  day  entered  herein. 

J.  \V.  Crumpacker, 
Associate  -/iistice,  ctx\ 
.Territory  of  New  Mexico, 

County  of  BtrnaJ'tlJo.  s.s: 
I,  W.  E.  Dame,  clerk  of  the  district  court  of  the  second  judicial  dis- 
trict of  the  Territoiy  of  New  Mexico,  within  and  for  the  county  of 


NEW  stat?:h()od  bill. 


298 


Bernalillo,  do  h(U'cl)y  cortity  the  above  and  foro.o-oing-to  bo  a  true,  cor- 
rect, and  complete  copy  of  a  final  judgment  and  order  aniendiniL;-  same, 
made  and  entered  of  record  in  that  certain  caii.se  lately  ])endino-  on  tlie 
docket  of  .said  court  wherein  Al>elino  A.  Ao-uirre  and  other.s  were 
plaintiffs,  and  Francisco  A.  Sarracino  and  others  were  defendants,  as 
the  orio-iuals  remain  of  record  and  on  tile  in  my  .said  office. 

In  witness  whereof  I  have  hereunto  set  my  hand  and  affixed  the  seal 
of  said  court  at  mv  office  in  Albuquerque,  New  Mexico,  this  14th  day 
of  November,  A.  D.  1!X)2. 

[seal.  J  W.  E.  Dame,  Clerh. 


EXHIBIT  G. 


('ondenscd  report  of  the  eond'tllon  of  the  First  National  Bank  of  Albuquerque  at  the  do>^e  of 

business  July  16,  190£. 


Resources. 

Liabilities. 

Loan.s,  discounts,  and  local  secur- 
ities  

$1,153,5,59.86 

39, 000. 00 

825, 307. 29 

312, 000. 00 

Capital,  surplus,  and  protits 

«202, 467. 78 

150,000.00 

] .  977, 399. 37 

Banking  house  and  fixtures 

Deposits 

Cash  and  exchange 

Total . 

United  States  bonds 

Total 

2, 329, 867. 15 

2,329,867.15 

EXHIBIT  H. 


Territorio  de  Nuevo  Mexico,  Condado  de : 

Ante  el  Hon. ,  juez  de  paz  del  precinto  No. ,  coii- 

dado  de — ,  Territorio  de  Nuevo  Mexico: 

,  debidamente  juramentado  expone  por  queja,  que  el 

dia de ,  A.  D.  de  190 — ,  dentro  del  precinto  No.  — — ,  con- 
dado  y  Territorio  arriba  dicho,  hay  y  alii,  a  eso  de  las de  la 

un  tal , 

Y  siendo  esto  en  contra  de  los  Estatiitos  del  Territorio  y  en  contra 
de  la  paz  y  dig-nitad  publica,  pido  que  sea  tornado  su  cuerpo  y  jiizgado 
segun  la  ley  que  corresponda. 


Testiy-os : 


Suscrito  y  juramentado  este  dia 


de 


A.  1).  de  190- 


Juez  dis  Puz  dd  Pfvcinfo  No. 


Notario  Piiblico. 


294 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


EXHIBIT  I. 

Arizona  school  ftfatixtim — Comparative  table,  ISSo  to  1002,  tnclusire. 


Year. 


1885 

1886 

1887 

1888 

1889 

1890 

1891 

1892 

1893 

1894 

1895 

1896 

1897 

1898 

1899 

1900 

1901 

1902 


Receipts. 


$186, 
159, 
120, 
157, 
179, 
201, 
236, 
247, 
266, 
205, 
211, 
219, 
219, 
250, 
295, 
421, 
411, 
530, 


Expendi- 

Number 

of 
schools. 

tures. 

S138. 164. 83 

137 

135, 030. 39 

150 

117,004.74 

169 

130,212.14 

184 

150, 543. 41 

197 

177,483.83 

219 

198,762.43 

237 

207,897.62 

251 

221,213.28 

265 

176, 671. 02 

289 

203,016.41 

261 

214, 450. 88 

293 

205, 949. 12 

337 

224, 185. 90 

347 

241, 555. 94 

375 

&45, 314. 29 

398 

336,838.80 

428 

401, 235. 59 

442 

Days  of 
school. 


120 
140 
143 
124 
135 
126 
127 
124 
130 
124 
120 
126 
128 
130 
127 
125 
128 
125 


Number  of 

census 
children. 


10,219 


Average 
daily  at- 
tendance. 


10, 303 


12, 588 
12, 976 
13, 874 
14, 710 
15, 463 
16, 203 
15, 909 
16, 936 
17,427 
18, 802 
19, 823 
20, 833 
23, 435 
25, 259 


3,326 
3,507 
3, 602 
3,849 
4,293 
4, 702 
5, 047 
5, 198 
5, 340 
6,791 
7.034 
7,641 
8,983 
9,011 
9,396 
10, 177 
10,921 
11, 514 


Value  of 

school 

property. 


S212, 389. 00 
201,984.00 
176, 238. 00 
222, 219. 00 
222,  9.58.  00 
268, 435. 00 
297,444.00 
320, 609. 00 
344, 646. 00 
405, 446. 00 
414,447.00 
428, 935. 00 
445, 379. 00 
472, 107. 00 
490, 504. 00 
.529, 024. 00 
612, 929. 00 
6.54, 942. 00 


EXHIBIT  J. 

We,  the  under.sig-ned.  in  behalf  of  the  Empire  State  Soeietv  of  Ari- 
zona, representing-  l.ouo  citizens  of  the  Salt  River  Valley,  and  thou- 
sands of  other  New  Yorkers  in  the  Territory  of  Arizona,  respectfully 
petition  your  honorable  body  to  grant  us  reenfranchisement. 

Lewis  Halsey,  President. 

T.  E.  Dalton,  Treasurer. 

C.  F.  AiNSwoKTH,  Vice- President. 


EXHIBIT  K. 


First  building-  Epworth  University.     Supported  by  joint  patronage 
of  both  branches  of  Methodist  Episcopal  Church  in  the  two  Territories. 
[On  account  of  lack  of  time,  illustration  omitted  in  printing.] 


EXHIBIT  L. 


MEMORIAL  PRAYING  FOR  THE  ADMISSION  OF  OKLAHOMA  INTO 
THE  UNION  AS  A  STATE. 

To  the  Congress  of  the  United  States: 

The  undersigned  respectfully  represent  that  a  statehood  convention 
was  held  at  Guthrie,  Okla.,  on  the  30th  day  of  January,  19(11,  called 
by  the  nonpartisan  statehood  executive  committee,  and  that  about  100 
delegates  were  in  attendance,  representing  all  parts  of  the  Territory 
and  all  the  political  partit\s. 

That  the  convention  thus  assembled  was  the  most  representative  in 
its  character  ever  held  in  Oklaiioma.  and  in  demanding  the  immediate 
admission  of  the  Territory  as  a  State  undout)tedly  expressed  the  sen- 
timent of  nine-tenths  of  the  people  on  the  statehood  question. 


NEW    BTATEHOOI)    HTLL.  295 

That  the  undorsio-nod  were  appointed  a  coinniittec  to  present  to  Con- 
gress the  clamis  of  Oklahoma  for  immediate  statehood.  In  pursuanee 
of  the  duty  devolved  upon  us  by  the  eonvention  we  further  represent: 

That  the  territory  within  the  boundaries  of  the  proposed  State  of 
Oklahoma  was  acquired  by  the  United  States  from  France  by  the 
treaty  of  April  30,  1808,  and  that  by  the  third  article  of  said  treaty 
the  people  of  Oklahoma  have  guaranteed  to  them  the  right  to  l)e 
admitted  into  the  Union  as  a  State  ''  as  soon  as  p()ssil)le  according  to 
the  })rinciples  of  the  Federal  Constitution.'"     (8  Stat.,  p.  202.) 

That  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma,  as  now  organized,  contains  39,030 
square  miles,  exceeding  the  total  area  of  the  6  States  of  Vermont, 
New  Hampshire,  Massachusetts,  Rhode  Island,  New  Jersey,  and  Dela- 
ware. There  are  12  States  now  in  the  Union  with  less  area  than  the 
proposed  State. 

That  Vjy  the  Federal  census  of  1900  the  Territory  had  a  population 
of  398,331,  of  which  109,191  were  of  voting  age  and  147,656  of  school 
age.  Since  that  time  new  lands  have  been  opened  to  settlement;  there 
has  been  a  large  immigration  into  all  sections  of  the  Territory,  and  a 
conservative  estimate  places  the  present  population  at  not  less  than 
500,000.  Nine  States  have  a  less  population  than  Oklahoma  now  has. 
The  average  population  of  22  States  admitted  since  the  original  13 
was  59,113,  the  highest  being  only  155,270.  Of  the  31  States  admitted, 
4  States  had  less  than  50,000  population  at  date  of  admission;  8  States 
less  than  75,000;  9  less  than  100,000;  6  less  than  200,000;  1  less  than 
300,000,  and  only  3  in  excess  of  300,000. 

That  the  assessed  valuation  of  property  for  the  year  1901  was 
$60,464,696,  the  property  being  listed  for  taxation  at  less  than  one- 
third  its  actual  value.  Sixteen  States  had  less  taxable  property  at  the 
time  of  admission.  Before  Oklahoma  would  become  a  State  under 
the  operation  of  an  enabling  act  passed  by  the  present  Congress  the 
real  value  of  her  taxable  property  would  be  largely  in  excess  of 
$200,000,000. 

That  the  capacity  of  Oklahoma  for  agricultural  production  is  fully 
equal  to  that  of  any  State  in  the  Union  of  the  same  area.  The  wheat 
crop  of  1901  reached  25,000,000  bushels;  cotton,  140,000  bales,  and 
the  corn  crop  (1900)  60,000,000  bushels.  No  section  of  the  Union 
produces  a  greater  variety  of  crops,  or  with  more  uniform  success. 

That  according  to  the  report  of  the  secretary  of  the  Oklahoma  Live 
Stock  Association,  the  total  number  of  cattle  in  the  Territory  is 
1  500,000;  horses,  365,000;  swine,  400,000;  mules,  75,000;  sheep, 
45,000,  making  a  grand  total  of  2,385,000. 

That  about  1,200  miles  of  railroad  are  in  operation  in  the  Territor_y 
at  the  present  time,  and  that  more  than  400  miles  are  in  process  of 
construction.  Railroad  lines  are  now  projected  and  building  that  will 
reach  every  county  in  the  Territory  and  make  a  connection  with  all 
the  great  railroad  svstems  of  the  surrounding  States. 

That  at  the  end  of  the  last  fiscal  year  there  were  113  Territorial 
and  31  national  banks,  with  $16,495,465  resources  and  $12,512, Olf) 
deposits.  At  the  same  date  the  total  T'erritorial  indebtedness  was 
onlv  1466,220. 

That  the  common  schools  of  the  Territory  and  the  higher  institu- 
tions of  learning  in  their  organization  and  excellence  are  equal  to 
those  of  any  State  in  the  I'nion.  There  are  2,096  school  districts, 
a  Territorial    university,   two   normal   schools,   an   agricultural   and 


296  NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL. 

mechanical  college,  and  a  normal  university  for  colored  students. 
These  institutions  are  liberally  supported  by  the  Territory,  and  about 
2,000  young  men  and  women  are  in  attendance.  The  annual  expendi- 
ture for  the  sup])ort  of  the  common  scliools  is  about  $1,000,00(1.  The 
census  shows  that  there  is  less  illiteracy  tlian  in  any  State  in  the 
Union,  and  less  than  5  per  cent  of  foreign-born  population. 

That  the  lands  reserved  foi-  the  common  schools,  public  buildinos, 
and  penal  and  charitable  institutions  for  the  future  State  amount  to 
2,050,000  acres.  These  lands  are  now  leased  under  an  act  of  Con- 
gress and  have  produced  a  net  revenue  of  $1,000,000.  An  insane 
asylum  and  penitentiary  are  badly  needed,  and  it  is  the  desire  of  the 
people  of  the  Territory  that  they  be  constructed  under  the  direction 
of  a  State  government. 

That  there  are  22  daily,  108  weekly,  20  monthlv,  and  4  semimonthly 
newspapers  and  periodicals  published  in  the  Territory. 

That  at  the  election  in  li>00,  72,352  votes  were  cast  for  Delegate  to 
Congress.  This  muiiber  was  in  excess  of  the  total  vote  in  each  of  the 
following  States:  Delaware,  Florida,  Idaho,  Louisiana,  Mississippi, 
Montana,  Nevada,  North  Dakota,  Rhode  Island,  South  Carolina,  Ver- 
mont, and  Wyoming. 

That  the  undeveloped  resources  of  the  Territory  promise  for  the 
proposed  State  a  magniticent  future.  Coal,  oil,  gas,  salt,  asphaltum, 
granite,  and  zinc  are  already  discovered  in  almndance,  and  there  are 
evidences  of  gold  and  silver  in  the  Wichita  Mountains. 

That  in  all  the  elements  that  go  to  make  up  an  ad\'anced  and  pro- 
gressive civilization,  in  the  number  of  its  population,  and  in  the  nvate- 
rial  resources  necessarv  to  sustain  a  state  government,  Oklahoma  is 
far  in  advance  of  any  Territory  ever  admitted.  On  the  28d  of  ]Niay, 
1896,  the  Committee^  on  Territories  of  the  House  of  Representatives 
reported  in  favor  of  the  admission  of  Oklahoma,  concluding  the  report 
as  follows: 

In  the  opinion  of  the  committee  no  Territory  has  ever  been  Ijetter  fitted  to  enter 
the  Union  as  a  State. 

Your  memorialists  call  attention  to  the  report  of  the  governor  of 
the  Territory,  setting  forth  the  most  remarkable  development  of  the 
last  few  years.  A¥hile  his  report  reads  like  a  romance,  it  is  neverthe- 
less true.     The  governor  well  says: 

Here  to-day  is  a  growing,  progressive  American  community  of  more  than  half  a 
million  ])eople,  successful  in  all  lines  of  life  work,  with  schools  and  colleges  and 
universities  beyond  those  of  half  the  States;  with  a  code  of  laws  equal  to  those  of 
any  State;  with  a  taxable  wealth  sufficient  to  carry  on  all  of  the  functions  and  insti- 
tutions of  self-government  without  burdening  the  people.  Who,  then,  can  give  any 
good  reason  why  all  the  rights  and  priWleges  of  self-government  should  not  be 
accorded  these  people?  Let  him  wlio  disputes  the  claim  of  Oklahoma  to  a  place  in 
the  galaxy  of  States  carefully  peruse  the  pages  of  this  report  as  showing  the  past 
progress,  "present  conditiims  and  future  possibilities  of  the  Territory,  and  he  can 
not  but  be  convinced,  even  against  his  will,  of  her  right  to  statehood.  With  a 
population  greater  than  that  of  any  Territory  ever  admitted  to  statehood,  and 
greater  than  that  of  twelve  different  States  of  the  Union  at  this  time;  with  a 
taxable  valuation  greater  than  that  of  any  State  of  the  Union  at  its  admission; 
with  a  school  population  almost  double"  the  average  population  of  all  of  the 
States  when  granted  self-government;  with  an  area  almost  equal  to  that  of  the 
State  of  Ohio,  and  greater  than  that  of  thirteen  States;  with  a  free  school  within 
easv  distance  of  every  home  and  a  higher  college  or  university  education  offered 
wit'hout  prit;e  to  all  of  the  youth  of  the  Territory,  of  whatever  race  or  sex  or  condi- 
tion; with  well-governed  cities  and  counties,  and  laws  enforced  in  every  way;  with 
a  people  96  per  cent  American  born,  and  all  loyal  and  patriotic  citizens;  with  an 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  297 

annual  prodnrtiDU  of  25,000,000  bushels  of  wheat,  00,000,000  l.uslicls  of  eorii,  150,000 
l)aleH  of  cotton,  and  other  ajj:ricultural  products  in  proportion,  and  herds  that  pas.s 
the  million  mark;  with  a  financial  record  without  a  stain  of  default  or  rei)udiation; 
with  a  financial,  conunercial,  and  business  growth  ecjualed  ])y  no  other  State  or  Ter- 
ritory, is  not  Oklahoma  clearly  entitled  to  admission  to  the  sisterhood  of  States? 

In  (.•oiu-lusioM.  we  call  the  attontion  of  Conoross  to  the  fact  that  res- 
olutions were  adopted  ])y  all  the  Presidential  iiominatino-  conventions 
in  1900,  promising-  the  admission  of  Territories  as  States.  The  people 
of  Oklahoma  now  ask  that  the  pledges  thus  made  be  redeemed,  and 
that  they  be  allowed  to  enjoy  the  rights  and  benetits  which  belong-  to 
the  people  of  a  sovereign  State. 
Respectfully  submitted. 

Sidney  Clarke. 
A.  J.  Seay, 

F.   E.   (ilLLETT, 

Dick  T.  MoR(iAN, 
Meat  or'tal  L  'omm  It  tec. 


EXHIBIT  M. 


A  STATEMENT  IN  REGARD  TO  THE  OKLAHOMA  FEDERAL  LAND 
GRANT,  PRESENTED  BY  THE  NORMAN  COMMERCIAL  CLUB,  OF 
NORMAN,  OKLA. 

To  the  Coiinnittee  on  Territories,  United  States  Senate,  Hon.  Albert  J. 
Beveridge,  chainnan: 

I.  A  Statement  of  Conditions. 

1.  Oklahoma  has  a  Federal  land  grant  of  some  2,060,000  acres 
(nearly  seventeen-twentieths  of  the  grant  being-  for  education)  now 
leased' on  three-year  leases  and  yielding  a  rapidly  increasing  income. 

2.  A  gain  or  loss  of  but  50  cents  an  acre  on  these  lands  means  a  gain 
or  loss  of  §1,000,000  to  Oklahoma. 

3.  Some  8,0(»0or  10.000  lessees  are  strongly  organized  to  control  the 
tirst  State  legislature  and  force  the  sale  of  the  lands  ''as  raw  lands." 
They  have  paid  lobbyists,  attorneys,  and  "  official  organs  "  working  to 
that  end. 

4.  The  Flynn  statehood  bill  provides  no  minimum  price  for  the  lands. 
Moreover,  the  bill  has  been  construed  by  an  ex-attorney -general  for 
Oklahoma  as  making  the  sale  of  the  lands  mandatory  without  giving- 
the  citizens  of  Oklahoma  a  chance  to  vote  on  the  question. 

5.  The  people  of  Oklahoma  are  not  yet  awake  to  the  magnitude  of 
these  interests,  to  their  duty  to  posterity,  or  to  their  general  responsi- 
bility as  guardians  of  this  great  trust.  If  the  question  of  the  disposi- 
tion of  these  lands  Avere  to  come  to  a  popidar  ))allot  within  the  next' 
year,  the  interests  of  the  State  and  the  schools,  both  present  and  future, 
would  in  all  prol^aliility  be  sacrificed  to  the  demands  of  the  lessees. 

6.  Because  of  the  strength  and  aggressiveness  of  the  lessee  org-ani- 
zation  and  the  seeming  indifference  of  the  general  public,  the  politicians 
of  ))oth  parties,  in  order  to  secure  the  support  of  the  lessees,  are,  for 
the  most  part,  willing-  to  sacritice  the  lands  by  immediate  sale  at  a 
nominal  price. 


298  NEW    STATEHOOD    KILL. 

7.  The  historv  of  like  endowments  in  other  States  shows  that  theii' 
disposition  has  crenerally  been  attended  l)y  g-ross  fraud  and  shameful 
public  plunder  and  that  the  resulting  funds  frequently  have  been 
em])ezzled  and  squandered  or  invested  in  bad  securities  and  in  a  per- 
petual bonded  State  indebtedness. 

The  following  States  are  indebted,  in  the  sums  named,  to  their  educa- 
tional funds: 

Illinois $1,165,000 

Wisconsin 1,  563,  000 

Missouri 4,  300,  000 

Michigan : "4,  300, 000 

Ohio  ; 4,  500,  000 

These  sums  have  been  used  by  the  States  named  for  current  expenses 
and  public  improvements,  and  now  stand  as  irreducible  State  debts,  on 
which  the  present  and  all  future  generations  must  raise  interest  income 
by  taxation. 

II.  The  Friends  of  this  Interest  Desire — 

1.  Such  a  clause  in  the  statehood  bill  now  before  Congress  as  will 
give  the  citizens  of  Oklahoma  a  direct  vote  on  the  question  of  the  sale 
of  these  lands. 

'1.  Because  of  the  strong  organization  to  force  the  sale  of  the  lands 
at  a  price  far  less  than  their  real  value,  we  desire  a  clause  in  the  l)ill 
that  will  take  the  lands  oti'  the  market  for  the  next  five  years,  until  the 
(juestion  of  their  sale  can  be  put  fairly  ))efore  the  people  of  Oklahoma, 
and  the}'  realize  the  tremendous  interests  at  stake. 

3.  As  Nebraska  and  the  city  of  Chicago  are  meeting-  with  great  suc- 
cess with  a  public-leasing  system  on  long-time  leases,  we  ask  that  the 
statehood  bill  permit  the  State  of  Oklahoma,  if  it  will,  to  adopt  a  sys- 
tem of  long-time  leases  (say  twenty-tive  years)  to  the  occupying  lessees, 
with  provisions  under  our  constitution  for  fair  reappraisements  at 
reasonable  intervals. 

•1.  As  our  public  lands  are  unevenly  distributed  over  the  Territory, 
causing  local  jealousies  by  loss  of  iocal  taxes,  it  is  important  that 
Congress  permit  us,  under  a  leasing  s^^stem,  to  refund  to  the  country, 
township,  or  school  district  in  which  a  given  tract  of  public  land  lies 
such  a  per  cent  of  the  net  income  from  that  tract  as  our  constitutional 
convention  may  provide  (but  not  to  exceed,  say.  'lb  per  cent),  except 
that  where  the  lands  have  been  selected  in  large  solid  bodies,  as  in  the 
indemnity  lands,  or  where  public  lands  ha\-e  been  or  may  lie  laid  out 
and  leased  as  town  or  city  lots,  a  sum  not  to  exceed,  say,  40  or  50  per 
cent  of  the  net  ground  rentals  from  such  lands  or  lots  may  be  refunded 
to  the  county,  township,  school  district,  city,  or  town  in  which  such 
tract  lies,  said  refunded  sums  to  })e  used  locally  for  such  educational  or 
other  pul)lic  ^xirposes  as  the  legislature  acting  under  our  constitution 
may  provide.  Such  refunding  can  not  be  done  without  permission  of 
Congress  and  is  highly  essential  to  the  establishment  of  a  smooth  and 
safe  working  management  of  the  grant. 

6.  The  heart  of  the  matter  is  this:  In  making  the  Federal  land  grant 
Congress  should  see  to  it  that  the  endowment  is  secured  to  the  intended 
beneficiaries  and  that  it  is  not  turned  over  to  the  State  unprotected, 
probably  to  fall  under  the  control  of  an  organization  whose  self-seeking 
would  defeat  the  purposes  of  Congress  in  making  this  grant. 

«  Or  more. 


NKW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  299 

ADDITIONAL    STATEMENT. 

Ohio  was  admitted  in  1S()2,  l)ut  was  not  authorized  by  Conoress  to 
sell  her  school  lands  until  1820  (4  U.  S.  Stats.,  138),  nor  her  salt  lands, 
which  were  devoted  to  education,  until  1824.     (4  V.  S.  Stats.,  79.) 

Indiana  was  admitted  in  181<),  but  was  not  authorized  by  Congress 
to  sell  her  school  lands  until  1828  (4  V.  S.  Stats.,  2!>8),  nor  her  salt 
lands,  which  likewise  were  deyoted  to  education,  until  1832.  (4  U.  S. 
Stats.,  5.58.) 

Illinois  was  admitted  in  18 18.  She  sold  her  school  lands  without 
authority  from  Congress  in  1831.  (Illinois  laws  1831,  173.)  Congress 
in  1843  legalized  and  ratified  all  sales  thus  made  (5  U.  S.  Stats.,  600) 
and  authorized  the  sale  of  the  remaining  portion. 

These  facts  should  furnish  sufficient  precedent  for  holding  up  the 
sale  of  Oklahoma's  lands  for  a  reasonable  period,  such  as  is  asked  in 
this  memorial.  A  mininuun  sale  price  and  a  time  limitation  would 
haye  the  same  purpose  in  yiew,  yiz.  to  secure  the  State  in  its  endow- 
ment. We  belieye  the  time  limitation  would  serye  the  purpose  more 
etlectiyely. 

There  is  no  excuse  for  haste  in  the  disposition  of  this  grant.  The 
State  should  be  giyen  a  chance  to  make  a  fair  tight  for  its  interests. 

L.  J.  Edwards,  President. 

November  24,  1902. 


THE    NORMAN    COMMERCIAL    CLUB    GOES    ON    RECORD   AGAINST   THE    SALE 
OF   THE    SCHOOL    LANDS    OF    OKLAHOMA. 

Tuesda}^  night,  November  18, 1902,  the  Commercial  Club  of  Norman, 
by  a  unanimous  vote,  passed  the  following  resolutions; 

"  Whereas  the  Federal  Goyernment  has  granted  to  the  future  State 
of  Oklahoma  an  endowment  of  some  2,000,000  acres  of  public  lands,  of 
which  nearly  seventeen-twentieths  is  expressly  reserved  for  educational 
purposes;  and 

Whereas  approaching  statehood  will  force  upon  Oklahoma  the  adop- 
tion of  some  permanent  policy  relative  to  this  great  endowment;  and 

Whereas  the  history  of  similar  endowments  in  other  States  shows 
that  their  disposition  has  been  attended  l)y  gross  frauds  and  shameful 
scenes  of  public  plunder  whereby  the  intended  beneficiaries  in  many 
cases  have  been  deprived  of  the  greater  part  of  their  endowment;  and 

Whereas  the  sale  of  our  public  lands  would  not  enable  Oklahoma  to 
avoid  some  form  of  tenant  systeuL  as  witness  Kansas,  with  «iO,92() 
tenant  farms,  all  private  (census  of  1900),  as  against  Nebraska,  with 
44,810  tenant  farms  (25,000  of  them  under  State  control),  and  witness, 
further,  the  entire  United  States,  with  35.3  ])er  cent  of  its  farms  held 
under  the  private  tenant  system;  and 

Whereas  Nebraska  has  developed  a  highly  successful  plan  of  State 
leasing  for  its  unsold  school  lands;  and 

Whereas  we  believe  that  a  public  system  of  long-time  leasing  to 
present  occupants,  with  provisions  for  fair  reappraisements  at  reason- 
able intervals,  would  best  conserve  the  interests  of  the  pul>lic,  avoid 
the  daup-ers  of  loss  by  embezzlement  and  bad  investment,  from  which 


HOO  NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL. 

the  school  funds  of  otluu-  Stat(\s  have  sutiVrod,  and  at  the  same  time 
be  just  and  fair  toward  the  lessees;  and 

Whereas  the  school-land  lessees,  in  close  and  powerful  oi'oanization, 
have  publicly  resolved  to  force  the  innnediate  sah*  of  thcs(>  lands  to 
themselves ''as  raw  lands"  and  to  support  oidy  such  candidates  for 
the  leyislature  as  will  work  to  this  end:  Therefore, 

Br  !f  ju.solrrd  bt/  tlte  (Jomnierddl  Chib  of  Noniud)^  (Jkh(.: 

1.  That  we  unalterably  oppose  any  action  lookin^f  to  the  sale  of 
these  lands  except  it  be  of  certain  portions  of  the  indemnity  lands 
where  public  policy  may  render  their  sale  expedient. 

2.  That  we  favor  the  insertion  of  a  clause  in  the  pending  statehood 
bill  prohibitino-  tht^  sale  of  these  lands  for  a  period  of  five  years  after 
admission  to  statehood  and  not  thereafter  until  the  electors  of  the 
State  shall  have  so  directed  by  popular  ])aIlot. 

3.  That  we  favor  the  insertion  of  a  section  in  the  State  constitution 
that  will  ]>ut  the  management  of  this  endowment  on  a  conservative, 
nonpartisan,  l)usiness  basis  in  the  intiM'ests  of  the  people  and  the 
schools  of  Oklahoma,  thereby  removing-  this  question  from  the  pos- 
sibility of  legislative  juggling  and  eliminating  it  as  an  issue  in  the 
future  politics  of  the  State. 

4.  That  this  resolution  be  furnished  the  Territorial  press  with 
request  to  publish,  and  to  the  various  commercial  organizations  of  the 
Territory. 

L.  J.   Edwards,  President. 
November  24,  1902. 


CONVENTION  CLOSED  YESTERDAY — THE  LESSEES  FORM  PERMANENT 
ORGANIZATION — COUNTIES  WILL  ORGANIZE — THE  TERRITORIAL  OFFI- 
CIALS WERE  ELECTED — CONSTITUTION  WAS  ADOPTED — STRONG  BODY 
0R(;ANIZED  to  SECLTRE  the  sale  of  SCHC^OL  lands  of  the  TERRI- 
TORY. 

[OkliihoiiiM  City  Tiines-.Touriial  of  Tuesday,  July  29,  1902.] 

The  convention  of  the  school-land  lessees  yesterda^y  closed  after  the 
election  of  the  officers  and  the  passage  of  a  resolution  that  there  be 
meetings  held  in  each  county  of  the  Territory  in  wdiich  the  school 
lands  are  located  on  Tuesday.  August  12,  at  which  time  there  are  to  ])e 
county  organizations  formed. 

The  following  is  the  list  of  ofHcei-s  elected: 

The  four  candidates  nominated  for  the  presidency  were  C.  ^V.  Oliu- 
stead,  A.  C.  Notson.  J.  R.  Cowg(M-,  and  N.  D.  March.  A  majority  of 
all  votes  cast  was  recpiired,  the  candidate  getting  the  smallest  vote  to 
drop  out  of  the  contest. 

The  tirst  ballot  resulted  as  follows: 

Olmstead,  227;  Notson,  88;  Cowger,  217;  March,  m.     (598  ballots.) 

Second  ballot:  Olmstead,  1:18;  Notson,  SS;  Cowger,  316. 

Mr.  Olmstead  was  declared  unanimously  elected  and  made  a  neat 
speech  of  thanks.     His  home  is  at  Luther. 

For  secretarv  the  first  ballot  resulted: 

L.  Bissell,  241;  A.  McTaggart,  250;  A.  C.  Notson,  2o7. 

Second  ballot:  McTaggart,  315;  Bissell,  431.     (74H  ballots.) 

Mr.  Bissell  resides  at  Kildare,  Kay  County. 

For  treasurer  the  first  ballot  resulted  as  follows: 

J.  B.  Tate,  of  Perrv,  375;  J.  W.  Stonebraker,  of  Lincoln  County, 
284.     (659  ballots.) 


NEW  statp:h«h>d   hill.  301 

The  followiiio"  is  the  constitution  that  was  adopted  l)y  the  convention 
for  the  permanent  organization: 

This  organization  shall  be  known  as  The  Territorial  Lessees'  Union. 

Article  L  Having  as  its  object  the  proniotion  of  the  moral,  financial,  and  general 
welfare  of  the  lessees  of  school  lands  in  Oklahoma  and  the  promotion  of  all  other 
matters  affecting  the  leasing,  jjreservation,  imiirovenient,  and  sale  of  snch  lands. 

Akt.  2.  This  organization  shall  )>e  conn)oseil  of  the  several  county  organizations 
organized  for  like  purposes  in  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma,  which  said  county  organi- 
zations shall  be  cunstituted  toext-rcise  the  powers  hereinafter  stated. 

Art.  3.  The  otiicers  of  this  organization  shall  be  a  president,  as  many  vice-i)resi- 
<lents  as  there  are  county  organizations,  a  secretary,  and  a  treasurer,  which  otiicers 
shall  hold  their  offices  until  the  first  Tuesday  in  January,  1904,  and  until  their  suc- 
cessors are  elected  and  qualified,  and  shall  liold  thereafter  for  a  term  of  two  years. 

Art.  4.  The  several  officers  herein  enumerated  shall  exercise  snch  power  and  i)er- 
form  such  functions  as  are  usual  to  such  oflicers  in  similar  organizations;  and,  in 
ad<lition  to  such  otlier  powers,  the  president  and  the  several  vice-i)residents  shall  be 
and  constitute  an  executive  board. 

Art.  5.  It  shall  be  the  duty  of  this  executive  board  to  appoint  proper  legislative 
committees  to  draft  and  transmit  memorials  and  resolutions  and  to  arrange  for  litera- 
ture and  the  publication  and  j)r()mulgation  of  the  purposes  of  such  organization,  and 
to  arrange  for  and  secure  counsel  for  the  protection  of  the  interests  of  the  members 
hereof  in  the  courts,  and  perform  such  other  detail  work  as  may  from  time  to  time 
be  imposed  upon  them  by  the  Territoiial  convention  of  the  organization. 

It  shall  be  the  further  duty  of  such  executive  board,  at  such  times  and  place  as  in 
their  judgment  they  may  determine,  to  call  a  Territorial  convention  of  this  organiza- 
tion, which  convention  shall  be  composed  of  delegates  from  the  several  county  organi- 
zations based  upon  the  number  of  members  upon  the  rolls  of  each  of  said  county 
organizations. 

Art.  6.  The  county  organizations  herein  provided  for  shall  be  an  organization 
coextensive  with  thecounty  in  which  it  is  organized  and  l)e  comj)osed  of  all  persons 
residing  in  such  county  having  the  qualificati(jns  hereinafter  enumerated.  The 
officers  of  such  county  organization  shall  be  a  jiresident,  vice-president,  secretary 
and  treasurer,  together  with  such  committees  as  each  county  organization  may  deter- 
mine and  appoint. 

Art.  7.  All  persons  of  lawful  age  and  lessees  of  any  school,  college,  or  public  build- 
ing lands  in  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma  shall  be  eligible  to  membership  in  the  organ- 
ization of  the  county  of  which  he  is  a  resident. 

Art.  8.  The  county  organization  shall  meet  at  such  time  and  consider  sucfi  matters 
and  things  as  they,  by  the  by-laws,  shall  determine  not  inconsistent  with  the  pur- 
poses hereinbefore  expressed. 

Art.  9.  This  constitution  may  be  amended  upon  a  proposition  made  by  a  majority 
vote  of  any  properly  vaWed  Territorial  convention  after  same  shall  be  ratified  by  the 
majority  of  the  county  organizations. 

Art.  iO.  The  executive  board  of  the  Territorial  organization  is  hereby  empowered 
to  draft  such  by-laws  as  are  not  inconsistent  with  this  constitution,  which  by-laws 
must  be  submitted  to  and  may  l)e  repealed  by  the  next  succeeding  Territorial  con- 
vention; and  the  county  organizations  shall  draft  such  by-laws  as  are  not  inconsistent 
herewith,  through  aiid'hy  means  of  which  such  instrumentalities  as  they  may  deter- 
mine. 

Art.  11.  The  executive  committee  shall  meet  jnirsuantto  the  call  of  the  chairman 
and  secvetary  of  which  ten  days'  notice  shall  be  given  to  each  member  of  the  execu- 
tive committee.  The  chairman  shall  call  a  meeting  of  the  executive  committee  when 
l^etitioned  by  at  least  12  members  of  the  committee,  which  meeting  shall  beat  the 
Territorial  capital. 

SCHOOL-LAND  LESSEES  MEET  —  ALL  BUT  FIVE  COUNTIES  ARE  RErRE- 
SENTED  —  THE  ATTENDANCE  IS  LARGE  —  OKLAHOMA,  LINCOLN,  AND 
NOBLE  BEST  REPRESENTED — A  PERMANENT  ORGANIZATION  —  CON- 
VENTION WAS  CALLED  TO  ORDER  BY  J.  R.  COWCJER — COMMITTEES 
APPOINTED. 

[Oklahoma  City  Times-Journal,  Tuesday,  .Tuly  29,  1902.] 

Over  100  school-land  lessees  of  Oklahoma  Territory  met  in  con\en- 
tion  at  the  court-house  this  inornino-.     All  counties  were  represented 


302  NEW   statp:h(>()D  kill. 

with  the  exception  of  Cii^iter,  Logan,  Gartield,  Wa«hita,  Greer,  and 
Beaver.  The  best-represented  counties  were  Oklahoma.  Noble,  and 
Lincoln.  The  convention  was  called  to  ord(M'  at  2  o'clock,  after  which 
J.  K.  (/owger.  of  Wellston,  was  made  temporary  chairman  and  L. 
Bissell,  of  Kildare.  Kay  County,  temporary  secretary. 

The  selection  of  temporary  otiicials  was  then  followed  by  the  appoint- 
ment of  committees  on  credentials,  resolutions,  order  of  business, 
constitution,  and  by-laws. 

A.  delegate  f  rom^  each  county  represented  was  placed  on  the  com- 
mittees mentioned  above.  After  the  appointment  of  committees  the 
convention  adjourned  until  1.30  o'clock  this  afternoon. 

In  conversation  with  a  representative  of  this  paper  this  afternoon. 
Secretary  Bissell  said: 

This  organization  will  be  made  permanent,  and  the  purpose  of  this  convention  is 
for  the  making  of  a  law  to  protect  the  school-land  lessees  and  future  sale  of  lands, 
and  to  give  the  lessees  the  preference  to  purchase  the  lands  when  Oklahoma  becomes 
a  State. 

This  afternoon  at  2  o'clock  Chairman  Cowger  called  the  convention  to  order,  with 
all  delegates  present.  The  committee  on  credentials  made  a  report  to  the  effect  that 
all  counties  should  be  entitled  to  representation  with  the  exception  of  Gai-field, 
Kiowa,  Washita,  Custer,  Day,  and  <;reer.  The  report  was  adopted.  <  )n  motion  each 
delegate  was  allowed  to  cast  the  full  vote  for  the  county  he  represented. 

The  committee  on  permanent  organization  then  reported  its  business 
tran.sacted  during  the  noon  hour.  The  committee  recommended  that 
the  organization  shall  be  known  as  the  Tnited  Lessees'  Union  of  Okla- 
homa. The  committee  also  recommended  that  the  otficers  of  the  asso- 
ciation be  coiuposed  of  a  president,  vice-president,  secretary,  and 
treasurer  and  that  each  officer  serve  for  a  period  of  one  year  and  that 
the  voting  be  done  by  ballot.  The  report  Avas  laid  aside  for  the  pres- 
ent.    The  organization  was  then  made  permanent. 

The  chairman  here  appointed  Messrs.  Durand,  Taggart.  and  Smith  to 
pi'cpare  an  order  of  business. 

The  committee  on  resolutions  then  reported  as  follows: 

First.  RexolrcfJ,  That  we  emphatically  express  our  dissent  to  the  idea  that  these 
lands  should  be  under  a  perpetual  tenant  system. 

Second.  That  we  therefore  demand  that  such  legal  action  shall  be  taken  by  our 
first  State  legislature  regarding  these  lands  that  will  bring  them  to  sale  at  as  early  a 
date  as  practicable,  at  an  appraised  valuation  as  raw  lands  according  to  quality,  the 
lessees  to  have  the  preference  right  of  purchase  at  the  appraised  value,  and  be 
secure  in  the  value  of  the  improvements  he  has  placed  upon  the  farm. 

Third.  That  we  V)elieve  that  this  can  be  done  in  such  a  way  as  to  secure  the  ten- 
ants in  their  just  rights  and  at  the  same  time  protect  the  Oklahoma  school  land 
from  loss. 

Fourth.  That  if  any  lessee  should  fail  to  purchase  at  appraised  value  the  same 
shall  l)e  sold  to  the  highest  Ijidder,  and  said  purchaser  to  pay  for  improvements  on 
said  land. 

Fifth.  That  we  pledge  ourselves  to  the  support  of  such  men  to  the  Territorial  legis- 
lature as  will  do  all  in  their  power  to  bring  the  school  lands  on  the  market  in  accord- 
ance with  the  above  resolutions. 

Sixth.  That  the  Territorial  convention  pass  a  vote  of  thanks  to  the  press  for  their 
kindness  in  publishing  a  call  for  this  convention. 

A.  McTAG(iEHT,  Chairman. 
C.  W.  Olmsted,  Secretan/. 

The  above  report  was  passed  as  read. 

It  was  advocated  that  the  land  east  of  range  l-t  be  sold  in  quarter 
sections  and  the  land  west  of  there  be  sold  in  sections.  Officers  to 
serve  until  the  tirst  Tuesday  in  January,  1902,  will  be  elected  late  this 
afternoon. 


APPENDIX. 

Santa  Fe,  N.  Mex.,  X<n^t')i<hr IJ,  1902. 

Hon.  Albert  J.  Beveridge, 

Vlinlrrimn  Commlttte  on  Territories^  United  StdteH  Scnutr. 

Sir:  AgTeeal)le  to  your  request,  I  have  the  honor  to  transmit  here- 
with a  list  of  teachers  of  the  hrst  and  second  orades  enipk^yed  in  the 
l)ublic-schools  work  of  this  Territory.  The  list  docs  not  include  the 
names  of  some  200  tinichers  of  third  orade  employed  in  the  interior 
country  schools,  and  who,  under  our  statutes,  must  "possess  a  knowl- 
edge of  both  English  and  Spanish."  This  class  of  teachers  is  recjuired 
to  pass  an  examination  in  the  English  language  before  county  boards 
of  examiners,  composed  of  the  county  school  superintendent  and  two 
(jualitied  citizens  designated  by  the  United  States  district  judge,  and 
such  list  of  teachers  is  not  now  available  for  inclusion  herein,  because 
oidy  within  thirty  days  past,  as  the  law  directs,  have  the  official  blanks 
!)(M>n  sent  out  for  animal  reports  ])y  county  superintendents.  These 
are  now  being  received,  but  can  not  be  tabulated  before  December  31. 
upon  which  date  the  supei'intendent  of  pubHc  instruction  is  rcfjuired 
to  make  anmial  report  to  the  governor  of  the  Territory. 

Nor  does  the  list  herewith  presented  include  another  very  important 
group  of  teachers  who  for  many  years  past  have  contributed  much  to 
the  educationid  advancement  of  the  youth  of  New  Mexico-— i.  e..  the 
several  sectarian  institutions  which  "employ  160  teachers,  of  which  72 
are  Roman  Catholic  and  87  represent  the  Protestant  faith.  Presbyte- 
rian, Methodist,  Baptist,  and  Congregational— and  which  own  school 
]n-operty  in  the  Territory  to  the  value  of  .^250,000  and  train  annually 
some  6,000  pupils. 

Also  there  is  excluded  from  this  list  the  names  of  teachers  engaged 
in  private  sectarian  mission  and  Government  Indian  education— such 
schools  in  New  Mexico  numbering  38,  employing  110  teachers  and 
giving  instruction  to  nearly  2.500  Indian  children. 

As  far  as  can  be  approximated  from  reports  thus  far  rendered  and 
covering  the  current  year,  the  total  numl)er  of  school-teachers  employed 
in  New^  Mexico  at  tliis  time  is  1.100,  who  are  engaged  in  the  training 
of  more  than  50,000  pupils  to  the  true  standard  of  American  citizen- 
ship, and  the  total  value  of  our  school  pi'operty  is  fully  ^2.500.000. 

In  this  connection  your  honorable  committee  will,  under  the  circum- 
stances, I  hope,  pardon  me  for  quoting  here  an  extract  from  a  former 
report,  as  follows: 

While  it  is  a  fact  that  New  Mexico  for  many  years  has  directly  taxed  her  people 
more  heavily  per  capita  for  the  establishment  and  maintenance  of  a  good  system  of 
public  schools  than  four-fifths  of  the  older  States  in  the  ITnion,  we  have  been  per- 
sistently held  up  to  public  scorn,  and  often  grossly  misrepresented  at  Wasliington 
and  throughout  the  Eastern  States  for  our  alleged  lack  of  school  facilities  and  reputed 
want  of  interest  in  educational  matters.     *    *    * 

303 


304  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

This  Territory  has  been  neglected  and  uncared  for  by  the  National  Government  in 
resi)eet  to  ednoational  matters  for  more  than  fifty  years,  while  to-day  we  witness  the 
sending  of  school-teachers  in  shiijloads  to  I\)rto  Rico,  Cuba,  and  the  Philippines,  at 
Government  expense.  If,  half  a  century  ago,  as  by  every  moral  and  humane  right 
they  should  have  done,  the  United  States  had  thus  sent  train  loads  of  teachers  into 
New  Mexico,  this  population  would  rank  to-day  with  the  most  enlightened  com- 
numities  of  our  common  country.  Instead,  the  Federal  Government  has  i)ersistently 
ignored  the  true  citizenship  of  the  Territory,  but  has  taxed  them  to  contribute  to  its 
sul)stance,  a  part  of  which  is  being  expended  to-day  to  educate  the  Porto  Rican  and 
the  Filipino,  for  the  "education" — God  save  the  mark — of  several  thousand  long- 
haired, blanketed  Indians. 

Therefore,  for  what  they  have  learned  the  people  of  New  Mexico  are  entitled  to 
the  more  credit,  owing  to  the  fact  that  the  parent  Government  has  never  given  one 
cent  toward  the  uplifting  of  the  masses  which  came  peacefully  to  its  protecting  care 
under  the  treaty  of  Guadalupe  Hidalgo. 

Very  respectfullv  submitted. 

J.  Franco  Chavez, 
Siij^eriiili'inhiit  Pidilic  InMructiiDi,  ftc. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  305 

EXHIBIT  N. 

The  following-  is  taken  from  a  transcript  of  the  criminal  docket  of 
the  United  States  court  of  the  second  judicial  district  of  the  Territory 
of  New  Mexico,  beginning  with  case  No.  11:^8  and  ending  with  case 
No.  12088,  the  transcript  of  each  case  having  been  certitied  by  the  clerk 
of  said  court: 

No.  1128,  United  States  of  America  r.  Yee  Yene.  Crime,  beinjr  unlawfully  within 
the  United  States. 

No.  1129,  United  States  of  America  v.  Charley  Fong.  Crime,  l)eing  unlawfully 
within  the  United  States. 

No.  1130,  United  States  of  America  v.  Lee  Tong.  Crime,  being  unlawfully  within 
the  United  States. 

No.  1131,  United  States  of  America  c.  Yee  Ar  Lun.  Crime,  being  unlawfully 
within  the  United  States. 

No.  1132,  United  States  of  America  v.  Yee  Kee  Wah.  Crime,  being  unlawfully 
within  the  United  States. 

No.  1133,  United  States  of  America  v.  Josefa  Tenorio.  Crime,  contempt  in  not 
obeying  subpiena  in  1070. 

No.  1134,  United  States  of  America  v.  Ignacio  Lopez.  Crime,  contempt  in  not 
obeying  subpcena  in  1070. 

No.  1135,  United  States  of  America  v.  Paz  Garcia.  Crime,  contempt  in  not  obey- 
ing grand-jury  subpoena. 

No.  1136,  tfnited  States  of  America  v.  Miguel  Gonzales.  Crime,  contempt  in  not 
obeying  grand-jury  subptiena. 

No.  1137,  United  States  of  America  v.  Manuel  Morales.  Crime,  contempt  in  not 
obeying  grand  jury  sul)pa>na. 

No.  1138,  United  States  of  America  v.  Mariano  Armijo.     Crime,  bigamy. 

No.  1139,  United  States  of  America  v.  Mariano  Armijo.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1140,  United  States  of  America  v.  Antonio  Ballejos.     Crime,  bigamy. 

No.  1141,  United  States  of  America  v.  Francisco  Chavez.     Crime,  fornication. 

No.  1142,  United  States  of  America  v.  Marcelina  Padilla.     Crime,  bigamy. 

No.  1143,  United  States  of  America  v.  Emilio  Aragon.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1144,  United  States  of  America  r.  Finia  Chavez,  alias  Finia  Chavez  de  ]\Iolina, 
alias  Finia  Chavez  de  Revalia.     Crime,  bigamy. 

No.  1145,  United  States  of  America  r.  Luis  Silva.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1146,  United  States  of  America  v.  Dolores  Sandoval,  alias  Dolores  Sandoval 
de  Chavez.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1147,  United  States  of  America  v.  Manuel  Chavez.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1148,  United  States  of  America  r.  Tomasita  Serna  de  (Talindro.  Crime, 
adultery. 

No.  1149,  United  States  of  America  v.  Enrique  Benavides.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1150,  United  States  of  America  r.  Juliana  Lobato.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1151,  United  States  of  America  v.  Francisco  Rael.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1152,  United  States  of  America  v.  Petra  Chavez  de  Moya.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1153,  United  States  of  America  v.  Richard  Dermandy.     Crime,  fornication. 

No.  1154,  United  States  of  America  r.  Lillie  Belmont.     Crime,  fornication. 

No.  1155,  United  States  of  America  r.  John  Matthew  Tice.     Crime,  fornication. 

No.  1156,  United  States  of  America  r.  Ethel  Sweet,  alias  Byra  Smith.  Crime, 
fornication. 

No.  1157,  United  States  of  America  v.  John  Stein.     Crime,  fornication. 

No.  1158,  United  States  of  America  v.  Nieves  Chavez.     Crime,  fornication. 

No.  1159,  United  States  of  America  v.  James  T.  Smith.  Crime,  contempt  in  not 
obeying  grand  jury  subptena. 

No.  1160,  United  States  of  America  v.  Good  Eye,  or  Indian  Charley.  Crime,  con- 
tempt in  not  obeying  grand  jury  subpoena. 

No.  1161,  United  States  of  America  v.  John  Morrison.     Crime,  removal  to  Texas. 

No.  1162,  United  States  of  America  v.  C.  A.  Hudson.     Crime,  contempt. 

No.  1163,  United  States  of  America  v.  Caesar  Grande.     Crime,  contempt. 

No.  1164,  United  States  of  America  v.  Rafael  Galoaldon.     Crime,  contempt. 

No.  1165,  United  States  of  America  v.  Juan  Chavez  y  Trujillo.     Crime,  contempt. 

No.  1166,  United  States  of  America  v.  Manuel  Montoya.     Crime,  contempt. 

No.  1167,  United  States  of  America  v.  W.  B.  INIcLaughlin.     Crime,  contempt. 

No.  1168,  United  States  of  America  v.  Salvador  Toledo.  Crime,  contempt  in  not 
obeying  grand  jury  subpoena. 

No.  1169,  United  States  of  America  r.  Epimenio  A.  Miera.  Crime,  violation  of 
postal  laws. 

H   S   B 20 


30(i  NKW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

No.  1170,  raited  States  of  America  /•.  Epimenio   A.  Miera.     Crime,  violation  of 
postal  lawy. 

No.  1171,   United  States  of  America  v.  Jnan  Jose  Salazar.      Crime,  violation  of 
postal  laws. 

No.  1172,  Unite<l  States  of  America  v.  Juan  Jose  Salazar.      Crime,  violation  of 
postal  laws. 

No.  117;^,  Tnited  States  of  America  r.  Pedro  Martinez.     Crime,  selling  liquor  to 
Indians. 

No.  1174,  United  States  of  America  v.  F.  E.  Crumpley.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1175,  United  States  of  America  v.  Finis  Crumpley.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1176,  United  States  of  America  v.  George  Bush.     Crime,  intercepting  a  letter. 

No.  1177,  United  States  of  America  v.  Teresa  Sedillo  de  Sedilio.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1178,  United  States  of  America  r.  Felipe  Perez.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1179,  United  States  of  America  v.  Pamfilo  Lobato.     Crime,  contempt  in  not 
obeying  subpoena. 

No.  1180,  United  States  of  America  v.  Lum  Kon.     Crime,  being  unlawfully  within 
United  States.     (Appeal  from  Commissioner  Burkhart.) 

No.   1181,  United  States  of  America  v.  Lem.      Crime,   being   unlawfully  within 
United  States.      (Appeal  from  Commissioner  Burkhart. ) 

No.    1182,  United   States  of  America  v.  Gee.      Crime,   being  unlawfully  within 
United  States.     (Appeal  from  Commissioner  Burkhart.) 

No.  1183,  United  States  of  America  v.  Charles  Umfleet.     Crime,  contempt  in  not 
obeying  grand  jury  subptena. 

No.  1184,  United  States  of  America  v.  Al  Cordeman.     Crime,  contempt  in  not 
obeying  grand  jury  subp(ena. 

No.  1185,  United  States  of  America  /'.  Edward  Buckner.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1186,   United  States  of  America  r.  T.   N.   Morrison,  alias  Thomas  Morrison 
Crime,  passing  counterfeit  money. 

No.  1187,  United  States  of  America  i\  Thomas  Sandoval.     Crime,  fornication. 

No.  1188,  United  States  of  America  r.  Victor  Lueras.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1189,  United  States  of  America  v.  Lazaro  Cordova  and  Trinidad  Tarin,  alias 
Trinidad  (iurule.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1189i,  United  States   of   America  v.   Lazaro   Cordova  and  Trinidad   Tarin. 
Crime,  adultery. 

No.  1190,  United  States  of  America  r.  Pablo  Duran.     Crime,  bigamy. 

No.  1191,  United  States  of  America  i\  W.  V.  Futrelle.     Crime,  opening  letter. 

No.  1192,  United  States  of  America  v.  W.  A.  Nash.     Crime,  contempt  in  disobey- 
ing subpoena. 

No.  1193,  United  States  of  America  v.  Felipe   Sedillo.     Crime,   contempt  in  not 
obeying  subp^na. 

No.  1194,  United  States  of  Amerit-a  r.  O.  Bachechi  and  G.  Giomi.     Crime,  viola- 
tion of  internal-revenue  laws. 

No.  1195,  United  States  of  America  v.  Candelaria  Vallejos  de  Trujillo.     Crime, 
adultery.      (From  commissioner's  court.) 

No.  1196,  United  States  of  America  v.  Chen  Lem  Hing.     Crime,  being  unlawfully 
within  the  United  States.     (Appeal  from  Commissioner  Burkhart. ) 

No.  1197,  United  States  of  America?'.  Fong  Mon  Chee.     Crime,  being  unlawfully 
within  the  United  States.     (Appeal  from  Commissioner  Burkhart.) 

No.  1198,  United  States  of  America  v.  Manuel  Antonio  Pena.     Crime,  contempt  in 
disobeying  summons. 

No.  1199,  Ignited  States  of  America  r.  Ramon  Cervantes.     Crinie,  contempt  in  dis- 
obeying summons. 

No.  2000,  United  States  of  America  r.  Broncho  Bill,  alias  William  Walters.     Crime 
obstructing  mail. 

No.  2001,  United  States  of  America  r.  Broncho  Bill,  alias  William  Walters.     Crnne, 
attempt  to  I'ob  the  mail. 

No.  2002,  United  States  of  America  v.  H.  B.  Ekeam.     Crime,  order  for  removal  of 
defendant  under  section  1014,  Revised  Statutes. 

No.   2003,  United  States  of  America  v.  Pedro  Torres.     Crime,   contempt   in   not 
obeying  summons. 

No.  2004,  United  States  of  America  v.  Manuel  Alarcon.     Crime   selling  and  givuig 
liquor  to  Indians. 

No.  2005,  United  States  of  America  r.  .Mariano  Alarcon.     Crime,  selling  and  giving 
liquor  to  Indians. 

No.  2006,  United  States  of  America  v.  Andres  Trujillo.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  2007,  United  States  of  America  v.  ]Macedonio  Ramirez.     Crime,  contempt  ni 
not  obeying  summons. 

No.  2008,  United  States  of  America  v.  Daniel  Pipkin,  Edward  Coulter,  James  Bur- 
nett, William  Raper.     Crime,  attempt  to  rob  United  States  mail. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    RILL.  307 

No.  2009,  I^nitiMl  States  of  America  r.  Daniel  Pipkin,  Edward  Coulter,  James  Bur- 
nett, William  Kai)er,  and  William  Johnson.  Crime,  attempt  to  rob  I'nited  States 
mail. 

No.  2010,  United  States  of  America  '•.  Pablo  Hubi.  Crune,  contem])t  m  not  obey- 
ing summons. 

No.  2011,  United  States  of  America  '•.  Epifanio  Jaramillo  and  Gregoria  Anzures  de 
Baca.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  2012,  United  States  of  America  r.  Donaciano  Martin  and  Telesfora  Gonzales. 
Crime,  fornication. 

No.  2018,  United  States  of  America  v.  Luz  Chavez.     (No  bill.) 

No.  2014,  United  States  of  America  r.  Caterina  Gurule  de  Trnjillo.  Crime,  con- 
tempt for  failure  to  obev  subprena. 

No.  2015,  United  States  of  America  v.  Reyes  Gurule.  Crime,  contempt  for  failure 
to  oljev  subpcena. 

No.  2016,  ["nited  States  of  America  '■.  Broncho  Bill,  alias  William  Walters.  Cnme, 
hal^eas  corpus  ad  testificandum. 

No.  2017,  United  States  of  America  r.  Shoo  Cow.  Crime,  being  unlawfully  within 
the  United  States.     (Appeal  from  United  States  Commi.ssioner  H.  K.  Whiting.) 

No.  2018,  United  States  of  America  r.  Maximo  Garcia.  Crime,  failure  to  obey 
summons. 

No.  2019,  United  States  of  America  r.  Jose  Baca  y  Barela.  Crime,  failure  to  obey 
summons. 

No.  2020,  United  States  of  America  r.  Eduardo  Provencher.  Crime,  selling  liquor 
without  license. 

No.  2021,  United  States  of  America  r.  Reyes  Gurule  and  Catarina  Gurule  de 
Trujillo.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  2022,  United  States  of  America  /•.  Frank  Tomei.  Crime,  violation  of  postal 
laws. 

No.  2023,  United  States  of  America  r.  ^l.  B.  Leavitt.  Crime,  violation  of  revenue 
laws.  . 

No.  2024,  United  States  of  America  v.  Jose  Romero.     Cnme,  obstructing  mail. 

No.  2025,  United  States  of  America  r.  Leonele  Tomei.    Crime,  violation  postal  laws. 

No.  2026,  United  States  of  America  r.  Frank  M.  Row.     Crime,  arson. 

No.  2027,  United  States  of  America  v.  Charles  Lockett.     Crime,  murder. 

No.  2028,  United  States  of  America  v.  Charles  Lansing.  Crime,  violation  of  postal 
laws. 

No.  2029,  United  States  of  America  r.  Cornelio  Gabaldon.     (No  bill.) 

No.  2030,  United  States  of  America  >:  Lewis  E.  Densmore  and  Jose  S.  Baca.  Crime, 
murder. 

No.  2031,  United  States  of  America  r.  Sam  Sing.     Crime,  reusing  postage  stamps. 

No.  2032,  United  States  of  America  r.  W.  S.  Willis  and  Virginia  Reed.  Crime, 
adulterv. 

No.  2033,  United  States  of  America  r.  Marie  German.     Crime,  embezzling  letter. 

No.  2034,  United  States  of  America  v.  Tonias  C.  Montoya.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  2035,  United  States  of  America  r.  Diego  Serna  and  Gregoria  F.  Listwick. 
Crime,  adultery.     (No  bill.) 

No.  2036,  United  States  of  America  r.  John  AVhalen  and  Elizabeth  Waichawicus. 
Crime,  adulterv.     (No  bill.) 

No.  2037,  ITnited  States  of  America  r.  Jose  Baca.     Crime,  murder. 

No.  2038,  United  States  of  America  v.  Lewis  E.  Densmore.     Crime,  murder. 

No.  2039,  United  States  of  America  r.  Anna  Hamilton  and  A.  J.  Martin.  Crime, 
adultery. 

No.  2039,  United  States  of  America  r.  A.  J.  ^Martin.     Crime,  adultery. 

No.  2040,  United  States  of  America  v.  Transito  ]klartinez  and  Felipa  IMontoya  de 
Garcia.     Crime,  adulterv. 

No.  2041,  United  States  of  America  >:  Ernest  A.  Titjen.  Crime,  bigamy,  polygamy, 
unlawful  cohabitation,  adulterv,  fornication. 

No.  2042,  United  States  of  America  r.  Hoo  Gun.  Crime,  being  unlawfully  within 
the  United  States.     (Before  J.  W.  Crumpacker,  committing  magistrate.) 

No.  2043,  United  States  of  America  r.  Woo  Sing.  Crime,  being  unlawfully  within 
the  United  States.      ( Before  J.  W.  Crumpacker  as  a  committing  magistrate. ) 

No.  2044,  United  States  of  America  v.  B.  H.  Shaw.  Crime,  violation  of  postal 
laws.     (  Before  J.  ^V.  Crumpacker  as  a  committing  magistrate. ) 

No.  2045,  United  States  of  America  r.  Ju  Heang.  Crime,  being  unlawfully  within 
the  United  States.     (Before  J.  W.  Crumpacker  as  a  committing  magistrate. ) 

No.  2046.  United  States  of  America  >•.  Lem  Chong.  Crime,  being  unlawfully  within 
the  United  States. 

No.  2047,  United  States  of  America  r.  Ah  AVong.  Crime,  being  unlawfully  within 
the  United  States. 


308  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

No.  2048,  Ihiited  States  of  America  r.   p:ilis  Winders.     Crime,  contempt  in  not 
obeying  summons. 

No.  2049,  United  States  of  America  c.  Pantaleon  Mora.     Crime,  embezzlement. 
(No  bill.) 

No.  2050,  United  States  of  America  v.  B.  H.  Shaw.     Crime,  embezzlement. 

No.  2051,  United  States  of  America  r.  B.  H.  Shaw.     Crime,  embezzlement. 

No.  2052,  United  States  of  America  v.  Lui  Lang.     Crime,  forging  a  Chinese  certifi- 
cate. 

No.  2053,  United  States  of  America  r.  Ju  Heang.     Crime,  forging  a  Chinese  certif- 
icate. 

No.  2054,  United  States  of  America  r.  Zenon  Sandoval.     Crime,  contempt  for  fail- 
ure to  obey  summons. 

No.  2055,  United  States  of  America  v.  Narciso  Gutierrez.      Crime,  contempt   for 
faihire  to  obey  summons. 

No.  2056,  United  States  of  America  i:  R.  P.  Hall.     Crime,  contempt  for  failure  to 
obey  summons. 

No.  2057,  United  States  of  America  v.  J.  A.  Hubbs.     Crime,  contempt  for  failure  to 
obev  summons. 

No.  2058,  United  States  of  America  v.  Felipa  Montoya  de  Garcia,  G.  E.  Wilson, 
and  ^Irs.  G.  E.  Wilson.     Crime,  scire  facias  in  2040. 

No.  2059,  United  States  of  America  v.  Woo  Sing.     Crime,  being  unlawfully  in  the 
United  States.     (Appeal.) 

No.  2060,  United  States  of  America  r.  Robert  L.  Sunner.      Crime,  stealing  United 
States  mail. 

Xo.  2061,  United  States  of  America  r.  Robert  L.  Sunner.      Crime,  stealing  letter. 
United  States  mail. 

No.  2062,  United  States  of  America  v.  Charley  (Navajo  Indian).     Crime, . 

No.  2063,  United  States  of  America  v.  Charley  Boy  (Navajo  Indian).     Crime, . 

No.  2064,  United  States  of  America  r.  Francisco  Bedillo.     Crime,  selling  liquor  to 
Indian. 

No.  2065,  United  States  of  America  c.  Charles  ]\IcCoy.     Crime,  murder. 

No.  2066,  United  States  of  America  r.  Dave  Weinman.     Crime,  contempt. 

No.  2067,  United  States  of  America  r.  Jennie  Turner.     Crime,  violation  postal  laws. 

No.  2068,  United  States  of  America  r.  B.  H.  Shaw.     (No  bill). 

No.  2069,  United  States  of  America  r.  Henry  T.  Woodard.     Crime,  counterfeiting. 

No.  2070,    United  States  of  America  v.  Adblph  Quinzer.      Crime,  manslaughter. 
(No  bill.) 

No.  2071,  United  States  of   America  /•.  Navajo  Charley.     Crime,   failure  to  obey 
subpoena. 

No.  2072,  United  States  of  America  r.   Daniel   :Miller.      Crime,   selling  liquor  to 
Indians. 

No.  2073,  United  States  of  America  r.  Charles  Boggio.     Crime,  selling  liquor  to 
Indians. 

No.    2074,    United  States   of  America  v.  Rose   Roat.      Crime,    selling   liquor  to 
Indians. 

No.  2075,  United  States  of  America  ?•.  Dad  Benson,  whose  name  is  to  the  grand 
jurors  otherwise  unknown.     Crime,  selling  liquor  to  Indians. 

No.  2076,   United  States  of  America  r.  John  Sherman.     Crime,  selling  liquor  to 
Indians. 

No.  2077,  United  States  of  America  >:  Petra  Chavez,  Julian  Cane.     (No  bill). 

No.  2078,  United  States  of  America  *■.  Joe  Spears.     Crime,  indictment  for  disposing 
of  intoxicating  liquor  in  southern  district  of  Indian  Territory. 

No.  2079,    United  States  of  America  r.  Ja  Min  Ni,  Neh,  alias  Crazy,  Nachi  Neez 
(3  Indians).     Crime,  . 

No.  2080,  United  States  of  America  v.  Yictoriana  Sedillo,  Alejandre  Sedillo.     Cnme, 
accused  of  adultery.     (No  bill. ) 

No.  2081,  United  States  of  America  r.  Andrew  Casna.     Crime,  selling  liquor  to 
Indians. 

No.  2082,  United  States  of  America  v.  Barney  Grosse.     Crime,  selling  liquor  to 
Indians. 

No.  2083,  United  States  of  America  /■.  Thomas  McConkey.     Crime,  selling  liquor  to 
Indians. 

No.  2084,  United  States  of  America  r.  Mrs.  Peter  Delavante.     Crime,  selling  liquor 
to  Indians. 

No.  2085,  United  States  of  America  /•.  Jacobo  Garcia  and  Feliciana  Garcia.     (No 
bill.)    ■ 

No.  2086,  United  States  of  America  r.  Francisca  J.  Garcia.     Crime,  perjury. 

No.  2087,  United  States  of  America  /■.  Francisca  J.  Garcia.     Crime,  perjury. 

No.  2088,  United  States  of  America  r.  Ed  Scarborough.     Crime,  smuggling. 


KEW  MEXK  O  TERRITORY. 


INDEX  OF  WITNESSES. 

Las  Vegas:  ^^^^• 

Judge  \Vm.  J.  Mills 1 

Nepomuceno  Segura - •! 

Wm.  E.  Gortner t 6 

Secundino  Romero "_ 

Miss  Georgia  Murray " 

Miss  Francesca  Zana 9 

Enrique  Armijo 9 

Enrique  H.  Salasar - 11 

Jesus  Maria  Tefova 12 

Pablo  I'libarri  . ." l'^ 

Diamo  Deo  Sena 1^ 

Jose  Lino  Rivera 16 

H.  S.  Wooster 1" 

Eugenio  Rudolph 19 

Pablo  Jaramillo -0 

F.  O.  Blood 20 

Rafael  Gallegos -, 2] 

Miss  Maggie  J.  Bucher 28 

Felipe  Baca  y  Garcia 25 

Cleofes  Romero 26 

Santa  Fe: 

J.  Francisco  Chavez 27 

Judge  John  R.  McFie 28 

Miss  Barbara  Perea  y  Risarri 30 

Jose  D.  Sena 31 

Facundo  Ortiz '^^ 

Clementa  P.  Ortiz p5 

Ambrosio  Ortiz 36 

Joseph  P.  Conklin 3^ 

James  D.  Hughes 3  / 

Francisco  Anaya 39 

A.  M.  Bergere 39 

Chas.  M.  Conklin -10 

Jose  Maria  Garcia "H 

Cainilo  Padilla 42 

Juvencio  Quintana 42 

Leonardo  Duran 43 

Paul  A.  F.  Walters 43 

Pedro  Sanchez 44 

Albuquerque: 

Judge  Benj.  S.  Baker 45 

Nesto^-  Montova 47 

G.  W.  Metzgar 50 

Seferino  Crollott 51 

Modesto  C.  Ortiz 53 

Eslavio  Vigil 54 

Wm.  Borchert 56 

A.  J.  Crawford 57 

Wm.  J.  ( )liver 58 

C.  F.  Mvers 59 

Thos.  Hughes 63 

309 


310  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Albuquerque — Contiuued.  Page. 

Hon.  Win.  B.  Chikler? 66 

C.  M.  Foraker 74 

Abran  Abeyta 77 

James  A.  Sunnners 78 

W.  E.  Dame 78 

Anastacio  C.  Torres : 78 

H.  G.  Baea 79 

A.  A.  Sedillo 80 

Chas.  P.  Newhall 81 

Prof.  Wm.  Geo.  Tight 81 

Chas.  K.  Hodgin 83 

Atanaoio  ]\Iontoya 84 

Hon.  B.  S.  Rodey 84 

O.  N.  Marron  . .  .* 90 

Willard  S.  Hopewell 91 

N.  E.  Hickey 93 

Las  Graces: 

Judge  Frank  W.  Parker 96 

INIanuel  Lopez 98 

Jose  ( ronzales .' 98 

Samuel  A.  Steele 99 

Maj.  Eugene  Van  Patten 99 

Isador  Armijo 100 

F.  D.  Hunt 102 

Marcel  Valdez 102 

Francis  E.  Lester 102 

Allen  J.  Papen 103 

Elias  E.  Day 103 

Martinez  Amador 104 

Jolm  J.  Vernon 106 

Martin  Lohman 107 

El  Paso:  Judge  Daniel  H^ McMillan 109 

Carlsbad: 

Francis  Gallatin  Tracy 113 

L.  O.  Fullen 115 

James  O.  Cameron 117 

James  0.  Cameron  (recalled ) 120 

Wm.  C.  Reiff 118 

R.  W.  Tansill 118 

Exhibits: 

A. — Certified  copy  of  jury  lists  and  indictments  (Las  Vegas) 236-240 

B. — List  of  school-teachers  in  New  Mexico _ 240-244 

C— Certified  copy  of  jury  lists,  first  judicial  district,  New  Mexico 245-255 

D. — Jury  lists  and  pay  rolls.  United  States  district  courts.  New  Mexico.  255-282 

E.— Legal  notices  from  probate  clerk's  office  ( Albuquerque ) 282 

F. — Certified  copy  of  judgment  in  United  States  district  court,   second 

district  (Albuquerque)   282-293 

G. — Bank  statement  ( Albuquerque ) 293 

H. — Justice  of  the  peace  forms 293 

N.— Transcript  criminal  docket,  second  judicial  district 305-308 

Appendix:  Letter,  J.  Francisco  Chavez,  superintendent  schools,  New  Mexico.  303-304 

INDEX  OF  SUBJECTS. 

Population,  racial  division  and  language: 

Judge  Wm.  J.  Mills 1 

Secundino  Romero 7 

Cleopas  Romero 26 

J.  Francisco  Chavez 27 

Judge  John  R.  McFie 28 

J  ose  D.  Sena 31 

Paul  A.  F.  Walters 43 

Pedro  Sanchez 44 

Judge  Benj.  S.  Baker 45 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  811 

Population,  rat'ial  division  and  language — Continued.  \'>igi^. 

C.  F.  Myers 59 

James  A.  Summers 78 

W.  E.  Dame 78 

H.  G.  Baca 79 

Willard  S.  Hopewell 91 

Isadore  Armijo 100 

James  0.  Cameron 117-120 

United  States  courts — Language,  crimes,  and  interpreters: 

Judge  Wm.  J.  Mills 1 

Nepomuceno  Segura 4 

Wm.  E.  Gortner 6 

Secundino  Romero 7 

Judge  John  R.  McFie 28 

Jose  D.  Sena 31 

Judge  Benj.  S.  Baker 45 

Nestor  Montoya 47 

C.  M.  Foraker 74 

A.  A.  Sedillo 80 

Judge  Frank  W.  Parker 96 

Judge  Daniel  H.  McMillan 109 

Schools  and  colleges: 

Miss  Georgia  Murray 7 

Miss  Francesca  Zana 9 

Enrique  Armijo 9 

Miss  Maggie  J.  Bucher 23 

J.  Francisco  Chavez 27 

Wm.  J.  Oliver  (Indian  school) 58 

Anastasio  C.  Torres 78 

Prof.  Wm.  (ieorge  Tight 81 

Chas.  E.  Hodgin 83 

Atanasio  Montova 84 

N.  E.  Hickey  ./ 93 

Francis  E.  Lester 102 

Elias  E.  Day 103 

John  J.  Vernon 106 

Martin  Lohmaii 107 

Newspapers  (Spanish  and  English): 

Enrique  H .  Salasar 11 

F.  O.  Blood 20 

James  D.  Hughes 37 

Paul  A.  F.  Walters 43 

Jose  G(  )nzales 98 

F.  D.  Hunt 102 

Marciel  Valdez 102 

Allen  J.  Papen 103 

L.  O.  Fullen 115 

Petty  courts  (justice  of  the  peace  and  police) — Language  used,  crimes  charged, 
etc. : 

A.  J.  Crawford 57 

Jesus  Maria  Tefova 12 

H.  S.  Wooster . . .' 17 

Francisco  Anaya 39 

Felipe  Baca  v  (Tarda 25 

Chas.  M.  Cohklin 40 

Jose  Maria  (jarcia 41 

Juvencio  Quintana 42 

Leonardo  Duran 43 

Seferino  Crollott 51 

W^m.  Borchert 56 

Manuel  Lopez , 98 

Census — Language  and  racial  division: 

Pablo  Ulibarri 13 

Diano  Deo  Sena 14 

Jose  Lino  Rivera 16 

Eugenio  Rudolph 19 

Pablo  Jaramillo 20 


312  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Census — Language  and  racial  divisiou — Continued.  Page. 

Rafael  Callegos -' 21 

Miss  Barbara  Perea  y  Risarri 30 

Facundo  Ortiz 34 

Clementa  P.  Ortiz 35 

Anibrosio  Ortiz 36 

Joseph  P.  Conklin 37 

Cainilo  Padilla -12 

Pedro  Sanchez -44 

G.  \V.  Metzgar 50 

Seferino  CroUott 51 

Modesto  C.  Ortiz 53 

Eslavio  Vigil 54 

Samuel  A.  Steele 99 

Maj .  Eugene  \'an  Patten 99 

Isadore  Armijo 100 

Win.  C.  Reiff 118 

General  statements — Occupation,  resources,  development: 

C.  F.  Myers 59 

Thos.  Hughes 63 

Hon.  William  B.  Childers 66 

Hon.  B.  S.  Rodey 84 

0.  N.  Marron 90 

Willard  S.  Hopewell 91 

Martinez  Amador 104 

Martin  Lohman 107 

R.  W.  Tansill - 118 

James  0.  Cameron 117 

County  and  municipal  government  offices: 

Cleojias  Romero 26 

C.  F.  Myers 59 

Abran  Abey ta ^ 77 

H .  G.  Baca 79 

Chas.  P.  Newhall 81 

Isadore  Armijo --  100 

Banks:  Chas.  P.  Newhall 81 

Irrigation : 

John  J .  Vernon 106 

Francis  Gallatin  Tracy 113 

R.  W.  Tansill " 118 


TEHRITOHY  OF  AHIZONA. 


INDEX  OF  WITNESSES. 

Prescott:  P^^^- 

Henry  Martin 121 

J.  J.Sanders 122 

Judge  Richard  E.  Sloan j 123 

F.  A.  Tritle 128 

Julius  N.  Rodenberg 129 

William  S.  Marts 1 30 

E.  B.  Moden 130 

Phoenix: 

Benjamin  A.  Fowler 132 

Judge  Joseph  H.  Kibbey 140 

C.  T.  Walters 1-45 

J.  E.  Stovall 146 

M.  H.  McCord 147 

Pedro  Garcia  de  la  Lama 148 

J.  J.  Otero 148 

D wight  B.  Heard 149 

Frank  Luke l''>0 

Frank  I\L  Murphy 150 

Governor  Alexander  0.  Brodie 155 

Judge  Nelson  G.  Layton 160 

J.  C.  Adams " 161 

Tucson : 

John  E.  Magee 162 

W.  L.  G.  Soule 163 

Paul  Jones 163 

Thomas  Hughes,  jr 164 

Prof.  Frank  Yale  Adams 164 

Judge  George  R.  Davis 165 

L.  C.  Hughes 166 

James  Flynn 168 

William  Angus 169 

M.P.  Freeman 170 

Bisbee:    Walter  Douglass 170 

Exhibits: 

I.  Statements  showing  comparative  growth  of  schools,  etc 294 

Prof.  F.  H.  Newell,  hydrographer,  United  States  Geological  Survey 173,  185 

Maps  accompany  Professor  Newell' s  testimony face  186 

INDEX  OF  SUBJECTS. 

Census,  language,  racial  divisions: 

Henrv  Martin 121 

J.  J.  Sanders 122 

F.  A.  Tritle 128 

Julius  N.  Rodenberg 129 

William  S.  Marts 130 

C.  T.  Walters 145 

J.  E.  Stovall 146 

John  E.  Magee 162 

W.  L.  G.Soule 163 

Paul  Jones 163 

313 


314  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

General  statements:  Page. 

Judge  Richard  E.  Sloan 123 

lienjaniin  A.  Fowler 132 

Jndjie  Joseph  H.  Kibbey 1-10 

F.  M.  Murphy 150 

Governor  Alexander  O.  Brodie 155 

United  States  courts,  juries,  and  interpreters: 

Judge  Richard  E.  Sloan 123 

M.  H.  McCord,  United  States  marshal 147 

Judge  Joseph  H.  Kibbey 140 

Judge  George  R.  Davis 165 

Thomas  Hughes,  jr >  164 

Newspapers,  Spanish  and  English: 

Pedro  Garcia  de  la  Lama 148 

J.  J.  Otero 148 

L.  C.  Hughes 166 

Railroads:  F.  M.  Murphy -  - 150 

Occupation  of  people — Agriculture,  mining,  and  stock  raising: 

J  udge  Richard  E.  Sloan 123 

J.  J.  Otero 148 

F.  M.  Murphy 150 

Governor  Alexander  O.  Brodie 155 

Walter  Douglass 1 70 

Licenses  and  taxes: 

E.  B.  Moden 130 

Frank  Luke 150 

J.  C.  Adams 161 

James  Flynn 1C8 

Schools  and  colleges: 

Governor  Alexander  0.  Brodie 155 

Judge  Nelson  G.  Layton 160 

Prof.  Frank  Yale  Adams 164 

William  Angus -  169 

Irrigation : 

Benjamin  A.  Fowler 132 

Dwight  B.  Heard 149 

Banks  and  interest  rates:  M.  P.  Freeman 170 


TERRITORY  OF  OKLAHOMA. 


INDEX  OF  WITNESSES. 

Woodward:  Page. 

Oscar  Von  Fersen 187 

A.  G.  Cunningham 188 

Memo.— David  P.  Mennon 190 

Oklatioma  City: 

Anton  H.'Classen 190 

Wm.  ]M.  Newell  ( of  Norman ) 192 

D.  H.  Wilson  (of  Vinita,  Ind.  T.) 193 

Henry  Marshall  Ferman  ( of  Ardmore,  Ind.  T. ) 196 

A.  L.'Cate?  (of  Clareniore) 199 

AV.  A.  Ledbetter  (of  Ardmore) 200 

C.  B.  Ames  (of  Oklahoma  City) 201 

W.  H.  Trudgeon  (of  Purcell).' 202 

A.  B.  White  (of  Sulphur,  Ind.  T.) 203 

0.  D.  Halsell  (of  Oklahoma  City) 204 

S.  T.  Alton  (of  Oklahoma  City)' 206 

C.  G.  Jones  (of  Oklahoma  City) 207 

1.  M.  Holcomb  (of  Oklahoma  City )  208 

T.  B.  Jones  (of  Oklahoma  City) 209 

Guthrie: 

Goy.  Thos.  B.  Ferguson 210 

Thos.  M.  Robnett  (of  Ardmore,  Ind.  T.) 216 

Sidnev  Clark 217 

Thos.'H.  Doyle  (of  Perry) 218 

Ex-Goy.  C.  M.  Barnes  (of  Guthrie) 222 

S.  T.  Goodman  (of  Tonkawa) 223 

Judge  J.  C.  Strang 224 

T.  J.  Lowe 225 

L.  G.  Edwards  (of  Norman) 225 

INDEX  OF  SUBJECTS. 
General  conditions: 

Anton  H.  Classen 190 

Henry  ^Marshall  Ferman 196 

A.  L.'  Gates 199 

C.  B.  Ames 201 

O.  D.  Halsell 204 

C.  G.  Jones 207 

Goy.  Thos.  B.  Ferguson 210 

Tho.s.  H.  Doyle 218 

Ex.-Gov.  C.  M.  Barnes 222 

Judge  J.  C.  Strang 225 

Conditions  in  Indian  Territory: 

D.  H.Wilson ." 193 

Henry  Marshall  Ferman 196 

A.  L.'Cates 199 

W.  A.  Ledbetter 200 

AV.  H.  Trudgeon 202 

A.  B.AVhite 203 

Thos.  M.  Robnett 216 

315 


316  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Single  and  separate  statehood:  Page. 

Wm.  M.  Newell 192 

D.  H.  Wilson 193 

Henrv  IMarshall  Ferman 196 

A.  L.*Cates 199 

W.  A.  Ledbetter 200 

C.  B.  Ames 201 

W.  H.  Trudgeon 202 

A.  B.White 203 

O.  D.  Halsell 204 

S.  T.  Alton 206 

C.  G.  Jones 207 

Gov.  Thos.  B.  Ferguson 210 

Thos.  M.  Robnett. 216 

Sidney  Clark 217 

Thos.'H.  Dovle 218 

Ex.-Gov.  C.  M.  Barnes 222 

Judge  J.  C.  Strang 224 

T.  J.  Lowe .- 225 

Agricultural  and  industrial  conditions: 

Oscar  Von  Fersen 187 

A.  G.  Cunningham 188 

Anton  H.  Classen 190 

Henry  Marshall  Ferman 196 

C.  B.  Ames 201 

0.  D.  Halsell 204 

Judge  J.  C.  Strang 224 

Assessed  valuation  of  propertv  and  i-ates  of  taxation: 

Wm.  M.  Newell 192 

A.  B.  White 203 

S.T.Alton -.  206 

C.  G.  Jones 207 

Schools: 

A.  G.  Cunningham 188 

1.  M.  Holcomb 208 

School  lands: 

David  P.  iSIennon 190 

S.  T.  Goodman  (Tonkawa) 223 

Population : 

Oscar  Von  Fersen 187 

A.  G.  Cunningham 188 

Anton  H.  Classen 190 

W.  H.  Trudgeon 202 

C.  G.  Jones 207 

Gov.  T.  B.  Ferguson 210 

Exhibits: 

K. — Picture  of  Epworth   League  University.     (Omitted  in  printing  on 

account  of  lack  of  time) 

M. — Memorial  of  Norman  Commercial  Club 


HEARINGS  OF   THE   SENATE   COMMITTEE   ON   TERRITORIES 
JUNE  28  AND  30,  1902,  ON  HOUSE  BILL  NO.  12543,  PRO- 
VIDING FOR  THE  ADMISSION  OF  THE  TERRITO- 
RIES OF  ARIZONA,  NEW  MEXICO,  AND 
OKLAHOMA  TO  STATEHOOD. 


317 


ADMISSION  OF  THE  TERRITORIES  OF  ARIZONA,  NEW 
MEXICO,  AND  OKLAHOMA  TO  STATEHOOD. 


Committee  on  Territories, 

United  States  Senate, 
Wa.s/im(/ton,  D.  C,  Saturday,  June  28^  1902. 

The  committee  met  at  10.30  o'clock  a.  m. 

Present:  Senators  Beveridge  (chairman).  Bate,  Bard,  Heitfeld,  and 
Kean. 

Present,  also,  Hon.  Marcus  A.  Smith,  Delegate  from  Arizona;  Hon. 
Bernard  S.  Rodey,  Delegate  from  New  Mexico,  and  Hon.  Dennis  T. 
Flynn,  Delegate  from  Oklahoma. 

The  committee  thereupon  proceeded  to  the  consideration  of  the  bill 
(H.  R.  1254:3)  providing  for  the  admission  to  statehood  of  the  Territo- 
ries of  Arizona,  New  Mexico,  and  Oklahoma. 

The  chairman's  presence  being  required  at  the  Conuuittee  on  the 
Philippines,  Senator  Bard  took  the  chair. 

The  Acting  Chairman.  1  regret  that  the  chairman  of  the  committee 
will  not  be  able  to  be  present  during  the  hearing,  as  he  is  engaged  on 
the  Philippine  Committee. 

The  purpose  of  this  bill  is  to  give  the  Delegates  in  Congress  an 
opportunity  to  speak  to  the  statehood  bill.  1  would  suggest  that  w^e 
take  them  up  alphabetically;  and  the  gentlemen  representing  Arizona 
are  invited  to  present  any  matters  they  desire  to  present. 

Mr.  lioDEY.  Unless  the  gentleman  from  Arizona  desires  to  proceed, 
Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  here  several  citizens  to-da}"  who  will  not  be  here 
at  a  later  day;  and  if 

The  Acting  Chairman.  It  is  not  expected,  I  believe,  to  have  very 
long  speeches  here  at  present;  and  as  Mr.  Smith  is  desirous  of  getting 
away,  I  think  we  will  hear  him  tirst, 

Mr.  Kodey.  All  right,  sir. 

The  Actixg  Chairman.  I  think  it  would  be  well  to  allow  him  to 
present  what  he  desires  tirst. 

Senator  Bate.  Allow  me  to  say  to  you,  gentlemen,  that  I  do  not 
think  there  is  much  division,  in  our  committee,  at  least,  upon  the  ques- 
tion before  us;  and  it  will  therefore  be  a  good  plan  if  j'ou  will  abbre- 
viate what  you  have  to  say  as  much  as  you  can. 

]\Ir.  Smith.  One  who  has  been  in  the  service  as  long  as  I  have  is 
pretty  apt  to  do  that. 

STATEMENT  OF  HON.  MAECUS  A.  SMITH,  DELEGATE  FEOM  THE 
TERRITORY  OF  ARIZONA. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman  and  gentlemen  of  the  committee,  my 
idea  for  a  proper  hearing  of  these  bills,  and  our  purpose  as  far  as 
Arizona  is  concerned,  is  to  subsequently  lay  before  the  committee  the 

319 


320  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

facts  concerning  its  resources,  which,  we  think,  justify  us  in  our  appli- 
cation for  admission  as  a  State. 

Tliere  has  been  a  long  straggle,  especially  on  the  part  of  Arizona 
and  New  Mexico,  against  this  infamous  Territorial  system  of  govern- 
ment. Taking  a  ver^^  brief  view  of  the  political  history  so  well  iN;nown 
to  you  that  it  is  only  necessarv  barely  to  alhide  to  it,  the  ordinance  of 
1787  provided  that  in  the  great  northwestern  part  of  the  United 
States  when  any  one  of  the  subdivisions  which  were  granted  by  Vir- 
ginia and  the  othe«r  States  to  the  General  Government  should  obtain 
as  man}'  as  60,000  inhabitants  it  should  be  entitled  to  statehood,  and 
should  be  adinitted  into  the  Union  of  States.  Thei'e  was  a  direct 
guaranty  on  t4^  part  of  the  Government  to  that  effect,  and  it  was  fre- 
quently reen^^t^t^  after  the  adoption  of  the  Constitution.  That  ordi- 
nance did  not  Include  the  present  Territories  of  New  Mexico,  Arizona, 
or  Oklahoma. 

But  in  the  treaty  that  we  entered  into  with  the  Mexican  Government 
after  the  war  with  Mexico,  the  treaty  of  Guadaloupe  Hidalgo,  and  sub- 
sequently— I  do  not  think  it  was  reiterated  in  the  Gadsden  purchase,  but 
that  onl}' covered  a  small  part  of  the  present  Territory  of  Arizona — the 
same  guaranty  that  had  been  given  to  the  earlier  Territories  was  repeated. 
By  that  treaty  it  was  again  guaranteed  that  these  people  who  were  liv- 
ing there,  not  in  Arizona  at  that  time,  but  within  the  present  bound- 
aries of  New  Mexico,  should  have  their  country  admitted  as  a  State 
as  the  others  had  been. 

So  we  have  gone  from  the  first  on  that  guaranty,  and  Congress  has 
invariabl}"  kept  its  word,  except  as  to  the  two  Territories  of  Arizona 
and  New  Mexico.  Those  two  Territories  have  been  made  the  mere  whim 
and  caprice  of  politicians  and  have  been  thrown  as  a  shuttlecock  through 
the  political  atmosphere  until  the  people  have  become  wearied  with 
the  burden  from  which  they  are  everlastingly  suffering — a  govern- 
ment of  carpethag  rule,  that  was  denounced  in  the  Declaration  of  Inde- 
pendence and  was  filed  as  one  of  the  articles  of  that  great  indictment 
against  the  mother  counti'v. 

That  has  gone  on  from  that  da}'  to  this.  Now,  let  us  see  what  our 
claim  is. 

We  have,  at  the  very  lowest — and  I  want  to  deal  squarely  with  you; 
I  think  I  am  putting  it  easily  25,000  below  our  present  population — 
160,000  people  in  the  Territory  of  Arizona  as  well  educated,  aye,  better 
educated  in  a  general  way,  than  any  similar  constituency  in  the  United 
States  of  America.  There  has  been  some  objection  raised  by  those 
who  know  nothing  about  it  to  the  Mexican  population  of  New  Mexico  and 
Arizona.  Even  that  condition  does  not  apply  to  Arizona.  My  friend 
Rodey  is  well  able  to  take  care  of  it  as  far  as  New  Mexico  is  concerned. 
In  Arizona  there  are  one  or  two  small  Spanish  settlements.  They  are 
made  up  of  the  children  and  grandchildren  of  the  peo})le  who  lived  in 
this  country  years  before  the  separation  of  that  country  from  old 
Mexico.  They  have  been  educated  in  our  public  schools.  They  have 
intermarried  with  the  better  class  of  white  people,  and  around  us  there 
ire  Spanish-speaking  people  who  are  as  good  citizens  as  you  will  find 
anywhere. 

I  do  not  refer,  of  course,  to  the  common  Spanish  who  occasionally 
come  in  from  Mexico.  I  do  not  refer  to  the  low  and  ordinary  common 
laborer  that  you  find  at  the  lowest  edge  of  every  country.  Some  of 
them  are  in  all  of  the  Territories;  but  we  have  so  small  an  amount  of 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  321 

them  that  thoy  have  no  appreciable  effect  whatever  on  an  election  or  on 
the  public  .spirit  of  the  country. 

Our  present  population  has  come  to  us  from  every  State  in  this 
Union.  It  is  not  made  up  of  the  illiterate;  but  it  consists  of  the  brave, 
fearless,  well-educated  boys  from  the  different  parts  of  the  couiitry,. 
from  Florida  to  Maine.  The  illiterate  did  not  seek  the  hard  environ- 
ment and  the  dangers  that  surrounded  the  early  settlement  of  the  West- 
It  was  the  self-confident  American  boy  that  went.  He  has  gone  there;- 
ills  children  have  been  born  in  New  Mexico,  and  are  being  Ijorn  to-day 
all  over  Arizona — bone  of  your  bone  and  tlosh  of  your  tiesh,  and  peo- 
ple worthy  of  their  illustrious  sires.  I  may  not  be  too  boastful  when 
I  say  that  in  the  wider,  the  freer,  and  the  opener  development  I  think 
they  are  going  to  make  even  l)etter  men  than  their  fathers  were. 

That  is  the  kind  of  people  that  have  Ijcen  subject  to  a  miserable  car- 
petl)ag  gov^ernment  and  have  been  pillaged  by  Congress  during  all 
this  time — Mexico  for  fifty  years,  Arizona  since  1803;  and  it  has  kept 
up  to  this  very  hour  without  any  abatement  of  the  awful  infamy. 

Why  should  they,  of  all  the  people  in  this  Union,  be  selected  to  be- 
made  the  target  of  what  seems  almost  to  be  malice  and  spite,  as  com- 
pared with  the  conduct  of  Congress  toward  the  other  States?  _  We 
have  three  times  the  population — nay,  four,  five  times  the  population— 
of  the  State  of  Nevada,  which  has  not  been  badly  represented  among 
you  most  distinguished  gentlemen  ever  since  it  came  into  the  Union. 
It  has  a  larger  population  than  any  one  of  the  Western  States  that 
were  recently  admitted  into  the  Union  had  Avhen  they  were  admitted, 
except,  I  believe,  the  Territory  of  Washington.  And  now,  for  rea- 
sons inexplicable  to  us,  we  are  told  that  we  must  still  be  kept  out. 

Without  going  at  this  time  into  any  mere  question  of  statistics,  I 
will  give  a  brief  outline  of  our  reasons  for  asking  statehood. 

I  know  that  the  census  shows  that  we  have  a  population  of  about 
130,000.  Senator  Bard,  our  neighbor,  will  remember  that  that  census 
was  taken  right  in  the  heat  of  summer.  We  are  an  industrious  people, 
and  through  the  other  months  of  the  year  we  provide  ways  and  means 
to  send  our  families  and  children  in  the  summer  (and  to  go  ourselves, 
when  our  business  will  permit),  to  the  delightful  resorts  of  southern 
California. 

That  census  was  taken  at  a  time  of  the  year  when  our  population 
was  largely  absent.  Fully  a  third,  I  know,  of  the  people  of  the  great 
city  of  Phoenix  were  away,  because  the  census  enumeration  shows 
that  the  city  of  Phoenix  has  5,000  inhabitants.  There  is  not  a  man  in 
the  Territory  acquainted  with  it  who  does  not  know  that  the  city  of 
Phoenix  to-day  has  15,000  people. 

They  have  put  the  population  of  Tucson  at  6,000.  Tucson  is  not 
nearly  as  large  as  Phoenix,  but  Tucson  has  every  one  of  ten  or  eleven 
thousand  people,  as  the  school  census,  the  school  attendance,  and  the 
voting  population  show. 

The  town  of  Bisbee  has,  according  to  the  census,  3,000  people. 
There  are  more  than  3,000  people  on  the  pay  roll  of  its  mines.  As  a 
matter  of  fact,  Bisbee  is  a  town  of  7,500  people. 

You  have  the  census  of  lOOO  giving  that  sort  of  a  population  tothc 
Territory  of  Arizona,  and  this  is  what  was  taken  right  in  the  cities 
and  towns.  What  do  you  think  the  enumerators  did  when  they  struck 
the  great  ranges  of  mountains  that  run  for  hundreds  of  miles,  and  are 
50  miles  across,  full  of  miners  and  prospectors  ?     What  did  they  do' 

H   S  B 21 


322  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

for  the  great  barns  and  the  homes  along  the  foothills  of  those  moun- 
tains, or  for  the  great  cattle  and  sheep  interests  in  the  mountains 
and  on  the  valley  ranges?  Who  has  ever  taken  them?  The  census 
has  never  taken"^  mv  name,  and  you  can  not  find  one  man  in  iive  who 
ever  saw  a  census  enumerator  in  the  Territory  during  that  time.  ^  The 
Department  itself  recognizes  that  the  census  is  absolutely  unreliable, 
and  the  reason  is  very  plain.  It  is  very  evident.  They  could  not 
attord  to  make  it  thorough. 

Senator  Heitfeld.  They  could  not  take  it  in  the  time  allowed, 
either,  could  thev?  * 

Mr.  Smith.  They  could  not  take  it  in  the  time  allowed,  and  they 
could  not  hire  horses  at  the  price  we  charge  and  go  through  that  coun- 
try and  hunt  these  widely  separated  yet  industrious  and  prosperous 
hamlets.  They  did  not  go  to  them  at  all,  and  the  result  is  a  mere 
naked,  miserable  guess.  For  fear  of  perjury  they  put  down  only  what 
names  they  actually  took,  and,  in  my  opinion,  they  did  not  take  half 
of  the  people  they  should  have  taken. 

That  was  the  census.  That  was  the  way  they  arrived  at  the  popu- 
lation, and  on  that  census  an  argument  will  be  made,  and  has  been 
made  in  another  ]>ranch  of  this  Congress,  that  we  are  unable  to  copy 
with  the  great  question  of  statehood. 

Let  us  see  how  diti'erently  Congress  has  acted  with  other  people,  and 
if  our  claim  is  not  pretty  well  founded  that  we  have  been  particularly 
singled  out  bv  our  friends  for  the  slaughter. 

I  read  from  a  statement  I  made  before  the  House  on  this  subject 
when  the  question  of  the  admission  of  Arizona  was  before  that  body : 

"Of  the  twentv-tive  States  admitted  to  the  Union,  beginning  with 
Vermont  in  ITlJl  and  closing  with  Colorado  in  1876,  Maine  and  Kansas 
alone  had  as  much  as  lOO.dOO  population.  Vermont,  Kentucky,  Mis- 
souri, and  California  are  the  only  others  which  had  as  many  as  50,000 
population.  In  183fi-37,  the  previous  census  giving  the  representative 
ratio  of  47,700,  Arkansas  was  admitted  with  25,000  and  Michigan  with 
31,000.  From  1845  to  1848,  when  the  representative  ratio  had  reached 
70,G00,  Florida,  Iowa,  and  Wisconsin  were  admitted  to  the  Union — 
Florida,  with  28,700;  Iowa,  with  43,000,  and  A\'isconsin,  with  30,900. 

"Again,  in  1858,  when  the  ratio  of  representation  had  risen  to 
93,500,  Minnesota  was  admitted  on  the  previous  census" — just  what 
we  have  to  work  with  here.  ' '  Minnesota  was  admitted  on  the  previous 
census,  showing  only  7,000  inhabitants,  and  the  next  year  Oregon 
became  a  State  with  only  13,200  population. 

"In  1867,  when  the  ratio  had  risen  to  over  127,000,  Nebraska  was 
taken  in  on  a  population  of  28,800.  and  in  1876,  the  ratio  having  reached 
131.500,  Colorado  came  in  with  only  39,000." 

And  yet  these  Territories  for  which  we  speak  stand  at  this  late  day 
on  exactly  the  same  footing  as  the  Philippine  Islands  and  Porto  Rico, 
except  that  they  have  been  less  favorably  legislated  for  in  this  very 
session  of  Congress,  because  the  carpetbag  rule  there  is  evidently 
well  paid  and  does  not  need  to  steal. 

Mr.  KoDEY.  They  get  their  own  revenues,  too,  and  we  do  not. 

Mr.  Smith.  They  get  more  revenues,  and  get  them  from  the  National 
Government,  while  we  take  ours  out  of  our  own  pockets  and  pay  more 
per  capita  for  the  education  of  our  children  than  any  people  have  ever 
paid  since  Cadnnis  sent  the  Bible  up  the  avenues  of  time.  And  still 
tliey  sit  and  wonder,  and  we  wonder. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  323 

With  this  history  of  these  great  States  before  j^ou,  you  can  see 
some  reasons  for  our  protest. 

Will  you  observe,  gentlemen,  what  we  claim  will  happen  in  our 
Territories  if  they  are  made  States?  For  the  same  old  plea,  that 
"you  have  no  resources,"  that  "your  land  is  a  part  of  the  great 
desert,"  was  applied  to  States  that  are  now  the  most  populous  and 
thriving  in  the  countr}^ 

You  sit  here,  3,0U0  miles  away,  and  tell  us  we  have  nothing  but  des- 
erts on  which  to  live,  and  that  we  can  not  build  a  State  out  of  them. 
We  answer  that  our  near  neighbors,  our  brothers,  had  exactl}'  the 
same  thing  said  about  them  as  they  went  West.  Furthermore,  we  say 
that  we  have  made  a  State  out  of  our  country  there  and  have  filled  it 
with  a  prosperous  population  that  turns  out  every  year  twice  as  much 
per  capita  as  any  State  in  this  Union;  that  puts  into  the  wealth  of  the 
world  every  year  twice  as  much  per  capita  as  any  State  in  this  Union. 

Senator  Bate.  That  is  on  account  of  your  copper  mines,  1  suppose? 

Mr.  Smith.  It  is  on  account  of  everything — copper  mines,  cattle, 
fruits,  harvests,  and  so  on. 

Senator  Heitfeld.  What  is  the  assessed  value  of  your  real  estate? 

Mr.  Smith.  1  do  not  know  at  what  figure  the}^  put  it.  It  is  some- 
where in  the  figures  I  have  here,  to  which  I  will  call  the  attention  of 
the  committee  later  on.  I  do  not  know  at  what  figure  they  put  it; 
but  1  know  that  the  assessed  real  valuation  of  the  Territory,  putting 
it  at  the  very  lowest  possible  sum,  is  $250,000,000.  We  have  a  mine 
worth  nearly  that  amount.  We  have  railroads  running  through  our 
Territory  that  are  assessed  at  onl}^  $5,000  a  mile  that  we  know  are 
bonded  for  $40,000,  and  are  paying  a  good  dividend  on  their  bonded 
indebtedness.     And  only  one  of  those  railroads  is  assessed  at  all. 

Now,  that  vast  amount  of  propert}'  will  all  become  assessable  when 
we  become  a  State. 

Senator  Bate.  How  do  you  happen  to  make  a  distinction?  Why 
do  you  assess  one  and  not  the  other? 

Mr.  Smith.  There  is  only  one  that  is  not  a  land-grant  railroad. 
The  others  were  land-grant  roads  and  were  exempted  from  taxation 
until  the  Territory  should  become  a  State.  But  I  must  sa}^  for  the 
Atchison,  Topeka  and  Santa  Fe  Railroad  (and  I  say  it  to  their  credit) 
that  they  are  voluntarily  paying  $175  a  mile  into  the  treasury  of  each 
county  through  which  they  pass,  for  the  support  of  those  counties,  bj'' 
an  arrangement  made  at  this  session  of  Congress. 

The  assessed  valuation  of  the  property,  however,  is  the  point  to 
which  I  am  addressing  myself.  There  is  the  great  Copper  Queen 
mine,  belonging  to  Phelps,  Dodge  &  Co.,  of  New  York,  it  is  true, 
at  Bisbee.  There  is  the  great  property  around  Bisbee  that  is  held 
by  friends  from  the  district  of  the  Senator  who  sits  opposite  to  me, 
Mr.  Bard,  by  whom  millions  of  dollars'  worth  of  land  is  now  owned. 
There  are  the  great  Clifton  mines  and  the  Shannon  mines.  There  is 
the  Commonwealth  mine,  owned  largely  by  Mr.  Penrose,  a  brother  of 
the  present  Senator — an  enormous,  magnificent,  gold-producing  mine. 
There  is  the  w^hole  country  north  of  Prescott,  with  every  mountain 
range  biinging  forth  its  fruits  to  the  general  harvest  of  the  world. 
It  is  to-day  the  most  prosperous  mining  country  on  the  face  of  the 
earth;  and  3^et  the  mines  are  not  assessed.  No  wonder,  then,  that 
even  our  county  showings  of  the  assessed  valuation  of  the  property 
are  far  from  the  real  mark,  and  farther  than  the  census  showed  our 
population  to  be. 


324  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

So  we  are  workinc^  aj^ainst  these  things,  and  we  find  each  man  hunt- 
ing up  these  little  facts  to  put  up  ag-ainst  us  in  the  nature  of  a  special 
pleader,  without  ever  daring  or  attempting  to  explain  why  they  hap- 
pened, and  saying,  "You  are  onl}'  a  little  people  with  ^8(3,000,000  of 
assessable  property,  unable  to  carry  on  a  State  government,"  when,  as 
a  matter  of  fact,  it  is  a  bagatelle,  not  a  drop  in  the  bucket. 

The  Acting  Chairman,  Wh}"  are  not  the  mines  assessed? 

Mr.  Smith.  Because  they  come  under  the  provisions  of  a  Territorial 
statute  passed  in  the  earl}^  days  that  exempted  mines  from  taxation, 
in  an  effort  to  encourage  as  much  as  possible  the  development  of  the 
mining  industries  of  the  countr^^  Then  when  the  mines  grew  large 
and  strong  they  were  able  to  take  care  of  themselves 

Senator  Bate.  Are  mines  assessed  in  anj^^  Territory? 

Mr.  Smith.  Oh,  yes. 

Senator  Heitfeld.  They  are  not  assessed  in  my  State. 

Senator  Bate.  Nor  in  mine. 

Mr.  Smith.  They  were  not  generally  assessed  in  any  of  the  Terri- 
tories in  the  West;  and,  as  I  say,  when  they  grew  large  and  strong 
they  were  pretty  well  able  to  take  care  of  themselves  when  it  came  to 
the  question  of  changing  the  law  as  to  the  assessment  of  their  property. 
[Laughter.] 

These  conditions  will  pass  away  in  statehood.  I  believe,  from  inter- 
views I  have  had  with  them,  that  the  owners  of  those  great  mines  are 
to-day  willing  to  pay  a  net-proceeds  tax  on  them,  which  is  a  proper 
tax.  A  mining  tax  should  always  be  levied  on  the  net  proceeds  and 
not  on  the  property  itself,  for  one  year  it  may  be  valuable  and  the 
next  not.  I  have  no  hesitation  in  saying  that  under  a  State  govern- 
ment those  men  will  gladly  contribute  liberally  toward  the  support  of 
the  government  through  a  proper  and  fair  taxation  of  their  property. 

I  predict  for  Arizona  just  what  has  happened  in  every  one  of  these 
other  States.  It  is  bound  to  come.  Now  let  us  see  what  the  effect  of 
statehood  itself  is. 

At  the  present  time  people  go  right  through  my  country  into  old 
Mexico  to  invest  in  property  that  is  certainly  not  half  as  valuable  as 
that  they  ride  over  in  going  there.  Why  do  they  do  it?  Because 
there  is  no  stability  to  our  legislation;  because  the  shadow  of  Con- 
gressional legislation  hangs  over  every  act  of  a  Territory;  because  we 
can  not  bond  a  single,  solitary  road.  Take  any  business  proposition, 
where  you  have  to  hunt  men  of  means  to  develop  it.  They  will  not 
go  into  it  for  the  reason  that  the  veiy  act  on  which  you  rest  your 
rights  is  liable  to  be  amended  or  repealed  after  your  rights  have  become 
vested  and  you  have  spent  hundreds  of  thousands  of  dollars  on  the 
property. 

Why,  gentlemen,  in  the  very  last  term  of  the  Supreme  Court  it 
declared  the  bonds  on  my  county  for  the  construction  of  a  railroad 
fraudulent,  and  at  least  void  ab  initio,  no  railroad  ever  having  been 
built.  The  Supreme  Court  declared  that  the  bonds  were  of  no  account 
and  never  had  been;  that  the  legislature  never  had  the  power  to  order 
the  county  to  issue  them.  The  plea  was  made  that  the  county  had 
never  delivered  them,  and  yet  they  passed  a  little  amendment  at  the  end 
of  an  appropriation  bill  or  something  else  through  Congress  in  which 
it  was  said  that  "all  legal  obligations  of  the  Territory  on  a  bonded 
debt  are  hereb}"  legalized."  So  there  is  a  standing  obligation  on  our 
county,  although  the  railroad  does  hot  run  as  far  as  from  here  to  that 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  325 

fireplace,  and  my  county  alone  is  taxed  $180,000  for  it,  a  thing  that 
could  not  possibly  happen  in  a  State. 

You  see  how  our  development  is  retarded,  gentlemen.  We  have 
been  kept  back,  and  yet  you  see  the  beautiful  development  of  south- 
ern California,  just  across  the  river,  a  countrv  that  is  not  one  whit 
better  in  any  sense  than  ours,  and  in  fact  not  as  good.  Yet  that  coun- 
trv has  been  made  the  garden  spot  of  the  West,  through  the  enterprise 
of  just  such  pioneers  as  went  to  m\^  countrv,  represented  here  by  men 
like  the  Senator  who  confronts  me.  They  wrought  in  that  land.  Sena- 
tors, and  have  done  no  more  for  it  than  I  dare  say  w^e  will  do  for  ours 
when  you  give  us  exactly  the  same  power  and  the  same  right  to  do  it. 
There  is  now  no  place  in  the  world  more  attractive  to  those  who  live 
in  it  or  visit  it  than  the  beautiful  country  of  southern  California, 
whi(;h  was  a  desert  as  bad  as  our  own  when,  with  their  magniticent 
genius,  enterprise,  and  energy,  our  American  brothers  first  put  their 
hands  to  the  plow  under  its  l)urning  sun. 

Let  us  see  what  statehood  has  done  in  other  parts  of  the  country. 

"In  ten  3' ears  after  statehood  Kentucky  had  increased  200  per  cent; 
Tennessee,  195;  Ohio,  40S;  Louisiana,  100;  Lidiana,  500;  Mississippi 
and  Alabama  over  400  per  cent;  Illinois,  350;  Missouri,  111;  Michi- 
gan, 221;  Florida,  570;  Iowa,  345;  Wisconsin,  886;  California,  3T0; 
Minnesota,  2,370." 

Ever}'  State  I  have  named  increased  at  the  surprising  average  ratio 
of  275  per  cent. 

If  you  had  not  had  statehood  in  any  one  of  the  States  I  have  named 
west  of  the  Mississippi  and  Missouri  rivers,  there  would  to-day  have 
l)een  people  passing  over  them  to  California.  They  could  never  be 
developed  under  that  form  of  government.  It  is  inimical  to  the  inter- 
ests of  every  free  man  in  America.  There  we  are,  ripe  for  statehood, 
ready  for  it. 

Gentlemen,  I  do  not  care  (measuring  my  words  and  being  a  Demo- 
crat if  the  Lord  ever  made  one,  as  I  see  it)  what  the  politics  of  that 
country  is.  I  hope  the  Senate  may  rise  to  the  point  of  giving  it  its 
rights,  no  matter  whether  it  is  Republican  or  Democratic  or  Populis- 
tic.  Those  people  have  a  right  to  their  opinions  and  to  their  free 
expression,  and  the}'  have  a  right  to  enjoy  the  citizenship  of  this 
country,  and  not  the  mere  Territorial  tutelage  thej^  have  been  under- 
going all  these  years. 

The  development  there,  in  spite  of  the  opposition  to  it,  has  beexi 
marvelous.  There  has  never  been  the  boom  daj's,  and  we  have  never 
sought  them;  but  there  has  been  a  slow,  permanent  development  of 
the  country  gradualh'  going  on  under  all  these  adverse  conditions. 
Since  the  da}'  the  statehood  bill  passed  the  House  my  mail  has  been 
absolutely  overwhelmed  with  requests  from  every  State  in  this  Union 
for  information  concerning  the  Territor}'.  The  writers  say  the}'  are 
glad  we  are  going  to  be  a  State;  they  have  some  chance  now  of  saving 
their  property,  if  they  carried  any  there,  or  of  keeping  it  if  they  made 
it  there. 

The  people  of  the  country  do  not  know  the  condition  of  the  Terri- 
tory,    If  they  did,  they  would  not  come  at  all. 

Arizona  is  ready  for  development.  Its  development  means  the  devel- 
opment of  every  part  of  our  country.  I  believe  in  the  doctrine  that 
the  prosperity  of  any  one  section  in  some  way,  somehow,  lends  pros- 
perity to  the  balance  of  it  if  you  have  not  killed  the  balance  in  trying 


326  "NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

to  make  an  artificial  prosperity  in  the  first  section.  But  if  it  is  natu- 
ral, if  it  comes  as  a  normal  result  of  statehood,  where  I  and  my  neigh- 
bors around  me  fight  our  battles  as  you  fight  your  own,  it  helps  every 
spindle  and  shoe  factory  in  New  England,  every  cotton  mill  in  the 
South,  every  enterprise  in  the  country,  for  it  gives  them  more  chance 
to  produce,  and  they  are  thus  able  to  live  higher  and  live  better,  in  a 
way  that  would  otherwise  be  beyond  their  means. 

What  reasons  are  there  agains't  it?  Why  are  other  people  so  fearful 
that  we  will  be  unable  to  help  ourselves?  We  can  not  possibh^  hurt 
them.  How  are  we  going  to  hurt  the  State  of  California,  the  State  of 
New  Jersey,  or  the  State  of  Tennessee?  What  burden  can  we  possi- 
bly be  on  you?  Has  Nevada  ever  burdened  California,  or  either  of 
her  neighbors?  Did  Tennessee's  admission  or  Kentucky's  admission 
ever  hurt  any  of  the  States  around  them  ?  Most  certainly  not.  And 
even  if  we  stopped  now  and  did  not  develop  at  all,  it  is  a  shame  to  our 
Government  to  say  that  a  Territorial  form  of  government  shall  rest 
over  what  will  be!,  before  the  next  census  is  taken,  250,000  American 
citizens. 

1  do  not  know  what  else  to  say.  I  only  wish  to  say  to  the  committee 
that  when  burdens  are  to  be  borne,  when  taxes  are  to  be  paid,  when 
avenues  for  your  successful  trade  are  to  be  opened  up,  when  men  are 
to  die,  you  will  find  a  contribution  from  us;  but  when  it  comes  to 
receiving  a  single  bit  of  recognition  at  your  hands  we  are  spurned  in 
contempt  from  the  foot  of  the  throne.  We  enlisted  the  first  company 
in  the  Spanish  war,  and  shed  the  first  blood  on  Cuban  soil.  We  bore 
that  burden  as  we  bore  all  the  balance  of  the  burdens. 

Senator  Bate.  You  allude  to  Captain  O'Neill,  do  you  not? 

Mr.  Smith.  Yes;  Captain  O'Neill  was  the  first  commissioned  officer, 
as  I  understand,  who  fell  on  that  field. 

We  pay  our  proportion  of  taxes  every  year  to  the  Federal  Govern- 
ment. Your  collectors  are  among  us.  Your  custom-houses  are  along 
our  coasts;  your  internal-revenue  collectors  and  your  marshals  are 
within  our  borders.  Yet  if  a  man  cuts  a  stick  of  timber  to  build  a 
bridge  across  a  creek  to  get  his  child  to  school  he  is  arrested  and  car- 
ried before  a  United  States  court,  it  may  be  150  miles  awa3%  and  tried 
for  depredations  on  the  public  timber,  and  we  are  forced  to  go  to 
Oregon  to  buy  lumber  to  build  our  schoolhouses.  That  is  another 
condition  from  which  we  are  suffering. 

'  You  started  out  to  protect  us  when  we  settled  that  country,  yet 
your  Indians  have  devastated  our  homes  and  killed  our  people,  and  if 
"they  were  lucky  enough  to  escape  they  have  seen  everything  they  had 
accumulated  in  years  go  up  in  a  night:  and  the  Government  will  not 
pay  them  back  a  cent,  not  a  cent.  Yet  there  is  now  a  bill  before 
Congress  to  pay  a  million  dollars  to  stop  some  plague  in  some  island 
somewhere  over  here.  New  Mexico  never  dreamed  of  such  a  thing, 
with  all  the  money  she  has  spent  to  suppress  plagues  in  the  shape  of 
smallpox,  cattle  diseases,  and  so  on.  We  have  never  even  asked  you 
to  give  us  a  niggardly  few  thousand  dollars  with  which  to  run  a  legis- 
lature, yet  3'ou  sa}'  that  we  can  not  call  it  when  we  want  It,  and, 
though  you  are  3,0o0  miles  away,  tell  us  how  long  it  shall  sit  and 
virtually  what  it  shall  do. 

Then,  gentlemen,  I  can  not  see  how  a  man  born  on  this  soil  can  object 
to  granting  us  statehood.  If  he  was  not  born  here  it  might  be  different, 
because  probably  in  his  youth,  from  his  mother's  breast,  he  did  not 


NKW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  327 

get  the  broad  inspiration  of  freedom  that  came  to  you  and  me.  But 
in  the  case  of  a  man  born  in  this  country,  appreciating  our  relations 
with  each  other,  the  functions  of  our  Government,  and  the  right  of  a 
people  to  be  free  and  independent  as  their  neighbors  are  free  and 
independent,  I  can  not  see  where  the  objection  could  come  from. 

It  is  dilticult  to  speak  temperately  on  this  matter.  Three  se})arate 
times  I  have  passed  this  bill  through  the  House  of  Representatives, 
once  under  a  suspension  of  the  rules.  Three  separate  times  has  it  been 
to  the  Senate  door  asking  for  admission.  I  have  seen  and  I  have 
advocated,  since  I  have  been  in  Congress,  the  admission  of  Washington, 
Montana,  North  Dakota,  South  Dakota,  Wyoming,  Idaho,  and  Utah. 
My  voice  has  been  raised  for  the  admission  of  ever}-  one  of  them;  and 
my  Territory,  standing  equally  competent  to  assume  every  burden  they 
had,  and  equally  capable  of  enjoying  every  right  you  gave  them,  I 
have  seen  turned  aside  at  this  door,  for  reasons  best  known  to  the  men 
M^ho  did  it. 

In  addition  to  this  simple  history  of  the  matter  and  of  statehood 
generally,  I  shall  at  some  subsequent  time,  and,  if  my  health  permits, 
even  before  the  adjournment  of  this  Congress,  place  before  the  com- 
mittee a  statistical  abstract  of  our  resources,  which  I  think  will  dem- 
onstrate without  any  question  that  we  are  entitled  to  a  vote  in  this 
Senate  on  our  bill. 

I  thank  the  committee  for  their  attention. 

The  iVcTiNG  Chairman.  Is  there  any  other  person  here,  Mr.  Smith, 
who  desires  to  speak  on  behalf  of  Arizona? 

Mr.  Smith.  I  have  no  doubt  there  are  a  number  of  persons  in  town; 
but  unfortunately  I  only  received  notice  of  this  meeting  this  morning, 
lifteen  minutes  l>efore  I  got  here.  I  rushed  from  my  room  directly 
to  the  committee  room  on  that  summons.  There  are  other  gentlemen 
here  who  know  the  country  as  well  as  I  do,  and  have  lived  in  it  as 
long.  I  shall  call  their  attention  to  the  fact  as  soon  as  I  can  possiblj^ 
communicate  with  them.  They  are  in  the  city  somewhere,  and  if  the 
committee  will  patiently  hear  them  I  shall  be  pleased. 

The  Acting  Chairman.  I  think  it  is  the  desire  of  the  committee  to 
hear  anything  that  may  be  desired  to  be  said  by  those  who  are  present 
to-day. 

Senator  Kean.  You  can  not  put  in  those  statistics  now? 

Mr.  Smith.  I  want  to  make  a  little  statement  of  them. 

Senator  Kean.  That  is  all  right;  there  is  no  hurry  about  it. 

Mr.  Smith.  That  is  what  I  understood.  I  would  like  to  go  home 
and  get  all  the  data  I  have  and  transmit  it  to  the  chairman  of  the  com- 
mittee. 

Senator  Kean.  Yes;  then  we  caa  have  it  printed,  and  it  will  be  sent 
around  to  us. 

STATEMENT  OF  HON.  BERNARD  S.  RODEY,  DELEGATE  FROM  THE 
TERRITORY  OF  NEW  MEXICO. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Mr.  chairman  and  gentlemen  of  the  committee:  I  have 
a  few  remarks  to  make  on  behalf  of  New  Mexico.  Other  citizens  of 
the  Territoiy  are  present,  and  will  ask  to  be  heard  at  different  times, 
with  the  permission  of  the  committee. 

New  Mexico,  if  the  committee  please,  is  the  oldest  Territory  belong- 
ing to  this  Government  at  the  present  time.     It  was  made  a  part  of 


328  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

tlie  public  domain  of  the  United  States  in  1848  by  the  treaty  of  Guada- 
lupe Hidalgo  with  Mexico;  but  it  had  been  under  military  govern- 
ment for  two  3^ears  previous  to  that  time,  since  August  18,  1846,  when 
the  flag  went  up  at  Sante  Fe. 

When  General  Kearney  came  to  Santa  Fe  during  the  Mexican  war 
and  raised  the  American  flag  over  the  people  there  they  came  volun- 
tarily under  this  Government,  because  General  Kearney  told  them  the 
United  States  would  establish  over  them  such  a  free  government  as 
was  customar}^  in  this  country.  They  believed  his  promise.  In  1848, 
to  be  sure  that  there  could  be  no  mistalvc  about  that  promise,  those 
people,  through  their  ceding  government,  the  Mexican  Government, 
succeeded  in  inserting  in  the  treaty  of  Guadalupe  Hidalgo  what  is 
now  known  as  the  ninth  section  of  that  treaty.  I  will  quote  it  in  my 
remarks  when  they  are  corrected.  That  treaty  sets  forth  that  Mexi- 
i>ans  who  chose  to  retain  Mexican  citizenship  may  do  so,  but  they  must 
declare  their  intention  to  so  do  within  a  3'ear. 

Senator  Kean.  That  was  the  same  thing  that  was  put  in  all  the 
treaties,  was  it  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY,  The  same  thing  that  was  put  in  all  the  treaties;  yes. 
If  they  did  not  do  so  they  were  to  be  considered  as  having  assumed 
the  citizenship  of  the  United  States.  Further,  the  treaty  provided 
that  such  persons  should,  at  a  time  to  be  adjudged  b}^  Congress,  be 
admitted  to  all  the  rights  and  privileges  of  citizens  of  the  United 
States. 

These  people  then  understood  that  to  mean  that  the  time  to  be 
adjudged  by  the  United  States  should  be  a  reasonable  time — that  is, 
a  time  in  the  lifetime  of  the  people  who  were  then  living,  and  for 
whose  particular  benefit  the  treaty  was  made. 

Believing  that,  in  1850  they  and  the  people  of  California  erected 
State  governments  without  enabling  acts  and  sent  their  Senators  and 
Representatives  on  to  Congress.  California's  were  accepted  and  New 
Mexico's  were  rejected,  her  representative  being  kept  as  a  Delegate. 
In  1850  California  passed  from  a  military  government  right  into  the 
Union.  New  Mexico  attempted  to  do  the  same  and  was  refused, 
because  the  organic  act  was  passed  pending  the  transit  of  the  Senators 
and  the  Representative  across  the  plains,  there  being  no  railroad 
nearer  than  Missouri  in  those  daj^s. 

That  was  in  1850.  In  21  different  Congresses  since  that  date — 
not  successive  ones,  because  several  Congresses  sometimes  intervened, 
during  war  days,  and  so  on — New  Mexico  has  applied  at  the  doors 
of  this  Congress  for  admission  into  the  Union,  under  her  inherent 
right  and  the  Declaration  of  Independence,  under  her  treaty  right  as 
set  forth  in  the  ninth  article  of  the  treaty  of  Guadaloupe  Hidalgo,  and 
under  the  promises  of  the  national  platforms. 

In  1876,  when  the  present  Senator  P^lkins  had  the  honor  of  repre- 
senting her  in  Congress  as  a  Delegate,  her  bill  passed  both  Houses  of 
Congress  by  a  two-thirds  vote,  and  was  lost  in  conference.  In  nearly 
every  Congress  since,  she  has  been  here  pleading  for  admission  to  the 
Union. 

No  person  who  reads  the  ninth  article  of  the  treaty  of  Guadaloupe 
Hidalgo  can  den}-  for  a  moment  that  the  time  therein  mentioned  meant 
a  reasonable  time,  and  a  time  during  the  lives  of  the  people  who  lived 
in  the  portion  of  country  ceded.  Of  course,  when  one  country  cedes 
a  portion  of  its  domain  to  another,  the  ceding  country  immediately 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  329 

loses  all  interest  in  the  land  ceded,  and  as  a  consequence  we  were  left 
at  the  mercy  of  this  Government. 

If,  as  I  said  in  the  House,  this  were  an  executory  contract  between 
individuals,  and  you  should  bring  it  into  court  to  enforce  your  rights, 
there  would  not  be  a  court  but  what  would  hold  that  the  time  meant 
was  a  reasonable  time. 

In  1850  we  adopted  a  constitution,  and  it  was  a  splendid  one.  It 
Avas  so  advanced  for  those  days,  ten  years  before  the  war,  that  Con- 
gress woidd  not  admit  us  under  it.  They  held  that  it  was  too  far 
advanced.  We  adopted  another  constitution  in  1875,  when  Colorado 
got  in.  We  applied  jointly  with  her  at  the  time.  Owing  to  an  acci- 
dent, the  merest  accident,  New  Mexico  did  not  come  in.  Look  at  the 
way  the  great  State  of  Colorado  has  advanced.  That  will  show  you 
how  a  State  will  advance  as  compared  with  a  Territory'. 

In  1889  we  adopted  another  constitution,  a  copy  of  which  is  in  the 
governor's  report,  which  has  been  said  by  every  person  who  has  ever 
examined  it  to  be  a  model  as  an  organic  instrument  for  any  juris- 
diction. 

At  21  different  Congresses,  as  I  say,  we  have  applied.  The  bill  you 
are  now  considering  is  the  forty -sixth  New  Mexico  has  had  before 
Congress  for  admission  into  the  Union. 

Why  are  we  kept  out!*  At  one  time  it  has  been  for  one  cause,  and 
at  another  it  has  been  for  another.  Congress  in  1850  characterized 
our  constitution  as  so  far  advanced  that  they  would  not  let  us  in,  and 
in  1875  they  said  that  because  our  people  were  so  illiterate  and  so 
ignorant  they  would  not  let  us  in.  What  legitimate  reason  can  be 
given  now? 

About  twenty-one  or  twenty-two  years  ago,  when  the  railroads 
arrived  in  the  Territory  for  the  first  time.  New  Mexico  took  on  a  new 
impulse  of  progress  and  started  to  tax  herself  for  her  own  betterment. 
I  say  without  fear  of  possible  contradiction  that  there  is  not  a  juris- 
diction belonging  to  this  nation  (I  have  ceased  to  say  "in  this  nation '' 
since  the  insular  decisions)  that  shows  the  progress  that  New  Mexico 
has  shown  in  the  last  two  decades.  Therefore  the  citizens  of  this 
country  whose  minds  were  filled  with  ideas  with  reference  to  the  con- 
dition of  New  Mexico  twentv  years  ago  have  now  a  wholly  inadequate 
idea  of  her  condition  as  it  exists  at  the  present  time. 

We  have,  per  capita,  the  finest  system  of  public  schools  anywhere 
in  the  nation.  We  have  more  money  invested  in  them  per  capita  than 
any  other  jurisdiction  in  the  nation.  Our  present  schools  cost  from 
two  and  a  quarter  to  two  and  a  half  millions  of  dollars.  We  have 
more  puldic  institutions  per  capita  than  any  other  State  or  Territory 
in  the  Union.     And  yet  they  characterize  us  as  illiterate! 

The  census  of  1900  shows  some  40  per  cent  of  illiteracy  in  New 
Mexico.  It  showed  42  per  cent  ten  j^ears  ago.  The  census  is  abso- 
lutoly  wrong  and  worthless. 

Senator  Kean.  How  do  you  get  your  basis  of  population  and  money 
invested  per  capita  for  the  schools  if  the  census  is  all  wrong? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Those  are  the  very  things  that  prove  the  census  to  be 
wrong;  and  if  the  gentleman  will  permit  me  I  will  in  a  moment  show 
him. 

The  census  law  provided  for  the  payment  of  |5  per  day  for  taking 
the  population  of  country  precincts.  When  j^ou  have  to  pay  $10 
a  day  for  a  team,  as  j'ou  do  in  that  country,  you  will  not  put  down 


330  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

very  many  names.  They  did  not  get  anyone  who  had  lately  come 
into  the  country;  they  simply  put  down  those  they  knew,  and  that 
sort  of  thincr.  At  the  election  at  which  I  was  elected  the  lists  showed 
a  registration  of  within  a  few  hundred  of  (jO,000  voters — a  great  many 
in  that  large  area;  for  recollect  the  area  of  New  Mexico  only  lacks  a 
few  hundred  square  miles  of  being  as  great  as  the  combined  area  of 
New  York,  New  Jersey,  and  all  of  the  New  P^ngland  States. 

We  can  not  Iw  any  possibility  register  more  than  three-fourths  of 
our  voters  in  the  time  that  is  allowed  for  such  things  in  the  Territo- 
ries; yet  we  registered  and  put  down  the  names  and  residences  of 
within  a  few  hundred  of  60,000  voters. 

The  rule  of  5  persons  to  1  voter  in  population  is  quite  as  true  in 
New  Mexico  as  it  is  anywhere  in  this  Union — in  fact,  more  so.  The 
natives,  who  form  a  good  two-tifths  of  our  population,  have  families 
ranging  from  5  to  10.  I  have  even  seen  a  happy  father  with  '2-i:  chil- 
dren, to  show  you  the  extreme;  and  while  it  might  be  said  that  in  a 
mining  country  of  that  sort  the  people  are  to  a  large  extent  adven- 
turers, miners,  cattlemen,  and  so  on,  that  day  has  passed  away  in  New 
Mexico.     It  has  a  permanent  population. 

Then,  again,  we  have  7,000, «)()0  sheep,  and  we  have  probably  10,000 
or  15,000  people  out  on  the  ranges  looking  after  them.  We  have  from 
a  million  and  a  quarter  to  a  million  and  a  half  of  cattle,  and  we  have 
from  7,000  to  10,000  people  out  looking  after  them.  W^e  have  10,000 
prospectors  all  over  that  vast  area  all  the  time,  and  as  a  consequence 
the  census  enumerators  simply  can  not  get  the  population. 

The  governor's  report  shows  (on  page  10,  I  believe)  that  if  this 
census  is  true  half  the  counties  of  New  Mexico  have  not  increased  in 
population  in  ten  years;  yet  in  some  of  those  same  counties  there  are 
towns  with  from  three  to  six  thousand  people  that  were  not  on  the 
map  four  years  ago;  as,  for  instance,  the  town  of  Santa  Rosa,  the  town 
of  Cucumcari,  and  half  a  dozen  smaller  places  that  were  not  on  the 
map  when  the  last  census  was  taken;  yet  those  counties  have  practically 
not  increased  at  all,  according  to  the  census.  The  Director  of  the 
Census  admitted  to  me  yesterday  that  if  it  were  possible  I  ought  to 
get  an  act  of  Congress  to  correct  the  census  as  to  New  Mexico,  because 
he  admits  it  was  not  taken  properly.  It  is  no  criterion  as  to  our 
population. 

The  governor  figures  our  population  at  the  time  the  census  was 
taken  as  about  300,000  people.  We  have  established  in  New  Mexico 
since  then  75  or  80  post-offices.  We  now  have  some  363  post-offices  in 
the  Territory.  AVe  have  built  eight  or  nine  hundred  miles  of  railroad 
in  the  last  two  years  or  a  little  over.,  and  with  the  consequent  influx 
of  population  we  sureh"  now  have  the  population  we  claim.  There 
has  been  a  further  influx  of  population  on  account  of  mining  and  for 
other  reasons,  until  I  am  satisfied  to-day  that  while  the  census  only 
gives  us  195,310  people,  we  have  actually  nearer  400,000;  and  we  surely 
have  between  three  hundred  and  thirty  and  three  hundred  and  fifty 
thousand  people  in  New  Mexico,  without  any  question  whatever. 

The  school  census  for  the  last  year,  which  has  just  come  in,  shows 
that  there  are  about  70,000  children  of  school  age.  Those  statistics 
prove  conclusively  that  the  census  as  to  New  Mexico  is  wrong. 

I  have  here  a  small  statement,  which  I  will  submit  to  the  stenog- 
rapher, showing  the  taxable  property. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  331 

(The  statement  referred  to  will  be  found  at  the  ecd  of  Mr.  Rodey's 
remarks.) 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Wo  have  in  New  Mexico  122,510  square  miloH  of  area, 
or  nearly  80,000,000  acres.  Between  fifty-live  and  sixty  million  acres 
of  that  is  still  public  domain.  About  twenty-iive  millions  of  it  is  pri- 
vate property,  that  will  be  subject  to  taxation  when  we  become  a  State. 
It  is  calculated  conservatively— I  have  been  over  it  time  and  again  and 
know  whereof  I  speak — that  we  have  between  two  hundred  and  tifty 
and  three  hundred  million  dollars'  worth  of  property  that  will  be  sub- 
ject to  taxation  when  we  become  a  State.  A  tax  of  1  per  cent  levied 
upon  that  would  bring  in  from  two  and  a  half  to  three  million  of  dol- 
lars per  annum,  so  that  we  could  in  our  constitution,  for  the  first 
twenty  j^ears  of  our  State  life,  limit  our  taxation  to  1  per  cent.  We 
only  require  now  about  $1,200,000  per  annum  to  pay  all  our  fixed 
charges  and  all  the  running  expenses  of  the  Territorial  government. 

New  constitutions  always  economize.  Therefore  it  can  be  truly  said 
that  were  we  inclined  to  extreme  economy  we  might  even  limit  our 
taxation  to  one-half  of  1  per  cent  for  the  first  ten  or  twenty  years  of 
our  State  life,  and  then  have  the  lowest  taxed  community  in  the  United 
States  of  America. 

Senator  Kean.  You  do  not  have  any  State  tax  at  all  now;  you  have 
nothing  but  municipal  taxes,  have  you  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  We  have  Territorial,  municipal,  count}^  school,  and  road 
taxes  now,  the  same  as  anywhere  else.  We  pa}^  the  largest  school 
taxes,  I  believe,  of  any  Territory  or  State  in  the  Union.  Our  tax 
collected  for  school  purposes  last  year  amounted  to  a  little  more  than 
a  million  of  dollars,  one-half  of  which  was  paid  in  teachers'  wages. 
We  have  a  fine  capitol  Iniilding;  we  have  a  penitentiary  l)uilding;  we 
have  an  insane  asylum;  we  have  an  agricultural  college;  we  have  a 
university;  we  have  two  normal  universities,  and  we  have  from  ten  to 
fifteen  cities,  modern,  up-to-date  places,  with  from  one  to  five  fine  brick 
schoolhouses  in  each  of  them,  costing,  as  in  my  own  town,  for  instance^ 
$30,000  and  140,000  apiece. 

There  is  a  general  impression  all  over  this  country  that  New  Mexico 
is  somewhat  of  a  crude  place.  If  you  were  down  at  the  city  of  Albu- 
querque, and  a  gentleman  should  invite  you  to  dinner,  you  would  think 
you  were  on  Madison  avenue,  New  York,  at  least  as  far  as  some  of  our 
population  is  concerned. 

The  people  of  the  country  think  we  are  "Mexicans,"  that  we  speak 
Spanish,  and  that  we  are  illiterate  and  ignorant.  Now,  just  stop  to 
think.  Every  person  in  New  Mexico  of  Spanish  blood,  under  56  years 
of  age,  except  a  very  few  on  the  southern  )»order  who  came  in  from 
old  Mexico,  was  born  under  the  American  flag.  As  a  consequence  it 
is  the  grandchildren  of  the  people  who  were  there  when  the  treaty  was 
made  who  live  there  now.  And  I  want  to  sa}^  for  them  that  they  are 
as  badly  libeled  and  slandered  a  people  as  there  are  in  this  nation  to-day. 
They  are  as  good  citizens  as  you  can  find  anywhere. 

The  older  generation,  slightly  bucolic  in  temperament,  sheep  raisers, 
minding  their  business,  patriarchal  in  their  ways,  and  all  that,  are  citi- 
zens of  the  best  class.  They  are  somewhat  of  a  brake  upon  the  some- 
times devil-may-care,  go-ahead  sort  of  Americanism,  so  called,  that  has 
sprung  up  in  places  among  them.  Recollect  they  comprise  about  two- 
fifths  of  our  population.     About  three-fifths  of  our  population  are 


332  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

people  from  the  States  who  have  come  in  since,  and  their  descendants. 
That  fact  (as  to  the  relati\'e  proportion  of  the  races)  was  not  known 
until  a  year  or  two  ago.  The  census  never  showed  us  anything  about 
the  population.  You  can  not  tell  anything  about  it  from  that;  3'ou 
have  to  figure  it  out  independenth\ 

You  must  go  into  every  part  of  the  Territory  in  order  to  realize  it. 
You  maj^  travel  all  over  the  Territory  hundreds  of  miles  along  the 
railroads  and  unless  you  take  special  pains  about  it,  or  there  is  .some 
occasion  when  there  is  an  excursion  or  something  like  that,  you  will 
probably  not  hear  a  word  of  Spanish  spoken  the  whole  distance.  In 
the  justices'  courts  and  in  remote  places  there  is  a  good  deal  of  Span- 
isli  spoken  yet  among  the  people,  but  a  very  large  majority  of  thi.s 
two-tifths  of  the  popidation  speak  English  as  well  as  Spanish. 

You  will  see  deeds  made  between  one  Spaniard  and  another  out  in 
the  remote  districts  that  are  brought  in  to  the  county  seats  and  i-ecordeA 
are  in  Spanish  and  so  recorded,  but  every  record  that  is  official,  as  oi 
proceedings  in  the  probate  and  district  courts  in  New  Mexico,  from 
one  end  to  the  other,  is  kept  in  the  English  language,  and  English  is 
overwhelmingl}'  and  officially  the  language  of  the  country.  _  The  few 
Spanish  newspapers  that  are  published  among  us  carry  headlines  read- 
ing: "It  is  the  duty  of  every  father  to  see  that  his  children  learn  the 
language  of  the  country,  andthat  is  English."'  That  is  the  phraseology 
that  is  used. 

The  people  in  New  Mexico,  irrespective  of  politics,  are  a  unit  for 
statehood.  The  promise  to  give  us  statehood  has  been  for  two  national 
conventions  in  both  platforms,  Repultlican  and  Democratic.  Our  con- 
ventions on  statehood  have  been  nonpartisan.  The  delegations  sent 
on  here  to  the  House  to  help  statehood  along  are  nonpartisan.  The 
people  are  a  unit.  Almost  every  newspaper  of  the  Territory  carries 
the  headline,  "New  Mexico  demands  statehood  from  the  Fifty-seventh 
Congress;"  "New  Mexico  of  right  ought  to  be  a  free  and  independent 
State  of  the  Union,""  and  such  phrases.  You  will  lind  them  in  every 
newspaper. 

The  people  are  so  anxious  over  the  matter  that  they  feel  that  Con- 
gress and  the  nation  are  intentionally  deceiving  them,  after  all  these 
efforts  they  have  made  for  all  these  years  to  get  into  the  Union. 

A  Territory,  as  was  well  said  by  the  Delegate  from  Arizona,  is  a 
place  whose  people  are  presumed  to  be  unlit  to  govern  themselves, 
because  it  is  a.ssumed  by  the  average  investor,  at  least,  and  the  average 
intending  umnigrant,  that  if  it  were  lit  for  anything  else  it  would  be 
a  State.  As  a  consequence,  simply  because  it  is  a  Territory  many 
persons  will  not  settle  in  it. 

Then,  again,  the  alien  law  applies.  You  can  not,  if  occasion  requires, 
go  over  to  England  and  finance  any  enterprise  except  under  such 
restrictions  as  are  virtually  prohi])itive. 

Furthermore,  there  is  this  continuous  superintending  control  which- 
Congress  has  over  us  and  which  is  even  outside  and  beyond  the  law  or 
rule  of  vested  rights.  You  can  not  get  a  vested  right  in  a  Territory 
by  its  laws,  because  you  have  staring  you  in  the  face  notice  that  Con- 
gress has  a  never-ending  superintending  control  over  its  legislation,  a 
control  against  which  the  statute  of  limitations  does  not  run.  Because 
of  that  no  man  will  invest  largely  in  a  Territory  unless  it  is  in  a  gold 
mine  or  something  where  he  can"^see  the  cash  come  out  so  quickly  that 
nothing  can  stop  it. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    I^ILL.  833 

As  a  consequence,  you  Ccan  only  get  capital  for  mining  enterprises 
where  the  gold  is  in  sight  rcHidy  to  be  shoveled  right  out:  but  where 
it  is  a  little  slower,  although  sure  on  the  calculation  of  experts,  and  so 
on,  when  all  is  ready,  and  the  capitalists  of  the  syndicate  take  advice 
of  their  counsel,  the  advice  is:  "There  is  danger  in  this  superintend- 
ing control  of  Congress,  and  if  these  people  were  fit  for  anything  else 
but  Territorial  government  they  would  have  been  a  State  long  ago.'* 
As  a  consequence,  capital  being  always  timid,  it  is  never  invested  in 
a  Territory  as  easil}'  or  largel}^  as  in  a  State. 

Yet,  in  spite  of  that,  in  the  last  ^^ear  or  two  New  Mexico  has  made 
more  progress  than  any  other  part  of  this  Union.  As  1  said,  it  has 
built  800  miles  of  railroad,  and  there  are  several  hundred  miles  of  track 
under  construction  at  the  present  time. 

The  condition  of  everything  in  New  Mexico  is  improving  vastly — so 
fast,  in  fact,  that  its  people  confess  that  in  all  its  histor}'  it  never  made 
such  rapid  progress  as  it  has  during  the  last  two  or  three  years. 

We  want  to  come  into  the  Union.  We  have  been  asking  for  admission 
for  so  many  years  that  we  think  no  argument  ought  to  be  made  against 
it.  Our  population  now  is  three  times  that  of  Wyoming,  eight  times 
that  of  Nevada,  twice  that  of  Idaho,  and  is  almost  equal  to  that  of  Ver- 
mont. It  is  nearly  twice  that  of  Delaware.  The  population  argvmient 
cuts  no  figure.     Then  w'hy  should  we  be  kept  out^ 

I  have  bought  the  clippings  of  the  newspapers  to  see  what  the  public 
sentiment  is  in  this  country  as  to  why  we  should  be  kept  out  of  the 
Union.  There  seems  to  be  an  argument  by  the  unthinking  people  of 
the  country  that  we  have  no  constitutional  rights  that  ought  to  be 
respected  by  Congress.  But  a  great  man}^  splendid  newspapers  and 
intelligent  editors,  be  it  said  to  their  credit,  come  squarely  out  and  say, 
"No  matter  what  your  politics,  no  matter  what  your  effect  upon 
national  legislation,  you  have  an  inherent  and  a  treat}^  right  to  enjoy 
the  same  blessings  and  privileges  as  any  other  citizens  of  these  United 
States;  therefore  we  are  for  j'our  admission;"  and  they  advocate  it. 

But  there  are  others  who  say,  "It  would  destroy  the  equilibrium  of 
the  United  States;  it  would  have  this  effect,  and  it  would  have  that 
effect."  As  though  gentlemen  sw^orn  to  do  their  duty  here  would  treat 
us  in  that  way!  Our  people  begin  to  be  discontented  when  they  look 
and  see  that  for  a  half  century  the  revenue  law\s  have  been  enforced  in 
New  Mexico,  and  Indians  have  been  permitted  to  depredate  upon  them 
when  they  were  a  thousand  miles  away  from  a  railroad,  during  war 
days  and  since,  and  their  property  has  been  destroyed  and  their  families 
impoverished,  and  yet  no  redress,  save  in  recent  vears,  and  very  little 
then,  has  been  made.  When  they  see  that  and  then  see  you  turn  75 
per  cent,  or  whatever  it  is,  of  the  Filipinos'  revenues  into  their  own 
treasury  for  the  support  of  their  schools,  and  turn  the  same  amount 
from  the  Porto  Rican  revenues  into  their  treasur}^  for  the  support  of 
their  schools,  and  when  they  see  the  free  flag  of  Cuba's  own  people  go 
up  over  a  people  they  helped  to  free — for  the  three  Territories  furnished 
two-thirds  of  the  President's  regiment— they  do  say  that  any  people 
who  will  put  their  rights  upon  a  partisan  basis  are  not  worthy  of  the 
institutions  of  this  great  country.  This  nation  never  gave  us  a  dollar 
for  the  education  of  our  children.  It  does  more  for  the  very  Indians 
than  it  does  for  us. 

We  feel  that  no  matter  what  our  politics  may  be  we  should  be 
admitted  into  this  Union.     I  want  to  say,  Republican  to  the  core  that 


31-54  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

1  am,  that  while  New  Mexico  and  Oklahoma  are  Republican,  and  only 
Arizona  i>s  Democratic,  the  opposite  part}'  in  the  House  to  a  man  sup- 
ported this  measure.  They  put  it  upon  a  higher  ground;  they  said 
that  their  heritage  of  liberty,  born  of  the  fathers'  blood  and  sanctified 
by  the  mothers'  tears,  was  something-  dearer  and  higher  and  greater 
than  the  success  or  failure  of  any  political  party. 

New  Mexico  has  been  Republican  for  half  a  centur}'.  Her  wool 
interests,  her  sheep  interests,  her  cattle  interests  make  her  so;  but  she 
is  also  naturally  so.  The  natiyes  there  are  naturally  Republican. 
Now,  after  half  a  century's  Republicanism,  the  people  are  saying-  that 
we  are  Democratic,  and  endeayor  to  keep  us  out  on  that  ground.  I 
assume — 1  would  not  dare  to  assume  otherwise — that  gentlemen  here 
will  not  consider  those  things,  but  will  admit  us  upon  our  merits;  we 
ask  it  on  no  other  ground.     We  demand  it  as  a  right. 

We  had  a  lot  of  literature  presented  to  the  House  committee,  some 
of  which  has  been  distributed  to  the  committee  here.  Among  other 
things,  there  is  the  goyernor's  report  showing  the  population,  show- 
ing our  resources,  showing  our  cattle,  our  wool,  our  sheep,  our  mines, 
and  our  institutions.  New  Mexico's  mines  do  not  show  up  in  the 
reports  as  well  as  they  might  for  the  reason  that  she  has  no  reduction 
works.  On  the  southeast,  at  El  Paso,  in  Texas,  there  are  large  reduc- 
tion works,  and  on  the  northeast,  at  Pueblo,  in  Colorado,  there  are 
ver}'  large  reduction  works.  As  a  consequence  our  mineral  output 
largely  goes  to  Colorado  and  to  Texas. 

We  had  hearings  before  the  House;  here  is  a  copy  of  the  hearings 
had  there  as  to  all  the  Territories.  We  haye  a  bureau  of  immigration 
in  Mexico,  You  will  lind  before  you  yolumes  entitled  Mines  and 
Minerals  of  New  Mexico,  Climate  is  Fate,  etc.;  you  will  tind  before 
y^ou  all  sorts  of  newspaper  and  statistical  accounts  of  the  Territory; 
you  will  tind  a  series  of  declarations  and  resokitions  adopted  at  Albu- 
querque, N.  Mex.,  on  the  15th  of  October  last,  in  ahnost  similar 
language  and  form  to  the  Declaration  of  Independence,  which  docu- 
ment has  not  ceased  to  be  with  us  an  instrument  the  phraseology  of 
which  sets  forts  the  wants  of  a  people. 

Detining  a  Territory,  I  once  phrased  the  matter  this  way,  and  I 
think  it  is  a  good  wa}'  to  put  it: 

'"What  a  mayerick  a  Territory  is!  It  is  no  part  of  the  United 
States.  Congress  can  annul  its  laws;  it  can  preyent  it  from  enacting 
any  laws  at  all.  It  could,  if  it  wanted  to,  appoint  eyery  official  from 
the  outside,  from  goyernor  to  constable.  It  can  pass  any  sort  of  a 
tariff  law  it  wants  to  for  a  Territory  because  it  is  no  part  of  the  United 
States.  A3^e,  it  could  eyen  code  a  Territory  to  a  foreign  country  in 
the  settlement  of  war, 

"The  people  of  a  Territory  haye  no  supreme  yoice  in  anything, 
Thoy  never  yote  for  a  President  nor  a  member  of  Congress.  If  they 
had  a  million  yotes  to  cast  it  would  not  atiect  in  the  least  any  national 
election  or  national  policy.  Its  voters  are  political  nondescripts  pure 
and  simple,  until  their  country  becomes  a  State." 

And  1  might  add  with  reason  that  New  Mexico  appears  to  be  the 
Cinderella  of  American  jurisdictions. 

As  3  on  will  see  by  the  map  here,  the  northern  half  of  the  Territory- 
is  bigger  than  all  of  New  England;  and  it  is  one  vast  coal  field.  The 
Territory  has  tracts  of  timber  larger  than  the  State  of  Massachusetts 
within  its  area.  It  has  resources  untold.  It  will  3'et  surprise  this 
nation  in  its  development.     It  produced  nearly,  if  not  quite,  a  million 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  335 

and  a  half  tons  of  bituminous  coal  last  year  and  may  produce  two 
millions  the  coming-  year.  Senator  Clark,  of  the  present  United  States 
Senate,  owns  a  large  coal  mine  on  the  western  line  which  is  producing 
coal  all  the  time. 

All  these  red  blotches  that  you  see  on  the  map  indicate  land  grants 
made  by  the  Spanish  Government  prior  to  the  acquisition  of  the  Ter- 
ritory by  the  United  States.  Those  are  principalities  in  themselves. 
For  instance,  this  one,  the  Maxwell  land  grant,  is  bigger  than  some  of 
the  New  England  States. 

The  Acting  Chairman.  Are  those  grants  all  conhrmed  now? 

Mr.  KoDEY.  Yes,  sir;  thanks  to  the  land  court  which  Congress 
created  for  us  about  ten  or  twelve  years  ago  which  has  done  splendid 
work.  They  are  about  all  confirmed.  The  existence  of  these  land 
grants  is  one  thing  that  kept  the  Territory  back  for  many  years.  Now 
that  the  title  is  known,  cattlemen  and  others  are  buying  them  with  a 
view  to  using  them  for  pasturage,  for  the  timber,  the  iron,  the  coal, 
and  one  thing  and  another;  and  the  result  is  a  tremendous  impetus  to 
New  Mexico.  The  difficulty  now  is  to  get  the  title  settled  among  the 
heirs,  because  they  are  always  confirmed  to  the  original  grantees  and 
their  legal  representatives,  and  it  often  takes  two  or  three  years'  litiga- 
tion to  find  who  is  legally  entitled  to  the  land  at  the  present  time. 

I  settled  a  land  grant"  here  (indicating  on  map)  two  or  three  years 
ago,  the  CeboUeta  land  grant  with  200,000  acres  in  it.  It  was  made  in 
the  year  1800  to  30  persons,  and  I  think  there  are  somewhere  near 
a  thousand  descendants  who  are  now  entitled  to  it. 

The  Acting  Chairman.  It  was  a  colony  grant,  then? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir;  it  was.  They  are  buying  up  the  interests 
now  all  around  the  grant. 

The  question  of  the  titles  to  some  of  these  grants  is  still  pending  in 
the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United  States;  but  most  of  these  grants 
are  now  private  property,  subject  to  taxation  for  the  support  of  a 
State  government,  when  we  shall  be  admitted.  All  the  railroads 
through  the  Territory— and  we  have  about  3,000  miles  of  railroad  in 
the  Territory  and  several  hundred  miles  under  construction — will  be 
subject  to  taxation. 

The  Acting  Chairman.  Will  you  explain  something  to  me  right 
there?  How  does  it  come  that  those  grants  contain  such  a  large  area 
of  land,  when  under  the  Mexican  Government  the  limit  was  ordinarily 
11  square  leagues  ? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  We  in  the  Territory  believe,  sir,  that  there  never  was 
a  grant  made  in  New  Mexico  for  any  such  quantity  as  they  were  con- 
firmed for.  Congress  confirmed  grants  for  those  vast  quantities  before 
the  bar  and  the  people  of  New  Mexico  managed  to  prevent  it.  The 
boundary  calls  in  a  grant  would  say  that  their  grant  ran  from  one  moun- 
tain to  another,  and  the  interested  i^arties  who  would  bu}-  them  up 
and  would  come  here  to  influence  Congress,  and  who  often  got  people 
in  the  Territory  to  apply  here  to  get  them  confirmed,  would  make  the 
boundary  calls  "include  vast  tracts  instead  of  what  was  intended.  Large 
grants  of  land  were,  of  course,  made,  in  many  instances  by  the  Spanish 
and  Mexican  authorities;  but  it  is  my  opinion  that  many  have  been 
confirmed  for  many  times  the  amount  originally  intended  to  be  granted. 
The  land  court,  be  it  said  to  its  credit,  has  restored  to  the  public  do- 
main more  than  7,000,000  acres  of  land;  so  that  it  has  paid  for  itself 
well.     That  amount  has  been  thrown  back  into  the  public  domain. 

The  Acting  Chairman.  These  grants  are  all  taxed,  1  suppose? 


^336  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Not  yet,  sir,  or  only  at  a  very  low  rate.  It  is  hard  to- 
change  from  the  customs  and  systems  we  have  as  a  Territory,  because 
we  are  of  such  vast  area.  We  believe  that  with  the  change  to  a  State 
form  of  government,  when  we  turn  over  a  new  leaf  and  begin  anew, 
we  will  g^et  everything  taxed  rightfully;  because  with  all  the  property 
in  New  Mexico  taxed  at  even  its  moderate  market  value  1  per  cent 
of  taxation  would  pay  every  iixed  charge  we  have  to  pay,  support 
every  office  we  have  to  support,  and  run  a  State  government  and  our 
institutions  and  public  schools  without  question. 

I  will  be  very  glad  to  answer  any  questions  the  committee  may  wish 
to  ask. 

The  Acting  Chairman.  Before  you  close  will  you  tell  us  what  is 
the  funded  debt  of  New  Mexico? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  New  Mexico,  as  a  Territory,  owes  less  than  one  million 
of  dollars.  There  are  municipal  bonds  of  course  that  are  taken  care 
of  by  the  municipalities,  that  have  no  concern  with  the  Territory  as 
such  or  with  Congress  or  anyone  else.  They  are  being  properly  taken 
care  of.  We  are  in  good  shape  financially.  The  committee  in  the 
House  calculated  on  our  presentation,  as  you  will  see  by  the  report, 
that  our  indebtedness  was  about  $948,000.  It  was  eleven  hundred  and 
odd  thousand,  but  we  had  on  hand  two  hundred  and  fifty  or  sixty 
thousand  dollars  in  cash  to  credit  against  it.  We  are  in  first-rate  shape 
financially.  The  money  on  hand  will  reduce  it  to  1948,000;  and  you 
will  find  that  showing  in  the  report  that  was  made  by  the  House  com- 
mittee to  the  House. 

We  are  in  splendid  condition.  The  only  thing  that  keeps  us  back  is 
our  Territorial  condition. 

Now,  about  this  question  of  "carpetbaggers,"  to  use  a  term  that  is 
well  known  in  this  country.  Officials  are  sent  down  there  to  take  our 
offices,  in  violation  of  the  plank  in  the  national  platforms,  that  says 
we  are  entitled  to  home  rule.  We  have  nothing  in  common  with 
them.  They  come  there;  some  stay  there  afterwards  and  make  very 
good  citizens;  others  do  not.  We  have  a  good  set  of  officials  now,  but 
it  has  not  always  been  so.  We  would  much  rather  elect  our  own 
officials. 

We  want  a  voice  in  this  country.  We  see  you  every  day  changing 
tarifi's  that  aftect  us;  we  see  you  changing  national  policies;  we  see 
communities  with  half  or  a  third  of  our  population  having  a  voice  in 
the  land.  Not  one  of  us  has  ever  voted  for  a  President.  There  are 
men  there  55  years  of  age,  born  on  this  soil,  who  do  not  know  what  it 
is  to  live  under  a  State  government;  they  have  never  experienced  it; 
they  have  never  enjoyed  it.  Three-fifths  of  the  people  that  have 
come  there  have  moved  there  expecting  the  Territory  would  be  a  State 
in  a  3^ear  or  two,  thinking  that  in  the  nature  of  things  w-e  could  not 
be  kept  out  any  longer;  thinking  that  an  invitation  to  settle  carried 
an  implication  that  a  State  would  be  established.  Now  we  find  their 
children  growing  up,  and  still  we  remain  a  Territory. 

Do  3^ou  not  know,  gentlemen,  that  since  the  insular  decisions  you  do 
not  have  to  beg  the  question  very  much  to  say  that  a  child  born  in  a 
Territory,  even  though  that  Territory  afterwards  becomes  a  State,  is 
not  eligible  to  the  Presidency  ? 

There  is  a  possibility  that  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United  States 
will  yet  hold  that.     I  am  not  saying  that  it  will.     My  clients  kiudly 


"NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  337 

say  I  have  some  knowledge  of  law,  but  I  dare  not  say  that  at  this 
time.  1  say,  however,  that  when  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United 
States  held  in  the  insular  decisions  that  the  phrase  in  the  Constitution 
to  the  effect  that  duties,  imposts,  and  excises  must  be  uniform 
"throughout  the  United  States"  did  not  include  Territories,  you  do 
not  beg  the  question  when  you  say  that  the  Constitution,  where  it 
says  that  to  be  eligi))ie  to  the  Presidency  a  person  must  be  a  "natural- 
l)orn  citizen  of  the  United  States,"  does  not  include  a  child  born  in  a 
Territory. 

Now,  I  will  not  go  to  the  extent  of  saying  that  the  coga't  will  so  hold, 
because  I  would  not  hold  that  way  were  1  a  judge  on  the  bench;  but 
you  do  not  have  to  beg  the  c^uestion  very  much  to  sa}^  that  the  Supreme 
Court  might  hold  that  doctrine,  that  a  child  born  in  a  Territory  is 
never  after  eligible  to  the  Presidency. 

It  is  a  matter  of  importance  to  a  citizen  of  the  United  States  whether 
or  not  his  child  shall  be  eligible  to  the  highest  office  in  the  land.  I 
certainly  do  not  want  my  child  ineligible,  nor  does  anj'one  else.  But 
that  is  the  least  of  the  objections. 

You  have  heard  so  much  about  Territories  here  in  Washington  that 
3^ou  no  doubt  think  that  we  are  a  quarrelsome  sort  of  people.  That 
comes  from  this  fact:  We  may  be  a  very  quiet  community  down 
there.  A  man  wants  office,  and  he  has  influence  here,  having  come 
from  the  States,  and  he  gets  some  Senators  and  Representatives  to  see 
the  President  or  whoever  has  the  giving  of  the  office,  and  he  gets  the 
appointment.  Immediately  there  are  objections  made.  Some  other 
people  down  there  know  Senators  and  Representatives  too,  and  they 
write  here.  Those  people  perhaps  could  not  be  elected  to  any  office 
in  the  Territory  themselves;  yet  they  try  to  thwart  the  appointment  of 
some  one  else.  Then  there  is  a  fight,  and  there  are  charges  and  counter- 
charges, criminations  and  recriminations,  all  on  the  part  of  a  little 
coterie  of  people  that  do  not  amount  to  anything  as  compared  to  the 
whole  people.  The  result  is,  because  all  our  political  dirty  linen  is 
washed  here,  that  jou  imagine  we  are  quarrelsome  and  not  peacea])le 
and  law  abiding. 

As  a  matter  of  fact,  gentlemen,  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico  is  one 
of  the  most  peaceable  communities  in  the  countr}'.  We  never  have 
had  any  strikes  down  there,  practically  speaking,  except  one  railroad 
strike  that  went  clear  through  the  United  States.  That  is  the  only  one 
we  have  ever  had  to  amount  to  anything.  The  natives  are  splendid 
people.  They  never  bother  about  that  kind  of  thing.  They  raise 
their  wool  and  sell  it,  and  the  same  with  their  other  products. 

I  would  like  to  have  the  privilege,  if  the  committee  cares  to  sit  any 
longer,  of  having  a  few  gentlemen  heard  who  are  here. 

The  Acting  Chairman.  1  see  it  is  after  12  o'clock.  What  is  the 
pleasure  of  the  committee'? 

Senator  Bate.  I  suppose  these  gentlemen  want  to  go  back,  do  they 
not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  the}^  do,  sir;  and  I  would  be  very  thankful  if  they 
could  be  heard  for  a  few  minutes.  If  you  will  permit  me,  I  will  be 
glad  to  call  them,  sir. 

(After  discussion,  the  chairman  announced  that  the  committee  would 
take  a  recess  until  2.30  o'clock  p.  m.) 
H  s  B 22 


338  NEW    STATEHOOD    RILL. 

AFTER   RECESS. 

After  the  expiration  of  the  recess  the  committee  resumed  its  sessioa 

Present:  Senators  Beveridg-e  (chairman),  Bard.  Bate,  Dillingham, 
Heitfeld,  and  Kean. 

Mr.  RoDET.  With  the  permission  of  the  committee,  1  will  now  intro- 
duce jSIajor  Llewellwyn,  of  New  Mexico. 

The  Chairman.  Are  you  through,  Mr.  Rodey? 

Mr.  Rodey.  There  are  a  few  more  things  I  might  say,  but  they  will 
be  very  hriet. 

The  Chairman.  Perhaps  you  had  better  conclude,  then. 

Mr.  Rodey.  All  right,  sir. 

STATEMENT  OF  HON.  BERNARD  S.  RODEY -Continued. 

Mr.  Rodey.  1  would  like  to  state  that  the  governor's  report,  which 
is  before  the  committee,  shows  the  condition  of  the  Territory  at  the 
date  it  was  made,  and  while  it  is  not  in  as  finely  tal^ulated  a  form  as 
the  Government  sometimes  gets  up  things,  it  is  in  very  good  shape, 
and  contains  a  vast  amount  of  material  for  the  information  of  the 
committee. 

The  Chairman.  You  can  leave  it  with  the  committee.  I  do  not 
think  it  would  be  worth  while  to  include  it  in  your  statement,  as  it  is 
alreadv  printed.  ,      .  ^t     • 

Mr.' Rodey.  We  also  have  a  bureau  of  immigration  in  New  Mexico, 
and  have  had  it  for  several  vears.  That  bureau  publishes  little  pa.m- 
phlets  about  every  county  in  the  Territory,  an  examination  of  which 
will  give  the  committee  some  information,  I  think. 

The  Chairman.  You  may  leave  those  with  the  committee. 

Mr.  Rodey.  It  also  publishes  a  volume  called  Mines  and  Minerals 
of  New  Mexico,  including  all  the  precious  stones,  and  so  on.  I  men- 
tioned this  before  the  recess. 

I  spoke  this  morning  of  the  conditions  in  the  Territory,  and  of  the 
reasons  for  statehood.  I  will  also  state  that  there  are  now  vast  enter- 
prises on  foot,  concerns  about  to  engage  in  legitimate  business  in  New 
Mexico,  from  which  a  reasonable  profit  will  result,  which  are  waiting 
to  see  whether  or  not  they  will  get  the  opportunity  to  issue  their 
bonds  under  a  State  rather  "than  a  territorial  form  of  government. 

The  Chairman.   What  are  those  enterprises? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Railroad  and  timber  companies.  Citizens  in  Michigan 
and  Indiana  have  bought  a  tract  of  timber  of  300,000  acres  about  where 
1  have  my  pencil  on  the  map,  in  western  central  New  Mexico,  south  of 
the  new  Santa  Fe-Pacific  Railroad.  That  land  was  given  as  a  land 
grant  by  Congress  to  the  Atlantic  and  Pacific  Railroad  in  1866.  It  was 
originally  sold  bv  the  railroad  to  Mitchell  Brothers,  of  Cadillac,  Mich. 
Af ferwards  one  of  the  :SIitchell  brothers  acquired  the  interest  of  his 
brother,  and  he  and  others  have  now  organized  a  corporation  of  Michi- 
gan. Indiana,  and  Illinois  capitalists,  with  a  capital  stock  of  ^8,000,000. 
they  are  waiting  to  issue  their  bonds  under  a  State  rather  than  under 
a  Territorial  form  of  government. 

Senator  Dillingham.  What  is  the  name  of  that  corporation? 

Mr.  Rodey.  The  American  Lumber  Company. 

The  Chairman.  They  want  to  issue  bonds  on  this  property,  do  they  ? 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  339 

Ml".  RoDEY.  The}"  want  to  bond  their  own  property. 

The  Chairman.  Certain!}^;  I  understand. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Under  the  auspices  of  the  State  of  New  Mexico. 

The  Chairman.  They  can  issue  bonds  now,  can  they  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  They  can;  but  somehow  or  other,  strange  as  it  may 
seem,  they  hnd  that  there  will  be  several  points  of  difference  in  the 
value  of  tile  stock  if  issued  under  a  Territorial  rather  than  a  State  form 
of  government. 

The  Chairman.  And  they  want  the  Territory  admitted  to  statehood 
so  that  they  Avill  have  the  advantage  in  the  market  that  would  result? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  These  railroads  want  to  have  you  admitted  to  state- 
hood for  the  same  purpose,  do  they? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  To  sell  their  bonds? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir.  The  State  of  Pennsylvania  is  particularly 
interested  in  that  direction.  Thej^  are  now  building  116  miles  of  rail- 
road from  Santa  Fe,  at  about  this  point  on  the  map,  south  across  the 
country,  joining  the  Rock  Island  Railroad  at  a  place  in  Lincoln  County 
called  Torrence. 

The  Chairman.  Who  is  building  that  railroad? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Penns3dvania  capital.  Mr.  W.  H.  Andrews  is  the 
principal  man  in  it,  together  with  Arthur  Kennedy,  of  Pittsburg,  and 
three  or  four  other  Pittsburg  capitalists. 

The  Chairman.  Andrews  is  now  a  resident  of  Arizona,  is  he  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Of  New  Mexico.  Senator  Penrose's  brother  is  a  resi- 
dent of  Arizona. 

The  Chairman.  Senator  Penrose's  brother? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir.  He  owns  the  mine  Mr.  Smith  mentioned 
this  morning.     You  were  not  present  then,  Senator. 

The  Chairman.  No. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  He  mentioned  the  Commonwealth  mine  as  owned  by 
Mr.  Penrose  and  somebody  else. 

The  Chairman.  The  brother  of  Senator  Penrose? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir;  as  I  understand  it. 

The  Chairman.  And  Mr.  Andrews,  now  of  New  Mexico  but  for 
merly  of  Pennsylvania,  is  chiefly  interested  in  the  railroad  business? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  He  is  also  interested  in  a  large  mining  plant  down  at 
Andrews,  in  Sierra  County.  He  has  been  there  four  or  five  years. 
Daring  the  last  two  years  he  has  engaged  in  that  railroad  enterprise, 
with  the  aid  of  other  Pennsylvania  capitalists,  principall}^  Arthur  Ken- 
ned}"  and  a  former  governor  up  there,  and  somebody  else.  Perhaps 
I  do  not  state  it  properly,  but  it  is  certainly  being  done  by  Pennsyl- 
vania capitalists.  They  are  building  116  miles  of  railroad  from  Santa 
Fe  south  to  join  the  new  Rock  Island  road  that  was  built  through  the 
Territory  recently.  Then  they  are  going  to  build  from  Albuquerque 
east  some  50  miles;  so  that  it  will  involve  the  construction  of  some 
200  miles  of  road  at  present 

The  Chairman.  Is  Mr.  Andrews  here? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  He  is  in  Pittsburg. 

The  Chairman.  He  was  here,  was  he  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  He  was  here,  but  left,  and  I  wired  him  to  come  back. 
I  only  received  word  of  this  meeting  last  night. 

The  Chairman.  Yes;  I  know. 


340  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL, 

Mr.  RoDEY.  The  Rock  Island  Railroad,  gentlemen,  has  recently- 
built  from  this  point  where  the  pencil  is  on  the  northeast  line  of  New 
Mexico.  It  came  out  of  Oklahoma  or  Kansas  and  built  six  or  seven 
hundred  miles  of  railroad  right  down  to  El  Paso.  This  new  road  is 
coming  down  here  to  meet  it,  from  Santa  Fe  to  Torrence,  and  then 
another  one  is  coming  across  from  Albuquerque,  here,  through  Tijeras 
Can3'on.  Then  another  road  will  be  built  from  a  point  called  Dawson, 
in  the  northeast  corner  of  the  Territory,  northwest,  cutting  the  Santa 
Fe  Railroad  between  Springer  and  Raton. 

The  Chairman.   Who  is  building  that  line;  the  same  capitalists? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  I  think  the  Rock  Island  people. 

The  Chairman.  These  are  all  projected  lines,  are  they? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  The  Andrews  line  is  not  projected.  They  are  actually 
laying  ties  on  the  whole  length  of  the  line,  and  have  20  miles  of  the 
grade  constructed. 

The  Chairman.  I  see. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  The  other  one,  from  Albuquerque,  is  projected,  aud  the 
one  from  Dawson — how  much  of  that  is  built.  Major? 

Major  Llewellyn.  About  40  miles. 

The  Chairman.  So  that  Andrews  is  now  ready  to  put  out  his  bonds? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  He  will  be  in  a  short  time.  They  have  built  this  road 
with  actual  cash,  as  far  as  they  have  gone,  within  the  last  year  and  a 
half. 

The  Chairman.  I  see.    . 

Mr.  RoDEY.  There  is  a  town  here  called  Santa  Rosa,  on  the  Pecos 
River,  that  has  from  three  to  four  thousand  people  in  it  that  was  not 
on  the  map  two  years  ago.  There  is  another  one,  called  Tvicumcari, 
that  has  two  or  three  thousand  people  in  it  to-day  that  was_  not  on  the 
map  two  years  ago,  and  so  on.  have  helped  establish,  since  I  have 
been  elected,  in  the  117  miles  between  Santa  Rosa,  N.  Mex.,  and  the 
Texas  line  or  Oklahoma,  whichever  it  is,  many  new  post-offices;  and 
you  certainly  have  to  have  two  or  three  hundred  people  in  order  to 
establish  a  post-office. 

The  Chairman.  Where  does  Mr.  Andrews  live? 

Mr.  RoDEY.   He  lives  at  Andrews,  N.  Mex. 

The  Chairman.  About  where  is  that? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  It  is  about  here  [indicating],  in  Sierra  County. 

The  Chairman.  How  long  has  he  been  a  resident  there? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Six  years,  I  think,  maybe  not  so  long. 

Senator  Bate.   He  was  formerly  in  Pennsylvania? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Formerl}^;  yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Before  that? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  And  is  Senator  Penrose's  brother  also  interested 
with  him  in  this  railroad? 

Mr.  Rodey.  I  do  not  think  so. 

The  Chairman.  Simply  in  the  mines? 

Mr.  Rodey.  No;  the  Penrose  mine  is  in  Arizona,  and  not  in  New 
Mexico  at  all. 

The  Chairman.  Oh,  I  see!     Penrose's  mine  is  in  Arizona? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Yes,  sir;  in  fact  I  never  knew  about  Senator  Pen- 
rose's brother  until  within  two  or  three  months.  I  did  not  know  he 
had  a  mine  down  there,  although  I  have  known  the  Commonwealth 
mine  by  reputation  for  several  years.     I  did  not  know  who  owned  it. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    J5ILL.  341 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Rodcy,  I  have  just  run  over  with  the  notes  of 
the  stenographer  what  you  said  this  morning-.  One  of  j^our  last 
remarks  was  something  about  ''carpetbag  government." 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  You  meant  by  that  the  officers  appointed  by  the 
President? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  That  come  in  from  outside;  yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  your  governor  is  a  native? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  The  secretary  of  state  is  a  native? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir.  We  often  succeeded  in  getting  very  nearly 
all  of  them  appointed  from  our  home  people. 

The  Chairman.  Practically  all  of  them  are  native  New  Mexicans, 
are  they  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  There  are  2  judges  that  are  "carpetbaggers." 

The  Chairman.  So  that  the  extent  of  the  "  carpetbag"  in  all  of  your 
officers  is  2  judges? 

Mr.  RoDEY  (to  Major  Llewellyn).  Is  there  anybody  else  at  the  pres- 
ent time? 

Major  Llewellyn.  That  is  all^2  judges. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  We  have  been  very  lucky  this  Administration.  Of 
course  the  5  judges,  the  United  States  attorney,  and  the  clerk  of  the 
Court  of  Private  Land  Claims  are  all  '"'carpetbaggers." 

The  Chairman.  How  many  offices  have  you  altogether? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Oh,  we  have  a  United  States  marshal,  a ■ 

The  Chairman.  Just  give  the  total  number. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  I  will  have  to  count.     We  have  about  twelve  or  fifteen. 

Major  Llewellyn.  There  are  20, 1  think,  with  the  land  officers. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes;  about  twenty  Federal  officers,  with  the  land 
officers. 

The  Chairman.  And  of  those  20  officers,  2  judges  are  outsiders? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  At  the  present  time.  We  have  been  very  lucky 
indeed  this  Administration. 

Senator  Bate.  Some  of  those  other  judges  holding  over  are  out- 
siders, though? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir;  but  they  are  nearly  all  residents  of  many 
j^ears.     We  have  been  very  lucky  with  this  particular  Administration. 

Senator  Bate.  I  mean  when  they  were  appointed  they  were  appointed 
from  elsewhere,  and  not  from  that  place? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  In  a  good  many  cases  it  is  so;  but  not  all  of  them. 
Most  of  the  judges  we  have  now  are  very  old  residents.  We  call  a 
man  who  has  been  a  resident  of  the  Territory  for  fifteen  years  an  old 
resident. 

The  Chairman.  You  count  all  but  those  two  as  practically  New 
Mexicans,  however? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir;  they  are  at  the  present  time. 

The  Chairman.  And  under  their  present  commissions  they  were 
New  Mexicans? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Are  the  two  judges  you  have  there  now  from  the 
outside  competent  judges? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  They  are  very  competent;  they  happen  to  be.  1  have 
seen  judges  sent  to  us  who  were  not,  however. 

The  Chairman.  But  we  are  talking  about  actual  conditions. 


342  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Senator  Bate.  When  were  they  appointed? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  One  of  them,  Judge  Baker,  of  Albuquerque,  was 
appointed  from  Nebraska  last  January.  I  have  not  been  there  since 
he  was  appointed,  but  they  say  he  is  a  very  good  man,  in  fact  one  of 
the  best  judges  we  ever  had.  The  other  is  judge  McMillan,  of  Buffalo, 
N.  Y.,  who  was  appointed  two  ^^ears  ago. 

The  Chairman.  So  that  the  complaint  about  the  "carpetbag  gov- 
ernment," as  a  matter  of  fact,  is  a  complaint  against  a  phrase  rather 
than  a  situation? 

Mr.  RoDET.  At  present,  yes,  sir;  that  is  true.  But  I  have  lived 
twenty-one  years  in  the  Territory-,  and  I  have  seen  a  time  there  when 
over  three-quarters  of  the  officers  were  outsiders. 

The  Chairman.  That  period  is  quite  remote,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Well,  yes;  it  has  been  some  seven  or  eight  or  ten  years 
ago. 

The  Chair^ian.  The  conditions  in  that  respect  are  getting  better  all 
the  time,  are  they  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  They  are. 

The  Chairman.  The  tendency  is  to  constantl}^  appoint  men  from  the 
Territories  themselves  if  possible,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  The  tendency  is  in  that  direction,  because  we  fight  very 
hard  for  it. 

The  Chairman.  Whatever  the  cause  may  be,  that  is  the  result? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  That  is  the  result;  yes,  sir. 

Senator  Bate.  Have  any  other  judges  been  appointed  by  this  Admin- 
istration except  the  two  of  whom  you  speak? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  No,  sir;  only  one  of  those,  in  fact,  was  appointed 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  mean  the  Roosevelt  Administration  ? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  One  was  appointed  by  the  McKinley  Administration^ 
that  is,  Judge  McMillan.  Judge  McMillan  is  present  in  town,  I  have 
heard. 

The  Chair^sian.  By  the  way,  just  another  question.  (I  do  not  want 
to  take  up  much  time,  but  everyone  ought  to  ask  the  questions  that 
come  to  his  mind.)  1  just  caught  the  fact  that  3^ou  had  questioned  the 
census.  Of  course  I  have  not  examined  into  that  matter,  and  do  not 
know"  whether  the  Senators  have  or  not.  The  census  enumerators  who 
Avere  appointed  in  New  Mexico,  as  was  the  case  everywhere,  were 
local  men,  were  they  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  You,  as  Delegate,  had  something  to  do  with  the 
recommendation  of  those  enumerators,  had  you  not^ 

Mr.  RoDEY.  No,  sir;  it  was  just  before  1  was  elected. 

The  Chairman.  By  whom  were  the}^  recommended  ? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  I  never  did  quite  know  how  that  census  matter  was 
brought  about.  There  was  a  fight  over  the  directorship,  and  a  man 
up  in  Taos  Count}"  got  it. 

The  Chairman.  The  director  was  a  native  of  New  Mexico? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir;  Pedro  Sanchez;  and  I  will  have  to  confess 
that  he  did  not  make  a  very  good  record.  He  could  not  as  the  law 
stood. 

The  Chairman.  Were  the  enumerators  that  he  appointed  New 
Mexicans? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  In  a  great  many  instances. 

The  Chairman.  Local  people,  I  mean. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  343 

Mr.  RoDEY,  Thoy  were  all  local  people;  Init  I  will  have  to  make  an 
explanation  about  that. 

The  CiiAiRiMAN.  So  that  the  census  was  taken  by  Pedro  Sanchez,  a 
native  New  Mexican,  and  under  him  by  enumerators  who  were  local 
people  ? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes.  It  was  taken  so  poorly  that  many  suits  have 
resulted  over  it  on  the  part  of  the  Government. 

The  Chaiidiax.  That  simply  means  that  the  people  wdio  took  the 
census  were  not  competent  to  take  it,  does  it?     Is  that  what  you  mean? 

Mr,  KoDEY.  No,  sir;  that  does  not  follow.  It  was  largely  so.  The 
census  is  a  prett}^  hard  thing  to  take. 

The  Chairman.  Did  they  have  a  purpose  in  reducing  it  below  what 
it  actually  was  ? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  No,  sir.  It  occurred  in  this  way.  Senator:  Out  there 
the}^  paid,  I  believe,  3  cents  per  capita  in  cit}^  w^ards.  It  was  easy  to 
take  them  there,  and  they  took  them  moderately  well,  though  they 
missed  a  good  many  there.  The  census  in  the  cities  was  not  very 
badly  taken.  But  out  in  the  country,  where  they  did  not  get  any  per 
capita  at  all  for  taking  them,  but  only  got  a  per  diem,  they  would 
have  to  pay  a  little  more  for  a  team  to  go  around  the  country  from 
hamlet  to  hamlet — fifty,  seventy-five,  and  a  hundred  miles  overland — 
in  order  to  get  them.  Therefore,  as  Delegate  Smith  well  said  this 
morning,  rather  than  commit  perjury  by  putting  doAvn  false  names, 
they  just  put  down  those  they  reall}^  knew  and  did  not  put  down  the 
newcomers  at  all. 

As  a  consequence,  on  page  10  of  the  governor's  report,  if  the  chair- 
man will  take  it,  he  will  see  that  the  governor  says  that  half  the  coun- 
ties of  New  Mexico  did  not  show  any  increase  at  all,  when  there  were 
towns  of  two  or  three  thousand  people  in  them  that  were  not  on  the 
map  at  the  time  of  the  former  census.  The  governor  calculates  that 
there  are  297,000  people  in  the  Territory,  I  think,  on  page  10,  judging- 
from  the  number  of  voters  registered. 

The  Chairman.  Yes;  I  see  that. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  We  registered  fifty-nine  thousand  two  hundred  and 
odd  voters.  Everybody  who  knows  New  Mexico  at  all  knows  that 
the  ratio  of  5  to  1  is  truer  there  than  in  any  other  part  of  the 
United  States.  The  natives,  who  form  two-fifths  of  the  population, 
have  large  families.  In  my  residence  there  of  twenty-one  years  I 
have  known  them  intimately,  and  there  is  hardly  a  family  that  has 
not  5  in  it,  and  they  run  from  that  up  to  12  and  15. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Rodey,  do  you  not  think  that  this  is  true— this 
Pedro  Sanchez  has  a  local  pride  in  his  Territory,  has  he  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  He  probably  has,  in  a  general  way;  but  I  do  not  think 
so,  judging  from  the  result — that  it  afl'ected  the  swelling  of  our 
census. 

The  Chairman.  The  enumerators  usually  do  in  their  various  locali- 
ties, do  they  not? 

Mr.  Rodey.  1  do  not  think  they  look  at  it  in  that  light. 

The  Chairman.  Is  it  not  the  universal  tendency,  Mr,  Rodey,  in 
taking  a  census  that  the  local  people,  on  account  of  their  pride,  make 
it  as  large  as  the  truth  will  permit  rather  than  the  reverse?  That  is 
the  common  experience  with  all  of  them,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  Rodey.  You  are  right,  sir;  that  is  the  truth.  But  I  want  to 
make  this  exception  to  it.     I  find  that  with  us  it  results  about  the  same 


844  NEW  statp:hood  bill. 

as  an  eloction.  Every  man  likes  to  see  his  party  win  at  an  election, 
yet  he  will  not  ^o  out  and  hustle  for  it.  We  would  like  to  have  the 
census  show  well,  but  none  of  us  took  any  interest  in  having  it  make 
such  a  showing. 

The  Chaikman.  The  reason  I  ask  the  question  is  because  you  have 
made  an  explanation  here  of  why  the  census  is  small;  the  explanation 
being  that  they  would  put  down  people  they  could  conveniently  see 
and  nobody  else,  and,  being  familiar  with  the  country,  while  the}'  would 
not,  as  you  say,  find  it  convenient  to  go  a  distance  to  see  a  family, 
they  would  know  about  that  family  being  there. 

Do  3"0u  not  think,  Mr.  Rodey,  that  the  common  experience  of  the 
whole  country  in  taking  censuses  is  that  they  were  more  likely  to  have 
put  down  the  total  of  their  knowledge  than  the  total  they  saw?  If  they 
did  not  perform  the  oath  of  office  and  take  them  all,  that  the  tendency' 
was  to  state  the  fullest  of  their  information  and  belief  rather  than  the 
reverse  ? 

Mr.  Rodey.  1  would  say  that  was  true  if  I  did  not  know  of  our  own 
instance.  That  was  my  impression  before  I  saw  these  things.  When 
I  see  Colonel  Chavers,  our  superintendent  of  education,  sending  me  a 
few  weeks  ago  the  school  census,  showing  nearlv  70,000  children; 
when  I  see  the  registration  returns  of  60.000  in  Ihe  Territory,  and 
that  two  years  ago  at  my  election;  when  I  know  that  in  our  large  area 
we  can  not  register  to  save  our  lives  more  than  three-fourths  of  the 
real  voters  we  have,  and  when  1  know  that  the  five-to-one  rule  as  to 
population  compared  with  voters  is  absolutely  true  in  New  Mexico, 
because  I  know  the  Territory  pretty  well,  then  I  know  that  as  to  New 
Mexico  the  census  was  not  taken  properly. 

The  Chairman.  By  the  way,  speaking  about  schools,  what  is  the 
language  taught  in  your  schools? 

Mr.  KoDEY.  The'^  language  taught  in  the  schools  is  universally 
English.  In  some  of  the  remote  parts  of  the  Territor}^  the}^  may  per- 
haps also  teach  Spanish.  In  some  of  the  denominational  schools 
there — we  have  several  of  them — they  also  teach  Spanish,  I  think. 

The  Chair3ian.  To  what  extent  is  Spanish  spoken? 

Mr.  Rodey.  In  remote  parts  to  cpiite  an  extent  among  the  natives. 

The  Chairman.  Is  the  Spanish  language  taught  at  all  in  the  public 
schools  there? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Not  as  of  course.  The  English  language  is  taught  as 
of  course  in  every  one  of  them. 

The  Chairman.  In  the  public  schools,  then,  as  I  understand  you  to 
sa}',  the  Spanish  language  is  not  taught? 

Mr.  Rodey.  It  is  not  taught,  except  with  the  volition  of  the  people 
there,  that  I  know  of. 

The  Chairman.  It  is,  however,  taught  in  the  public  schools,  is  it,  if 
the  people  ask  it  to  be  taught  ? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Well,  now 

The  Chairman.  Is  that  what  you  mean  by  "volition?" 

Mr.  Rodey.  I  really  believe  it  is,  but  I  can  not  cite  a  single  instance 
where  I  know  that  it  is  taught.  I  do  know,  however,  that  out  in  the 
country,  where  the  teacher  speaks  each  language  equally  fluent,  and 
when  the  mother  tongue  of  the  people  is  Spanish,  even  though  the 
rising  generation  all  speak  English,  they  teach  it  somewhat. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  practice  law  in  the  Federal  courts  there? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Yes,  sir. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  3-15 

The  Chairman.  Did  you  ever  try  a  case  down  there  throuoh  um 
interpreter. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Oh,  I  have  tried  hundreds  of  them  where  that  was  done, 
as  to  witnesses  and  the  jury. 

The  Chairman.  Is  not  that  usually  the  case''^ 

Mr.  lioDHY.  1  tljink  in  three  or  four  counties  of  the  Territory  it  is. 

The  Chairman.  Is  it  true  in  three  or  four  counties  of  the  Territory  ? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Let  me  count  them.  In  Taos,  Rio  Arriba,  Santa  Fe 
once  in  a  while,  though  not  always,  Bernalillo,  and  Valencia — tive. 

The  Chairman.  Did  you  ever  trj'^  a  case,  Mr.  Rodey,  where  the 
address  to  the  jury  and  the  testimony  to  the  jury  had  to  be  given 
through  an  interpreter? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Many  a  time. 

The  Chairman.  The  jury  all  being  Spanish? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  And  it  not  being  possible  for  them  to  speak  English? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Oh,  many  of  them  often  speak  English. 

The  Chairman.  But  all  did  not? 

Mr.  Rodey.  But  some  one  or  two  did  not. 

The  Chairman.  Therefore  you  had  to  have  an  interpreter. 

Mr.  Rodey.  Yes,  sir. 

Now,  I  want  to  explain  that.  That  occurs  for  this  reason:  Ameri- 
cans, at  the  pay  that  jurors  get  (I  say  "Americans"  simply  to  distin- 
guish them  from  the  natives),  will  refuse  to  serve  on  a  jury  every 
chance  they  get.  When  we  had  a  property  qualification  for  jurors  the 
mechanics  and  laboring  men  and  that  intelligent  class  of  people  would 
put  their  property  in  their  wives'  names  on  purpose  to  get  rid  of  jury 
duty.  The  native  there,  on  the  other  hand,  rather  likes  juiy  duty. 
He  is  called  in  between  seasons — they  are  pastoral  people,  you  know — 
between  lambing  and  wool  seasons  and  that  sort  of  thing.  They  have 
not  very  much  to  do,  and  they  are  glad  to  be  called  in  to  sit  on  a  juiy. 
They  make  the  fairest  jurors  I  ever  tried  a  case  before. 

The  Chairman.  1  am  not  talking  about  their  fairness;  I  do  not 
impeach  that. 

Mr.  Rodey.  Say  a  jury  is  called.  Perhaps  there  will  be  two  or 
three  men  on  that  jury  who  speak  Spanish  only — men  selected  from  a 
remote  part  of  the  country,  under  the  law.  You  see  "a  juiy  of  the 
vicinage"  always  means  of  the  district,  and  sometimes  they  take  men 
a  hundred  miles  away  and  bring  them  in. 

Americans,  on  the  other  hand,  will  get  themselves  excused  through 
doctors'  certificates,  on  account  of  business,  and  this  and  that;  and  it 
will  finally  wind  up  by  others  being  called,  and  all  the  Americans  being 
disqualified  in  one  way  or  another,  and  you  will  find  that  you  have  a 
juiy  that  is  half  Spanish  and  do  not  all  understand  English,  and  3'ou 
will  have  to  have  an  interpreter. 

Down  in  Grant  County  there  has  not  been  a  Mexican  juiy,  so  called, 
in  the  memory  of  the  present  generation.  Drawing  a  pencil  this  way 
over  New  Mexico,  leaving  out  Donna  Ana  County  there,  with  the  excep- 
tion of  two  small  towns  there  are  not  50  Mexicans  in  that  section  of 
the  country.  Luna  County,  here,  has  not  50  "Mexicans,"  so  called, 
in  it. 

The  Chairman.  Where  are  the  Spanish-speaking  counties  ? 

Mr.  Rodey.  They  are  Rio  Arriba,  Taos,  San  Miguel,  Bernalillo, 
Socorro,  and  Donna  Ana. 

The  Chairman.  San  Miguel  has  22,053  people? 


34G  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Rio  Arriba,  13,777;  Socorro,  12,195;  and  what  is 
the  other  one? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  I  guess  you  have  them  all. 

The  Chaikman.  What  about  Bernalillo? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  That  is,  about  three-lifths  American  and  two-fifths 
Mexicans,  so  called.  But  recollect,  those  Mexicans,  so  called,  do  not 
all  speak  Spanish  alone.  A  laro'e  per  cent  of  them  speak  English  also. 
There  are  any  number  of  men  w^ho  speak  either  language  equally 
fluently.     The  rising  generation  all  do  it. 

The  Chairman.  How  many  school-teachers  are  there  in  the  Terri- 
tory? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  There  are  900  or  1,000  school-teachers  in  New  Mexico 
now. 

The  Chairman.  Are  they  native  school-teachers? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  The3^  are  all  Americans. 

The  Chairman.  I  mean  to  say,  are  they  ntitive  New  Mexicans? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Largely  so. 

The  Chairman.  Or  are  they  imported? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  No.  The  "  oiae  lungers,"  as  we  call  them — the  people 
who  come  down  there  for  tuberculosis — came  down  there  and  displaced 
our  own  teachers,  doing  work  at  much  less  salaries;  and  we  finally 
passed  a  statute  preventing  teachers  of  that  kind  from  endangering  the 
health  of  the  children.  Now  only  people  who  have  passed  a  physical 
examination  and  are  certified  to  be  free  from  disease  can  secure  the 
positions. 

The  Chairman.  Going  back  just  a  moment  (and  then  I  am  through), 
will  vou  name  the  officers  down  there  at  present? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  The  present  officers? 

The  Chairman.  Yes;  give  their  names,  so  far  as  you  can,  from  the 
governor  down. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  They  are  Miguel  Antonio  Otero,  governor;  William  J. 
Mills,  chief  justice;  John  R.  McFie,  associate  justice;  Daniel  McMillan, 
associate  justice ;  Benjamin  S.  Baker,  associate  justice ;  Frank  W. 
Parker,  associate  justice.  That  is  the  judiciary.  Creighton  M.  Fora- 
ker  (the  Senator's  brother)  is  United  States  marshal.  He  has  been  a 
resident  of  New  Mexico  for  twenty-one  years.  The  United  States 
attorney  is  William  B.  Childers.  The  secretary  of  the  Territorv  is 
J.  W.  Reynolds. 

Senator  Bate.  Where  is  Childers  from? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  He  is  from  Pulaski,  Tenn.  The  surveyor-general  is 
Morgan  O.  Llewellyn,  the  major's  son  [indicating  Major  Llewellyn, 
present]. 

In  the  land  office  for  the  Santa  Fe  district,  M.  R.  Otaro  is  register 
and  Frederick  Mueller  is  receiver.  In  the  Clayton  district  Mr.  Fox 
is  register.     Who  is  the  receiver  over  there.  Major? 

jMajor  Llewellyn.  I  have  forgotten  his  name. 

The  Chairman.  If  you  do  not  remember  never  mind;  I  do  not  care 
about  them,  anyhow. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  At  Roswell,  Howard  Leland  is  the  register  and  Mr. 
Guyer  is  receiver.  At  Las  Cruces  it  is  Nicholas  Galles  and  Henry  D. 
Bowman.     Those  are  the  land  officers. 

The  collector  of  internal  revenue  is  A.  L.  Morrison,  of  Santa  Fe. 
Who  else  is  there? 

Major  Llewellyn.  There  is  the  attorney  for  the  Pueblo  Indians. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


347 


Mr.  RoDEY.  He  is  a  man  who  has  been  appointed  recently.  What 
other  Federal  officers  have  we?     That  is  about  all,  is  it  not? 

Major  Llewellyn.  That  is  all. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Then  we  have  a  solicitor-general  and  a  whole  lot  of 
local  officials,  sherilTs,  and  so  on,  all  the  way  down  throug-h  every 
county. 

The  Chairman.  Oh,  certainly. 

Senator  Bate.  These  people  who  speak  the  Spanish  language  are 
not  foreigners;  they  are  natives,  are  they  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  They  are  natives,  sir;  and  they  are  as  good  citizens  as 
you  can  find  in  the  United  States  of  America.  They  will  have  been 
under  our  flag  fifty-six  years  the  18th  day  of  next  August.  They  have 
been  slandered  throughout  the  country  through  people  calling  them 
'^greasers,"  and  that  sort  of  thing.  They  are  so  far  above  the  class 
of  Mexicans  that  come  up  from  Old  Mexico  and  come  into  our  south- 
ern border  that  there  is  no  comparison  between  them.  As  far  as  most 
of  those  people  are  concerned,  if  you  go  out  in  the  country  you  will 
find  a  patriarchal  old  fellow  with  a  family  of  twelve  or  fifteen  children 
all  around  him,  some  of  them  married  and  having  grandchildren;  and 
they  are  the  nicest  kind  of  people,  hospitable,  minding  their  business, 
never  doing  a  wrong  or  being  in  trouble  unless  somebody  gets  them 
into  trouble.  We  have  a  saying  there  that  the  new  comers  taught 
them  almost  all  the  evil  they  know.  They  are  first-class  citizens.  The 
older  generation  do  not  speak  so  much  English,  the  present  genera- 
tion speak  it  well. 

The  Chairman.  How  many  members  are  there  in  your  legislature? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Thirty-six. 

The  Chairman.  Does  that  include  both  the  senate  and  house? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes;  there  are  24  in  the  house  and  V2  in  the  senate. 

Speaking  about  schools,  take  my  own  city  of  Albuquerque.  It  has 
five  magnificent  brick  schoolhouses,  costing  as  much  as  $30,000  or 
$40,000  each.  It  has  the  University  of  New  Mexico,  Hadley  Science 
Hall,  the  Brothers'  School,  the  Sisters'  School,  the  Methodist  College, 
and  half  a  dozen  other  institutions  of  learning,  all  in  that  one  town, 
besides  a  church  of  every  denomination  in  America,  including  a  Jewish 
synagogue.  "  ,     .      . 

Take  Las  Vegas.  It  has  three  magnificent  schoolhouses,  including 
a  large  normal  university.  If  you  will  look  at  some  of  these  pamphlets 
you  will  see  cuts  and  photographs  of  them. 

In  the  city  of  Albuquerque,  where  I  live,  we  have  what  is  called  the 
Commercial  Club,  built  for  commercial  and  social  purposes,  which  cost 
1150,000.  It  is  built  out  of  brownstone,  and  is  as  fine  a  one  as  there 
is  between  Chicago  and  Los  Angeles. 

We  have  a  new  depot  at  that  town  that  is  really  a  third  of  a  mile 
long,  one  of  the  most  magnificent  structures  of  the  kind  in  America. 
Senator  Bard,  when  he  goes  home,  will  see  it  on  his  way. 

Senator  Bard.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  Have  you  here  a  list  of  the  members  of  the  legis- 
lature ? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir.     It  is  on  page  144  of  this  book.  _ 

The  Chairman.  That  is  all  right;  I  simply  want  to  see  it. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  You  will  al»o  find  it  on  page  8  of  this  book.  The  only 
objection  that  can  be  made  to  them  by  people  on  the  other  side  of 
politics  is  that  they  are  nearly  all  Republicans. 


348  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

The  CiTAiEMAN.  I  have  no  further  questions. 

Senator  Bate.  That  will  do,  then,  unless  you  ha ,  c  something  further 
to  say, 

Mr.  RoDEY.  I  have  nothing  further.  I  will  ask  leave  of  the  chair- 
man of  the  committee  to  correct  my  remarks,  so  as  to  make  them 
coherent. 

The  statement  prepared  by  Mr.  Rodey  and  referred  to  during  the 
course  of  his  remarks  is  as  follows: 

"The  assessed  valuation  of  the  property  in  the  Territory  for  last  year 
was  $38,227,878.  There  seems  to  be  no  question,  from  the  hearings 
and  the  governor's  report,  that  the  actual  value  of  the  property  is  at 
least  $150,000,000.  The  census  of  1890  showed  an  estimate  of  prop- 
erty values  in  the  Territory  of  $231,459,897,  and  all  agree  that  the 
property  interests  of  the  Territory  are  more  valuable  now  than  they 
were  at  that  time.  The  evidence  presented  before  this  committee, 
roughly  tabulated,  shows  the  present  property  of  the  Territory  that 
will  be  subjected  to  taxation  when  it  is  admitted  as  a  State  as  follows: 

7,000,000  acres  of  railroad  land,  with  its  coal,  iron,  and  timber,  at  $5  ..  $35,  000,  000 
7,000,  000  acres  of  private  patented  land  grants,  with  its  timber  and,  in 

some  instances,  its  minerals,  at  $5 35,  000,  000 

2,000,000  acres  agricultural  land,  at  $10 20, 000, 000 

3,000  miles  of  railroad,  with  its  franchises,  equipment,  machinerj',  shops, 

etc.,  at  $20,000 60,000,000 

Patented  mines  and  plants 25, 000, 000 

7,000,000  sheep  and  goats,  at  §2 14,  000,  000 

21,000,000  pounds  of  wool,  at  8  cents ' 1,  6<S0,  000 

1,700,000  head  of  cattle,  at  $20 34,000,000 

60,000  head  of  horses,  at  $10 500, 000 

100.000  head  of  burros,  at  $2 200,  000 

Citv  lots  and  buildings 25,  000, 000 

Stocks  of  goods 12,500,000 

Household  furniture  of  all  kinds 4, 120, 000 

Jewelry 2,000,000 

Cash,  bonds,  stocks,  mortgages,  etc 5,  500,  000 

Produce  of  mines,  coal,  iron,  gold,  silver,  copper,  lead,  etc 5, 000,  000 

Produce  of  farms,  alfalfa,  wheat,  and  other  crops 2,  500, 000 

All  other  kinds  of  property 1, 000,  000 

Total 283,000,000 

EESOUECES. 

'■'•Nein  Mexico  fcmns. — A  Washington  dispatch  of  May  14,  says: 

'"The  census  report  on  agriculture  in  New  Mexico  shows  that  the 
12,311  farms  enumerated  therein  in  1900  had  a  value  of  $20,880,814, 
of  which  17  per  cent  represents  the  buildings. 

'"The  value  of  farm  implements  and  machinery  was  $1,151,610 
and  live  stock  $31,727,400,  making  the  total  value  of  farm  property 
$53,767,824.  The  total  value  of  farm  products  in  1899  was  $10,155,215, 
of  which  70  per  cent  consisted  of  animal  products.  The  gross  income 
for  that  year  was  $9,117,765.' 

"It  follows  as  surely  as  does  the  night  the  day  that  with  all  this 
property  returned  for  taxation,  or  even  with  one-half  of  it  returned, 
we  will  be  the  lowest-taxed  sovereign  State  that  ever  entered  the 
Union.  A  levy  of  1  per  cent  upon  $283,000,000  worth  of  property 
would  raise  $2,830,000,  or  more  than  twice  what  we  raise  now  for  all 
purposes— municipal,  county,  schools,  Territorial  institutions.  Terri- 
torial expenses,  fixed  charges,  sinking  funds,  interest  on  bonds— all 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  349 

put  together.  Then  who  can  say  that  we  will  not  be  the  lowest-taxed 
State  in  the  Union?  If  we  limit  salaries  and  expenses  in  our  new  con- 
stitution as  we  should,  we  could  actually  do  with  a  levy  of  a  half  of  1 
per  cent.  With  a  tax  rate  like  that  who  will  say  that  immigration 
and  capital  will  not  flow  into  the  new  State  in  an  increased  volume? 
It  goes  without  t-aying.  We  have  lots  of  resources;  we  will  yet  vie 
with  all  other  jurisdictions  in  the  amount  of  coal,  copper,  and  other 
minerals  we  produce.  We  will  soon  closely  push  the  Oregoiis  and 
Washingtons  in  our  lumber  product.  We  beat  the  world  now  in  our 
sheep  raising  and  wool  growing,  and  we  press  Texas  and  Montana 
closelv  in  the  number  of  cattle  we  raise. 

"The  corporations  alone  of  the  Territory  are  capitalized  at  $89, 735,- 
925. 

"The  indebtedness  of  New  Mexico  at  the  close  of  the  last  fiscal  year 
was  $1,205,100,  and  the  cash  on  hand  to  meet  outstanding  obligations 
was  1246, 204.96.  So  that  to  pay  every  debt  it  must  expend  $958,825.04. 
Last  year,  according  to  the  report  of  the  governor  of  the  Territory, 
all  current  obligations  were  met,  including  interest,  and  $89,437  was 
paid  on  the  principal  of  the  bonded  debt.  If  his  report  can  be  relied 
on — and  we  know  of  no  reason  why  it  should  not^ — the  financial  con- 
dition of  the  Territory  is  good  and  presents  an  encouraging  situation. 

"And  this  is  all  the  more  creditable  when  it  is  considered  that  not 
only  has  the  Territory  been  self-sustaining,  but  in  addition  has  built  all 
of  the  Territorial  institutions  and  instituted  its  splendid  school  system 
without  one  dollar  of  aid  from  Congress  save  that  which  is  common  to 
all  Territories — the  payment  of  its  legislature  and  j  udiciary .  However, 
as  the  revenue  laws  extend  over  the  Territory  the  same  as  anywhere  else, 
and  the  receipts  are  all  turned  into  the  National  Treasury,  it  perhaps 
is  true  that  the  Territory  has  never  been  a  burden  upon  the  nation. 

"The  Territory  has  an  attractive  capitol  building,  which  cost  |^i00,000. 
Its  penitentiary  "is  valued  at  $500,000.  Its  college  of  agriculture  and 
mechanical  arts  is  estimated  at  $100,000.  Its  asylum  for  the  insane 
cost  $80,000.  Its  school  of  mines  is  an  investment  of  $65,000.  Its 
university  made  an  outlay  of  $60,000.  Its  normal  school  represents 
$60,000  of  capital.  Its  military  institute  cost  over  $50,000.  Other 
public  institutions  which  are  now  in  operation  have  secured  appropria- 
tions for  over  $60,000. 

"The  educational  system  of  the  Territory,  based  upon  the  public 
schools,  is  creditable  indeed. 

"I  further  desire  to  state  to  the  committee  that,  apart  from  the  known 
inadequacy  of  a  Territorial  form  of  government,  I  have  had  the  matter 
forcibly  brought  to  my  mind  during  the  present  session  of  Congress. 
More  than  one-half  of  my  time  has  been  taken  up  in  defending  the 
Territory  against  attack.  The  enemies  of  the  Territory,  persons  desir- 
ing to  get  advantages  against  it,  work  through  members  of  Congress 
and  endeavor  to  secure  legislation  which  we  in  the  Territory  believe 
is  to  our  disadvantage.  I  have  had  to  spend  a  good  one-half  of  my 
time  fighting  such  measures  before  committees  of  the  House  and 
before  the  departments.  A  State  has  several  representatives  in  Con- 
gress to  represent  it,  while  a  Territory  has  but  a  voteless  Delegate  to 
secure  needed  legislation  for  it  or  to  fight  its  battles  and  prevent  inju 
rious  legislation.  While  a  Delegate  is  ofl'  the  floor  for  a  moment  he 
may  lose  a  chance  to  pass  or  defeat  a  bill. 

''  Every  Senator  and  Member  of  Congress  feels  such  an  interest  in  a. 


t^50  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

new  and  strange  possession  like  Porto  Rico  and  the  Philippines  as  that 
he  cari^fuUy  watches  all  leoishition  attectincv  the  same,  but  as  to  the 
older  Territories  here  on  the  continent,  because  the}^  have  a  Delegate 
little  or  no  attention  is  paid  to  them,  and  not  only  is  all  sorts  of  legis- 
lation permitted  against  them,  but  much  legislation  inimical  to  their 
interests  is  sought  to  be  enacted,  and  often  is  enacted,  through  the 
efforts  of  members  of  Congress  having  no  local  interest  in  the  Terri- 
tories, and  often  members  of  Congress  prevent  needed  legislation  for 
the  Territories.  This  present  Congress  I  had  to  light  the  land-leasing 
law,  which  our  people  believe  is  not  to  our  interest;  the  great  Beales 
land  grant,  which  is  an  unmitigated  fraud,  and  the  efforts  of  the  Repub- 
lic of  Mexico  and  other  interested  parties  to  deprive  us  of  the  use  of 
the  waters  of  our  streams.  I  also  have  to  continuously  watch  the 
efforts  of  large  land  owners  before  the  Department  of  the  Interior  as 
to  land  exchanges  and  the  creation  of  forest  reserves,  the  contirmation 
of  land  grants,  etc.,  and  many  other  things,  so  that  a  great  Territory 
like  Kew  Mexico  can  not,  in  the  nature  of  things,  be  properly  repre- 
sented or  adequately  represented  in  Congress  by  its  single  mere  vote- 
less Delegate,  and  it  ought  to  be  a  State." 

STATEMENT  OF  W.  H.  H.  LLEWELLYN,  OE  LAS  CHUCES,  N.  MEX. 

The  Chairman.  Before  you  begin  your  statement,  will  you  please 
state,  merely  for  the  purposes  of  the  record,  your  name,  your  age, 
where  j^ou  live,  and  the  usual  facts  of  that  kind. 

Major  Llewellyn.  My  name  is  W.  H.  H.  Llewellyn.  1  live  at  Las 
Cruces,  in  Donna  Ana  County,  N.  Mex.,  one  of  the  southern  counties. 
Mv  age  is  50  years,  or  will  be  the  9th  of  next  September.^  1  have 
lived  in  New  Mexico  twenty-one  years.  I  have  raised  a  family  down 
there.  I  have  six  boys  and  three' daughters.  My  present  occupation 
is  district  attorney  for  the  live  southern  counties— Grant,  Luna,  Donna 
Ana,  Sierra,  and"  Otero.  Just  two  weeks  ago  to-day  we  finished  up 
the  spring  terms  of  court  there.     We  ended  up  at  Luna. 

Senator  Kean.  You  are  appointed  by  the  President,  are  you? 

Mr.  Llewellyn.  No,  sir;  I  am  appointed  by  the  governor  and  con- 
firmed bv  the  Territorial  council. 

Now,  gentlemen,  I  will  not  undertake  to  make  any  lengthy  argu- 
ment or  statement  here  to-day.  I  am  very  glad,  indeed,  of  this  oppor- 
tunitv  to  sa}^  a  few  words. 

From  my  observation  and  from  my  trips  east,  the  objection  that  is 
Tcry  frequentlv  made  to  the  admission  of  New  Mexico  as  one  of  the 
States  of  the  Union  is  that  the  people  fear  they  may  admit  what  is 
termed  a  "rotten  borough,"  usually  referring  to  the  State  of  Nevada. 

Gentlemen  of  the  committee,  here  is  the  condition  existing  in  New 
Mexico  with  reference  to  what  we  may  expect  as  a  permanent  popu- 
lation. It  has  been  estimated  by  Major  Powell,  who  was  formerly 
the  Director  of  the  Geological  Survey,  as  well  as  by  other  competent 
Government  ensfineers,  that  the  valley  of  the  Rio  Grande,  from 
Espanola,  in  Santa  Fe  County,  down  to  the  Texas  State  line,  will 
alone  support  and  maintain  a  population  of  a  million  people  depending 
solelv  and  entirelv  upon  the  pursuits  of  agriculture  for  their  living. 

I  made  that  statement  the  other  day  over  in  New  York  to  a  gentle- 
man with  whom  I  was  talking.  He  said  to  me:  "What  is  the  popula- 
tion of  the  Rio  Grande  now?"  I  said:  "  \Vell,  I  can  not  tell  you 
exactly  what  the  population  of  the  Rio  Grande  is  now,  but  I  can  tell 


NEW    STATEHOOD    IITLL.  351 

you  that  it  is  less  than  it  was  ten  years  ao^o  in  many  places  in  the  ao:ri 
cultural  sections."     He  said:  "If  you  can  do  those  things,  and  that 
valley  will  contain  a  population  of  a  million,  why  in  the  name  of  high 
heaven  do  you  not  get  them  there?" 

I  say  to  you,  gentlemen,  that  one  reason  we  do  not  get  them  there 
is  that  we  are  unfortunately  a  Territory.  We  are  stopped  by  these 
United  States  from  constructing  reservoirs  on  the  Kio  Grande;  and 
what  is  known  as  the  Stevens  bill  in  the  House  hangs  over  us  like  a 
black  cloud,  threatening  destruction  to  every  industry  we  have  in  the 
great  valley  of  the  Rio  Grande,  one  of  the  most  fertile  valleys  in  the 
world. 

The  Chaikman.  Does  that  valley  need  irrigation? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir;  we  depend  entirely  upon  irrigation. 

The  Chairman.  What  will  be  the  etfect,  Major  Llewellyn,  of  this 
nev/  irrigation  law  that  has  gone  into  operation? 

Major  Llew^ellyn.  We  think  it  is  going  to  be  very  beneficial. 

The  Chairman.  Very  beneficial? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  You  think  it  will  bring  more  people  there  when  it 
is  in  operation? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Oh,  undoubtedly;  undoubtedly  it  will  bring 
more  people  there. 

To  get  back  to  this  proposition  of  the  Rio  Grande  Valley  with  a 
population  of  a  million  people,  it  was  proposed  a  year  ago  to  build  a 
dam  at  a  place  called  Elephant  Buttes,  on  the  Rio  Grande.  A  company 
was  incorporated  for  that  purpose.  I  am  not  here  to  defend  that  com- 
pany; in  fact,  1  should  prefer  that  they  did  not  build  the  dam.  But 
they  were  stopped  by  the  Government  of  the  United  States  from 
attempting  to  build  it;  and  there  are  bills  pending  in  Congress  now  to 
prevent  the  people  of  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico  from  impounding 
he  water  of  the  Rio  Grande  or  from  even  digging  a  new  canal  in  the. 
valley  of  the  Rio  Grande  or  any  of  its  tributaries. 

Senator  Kean.  What  is  the  reason  for  that? 

Major  Llewellyn.  The  reason  is  that  at  El  Paso,  Tex.,  just  below 
the  southern  line  of  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico,  there  is  a  project 
on  foot  to  build  what  is  known  as  an  international  dam.  That  propo- 
sition seems  to  have  been  favorably  entertained  by  Congress  two  ses- 
sions before  the  present  one.  Senator  Davis  was  at  that  time  chair- 
man of  the  Committee  on  Foreign  Relations.  When  we  went  before 
him  we  presented  this  proposition  to  him,  that  they  not  only  proposed 
to  prevent  us  from  building  a  dam  or  impounding  the  waters  of  the 
Rio  Grande,  or  making  a  new  irrigation  ditch  on  the  main  part  of  the 
Rio  Grande  or  any  of  the  tributsvvies  of  the  Rio  Grande,  but  they  actu- 
ally proposed,  under  the  provisions  of  that  bill,  to  cede  that  part  of 
our  country  to  the  Republic  of  Mexico;  and  here  we  are  powerless, 
from  the  fact  that  we  are  only  a  Territory.  They  do  not  attempt  such 
legislation  in  Colorado. 

The  Chairman.  You  say  there  is  a  proposition  now  pending  to  cede 
a  portion  of  your  Territory  to  Mexico  ? 

Major  Llewellyn.  That  is  in  the  bill  yet,  unless  it  has  been  eHmi- 
iiated. 

Mr.  Rodey.  It  is  still  in  the  bill. 

Major  Llewellyn.  It  is  still  in  the  bill,  I  understand. 

Senator  Bate   That  is  a  proposition  to  do  what? 


352  NEW    STATEHOOD    EILL. 

]Major  Llewellyn.  To  cede  a  portion  of  United  States  territory  to 
the  Republic  of  Mexico. 

The  Chaikman.  Are  you  sure  of  that? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir;  yes,  sir.  I  am  right  about  that,  am  I 
not,  Mr.  RoDEY? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Kean.  That  bill  has  not  been  reported,  has  it? 

Major  Llewellyn.  No,  sir.  When  that  was  called  to  his  attention 
Senator  Davis  said:  "This  is  infamous." 

Senator  Kean.  It  is  still  in  the  Committee  on  Foreign  Relations? 

Major  Llewllyn.  Yes,  sir;  but  we  stand  here  powerless. 

Senator  Bate.  Pardon  me  right  there — what  is  the  object  of  that? 

Major  Llewellyn.  The  object  is  to  build  the  international  dam  at 
or  just  above  El  Paso,  Tex. 

1  will  say  that  the  people  of  the  city  of  El  Paso,  through  their  Cham- 
ber of  Commerce,  have  said  to  their  Representatives  in  Congress  and 
to  their  two  Senators  that  they  do  not  want  these  objectionable  clauses 
in  that  bill.  We  do  not  want  New  Mexico  prohibited  from  building 
dams  above  there.  Our  relations  with  El  Paso  are  friendly.  We  do 
a  great  deal  of  trading  with  the  southern  portion  of  New  Mexico  and 
with  El  Paso;  but  there  is  a  long  story  connected  with  this  legislation 
that  I  will  not  take  up  your  time  to  go  into  to-day. 

The  Chairman.  1  think  you  had  better  go  to  the  main  question. 

Senator  Bate.  Pardon  me  there  for  one  moment,  for  that  is  a  very 
important  matter.  As  I  understand  you,  there  was  a  proposition 
made  to  cede  part  of  the  territory  of  the  United  States  to  Mexico  for 
its  own  purposes,  for  a  dam  ? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Bate.  Are  you  not  aware  of  the  fact,  Major,  that  there  is 
a  proposition  on  hand  between  the  Mexican  and  the  United  States 
Govenmients  to  build  a  large  dam  or  lake  there,  for  the  purpose  of 
restoring  to  Mexico  that  which  the  United  States  has  taken  away  from 
her  in  the  very  ways  mentioned,  by  cutting  canals  and  diverting  the 
waters  of  the  Rio  Grande 'i 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir;  1  am  aware  of  that. 

Senator  Bate.  Is  it  not  a  fact  that  two  or  three  of  the  Secretaries 
of  State  have  recommended  this  action,  and  that  communications  have 
been  going  on  between  the  Governments  of  Mexico  and  the  United 
States  for  three  or  four  years,  the  Mexicans  claiming  some  ten  or 
twenty  millions  of  dollars  because  your  people  have  diverted  water 
from  the  Rio  Grande  until  at  the  place  of  which  you  speak,  down 
there  at  El  Paso,  it  is  high  and  dry  a  large  part  of  the  year,  absolutely 
dried  up?  Is  not  that  so?  I  want  to  know  if  I  have  it  right.  Then  do 
not  the  Mexicans  come  in  and  say,  "  If  you  will  give  us  this  lake  up 
there  we  will  forgive  the  twenty  millions  of  dollars  you  owe  us  for 
this  destruction"?  And  have  they  not  filed  items  to  show  that  they 
have  lost  this  much  on  the  Mexican  side  of  that  river,  and  ar^Uhey 
not  on  file  now  in  the  State  Department  here,  and  are  not  proceedings 
going  on  to  that  effect? 

That  is  the  history  of  the  matter  as  I  understand  it;  and  a  bill  has 
been  introduced  to  build  the  dam  by  way  of  relieving  the  United  States 
from  all  this  pressure. 

Major  Llewellyn.  You  are  right,  Senator,  with  reference  to  a  part 
of  what  you  sa3^     It  is  true  that  efforts  have  been  made  to  negotiate 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  353 

such  a  treaty.  It  is  true  that  the  State  Department  has  receded  from 
portions  of  the  proposition  which  was  originated  and  presented  to 
them.  It  is  also  true  that  this  alleged  claim  which  the  Republic  of 
Mexico  has  against  the  United  States  of  America  is  a  fictitious,  fraudu- 
lent, and  trumped-up  claim,  and  was  so  declared  by  Attorney-General 
Harmon. 

Senator  Bate.  What  claim  do  you  mean? 

Major  Llewellyn.  The  claim  that  the  Mexican  Govei'nment  has 
trumped  up;  they  have  set  up  a  claim  against  the  Government  of  the 
United  States.  Attorney-General  Plarmon  passed  upon  that  claiuL 
Two  attorney  generals,  in  fact,  have  passed  upon  it.  and  said  tiiat  it 
was  not  worth  a  thing;  that  it  did  not  amount  to  anything  at  all;  that 
it  was  no  claim. 

The  Chairman.  How  about  vour  action  in  diverting  the  waters  of 
the  river  and  leaving  El  Paso  high  and  dry,  as  General  Bate  says? 

Senator  Bate,  Yes;  she  is  as  dry  as  a  bone. 

Major  Llew^ellyn.  I  live  just  43  miles  above  El  Paso,  right  in  the 
valley  of  the  Rio  Grande,  The  same  condition  confronts  us  that  con- 
fronts the  people  of  El  Paso.  The  truth,  as  I  understand  it,  gentle- 
men, with  reference  to  the  waters  of  the  Rio  Grande,  is  this: 

The  Rio  Grande  is  a  torrential  stream  depending  entirely  upon  the 
snowfalls  and  the  rains  up  in  the  big  mountains  in  Colorado  and 
northern  New  Mexico.  In  the  valley  of  the  San  Luis,  in  Colorado, 
the}"  have  started  an  enterprise  and  have  dug  large  canals  and  have 
diverted  the  water  until,  during  the  irrigation  season  when  we  need  it 
down  below,  they  are  using  the  principal  part  of  it  up  there. 

During  the  flood  times  there  is  no  way  of  impounding  these  waters, 
and  there  are  no  dams  in  the  Rio  Grande  in  the  Territory  of  New 
Mexico;  but  we  wish  to  build  them.  The  truth  is  that  there  is  water 
enough  for  the  international  dam,  and  we  do  not  care  whether  they 
build  the  international  dam  or  not.  But  we  do  not  wish  to  be  interfered 
with  in  building  a  dam  in  New  Mexico,  or  tw-o  of  them  if  we  wish; 
and  we  maintain  that  there  is  an  abundance  of  water  to  supply  all  of 
the  dams. 

The  Chairman.  With  reference  to  this  dam,  then,  do  you  mean  to 
say  that  you  would  build  it? 

Major  Llewellyn.  I  mean  to  saj^  that  if  we  were  a  sovereign 
State  of  the  United  States,  as  it  is  an  unnavigable  stream,  the  Gov- 
ernment of  the  United  States  would  not  attempt  to  interfere  with  us. 

The  Chairman.  I  mean  to  say,  you  would  build  the  dam? 

Major  Llewellyn,  Certainly  we  would  build  the  dam. 

The  Chairman.  And  the  Government  of  the  United  States  now 
interferes  with  your  building  the  dam  ? 

Major  Llew^ellyn,  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Because  El  Paso  and  other  places  below  are  left 
high  and  dry? 

Major  Llewellyn.    No,  sir;   that  was  not  the  contention  at  all. 

The  Chairman.  They  are  left  high  and  dry,  are  thej^  not? 

Major  Llewellyn.  They  are  without  water.  I  am  without  water 
to-day  at  my  town.  Notwithstanding  that,  however,  we  have  already 
harvested  one  good  crop  in  my  valley. 

The  Chairman.  Do  j^ou  not  think  the  interference  of  the  United 
States  there  is  a  matter  of  justice  and  prudence  to  all  people  concerned? 

Major  Llewellyn,  No;  if  the  Senator  will  pardon  me,  the  inter- 

H  s  B 23 


354  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

fcroncc  on  the  part  of  the  United  States  Department  of  Justice  with 
the  proposed  construction  of  the  Elephant  Butte  dam  arose  from  the 
fact  that  the  people  of  New  Mexico  were  depriving  the  people  of  El 
Paso,  Tex. ,  of  any  water  at  all.  The  claim  that  there  should  be  inter- 
ference was  trumped  up  on  the  proposition  that  the  impounding  of 
the  water  up  in  New  Mexico  by  that  big  dam  would  interfere  with 
the  navigation  of  the  Rio  Grande  down  below  at  Brownville. 

That  was  the  contention.  It  was  thrashed  out  in  our  courts.  Our 
courts  decided  against  the  Government.  It  went  up  on  appeal  to  the 
Supreme  Court  of  the  United  States;  and  on  an  application  based  on 
a  technicality  they  have  remanded  it  for  a  new  hearing,  claiming  that 
our  courts  did  not  give  the  Government  time  enough  to  get  in  the 
evidence  they  wished. 

The  Chairman.  Without  going  into  the  details  of  that  (which,  of 
course,  would  take  too  long),  and  going  to  your  main  point,  thereis 
one  question  that  occurs  to  my  mind  and  recurs  to  it.  That  is  this. 
You  say  that  you  can  not  now,  through  your  Territorial  legislature, 
construct  irrigation  work,  reservoirs  for  the  impounding  of  waters, 
or  any  other  public  works? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Not  on  the  Rio  Grande  or  the  tributaries  of  the 
Rio  Grande. 

The  Chairman.  Because  it  is  an  international  stream? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Because  we  are  prohibited  from  doing  so.  The 
litigation  is  pending  in  the  courts.     They  have  stopped  the  work. 

Senator  Kean.  You  are  enjoined  from  doing  so? 

Major  Llewellyn.   We  are  enjoined  from  doing  so. 

The  Chairman.  It  being  an  international  affair? 

Major  Llewellyn.  The  contention  of  the  Government  was  that  if 
we  were  to  impound  water  at  Elephant  Buttes  it  would  interfere  with 
navigation  down  at  Brownville,  Tex.,  the  lower  part  of  the  Rio 
Grande. 

The  Chairman.  Now,  Major,  outside  of  that  fact,  do  you  state  that 
you  have  not  the  right  and  power  now  to  construct  any  irrigation  sys- 
tem for  the  impounding  of  Avater,  or  any  other  public  works  that  you 
please  ? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Not  on  the  Rio  Grande. 

The  Chairman.  Outside  of  it? 

Major  Llewp:llyn.  Outside  of  that  we  have,  with  this  excep- 
tion  

The  Chairman.  Have  you  not  as  full  power  in  that  respect  now, 
save  in  the  case  of  this  international  river,  as  you  would  have  if  you 
were  a  State,  as  far  as  power  is  concerned? 

Major  Llewellyn.  We  would  have,  and  we  have  now,  th.e  same 
power  as  the  State  of  Colorado,  with  this  exception:  A  number  of 
vears  ago  the  so-called  Geological  Survey  wanted  Congress  to  enter 
in  uj^on  an  enterprise  like  this — to  have  a  topographical  survey  of  the 
drv  arroyos  of  the  West,  to  impound  the  waters,  to  locate  the  catch- 
ment basins,  ascertain  the  area  and  the  drain,  and  everything  of  that 
sort.  They  went  to  work  under  that  plan  before  they  were  stopped 
by  Congress  and  located  reservoir  sites  indiscriminately  all  over  our 
country,  and  some  of  them  are  hanging  there  yet. 

The  Chairman.  I  am  talking  about  your  own  power. 

Major  Llewellyn.  That  is  what  I  say.  We  would  have  that  power 
except  where  we  would  interfere  with  these  reservoir  sites  that  were 
located  b}'  the  Government. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  355 

The  CiiATRMAN.  You  would  have  absolute  power  as  fully  as  if  you 
were  a  State '^ 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir;  as  I  understand  it. 

The  Chairman.  Except  in  this  particular:  Where  the  bonds  issued 
for  that  purpose  would  throw  the  Territory  into  an  indebtedness  in 
excess  of  4-  per  cent  of  the  assessed  valuation  of  your  property,  that 
would  bo  the  only  place  where  Cong-ress  could  interfere? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes;  that  is  all. 

The  CiiAiiiMAN.  And  in  that  instance,  that  being  put  in  by  way  of  a 
peculiar  provision  of  the  Territorial  constitution  for  your  own  protec- 
tion. Congress  would  interfere  or  attempt  to  interfere  only  to  prevent 
your  increasing  j^our  bonded  indebtedness?     Is  that  the  case? 

Major  Llew^ellyn.  Yes,  sir;  yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Outside  of  that  you  have  as  full  powers,  locally,  as 
if  you  were  a  State  ? 

Major  Llew^ellyn.  Yes,  sir;  as  I  understand  it. 

The  Chairman.  And  is  it  not  true  that  the  4  per  cent  limitation  of 
indebtedness  which  Congress  has  placed  there  for  the  protection  of 
your  taxpayers  is,  on  the  average,  a  larger  latitude  of  indebtedness 
than  prevails  in  the  States  themselves,  under  their  constitutions? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes;  but,  if  the  Senator  will  pardon  me,  it  was 
not  proposed  to  tax  any  county  in  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico,  or  to 
tax  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico  to  build  this  Elephant  Butte  dam. 
It  was  to  be  built  with  private  capital. 

The  Chairman.  I  am  not  talking  about  that.  I  am  talking  about 
general  powers. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  I  will  state,  Mr.  Chairman,  if  you  will  permit  nie,  that 
I  have  made  a  special  study  of  the  question  about  which  the  Senator 
has  just  asked.  I  appeared  before  the  Attorney-General  this  winter 
to  oppose  his  rendering  an  opinion  in  favor  of  that  bill,  and  I  also 
appeared  before  the  Secretary  of  State.  I  understand  that  matter 
somewhat,  and  with  the  perm'ission  of  the  committee  I  will  be  heard 
upon  it  at  some  future  day. 

The  Chairman.  Certainly;  perhaps  as  soon  as  we  get  through  here 
this  afternoon.     Go  ahead.  Major. 

Major  Llewellyn.  Now,  to  dispose  of  the  question  of  permanent 
population  of  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico.     It  is  conceded,  as  I 
stated  before,  that  the  valley  of  the  Rio  Grande,  from  Espaiiola,  in 
Santa  Fe  Countv,  down  to  the  Texas  State  line,  will  support  a  popula- 
tion of  1,000,000  people.     That  would  be  a  pretty  good  permanent 
population  for  a  State,  would  it  not,   gentlemen?     Then  there  are 
innumerable  streams  in  the  valley  of  the  Rio  Pecos,  in  the  counties  of 
Chavis  and  Eddy,  the  two  southern  counties  of  the  Territory.     There 
are  already  constructed  there  large  irrigation  reservoirs  and  a  large 
system  of  ciuials  that  irrigate  thousands  of  acres  of  land.     There  has 
sprung  up  there  the  town  of  Carlsbad  in  Eddy  County. 
The  Chairman.  Who  did  that?     The  Territory? 
Major  Llewellyn.  That  was  done  by  private  capital. 
The  Chairman  I  mean  under  the  laws  of  the  Territory? 
Major  Llew^ellyn.   Under  the  laws  of  the  Territory  and  under  the 
laws  of  the  United  States.     That  was  before  this  litigation  came  up. 

The  Chairman.  You  say  this  national  irrigation  scheme  will  cover 
all  this  territory  of  which  you  speak? 
Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir. 
The  town  of  Roswell,  in  Chavis  County,  is  another  instance  of  what 


356  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

has  been  done.  I  was  over  at  Roswell  in  May.  I  found  there  a  pros- 
perous community,  a  splendid  town,  with  building  going-  on  right 
along.  There  are  150  artesians  wells  there,  flowing  wells  that  flow  all 
the  time  except  when  they  are  shut  ofi^.  That  section  of  New  Mexico 
is  just  as  fair  to  look  at  as  the  best  farming  parts  of  Indiana,  or  of 
Ohio,  or  Kentucky.     It  is  magnificent. 

The  Chairman.  Is  j-our  irrigation  scheme  under  the  laws  of  the 
Territory  'i 

Major  Llew^ellyn.  Yes,  sir;  that  is.  under  the  laws  of  the  Territory 
and  under  the  laws  of  the  United  States.  The  source  of  water  in  that 
section  for  irrigation  is  in  the  main  the  North  and  South  Spring  rivers, 
reinforced  by  these  artesian  wells.  Very  frequently  an  artesian  well 
will  irrigate  40  and  even  as  much  as  80  acres.  There  seems  to  be  quite 
a  belt  of  that  country  in  which  the  artesian  water  will  come. 

Senator  Beveridge  spoke  of  the  use  of  the  interpreters  in  the  courts; 
and  the  question  was  brought  up  with  reference  to  juries.  Under  our 
jur}^  system  in  New  Mexico  the  qualifications  for  a  juror  are,  first,  that 
he  must  be  a  citizen  of  the  United  States;  second,  that  he  must  be  the 
owner  of  real  estate  in  some  county  in  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico; 
third,  that  he  must  be  a  qualified  voter  in  the  county  wdiere  the  court 
is  being  held.  Then  the  following  persons  are  disqualified  from  sit- 
ting on  a  jury  under  our  Territorial  law.  I  cite  this  in  order  that  you 
may  see  that  we  have  good  laws  there: 

Persons  who  have  served  on  a  jury  or  on  a  commission  to  select  a 
jur}'  within  the  past  year  (that  provision  was  passed  in  order  to  stop 
this  "professional  juror"  business,  to  shutout  professional  jurors); 
persons  who  have  been  convicted  of  an  infamous  crime;  persons  living 
in  a  state  of  bigani}^  or  poly  gam}' ;  persons  addicted  to  the  excessive 
use  of  intoxicating  liquors  as  a  beverage;  persons  over  60  years  of 
age,  and  practicing  attorneys  at  law.     [Laughter.] 

The  Chairman.  The}"  are  included  with  the  criminals? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman,  xlnd  with  the  polygamists  ? 

Major  Llewellyn.  They  are  excluded  from  juiy  service.  The}'  are 
disqualified  from  sitting  on  a  jury  in  New  Mexico. 

I  undertake  to  say  that  there  is  not  any  Territory  or  State  in  the 
Union  where  the  laws  are  more  strictly  enforced  than  they  are  in  the 
Territory  of  New  Mexico. 

The  Chairman.  You  think  the  laws  themselves  are  good  and  wise? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Oh,  they  are  undoubtedly  good  and  wise. 

Senator  Bate.  Notwithstanding  the  Mexican  population?  _ 

Major  Llew^ellyn.  I  could  mention  for  your  information  just  a  few 
of  our  laws.  It  is  a  penitentiary  oftense  to  carry  a  deadly  weapon  in 
the  Territory  of  New  Mexico. 

Senator  Kean.  Is  that  law  enforced? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir;  it  is  enforced,  and  very  strictly,  too. 
The  cowboys  on  the  round-ups  are  forbidden  to  carry  deadly  weapons. 
Our  statute,  of  course,  defines  what  a  deadly  weapon  is.  ^  Travelers 
traveling  upon  the  highway  may  carry  arms.  They  have  fifteen  min- 
utes after  they  arrive  in  town  to  lay  aside  their  arms.  It  is  required 
under  our  law,  and  violation  of  the  law  is  punishable  by  fine  and 
imprisonment,  that  all  public  places  shall  keep  that  notice  posted  up, 
written  both  in  Spanish  and  English. 

The  crimes  that  are  committed  in  New  Mexico,  as  a  rule,  are  not 
committed  by  the  native  New  Mexicans.     We  are  on  the  border  ther«, 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


357 


you  know,  and  we  ^et  fugitives  from  justice  from  old  Mexico.  I 
uiulortnke  to  say  that  there  is  no  State  in  the  Union  where  the  crimi- 
nal hiws  are  better  enforced  to-day  than  they  are  in  the  State  of  Texas. 
The  Chairman.  It  is  a  kind  of  a "' '  bight  in'the  bay  "  for  New  Mexico  ? 
Major  Lleweixyn.  Yes,  sir;  they  punish  them  in  Texas,  and  they 
flee  from  Texas  and  come  from  Mexico  along  our  border.  In  my  dis- 
trict especially  we  reach  that  class  of  people;  but  we  enforce  the  laws 
there,  and  when  they  commit  a  crime  we  punish  them. 

So  many  of  the  laws  we  have  in  New  Mexico  are  in  advance  of  the 
laws  you  gentlemen  have  in  the  Eastern  States  that  I  will  not  attempt 
to  refer  to  all  of  them,  but  I  will  simply  mention  the  question  of  train 
robbery.  Last  year  a  train  robbery  occurred  up  in  New  York  State, 
which  was  a  very  unusual  thing,  and  it  set  the  papers  to  discussing, 
editorially,  how "^ they  would  prevent  train  robberies.  Why,  we  pre- 
vent it  in' New  Mexico.  It  is  a  capital  otl'ense  to  rob  a  railroad  train 
in  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico.  This  ^' Black  Jack,"  who  was 
hanged  a  year  ago  last  spring,  thought  he  was  robbing  a  train  over  in 
Colorado,  but  he  made  a  mistake  and  got  6  miles  inside  the  Territory 
of  New  Mexico,  and  was  caught  and  hanged. 

The  Chairman.  He  would'  not  have  robbed  it  if  he  had  known  it 
was  in  New  Mexico? 

Major  Llewellyn.  No.  sir.    Jack  said  himself  in  the  penitentiary: 
"Gentlemen,  before  God  I  didn't  know  I  was  in  New  Mexico!" 
The  Chairman.  He  thought  he  was  in  Arizona? 
Major  Llewellyn.   He  thought  he  was  in  Colorado.     Arizona  has 
the  same  law  that  we  have.     He  thought  he  was  in  Colorado,  but  he 
got  6  miles  over  the  line. 

The  Chairman,  He  thought  he  was  safe  in  Colorado  ? 
Major  Llewellyn.  He  thought  that  if  he  was  caught  at  least  he 
would  not  be  hanged, 

Mr.  Rodey.  There  is  no  capital  punishment  in  that  State. 
Major  Llewellyn.  No;  there  is  no  capital  punishment  in  Colorado. 
The  Chairman.  There  is  not  in  Russia,  either. 

Major  Llewellyn.  Now,  a  reference  was  made  in  one  of  your  ques- 
tions of  our  friend  Mr,  Rodey  to  the  school  system  of  New  Mexico. 
I  want  to  say  to  vou  that  it  is  the  pride  of  our  Territory  and  the  pride 
of  our  people.  "We  have  the  most  advanced  and  the  most  progressive 
school  law  of  any  State  or  Territory  in  the  United  States.  We  have 
absolutely  compulsory  education.  Mr.  Rodey  seems  to  have  forgotten 
one  point,  and  that  is'^that  the  teaching  of  the  English  language  in  the 
puldic  schools  in  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico  is  compulsory,  and  the 
teaching  of  Spanish  is  not  permitted,  and  is  not  taught  in  a  single 
public  school  of  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  mean  to  say  that  the  Spanish  language  is 
not  taught  at  all? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Not  in  the  public  schools. 
The  Chair^ian.  In  what  schools  is  it  taught? 

Major  Llewellyn.  I  was  going  to  explain  that.  We  have  in  my 
town  the  Territorial  Agricultural  College  and  School  of  Mechanic 
Arts,  which  derives  its  support  in  part  from  the  ''Morrill  fund,"  so 
called  from  Senator  Morrill,  who  was  the  father  of  the  bill,  and  in 
part  from  an  appropriation  which  was  made  by  our  Territorial  legis- 
lature. It  is  one  of  our  boasts,  and  a  source  of  pride  on  our  part,  that 
one  of  the  departments  of  that  institution  i*;  the  Spanish  department, 
where  the  Spanish  language  is  taught,   and  where  stenography  in 


358  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Spanish  and  Eng'lish  is  tauo-ht.  When  this  great  Government  wanted 
educated  persons  to  send  to  Manila  it  drew  on  the  Territory  of  New 
Mexico,  and  we  sent  a  whole  lot  of  persons  from  the  ao-ricultural 
college  and  from  the  State  university  at  Albuquer(|ue  to  the  Philip- 
pines to  till  these  important  positions.  We  are  glad  to  have  them. 
We  are  glad  to  have  the  Spanish  language  taught  there  under  those 
circumstances. 

The  Chairman.  You  do  not  mean  to  say,  though,  of  course — I 
merely  mention  that  to  correct  what  I  am  sure  you  did  not  intend  to 
be  the  inference — that  that  was  done  in  anticipation  of  this  Spanish 
iml)roglio  which  we  have  gotten  into? 

Major  Llewellyn.  No;  I  would  not  go  to  that  extent,  of  course. 

The  Chairman.  What  was  the  reason  you  taught  stenography  in 
Spanish? 

Major  Llewellyn.  I  will  tell  you  the  reason  that  branch  was  added. 
During  the  last  eight  or  ten  years  an  immense  amount  of  American 
capital  has  gone  into  the  Republic  of  Mexico,  into  the  various  devel- 
opments down  there,  and  there  has  grown  up  a  demand  for  persons 
trained  in  stenograph}^  in  Spanish,  and  our  school  has  heretofore  sup- 
plied them  to  Mexico. 

The  Chairman.  Are  there  in  Mexico  no  schools  to  teach  stenography 
in  Spanish? 

Major  Llewellyn.  I  do  not  know  whether  there  are  or  not;  but 
this  is  the  idea:  Here  is  an  American  mining  company.  A  stenog- 
rapher goes  down  there.  He  is  trained  in  Spanish,  he  is  trained  in 
English,  and  he  is  a  very  valuable  man.  We  sent  one  to  New  York 
not  long  ago.  He  is  now  occupying  a  good  position  with  a  firm  in 
New  York  having  relations  with  South  America. 

Aside  from  that  I  do  not  know  whether  the  Spanish  language  is 
taught  in  any  of  the  convents  of  the  Territory  or  not.  I  have  a 
daughter  who  was  educated  in  part  at  a  convent  in  my  town,  although 
I  am  not  a  Catholic. 

The  Chairman.  How  many  clerical  schools  are  there  there? 

Major  Llewellyn.  There  is  only  one  in  my  town. 

The  Chairman.  No,  no;  I  mean  in  the  Territory. 

Major  Llewellyn.  I  think  there  are  two,  or  possibly  three.  Yes; 
there  are  three — the  one  at  Las  Vegas,  the  Brothers'  School  at  Santa 
Fe,  and  the  school  at  your  town,  Mr,  Rodey,  at  Albucpicrque. 

The  Chairman.  Are  those  all  the  schools  in  which  Spanish  is  taught 
in  New  Mexico? 

Major  Llewellyn.  I  do  not  know  that  Spanish  is  taught  in  those 
schools.  I  do  not  know  whether  Spanish  is  taught  or  not,  but  English 
is  taught  there.  It  is  possible  they  may  teach  Spanish,  too;  but  the 
people  of  New  Mexico 

jVIr.  Rodey.  The  governor's  report,  Senator,  shows  onl}^  two  small 
Spanish  readers  or  primers  among  all  our  school  books.  I  was  look- 
ing over  it  the  other  day. 

Major  Llewellyn.  Now,  with  your  permission,  I  will  conclude 
with  a  reference  to  the  educational  proposition. 

I  can  pay  no  higher  tribute  to  the  Mexican  people,  gentlemen  of  the 
committee,  nor  ceui  1  give  j^ou  any  better  understanding  of  their  aspi- 
rations and  of  what  is  in^their  hearts,  than  when  I  tell  you  that  this 
school  law  which  I  have  described  to  you  was  passed  by  a  Mexican 


NEW    STATEKODD    BILL.  359 

legisliiture.  If  I  remember  correctly,  out  of  the  twelve  niembern  of 
the  council  I  think  there  were  three  Americans,  and  in  the  lower  house 
there  were  probabh'  three  or  four  Americans. 

Tliat  law  was  passed  by  the  Mexican  people  of  the  Territory  of 
New  Mexico.  The  Mexican  people  of  that  Territory,  oontlcmcn,  are 
sound  on  all  of  these  great  propositions  that  touch  the  hearts  of  the 
American  people,  and  in  which  we  are  all  interested.  There  is  not  a 
more  pati'iotic,  there  is  not  a  truer,  there  is  not  a  more  loyal  people 
in  the  world.  I  have  lived  among  them  for  twenty-one  years.  My 
neighbors  are  Mexicans.  It  can  be  said  about  them — I  say  it  to  them 
myself — that  if  there  is  any  fault  to  be  found  with  them  it  is  that  they 
are  not  a  progressive  people.  But  they  have  been  a  balance  wheel  in 
our  legislature.  The  only  two  counties  in  the  Territory  where  they 
voted  a  bonded  indebtedness,  which  hangs  upon  our  necks  to-day,  are 
counties  that  are  controlled  by  Americans.  That  was  done  before  this 
Harrison  Act,  or  the  Springei  Act,  whichever  you  choose  to  call  it,  was 
passed,  which  stopped  it. 

Our  aspirations  are  to  have  statehood.  We  feel  that  we  have  every 
qualilication  for  statehood.  We  want  to  be  a  part  of  this  great  Ameri- 
can Government.  We  want  the  right  to  vote  for  a  President.  That 
is  the  most  priceless  right  aii  American  citizen  can  have.  They  say  to 
us,  "Why,  what  difference  does  it  make  whether  you  vote  for  a  Presi- 
dent or  notr'     It  makes  every  difference  in  the  world. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  think  so '^  Do  you  think  that  is  the  most 
priceless  right? 

Major  Llewellyn.  It  is  one  of  the  most  priceless  rights — the  right 
to  vote  for  the  man  who  rules  this  country,  and  the  right  to  send  two 
United  States  Senators  here  whose  voices  will  be  heard  upon  this  floor 
in  protection  of  our  rights.     That  is  very  dear  to  our  hearts. 

There  has  not  been  a  time  since  New  Mexico  was  part  of  the 
United  States  when  our  people  have  failed  to  respond  to  a  single  call 
on  the  part  of  the  National  Government.  During  the  war  of  the 
rebellion,  while  it  may  have  passed  from  the  minds  of  many  people, 
there  were  two  considerable  battles  fought  in  the  Territory  of  New 
Mexico.  General  Sibley  invaded  New  Mexico  from  the  South,  coming 
up  the  Rio  Grande.  At  Val  Verde  there  was  a  desperate  battle  fought. 
The  Union  forces  were  defeated,  and  General  Sibley  passed  on  up  the 
Rio  Grande.  He  met  his  defeat  up  at  a  place  called  Glorieta,  in 
Santa  Fe  Count}' . 

The  question  is,  who  defeated  him  ?  Was  it  the  troops  sent  from 
Ohio,  Illinois,  or  Kentucky?  No;  it  was  the  native  troops  of  the 
Territory  of  New  Mexico.^  Many  of  them  gave  up  their  lives  in 
defense  of  their  country  there,  and  are  buried  there  to-day. 

The  Chaikman.  This  was  an  invading  force? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir;  during  the  war  between  the  States. 

That  is  an  illustration  of  the  patriotism  of  these  people.  Now,  it 
has  been  said  that  that  was  not  because  the  Mexicans  loved  the  United 
States  so  much,  but  that  they  hated  Texas  worse.  [Laughter.]  But 
that,  I  think,  is  uncharitable,  because  they  have  a  devotion  to  and  a 
love  for  this  country.     There  is  not  a  question  of  doubt  about  it. 

New  Mexico  furnished  a  little  over  half  of  Colonel  Roosevelt's  regi- 
ment; and  I  could  have  taken  all  of  the  Mexican  troops  I  wanted. 
They  had  to  turn  them  away ;  thej'  could  not  enlist  them. 


3G0  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  1  will  state,  for  the  benefit  of  the  committee,  that  Major 
Llewellyn"  himself  was  a  major  in  that  regiment.  He  has  not  stated 
that  fact. 

Colonel  Bond.  His  son  was  survej^or-general,  and  was  also  in  the 
same  company  with  the  President. 

Major  Llew^ellyn.  Our  native  people  have  been  unjustly  criticised, 
as  a  result  of  the  casual  observation  of  people  passing  through  New 
Mexico  on  the  trains,  tourists,  and  sometimes  people  who  are  not  tour- 
ists. 1  had  a  little  incident  along  that  line  happen  last  year.  Mr. 
Kenneth  Harris,  of  the  Chicago  Record,  who  is  a  noted  sketcher  or 
artist  wdth  the  pencil  and  a  great  writer,  came  down  to  New  Mexico 
and  we  showed  him  a  great  deal  of  attention.  He  prepared  a  series  of 
articles  on  the  resources  of  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico,  on  our  devel- 
opment, and  the  thing-s  we  are  proud  of,  including  an  article  on  our 
educational  institutions.  He  sent  those  articles  down  to  his  paper,  and 
he  w^as  a  guest  at  my  house  in  Lascruces  when  he  received  a  letter  stat- 
ing that  they  did  not  care  to  publish  them.  They  said:  "Give  us 
something  hot." 

He  went  to  work  then  and  wrote  up  the  life  of  Pat  Garrett  and  the 
killing  of  Billy  the  Kid  and  those  other  desperadoes  down  there. 

Mr.  Rodey!  All  those  things  passed  away  fifteen  years  ago. 

]\lajor  Llewellyn.  And  from  those  things  the  people  east  judge 
our  people.  It  is  like  the  old  lady  from  Boston.  She  got  off  at  Las 
Vegas  and  said  she  was  going  over  to  Santa  Fe  and  wanted  to  buy 
some  postage  stamps  before  she  went  over.  She  was  very  much  sur- 
prised to  find  out  that  there  was  a  post-ofiice  over  in  Santa  Fe  and  she 
could  buy  them  there  the  same  as  she  could  in  Boston. 

That  illustrates  the  idea  that  many  people  have.  It  is  a  common 
thing  in  the  East,  gentlemen.  I  was  over  at  Newport  the  other  day, 
and  was  introduced  to  a  gentleman  as  being  from  New  Mexico. 
"  Well,"  he  said,  "how  do  you  like  it  living  down  there  in  Mexico?" 
I  said:  "I  don't  live  in  Mexico,  sir;  I  live  in  New  Mexico."  Then  he 
wanted  to  know  how  I  liked  it  living  down  on  the  Gulf  coast.  I  told 
him  that  it  was  about  9(»0  miles  from  where  1  lived  to  the  Gulf  coast. 

I  will  say  to  this  committee,  not  to  take  up  your  time  any  more,  that 
I  would  have  been  very  glad  to  have  had  an  opportunity  to  have  pre- 
pared something  that  would  have  been  entertaining  to  you  and  some- 
thing that  might  have  done  our  Territory  some  good.  We  want 
statehood  because  we  are  equipped  for  it.  I  will  lay  aside  the  ques- 
tion of  whether  it  is  an  inherent  right,  or  whether  it  is  guaranteed  by 
the  treaty  of  Guadalupe  Hidalgo,  or  not.  We  want  it  because  we  are 
entitled  to  it  from  the  population  we  have,  from  the  resources  we  have, 
and  from  the  fact  that  we  are  going  to  build  up  a  magnificent  empire 
there.  There  is  not  any  State  or  Territory  in  the  Union  that  has  the 
coal  and  iron  New  Mexico  has,  and  we  will  build  there  one  of  the 
grandest  and  most  patriotic  States  there  is  in  the  United  States,  if  you 
will  simply  pass  this  bill  and  give  us  the  right  to  do  so. 

I  will  say  this  to  you,  gentlemen:  While  I  am  satisfied  beyond  a 
doubt  that  New  Mexico  will  return  to  the  United  States  Senate  two 
Republican  Senators,  yet  if  I  knew  to-morrow  that  it  would  return 
two  Democratic  Senators  I  would  be  'ust  as  enthusiastic  for  statehood, 
because  we  want  it,  we  are  entitled  to  it,  and  we  can  not  progress  and 
fulfill  our  destiny  until  we  have  statehood  and  have  the  right  to  govern 
ourselves. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  361 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  not  govern  yourselves  now? 

Major  Llewellyn.  No;  we  do  not  govern  ourselves,  if  the  Senator 
will  pardon  me. 

The  Chairman.  You  do  not? 

Major  Llewellyn.  No,  sir;  there  is  not  an  act  of  the  legislature 
that  is  worth  the  paper  it  is  written  upon  until  you  gentlemen  put 
vour  sign  of  approval  u])on  it  and  say  that  it  is  the  law. 

The  Chairman.  You  do  not  mean  ito  say  that,  Major? 

Major  Llewellyn.  I  mean  to  say,  in  other  words,  that  you  can  set 
aside  auv  law  we  pass. 

The  Chairman.  Ah!  But  has  the  Congress  of  the  United  States 
very  frequentlv  set  aside  any  law? 

Major  Lle^vellyn.  Well,  I  will  say  that  I  think  the  instances  where 
thev  have  are  not  many. 

The  Chairman.  And  where  they  have  done  so  it  has  been  for  wise 
reasons  that  appealed  to  the  judgment  of  Congress? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Possibly  that  may  be  true.  There  may  be  some 
bill  that  has  been  set  aside  that  I  may  have  asked,  myself,  to  have 
Congress  set  aside.     1  do  not  remember. 

The  Chairman.  But,  Major,  as  long  as  you  speak  about  it,  it  is 
true,  is  it  not,  that  your  people  elect  your  own  legislature  and  pass 
your  own  laws,  and  that  you  have  as  full  a  measure  of  self-government 
as  any  community  in  the  world,  so  far  as  local  self-government  is 
concerned  ? 

Major  Llewellyn.  No. 

The  Chairman.  Subject  only  to  the  wise  supervision  of  Congress, 
which  has  verv  seldom  been  exercised. 

Major  Llewellyn.  Oh,  that  cloud  is  hanging  over  us  contin- 
ually. We  have  no  representation  here.  We  have  taxation  without 
representation. 

The  Chairman.  Whaf^ 

Major  Llewellyn.  It  is  taxation  without  representation. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  not  levy  your  own  taxes? 

Major  Llewellyn.  'We  have  no  representation  in  the  Senate. 

The  Chair:man.  Do  you  not  levy  your  own  taxes? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir;  we  do;  but  it  is  taxation  without 
representation,  because  we  have  no  representation. 

Mr.  Rodey.   We  do  not  levy  our  internal-revenue  taxes,  Senator. 

Major  Llew^ellyn.  The  TcTritory  of  New  Mexico  has  been  a  source 
of  income  and  revenue  to  the  United  States. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  erect  public  buildings  and  public  works 
there  ? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Out  of  the  public  taxation? 
Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Under  what  law? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Under  the  laws  passed  by  the  Territory  of  New- 
Mexico. 
The  Chairman.  Therefore  you  tax  yourselves,  do  you  not? 
Major  Llewellyn.  Yes;  but  if  the  Senator  will  pardon  me  a 
moment,  I  will  explain  about  that.  The  last  legislative  assembly  passed 
an  act  authorizing  a  bond  issue  of  $25,000  to  erect  dormitories  at  the 
agricultural  college  at  my  town  and  $25,000  for  the  Roswell  Military 
Institute.     That  act  was  "passed  in  February. 


862  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Senator  Kean.  And  125,000  more  for  the  insane  asylum? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes;  for  the  insane  asylum.  That  act  was 
passed,  I  think,  in  February,  1*J01. 

That  was  the  voice  of  the  people  that  spoke  through  its  legislative 
assembly.  There  was  not  a  dissenting  vote.  That  was  the  unanimous 
vote  of  the  legislative  assembly. 

Have  we  built  those  buildings?  Has  Mr.  Rodey  induced  the  Senate, 
up  to  the  present  time,  to  put  its  stamp  of  approval  upon  those  bills, 
so  that  we  can  get  that  money  'I 

The  Chairman,  He  induced  the  majority  of  the  committee  to  do  it. 
You  should  address  your  remarks  to  General  Bate.     [Laughter.] 

Senator  Bate.  I  am  open  to  it.  We  are  going  to  let  you  be  a  State 
very  soon,  and  as  a  State  you  can  do  it  without  any  trouble. 

The  Chairman.  Now,  Major,  is  it  not  a  fact  that  those  bonds  are  to 
be  secured  by  revenues  from  lands  which  are  given  the  Territory  by 
an  act  of  the  United  States? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Certainly;  that  is  correct. 

The  Chairman,  And  is  it  not  a  fact,  further,  that  the  only  reason 
in  the  vforld  why  you  want  Congress  to  validate  those  laws  is  because 
some  lawyers  who  wanted  to  buy  those  bonds  said  they  would  have  a 
higher  uiarket  value  if  Congress  validated  the  laws,  but  that  as  a  sheer 
matter  of  legal  right  vour  acts  themselves  are  sufficient? 

Major  Llewellyn.  No;  we  do  not  think  they  are  sufficient  at  all. 

Mr.  Rodey.  We  are  not  able.  Senator,  to  make  the  land  security 
for  bonds  at  all  under  the  act  of  Congress.     I  believe  that  is  the  reason. 

Major  Llewellyn,  We  can  not  sell  the  bonds  until  Congress 
approves  them.  Now,  the  question  of  our  having  carpetbaggers 
imposed  upon  us 

The  Chairman.  Pardon  me  a  moment  upon  that  point,  because  you 
touch  there  an  important  point.  Major.  As  1  have  said  a  dozen  times, 
my  mind  is  open  on  this  question;  but  you  want  to  be  fair,  and  so 
do  we. 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes;  I  want  to  be  accurate. 

The  Chairman.  Is  it  not  true — talking  now  about  local  taxation — 
that  you  could  get  the  money  to  build  those  buiklings,  if  you  wished, 
by  passing  a  bill  creating  a  levy  for  this  purpose  (^ 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes;  I  presume  we  could. 

The  Chairman.  Certainly  you  could  do  that.  So  that  you  could 
tax  yourselves  for  this  purpose  if  you  wished? 

Major  Llewellyn.  We  coukl,  but 

The  Chairman.  This  bill  asks  Congress  to  validate  the  acts  of  the 
legislature,  to  divert  the  reveiuies,  as  my  friend  General  Bate  would 
say,  from  lands  given  you  by  the  United  States  for  these  purposes? 

Major  Llewellyn.  These  lands  are  for  these  identical  institutions. 

The  Chairman,  So  you  have  the  power  to  tax  yourselves  for  this 
purpose,  if  you  wish,  in  addition  to  this? 

Major  Llewellyn,  We  have  the  power,  but,  as  I  have  said  before, 
there  can  not  be  an  act  of  the  legislative  assembly  passed  that  Con- 
gress can  not  set  aside.  That,  as  I  understand  it,  is  true.  In  other 
words,  you  can  set  aside  any  act  we  have  passed. 

Senator  Bate.  You  have  plenty  of  means  there,  however,  in  the 
way  of  sources  of  taxation,  to  carry  on  all  these  schools  and  colleges 
and  so  on.  They  are  going  on  all  right,  are  they  not,  without  anv 
interference  on  the  part  of  the  General  Government? 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  363 

Major  Llewellyn.  We  need  the  ))uilding'.s  very  badly. 

Senator  Bate.  I  am  speaking  of  such  as  you  have. 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes. 

Senator  Bate.  You  will  get  them  when  you  get  statehood;  and  you 
will  get  that,  too,  in  a  year,  I  think. 

Major  Llewellyn.   We  hope  so;  we  will  be  glad  to  do  it  then. 

Senator  Dillin(;ham.  Major,  can  you  tell  me  what  proportion  of 
the  agricultural  lands  of  the  State  have  sufficient  moisture  without 
irrigation  ? 

Major  Llewellyn.  No,  sir;  I  can  not;  but  I  know  that  there  are 
certain  areas  of  the  Territory  that  will  grow  crops  without  irrigation. 
I  was  very  much  surprised  the  other  da}',  coming  through  the  north- 
ern part  of  the  Territory,  to  meet  a  friend  of  mine  who  told  me  that 
on  the  mesa  (that  is,  the  tableland),  out  north  and  west  from  Rattoun, 
in  Colfax  County,  there  were  over  40,000  acres  of  land  being  culti- 
vated; and  he  said:  "You  ought  to  go  and  see  those  beautiful  farms." 
That  is  up  at  a  pretty  high  elevation.  They  cultivate,  in  many  cases, 
without  irrigation  in  the  more  elevated  sections  of  the  Territory;  but 
they  only  raise  certain  crops  there,  such  as  rye,  wheat,  barley,  Irish 
potatoes,  and  summer  corn. 

Down  where  1  live,  and  down  in  the  valley  of  the  Rio  Grande,  we 
can  raise  all  of  the  line  European  varieties  of  grapes.  We  can  raise 
them,  we  think — without  an}^  reflection  at  all  upon  California — better, 
perhaps,  than  they  do  in  California,  for  the  reason  that  it  is  drj^er 
there,  and  they  get  more  sugar.  As  the  grape  raiser  expresses  it, 
there  is  ""more  sugar  in  the  grape;"  there  is  not  the  moisture  that 
there  is  on  the  coast. 

Senator  Dillingham.  As  a  general  proposition,  then,  it  is  true  that 
the  Territory  is  dependent  upon  irrigation  to  develop  it  agriculturally, 
is  it  not? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Oh,  3'es;  that  is  the  general  proposition.  The 
area  of  land  that  can  be  irrigated  that  will  grow  crops  without  irriga- 
tion would  probably  be  very  small. 

I  was  going  to  mention,  briefly,  this  question  of  the  so-called  "  carpet- 
bagism."  As  long  as  we  remain  a  Territory,  while  frequently  the 
officers  are  appointed  from  residents  of  the  Territory,  they  are  not  the 
choice  of  the  people  of  the  Territor}'^  of  New  Mexico.  They  are 
appointed,  frequentl}^,  for  some  such  cause  as  this:  I  maj'  have  a  friend 
whom  I  want  appointed  to  an  office  down  in  New  Mexico.  The  major- 
ity of  the  people  there  do  not  want  him.  I  slip  off  down  here  to  Wash- 
ington. I  have  a  friend  here  in  the  Senate-,  say  Senator  Allison,  or 
whoever  the  gentleman  is.  I  go  to  him  and  fmy,  "Here  are  some 
indorsements  for  this  man.  I  certify  to  you  that  he  is  a  good  man  for 
this  position."  The  Senator  goes  over  and  sees  the  President,  and  the 
man  is  appointed. 

Now,  that  is  not  home  rule. 

The  Chairman.  Major,  do  j'^ou  mean  to  say  that  that  is  the  way 
things  are  done  now  ? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Oh,  it  is  frequently  done  in  that  way. 

The  Chairman.  But  is  not  the  whole  tendency  at  the  present  time 
to  appoint  residents  of  these  Territories? 

Major  Llewellyn.  I  will  sa}'  that  I  believe  conditions  in  that 
respect  have  been  getting  better  all  the  time  during  the  last  six,  eight, 
or  ten  years.     Mr.  Cleveland  did  some  good  work  in  that  direction. 


364  NEW    RTATEHOOT)    BTLL. 

The  Chairman.  Bring  it  down  to  your  oAvn  Territory.  Take  your 
governor,  for  instance.     Is  he  not  the  choice  of  your  people? 

Major  IjLewellyn.  Undoubtedly. 

The  ('hairman.  Is  not  the  secretary  of  state  the  choice  of  your 
people  ? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Undoubtedly. 

The  Chairman.  Are  not  most  of  these  land  officers,  who  are  United 
States  officers,  anyway,  the  choice  of  the  people'^ 

Major  Llewellyn.  I  am  afraid  not. 

The  Chairman.  In  any  event,  the  land  officers  would  be  appointed 
by  the  United  States  Government. 

Senator  Bate.  But  he  sa3^s  he  does  not  like  them  because  they  are 
not  appointed  from  there. 

Major  Llewellyn.  They  are  not  always  residents  of  the  Territory; 
for  instance,  without  being  personal  at  all,  there  is  Mr.  Leland,  the 
register  of  the  land  oflice  over  at  lloswell.     He  was  not  appointed 

The  Chairman.  But  the  land  oflicers,  even  if  you  were  a  State,  would 
be  appointed  by  the  Federal  Government. 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  So  that  does  not  affect  this  question  at  all. 

Senator  Bate.  They  would  be  citizens  of  the  State,  would  they  not? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir;  they  would  not  be  appointed,  however, 
on  the  recommendation 

The  Chairman.  They  are  citizens  of  the  Territory  now,  are  they  not? 

Major  Lleavellyn.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  So  when  it  comes  to  the  land  officers,  they  are 
eliminated  ? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Well,  they  are  controlled  largely  from  the 
outside. 

The  Chairman.  1  say  the}-  would  be  eliminated  anyhow,  because 
they  would  be  the  same  under  statehood  as  now. 

Major  Llewellyn.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Precisely.  And  the  other  State  officers  there,  you 
think,  are  the  choice  of  the  people? 

Major  Llewellyn.  I  think  so;  undoubtedly. 

The  Chairman.  You  are,  of  course? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Well,  1  do  not  know  about  that.  [Laughter.] 
I  am  appointed  by  the  governor. 

Senator  Bate.  Do  3'ou  not  know  numerous  instances  there  in  recent 
years  where  the  officers  of  whom  you  speak  have  been  appointed  while 
living  in  other  States  through  influence  at  Washington? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Oh,  yes. 

Senator  Bate.  1  desire  to  ask  you  now,  after  you  have  gone  over 
your  testimony  and  made  it  pretty  full,  if  the  people  of  that  Territory 
en  masse  do  not  desire  statehood,  and  the  earlier  the  better? 

Major  Llewellyn.  Senator,  I  think  I  can  say  truthfully  that  1  do 
not  know  ten  people  in  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico  who  are  against 
statehood.  1  do  not  know  ten  people  in  the  whole  Territory  who  are 
against  it. 

Senator  Bate.  That  is  all  the  answer  I  want. 

Major  Llewellyn.  I  do  not  know  who  they  are;  I  do  not  know 
where  they  are.     It  is  the  aspiration  of  our  people. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  know  one  ? 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  365 

Mr.  RoDF.Y.  There  is  Judg-e  Freeman;  he  was  rather  "on  the  fence." 

Major  Llewellyn.  I  understand  he  was  that  way.  I  was  just  try- 
ing- to  think  if  1  knew  anyone  in  my  district. 

Senator  Bate.  That  will  do,  as  far  as  1  am  concerned. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Will  the  committee  permit  me  to  make  a  ten-minute 
statement  on  the  irrigation  question  'i 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  not  think  we  had  better  get  through  with 
the  gentlemen  who  wish  to  go  away  before  Monday? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Yes;  that  might  be  the  better  course. 

Major  Llewellyn.  Gentlemen,  I  wish  to  thank  you  very  kindly  for 
your  attention. 

The  Chairman.  We  are  veiy  much  obliged  to  you. 

STATEMENT    OF   JOHN   L.  GAY,  ESa.,  OF   THE   RAIL V/ AY   MAIL 

SERVICE. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Gay,  what  is  your  full  name? 

Mr.  Gay.  My  name  is  John  L.  Gay.  I  am  an  employee  of  the 
Railway  Mail  Service;  was  for  many  years  a  resident  of  New  Mexico, 
and  am  at  present  employed  between  New  York  City  and  San  Juan, 
Porto  Rico. 

The  Chairman.  Where  do  3^ou  come  from,  Mr.  Gay? 

Mr.  Gay.  My  home  originally  was  in  Missouri. 

The  Chairman.  In  what  part? 

Mr.  Gay.  The  central  part.  For  many  years  I  was  a  resident  of 
New  Mexico,  and,  being  familiar  with  the  Spanish  language  to  some 
extent,  I  had  an  opportunity  of  becoming  quite  well  acquainted  with 
the  people.  I  was  on  the  Santa  Fe  system  between  Colorado  and  New 
Mexico,  and  had  in  that  manner  a  good  opportunity  of  comparing  the 
Territory  and  the  State. 

I  wish  to  say  to  3"0u,  gentlemen,  that  it  is  a  fact  that  can  not  be  dis- 
puted that  by  reason  of  Colorado  being  a  State  her  resources  have  been 
developed,  and  capital  has  gone  in  there  and  made  her  one  of  the 
richest  States  of  the  Union  to-day;  while  New  Mexico,  on  the  south, 
with  an  equally  good  climate  and  with  equally  as  good  soil  as  Colo- 
rado, has  been  neglected.  To-day  you  can  not  get  capitalists  in  New 
York  City  to  invest  in  New  Mexico  enterprises,  while  they  will  gladly 
invest  in  Colorado  enterprises. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Rodc}^  said  that  Pennsylvania  capital  was  will- 
ing to  invest  in  New  Mexico. 

Mr.  Gay.  Possibly,  to  some  extent. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Mr.  Gay  came  away  a  year  and  a  half  ago.  That  has 
all  gone  in  there  since. 

Mr.  Gay.  Yes,  sir;  but  only  last  Monday  I  was  talking  to  some 
gentlemen  in  regard  to  the  cattle  industry  in  the  West,  and  we  men- 
tioned Colorado  and  New  Mexico  in  conversation,  and  they  told  me 
they  did  not  want  to  invest  in  New  Mexico. 

The  Chairman.  In  the  cattle  industry  ? 

Mr.  Gay.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Because  it  was  a  Territory? 

Mr.  Gay.  Because  it  was  a  Territory. 

The  Chairman.  And  not  a  State  ? 

Mr.  Gay.  And  not  a  State. 


366  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

The  Chairman.  I  want  to  get  that  clear.  A  capitalist  said  to  you 
that  he  would  not  invest  in  the  cattle  industiy  in  New  Mexico  because 
it  was  not  a  State? 

Mr.  Gay.  He  did  not  care  to  consider  New  Mexico  at  all,  because  it 
was  a  Territory  and  not  a  State. 

The  Chairman.  Why? 

Mr.  Gay.  I  think  the  principal  reason  is  that  there  is  an  erroneous 
impression  on  the  part  of  the  averao^e  man  as  to  what  a  Territory  is. 
They  do  not  stop  to  consider  what  the  laws  are,  and  how  effective  they 
are,  as  passed  in  a  TerritoiT. 

With  regard  to  the  native  element  in  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico 
I  can  speak  with  some  knowledge,  because  I  speak  the  language  to 
some  extent. 

As  far  as  the  people  of  Porto  Rico  are  concerned,  who  to-day  enjoy 
almost  as  good  a  government  as  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico,  there 
is  no  comparison  at  all,  gentlemen.  The  average  New  Mexican  is  far 
ahead  of  the  average  Porto  Rican  to-da}^  in  point  of  intelligence  and 
in  point  of  being  capable  of  self-government. 

That  is  a  fact;  and  as  I  travel  over  that  island  and  see  the  school- 
houses,  which  are  certainly  a  credit  to  this  country,  with  the  Ameri- 
can flag  waving  above  them,  it  makes  me  and  every  man  who  goes 
over  there  feel  a  pride  in  his  country.  But  1  often  hear  it  said  by 
tourists,  "Is  it  not  a  fact  that  our  Government  to-day  is  doing  more 
for  the  people  of  Porto  Rico  than  it  is  for  some  of  its  people  at  home?" 
That  is  true.  To-day,  in  the  Arkansas  Valley,  just  north  of  the 
northern  boundary  of  New  Mexico,  the  beet-sugar  industry  is  in  full 
blast.     They  have  one  large  factory 

The  Chairman.  Where  is  that? 

Mr.  Gay.  In  the  Arkansas  Valley,  between  the  Kansas  line  and 
Pueblo,  Colo. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  not  in  New  Mexico? 

Mr.  Gay.  No;  just  north  of  it.  They  have  one  large  factory  and 
two  others  are  contemplated.  They  have  large  irrigation  ditches 
there,  some  of  them  75  miles  long,  irrigating  that  valley,  and  New 
Mexican  people  go  up  there  to  seek  emplo3anent,  for  the  reason  that 
capital  will  not  go  into  the  Territory  and  embark  in  those  enterprises. 

The  Chairjian.  Do  you  mean  to  say  that  the  reason  3^ou  have  not  a 
beet  industry  in  New  Mexico  is  because  it  is  not  a  State? 

Mr.  Gay.  Because  it  is  not  a  State,  and  capital  will  not  go  down 
there  and  invest  in  the  irrigation  ditches. 

The  Chairman.  It  will  not  invest  in  the  beet  industry  in  New  Mex- 
ico because  it  is  a  Territory  ? 

Mr.  Gay.  That  is  a  secondaiy  consideration.  The  first  is  the  neces- 
sity of  the  water  with  which  to  irrigate  the  land. 

The  Chairman.  But  why  not?  They  have  the  same  powers  to  pro- 
vide irrigation  by  the  acts  of  their  legislature  that  they  would  if  they 
were  a  State.     Why  not? 

Mr.  Gay.  The  General  Government  has  never  conceded  to  the  Ter- 
ritory its  school  lands,  has  it,  Mr.  Rodey,  to  any  great  extent? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Half  of  them,  in  1898.     We  are  getting  in  shape  now. 

Mr.  Gay.  In  Colorado  they  can  lease  their  school  lands  to  those 
people,  and  can  give  them  the  power  to  build  their  ditches;  and  thereby 
capital  comes  in  and  invests  in  these  enterprises.  There  is  no  appre- 
ciable difference  between  the  climate  of  Colorado  and  of  New  Me:uco, 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  367 

and  there  is  no  other  reason  m  hy  there  should  be  any  discrimination — 
why  one,  on  the  north,  should  progress  greatly  and  the  one  on  the 
south  should  not.  It  is  simply  because  one  is  a  State  and  the  other  is 
a  Territory. 

The  Chairman.  Biit  is  that  true?  For  instance,  here  is  capital 
invested  enormously  in  one  of  the  Northern  States.  Senator  Simon, 
in  a  speech  the  other  day,  spoke  of  the  enormous  resources  of  North 
Carolina,  where  he  said  there  was  room  for  capital  to  come  in.  There 
are  man}^  States  in  certain  sections  where  capital  does  not  go  in, 
although  they  are  States  and  although  their  resources  are  enormous. 

I  wanted  to  point  that  out  to  3''ou.  Might  there  not  be  some  other 
thing  to  which  it  is  attributable  than  the  Territorial  condition? 

Mr.  Gay.  Well,  Senator,  it  seems  that  way  to  us,  for  the  reason 
that  the  two  are  adjoining.  We  notice  that  particularly.  Colorado 
has  been  wonderfully  successful  in  the  past  few  years.  They  have 
enormous  factories,  foundries,  and  steel  works  at  Pueblo,  Colo. ,  and  we 
have  practically  the  same  resources  on  the  south. 

Another  thing:  At  the  present  time  New  Mexico  and  Colorado  and 
Arizona  are  the  sanitarium  for  the  Eastern  people,  and  are  becoming 
more  so  every  day.  If  you  give  New  Mexico  statehood,  jou  will 
enable  her  to  branch  out  and  make  it  more  pleasant  for  those  people 
in  the  future  when  the}"  come  out  there. 

The  Chairman.  Why? 

Mr.  Gay.  For  various  reasons.  Statehood  will  bring  agriculturists 
into  the  country.  M'e  all  know  that,  because  we  have  capital  at  home 
there  to-day  that  will  not  invest  in  irrigation  ditches  just  because  it  is 
a  Territor}^  I  think,  and  for  no  other  reason. 

The  Chairman.  I  am  very  much  interested  to  know  why.  They 
have  the  power. 

Mr.  Gay.  The}'  certainly  have  not  the  same  power  they  would  have 
under  a  State  government. 

Senator  Bate.  I  would  like  to  know  how  long  you  lived  in  New 
Mexico  ? 

Mr.  Gay.  About  seventeen  years. 

Senator  Bate.  What  is  your  native  place? 

Mr.  Gay.  I  was  born  in  Missouri. 

Senator  Bate.  Have  you  any  Spanish  blood? 

Mr.  Gay.  None  whatever. 

Senator  Bate.  You  speak  the  Spanish  language,  do  you  not? 

Mr.  Gay.  I  learned  it  from  coming  in  contact  with  the  people. 

Senator  Bate.  You  have  been  down  there  in  business  for  the  Gov- 
ernment of  the  United  States? 

Mr.  Gay.  Principally  in  the  postal  service;  nearly  all  the  time. 

Senator  Bate.  It  seems  that  you  have  been  down  to  Porto  Rico? 

Mr.  Gay.  For  the  past  year  and  a  half  I  have  been  in  the  employ 
of  the  service  on  the  steamers  between  New  York  City  and  San  Juan. 

Senator  Bate.  So  3'ou  have  seen  that  people  also? 

Mr.  Gay.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Bate.  I  ask  3'ou  that  because  you  have  contrasted  them. 

Mr.  Gay.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Bate.  You  have  lived  among  those  people  in  New  Mexico? 

Mr.  Gay.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Bate.  What  do  you  think  about  the  people  there  desiring 
statehood  ? 


368  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Mr.  Gay.  I  am  sure,  sir,  that  the  number  of  people  there  who  do 
not  desire  statehood  is  very,  very  small.  In  fact,  they  were  almost 
unanimous  in  desiring  it  when  I  was  there. 

Senator  Dillingham.  Do  you  know  what  the  relative  Mexican 
population  is  in  the  two  sections  you  have  mentioned — for  instance, 
Colorado  and  New  Mexico? 

Mr.  Gay.  There  are  certainly  a  greater  number  of  Mexicans  in  New 
Mexico  than  there  are  in  that  portion  of  Colorado,  although  there  are 
quite  a  few  in  the  southern  part  of  the  State  of  Colorado.  I  was  in 
the  interior  there  some  distance,  and  1  want  to  say  that  the  native 
Mexicans  there  are  very  patriotic. 

The  Chairman.  You  were  in  the  interior,  you  say? 

Mr.  Gay.  I  was  awa}^  from  the  lines  of  railroad;  yes. 

The  Chairman.  What  language  is  spoken  in  the  interior? 

Mr.  Gay.  In  the  outlying  districts  it  is  almost  entirely  Spanish, 
although  3^ou  can  not  go  into  any  district  but  what  j^ou  will  find  Mexi- 
cans who  speak  the  English  language. 

The  Chatriman.  In  the  outlying  districts  what  do  the  children  speak? 

Mr.  Gay.  They  nearly  all  speak  the  Spanish  language. 

The  Chairman.  Where  do  they  learn  it? 

Mr.  Gay.  From  their  fathers  and  mothers. 

The  Chairman.  Do  they  have  schools  there? 

Mr.  Gay.  They  have  schools;  yes,  sir — public  schools. 

The  Chairman.  Is  Spanish  taught  in  those  schools  ? 

Mr.  Gay.  Not  in  the  public  schools;  no. 

The  Chairman.  Do  they  have  private  schools  ? 

Mr.  Gay.  Not  in  the  interior.  They  have  in  the  principal  cities 
only. 

Senator  Dillingham.  I  suppose  you  would  not  claim  that  they  are 
as  progressive  a  people  as  the  Americans  ? 

Mr.  Gay.  No,  sir;  living  in  that  climate  they  are  not.  They  are 
patriotic,  and  I  believe  to-dav  that  the  percentage  of  crime  among 
them  is  as  small  as  it  is  in  almost  any  section  of  our  country.  They 
are  a  very  peaceable  class  of  people.  In  matters  of  politics  they  will 
very  often  come  right  out  and  work  for  the  best  man,  regardless  of 
one  side  or  the  other.  They  are  not  set  in  their  ways  because  he  hap- 
pens to  have  Mexican  blood  in  him.  I  have  seen  a  candidate  for  sheriff 
defeated  when  really,  had  it  been  a  vote  betAveen  the  Mexican  element 
and  the  American  element,  he  would  have  been  elected  by  a  large 
majority,  showing  you  that  the}^  are  really  good  citizens  and  not  all 
clannish. 

Mr.  KoDEY.  I  ran  against  a  full-blooded  Mexican. 

Mr.  Gay.  I  want  to  thank  you  for  permitting  me  to  be  heard. 

The  Chairman.  Not  at  all;  we  are  glad  to  have  heard  you 

STATEMENT  OF  COL.  IRA  M.  BOND. 

The  Chairman.  What  is  your  name,  please? 
Colonel  Bond.  Ira  M.  Bond. 
The  Chairman.  Where  are  you  from? 

Colonel  Bond.  St.  Louis,  Mo.,  originally.     From  there  I  went  to 
New  Mexico. 
The  Chairman.  How  long  ago? 
Colonel  Bond.  Thirty-two  years  ago. 
The  Chair3iL4N.  Where  do  you  live  now? 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  809 

Colonel  Bond.  I  am  livdng  temporarily  in  Washiuo-ton;  1  have  lived 
in  Santa  Fe,  Albuquerque,  and  southern  New  Mexico, 

The  Chairman.  How  lono-  have  you  been  here  in  Washing-ton  ? 

Colonel  Bond.  I  have  been  here  now  about  seven  years. 

The  Chairman.  What  is  your  occupation  in  Washington  ? 

Colonel  Bond.  I  am  a  correspondent. 

The  Chairman.  For  the  New  Mexican  papers? 

Colonel  Bond.  For  the  different  New  Mexican  papers,  Oklahoma 
papers,  and  other  papers  out  West. 

1  simply  desire  to  take  your  time  for  a  few  moments. 

I  will  say  that  when  I  went  out  there  some  thirty -two  years  ago  the 
people  as  a  rule  were  considered,  if  anything,  more  peaceable  and 
quiet  and  orderly,  and  not  only  that,  but  more  honest,  than  most  of 
the  people  in  various  sections  of  the  country.  That  was  long  before 
the  railroad  came  out  there.  It  was  then  a  rare  exception  to  find  any- 
one who  locked  their  doors  anywhere  in  the  town  in  which  we  lived. 
Persons  would  go  off"  and  leave  their  houses  sometimes  half  a  day  or 
all  day,  and  never  think  of  locking  the  doors.  Very  often  persons 
would  leave  their  stores  and  go  off'  across  the  street  some  distance,  two 
or  three  squares  away,  leaving  the  stores  open  and  never  think  of  an}^- 
thing  hap})ening  to  them  during  their  absence.  Sometimes  customers 
would  come  in  and  stand  there  ten  or  fifteen  minutes  until  the  clerk 
or  proprietor  came  back.  So  you  see  how  utterly  indifferent  they 
were  to  petty  thieving  or  anything  of  the  kind.  At  night,  universally, 
when  it  was  especially  hot,  persons  would  leave  all  their  doors  and 
windows  open,  and  would  frequently  sleep  out  on  the  porch  or  some 
place  like  that. 

After  the  railroads  came  into  the  country,  however,  people  would 
lock  their  doors  if  they  expected  to  be  gone  for  twenty  minutes  or 
half  an  hour. 

The  Chairman.  You  do  not  infer  from  that  that  the  railroads  were 
a  bad  thing  for  the  public  morality  of  the  Territory  ? 

Colonel  Bond.  No;  but  the  class  of  people  they  brought  along  with 
them  was  rather  bad.  And  I  will  say,  speaking  of  crimes,  that  three- 
fourths  of  the  crimes  committed  there  after  the  railroads  passed 
through  the  country  were  committed  by  those  who  came  in  after  the 
railroads  came,  and  not  by  the  natives.  There  was  probably  ujore 
crime  in  proportion  in  the  first  five  years  after  the  railroads  passed 
through  than  there  had  been  in  twenty-five  years  previous  to  that 
time. 

As  an  instance,  before  the  railroads  came  in  they  had  a  stage  line 
running  clear  across  the  Territory,  and  out  toward  Arizona.  It  was 
not  an  unusual  thing  for  a  bag  of  mail  to  be  lost  off'  of  the  coach,  and 
an  Indian  or  a  Mexican  would  discover  it  and  put  it  on  his  shoulder 
and  carry  it  probably  3  or  4  or  5  miles  to  the  post-office,  and  return  it. 

The  Chairman.  Do  they  still  do  that  since  the  railroads  have  been 
down  there? 

Colonel  Bond.  I  have  not  heard  of  any  case,  except  where  they 
would  come  in 

Senator  Dillingham.  Let  me  interrupt  you  just  at  that  point.  Is 
the  population  of  that  country  made  up  to  any  considerable  extent  of 
Indians? 

Colonel  Bond.  Mr.  Rodey  would  probably  know  about  that  more 
accurately  than  I. 

The  Chairman.  He  is  going  to  speak  later. 
H  s  B 24 


370  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Senator  Dillingham.  What  is  the  status  of  the  Indians  there? 

Colonel  Bond.  Why,  the}"  are  Pueblo  Indians,  peaceable  and  quiet 
and  orderly,  and  are  considered  some  of  the  best  citizens  of  the  Territory. 

Senator  Dillingham.  Are  they  citizens? 

Colonel  Bond.  They  were  pronounced  citizens  of  the  United  States 
by  the  district  judge  at  Albuquerque,  Judge  Johnson,  I  think,  some 
twenty-tive  je'dvs  ago,  although  they  do  not  exercise  the  right  of 
suffrage. 

Senator  Dillingham.  Then  there  are  something  like  12,000  of  them  'i 

Colonel  Bond.  eJust  a  ver^^  small  number. 

Senator  Dillingham.  It  is  12,206  according  to  the  table  handed  me 
by  Mr.  Rodey. 

Colonel  Bond.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman,  And  those,  3'ou  sa}',  have  been  pronounced  citizens? 

Colonel  Bond.  They  were  pronounced  citizens  by  Judge  Johnson, 
I  think,  twenty-live  years  ago:  but  they  do  not  exercise  the  right  of 
sufi'i'age  for  fear  that  if  thej?^  did  so  the}^  would  be  taxed.  Up  to  the 
present  time  they  have  not  been  taxed.  The  Government  does  not 
permit  them  to  be  taxed,  and  the}'  are  afraid  that  if  they  should  exer- 
cise the  right  of  suffrage  they  would  be  taxed;  and  they  prefer  not  to 
do  so. 

Senator  Dillinghaim.  Excuse  me  for  interrupting  you. 

Colonel  Bond.  Certainly.  They  are  very  orderly,  quiet,  peaceable 
citizens,  taking  care  of  themselves  and  having  very  little  trouble. 
They  have  their  own  minor  courts;  but  of  course  if  a  case  of  murder 
occurs  in  one  of  their  villages,  the  United  States  courts  take  possession 
of  it. 

Senator  Bard.  Do  they  intermarry  with  the  native  Mexicans? 

Colonel  Bond.  Not  very  much;  very  little.  They  keep  to  them- 
selves very  strictly  and  carefully.  Even  among  those  people  chastity 
is  one  of  the  very  highest  virtues.  Even  among  the  savage  Apaches, 
when  they  were  on  the  warpath,  and  a  woman  stepped  outside  of  her 
family  relations,  they  would  cut  off  her  nose,  or  cut  off'  her  ears,  or 
something  of  that  kind. 

Senator  Bate.  That  was  the  mode  of  punishment  for  that  offense, 
was  it  not  ? 

Colonel  Bond.  That  was  one  mode  of  punishment.  They  more  fre- 
quently kill  them  than  anything  else. 

Senator  Bate.  I  understand  when  a  woman  of  their  tribe  goes  astray 
they  mark  her  in  that  way. 

Colonel  Bond.  Yes,  sir;  it  was  done  among  the  Apaches  there,  even 
when  they  were  considered  savages.  Major  Llewellyn,  here,  at  one 
time  was  the  agent 

The  Chairman.  That  is  still  true,  is  it  not? 

Colonel  Bond.  In  some  cases ;  yes,  sir.     They  punish  it  very  severel}^. 

Now,  as  to  the  loyalty  of  the  people.  I  wish  to  say  that  they  had  been 
citizens  of  the  United  States  but  a  few  years  when  the  late  unpleasant- 
ness occurred,  and  they  were  universally  loyal  to  the  country,  although 
they  had  been  citizens  hardly  ten  years.  They  were  universally  loyal, 
and  it  was  a  very  rare  exception  that  anybody  from  that  Territory 
joined  the  Southern  cause. 

The  Chairman.  Did  they  furnish  a  regiment  to  the  Union  Army? 

Colonel  Bond.  They  raised  6.000  men,  although  at  that  time  their 
voting  population  svas  only  1-1,000.     Out  of  14,000  voters  they  raised 


NEW    STATEHOOD    HILL.  371 

6,000  men  who  joined  the  service,  and  not  only  were  prepared  to  tig'ht 
for  the  Union,  but  had  in  the  meantime  to  fight  three  or  four  savage 
bands  of  Indians. 

Now,  those  people  have  been  living  there  for  two  hundred  and  fifty 
years,  and  have  been  continually  fighting  the  wild,  savage  Indians,  and 
have  saved  that  countr}'  from  them;  and  I  should  think  they  w(ne 
entitled  to  some  consideration.  As  I  say,  they  not  onl}^  redeemed 
the  countr}"  from  the  Indians,  but  they  had  to  fight  for  it  very  severe l3\ 
Thousands  of  the  citizens  of  that  Territory  have  fought  in  these  con- 
tests with  the  Indians  and  have  kept  it  right  up  _year  after  year,  long 
after  they  belonged  to  the  United  States  Grovernment. 

Then,  in  the  civil  war,  I  am  sure  their  remarkable  showing  of  over 
6,000  men  enlisted  in  the  Arm}'  and  serving  in  the  field  out  of  a  voting 
population  ctf  14,000,  was  not  equaled  b}'  any  State  or  Territory  in 
the  Union. 

The  Chairman.  Do  3"ou  know  where  those  regiments  were  sta- 
tioned ( 

Colonel  Bond.  They  were  mostl}'^  stationed  there  in  the  Territory, 
to  protect  it.  Otherwise  New  Mexico  would  have  been  captured  by 
the  other  side  and  would  have  been  connected  with  the  Southern 
Confederacy;  and  that  would  have  made  quite  a  difference. 

The  Chaieman.  It  was  a  local  force  ? 

Colonel  Bond.  A  local  force,  yes,  sir;  and  they  had  their  different 
battles,  which  are  quite  historic.  There  is  now  a  ver}'  large  monu- 
ment erected  in  the  cit}'  of  Santa  Fe,  in  the  middle  of  the  plaza,  to  the 
dead  who  were  killed  in  those  battles  in  New  Mexico. 

The  Chaieman.  By  the  invading  force? 

Colonel  Bond.  By  the  invading  force;  yes,  sir.  The  Territory  was 
invaded  by  General  Sibley  and  others  at  that  time.  Thej^  afterwards 
met  their  defeat  in  what  is  called  the  battle  of  Glorieta. 

The  Chairman.  They  were  what  are  sometimes  called  "home-pro- 
tection" troops? 

Colonel  Bond.  Entirely  so.  In  the  late  Spanish  war  the  President 
called  for  troops,  and  they  immediately  asked  that  President  Roose- 
velt's entire  regiment  be  taken  from  New  Mexico;  and  they  were  told 
that  they  could  furnish  three  companies,  I  believe.  They  immediately 
formed  the  three  companies,  and  were  finallj^  allowed  to  form  four 
companies,  I  think.  Major  Llewellyn  was  captain  of  one  of  the  com- 
panies.    They  started  off',  and  went  to  San  Antonio,  Tex. 

The  Chairman.  Pardon  me,  but  ^s  the  hour  is  getting  late,  and 
Major  Llewelh'n  went  into  that  matter  quite  fully.  I  think  it  would  be 
simply  loading  up  the  record  to  go  into  it  further.  Possibly  you 
might  contribute  something  upon  another  point.  I  say  this  to  save 
time  and  save  encumbering  the  record,  since  that  subject  was  gone 
into  fully. 

Senator  Bate.  Let  me  ask  a  question  there;  I  am  very  much  inter- 
ested in  those  Indians.  I  understand  you  to  say  that  thev  have  been 
there  for  two  hundred  and  fifty  years.  Do  the}^  keep  up  the  history  of 
their  family  relations? 

Colonel  Bond.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Bate.  And  trace  them  back  to  that  period? 

Colonel  Bond.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Bate.  They  must  go  back  to  the  mound-builders,  or  some- 
thing like  that. 


372  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Colonel  Bond.  They  go  even  back  of  that.  I  think  the  records 
show  they  have  been  there  for  long-er  than  that.  There  is  a  church 
there  said  to  be  about  three  hundred  years  old. 

Senator  Bate.  They  call  them  the  Pueblo  Indians? 

Colonel  Bond.  The  Pueblo  Indians;  yes,  sir. 

Senator  Bate.  Was  that  their  ancient  name? 

Colonel  Bond.  That  was  after  Montezuma's  time.  Montezuma's 
time  was  prior  to  that.     When  he  came,  he  found  those  people  there. 

The  Chairman.  But  they  g'o  now  b}^  the  name  of  the  Pueblo  Indians  ? 

Colonel  Bond.  They  go  now  by  the  name  of  the  Pueblo  Indians; 
yes,  sir.  There  is  a  church  in  Santa  Fe  said  to  be  300  years  old;  and 
the  old  Pecos  Church,  1  think,  was  even  older  than  that.  That  has 
been  almost  destroyed;  it  is  very  old. 

Senator  Bate.  Is  that  one  of  the  old  mission  churches? 

Colonel  Bond.  It  is  one  of  those  old  mission  churches;  yes,  sir. 

The  press  of  the  Territory  almost  unanimously  and  universally  are 
for  statehood,  regardless  of  party.  That  shows  very  nearly  the  opin- 
ion of  the  people. 

The  Chairman.  You  say  "almost  unanimously."  What  do  you 
mean  by  "almost  unanimously?''     Do  you  mean  unanimouslj^ ? 

Colonel  Bond.  Well,  the  press  of  both  parties;  the  press  of  the 
entire  Territory. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  Colonel,  you  do  not  know  a  single  newspaper  in  New 
Mexico  that  is  against  it,  do  you  ? 

Colonel  Bond.  I  do  not  know  one  that  is  against  it.  The  fact  that 
the  Major  spoke  of  it  reminds  me  that  I  have  a  couple  of  papers  here 
that  carry  at  the  head  of  the  editorial  column  the  w^ords,  "New  Mexico 
demands  statehood  of  the  Fifty-seventh  Congress.  It  is  only  right 
and  just  that  New  Mexico  should  be  a  State." 

Nearly  all  the  newspapers  carry  that  heading.  You  can  see  that  it 
is  at  the  head  of  the  first  column  (producing  newspaper).  That  is  the 
Santa  Fe  New  Mexican.     Here  is  the  Albuquerque  Citizen. 

The  Chairman.  One  will  serve  as  a  sample,  I  think. 

Colonel  Bond.  They  nearly  all  carry  that  heading. 

At  Albuquerque,  which  is  probably  the  largest  city  in  the  Territory, 
at  the  election  more  than  a  year  ago,  owing  to  the  determination  to 
have  statehood,  both  parties  combined  and  said,  "We  will  have  no 
party  here  until  we  get  statehood;"  and  the  two  committees  of  each 
party  got  together  and  divided  the  city  offices,  giving  half  to  each 
party.     They  said,  "  We  will  have  no  politics  until  we  get  statehood." 

Senator  Dillingham.  Where  was  that? 

Colonel  Bond.  At  Albuquerque,  N.  Mex.,  the  largest  city  in  the 
Territory.  The  two  committees  got  together  and  simply  said,  "We 
will  have  no  politics  until  we  have  statehood;"  and  they  divided  the 
positions  just  half  and  half,  giving  half  to  the  Democrats  and  half  to 
the  Republicans,  and  ran  the  ticket  right  through. 

Something  has  been  said  as  to  the  character  of  the  New  Mexican 
people.  I  say  they  are  quiet,  orderly,  and  as  a  rule  more  honest  in 
proportion  than  the  common  class  of  people  or  the  lower  class  of  peo- 
ple in  any  State  of  the  Union.  We  have  no  strikes  out  there  or  any- 
thing of  that  kind.  The  people  are  very  industrious,  and  they  have 
been  so  for  three  hundred  years.  They  have  been  taking  care  of  them- 
selves, and  not  only  have  they  been  supporting  themselves,  but  they 
have  supported  the  Army  of  the  United  States  through  contracts. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    KILL.  373 

They  have,  of  course,  at  different  times  had  a  laro-e  number  of  troops 
out  there,  and  the  native  people,  the  New  Mexican  people  and  the 
Indian  people  together,  supplied  the  Arm}-  with  all  kinds  of  supplies. 
They  furnished  it  with  corn,  wheat,  flour,  grain,  hav,  and  everything 
of  that  kind,  as  much  as  it  needed  at  the  various  posts,  besides  support- 
ing themselves.  The  Pueblo  Indians  raise  fruit  and  everything  of 
that  kind.  They  take  very  good  care  of  themselves,  and  have  for  two 
hundred  and  fifty  years  within  our  knowledge;  and  we  do  not  know 
for  how  many  years  prior  to  that  time  Montezuma  and  his  people  had. 

As  to  the  native  people  being  clannish  or  something  of  that  kind,  I 
wish  to  say  that  whenever  the  Americans  had  one-third  of  the  voting 
population  in  one  of  the  counties  there  the}^  carried  the  county,  simply 
because  every  American  who  goes  down  there  has  two  or  three  or  four 
or  fiv^e  of  the  working  people  in  his  employ;  and  vvhen  it  comes  to  the 
time  of  election  he  will  say:  "John,  Tom",  or  Harry,  you  do  not  care 
very  much  how  j^ou  vote.  1  would  like  to  have  you  vote  1113'  wa}-." 
The  result  is  the  same  as  it  is  at  any  other  place;  so  that  when  the 
Americans  have  one-third  of  the  voting  population  they  generall}'  con- 
trol the  county. 

The  Chairman.  I  judge  from  what  you  said  about  the  morality  of 
the  people  that  money  is  never  used  in  elections  down,  there. 

Colonel  Bond.  It  is  in  some  cases;  yes,  sir.  It  was  in  this  case, 
where  only  one-third  of  the  population  was  American.  They  got  into 
a  pretty  close  corner  and  were  determined  to  carry  it  and  they  used 
some  money  there.     But,  as  I  say,  nearly  eveiy  American " 

The  Chairman.  You  do  not  mean  to  sa}"  that  the  natives  were  influ- 
enced b}"  money? 

Colonel  Bond.  They  were;  some  of  them  were  there,  as  they  are 
everywhere  else,  to  some  extent. 

Senator  Bard.  Are  there  man}^  professional  men,  educated  men, 
among  those  people? 

Colonel  Bond.  Not  very  many;  not  very  many.  We  have  some 
very  bright  men.  One  of  the  captains  in  Roosevelt's  Kough  Riders, 
Max  Noonan,  was  a  native.  He  was  one  of  the  very  bright  .young  men. 
He  spoke  both  languages  fluently.  He  was  very  frequently  interpre- 
ter in  the  legislature  and  in  the  courts. 

The  Chairman.  Are  there  an}^  Spanish  newspapers  published  there  ? 

Colonel  Bond.  Yes,  sir;  quite  a  number. 

The  Chairman.  How  many? 

Colonel  Bond.  I  think  twelve  or  fifteen  in  the  Territory. 

The  Chairman.  In  the  Spanish  language  ? 

Colonel  Bond.  In  the  Spanish  language  entirely,  yes,  sir;  probably 
twelve  or  fifteen. 

Senator  Bate.  How  many  newspapers  altogether  are  published 
there  in  the  Territoiy  ? 

Colonel  Bond.  I  think  there  are  something  like  sixty  or  sevent}'. 

The  Chairman.  Altogether? 

Colonel  Bond.  Altogether,  in  the  Territory;  and,  I  think,  ten  or 
twelve  of  them,  or  something  like  that,  are  Spanish. 

Mr.  RoDEY.  There  are  nearly  ninety  newspapers  altogether. 

Colonel  Bond.  Mr.  Rodey  tells  me  there  are  nearly  90.  They,  of 
course,  are  like  the  working  class  of  people  almost  anywhere,  but  they 
are  not  clannish,  as  some  other  classes  are. 

Some  people  mako  some  objections  on  religious  grounds.     I  have 


374  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

known  a  number  of  cases  there  where  Americans  would  say:  "Why, 
here  is  a  majority  of  Catholics  in  this  district,  and  they  will  elect  a 
Catholic,"  and  in  some  cases  they  would  say:  "Why,  they  will  elect 
a  Catholic  priest."  But  I  have  known  cases  where  a  Catholic  priest  has 
run  for  the  school  board  and  a  man  with  hardly  a  dollar  has  run 
against  him,  and  no  matter  whether  he  was  a  Republican  or  a  Democrat 
the  poor  man  would  be  elected  against  the  Catholic  priest,  simply 
because  the  people  would  sa}^  a  priest  had  no  business  to  interfere  in 
public-school  matters,  and  they  would  not  allow  it.  They  are  just  as 
positive  about  the  matter  as  anybod}^  could  wish.  The  opinion  which 
they  expressed  was  that  a  Catholic  priest  had  no  business  to  interfere 
with  school  matters.  I  have  seen  that  very  thing  happen  at  x\lbu- 
querque  and  other  places. 

I  suppose  within  thirty  years  there  have  been  three  or  four  times 
when  a  Catholic  priest  has  run  for  the  school  board,  and  the  poorest 
man  there  could  run  and  beat  him  ever}'  time,  no  matter  which  party 
he  belonged  to.  Mr.  Rodey  ran  against  one  of  the  strongest  and 
brightest  of  the  natives,  a  fine  talker  and  a  fine  orator,  yet  he  was 
elected  by  nearly  4,000  msijority.  Mr.  Rode3^''s  predecessor  was  a 
Mexican;  he  ran  against  an  American,  both  on  the  Republican  ticket, 
and  was  elected.  Prior  to  that  there  was  a  Democrat  elected,  because 
the  Republicans  were  divided  and  had  a  squabble,  and  the  ticket  they 
got  up  did  not  give  satisfaction,  and  the  Democrats  got  in.  But  for 
about  twenty-five  j^ears  the  Republicans  have  controlled  the  legislature 
and  the  president  of  the  senate,  or  what  we  call  the  council  there. 
The  president  of  the  council  is  J.  Francisco  Chavis,  who  has  held  that 
position  for  nearly  eighteen  years,  and  he  was  for  six  years  a  member 
of  Congress  previous  to  that  time.  He  was  in  Congress,  I  believe,  for 
six  }■  ears. 

I  do  not  care  to  take  up  your  time  any  further,  gentlemen.  I  thank 
you  for  your  kindness. 

STATEMENT  OF  A.  F.  CODINGTON,  ESa.,  OF  ALBUaUEEaUE,  N.  MEX. 

The  Chairman.  For  the  purpose  of  saving  your  own  time  and  that 
of  the  committee,  Mr.  Codington,  I  will  suggest  that  you  have  heard 
the  testimon3%  and  that  merely  cumulative  matters — that  is.  the  same 
matters  that  have  already  been  heard — will  not  enlighten  the  com- 
mittee.    Give  us  something  new. 

Mr.  Codington.  About  the  only  thing  I  wanted  to  talk  about 

Mr.  Rodey.  Tell  us  what  \^ou  "have  been  doing  for  the  last  few 
years. 

Mr.  Codington.  I  have  been  in  the  United  States  marshal's  oflice. 
Most  of  my  work  has  been  in  the  handling  of  Mexicans. 

The  Chairman.  What  is  your  name? 

Mr.  Codington.  A.  F.  Codington. 

The  Chairman.  Where  do  you  come  from  ? 

Mr.  Codington.  Albuquerque. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  live  in  Albuquerque? 

Mr.  Codington.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Where  did  you  come  from  originally? 

Mr.  Codington.  Kansas;  I  went  to  New  Mexico  in  1881. 

Mr.  Rodey.  He  was  brought  up  there.  He  is  my  brother-in-la-w 
and  my  secretary. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  375 

The  Chairman.  You  are  ]Mr.  Rodey's  secretary  ? 

Mr.  Codington.  Yes,  sir.  I  just  Avant  to  say  a  few  words  about  the 
Mexicans,  as  to  their  being'  a  very  peaceful  and  law-abiding-  class  of 
citizens. 

The  Chairman.  We  have  had  the  testimony  of  four  gentlemen  upon 
that  point,  and  1  think  anything  further  would  be  a  reiteration  of  wliat 
has  been  said.     What  have  you  that  is  new!' 

Mr.  Codington.  That  is  about  the  only  thing  I  wanted  to  speak 
about. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  you  see,  we  have  had  four  gentlemen  speak 
on  that  point,  and  there  is  no  question  about  it. 

Senator  Bate.  I  would  like  to  ask  Mr.  Codington  a  question. 

The  Chairman.  Certainly. 

Senator  Bate.  You  are  familiar  with  the  sentiments  of  the  people 
there,  are  you,  in  a  political  way? 

Mr.  Codington.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Bate,  Are  the  people  there  favorable  or  unfavorable  to 
immediate  admission  as  a  State? 

Mr.  Codington.  They  want  it,  and  they  want  it  very  badly. 

Senator  Bate.  Is  that  sentiment  only  on  the  part  of  a  majority,  or 
is  there  a  unanimity  about  it  among  all  the  people? 

Mr.  Codington.  They  are  pretty  much  of  a  unit  all  over  the  Terri- 
tory, I  might  say. 

Senator  Bate.  And  you  have  had  good  opportunities  to  judge? 

Mr.  Codington.  1  think  I  have  had  about  as  good  an  opportunity 
a-s  anyone  in  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico,  if  not  better.  I  have  trav- 
eled it  from  one  end  to  the  other  continuously  for  over  three  years. 

The  Chairman.  That  has  alwaj^s  been  the  case,  has  it  not? 

Mr.  Codington.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  In  all  these  Congresses  that  have  denied  these  peti- 
tions it  has  been  the  case  with  the  people,  has  it  not? 

Mr.  Codington.  W^hy,  of  course,  I  can  only  speak  back  for  four  or 
five  years. 

The  Chair:\l\n.  You  can  go  b}'-  history.  You  are  familiar  with  the 
history  of  the  Territory  ? 

Mr.  Codington.   Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  So  it  is  not  peculiar  to  the  present  time  ? 

Mr.  Codington.  Oh,  no;  they  have  wanted  it  right  along. 

The  Chairman.  And  as  a  matter  of  common  intelligence,  if  Cuba 
were  annexed,  you  know,  do  you  not,  that  there  would  be  an  imme- 
diate and  unanimous  demand  for  statehood  on  the  part  of  the  people? 

Mr.  Codington.  I  know  from  what  I  have  heard  and  from  what  I 
know  of  the  people  in  New  Mexico  that  they  would  feel  very  badh^  if 
Cuba  were  annexed  and  New  Mexico  were  not  taken  in  as  a  State. 

The  Chairman.  1  am  not  asking  you  that.  You  spoke  about  the 
people  unanimously  desiring  statehood. 

Mr.  Codington.  Yes;  sir. 

The  Chairman.  I  say  if  Cuba  were  annexed  the  Cubans  would  also 
unanimously  desire  statehood,  would  they  not? 

Mr.  Codington.  W^ell 

The  Chairman.  Have  you  any  doubt  about  that  ? 

Mr.  Codington.  I  should  not  think  they  would  have  any  reason  not 
to  want  it. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  have  any  doubt  about  that? 


376  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Mr.  Codington.  No;  I  have  none  whatever. 

Senator  Bate.  Have  j^ou  been  to  Cuba? 

Air.  Codington.  No,  sir;  I  have  not. 

Senator  Bate.  You  do  not  know  anj^thing  about  it? 

Mr.  Codington.  I  do  not  know  anything  about  it. 

Senator  Bate.  You  have  been  in  New  Mexico,  and  you  do  know  the 
sentiment  of  that  people? 

Mr.  Codington.  Yes,  sir;  I  know  it.     1  was  raised  in  New  Mexico. 

Senator  Bate.  Now,  do  you  think  the  fact  that  they  have  been 
denied  statehood  heretofore  has  lessened  their  interest  in  getting  it 
now? 

Mr.  Codington.  Wh}^,  no;  1  think  they  want  it  all  the  more. 

I  would  like  to  make  one  further  statement,  Senator,  with  your 
permission. 

The  Chairjvian.  Certainly. 

Mr.  Codington.  During'  the  war  with  Spain,  in  traveling  through 
these  Mexican  settlements  out  in  the  mountains,  in  some  towns  eight 
or  nine  out  of  every  ten  little  houses  that  I  would  go  by  would  have 
the  American  flag  flying  over  them. 

The  Chairman.  What  flag  would  you  expect  to  see? 

Mr.  Codington.  Well,  it  was  said  that  some  of  the  Mexicans  in  New 
Mexico  were  against  the  United  States  in  the  late  war.  I  just  want 
to  .show  that  they  were  patriotic  to  that  extent. 

The  Chairman.  You  mean  to  say  that  they  were  not  in  favor  of 
Spain  simply  because  they  were  Spanish  ? 

My.  Codington.  They  were  flying  the  American  flag. 

The  Chairman.  And  of  course  Cuba  was  not  in  favor  of  Spain, 
either,  nor  were  any  of  the  South  American  republics. 

ADDITIONAL   STATEMENT  OF   HON.  BEENAUD   S.   RODEY,  DELE- 
GATE FROM  THE  TERRITORY  OF  NEW  MEXICO. 

Mr.  RoDET.  I  wish  simph^  to  make  a  statement  as  to  the  water 
problem  in  New  Mexico. 

At  the  time  the  treaty  of  Guadalupe  Hidalgo  was  made  between 
Mexico  and  the  United  States  there  was  a  reservation  made  that 
neither  country  should  do  anything  with  the  Rio  Grande  where  it  was 
an  international  boundary  line,  which  would  only  be  outside  of  New 
Mexico,  between  Texas  and  the  Republic  of  Mexico.  At  such  points 
both  countries  were  to  have  something  to  say  about  it,  and  neither 
should  do  anj'thing  to  interfere  with  navigation. 

Time  went  on.  After  a  while  Colorado  began  to  use  a  great  deal 
of  water,  and  it  began  to  grow  less.  Timber  was  taken  oil'  in  Colo- 
rado and  northern  New  Mexico,  and  the  water  flowed  away  so  rapidly 
that  clear  from  central  New  Mexico  to  the  mouth  of  the  Concho,  where 
it  comes  in  from  old  Mexico,  for  many  months  of  the  3'ear  there  is 
not  a  drop  of  water  on  the  surface  of  the  Rio  Grande  as  you  see  it  on 
the  maps. 

Senator  Bate.  Now? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Even  now,  sir,  there  is  not  a  drop  of  water  for  500  miles 
to  the  south. 

Senator  Bard.  Although  there  used  to  bel 

Mr.  Rodey.  Although  there  used  to  be. 

Senator  Bate.  It  used  to  be  full,  did  it? 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  377 

Mr.  KoDEY.  Not  at  all  times.  I  have  beard  ver}'  old  residents  of 
New  Mexico  say  that  they  saw  it  dry  and  heard  from  their  parents  that 
it  was  dry  at  Los  Liinas,  20  miles  Ijelow  Albuquerque,  once  or  twice 
in  a  centur}'  last  past.     Their  foi-efathers  told  them  about  it. 

There  was  not  a  word  said  in  this  treaty  about  New  Mexico  or  its 
catchment  area. 

Al)out  ten  3^ears  ago  the  people  on  the  opposite  side  of  the  river 
from  El  Paso,  in  old  Mexico,  began  to  make  a  claim  against  our  Gov- 
ernment for  heavy  damages  for  lack  of  water.  They  tiled  a  claim  for  five 
millions  of  dollars,  and  now  it  is  up  to  nearly  fifty  millions.  Thej' 
presented,  through  the  State  Department,  a  claim  for  that  alleged 
damage  to  their  crops  on  the  south  side  of  the  river.  Attorney-General 
Harmon  held,  in  Twenty-first  Opinions  of  the  Attorney-General,  that 
our  catchment  area  under  that  treaty  or  other\vise  was  burdened  with 
no  servitude  in  favor  of  old  Mexico,  and  that  we  owed  them  nothing. 

The  Chairman.  Does  this  throw  light  on  the  statehood  proposition, 
Mr.  Rodey? 

Mr.  EoDEY.  It  does  on  the  irrigation  question. 

The  Chairman.  But  does  it  throw  any  light  on  the  statehood 
proposition  ? 

Mr.  lioDET.  Yes:  in  this  way- -I  will  wind  up  by  showing  the 
connection. 

The  Government  of  the  United  States  a  number  of  years  ago  had 
surveyed  a  number  of  reservoir  sites  in  New  Mexico,  and  invited  an}^ 
person  or  corporation  to  come  and  take  possession  of  those  reservoir 
sites  and  build  reservoirs  upon  them  as  a  commercial  enterprise.  A 
concern  known  as  the  Elephant  Buttes  Dam  Company  at  a  point  120 
miles  above  El  Paso,  at  Elephant  Buttes,  built  or  started  to  build  such 
a  reservoir.  After  they  had  considerable  work  done  and  a  large 
amount  of  money  spent  and  invested — I  forget  how  much — the  Gov- 
ernment came  in,  urged  on  by  Texas,  perhaps,  and  by  old  Mexico, 
and  enjoined  further  work  there,  on  the  ground  that  the  dam  would 
interfere  with  the  navigation  of  the  river  south  of  that  point,  when 
in  fact  the  river  is  not  and  never  has  been  navigable  there  or  for  hun- 
dreds of  miles  below  El  Paso  even. 

That  case  has  been  litigated  five  times  in  the  courts,  and  every  time, 
except  when  it  was  reversed  by  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United 
States  and  sent  back  to  the  Territory  for  further  evidence,  the  Terri- 
toiy  has  won. 

Senator  Bate.  That  is,  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico? 

Mr.  Rodey.  Yes,  sir;  the  Territory  of  New  Mexico. 

Senator  Bati:.  And  eveiy  single  trial  was  in  the  Territory,  was  it 
not? 

Mr.  Rodey.  No;  there  vrere  two  up  here  in  Washington.  We  did 
not  win  here.     It  was  reversed  on  technicalities. 

Senator  Bate.  I  mean  out  there  in  the  lower  courts. 

Mr.  Rodey.  Yes,  sir.  1  simply  wanted  to  show  3'ou  that  it  will  not 
onh'  ati'ect  New  Mexico,  but  several  other  States  in  the  Union  if  this 
case  is  decided  against  our  views.  There  is  a  suit  pending  now  in  the 
Supreme  Court  of  the  United  States  between  Nebraska  and  Colorado 
as  to  whether  or  not  an  up-river  State  can  divert  the  waters  as  against 
a  down-river  State.  That  question  afl'ectsus  in  New  Mexico;  because 
if  the  Government  can,  on  the  ground  that  the  Rio  Grande  is  a  navi- 
gable stream,  when  it  is  not,  prevent  us  from  diverting  or  damming 


378  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

it  above  in  New  ]\Iexico,  we  would  not  have  a  rig'ht,  no  matt(?r  how 
high  up  we  may  go,  to  divert  any  water  at  all.  However,  the  matter 
i.s  happih'  about  to  be  settled  between  Texas  and  New  Mexico,  which 
we  hope  will  soon  be  the  case. 

Senator  Bard.  You  would  be  in  a  bad  way  for  statehood  under 
those  circumstances,  would  you  not? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  If  we  become  a  State  we  will  assert  the  same  sovereign 
doctrine  to  manage  our  waters  that  every  other  State  asserts.  The 
Supreme  Court  of  the  United  States  will  decide  it,  however,  and  I  do 
net  think  it  necessarily  cuts  much  figure  in  the  statehood  question. 
If  there  is  such  a  thing  as  an  international  prior  appropriation  of 
water,  which  I  deny,  or  such  a  thing  as  an  interstate  prior  appropria- 
tion of  water,  the  courts  will  settle  it  by  saying  so. 

The  Chairman.  Statehood  would  not  set  it  aside,  would  it? 

Mr.  RoDEY.  No:  statehood  would  not  set  it  aside. 

The  Chairman.  1  agree  with  General  Bate,  Mr.  Rodey,  so  far  as  I 
am  concerned,  that  this  matter  hardly  touches  the  question  with  which 
we  are  dealing. 

Mr.  Rodey.  Well,  you  asked  about  it  to  some  extent. 

Senator  Bate.  You  were  the  attorney  in  that  case,  were  you  not? 

Mr.  Rodey.  No,  sir. 

Senator  Bate.  I  understood  you  to  say  so. 

Mr.  Rodey.  No,  sir.  I  appeared  for  the  Territory  before  the 
Attorney-General,  and  I  appeared  before  the  Committee  on  Foreign 
Relations  of  the  House  to  defeat  the  report  of  the  bill,  asserting  that 
doctrine  in  the  form  in  which  it  was  about  to  be  reported,  and  I 
appeared  before  the  Secretary  of  State.  However,  I  and  the  Repre- 
sentatives from  Texas  are  quite  friendly  over  it,  and  the  Santa  Fe 
Railroad  now  has  a  pi'oposition  to  straighten  out  the  whole  question. 

Senator  Bate.   But  you  are  a  lawyer  practicing  in  the  courts? 

Mr.  Rodey.  I  am,  yes,  sir;  but  I  was  not  of  counsel  in  this  case  in 
the  courts. 

Senator  Bate.  I  meant  in  this  case. 

Mr.  Rodey.  No,  sir. 

Senator  Bate.  Did  you  appear  in  the  courts  in  that  case  on  some 
occasion  ? 

Mr,  Rodey.  No,  sir;  but  of  course  1  have  knowledge  of  the  ques- 
tions involved. 

Senator  Bate.  1  understood  you  to  say  so. 

Mr.  Rodey.  I  never  did;  no,  sir.  I  appeared  before  the  Attorney- 
General  here  in  Washington,  and  the  Secretary  of  State,  as  Delegate 
from  New  Mexico. 

The  committee  thereupon  adjourned  until  Monday,  June  30,  1902, 
at  10.30  o'clock  a.  m. 


Committee  on  Territories,  United  States  Senate, 

Monday^  June  SO,  1903. 
The  committee  met  at  10.30  o'clock  a.  m. 

Present:  Senators  Beveridge  (chairman),  Bard,  Heitfeld,  and  Kean. 
Present  also,  Hon.  Dennis  T.  Flyun,  Delegate  from  the  Territory 
of  Oklahoma. 


■NTEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  37'^ 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Flynn,  if  you  are  ready  to  make  your  state- 
ment, we  will  be  glad  to  hear  you. 

STATEMENT  OF  HON.  DENNIS  T.  FLYNN,  DELEGATE  FEOM  THE 
TERRITORY  OF  OKLAHOMA. 

Mr.  Flynn.  Mr.  Chairnum  and  gentlemen  of  the  committee,  in 
presenting  the  claims  of  Oklahoma  for  statehood  before  this  com- 
mittee I  have  not  the  pleasure  of  repeating  all  that  mj^  predecessors 
have  said.  This  is  the  first  time  a  bill  for  the  admission  of  Oklahoma 
has  ever  been  considered  by  a  committee  of  the  Senate.  This  is  the 
first  instance  in  which  a  bill  providing  for  the  admission  of  the  Terri- 
tory of  Oklahoma  as  a  State  has  passed  either  branch  of  Congress. 
You  are  doul)tless  aware,  gentlemen,  of  the  action  taken  in  the  House. 

Oklahoma  is  unlike  the  other  Territories.  There  is  absoluteh'  noth- 
ing in  common  between  the  existing  conditions  in  Oklahoma  and  the 
conditions  in  the  other  two  Territories,  in  this:  That  in  Oklahoma, 
with  but  a  very  slight  exception,  the  public  land  is  absolutely  all 
agricultural  land.  In  the  other  Territories  the  question  of  irrigation 
must  neccessarily  be  solved  for  their  benefit. 

Oklahoma  has  not  had  the  long  existence  that  the  other  Territories 
have  had.  It  was  first  opened  to  settlement,  not  as  a  Territor}",  but 
as  a  piece  of  public  land,  by  proclamation  of  the  President,  on  April 
22,  1889.  On  that  date  3,000.000  acres  of  land,  purchased  from  the 
Creek  and  Seminole  Indians,  were  opened  up.  That  land  was  opened 
up  at  a  certain  hour — 12  o'clock  on  April  22,  1889. 

There,  for  the  first  time  in  the  history  of  our  Government,  we 
experienced  and  saw  what  is  known  as  the  Oklahoma  rush  for  Gov- 
ernment land.  The  people  rushed  to  that  land.  We  have  never 
needed  to  send  forth  any  announcements  through  the  States,  or  to 
advertise  the  vacant  public  lands  that  we  had,  to  secure  immigration 
from  Eastern  States.  Having  lived  in  that  section  for  twent}^  years, 
I  can  speak  from  experience. 

That  was,  as  I  say,  the  opening  of  land  known  as  Oklahoma. 
Within  an  hour  after  the  time  set  in  the  President's  proclamation  for 
the  opening  of  the  land,  there  were  not  only  settlers  on  every  piece 
of  land,  but  in  a  great  many  instances  the}'  settled  on  the  land  on 
which  nobody  was  permitted  to  locate.  Nobody  was  permitted  to 
locate  on  any  land  except  the  property  within  the  boundaries.  We 
had  a  great  deal  of  litigation  afterwards,  and  in  fact  it  is  not  all  ended 
yet.  One  charge  that  was  made  was  that  some  people  had  settled  at 
12  o'clock  the  day  before  the  time  specified  in  the  President's  procla- 
mation. 

Be  that  as  it  may,  Congress  in  opening  that  land  failed  to  provide 
any  law  for  its  government.  We  were  not  attached  to  any  existing 
jurisdiction,  and  the  70,000  people  who  ran  into  the  countiy  then 
known  as  Oklahoma  were  without  any  law  from  the  22d  daj^  of  April, 
1889,  to  the  1st  day  of  jMay,  1890,  when  Congress  passed  an  act  organ- 
izing the  Territory  of  Oklahoma.  During  that  twelve  months — it  was 
more  than  twelve  months  before  we  succeeded  in  having  a  government 
organized — we  had  no  strife,  and  no  trouble  of  an}'  kind  or  character. 
I  happen  to  have  been  fortunate  enough  to  have  been  elected  presi- 
dent by  the  people  at  a  convention  then  held  for  the  purpose  of  sub- 


380  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

mitting-  a  constitution  to  the  inhabitants  of  that  countiy,  and  drafting 
a  code  of  laws,  which  were  submitted  to  the  people  for  their  ratifica- 
tion. These  laws  were  ratified,  and  we  proceeded  to  set  up  a  govern- 
ment of  our  own,  without  an^^  governor  or  any  Territorial  officers,  but 
with  courts,  so  that  order  might  be  maintained. 

The  Chairman.  Allow  me  to  interrupt  you,  Mr.  Flynn.  I  will  have 
to  ask  you  to  excuse  me  for  a  short  while,  gentlemen.  I  am  called 
away  by  another  committee,  but  I  will  return  in  a  few  minutes. 

Senator  Bard  thereupon  took  the  chair. 

Mr.  Flynn.  As  I  was  saying,  the  people  ratified  the  constitution 
adopted  by  a  convention  consisting  of  members  elected  by  themselves. 
The  laws  were  placed  in  force,  and  we  governed  ourselves  until  Con- 
gress, in  its  kindness,  in  May,  1890,  provided  for  a  Territorial  form  of 
government.  Territorial  officers  were  then  appointed.  Shortly  after 
that  (Congress  passed  an  act  opening  some  additional  Indian  reserva- 
tions adjoining  Oklahoma — the  reservations  of  the  Iowa,  Potawatomi, 
and  Sac  and  Fox  Indians. 

They,  also,  were  opened  up  with  a  rush.  The  policy  or  method  of 
opening  up  the  pul>lic  lands  changed  with  Oklahoma.  In  the  opening 
up  of  every  piece  of  land  in  Oklahoma,  with  the  exception  of  such 
land  as  were  opened  last  August,  the  President  specified  a  certain  hour 
when  the  people  should  go  upon  those  lands;  but  the  act  provided  that 
the}'  should  be  forever  disqualified  and  become  "sooners"  if  they 
went  on  before  that  time. 

Senator  Kean.  What  is  that  word? 

Mr.  Flynn.  "Sooners."  A  new  word  was  coined  for  the  English 
language  in  Oklahoma  at  that  time.  Those  lands  were  opened  and 
settled  within  an  hour  after  the  proclamation  was  issued  permitting 
settlement. 

Following  that  Congress  ratified  a  treaty  with  the  Cheyenne  and 
Arapabo  Indians  and  opened  about  4,000,000  acres  in  the  western  part 
of  the  Territory.  That  was  settled  with  a  rush,  but  not  nearly  as 
rapidly  as  the  other  lands  were,  because  it  was  presumed  that  it  was 
within  the  semiarid  region,  which  time  has  proven  was  not  so. 

In  addition  to  those  lands  there  had  been  in  the  United  States,  with 
no  other  title  than  "No  Man's  Land,"  a  strip  of  country  about  37i 
miles  wide  by  167  miles  long,  which  skirted  the  southern  border  of 
Kansas  to  New  Mexico  on  the  west,  and  which  never  had  a  govern- 
ment of  any  kind.  Congress  attached  that  piece  of  land  to  the  Terri- 
tory of  Oklahoma,  and  it  is  known  now  as  Beaver  County. 

Following  the  opening  of  the  Che3^enne  and  Arapaho  reservations. 
Congress  treated  with  the  Cherokee  Nation  of  Indians  for  what  was 
known  as  the  Cherokee  Strip,  a  piece  of  land  about  90  miles  wide  and 
about  200  miles  long,  extending  along  the  border  of  southern  Kansas. 
That  was  opened  with  a  rush. 

Following  that  the  decision  of  the  Supreme  Court  of  the  United 
States  added  what  had  been  Greer  County,  Tex.,  to  Oklahoma,  giving 
us  an  additional  million  and  a  half  acres  of  land. 

We  remained  then  about  as  we  were  until  last  year,  when  a  treaty 
was  ratified  opening  the  Fort  Hall  Reservation  in  Idaho,  and  contain- 
ing a  provision  also  for  the  opening  of  the  Kiowa-Comanche- Apache- 
Wichita  Reservation  in  south Avestern  Oklahoma. 

There  are  still  within  the  boundaries  of  Oklahoma  about  2,000,000 
acres  of  Indian  reservation  not  j'et  opened  up  to  settlement.     They 


NEW    STATEHOOD    KILL.  381 

lie  in  the  northeast  part  of  the  Territory,  consisting  of  the  Osage  Res- 
ervation, and,  along-  the  line  of  the  Santa  Fe  Railroad,  the  Otoe,  Mis- 
souri, and  Ponca  reservations.  Of  course,  it  is  only  a  question  of 
time  when  those  lands  will  also  be  opened.  The  area  embraced  to-day 
within  the  geographical  boundaries  of  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma  con- 
sists of  39,000  and  some  odd  square  miles.  The  present  size  of  the 
Territory  is  about  that  of  the  State  of  Ohio,  and  larger  than  that  of 
the  State  of  Indiana. 

Now,  coming  as  we  do  for  the  first  time  and  asking  for  admission  as 
a  State,  we  are  naturally  confronted  with  this  question  :  ""What  have 
you  that  would  entitle  you  to  statehood?" 

I  presume  it  will  be  admitted  by  the  committee,  and  by  everybody 
else,  that  it  was  intended  by  the  framers  of  our  Government  that  a 
Territorial  form  of  government  within  the  boundaries  of  the  United 
States  should  continue  to  exist  only  long  enough  to  prove  to  the  satis- 
faction of  the  law-making  power  that  the  people  who  had  settled  on 
that  land  or  in  that  area  were  capable  of  supporting  themselves  and 
maintaining  a  government  of  their  own.  It  has  been  the  accepted 
polic}^  of  all  parties  and  of  all  statesmen  that  a  Territorial  form  of  gov- 
ernment should  only  exist  until  the  people  who  had  settled  were  pre- 
pared to  support  a  government  of  their  own  without  the  aid  and 
assistance  of  the  Federal  Government.  I  need  only  cite  one  or  two 
instances  which  will,  I  think,  satisfy  the  committee  that  as  to  that 
proposition  there  can  be  no  dispute. 

Mr.  Harrison,  a  man  whose  authority  will  unquestionably  be  taken 
as. good  by  members  of  my  party,  in  maldng  a  report  on  the  question 
of  statehood  (Senate  Report  No.  15,  first  session  of  the  Forty-ninth 
Congress,  dealing  with  the  question  of  Territorial  admission),  said: 

"Territorial  governments  were  always  regarded  as  formative  and 
temporary,  to  be  superseded  by  State  governments  as  soon  as  the  neces- 
sary conditions  existed." 

Senator  Piatt,  of  Connecticut,  in  reporting  in  the  Fifty -first  Con.- 
gress  the  l)ill  for  the  admission  of  Wyoming,  which  is,  1  think,  a  good 
and  creditable  State — a  State  having  to-day  two  members  in  the  Senate 
and  one  on  the  floor  of  the  House  of  Representatives,  representing  a 
population  that  is  not  as  numerous,  if  the  committee  will  pardon  me, 
as  our  school  children  in  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma — said: 

''The  Territorial  system  was  adopted  onl}^  as  a  matter  of  necessity, 
in  order  that  there  might  be  some  government  in  an  undeveloped  and 
sparsely  settled  region.  Wherever  settlement  and  development  make 
it  possible  for  the  people  to  sustain  a  State  government  according  to 
the  principles  of  the  Federal  Constitution,  the  Territorial  government 
should  be  abandoned  and  the  privileges  of  State  citizenship  conferred 
upon  its  people. " 

So  I  take  it  for  granted  that  if  we  can  show  the  Territory  of  Okla- 
homa is  now  in  such  a  condition  that  its  people  are  able  to  support  a 
government,  and  that  in  numbers  they  equal  at  least  some  of  the 
States,  there  should  then  l)e  no  objection  to  its  admission  into  the 
Union  of  States. 

I  say  now,  and  I  say  it  with  pride,  that  there  are  to-day  within 
the  l)oundaries  of  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma  200,000  more  people 
than  were  ever  within  the  boundaries  of  any  Territor}^  when  it  was 
admitted  into  the  union  of  States. 

Senator  Kean.  Is  that  according  to  the  census? 


382  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

Mr.  Flynn.  No,  sir.  The  census  shows  398,000.  In  round  num- 
bers there  were  400,000  people  in  June,  1900,  but  you  must  bear  with 
me  when  I  call  your  attention  to  the  fact  that  no  census  of  the  Terri- 
tory of  Oklahoma  could  ever  have  been  accurate.  Since  the  census 
was  taken  in  June,  1900,  about  5,000,000  acres  of  new  lands  have  been 
thrown  open  to  homestead  settlement. 

Another  change  in  the  polic}^  of  opening  the  lands  was  inaugurated 
then — the  most  successful  which  the  Government  has  ever  made  and  a 
credit  to  the  Administration  opening  it  and  one  which  I  hope  will  al  wavs 
be  pursued  in  the  future — when  it  was  provided  that,  in  fairness  to  all, 
registration  should  take  place.  While  there  were  about  13,000  quarter 
sections  of  land  subject  to  homestead  entry,  70,000  American  citizens 
registered  and  signified  their  desire  to  make  homestead  settlement 
upon  them.  The  census,  I  believe,  was,  in  round  numbers,  400,000. 
After  that,  and  up  to  the  time  of  the  issuance  of  the  last  report  of 
the  governor  of  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma,  the  census  taken  by  the 
Territory  a  j^ear  after  the  Government  census  showed  that  in  old 
Oklahoma,  the  country  enumerated  by  the  census,  the  population  had 
increased  40,000,  though  after  that  the  settlers  of  these  three  enor- 
mous counties  opened  up  in  the  new  country  took  about  4,000.000  acres 
of  land,  and  cut  it  into  three  parts  or  counties.  I  say,  without  fear  of 
contradiction,  that  there  are  in  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma,  to-daj'  over 
.550,000  bona  fide  citizens. 

Senator  Bard.  Exclusive  of  Indians? 

Mr.  Flynn.  The  Indians  cut  ver}"  little  figure;  there  are  only  12,000 
of  them. 

I  wish  to  call  the  attention  of  the  committee  to  the  census  report 
from  Pottawatomie  County,  which  is  one  of  the  old  counties,  showing 
that  within  the  last  twelve  months  the  population  of  that  county  has 
increased  over  12,000. 

Oklahoma  is  not  like  any  other  comitr}"  that  was  ever  opened  up  to 
settlement.  There  is  not  to-dav,  within  the  boundaries  of  the  United 
States,  any  land  that  will  produce  the  same  crops  as  will  the  Territory 
of  Oklahoma,  all  on  the  same  land.  We  have  there  the  blending  of 
the  North  and  of  the  South.  The  people  come  from  all  sections  of  the 
Union.  We  have  less  illiteracy  in  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma  than 
there  is  in  any  other  State  or  Territory  in  the  Union.  A  foreigner  in 
the  Territory  is  almost  an  unknown  quantity.  We  have  some  of  them 
and  they  are  good  citizens,  but  they  constitute  less  than  5  per  cent  of 
our  population. 

The  settlement  of  Oklahoma  has  demonstrated  that  it  is  the  Amer- 
ican boy  who  has  gone  to  the  front,  and  who,  realizing  that  his  patri- 
mony, consisting  of  the  public  lands  of  the  United  States,  is  about 
exhausted,  has  made  up  his  mind  that  he  will  make  a  home  on  the  land 
his  fathers  gave  to  him; 

The  crops  in  Oklahoma  Territory  are  very  diversified.  In  any  part 
of  Oklahoma  Territory  you  can,  on  the  same  piece  of  land,  raise  cotton, 
corn,  wheat,  oats,  castor  beans,  watermelons,  peanuts;  in  fact  any 
crop,  as  a  rule,  that  can  ))e  raised  in  the  North  or  in  the  South,  with 
the  exception  of  the  trojiical  fruits. 

It  is  unfair  to  class  Oklahoma  as  you  would  any  other  Territory 
that  has  ever  been  admitted  to  the  Union.  There  never  was  another 
case  where  so  many  American  citizens,  passing  over  an  imaginary  line 
and  going  within  the  boundaries  of  a  so-called  Territorv,  were  deprived 
of  the  rioht  of  American  citizenship. 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  383 

Some  may  say;  "  Well,  you  are  getting  along  very  nicely,  what  do 
you  want  with  .statehood  /  Why  do  you  want  statehood  among  the 
"States  where  you  do  not  reside  V 

The  American  boy  has  been  educated  to  believe  that  there  is  no  limit 
to  the  possibilities  he  may  attain.  The  people  in  the  Territory  can 
not  have  a  ^'oice  in  the  selection  of  their  officers.  They  have  no  right 
to  cast  the  1)allot  that  every  American  takes  pride  in  for  the,Cliief 
Executive  of  this  nation. 

We  in  Oklahoma  are  not  complaining  about  the  carpetbag  rule. 
We  have  not  been  bothered  nuich  with  that.  If  occasionally  an  out- 
side man  was  sent  there,  it  has  been  the  exception  and  not  the  rule. 
We  have  good  officials;  but  we  contend  that  we  would  have  equally  as 
good  officials  if  the  people  themselves  had  the  right  to  select  them. 

Now,  no  question  can  be  raised  against  us  with  reference  to  our  size. 
As  I  say,  we  are  about  the  size  of  the  State  of  Ohio  or  of  Kentucky. 

Then  would  the  question  be  raised  on  us  as  to  population?  If  so, 
New  Hampshire,  Vermont.  Delaware.  Florida,  Wyoming,  Kentucky, 
Montana,  Nevada,  Idaho,  Oregon,  North  and  South  Dakota,  and  Wash- 
ington are  also  disqualified. 

Senator  Kean.  But  3^0 u  would  not  present  Nevada  as  an  instance  at 
the  present  time,  would  you? 

Mr.  Flynn.  It  happens  to  be  in  the  pot.  J  am  merely  naming 
States  that  are  now  in  the  Union.  We  have  more  people  in  some  of 
my  counties  than  there  are  in  the  entire  State  of  Nevada. 

Senator  Kean.  Nevacla  is  not  applying  for  admission  as  a  State. 

Mr.  Flynn.  I  know  she  is  not;  but  if  the  question  of  population  is 
raised,  if  it  is  said  that  we  have  not  people  enough,  then  I  say  you 
should  disqualify  these  States  that  I  have  named.^ 

Senator  Keax.  You  know  we  can  not  disqualify  a  State. 

Mr.  Flynn.  Exactly.  I  would  have  no  man  disqualify  anything 
that  is  permitted  or  authorized  under  the  Constitution  of  the  V  nited 
States.  Senator  Piatt,  of  Connecticut,  a  very  close  personal  friend  of 
mine,  says — and  I  am  willing  to  take  him  at  his  word  when  he  says 
it.  even  from  New  England— that  a  Territorial  form  of  government  is 
only  temporary,  and  that  it  was  only  initiated  for  the  purpose  of  pro- 
viding a  government  until  the  people  in  the  various  localities  are 
strong  enough  to  support  and  protect,  themselves.  Will  anybody  deny 
that  a  Territory  having  more  people  to-day  than  ten  of  the  States  in' 
the  Union  is  able  to  protect  and  support  itself? 

Now,  the  proposition  comes  up — and  I  think  it  is  unworthy  of  con- 
sideration— that  if  Oklahoma  is  admitted  to  statehood  it  will  be  liable 
to  unsettle  the  equilibrium  of  the  United  States  Senate.  Nobody  has 
any  more  respect  for  the  United  States  Senate  than  I  have.  I  believe 
that  its  members  are  honorable  and  good  citizens;  but  I  deny  that  the 
United  States  Senate  is  greater  than  the  Constitution  of  the  United 
States.  The  Constitution  of  the  United  States  provides  for  the  admis- 
sion of  States.  It  is.  of  course,  true  that  the  Senate  and  the  House 
are  the  judges  as  to  the  qualitications  of  the  Territories;  but.  taking 
the  facts  and  figures  as  they  are,  who  can  deny  the  justice  of  the  claim 
of  the  people  of  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma  for  its  admission? 

Somebody  may  say:  "Well,  you  have  not  sufficient  wealth."  IMr. 
Chairman,  we  have  more  wealth  than  was  possessed  by  an}'  State 
when  it  was  admitted.  The  assessment  returns  from  the  Territory  of 
Oklahoma  during  the  last  year,  returned  by  the  local  assessors,  showed 
a  little  over  |G0, 000,000.'   The  returns  submitted  on  the  1st  day  of 


384  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

June  of  this  your  show  an  increase  of  !^15, 000,000,  making  a  returned 
assessment  of  «575, 000,000  at  this  time.  NobocW  will  contend  for  a 
moment  that  the  assessment  as  made  by  the  assessors  throughout  the 
various  counties,  not  only  in  Oklahoma,  but  in  any  State  in  the 
Union,  is  a  correct  indication  of  the  wealth  of  the  community.  • 
Nobody  in  the  Territory  who  is  familiar  with  the  facts  will  question 
that  we  have  flSOO, 000,000  of  taxable  property.  If  we  have  not  that 
much  we  have  not  a  dollar's  worth. 

But,  gentlemen,  there  has  been  a  precedent.  Upon  what  principle 
has  Congress  based  its  action  in  the  pasti  When  Arkansas  was 
admitted  they  had  $19,000,000  of  taxable  property;  Alabama  had 
$21,000,000:  "Missouri,  $22,0000,000;  Florida,  $21,000,000;  Iowa, 
$24,000,000;  California,  $22,000,000;  Oregon,  $29,000,000;  Kansas, 
$35,000,000;  Nevada,  $30,000;  Idaho,  $26,000,000;  and  Wyoming, 
$23,000,000. 

I  think  those  are  the  figures  as  returned  by  the  assessors.  Okla- 
homa has  to-da}^  about  three  times  the  amount  of  taxable  property 
returned  in  that  assessment. 

Senator  Kean.  That  would  be  the  assessment  of  the  States  when 
they  were  admitted. 

Mr.  Flynn.  That  is  what  I  am  giving  you. 

Senator  Kean.  But  should  you  not  give  a  statement  of  the  assess- 
ments of  the  existing  States  at  this  time?  If  you  want  to  make  a  com- 
parison you  should  do  it  in  that  way,  I  think. 

Mr.  Flynn.  I  do  not  know  how  that  would  make  a  comparison.  I 
am  reading  from  the  assessments  of  these  States  when  they  were 
admitted,  and  give  Oklahoma's  as  it  is  now  applying  for  admission. 

Senator  Kean.  You  are  reading  the  wealth  of  those  States  at  the 
time  they  were  admitted.  Why  should  you  not  give  the  wealth  of  the 
existing  "states,  to-day^  What"  I  am  getting  at  is  that  $1,000  in  1846 
was  a  great  deal  more  money  than  it  is  to-day. 

Mr.  Flynn.  Certainl}^ 

Senator  Kean.  That  is  what  I  am  getting  at. 

Mr.  Flynn.  I  think  that  is  an  unfair  comparison.  It  is  unfair  to 
take  New  York's  assessment  of  to  day  and  compare  that  with  the 
assessment  of  the  Territory  of  Oklahoiiia,  v/hich  has  only  been  organ- 
ized and  in  existence  for  twelve  or  thirteen  years.  But  I  think  it  is 
pertinent  to  compare  the  assessment  returns  of  Oklahoma  with  the 
assessment  returns  of  the  various  States  when  they  were  admitted. 

Senator  Heitfeld.  What  would  it  cost  to  run  a  State  government 
in  Oklahoma? 

Mr.  Flynn.  It  is  pretty  hard  to  tell.  We  now  pay  all  the  expenses 
of  government  with  the  exception  of  the  few  Federal  office-holders, 
who  are  appointed.  The  only  difference  in  our  taxation  would  be  the 
salary  of  the  governor,  a  secretary,  and  seven  judges.  We  have  more 
judges  than  any  Territory  ever  had.  })ecause  of  the  necessities  of  the 
case.  We  would  have  to  have  a  governor,  a  secretary,  and  many 
judges.  That  is  all  the  difference  there  would  be  as  to  salaries,  and 
the  people  of  Oklahoma  would  gladly  pay  this  or  more. 

Another  thing  that  should  bo  con'sidered  is  the  financial  status  of 
the  Territory.     The  entire  indebtedness  of  the  Territory  is  $166,000. 

Senator  Kean.  As  I  understand,  you  have  no  bonds? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Oh,  yes;  we  have  $48,000  in  bonds. 

Senator  Kean.  And  the  rest  in  warrants? 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  385 

Mr.  Flynn.  Yes;  but  we  have  about  ^?>G0,000  cash  with  which  to 
redeem  them,  so  it  would  be  fair  to  say  that  there  is  practically  no 
indebtedness  hanging  over  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma.  With  refer- 
ence to  that  it  is  only  fair  to  come  East  where  our  securities  are 
handled,  and  1  think  perhaps  the  Senator  himself  is  familiar  with  one 
of  the  companies  I  am  going  to  quote — the  Union  Central  Life  Insur- 
ance Compauy. 

Senator  Kean.  Where  does  that  company  exist? 

Mr.  Flynn.  In  New  York. 

Senator  Kean    The  Union  Central  Life  Insurance  Company? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Yes;  One  of  the  agents  of  that  company  made  the 
statement  which  I  was  about  to  read.  They  handled  some  of  our  secur- 
ities. 

Senator  Kean.  I  do  not  know  them. 

Mr.  Flynn.  Do  you  know  Sheperd  &  Co.,  of  New  York? 

Senator  Kean.  Yes. 

Mr.  Flynn.  They  say,  reporting  on  Oklahoma: 

"  We  have  handled  more  than  half  a  million  dollars  of  the  bonds 
issued  by  the  Territor}^  of  Oklahoma,  by  its  counties,  cities,  and  school 
districts.  Our  experience  with  the  securities  has  been  eminently  sat- 
isfactory. Payments  of  interest  and  principal  have  been  regularly 
made,  and  at  the  present  time  there  is  not  a  dollar  of  interest  in  default 
on  any  Oklahoma  securities  that  we  have  ever  handled." 

I  take  this  quotation  from  the  governor's  report.  It  is  contained  in 
it  speech  which  I  made  before  the  House  of  Representatives,  a  cop}^  of 
wliich  is  before  you,  gentlemen. 

As  1  say,  there  is  virtually  no  indebtedness  hanging  over  the  Terri- 
tory of  Oklahoma,  The  question  comes  up,  then,  as  to  whether  or 
not  we  can  support  a  government.  Our  securities  sell  on  the  market 
to-day  at  a  premium  and  at  a  lower  rate  of  interest  than  have  those  of 
any  Territory  since  there  has  been  a  Territorial  form  of  government. 

At  this  point  the  chairman  reentered  the  room  and  took  the  chair. 

Mr.  Flynn.  The  municipal  bonds  of  the  cities  of  the  Territory  are 
ordinarily  issued  at  a  rate  of  interest  bearing  -1^  per  cent,  and  usually 
sell  at  a  premium;  so  that  perhaps  there  would  not  be  the  advantage 
to  us  in  entering  to  statehood  that  there  would  be  to  some  other  sec- 
tions of  the  country.  But  we  present  this  as  our  case:  Here  is  a  com- 
munity of  American-born  citizens,  all  of  whom  over  the  age  of  14  3^ears 
have  resided  in  some  State  and  have  had  the  privilege  of  voting  and 
electing  their  own  officers,  as  well  as  helping  to  decide  who  shall  be 
the  Chief  Executive  of  the  Union.  There  are  in  Oklahoma  representa- 
tive men  from  the  North  and  from  the  South.  With  all  the  crops  that 
are  there,  with  all  the  securities  that  the}^  have,  with  all  their  wealth, 
with  2,500  little  district  schoolhouses  scattered  all  over  their  country, 
with  the  telephone  and  telegraph  in  almost  every  city  in  the  Territory, 
with  railway  facilities  to  almost  ever}^  farmer's  door,  why  should  these 
men,  because  they  have  crossed  this  imaginary  line,  be  deprived  of  the 
right  which  they  had  and  enjoyed  in  the  States  from  which  they  came  i 

The  Chairman.  How  many  inhabitants  have  you  in  Oklahoma^ 

Mr.  Flynn.  We  have  at  least  550,000  people. 

The  Chairman.  Are  those  people  mostly  farmers?  Are  they  at- 
tached to  the  soil?     That  is  what  I  mean. 

Mr.  Flynn.  They  are;  except  those  who  live  in  the  towns.  We 
have  no  camps  in  Oklahoma.     Our  population  is  permanent, 

h  s  b 25 


386  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

The  Chairman.  I  mean  to  say,  the  general  occupation  is  farming? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Agriculture  is  the  general  occupation. 
'  The  Chairman.  There  are  natural  streams  there,  and  the  rahifall  is 
suitable  for  farming,  is  it? 

Mr.  Flynn.  I  was  saying  before  you  came  in,  in  relation  to  the 
opening  of  the  Cheyenne  and  Arapahoe  Reservation,  that  there  was 
not  as  great  a  rush  as  there  had  been  at  the  opening  of  the  other 
reservation  in  1892,  because  it  was  presumed  that  it  was  in  the  semi- 
arid  belt,  but  time  has  proven  it  to  be  good  farming  land. 

The  Chairman.  Did  the  bill  which  you  introduced  in  the  House 
providing  for  the  admission  of  Oklahoma  throw  lines  around  the 
Indian  Territory,  with  a  provision  for  the  incorporation  of  the  Indian 
Territory  at  a  future  time  as  a  portion  of  the  State? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Not  exactly  in  that  way.  It  does  not  throw  boundary 
lines  around  it.  The  bill  provides  for  the  admission  of  Oklahoma,  and 
provides  that  the  constitutional  convention  of  the  State  of  Oklahoma 
shall  by  ordinance  irrevocalily  surrender  to  Congi-ess,  giving  it  the 
power  to  add  from  time  to  time,  or  at  any  time,  all  or  any  of  the 
Indian  Territory. 

The  Chairman.  How  many  people  are  there  in  the  Indian  Territory? 

Mr.  Flynn.  I  judge  that  there  are  very  nearly  as  many  people  there 
as  there  are  in  Oklahoma.  The  census  gave  them  about  392,000 
people. 

The  Chairman.  How  many  Indians  are  there  there? 

Mr.  Flynn.  There  were  about  80,000  Indians  returned  under  the 
census. 

The  Chairman.  About  320,000  whites  and  80,000  Indians? 

Mr.  Flynn.  That  is  what  the  census  returns  indicate;  but  the  Indian 
business  down  there  is  largely  a  fake. 

The  Chairman.  But  that  is  the  population  in  general? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Yes;  but  there  are  not  many  Indians;  they  are  just  as 
white  as  you  and  I,  but  called  Indians.  It  is  valuable  now  to  be  called 
an  Indian  down  there,  because  you  get  the  "head  right." 

The  Chairman.  How  manj^  Indians  are  there  in  Oklahoma? 

Mr.  Flynn,  There  are  about  12,000  Indians  in  Oklahoma.  They 
are  Indians,  too.  There  is  no  question  about  that.  We  have  in  Okla- 
homa more  blanket  Indians  by  far  than  there  are  in  the  Indian  Terri- 
toiy.  They  are  residing  upon  their  allotments,  or  are  presumed  to 
be,  if  they  can  find  them. 

The  Chairman.  Do  not  let  me  interrupt  you  further.  I  merel}" 
wanted  to  satisfy  m3^self  as  to  whether  the  400,000  inhabitants  you 
mentioned  included  the  Indians. 

Mr.  Flynn.  They  are  included  there. 

The  Chairman.  What  is  the  fact  about  the  additional  immigration 
there  ? 

Mr.  Flynn.  I  said  to  the  committee  a  while  ago  that  I  had  looked 
at  the  enumerators'  report  for  Pottawatomie  County  submitted  on  the 
1st  dav  of  June,  and  it  shows  that  whole  county  increased  last  year 
12,000  people.  That  is  one  of  the  oldest  counties,  one  that  was  opened 
up  and  settled  long  before  any  of  the  new  ones. 

It  is  impossible  for  me  or  for  anybody  else  to  described  to  this  com- 
mittee or  to  the  countiy  the  enormous  immigration  that  is  going  into 
Oklahoma.  I  say,  without  fear  of  contradiction,  that  the  next  census 
of  the  United  States  will  show  that  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma  has 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  887 

1,000,000  people.  If  we  receive  our  just  deserts  at  the  hands  of  Con- 
gress, we  will  ))e  the  first  Territory  ever  adniitted  to  the  Union  with 
three  representatives  in  the  lower  House.  1  argued  that  before  the 
committee  in  the  House.  All  this  new  territory  has  been  opened  since 
the  census,  which  was  taken  two  years  ago.  That  is  almost  a  lifetime 
in  the  settlement  of  a  new  country. 

The  Chairman.  You  think  it  is  fair  to  suppose  that  the  increase  by 
immigration  would  swell  the  census  report  i? 

jMr.  Flynn.  In  the  new  country  alone.  Where  there  are  only  13,000 
(juarter  sections  of  land,  170,000  American  citizens  signified  their 
desire  to  settle  there  b}^  registering. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  shown  by  the  register  in  the  Government 
land  office? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  So  that  you  figure  that  it  would  be  fair  and  legiti- 
mate to  say  upon  the  report  of  the  governmental  returns,  first,  that 
the  census  (which  1  do  not  understand  you  to  dispute)  shows  some- 
thing over  500,000  people 

Mr.  Flynn.  No;  400,000  people. 

The  Chairman  (continuing).  And,  second,  that  the  registration  in 
the  land  offices,  which  figures  are  quite  as  much  Government  matter  as 
the  census,  would  show  this  addition.  So  that  you  would  base  that 
estimate,  leaving  out  these  things  that  might  be  questioned,  upon  what 
might  be  shown  by  the  Government  returns  themselves  ? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Not  exactly,  because  that  argument  would  be  met  by 
the  statement  that  although  they  went  and  registered  they  did  not  do 
anything,  and  left  the  countiy. 

The  Chairman.  1  have  had  some  experience  about  these  settlements 
myself 

Mr.  Flynn.  Let  me  suggest  this:  Within  a  year  after  the  Govern- 
ment census — this  has  been  taken  two  3^ears  now — there  was  sufficient 
public  land  taken,  which  was  unoccupied  when  the  census  was  taken, 
to  show  an  increase  in  old  Oklahoma  of  40,000  people.  We  have 
added  to  that  at  least  100,000  in  these  new  lands.  That  does  not, 
however,  prove  any  increase  in  any  of  the  other  23  counties  in  the 
Territory. 

The  Chairman.  Have  3'ou  been  here  upon  these  lands  yourself? 

]Mr.  Flynn.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Are  the  farmers  there  cultivating  the  land? 

Mr.  Flynn.  The  trouble  is  that  we  have  quite  enough  men  down 
there.  They  would  like  to  be  two  or  three  on  the  same  farm.  There 
is  no  question  about  the  effort  that  is  being  made  to  cultivate  these 
lands. 

The  Chairman.  The  farmers  have  built  houses  on  the  new  land,  have 
they  ? 

Mr.  FlynX.  Certainly. 

The  Chairman.  And  they  are  raising  crops? 

Mr.  Flynn.  There  have  been  instances  there  in  which  people  who 
have  been  fortunate  enough  to  get  land  have  been  paid  $2,500  to  move 
off  that  land  so  that  it  might  be  occupied  by  others. 

The  Chairman.  They  have  built  houses  and  are  cultivating  the  soil, 
are  they? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Yes. 

The  Chairilan.  On  the  new  land  taken  up  since  the  census? 


388 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 


Mr.  Flynn.  After  the  last  census. 

1  said  550,000  people.  1  would  be  willing"  to  stake  the  matter  of  the 
admission  of  the  Territory  to  statehood  on  the  statement  that  the  census 
now  would  show  600,000  citizens.     I  am  that  conlident  about  it. 

The  Chairman.  You  do  not  question  the  census? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Not  at  all. 

The  Chairman.  You  admit  the  accuracy  of  that  census? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Yes:  1  thought  that  was  as  accurate  as  any  other  census. 
I  am  not  linding  any  fault  with  the  census. 

To  give  you  an  illustration:  In  Oklahoma  City  the  census  gives  us  a 
population  of  10,037  and  in  Guthrie  a  population  of  10,006.  The  local 
census,  taken  two  years  later,  gives  Guthrie  17.000  and  Oklahoma  C'ity 
20,000,  and  there  is  no  desire  to  pad  the  returns,  because  there  is  noth- 
ing to  be  accomplished  by  it.  The  people  are  absolutely  there.  Not 
only  that,  but  there  are  others  crowding-  in  continually.  It  is  impos- 
sible, Senators — and  this  is  a  statement  you  may  wonder  at — on  the 
Atchison,  Topeka  and  Santa  Fe,  the  Rock  Island  Railroad,  the  'Frisco, 
or  the  Choctaw  Railroad  to  get  a  seat  going  through  the  Territor3^  the 
travel  is  so  enormous. 

The  Chairman.  How  many  miles  of  railroad  have  you  in  j'our  Ter- 
ritory 'i 

Mr,  Flynn.  According  to  the  report  of  the  governor,  made  a  3^ear 
ago,  we  have  about  1,500  miles.  There  are  now  about  600  additional 
miles  under  construction. 

The  Chairman.  About  2,100  miles  altogether,  then? 

Mr.  Flynn.  About  2,100  miles  altogether  of  railroad  will  be  com- 
pleted probably  by  the  1st  of  January. 

The  Chairman.  These  railroads  are  being  built  and  being  completed, 
and  such  bonds  as  may  be  necessary  are  being  issued,  utterly  irrespec- 
tive of  any  considerations  of  statehood? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Oh,  certainly.  You  see,  the  Territory  could  not  vote 
them  any  aid.  The  railroads  in  the  West,  3'ou  know,  got  pretty  badly 
bitten  some  years  ago;  and  when  3^ou  find  any  of  these  old  roads  that 
had  to  go  into  the  hands  of  a  receiver  building 'railroads  now  you  know 
they  are  not  doing  it  for  their  health.  The\"  are  not  building  railroads 
because  they  are  in  love  with  any  particular  community.  The  rail- 
roads now  building  throughout  Oklahoma  are  built  because  there  is 
business  enough  to  support  them. 

Senator  Bard.  The\"  are  branch  roads,  I  suppose,  of  the  large 
systems? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Yes,  sir;  to  a  large  extent;  then  some  of  the  main  trunk 
lines  are  coming  in.  Take  the  M.,  K.  and  T.  Railroad,  for  example. 
Let  me  give  3'ou  the  histoiy  of  these  railroads.  When  Oklahoma  was 
opened  for  settlement,  in  1889,  there  was  onh"  one  railroad  running" 
through  it — the  Atchison,  Topeka,  and  Santa  Fe.  That  road  ran 
through  the  eastern  part.  It  was  followed,  about  six  monthsor  a  vear 
afterwards,  b3^  the  Rock  Island  road,  which  ran  through  the  western 
part,  on  to  Fort  Worth  and  Galveston.  That  was  followed,  later  on, 
by  the  St.  Louis  and  San  Francisco,  coming  across  from  east  to  west. 
That  was  followed  b3^  the  Choctaw,  Oklahoma  and  Gulf,  which  to-day 
has  a  line  from  Texas,  away  down  in  the  Panhandle,  clear  across  Okla- 
homa and  down  to  Memphis  and  Birmingham. 

Now,  the  Missouri,  Kansas  and  Texas,  which  is  one  of  the  main 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  38*.! 

trunk  lines  through  the  Inrliun  Tcrritor}'  from  St.  Louis  down  to  San 
Antonio  and  Galveston  and  along-  there,  has  now  under  construction 
about  500  miles  of  road  in  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma:  and  the  exist- 
ing- lines  there,  such  as  the  Kock  Island  Railroad  and  the  Santa  Fe 
Hailroad,  are  t)uilding  feeders  everywhere. 

I  do  not  exaggerate  when  I  say  that  in  the  palmiest  davs,  when 
the}'  could  issue  bonds  to  secure  the  construction  of  railroads,  they 
did  not  receive  any  more  consideration  than  we  are  receiving  to-day 
without  having  to  give  them  a  dollar  of  bonds. 

Of  course,  the  question  of  town  pride  cuts  a  considerable  figure  in 
giving  aid. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Flynn,  where  does  the  immigration  to  the  Ter- 
ritory of  Oklahoma  chiefly  come  from? 

Mr.  Flynn.  You  can  draw  a  line,  Senator,  dividing  Oklahoma 
north  and  south,  running  the  line  from  east  to  west.  We  will  say  the 
population  is  equally  divided  and  that  there  are  300,000  on  each  side, 
and  of  that  number,  taking  the  northern  half,  275,000  are  from  the 
North  and  about  25,000  from  the  South,  and  in  the  other  half  probably 
200,000  would  be  from  the  Southern  States  and  100,000  from  the 
North. 

The  Chairman.  Are  they  all  from  the  United  States  ? 

Mr.  Flvnn.  Why,  yes;  but  I  thought  you  asked  from  what  sections 
of  the  countrv  the}'  came. 

The  Chairman.  Of  course,  that  is  interesting,  too. 

]Mr.  Flynn.  In  the  southern  half  vou  will  find  200,000  from  the 
South  and  100,000  from  the  North. 

Senator  IIeitfeld.  It  is  on  account  of  the  proximity? 

Mr.  Flynn.  On  account  of  the  proximity  to  Texas  and  Arkansas, 
and  the  nature  of  the  countiy. 

Senator  Heitfeld.  The  nature  of  the  crops? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Yes,  sir. 

Senator  Bard.  They  are  very  largely  Western  men,  are  they? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Yes,  sir;  Western  and  Southern  men.  But,  Senator, 
there  is  not  a  State  in  the  Union  that  has  not  citizens  in  Oklahoma. 
They  come  from  Maine,  from  New  Hampshire,  Iowa,  and  everj-where 
€lse.  Oklahoma,  as  I  said  before,  is  not  like  anything  else  3'ou  have 
ever  had  to  deal  with.  Here  are  people  whose  fathers  and  mothers  now 
live  in  the  States;  their  families  were  all  grown  up,  and  there  was  not 
room  for  them  to  get  farms  at  home,  so  they  went  to  Oklahoma.  It 
is  the  American  boy  who  has  settled  that  Territory.  Why  should  not 
he  be  entitled  to  the  same  rights  and  benefits  as  his  brothers,  who 
proba])ly  live  across  an  imaginary  line  on  an  adjoining  farm — the  right 
of  self-government? 

The  Chairman.  Well,  Mr.  Flynn,  when  you  speak  of  the  right  of 
self-government,  I  do  not  want  to  interrupt  your  argument,  but  I 
think  you  have  absoluteh"  every  right  of  self-government  you  could 
possibly  have  under  an}'  conditions,  except  representation  here  in 
Congress.  We  will  not  have  any  argument  about  it,  of  course;  but 
you  can  establish  your  rate  of  taxation  and  pass  any  law  you  please 

Mr.  Flynn.  Senator,  I  asked  during  your  absence,  if  population 
•entered  into  the  question,  what  was  the  matter  with  Vermont,  New 
Hampshire,  Delaware.  Florida,  Oregon,  Montana,  Wyoming,  and 
those  other  States?     We  have  more  people  than  they  have. 


390  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  all  right.  I  was  simply  taking-  exception  to 
your  proposition  about  self-government,  because  you  have  local  self- 
government  there  in  the  highest  possible  degree. 

Mr,  Flynn.  We  have  local  self-government  as  far  as  Congress  has 
seen  fit  to  give  it  to  any  Territor3^ 

The  Chairman.  But  you  could  not  have  it  more  completely.  It  is 
impossible  to  frame  laws  to  give  5'ou  more  complete  self-government 
than  that. 

Mr.  Fltnn.  Well,  we  could  elect  our  governors  if  we  were  a  State. 

The  Chairman.  You  elect  3'our  governors,  you  elect  your  super- 
visors  

Mr.  Flynn.  We  do  not,  though,  Senator. 

The  Chairman.  I  do  not  mean  to  say  that  you  elect  your  governors, 
but  the}'  are  appointed  from  your  own  people.  You  can  fix  your  taxa- 
tion, you  can  establish  3'our  schools,  you  can  do  absolutely  anything 
Knancialh^  within  the  limits  of  the  Harrison-Foraker  Act,  and  when 
you  exceed  that  very  w  ise  limitation  you  can  apply  to  Congress.  You 
have  at  this  session  secured  an  exception  to  the  limitation  of  that  act. 

Mr.  Flynn.     Yes;  that  is  true. 

The  Chairman.  So  that  you  must  not  say,  nor  can  any  Territory 
truthfully  say,  that  you  are  denied  local  self-government.    You  have  it. 

Mr.  Flynn.  But,  Senator  Beveridge,  let  me  call  your  attention 

The  Chairman.  But  I  do  not  think  your  statehood  proposition  rests 
upon  that  plane.     I  think  it  rests  uj^on  a  broader  ground. 

Mr.  Flynn.  I  would  not  give  a  snap  for  an  American  boy  who 
believed  there  was  a  limit  to  his  possibilities;  and  in  a  Territcny 
there  are. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  a  ver}'  good  argument,  but  it  does  not  go  to 
the  self-government  proposition. 

Mr.  Flynn.  In  a  State  you  conti»l  everything  except  the  United 
States  marshal  and  the  proper  Federal  officers,  that  there  are  in  every 
State.  In  a  Territoiy  we  do  not.  I  am  not  complaining  about  "  carpet- 
bagism "  or  anything  of  that  kind.  Thank  God,  we  have  not  been 
bothered  lately  with  that  in  Oklahoma.  We  have  been  treated  more 
than  kindly  by  the  President  of  the  United  States.  I  am  very  grate- 
ful for  it.  But  I  will  tell  you  want  I  want — I  do  not  conceal  it  at  all. 
I  want  a  chance,  and  the  people  of  Oklahoma  want  a  chance,  to  vote  to 
make  a  man  President  of  the  United  States. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  all  right.  I  am  merely  pointing  out  to  you 
that  the  argument  that  you  want  the  right  of  self-government  is  not 
operative,  because  you  have  self-government. 

Mr.  Flynn.  Not  as  much  as  the  States  have.  Let  me  suggest 
another  thing.  Senator. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  suppose  you  pass  on  to  the  next  argument,, 
because  this  is  of  interest  only  to  me. 

Mr.  Flynn.  I  have  skipped  all  around,  and  I  do  not  know  that  I 
can  say  very  much  more,  except  this:  We  have  the  population,  or  at 
least  we  think  we  have;  we  have  the  area,  because  we  are  the  size  of 
Ohio  or  of  Kentuckv.  or  about  that  size;  we  have  the  wealth.  The 
assessment  returns  show  $60,000,000  last  year  and  ^75,000,000  this 
year — an  increase  of  $15,000,000;  and  bear  with  me  when  I  say  that 
they  only  show  the  taxation  on  4,000,000  acres  of  land. 

Senator  Heitfeld.  The  other  land  not  being  patented  J 


NEW    STATKIIOOD    HILL.  391 

Mr.  Flynn.  The  other  land  not  being  initentocl.  If  there  is  a  dol- 
lar's worth  of  property  in  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma  to-day  there  is 
()\'er  three  hundred  million  dollars'  worth.  Congress  has  been  kind  to 
the  Territory;  we  are  grateful  for  that.  It  opened  up,  and  it  should 
have  opened  up,  the  best  thing  it  had  to  the  Ameriean-born.  As  I 
said,  foreigners  are  practicall}"  unknown  among  us,  and  the  few  we 
have  are  good  citizens. 

We  have  less  illiteracy  than  there  is  in  any  State  in  the  Union.  We 
have  more  newspapers  in  proportion  to  our  population,  two  to  one, 
than  you  have  in  any  State  of  the  Union.  We  have  more  banks  in 
proportion  to  our  population  than  3'ou  have  in  any  other  section  of 
the  Union.  You  can  not  go  into  a  home  in  Oklahoma  where  you  will 
not  find  one  or  two  weekly  newspapers  and  possibly  one  daily  paper 
tjiken.  We  have  increased  in  our  banking  strength;  we  have  increased 
the  number  of  our  public  schools;  we  have  increased  everything  the 
men  of  Oklahoma  have  applied  their  hands  to.  There  is  not  a  poor- 
house  in  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma.  There  is  not  a  penitentiary  in 
the  Territory  of  Oklahoma.  W^e  do  not  need  those  things.  The  peo- 
ple have  been  too  busy  building  churches  and  schoolhouses  to  educate 
and  benefit  the  people,  instead  of  taking  them  and  confining  them  for 
acts  they  might  have  committed. 

W'e  demonstrated  our  ability  to  govern  ourselves  in  1889,  when  we 
had  no  law  under  the  sun  except  that  which  w^e  made  ourselves.  That 
was  my  first  experience  in  running  up  against  genuine  American  man- 
hood that  was  simply  turned  loose,  everybody  carrying  a  W^inchester 
or  six-shooter.  There  were  no  killings.  There  were  no  disorders. 
The  people  adopted  a  code  of  laws  of  their  own,  and  they  executed 
them.  If  a  man  said  they  had  no  right  to  do  so,  they  just  locked  him  up, 
if  he  deserved  it,  and  he  stayed  there  until  he  served  out  the  sentence 
which  the  court  that  we  elected  decided  he  should  serve. 

Now  as  to  our  crops:  There  is  not  a  section  of  America  to-day  that 
will  raise  as  many  diversified  crops  and  such  an  abundance  of  crops  as 
the  people  of  Oklahoma  will  on  the  same  piece  of  land.  The  farmer 
in  Oklahoma  can  till  his  soil  eleven  months  out  of  the  twelve.  He 
does  not  have  to  put  up  feed  for  the  winter.  And  as  to  the  quality  of 
our  crops,  even  when  we  were  in  our  swaddling  clothes,  at  the  World's 
Fair  in  Chicago  Oklahoma  fiour  carried  oft'  the  prize  against  the  com- 
petition of  the  world.  W^e  have  continued  to  do  that  in  Omaha  and 
at  the  other  expositions  that  have  been  held. 

W^e  raise  in  the  Territory  annualW,  when  we  have  a  fair  season, 
30,000,000  bushels  of  wheat.  W^e  raise  from  one  hundred  to  one  hun- 
dred and  fifty  thousand  bales  of  cotton.  We  ship  50,000  carloads  of 
cattle.  The  assessment  return  taxes  us  with  about  800,000  head  of 
cattle.  The  secretary  of  the  live  stock  board  says  we  have  about 
2,000,000  head  there.  Of  course  that  is  a  pretty  good  return  for  the 
assessment.  You  can  not  take  the  assessment  for  anything  in  any 
community  I  know  of,  but  you  have  to  have  enough  to  pa}^  your  run- 
ning expenses. 

Let  me  call  your  attention  to  one  thing  about  Avhich  Congress  has 
been  kinder  to  Oklahoma  than  to  any  other  Territory.  1  suppose  it 
is  because  Oklahoma  has  been  the  pet  of  Congress;  and  it  is  right  that 
it  should  be.  Oklahoma  is  the  native  born.  Oklahoma  is  the  child  of 
the  Union.     In  the  Territory  of  Oklahoma,  side  b}'  side,  you  will  find 


892  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

the  ex-Confederate  and  the  ex-Union  soldier,  both  hurrahing  for  the 
same  flag-.  You  will  tind  them  both  sending  their  children  to  the  same 
schoolhouse.  You  found  their  sons  both  going  and  enlisting  during 
the  Spanish  war  to  join  the  President  or  to  go  to  the  Philippines. 
There  is  no  longer  an}^  division  of  sentiment.  You  will  find  2,500 
public  schoolhouses  located  throughout  the  various  neighborhoods  of 
the  Territory,  and  but  very  few  of  them  were  erected  by  the  incur- 
rence of  anv  bonded  indebtedness. 

There  is  virtually  no  debt  in  the  Territory.  There  is  but  $466,000 
of  warrant  and  bonded  indebtedness,  $48,000  of  it  only  for  bonds 
issued  in  1890,  when  the  Territory  had  no  taxable  property;  and  the 
cash  in  the  treasury  amounts  to  1300,000. 

Congress  gave  lis  our  school  and  other  lands.  Senators,  I  do  not 
know  whether  you  are  familiar  with  it  or  not,  but  in  fairness  to  myself 
I  ought  to  call  your  attention  to  this  fact: 

The  public  land  given  to  Oklahoma  was  different  from  what  it  was 
in  the  case  of  any  other  State.  Heretofore,  when  a  State  was  admit- 
ted into  the  Union,  Congress  in  the  enabling  act  gave  it  so  much  land; 
and  it  could  secure  that  land,  because  it  was  vacant,  within  the  con- 
fines of  the  State.  But  it  was  found  that  Oklahoma  settled  in  an  hour. 
In  every  reservation  that  was  opened  every  piece  was  immediately 
taken.  So  we  came  here  to  Congress  and  asked  them  to  make  our 
reservations  as  Indian  lands  were  opened;  otherwise  there  would  not 
have  been  any  land  left  for  the  future  State. 

So  in  addition  to  sections  16  and  36,  Congress  kindly  reserved  in 
some  later  reservations  sections  13  and  33  in  each  township.  So  that 
in  certain  reservations  which  were  opened  we  have  four  sections 
instead  of  two  sections  reserved. 

Now,  a  year  ago  we  still  had  within  the  entire  confines  of  the  Terri- 
tory 4,000,000  acres  of  public  land.  That  land  is  within  the  area  of 
what  was  formerlv  know  as  No  Man's  Land,  in  Beaver  County— a 
county  37  miles  wide  and  167  miles  long.  That  is  virtually  the  only 
vacant  land  we  have  in  the  Territorv. 

In  addition  to  taking  these  lands  that  Congress  reserved  for  us,  and 
which  are  confirmed  in  this  bill  to  the  State,  this  bill  provides  for  a 
grant  of  a  million  and  a  half  acres  of  the  remaining  lands  for  various 
other  purposes.  I  do  not  suppose  the  land  that  is  left  is  worth  much 
for  agriculture,  and  where  it  goes  to  public  schools  and  educational 
institutions  I  do  not  think  there  will  be  any  objection  to  our  having 
it.  There  was  none  in  the  House,  and  I  hope  there  will  not  be  any  in 
the  Senate. 

We  have  in  the  Territory  26  counties;  but  it  is  unfair  to  "class  them 
with  the  average  counties  that  vou  have  in  the  ordinary  State.  I  have 
just  cited  one  of  them,  which  is  37  by  167  miles.  We  have  other  coun- 
ties that  are  56  miles  square,  and  so  on. 

There  is  virtuallv  no  more  vacant  land.  The  farmers  will  have  to 
begin  to  divide  up  after  they  prove  up.  The  entire  assessment 
returns  on  the  public  lands  of  the  Territory  were  only  $13,000,000. 
Congress  itself  made  a  donation  to  us  of  about  seventeen  million  when 
it  passed  the  free-home  bill.     We  owed  the  Government  that  amount. 

Senator  Bard.  What  will  be  the  effect  of  the  accession  of  lands  m 
the  Indian  Teri-itory  hereafter  d  That  will  carry  with  it  the  same  pro- 
vision, will  it  notd 


NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL.  303 

Mr.  Flynn.  What  is  that,  Senator?  You  can  not  get  an}^  public 
land  in  the  Indian  Territory;  there  is  not  an3^ 

The  CiiAiKMAN.  It  was  "all  divided  up,  was  it  not,  by  the  Dawes 
Commission^ 

Mr.  Flynn.  Ordinarily,  Senator,  they  buy  land,  allot  an  Indian  so 
uuu'h,  pay  him  so  much  for  the  Ijalance  of  it,  and  oi)on  it,  and  it 
becomes  public  land.  You  can  not  do  that  in  the  Indian  Territory, 
because  e\'ery  part  of  the  land  there  is  divided  pro  rata  among  the 
Indians. 

Senator  Bard.  I  did  not  know  that  all  of  it,  the  whole  of  it,  was. 
Mr.  Flynn.  Let  me  call  your  attention  to  why  I  think  that  was 
done.     I  think  it  is  "beating  the  devil  around  the  bush"  in  order  to 
beat  a  land-grant  railroad. 

Congress  provided  when  it  granted  the  charter  of  the  Missouri, 
Kansas  and  Texas  Railroad,  and  I  think  that  of  the  Atlantic  and 
Pacific,  that  whenever  the  Indian  Territory  became  public  land  the 
railroads  should  have  every  alternate  section  for,  1  think,  20  miles  on 
each  side  of  their  tracks. 

If  au}^  public  land  ever  came  into  existence  in  the  Indian  Territory, 
and  the  Government  owned  it,  it  would  therefore  go  to  the  land-grant 
railroads;  and  I  think  that  is  why  there  has  never  been  an  effort  made 
to  buy  any  land  from  the  Indians  there,  because  it  would  inure  to  the 
beneiit  of  the  railroads  instead  of  going  to  the  homestead  settlers. 

There  can  be  no  lands  taxed  in  the  Indian  Territory  until  Congress 
removes  these  restrictions,  after  the  lands  are  allotted  to  the  Indians. 
The  only  taxable  property  outside  of  personal  property  will  be  the 
town  lots  in  the  cities. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  mean  to  say,  Mr.  Flynn,  that  if  the  Indian 
Territory  should  at  any  future  time  be  incorporated  as  a  part  of  Okla- 
homa alf  the  lands  there  would  be  gone,  and  that  Congress  could  not 
make  a  reservation  for  school  and  other  purposes  of  any  lands  in  the 
Indian  Territory  ? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Is  that  true  because  it  belonged  to  the  Indians  and 
has  been  divided  up  among  them  under  the  Commission^ 

Mr.  Flynn.  Well,  it  is  not  actually  divided,  but  it  is  provided  th^t 
it  shall  be  divided. 

The  Chairman.  Yes;  that  is  already  provided  for. 

Mr.  Flynn.  Yes.  Now,  in  that  connection,  with  reference  to  Okhi- 
homa 

The  Chairman.  What  provision  did  the  bill  make  for  that—any^ 

Mr.  Flynn.  No.     1  am  not  looking  after  that  Territory  at  this  timej. 

The  Chairman.  No;  I  understand  that. 

Senator  Bard.  There  is  a  provision 

Senator  Heitfeld.   But  if  Congress  sees  fit  to  annex  them? 

Mr.  Flynn.  To  annex  them — oh,  yes;  then  thej^  become  part  of  us. 

The  Chairman.  You  simply  leave  that  open  ? 

Mr.  Flynn.  I  leave  that  open,  in  other  words.  My  idea  was  to  tie 
the  hands  of  the  State  of  Oklahoma  so  that  Congress  will  be  free  to  do 
with  us  on  that  question  as  it  sees  fit. 

The  Chairman.  To  leave  the  future  free,  in  other  words? 

Mr.  Flynn.  To  leave  the  future  free.  But  we  are  bound;  we  *ro 
not  free. 


394  NEW    STATEHOOD    BILL. 

The  Chairman.  You  are  not  free? 

Senator  Bard.  That  is  just  the  point. 

Mr,  Flynn.  1  am  going  to  be  very  frank  with  you.  I  have  no  desire 
to  establish  a  small  State,  but  my  contention  for  statehood  for  Okla- 
homa at  this  time  is  that  we  are  entitled  to  it.  We  have  the  popula- 
tion, we  have  the  wealth,  and  we  should  be  admitted.  The  Indiar 
Territor}^  should  have,  for  the  present,  some  other  kind  of  govern 
mcnt.  Its  people  are  not  fit  for  statehood  now.  Give  them  some 
kind  of  a  Territorial  government,  or  whatever  you  wish  to  call  it,  unti 
they  grow  up  and  become  accustomed  to  our  laws  and  to  our  form  oJ 
government,  and  then  add  them  to  the  State  of  Oklahoma  if  you  desire, 
but  provide  lands  or  money  to  make  their  assets  equal  to  the  public 
lands  in  Oklahoma, 

Senator  Bard.  Then  the  State  is  bound  by  this  section  18? 

Mr.  Flynn.  The  State  is  bound  by  it.  I  think  it  ought  to  be. 
There  has  been  some  objection  to  that  section  on  the  part  of  some  oi 
my  very  good  friends  who  insist  that  there  should  be  two  States  dowi 
there:  but  I  am  not  worried  on  that  proposition. 

Senator  Heitfeld.  This  does  not  preclude  making  another  State? 

Mr.  Flynn.  Certainly  it  does  not.  I  would  prefer  a  big  State;  bui 
I  want  everything  on  an  equality  when  it  is  made  one  State. 

The  Chairman.  Have  you  anything  further,  Mr.  Flynn  ^  If  not 
we  will  excuse  you. 

Mr.  Flynn.  I  have  not;  and  I  am  very  much  obliged  to  you 
Senators. 

The  Chairman,  The  committee  is  very  pleased  to  have  heard  you 

The  committee  thereupon  adjourned. 

o 


R5 


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